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(Journal Times)   Child molester free from jail indefinitely due to: (a) mistrial. (b) overcrowded jail. (c) medical treatment that he never bothered to take care of until suddenly locked up   (journaltimes.com) divider line 75
    More: Asinine, Racine County, Northwestern Memorial Hospital, trials, therapies, jail  
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13076 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Aug 2012 at 2:12 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-17 12:54:34 PM
Er, not quite:

But Gasiorkiewicz said additional terms include being required to live with his mother, Otilia Anderson, in Amery, Wis.; being placed on global positioning system monitoring; and having no contact with the victims or any underage children. Gasiorkiewicz also banned him from being in Racine, Kenosha, Milwaukee and Walworth counties except while en route to the Chicago area for medical appointments.

...

Defense attorney Mark Nielsen said the masses - which Gutierrez has had for a while - were found to be growing more than expected after he received a CT scan in December because another inmate assaulted him. 

...

His next hearing is Oct. 25.

If convicted on all 14 counts, Gutierrez could face a maximum of 290 years behind bars.
 
2012-08-17 01:23:31 PM
Submitter is a moron.

media.tumblr.com
 
2012-08-17 01:40:35 PM
The dude hasn't been put on trial yet, moronmitter. The judge just temporarily waived the cash bond.
 
2012-08-17 02:03:36 PM
I wonder who's paying for this treatment.
 
2012-08-17 02:15:07 PM
In his defense, he allegedly had a lot going on at the time.
 
2012-08-17 02:17:30 PM
Alleged child molester
 
2012-08-17 02:18:27 PM
Yes, but how will his football team do?
 
2012-08-17 02:18:36 PM
membres.multimania.fr

I found the perfect brain surgeon for him. He takes all insurance plans as well.
 
2012-08-17 02:19:08 PM
...or (d) "I only skimmed the article and used a tired schtick to get a greenlight"
 
2012-08-17 02:21:25 PM
Protip: To be free from a place, you must first be stuck in that place.
 
2012-08-17 02:23:10 PM
He was born with these desires. He has a disease. He needs treatment, not incarceration
 
2012-08-17 02:27:49 PM
The brain tumors could have caused him to molest kids. It's been known to happen. Whether or not he should still be considered guilty if that's true is another story.
 
2012-08-17 02:32:35 PM

doubled99: He was born with these desires. He has a disease. He needs treatment, not incarceration


2/10
 
2012-08-17 02:33:24 PM
..until suddenly locked up


Sounds painful.
 
2012-08-17 02:33:38 PM
doubled99: He was born with these desires. He has a disease. He needs treatment, not incarceration

Dr. Q Alias: The brain tumors could have caused him to molest kids. It's been known to happen. Whether or not he should still be considered guilty if that's true is another story.

Yeah, he has a disease.

The problem is that you cannot cure a pedophile of his orientation. They either A) Never develop an adult sexual orientation and become fixated on children, or B) Develop the pedophilia separate of their adult sexual orientation, meaning they can carry on an adult relationship with another adult, while still preying on children. (See Jerry Sandusky)

So, in this case, the ethical debate becomes more of is it ethical or moral to involuntarily commit a pedophile who has offended to a facility for the rest of his or her life, or until there is a proven treatment available which can change his Pedophilic sexual orientation.
 
2012-08-17 02:36:00 PM
I wonder how good his jam is.
 
2012-08-17 02:38:43 PM

Gunderson: [membres.multimania.fr image 259x348]

I found the perfect brain surgeon for him. He takes all insurance plans as well.


Accusation of child molesting is the new accusation of witchcraft. Guilty until proven...no, still guilty. Burn the witch!

/yeah, yeah you were just making a funny
//no, I haven't been accused falsely or otherwise
///there's no enough information provided in the article to know if the man is guilty or not, yet many people reading this thread are already ready with the rope
 
2012-08-17 02:40:27 PM
At least he's getting his ass kicked in jail...
 
2012-08-17 02:40:54 PM

Dr. Q Alias: The brain tumors could have caused him to molest kids. It's been known to happen. Whether or not he should still be considered guilty if that's true is another story.


If the tumours are causing it, he can't be convicted (fairly). Diminished capacity and all that. If there's even a chance that this is true, no sane DA would try him until the diseases are cured and he's had a second psych eval.
 
2012-08-17 02:42:58 PM

BronyMedic: So, in this case, the ethical debate becomes more of is it ethical or moral to involuntarily commit a pedophile who has offended to a facility for the rest of his or her life, or until there is a proven treatment available which can change his Pedophilic sexual orientation.


