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(Joystiq)   Rebellion sues Stardock for using the word "Rebellion" in the title of the latest Sins of a Solar Empire expansion on the grounds that it may confuse gamers into thinking Rebellion made a good game   (joystiq.com) divider line 78
    More: Stupid, Sins of a Solar Empire, rebellions, Stardock, gamers, Rebellion sues  
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1320 clicks; posted to Geek » on 17 Aug 2012 at 10:44 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-17 08:53:04 AM
I'd never heard of Rebellion studios before. Now I have. Now we know the reason for this stupid ass lawsuit.
 
2012-08-17 09:13:00 AM
how is 'sins of a solar empire'? should I go get a copy?
 
2012-08-17 09:18:50 AM
That's patently untrue. If I believed Rebellion Studios made 'Sins' (or the expansion), then I wouldn't touch it. Their Aliens vs. Predator game was weak as hell. The old PC ones still blow it out of the water.
 
2012-08-17 10:54:15 AM

Weaver95: how is 'sins of a solar empire'? should I go get a copy?


Yes. It is awesomesauce. Even with some age on it, there's not a space-based RTS out there that can touch it.
 
2012-08-17 10:57:39 AM
1.) Create a company with a very common word for its name
2.) ???
3.) Wait for someone to use the common word in the name of a product
4.) Sue
5.) Profit
 
2012-08-17 10:57:56 AM

Weaver95: how is 'sins of a solar empire'? should I go get a copy?


It's decent, but it isn't as addictive as Galactic Civilizations 2. There's a lot of depth to Sins, though, and I've heard it gets better as you get more immersed.
 
2012-08-17 11:04:05 AM

Weaver95: how is 'sins of a solar empire'? should I go get a copy?


It is good, I have to say. The units are good and the fact that you can have capital ships that upgrade with experience is great. It does have it's faults though, you expand your empire by going to another planet/asteroid and capturing it, where you upgrade it's gravity well with certain defenses and whatnot. However, this means that all of the fighting is done in these bubbles pretty much, where you'll essentially throw your army of ships into one tightly constrained area and slug it out. There's no real defensive strategy except to find a planet that has a limited number of entry/exit points (phase lanes), build a bunch of defensive structures and use it to fall back to defend there. Later on you can upgrade your tech to not need those phase lanes anymore, yee haw, big game changer. There's a hard limit on how many ships you can have too, so in games with larger maps you can really wind up just chasing each other's armies around the board.

I want to sue Stardock for putting out SOASE: Rebellion and making it seem like it was going to be a sequel but all it is is a glorified expansion: Three new factions which are splinter groups of the three from the original game, a titan-class capital ship, and some new kinds of diplomacy. I was very disappointed honestly. Although, if you haven't played the original, get the "sequel" and you'll enjoy it.
 
2012-08-17 11:08:27 AM

Spindle: I want to sue Stardock for putting out SOASE: Rebellion and making it seem like it was going to be a sequel but all it is is a glorified expansion: Three new factions which are splinter groups of the three from the original game, a titan-class capital ship, and some new kinds of diplomacy. I was very disappointed honestly. Although, if you haven't played the original, get the "sequel" and you'll enjoy it.


I feared it would end up as this. Sins is kind of like Civ V for me, i'll keep a game running by myself for a while. I like to get a huge galaxy and set out to conquer it by having everyone gleefully join the light of unity. When playing with my friends, they really don't like their citizens being brainwashed into my slaves.

/unity
//UNITY
 
2012-08-17 11:11:41 AM

Spindle: Although, if you haven't played the original, get the "sequel" and you'll enjoy it.


Seriously. If I am interested in this game ... should I skip the original and go directly to the 'sequel'?
 
2012-08-17 11:16:53 AM

Farking Canuck: Spindle: Although, if you haven't played the original, get the "sequel" and you'll enjoy it.

Seriously. If I am interested in this game ... should I skip the original and go directly to the 'sequel'?


