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(The New York Times)   NY Times asks the tough questions: 'Should the middle class be forced at the point of a gun to give more money to rich people?'   (nytimes.com) divider line 176
    More: Asinine, Citizens for Tax Justice, financial plan, middle class, wealths, capital gains taxes  
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2655 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Aug 2012 at 1:47 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-17 12:32:02 PM  
See how liberal they are.
 
2012-08-17 12:35:40 PM  
The Cato Institute? Aren't they a commie outfit?
 
2012-08-17 12:36:30 PM  
Ryan called for an end to taxes on capital gains, interest and dividends. Romney has pointed out that such a plan would eliminate almost all of his own tax bill.

I pray to thee, oh heavenly Job Creators, what more taxes may I eliminate before you'll actually, you know, create jobs?
 
2012-08-17 12:38:56 PM  
The point of having a modicum of income equality in a civil society is to reduce the incentive for people to take other people's shiat at the barrel of a gun. But apparently, Republicans prefer to be mugged.
 
2012-08-17 12:40:16 PM  
Capital gains are parasitic, and as such should have a higher tax than income.
 
2012-08-17 12:46:23 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Capital gains are parasitic, and as such should have a higher tax than income.


At the very least, they should be treated AS income.
 
2012-08-17 12:47:29 PM  
I predict a rational and well-informed discussion of the facts for this thread. I also predict I'll get to make out with Olivia Wilde tonight.
 
2012-08-17 12:52:53 PM  
I think we should bring back slavery. Not that half-assed peonage bullshiat either. I'm talking full-blown hunt 'em down, chain 'em up, whip 'em slavery.

It's the only way to put America back to work.

These liberals and their "wages" are hurting job creation and dragging down our economy.
 
2012-08-17 12:53:27 PM  
So how many people has the IRS actually shot for not paying taxes? I haven't gotten a good answer for that.
 
2012-08-17 01:06:13 PM  

hillbillypharmacist: So how many people has the IRS actually shot for not paying taxes? I haven't gotten a good answer for that.


Estimates range from the thousands to the tens of thousands. The problem is that the IRS has such completely unfettered access to our data that they can effectively erase any of us from existence with a few keystrokes. So after their yearly purge of non-payers, they can simply delete all of those who've been shot from their files -- effectively deleting them from existence. It's like they never even were, and that's what's really terrifying about this.

I've heard stories of mass graves in the Alleghenies. They stretch for miles. But I wouldn't recommend you go looking for them.
 
2012-08-17 01:07:22 PM  
well obviously - the answer is yes. See, it's all about socialisms. if you don't let the rich loot and pillage at will, then socialisms will happen. socialisms will happen in our schools and our churches. you'll have socialisms at home and in our litterboxes. even our cats will be socialisms. socialisms will happen in football and baseball. there will be socialisms EVERYWHERE!

you don't want socialisms now do you? of course you don't. Socalisms!

/scary stuff man.
//I think I'll dress up as socialism for Halloween this year.
 
2012-08-17 01:09:30 PM  

Pocket Ninja: hillbillypharmacist: So how many people has the IRS actually shot for not paying taxes? I haven't gotten a good answer for that.

Estimates range from the thousands to the tens of thousands. The problem is that the IRS has such completely unfettered access to our data that they can effectively erase any of us from existence with a few keystrokes. So after their yearly purge of non-payers, they can simply delete all of those who've been shot from their files -- effectively deleting them from existence. It's like they never even were, and that's what's really terrifying about this.

I've heard stories of mass graves in the Alleghenies. They stretch for miles. But I wouldn't recommend you go looking for them.


So that's what that Sandra Bullock movie was about...
 
2012-08-17 01:14:56 PM  
I bet the GOP is being this derpy so we'll eventually beg for something like FairTax.
 
2012-08-17 01:17:23 PM  
dirty little secret: rich folks don't get rich by stealing from the poor.

its like the ocean trying to steal water from the desert.

you can't steal from people what they don't have.
 
2012-08-17 01:18:52 PM  

SlothB77: dirty little secret: rich folks don't get rich by stealing from the poor..


true - rich people get (and stay) rich by exploiting the poor and keeping them in debt.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-08-17 01:27:22 PM  

unyon: The point of having a modicum of income equality in a civil society is to reduce the incentive for people to take other people's shiat at the barrel of a gun. But apparently, Republicans prefer to be mugged.


Well, that and to increase consumption, which increases demand which is what allows businesses to make money in the first place.
 
2012-08-17 01:38:06 PM  

SlothB77: dirty little secret: rich folks don't get rich by stealing from the poor.

its like the ocean trying to steal water from the desert.


historymartinez.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-08-17 01:49:02 PM  
A better question might be, "Should reporters be beaten to death when caught on the street by mobs of hungry citizens?"
 
2012-08-17 01:49:11 PM  
What are the details of Mitt Romney's tax plan? Elect him and find out

This is Mitt's ENTIRE campaign so far.......trust me guys I'm not black.
 