There has to be some middle ground between involuntary lockup for life and changing his sexual orientation outright. I don't doubt that it must be a horrid existence to be attracted to children, but there's a difference between being attracted to children and molesting children. The majority of people on the planet, straight, gay, dabbling, whatever, manage to not periodically rape the object of their attractions.

Yes, it's a tragedy that nature rolled the dice and determined they were going to be a pedophile through no fault of their own, but they need to suck it up and do the right thing instead. I managed to get through today without raping or molesting anyone, so can they.
 
2012-08-17 02:43:21 PM
Flakeloaf: If there's even a chance that this is true, no sane DA would try him until the diseases are cured and he's had a second psych eval.

Oh yes they would.

Child molestation cases are re-election gold.
 
2012-08-17 02:43:45 PM

doubled99: He was born with these desires. He has a disease. He needs treatment, not incarceration


I agree with all that, up until he actually commits a crime. Then he's boned. I don't envy a pedophile's responsibility to abstain from abusing children. But it's his responsibility nonetheless, even if it means choosing chemical castration. Good point on treatment, though.
 
2012-08-17 02:44:40 PM
Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Yes, it's a tragedy that nature rolled the dice and determined they were going to be a pedophile through no fault of their own, but they need to suck it up and do the right thing instead. I managed to get through today without raping or molesting anyone, so can they.

Uh, did I read this right? Are you trying to tell us something?

At any rate, a pedophile doesn't think he's doing anything wrong, per say. They honestly believe that they are loving a child the way they want to be loved.
 
2012-08-17 02:46:34 PM

BronyMedic: The problem is that you cannot cure a pedophile of his orientation. They either A) Never develop an adult sexual orientation and become fixated on children, or B) Develop the pedophilia separate of their adult sexual orientation, meaning they can carry on an adult relationship with another adult, while still preying on children. (See Jerry Sandusky)


Yes, in most cases, but I'm referring to this: Link

6th or so paragraph: A guy reportedly developed pedophilia, had a tumor removed, no more pedophilia.
 
2012-08-17 02:47:53 PM

BronyMedic: At any rate, a pedophile doesn't think he's doing anything wrong, per say. They honestly believe that they are loving a child the way they want to be loved.


Bullshiat generalization. That's only true if he's a psychopath. We don't know how many pedophiles are out there that never commit crimes and always stay under the radar, for fear that their mental health doc will report them (which is sometimes mandated).
 
2012-08-17 02:48:07 PM
Nothing asinine about it, subby. It sounds like the court is taking reasonable precautions to allow the man to seek medical treatment. The man is only accused of molestation. He has not been convicted. His bond is only being modified. He was only still in jail because he could not come up wit the cash bond. Had he been able to do so, he could have posted it at the court while at the bond hearing and walked out then. The judge obviously doesn't consider the man a flight risk, but is requiring GPS monitoring just to be safe.
 
2012-08-17 02:51:43 PM

doubled99: He was born with these desires. He has a disease. He needs treatment, not incarceration


Having the desires isn't a crime, raping children is a crime. I desire a million dollars in cash, and that's legal, but it's still not legal for me to mug Mitt Romney to get his pocket change.
 
2012-08-17 02:53:57 PM

BronyMedic: Uh, did I read this right? Are you trying to tell us something?

At any rate, a pedophile doesn't think he's doing anything wrong, per say. They honestly believe that they are loving a child the way they want to be loved.


It's just that the "he can't help himself" defense falls apart when applied to anything other than children. I see an attractive woman on the street and think, "I would like to have sex with that woman," but somehow I manage to separate the thought from actually running over there and molesting her. A pedophile would see an attractive (I guess) child on the street and think, "I would like to have sex with that child," then actually do it. People everyday restrain their sexual urges. Pedophiles should be even more diligent about it.

As for your second point, ignorance of the law isn't a defense. I can't even fathom how someone could grow to adulthood without having picked up - even just a hunch - on the fact that society frowns on children being raped.
 
2012-08-17 02:53:59 PM

Dr. Q Alias: The brain tumors could have caused him to molest kids. It's been known to happen.


i45.tinypic.com
 
2012-08-17 02:54:48 PM

doubled99: He was born with these desires. He has a disease. He needs treatment, not incarceration


Pedophilia is an illness, farking kids is a crime.
 
2012-08-17 02:55:01 PM

doubled99: He was born with these desires. He has a disease. He needs treatment, not incarceration


Do you write for The Onion?
 
2012-08-17 02:55:23 PM
I think the real question is:

Why has this man who has not been proven to have committed a crime been locked up for fourteen months?

That doesn't sound very fair or speedy to me.
 
2012-08-17 02:56:13 PM
I see subby has been properly scolded.

