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(Philly.com)   Pennsylvania woman is issued a picture ID even though she doesn't have the correct documents   (philly.com) divider line 224
    More: Scary, Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania Department of Transportation, voter ID, lead plaintiff, ID card, documents  
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3326 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Aug 2012 at 9:15 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-17 09:06:17 AM  
All this proves is that the current efforts to end the rampant abuse of our voting system do not go far enough, and we need to explore some more innovative ways of ensuring that only Real Americans are allowed access to the polls. Perhaps a quiz of some sort administered on-site to ensure that people are really from this country. Like, I read how during World War II, paratroopers in the 101st would interrogate soldiers they encountered in the woods who were dressed as Americans because sometimes the Germans sent out spies in American uniforms. So they'd whisper FLASH and the new guy would have to say THUNDER and that was the secret code, see? And then they'd ask a couple of other questions, like who was Rita Hayworth and what town did the Dodgers play in and what was the best economic vehicle to use for rapidly diversifying a narrow market-based portfolio. He missed any of them, BLAM -- bullet to the head, one less German spy in the world.

I'm not saying we shoot people caught trying to vote illegally, of course. If they fail a question, they could just pay a fine or get deported or something.

And yes, smart guy, I know administering a test like this at polling stations would cost money. And I know that money is in short supply. So we just charge a small fee to take it, an administration fee. You know, for hiring the questioners and the guys who write the questions and stuff like that. It wouldn't have to be a lot, just a few bucks. What sort of person is going to complain about a few dollars out of pocket to protect a right as precious as voting? I tell you what -- those sorts of people would be *exactly* the ones we should be on the lookout for.
 
2012-08-17 09:19:11 AM  

Pocket Ninja: \words


*SWOON*
 
2012-08-17 09:20:01 AM  
So old people can commit voter fraud with impunity. Nice. Thanks Obama.
 
2012-08-17 09:20:46 AM  
Caught this and the Ohio shenanigans on The Daily Show last night. Cripes the GOP isn't even trying to hide it anymore.
 
2012-08-17 09:23:29 AM  

Pocket Ninja: So they'd whisper FLASH and the new guy would have to say THUNDER and that was the secret code, see? And then they'd ask a couple of other questions, like who was Rita Hayworth and what town did the Dodgers play in and what was the best economic vehicle to use for rapidly diversifying a narrow market-based portfolio. He missed any of them, BLAM -- bullet to the head, one less German spy in the world.


"terror of flight"
 
2012-08-17 09:24:48 AM  
there are "thousands of Ms. Applewhites out there who still don't have ID. It would be nice if PennDot relaxed the rules for all of them."

Just keep suing states that have these disenfranchisement laws until they are bankrupt.
 
2012-08-17 09:25:46 AM  
PennDot's official guidelines say a Social Security card is required in order to obtain a nondriver photo ID. A PennDot employee answering the agency's voter ID hotline Thursday said the card was a must.

But according to Dolan, who heads the licensing bureau, eligible voters who don't have one can try to persuade a clerk with a combination of other items.


Well, now that just makes it all better. We impose a law, supposedly to combat non-existent voter fraud, which actually ENCOURAGES voter fraud. How long will it take before there is a report of "other items" such as cash, persuading the clerk to issue the voter id card to someone who didn't present documentation.

\\The point of a law is uniformity in it's enforcement, idiots.
 
2012-08-17 09:26:33 AM  

andrewagill: Pocket Ninja: So they'd whisper FLASH and the new guy would have to say THUNDER and that was the secret code, see? And then they'd ask a couple of other questions, like who was Rita Hayworth and what town did the Dodgers play in and what was the best economic vehicle to use for rapidly diversifying a narrow market-based portfolio. He missed any of them, BLAM -- bullet to the head, one less German spy in the world.

"terror of flight"


"Gloom of the Grave"
 
2012-08-17 09:26:50 AM  
See, all it took was years of trying, a huge legal case, and national attention to allow this 93-year-old woman her right to vote. When voter ID advocates say these laws don't disenfranchise anyone and don't put up undue hurdles to voting, they're not lying out their a$$es at all. It's also totally reasonable to cut early voting hours in Democratic districts and expand them in Republican districts. I can't believe anyone would think that's political! People are so over-sensitive.
 
