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(NPR)   Was manufacturing evidence to win his client the trial wrong? Should he not have done that?   (npr.org) divider line 49
    More: Asinine, false testimony, reasonable doubt, Assistant Attorney General, unanimous decision, defense lawyers  
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12613 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Aug 2012 at 4:19 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-17 01:25:59 PM
Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer said the Justice Department pursued the unusual case because Daum crossed the line. "You do not get to manufacture evidence," Breuer said. "You do not get to suborn perjury. You do not get to have people purposefully lie and mislead.

Well, unless you're a bank and you want to foreclose a whole bunch of houses without bothering to keep any records about them.
 
2012-08-17 01:35:16 PM
Weeeird.

FTA: Take this call, from September 2008. While White is on the line, from inside jail, his longtime girlfriend, Candice Robertson, calls the lawyer's office and gets his secretary.

"Mr. Daum there?" Robertson asks.

The secretary replies that she is still waiting for Daum to come in.

"OK, tell him I'm going to come this morning because I went to New York to get the stuff that he want me to get," Robertson says.

The secretary repeats the message, as she jots it down: "You went to New York to get what he wanted you to get."

"Yes," Robertson confirms. "Tell him I got a 4-3."

That stuff the defense lawyer wanted her to get was a pair of men's Gucci boots, size 43 - a decoy - one size smaller than a pair the police photographed in White's home. The size 43 boots wouldn't fit on White's size 45 feet.

Justice Department prosecutors say the fancy boots were just one part of an elaborate scheme to point the finger away from White. The prosecutors in the narcotic and dangerous-drug unit accused Daum and a mother-daughter pair of private investigators of directing White's friends and relatives to reconstruct items police had found in the family's apartment, including a razor, a digital scale, and chopped-up white bar soap they pretended was crack cocaine.


So, "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit?"
 
2012-08-17 01:45:31 PM
Mmmmm... I remember law school. By any means necessary, I think they taught us. And the Federal Rules of Evidence... I seem to recall manufactured evidence being admissible. I'd allow it.
 
2012-08-17 01:50:44 PM
Meh. While obviously he shouldn't have done that, the prosecutors put people they know are liars on the stand all the time, and never get called out for it. They also fabricate evidence, hide things from the defense, and send innocent people to jail, and unlike this guy, never face criminal charges. The worst that happens if they get caught is a lawsuit against the place they work.
 
2012-08-17 01:53:47 PM
"You do not get to have people purposefully lie and mislead"

This is true. Only people who have passed the bar can lie and mislead. You can't have someone else do it for you.
 
2012-08-17 03:17:11 PM
A shady lawyer? When did this start happening?
 
2012-08-17 03:20:30 PM
Prosecutors do this all the time, so why the hell not?
 
2012-08-17 04:22:52 PM
Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer said the Justice Department pursued the unusual case because Daum crossed the line. "You do not get to manufacture evidence," Breuer said. "You do not get to suborn perjury. You do not get to have people purposefully lie and mislead.

By "you" he means the defense side. It's totally okay when the prosecution does it.
 
2012-08-17 04:23:21 PM
I want this guy for a lawyer. If he doesn't get caught, I win. If he does get caught, mistrial or at least a delay in the proceedings.
 
2012-08-17 04:26:40 PM
Better then manufacturing evidence to go to war, right Mr. Powel
 
2012-08-17 04:28:47 PM
bulletproof
 
2012-08-17 04:30:55 PM
www.thehollywoodnews.com
 
2012-08-17 04:31:14 PM
walterhiggins.net

"Amateur."
 
2012-08-17 04:32:15 PM
Sometimes you don't want a criminal lawyer, you want a criminal lawyer.
 
2012-08-17 04:32:24 PM
The defense attorneys quoted are Damn and Grimm?
 
2012-08-17 04:36:59 PM
The size 43 boots wouldn't fit on White's size 45 feet.

My foot size is 10 1/2 and I would consider that average. Is this guy a clown or something?
 
2012-08-17 04:39:30 PM

Rincewind53: Meh. While obviously he shouldn't have done that, the prosecutors put people they know are liars on the stand all the time, and never get called out for it. They also fabricate evidence, hide things from the defense, and send innocent people to jail, and unlike this guy, never face criminal charges. The worst that happens if they get caught is a lawsuit against the place they work.


Don't forget "order years of potentially exculpatory evidence to be destroyed when it looks like a few of your convictions might be overturned."
 