To reiterate:

He has been in pre-trial custody, without any conviction. The purpose of pre-trial custody is simply to ensure that the accused is present for trial (and, more importantly, present at the time of a potential guilty verdict) and, secondarily to protect the public from an allegedly dangerous person (sort of an extreme order of protection).

Tracking anklets and other technological advances provide more just (and much less costly) assurances of presence than jailing a legally innocent person. Recovering from brain surgery also significantly reduces the ability and thus likelihood of him fleeing.

State courts - such as the one at issue here - traditionally impose pre-trial custody much more regularly than federal courts in which prosecutors have to make a case for it.

On a practical matter though: Won't he need MRI scans at Northwestern? That may present some problems for the tracking anklet. Hopefully, he, his attorney, the prosecutors, and the sheriff's office have addressed those.
 
2012-08-17 02:59:53 PM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: BronyMedic: Uh, did I read this right? Are you trying to tell us something?

At any rate, a pedophile doesn't think he's doing anything wrong, per say. They honestly believe that they are loving a child the way they want to be loved.

It's just that the "he can't help himself" defense falls apart when applied to anything other than children. I see an attractive woman on the street and think, "I would like to have sex with that woman," but somehow I manage to separate the thought from actually running over there and molesting her. A pedophile would see an attractive (I guess) child on the street and think, "I would like to have sex with that child," then actually do it. People everyday restrain their sexual urges. Pedophiles should be even more diligent about it.

As for your second point, ignorance of the law isn't a defense. I can't even fathom how someone could grow to adulthood without having picked up - even just a hunch - on the fact that society frowns on children being raped.


Pedophilia just means the attraction is there, not that the crime has been committed. "Pedophile" doesn't automatically mean "sex offender" any more than "heterosexual" does. Swap in "child molester" and you are correct.
 
2012-08-17 03:09:52 PM

Jim_Callahan: I desire a million dollars in cash, and that's legal, but it's still not legal for me to mug Mitt Romney to get his pocket change.


well it should be
 
2012-08-17 03:10:37 PM

Gunderson: [membres.multimania.fr image 259x348]

I found the perfect brain surgeon for him. He takes all insurance plans as well.


Leela: Is this some sort of brain scanner?

Farnsworth: Some sort, yes. In France it's called a guillotine.

Leela: Professor! Can't you examine my brain without removing it?

Farnsworth: Yes, easily.
 
2012-08-17 03:22:32 PM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: but there's a difference between being attracted to children and molesting children. The majority of people on the planet, straight, gay, dabbling, whatever, manage to not periodically rape the object of their attractions.



Pretty much.  There are plenty of straight males that have zero social skills to be able to get laid.  And have no money to hire a prostitute.  They may suffer from depression and are probably pretty lonely.   But I don't think there's any correlation between that and rape.  Or even desire to rape.
 
2012-08-17 03:30:39 PM

downstairs: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: but there's a difference between being attracted to children and molesting children. The majority of people on the planet, straight, gay, dabbling, whatever, manage to not periodically rape the object of their attractions.

Pretty much.  There are plenty of straight males that have zero social skills to be able to get laid.  And have no money to hire a prostitute.  They may suffer from depression and are probably pretty lonely.   But I don't think there's any correlation between that and rape.  Or even desire to rape.


I'd be curious to see stats comparing sexual offense rates between lonely hetersexuals and pedophiles. There's one huge statistical problem you can't control for however: access to free, legal porn.
 
2012-08-17 03:33:44 PM

downstairs: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: but there's a difference between being attracted to children and molesting children. The majority of people on the planet, straight, gay, dabbling, whatever, manage to not periodically rape the object of their attractions.


Pretty much.  There are plenty of straight males that have zero social skills to be able to get laid.  And have no money to hire a prostitute.  They may suffer from depression and are probably pretty lonely.   But I don't think there's any correlation between that and rape.  Or even desire to rape.


Rape is about control, not sexual satisfaction.
 
2012-08-17 03:34:00 PM

doubled99: He was born with these desires. He has a disease. He needs treatment, not incarceration


He can get treatment while he's serving his prison sentence. I'll just bet when he's eligible for release in 290 years, he'll be completely cured.
 
2012-08-17 03:39:54 PM

BarkingUnicorn: I wonder who's paying for this treatment.


My first thought was the NHS. My second thought was I'm sure farking glad I don't live there.
 
2012-08-17 03:41:38 PM

MAYORBOB: doubled99: He was born with these desires. He has a disease. He needs treatment, not incarceration

He can get treatment while he's serving his prison sentence. I'll just bet when he's eligible for release in 290 years, he'll be completely cured.