2012-08-17 09:26:54 AM  

Free birth certificate and voter ID in Pennsylvania. Spread the word. Help those without computers or cars get ID. portal.state.pa.us/portal/server....

- Steve Weinstein (@steveweinstein) August 16, 2012
 
2012-08-17 09:28:04 AM  
Applewhite - who rode two SEPTA buses to get to the center -

A 92 yeqr old woman now has to take two buses to get the right to vote because the President is black. Lets call it what it is. This shiat is madness.


/Disgusted
 
2012-08-17 09:28:52 AM  

Pocket Ninja: All this proves is that the current efforts to end the rampant abuse of our voting system do not go far enough, and we need to explore some more innovative ways of ensuring that only Real Americans are allowed access to the polls. Perhaps a quiz of some sort administered on-site to ensure that people are really from this country. Like, I read how during World War II, paratroopers in the 101st would interrogate soldiers they encountered in the woods who were dressed as Americans because sometimes the Germans sent out spies in American uniforms. So they'd whisper FLASH and the new guy would have to say THUNDER and that was the secret code, see? And then they'd ask a couple of other questions, like who was Rita Hayworth and what town did the Dodgers play in and what was the best economic vehicle to use for rapidly diversifying a narrow market-based portfolio. He missed any of them, BLAM -- bullet to the head, one less German spy in the world.

I'm not saying we shoot people caught trying to vote illegally, of course. If they fail a question, they could just pay a fine or get deported or something.

And yes, smart guy, I know administering a test like this at polling stations would cost money. And I know that money is in short supply. So we just charge a small fee to take it, an administration fee. You know, for hiring the questioners and the guys who write the questions and stuff like that. It wouldn't have to be a lot, just a few bucks. What sort of person is going to complain about a few dollars out of pocket to protect a right as precious as voting? I tell you what -- those sorts of people would be *exactly* the ones we should be on the lookout for.


You should post this on Free Republic, and time how long it takes for it to come back to you via email.

/FWD:FWD:RE:FWD:RE:RE:RE:RE:FWD:FWD:RE: THIS GUY SAYS WHAT WE ALL KNOW IS THE TRUTH!!!!1!
 
2012-08-17 09:30:14 AM  

King Something: andrewagill: Pocket Ninja: So they'd whisper FLASH and the new guy would have to say THUNDER and that was the secret code, see? And then they'd ask a couple of other questions, like who was Rita Hayworth and what town did the Dodgers play in and what was the best economic vehicle to use for rapidly diversifying a narrow market-based portfolio. He missed any of them, BLAM -- bullet to the head, one less German spy in the world.

"terror of flight"

"Gloom of the Grave"


That's him! King Something is the German Spy!
 
2012-08-17 09:30:30 AM  

Close2TheEdge: But according to Dolan, who heads the licensing bureau, eligible voters who don't have one can try to persuade a clerk with a combination of other items.


Or, you know, we could skip the useless ID cards altogether. How long until these ID aren't sufficient for voting because they may have been obtained fraudulently?
 
2012-08-17 09:30:37 AM  
YEAH RIGHT LIBBIES LIKE ANYONE DOESN'T HAVE A PHOTO ID THESE DAYS
 
2012-08-17 09:32:19 AM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Free birth certificate and voter ID in Pennsylvania. Spread the word. Help those without computers or cars get ID. portal.state.pa.us/portal/server....- Steve Weinstein (@steveweinstein) August 16, 2012


If people are excited by the idea of voting being free (hint: it's SUPPOSED to be free) you know there's a perception of being disenfranchised. Thanks, Republicans.
 
2012-08-17 09:33:09 AM  
"Scary"? How about "Obvious"?

Security - real security, not the theater and wishful thinking that is so common - is hard. It's an ongoing process, that requires constant vigilance, at a level that most people can't accomplish.

The military pulls it off when it wants to, because they have the luxury of *always* checking things like ID, *always* checking references. *always* following procedures even if someone thinks they're "sure" about something or someone. And they have the luxury to shoot you for failures in that process, which helps a lot with keeping people vigilant.