Rebellion? Only if you're really interested in the additional factions. You should definitely pick up the expansion that added starbases, though.
 
2012-08-17 11:16:55 AM

Farking Canuck: Spindle: Although, if you haven't played the original, get the "sequel" and you'll enjoy it.

Seriously. If I am interested in this game ... should I skip the original and go directly to the 'sequel'?


Yes, Rebellion has all the features of the original and it's expansions, so it's a really good deal.
 
2012-08-17 11:33:06 AM
www.sztab.com
 
2012-08-17 11:37:54 AM

Farking Canuck: eriously. If I am interested in this game ... should I skip the original and go directly to the 'sequel'?


YES! YES! YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESY ESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYE SYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESY ESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYE SYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESY ESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYE SYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES
 
2012-08-17 11:41:34 AM
Well, time for me to reinstall another game and then not play it
 
2012-08-17 11:42:28 AM

Weaver95: how is 'sins of a solar empire'? should I go get a copy?


It's not too bad. I actually only bought it as a knee-jerk reaction to Stardock's Customer Bill of Rights (which is pretty awesome), and when I played the game itself, I was like, "This is fun, but I prefer GalCiv 2". YMMV, of course. It's a lot more combat-focused that GalCiv 2. It's a game of fleets, basically, where GalCiv is a game of empires.
 
2012-08-17 11:46:16 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: [www.sztab.com image 640x480]


Is that the same as this?

images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-08-17 11:46:36 AM
For the people who think this is stupid, in order to maintain a trademark, you need to affirmatively defend it. It's not like copyright where your work automatically has a copyright from the moment you create it until what is effectively forever (amusingly, there were studio executives who wanted copyright term to be "forever minus one day" to circumvent the Constitutional requirement that copyright be temporary).

To have a trademark, you have to use it and you have to affirmatively defend it. It's like the Elder Scrolls / Minecraft thing. Your lawyers have to go through the stupid lawyer motions.
 
2012-08-17 11:48:18 AM
My favorite part of SINS: Rebellion is playing as the loyalist Vasari faction. They have an empire tree that allows you to do away with Capital planets altogether and an option to destroy planets completely to gain massive resources. I am currently leaving a swath of destruction behind me in a huge multi-star galaxy and it is lots of fun.
 
2012-08-17 11:59:36 AM
I was just reading up on SoaSE. It says there is no single-player campaign.

Is it strictly multi-player or is it like Civ where you have a sandbox map to exploit?

Are the victory conditions strictly domination?

Is it on Steam?
 
2012-08-17 12:09:42 PM
You get to play in a sandbox like other RTS games. There's just no structured, storyline-driven campaign.

There are several different victory conditions available, but I usually turn everything off to get the longest possible game.

No clue if it's no Steam. It is available through the GameStop client (formerly Impulse; formerly Stardock).
 
2012-08-17 12:09:46 PM

cgraves67: I was just reading up on SoaSE. It says there is no single-player campaign.

Is it strictly multi-player or is it like Civ where you have a sandbox map to exploit?

Are the victory conditions strictly domination?

Is it on Steam?


It is on steam. There is no story driven campaign, think Civilization single player.

There are multiple victory conditions. The diplomacy is actually very deep, even in single player. You even have specialized envoy ships that grant bonuses to the gravity well they're in while they build reputation with that faction. As you ramp up reputation you get access to resource pacts, mutual defense pacts, intel pacts. You can put up bounties for other players.

it's a really great game.
 
2012-08-17 12:12:30 PM

Levarien: cgraves67: I was just reading up on SoaSE. It says there is no single-player campaign.

Is it strictly multi-player or is it like Civ where you have a sandbox map to exploit?

Are the victory conditions strictly domination?

Is it on Steam?

It is on steam. There is no story driven campaign, think Civilization single player.