Ahh yes, the country of punishment > rehab
 
2012-08-17 03:43:30 PM

Itstoearly: downstairs: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: but there's a difference between being attracted to children and molesting children. The majority of people on the planet, straight, gay, dabbling, whatever, manage to not periodically rape the object of their attractions.


Pretty much.  There are plenty of straight males that have zero social skills to be able to get laid.  And have no money to hire a prostitute.  They may suffer from depression and are probably pretty lonely.   But I don't think there's any correlation between that and rape.  Or even desire to rape.

Rape is about control, not sexual satisfaction.


Is that true in the animal kingdom? What if your society is incredibly repressed? Maybe a porn-rich, sexualized society has so many sexual outlets and pressure release valves for hetersexuals that the power-hungry rapists are selected for.
 
2012-08-17 04:03:15 PM

Dr. Q Alias: The brain tumors could have caused him to molest kids. It's been known to happen. Whether or not he should still be considered guilty if that's true is another story.


Yeah, on house they had a girl that had pins pushed into her head to try to kill her as a baby, so her parents wouldn't be arrested for making too many kids. She was a vicious alcoholic but it turns out one of the pins was pushing on her addiction center.

I mean, if I had 4 tumors in my head, and they were pushing on both my "fark kids in the mouth" and "reason the difference between what you want to do and what you should do will get you put in jail with a bunch of self-righteous serial murder-rapists that want to rape and murder you", I might do something terribly, terribly stupid too.

Just sayin'. Squeezing the brain isn't a remote control; it's distortion. It's hard to think straight when stuff's pushed on.

/is there a "fark kids in the mouth" part of the brain?
//Cell phone radiation could possibly excite the "fark kids in the mouth" part of the brain. Cell phones cause pedophiles!
///Someone will eventually conclude this and sue the city for putting in wifi parking meters and increasing the number of pedophiles in the area
 
2012-08-17 04:07:42 PM

Lumpmoose: Itstoearly: downstairs: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: but there's a difference between being attracted to children and molesting children. The majority of people on the planet, straight, gay, dabbling, whatever, manage to not periodically rape the object of their attractions.


Pretty much.  There are plenty of straight males that have zero social skills to be able to get laid.  And have no money to hire a prostitute.  They may suffer from depression and are probably pretty lonely.   But I don't think there's any correlation between that and rape.  Or even desire to rape.

Rape is about control, not sexual satisfaction.

Is that true in the animal kingdom? What if your society is incredibly repressed? Maybe a porn-rich, sexualized society has so many sexual outlets and pressure release valves for hetersexuals that the power-hungry rapists are selected for.


Most people that want sex but don't have a partner manually relieve themselves.
 
2012-08-17 04:09:40 PM
A few things appear quite odd about the situation:

First, dumbassmitter doesn't seem to understand the difference between someone who is awaiting trial and someone who has been convicted of a crime.

Second, why was his bond so low ($75,000) - is it because the prosecutor/court know he can't get the money, or because they don't think he's a flight risk, or because they don't think his crimes are serious? The amount is shockingly low for a potential 290 year sentence.

Third, since bond is supposed to be the least onerous condition that is likely to make someone appear at trial, then if the Judge is suddenly OK with letting him out to get medical treatment and stay at home, why was there ANY cash bond in the first place? Looked at the other way if the bond was intended to keep him in jail because he's a danger to the community then why let him out at all?

Finally, why are they letting him out completely for something like off-site medical treatment? That can be done without releasing him from custody via police escort and transfer of custody to the receiving jurisdiction. None of the rationales for pre-trial detention match up to the facts presented in this article, so either he shouldn't have been in jail at all before the trial, or he shouldn't be let out at all.
 
2012-08-17 04:13:17 PM

Itstoearly: downstairs: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: but there's a difference between being attracted to children and molesting children. The majority of people on the planet, straight, gay, dabbling, whatever, manage to not periodically rape the object of their attractions.


Pretty much.  There are plenty of straight males that have zero social skills to be able to get laid.  And have no money to hire a prostitute.  They may suffer from depression and are probably pretty lonely.   But I don't think there's any correlation between that and rape.  Or even desire to rape.

Rape is about control, not sexual satisfaction.


Haha, that's rich.

Rape is about any combination of sexual urges, psychopathic selfishness, control and humiliation, and anger and sadism. The specific mix changes from person to person, and oversimplifying it down to one reason is the sign of a simple mind.
 
2012-08-17 04:24:44 PM

BronyMedic:
So, in this case, the ethical debate becomes more of is it ethical or moral to involuntarily commit a pedophile who has offended to a facility for the rest of his or her life, or until there is a proven treatment available which can change his Pedophilic sexual orientation.