If we tried to apply that to the civilian world, though... we'd never get anything done. More to the point, believing that even a tiny fraction of what it takes to maintain actual security at, say, your local DMV is laughable. People just don't care.

So really, we'd be better off abandoning the whole thing. Get rid of "ID" and other useless security theater. That money can be used for something that's actually useful. And as a bonus: abandoning the illusion we currently maintain - that any random ID is even remotely accurate - would help prevent people from falling into a false sense of security, and maybe actually pay a bit more attention to some stuff.

/want to argue the that any kind of common ID actually helps security by any amount?
//then first explain why, when teenagers can get top-quality fake IDs, it's somehow impossible or unlikely that an *actual criminal* can't?
 
2012-08-17 09:33:16 AM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: Applewhite - who rode two SEPTA buses to get to the center -

A 92 yeqr old woman now has to take two buses to get the right to vote because the President is black. Lets call it what it is. This shiat is madness.


/Disgusted


Don't be silly. This isn't because the President is black. It's because she and the President are black.
 
2012-08-17 09:35:16 AM  
DROxINxTHExWIND: A 92 yeqr old woman now has to take two buses to get the right to vote because the President is black. Lets call it what it is. This shiat is madness.
 
2012-08-17 09:37:31 AM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: A 92 yeqr old woman now has to take two buses to get the right to vote because the President is black. Lets call it what it is. This shiat is madness.


As an alternative, she could prove that her grandfather voted. Its a little known loophole in the GOP voter id laws.
 
2012-08-17 09:38:03 AM  

The Great EZE: DROxINxTHExWIND: Applewhite - who rode two SEPTA buses to get to the center -

A 92 yeqr old woman now has to take two buses to get the right to vote because the President is black. Lets call it what it is. This shiat is madness.


/Disgusted

Don't be silly. This isn't because the President is black. It's because she and the President are black.


And because so many black people voted in 2008. The GOP's response to that wasn't 'Maybe we should try to widen our message to draw black voters.' It was 'Shut it down.'
 
2012-08-17 09:39:04 AM  
So it comes down to a judgment call by an individual bureaucratic......brilliant legislation.

/also can't wait until the follow-up where she was turned away at the polls
 
2012-08-17 09:39:40 AM  
The GOP has finally decided to stop farking around and just use democracy as a weapon against itself. The game will now be openly rigged, and the pendulum will not be allowed to swing back. There will be a Permanent Republican Majority whether the American people want it or not. Electing a black man to the presidency was apparently the last straw.
 
2012-08-17 09:42:55 AM  
There are two values in voting that exist in dynamic tension with one another: the idea that voting should have maximal participation and the idea that voting should be free from fraud. There isn't a way to increase one without trading off on the other, and reasonable people of good will can disagree about where that balance should be struck.

What's important here, is that we all take a minute, then start shrieking at each other like a bunch of hysterical children. Because that really serves the interests of democracy: a shrill, pedantic discourse rife with strawmen and ad hominem attacks.
 
2012-08-17 09:43:04 AM  
House Majority Leader Mike Turzai: "Pro-Second Amendment? The Castle Doctrine, it's done. First pro-life legislation - abortion facility regulations - in 22 years, done. Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done."

They don't even try to hide it, haven't in months. I understand that people like this think they are doing what's best for our country, but how they can sleep at night is a complete mystery to me.
 
2012-08-17 09:45:02 AM  

Sir Roderick Glossop: There isn't a way to increase one without trading off on the other,


Uhh, Canada would beg to differ.

Sir Roderick Glossop: a shrill, pedantic discourse


Oh, dammit. I jumped the gun there.
 
2012-08-17 09:45:29 AM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: The GOP has finally decided to stop farking around and just use democracy as a weapon against itself. The game will now be openly rigged, and the pendulum will not be allowed to swing back. There will be a Permanent Republican Majority whether the American people want it or not. Electing a black man to the presidency was apparently the last straw.


*hands you a brown paper bag to breathe into*
 
2012-08-17 09:45:49 AM  

Close2TheEdge: \\The point of a law is uniformity in it's enforcement, idiots.


Not this law. They explicitly stated that the intent is to discriminate against people who are unlikely to vote for them
 
2012-08-17 09:46:07 AM  
"PennDot has said all along that they would work with folks on a case-by-case basis," said Ron Ruman, a Department of State spokesman.