2012-08-17 01:50:03 PM  

SlothB77: you can't steal from people what they don't have.


And you can't tax what they don't have either. Remember that.
 
2012-08-17 01:52:19 PM  
"Income should only be taxed if you had to work for it."

That's genius.
 
2012-08-17 01:52:52 PM  
Yes, yes they should. And the poor should be forced to sacrifice their bodies if they can't pay sufficient tribute.

Whatever is necessary to trigger the bloody revolution this Country needs.
 
2012-08-17 01:56:40 PM  

SlothB77: dirty little secret: rich folks don't get rich by stealing from the poor.

its like the ocean trying to steal water from the desert.

you can't steal from people what they don't have.


But they can still steal their refrigerators.
 
2012-08-17 01:57:43 PM  
Upton Sinclair's book "The Jungle" should be required reading in all high schools.

I never thought when I was reading that book and shaking my head over how awful things used to be that I would one day be living in a country that was clawing and kicking its way back to that "utopia"!

It makes it seem like no progress has been made in my entire life, when things can be reversed so easily. All it takes is thirty years of derp (I date the ruin of America to the election of Ronald Regan and "trickle-down" economics and "trees cause pollution") and people think it is perfectly fine to have all those horrors back as long as their team wins and libs are pissed off.

I farking hate people.
 
2012-08-17 02:00:08 PM  
The best thing we can hope for is that the democrats only give the republicans 98% of whatever they want.

SlothB77: dirty little secret: rich folks don't get rich by stealing from the poor.

its like the ocean trying to steal water from the desert.

you can't steal from people what they don't have.


Feudalism's next.
 
2012-08-17 02:02:34 PM  
No. And also f*ck you. And no. And go f*ck yourselves. And no. And drink a vial of AIDS and die. And also no.
 
2012-08-17 02:03:57 PM  
But would eliminating taxes on investment and savings help the economy grow, or would it simply create more inequality and debt?

Well, the devil as always is in the details but eliminating capital gains taxes in the ways Romney and Ryan have proposed would guarantee that the US turn into a neo-feudal society.

The answer isn't to stop taxing capital gains at all the answer is to tax that shiat as income and not let asshats like Romney get away with making more than 99% of the rest of the country and paying such a low rate.

Also a 1% wealth tax once a decade would be very useful.

There's no political will to do these things, obviously, but that's what should happen.
 
2012-08-17 02:04:15 PM  

SlothB77: dirty little secret: rich folks don't get rich by stealing from the poor.


Sure they do. But instead of stealing money, they steal their productivity via the time preference advantage that capital has over labor. That productivity is then traded to the middle class for THEIR money.
 
2012-08-17 02:07:21 PM  
yes becayse if they dont then we wont have rich people so no one will have jobs and everyone will be poor and sad except fhr the chinese :(
 
2012-08-17 02:07:36 PM  

SlothB77: dirty little secret: rich folks don't get rich by stealing from the poor.

its like the ocean trying to steal water from the desert.


Actually, your little simile there is wrong, and only proves the point. The ocean doesn't steal water directly, but it has help. Moisture evaporates in the desert, is carried west by the prevailing winds, rains on the mountains, and is carried by streams and rivers to the ocean.

Republicans are the prevailing winds, in case that wasn't obvious.
 
2012-08-17 02:08:22 PM  
I like that they really want us to believe an increase in the capital gains tax would make these rich farks stop investing.

"Why, I'll just stop making money altogether if you tax me! THEN YOU'LL BE SORRY"
 
2012-08-17 02:09:06 PM  

Kome: I predict a rational and well-informed discussion of the facts for this thread. I also predict I'll get to make out with Olivia Wilde tonight.


The differ being, there is actually a one in 4 billion chance you could actually run into Olivia tonight.
 
2012-08-17 02:11:29 PM  

MorrisBird: The Cato Institute? Aren't they a commie outfit?


No, Bruce Lee was born in Hong Kong when it was part of British Empire.
 
2012-08-17 02:12:04 PM  

Aarontology: Marcus Aurelius: Capital gains are parasitic, and as such should have a higher tax than income.

At the very least, they should be treated AS income.


that money has already been taxed once, as income. that post-tax money is used to invest, and needs to be taxed again at the same amount?
 
2012-08-17 02:12:22 PM  

Lumpmoose: I pray to thee, oh heavenly Job Creators, what more taxes may I eliminate before you'll actually, you know, create jobs?


Shhhhhhh ... your uncomfortable questioning is creating a ubiquitous hostile business environment which makes it impossible for job creators to create jobs.
 
2012-08-17 02:12:25 PM  
A lot of the GOPers seem to like the way things were in the '50s and early '60s (women and minorities knew their place, a martini or two at lunch was expected, and the clubs didn't let "those people" join), so let's give them what they want: a 91% income tax rate on all income over $400,000 and a 25% capital gains tax.



/wassa matter? don't like Ike anymore?
 
2012-08-17 02:12:28 PM  
This is what conservatives really think.
 