What you raise as "treatment" is very, very dangerous.

Is it really right to "fix" pedophiles? It's only a "problem" because it's not socially acceptable--like being gay. Like it or not, that's basically the whole argument. The de-facto support here is that we used to marry off 13 year olds, pregnant with kids at 14; now we think you're a sick individual for noticing curvy, shapely, sporty little 13 year olds that look ripe for making babies. Younger ages are more straight-forward (it was never socially acceptable to boink 8 year olds and there is no real reason for doing so), but the basic argument that it's just "not socially acceptable" still holds for THIS particular purpose.

And the purpose here is simple: we're talking about a piece of someone's personality. An undesirable piece, but a piece all the same. What if some girl's a slut? What if some guy likes watching his wife get farked by strange men? What about gays? People with incest tendencies? These are things that, in varying degrees, we also don't accept socially from a mainstream perspective (plenty of guys like sluts, the swinger life is a subculture, but for the most part as a society we point and say, "BAD").

Since this is bad, should we go in and tinker with it? Change who you are? I guess if you voluntarily want that piece removed, maybe; it's scary and disturbing, but that's your choice. But here we're calling it such a "dangerous social disease" that we'd legally force you into this kind of treatment. That's really worrisome.

I believe that coping mechanisms are good. There are risks, costs, trade-offs, and so on, in all things; we like to take zero risks, and even less when we face emotional topics, but the mitigation comes at a huge cost. If you think pedophilia is a "disease," then the "treatment" should be coping.

You should assess first that the person is indeed sincere about wanting to not commit such acts again (this can be because he wants to avoid trouble or because it's an internal paradox--i.e. he actually thinks the acts are wrong--but I think the distinction is largely unimportant, although specific motivation is significant); without said sincerity, he is dedicated to being a criminal.

With that, you put the guy with shrinks. They talk to him, discuss with him, help him work out whatever he needs to gain control over his behavior. The hardest part is recognizing all the triggers. For example, whenever I've pursued a girl I've distinctly decided to front the commitment--that is, I stop trying to sleep with other girls. I have a hormonal trigger where if I'm not actively dating and haven't made any real promises, I'm not TECHNICALLY morally bound by that behavior; as soon as I'm horny I deviate in seconds, so the moment another girl at a bar talks to me well then... boner time. For a pedophile, that would easily translate: he's certainly sincere, until some little girl smiles at him and then it all goes downhill... and recognizing such specific weaknesses then allows you to specifically target them.

The final stages are to account for the triggers and control over them. Not just that they can be discussed, but that they can be controlled: that thoughts can be recognized, impulses reacted to. A continuous assessment of sincerity is required too--the guy may start thinking he could get away with things along the way, working out how to not get caught (itself a longer term trigger, and HARD to recognize: you sincerely mean X when you say it, but over time you start to wonder, then you start to think you could sneak it in, then start to plan out how...). In that case, he has criminal tendencies and goes to jail. If he just has control problems ... more treatment, detention is less punitive (a cozy prison is still a prison, but you have to admit it's a necessary concession if we believe you cannot control your behavior that you've acceded to us detaining you for in lieu of successful treatment).

I can agree with treatment, with voluntary non-coerced physical treatments as well as with trained coping. I can't agree with coerced or forced physical treatments, where we forcibly modify a person's thoughts and feelings to make him conform to our ideal society. We can execute a murderer; I don't believe we have the right to genetically, physically, or chemically modify the murderer's brain and mind and personality to make him a different person in the same body. Call a spade a farking shovel: We're killing the man, it's not pretty, and we can't pretend it's pretty. We can definitely pretend that "fixing" your serial killer, rapist, pedophilic, kleptomaniacle, homosexual, republican, liberal tendencies is something pretty and wonderful, but it's sure as hell not if you're forcing this on someone.
 
2012-08-17 04:35:49 PM

doubled99: He was born with these desires. He has a disease. He needs treatment, not incarceration


Then he should have sought treatment before he (allegedly) victimized someone. Once there are victims, then a crime has been committed and you go to prison.

Our society is okay with the "I need treatment" point of view, as long as you reach this personal epiphany before committing a crime and getting caught for it.
 
2012-08-17 04:40:39 PM

Quick Fixer: I think the real question is:

Why has this man who has not been proven to have committed a crime been locked up for fourteen months?

That doesn't sound very fair or speedy to me.


because some people can't make bail, and he most likely waived his right to a speedy trial so he could have an attorney prepare a good defense. The court system takes a long time to get through if you do that.

I find the poll on the side of the page much more amusing.
 
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