Then what's the point?

/A nation of men instead of a nation of laws?
 
2012-08-17 09:46:12 AM  
She will vote for the dark guy.
 
2012-08-17 09:46:18 AM  

Headso: there are "thousands of Ms. Applewhites out there who still don't have ID. It would be nice if PennDot relaxed the rules for all of them."

Just keep suing states that have these disenfranchisement laws until they are bankrupt.


Just like a liberal. Completely ignore supreme court precedent if you don't agree with it. Act like a 2 year old until you get your way. Such children.
 
2012-08-17 09:46:46 AM  
I was really let down that out state supreme court upheld this bullshiat.

There are appeals at the next level going on, and I'm hoping there's at least an injunction before November.

The thing that really burns my ass in this is that in the most recent case, the Commonwealth stipulated that they had no proof that there had been any voter fraud, and the supremes still upheld the law.
 
2012-08-17 09:47:12 AM  

Epoch_Zero: Uhh, Canada would beg to differ.


How do they do things up there?
 
2012-08-17 09:48:17 AM  

Sir Roderick Glossop: There are two values in voting that exist in dynamic tension with one another: the idea that voting should have maximal participation and the idea that voting should be free from fraud. There isn't a way to increase one without trading off on the other, and reasonable people of good will can disagree about where that balance should be struck.

What's important here, is that we all take a minute, then start shrieking at each other like a bunch of hysterical children. Because that really serves the interests of democracy: a shrill, pedantic discourse rife with strawmen and ad hominem attacks.


It's only genuine tension if there is statistically significant in-person voter fraud permeating our system. Otherwise it's simply using a bazooka to kill imaginary elves.
 
2012-08-17 09:48:27 AM  
There are two groups of people.

People who recognize the problem with voter fraud and want to do something about it.

People who recognize the problem with voter fraud and will do everything to make sure nothing is done about it.
 
2012-08-17 09:48:43 AM  

MyRandomName: Headso: there are "thousands of Ms. Applewhites out there who still don't have ID. It would be nice if PennDot relaxed the rules for all of them."

Just keep suing states that have these disenfranchisement laws until they are bankrupt.

Just like a liberal. Completely ignore supreme court precedent if you don't agree with it. Act like a 2 year old until you get your way. Such children.


We all know the supreme court is always right all the time even when they turn over old decisions and the need for civil disobedience has never been necessary in the history of the US.
 
2012-08-17 09:50:06 AM  

randomjsa: There are two groups of people.

People who recognize the problem with voter fraud and want to do something about it.

People who recognize the problem with voter fraud and will do everything to make sure nothing is done about it.



C. people who know voter fraud is practically non-existent.
 
2012-08-17 09:50:22 AM  
If they're going to require photo ID for voting, they should aggressively get people to obtain them, just like they do for vote registry. They also need to be free, because it's kinda farked up that you'd essentially be making people pay to vote in America.
 
2012-08-17 09:50:27 AM  

andrewagill: King Something: andrewagill: Pocket Ninja: So they'd whisper FLASH and the new guy would have to say THUNDER and that was the secret code, see? And then they'd ask a couple of other questions, like who was Rita Hayworth and what town did the Dodgers play in and what was the best economic vehicle to use for rapidly diversifying a narrow market-based portfolio. He missed any of them, BLAM -- bullet to the head, one less German spy in the world.

"terror of flight"

"Gloom of the Grave"

That's him! King Something is the German Spy!


Nonono! Me no Gelman! Totarry not Gelman! No can say "Shwalzward" light!

Must reave now, be at gym for Rorraparooza in 26 minutes!
 
2012-08-17 09:50:59 AM  

randomjsa: There are two groups of people.

People who recognize the problem with voter fraud and want to do something about it.

People who recognize the problem with voter fraud and will do everything to make sure nothing is done about it.


there are two groups of people.

People who recognize all the deaths from marijuana and want to keep it illegal.

People who recognize all the deaths from marijuana and want to make sure it is legalized anyway.
 
2012-08-17 09:51:14 AM  
 
2012-08-17 09:51:27 AM  

randomjsa: There are two groups of people.