2012-08-17 04:51:14 PM
SO is he a criminal lawyer or a criminal lawyer?
 
2012-08-17 04:51:56 PM

Gilligann: The size 43 boots wouldn't fit on White's size 45 feet.

My foot size is 10 1/2 and I would consider that average. Is this guy a clown or something?


Same as the Royale wi Cheese
 
2012-08-17 04:55:55 PM

Gilligann: The size 43 boots wouldn't fit on White's size 45 feet.

My foot size is 10 1/2 and I would consider that average. Is this guy a clown or something?


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-08-17 04:57:18 PM
http://walterolson.com/articles/crashtests.html

it's an old habit.
 
2012-08-17 04:58:51 PM

Gilligann: The size 43 boots wouldn't fit on White's size 45 feet.

My foot size is 10 1/2 and I would consider that average. Is this guy a clown or something?


NPR missed the news that the US was canceling its conversion to metric back in the 70's, apparently. Even then, it's still EU measure and not actual centimeters. Maybe the reporter is from France?

/45 EU is a size 10M US.
 
2012-08-17 05:01:40 PM
Yeah, should have been a cop or a district attorney, then it would have been entirely legal.
 
2012-08-17 05:10:25 PM
For the past two or three decades prosecutors have been buying manufactured evidence from "forensics" labs.

When the hell is our system of justice going to get some justice in it?
 
2012-08-17 05:11:24 PM
How much more secure and comfortable we would all be if recreationals were treated like the public health issue they are, rather than a matter of law.
 
2012-08-17 05:15:03 PM
so was White part of a sting to get the lawyer, or did he turn his lawyer in after the lawyer lost his case?

Also, Isn't illegal to use recordings of a lawyer and client, even if the client uses a jailhouse phone?

Attorney/client privilege and all that.

//maybe I've seen too many cop shows.
 
2012-08-17 05:17:35 PM
deadhomersociety.files.wordpress.com

Pipe down in there, Hutz!
 
2012-08-17 05:19:34 PM

signaljammer: How much more secure and comfortable we would all be if recreationals were treated like the public health issue they are, rather than a matter of law.


Not very. You can see just as much tyranny when the government turns itself loose combating "public health issues".

Treat it as a personal liberty issue instead.
 
2012-08-17 05:31:27 PM

drachen: Also, Isn't illegal to use recordings of a lawyer and client, even if the client uses a jailhouse phone?

Attorney/client privilege and all that.


IANAL, but attorney/client privilege is intended to protect the client, not the attorney. I believe the client can waive it.

It may even be that the client doesn't have to waive it for the calls to be used against the attorney -- evidence that is inadmissible in one situation can be admissible in another, or even if you admit it supposedly for a different purpose (e.g. hearsay is usually inadmissible to prove the truth of what the hearsay is about, but it is admissible if you're trying to use it to prove what the speaker thought).
 
2012-08-17 05:32:59 PM
Yellow cake? WMD's? What's this about manufacturing evidence?
 
2012-08-17 05:36:52 PM
You know what they say about men with size 45 feet.
 
2012-08-17 05:40:35 PM
Your honor, he didn't mean it...
 
2012-08-17 05:50:23 PM

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: Mmmmm... I remember law school. By any means necessary, I think they taught us. And the Federal Rules of Evidence... I seem to recall manufactured evidence being admissible. I'd allow it.


Care to cite your source, counselor?

You can have "created" evidence, like computer simulations; what you can't have is FABRICATED evidence, which is what they've got here.
 
2012-08-17 05:51:24 PM

drachen: Also, Isn't illegal to use recordings of a lawyer and client, even if the client uses a jailhouse phone?

Attorney/client privilege and all that.


(Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer; this is not legal advice. Not to be taken internally. May cause drowsiness; alcohol may intensify this effect.)

First, the client can waive the attorney-client privilege; and in a situation like this, the client might very well want to bargain.

Second, there's the crime-fraud exception. Normally, yes, attorney-client communications are privileged. If you're talking to an attorney, even if it's about how to avoid detection/escape responsibility for a past crime, then that's privileged. But if you're talking about how best to commit a current or future crime, then that's not privileged. And suborning perjury and intentionally manufacturing false evidence are crimes.
 
2012-08-17 05:56:01 PM
i898.photobucket.com
A DC lawyer that lies, what a shock. Remember obama saying something about transparency?
 