2012-08-17 02:13:05 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: I like that they really want us to believe an increase in the capital gains tax would make these rich farks stop investing.

"Why, I'll just stop making money altogether if you tax me! THEN YOU'LL BE SORRY"


It's like someone walking up to me and offering me a billion dollars as a gift.

I'd say "I'll have to pay taxes on that! No thanks."
 
2012-08-17 02:13:45 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: I like that they really want us to believe an increase in the capital gains tax would make these rich farks stop investing.

"Why, I'll just stop making money altogether if you tax me! THEN YOU'LL BE SORRY"


These morons think money itself needs to be incentivized when in fact it is pure incentive to begin with.

/Yes, I make up my own words.
 
2012-08-17 02:14:56 PM  

Kome: I predict a rational and well-informed discussion of the facts for this thread. I also predict I'll get to make out with Olivia Wilde tonight.


Hey, keep your celebrity look-a-like sex doll out of this discussion.
 
2012-08-17 02:15:08 PM  

Green Scorpio: Aarontology: Marcus Aurelius: Capital gains are parasitic, and as such should have a higher tax than income.

At the very least, they should be treated AS income.

that money has already been taxed once, as income. that post-tax money is used to invest, and needs to be taxed again at the same amount?


They aren't taxing the money that's used to invest - they're taxing the profits made from that money.
 
2012-08-17 02:15:52 PM  
We should just give all the money to the rich and have done with it. Maybe when they finally have all the money they'll stop being such dicks about it.
 
2012-08-17 02:16:16 PM  
rufus-t-firefly: Green Scorpio: Aarontology: Marcus Aurelius: Capital gains are parasitic, and as such should have a higher tax than income.

At the very least, they should be treated AS income.

that money has already been taxed once, as income. that post-tax money is used to invest, and needs to be taxed again at the same amount?

They aren't taxing the money that's used to invest - they're taxing the profits made from that money.


And my company pays taxes, so why are their payments to me being taxed again?
 
2012-08-17 02:16:36 PM  
In b4 someone claims that cap gains are already taxed at 45% because a business pays taxes on it first before they give it to you, so really you're paying the business' tax as well as your own, same as how when you buy groceries, you're also paying the farmer's income tax.

Yes. Tax it as "income", especially if the gain results from a holding that comes as part of employment compensation. I have less of a problem taxing actual cap gains differently, so long as those come from actual stocks/other (noncapital) holdings bought as from a brokerage house and unconnected with "fee-for-service" arrangements.
 
2012-08-17 02:16:39 PM  
sonocarina.files.wordpress.com

ancient Navajo job creation dance
 
2012-08-17 02:17:16 PM  

Green Scorpio: Aarontology: Marcus Aurelius: Capital gains are parasitic, and as such should have a higher tax than income.

At the very least, they should be treated AS income.

that money has already been taxed once, as income. that post-tax money is used to invest, and needs to be taxed again at the same amount?



Sure. It's a transfer of wealth that is not an operating expense, so why not?
 
2012-08-17 02:17:49 PM  
"Taxing capital income causes capital to seek countries with lower rates. Jobs are lost when that capital builds businesses elsewhere."

Here's the problem in a nutshell. So long as goods can be manufactured for less in other countries, capital will inevitably fly from this country to be more profitably invested elsewhere. There are only two solutions to this intractable problem.

1. Blue collar workers in this country must accept a lower (much lower) standard of living in order to be competitive with foreign workers.
2. Oblige capitalists to accept lower returns on their investments.

You can't really prevent the wealthy from off-shoring their money and their investments. Perhaps we should consider changing our approach to foreign aid to one of encouraging revolutionary parties in low income countries in order to make them less desirable places to relocate factories. If the oppressed workers of Burma and Mexico suddenly started parading around the heads of Bain investors on pikes, they (well, their survivors) might think twice about moving jobs out of the US.
 
2012-08-17 02:19:41 PM  

Pocket Ninja: hillbillypharmacist: So how many people has the IRS actually shot for not paying taxes? I haven't gotten a good answer for that.

Estimates range from the thousands to the tens of thousands. The problem is that the IRS has such completely unfettered access to our data that they can effectively erase any of us from existence with a few keystrokes. So after their yearly purge of non-payers, they can simply delete all of those who've been shot from their files -- effectively deleting them from existence. It's like they never even were, and that's what's really terrifying about this.

I've heard stories of mass graves in the Alleghenies. They stretch for miles. But I wouldn't recommend you go looking for them.


You are on a role today.
 
2012-08-17 02:20:05 PM  

Green Scorpio: Aarontology: Marcus Aurelius: Capital gains are parasitic, and as such should have a higher tax than income.

At the very least, they should be treated AS income.

that money has already been taxed once, as income. that post-tax money is used to invest, and needs to be taxed again at the same amount?


Ah, jeez, not the double-taxation myth again. You need to stop reading pamphlets of conservative outrage.
 
2012-08-17 02:20:17 PM  

ryant123: You are on a role today.


*roll
 
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