People who recognize the problem with voter fraud and want to do something about it.

People who recognize the problem with voter fraud and will do everything to make sure nothing is done about it.


What problem with voter fraud?
 
2012-08-17 09:51:57 AM  

Rich Cream: randomjsa: There are two groups of people.

People who recognize the problem with voter fraud and want to do something about it.

People who recognize the problem with voter fraud and will do everything to make sure nothing is done about it.


C. people who know voter fraud is practically non-existent.


D. People who recognize the problem of blah people voting in large numbers and want to do something about it.
 
2012-08-17 09:52:59 AM  

AngryPanda: If they're going to require photo ID for voting, they should aggressively get people to obtain them, just like they do for vote registry. They also need to be free, because it's kinda farked up that you'd essentially be making people pay to vote in America.


Making people pay to vote in America isn't just "kinda farked up", it's explicitly unconstitutional.
 
2012-08-17 09:53:22 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: I was really let down that out state supreme court upheld this bullshiat.

There are appeals at the next level going on, and I'm hoping there's at least an injunction before November.

The thing that really burns my ass in this is that in the most recent case, the Commonwealth stipulated that they had no proof that there had been any voter fraud, and the supremes still upheld the law.


Person a goes and votes as person b.
Person b shows up and finds out someone voted in their name.
Person a is long gone, can't be found, no arrest made.
Liberals: see. There are no convictions of I. Person voter fraud!

Hard to convict someone on those grounds when you can't check for proof someone is violating the law.

As for your disappointment in the ruling, they are following ussc precedent, you know that thing liberals were attacking the rhythm for in the Aca case. You do remember that 2006 ruling, correct? The Penn law is way more lenient than the law in 2006, nursing homes can issue voter verification for their clients as an example.
 
2012-08-17 09:53:27 AM  
People who don't have photo ID in the 21st Century need to have their vote suppressed.
 
2012-08-17 09:54:27 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: The thing that really burns my ass in this is that in the most recent case, the Commonwealth stipulated that they had no proof that there had been any voter fraud, and the supremes still upheld the law.


Just because they wear a black robe and call themselves "impartial" doesn't mean that they're not still Republicans. Party first, no matter what. Our biggest GOP state supreme court judge literally called himself a "compliment" to the GOP governor's administration, and then choked another judge for having the audacity to disagree with him (and because she's a woman). He claimed she threw her neck into his hands. He wasn't prosecuted.
 
2012-08-17 09:55:00 AM  

MyRandomName: Dwight_Yeast: I was really let down that out state supreme court upheld this bullshiat.

There are appeals at the next level going on, and I'm hoping there's at least an injunction before November.

The thing that really burns my ass in this is that in the most recent case, the Commonwealth stipulated that they had no proof that there had been any voter fraud, and the supremes still upheld the law.

Person a goes and votes as person b.
Person b shows up and finds out someone voted in their name.
Person a is long gone, can't be found, no arrest made.
Liberals: see. There are no convictions of I. Person voter fraud!

Hard to convict someone on those grounds when you can't check for proof someone is violating the law.

As for your disappointment in the ruling, they are following ussc precedent, you know that thing liberals were attacking the rhythm for in the Aca case. You do remember that 2006 ruling, correct? The Penn law is way more lenient than the law in 2006, nursing homes can issue voter verification for their clients as an example.


The lack of evidence is the evidence!
 
2012-08-17 09:55:11 AM  
See? That photo ID didn't hurt a bit.
 
2012-08-17 09:55:19 AM  

Headso: MyRandomName: Headso: there are "thousands of Ms. Applewhites out there who still don't have ID. It would be nice if PennDot relaxed the rules for all of them."

Just keep suing states that have these disenfranchisement laws until they are bankrupt.

Just like a liberal. Completely ignore supreme court precedent if you don't agree with it. Act like a 2 year old until you get your way. Such children.

We all know the supreme court is always right all the time even when they turn over old decisions and the need for civil disobedience has never been necessary in the history of the US.


2006 is so old. I'm sure we have a whole new batch of justices since that 6-3 decision. Grow up. Your side lost in court yet you continue to perpetuate the same losing argument. It wasn't even a 5-4 decision.
 
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