2012-08-17 06:07:01 PM

Launch Code: [i898.photobucket.com image 300x316]
A DC lawyer that lies, what a shock. Remember obama saying something about transparency?


People aren't saying it, but he's not protecting "himself" from anything, he's protecting the DOJ and the executive branch.

If you want to change this, Eric Holder should not be the focus: THE TWO MAJOR POLITICAL PARTIES should be the focus.
 
2012-08-17 06:08:55 PM

KickahaOta: drachen: Also, Isn't illegal to use recordings of a lawyer and client, even if the client uses a jailhouse phone?

Attorney/client privilege and all that.

(Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer; this is not legal advice. Not to be taken internally. May cause drowsiness; alcohol may intensify this effect.)

First, the client can waive the attorney-client privilege; and in a situation like this, the client might very well want to bargain.

Second, there's the crime-fraud exception. Normally, yes, attorney-client communications are privileged. If you're talking to an attorney, even if it's about how to avoid detection/escape responsibility for a past crime, then that's privileged. But if you're talking about how best to commit a current or future crime, then that's not privileged. And suborning perjury and intentionally manufacturing false evidence are crimes.


Also, privilege only attaches where there is reasonable expectation of privacy, that the conversation cannot be overheard by a third party. Jail phones are recorded, hence, there can never be an expectation of privacy. Which is why no sane attorney would ever discuss ANYTHING on a phone with an incarcerated client; they go down to the jail and talk in person.
 
2012-08-17 06:19:59 PM
Gee I dunno, it sounds to me as if the guy was just emulating Obama's campaign strategy.
 
2012-08-17 06:40:43 PM

cgraves67: I want this guy for a lawyer. If he doesn't get caught, I win. If he does get caught, mistrial or at least a delay in the proceedings.


Did I read the article wrong? They just said the reason he was convicted was because the defendant was too stupid to do this on his own? And I see no motive for him to do this either, he doesn't make more pay and if he's caught then he losses everything. Something isn't right.
 
2012-08-17 06:45:52 PM

puffy999: Launch Code: [i898.photobucket.com image 300x316]
A DC lawyer that lies, what a shock. Remember obama saying something about transparency?

People aren't saying it, but he's not protecting "himself" from anything, he's protecting the DOJ and the executive branch.

If you want to change this, Eric Holder should not be the focus: THE TWO MAJOR POLITICAL PARTIES should be the focus.


He promised transparency, made it a focal point. He lied and he's hiding information from Americans.
 
2012-08-17 06:48:09 PM
The size 43 boots wouldn't fit on White's size 45 feet.

encrypted-tbn3.google.com

Man in question?
 
2012-08-17 07:21:49 PM
Both the DA and the Defense "massage" the truth in criminal trials. This guy just went outside the acceptable bounds of how much lie one is allowed to tell.

The WTF part to me is that he did it for a mere $6,000 retainer. If you're going to run that close to the edge, at least do it for a reasonable amount of money. After all, you're putting your livelihood on the line here.
 
2012-08-17 08:04:53 PM

corn-bread: Both the DA and the Defense "massage" the truth in criminal trials. This guy just went outside the acceptable bounds of how much lie one is allowed to tell.


I can't recall a case where the DA ever got prosecuted for it.
 
2012-08-17 08:16:47 PM
What on earth is size 45 foot?
 
2012-08-17 08:45:58 PM

gameshowhost: What on earth is size 45 foot?


A big one.
 
2012-08-17 09:08:09 PM
Prosecuters are the biggest manufacturer of facts in the system
 
2012-08-17 09:51:18 PM

gameshowhost: What on earth is size 45 foot?


Gyrfalcon: gameshowhost: What on earth is size 45 foot?

A big one.


Actually roughly averaged sized foot for a guy to a roughly larger than normal sized foot for a guy.

/I've got a 49+
//hell finding shoes, lemme tell ya.
 
2012-08-18 09:24:50 AM

Gyrfalcon: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: Mmmmm... I remember law school. By any means necessary, I think they taught us. And the Federal Rules of Evidence... I seem to recall manufactured evidence being admissible. I'd allow it.

Care to cite your source, counselor?

You can have "created" evidence, like computer simulations; what you can't have is FABRICATED evidence, which is what they've got here.


Wow. This is fark.com.... I was being sarcastic. That goes on here sometimes.
 
2012-08-19 02:07:45 AM
mitglied.multimania.de

Amused...
 
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