There are multiple victory conditions. The diplomacy is actually very deep, even in single player. You even have specialized envoy ships that grant bonuses to the gravity well they're in while they build reputation with that faction. As you ramp up reputation you get access to resource pacts, mutual defense pacts, intel pacts. You can put up bounties for other players.

it's a really great game.


Sounds interesting. I may pick it up from Steam when G&K starts getting a bit stale.
 
2012-08-17 12:14:52 PM

cgraves67: Levarien: cgraves67: I was just reading up on SoaSE. It says there is no single-player campaign.

Is it strictly multi-player or is it like Civ where you have a sandbox map to exploit?

Are the victory conditions strictly domination?

Is it on Steam?

It is on steam. There is no story driven campaign, think Civilization single player.

There are multiple victory conditions. The diplomacy is actually very deep, even in single player. You even have specialized envoy ships that grant bonuses to the gravity well they're in while they build reputation with that faction. As you ramp up reputation you get access to resource pacts, mutual defense pacts, intel pacts. You can put up bounties for other players.

it's a really great game.

Sounds interesting. I may pick it up from Steam when G&K starts getting a bit stale.


It's definitely worth the price of admission, even at full price. It's got that "1 more turn" feeling even though it's real time. I end up saying, "1 more gravity well" at 2am.
 
2012-08-17 12:19:47 PM
I loved the gameplay, but I was really disappointed by the lack of a story-driven campaign or more depth to the factions and maps than a basic description in the manual.

I get that they're going for the whole, early 90s 4X game feel, but it's not the 90s anymore. Games can deliver more than a floppy disk's worth of content. I'll just play Master of Orion if I'm looking for Master of Orion.

/god the Advent ships are pretty though
//LAZORZZZ!!!
 
2012-08-17 12:36:56 PM

Caelistis: Farking Canuck: eriously. If I am interested in this game ... should I skip the original and go directly to the 'sequel'?

YES! YES! YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESY ESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYE SYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESY ESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYE SYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESY ESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYE SYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES


Hmm I can't make up my mind. Damn it I hate ambiguous responses.
 
2012-08-17 12:49:49 PM

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: /god the Advent ships are pretty though


andrewhemphill.files.wordpress.com

Swarm them my drone fighters...SWARM.

Advent Halcyon Carrier FTW.

Especially if you load out it's hangers with bombers you can be a real bastard against enemy capital ships (especially with that 60 drone swarm ultimate).

As a tip to new players, most of the time combat is about setting yourself up for the situation you are heading in to. Recon is your friend, know before you charge blindly into a new system. Your fighters will mostly do their own thing but you need to make sure you have a counter to their counter for your counter's original counter.
 
2012-08-17 12:51:43 PM
Homeworld needs a modern sequel.
 
2012-08-17 12:56:31 PM

Epicedion: Homeworld needs a modern sequel.


It's getting one. From Relic.
 
2012-08-17 01:01:12 PM

Caelistis: It's getting one. From Relic.


0.tqn.com
 
2012-08-17 01:03:07 PM

Caelistis: Epicedion: Homeworld needs a modern sequel.

It's getting one. From Relic.


Do you have a current article about it? Last i can find is Relic hinting at a Homeworld sequel in 2008 and 2011, and what looks like a failed petition for Homeworld 3 from last year? As much as i love Sins, Homeworld is in a class of it's own.
 
2012-08-17 01:03:33 PM

Farking Canuck: Spindle: Although, if you haven't played the original, get the "sequel" and you'll enjoy it.

Seriously. If I am interested in this game ... should I skip the original and go directly to the 'sequel'?


i'm thinking i'll just bite the bullet and get Rebellion. its sounding like this is a pretty decent game.
 
2012-08-17 01:11:59 PM

meanmutton: To have a trademark, you have to use it and you have to affirmatively defend it. It's like the Elder Scrolls / Minecraft thing. Your lawyers have to go through the stupid lawyer motions.


While this is true. Choosing a common word as your trademark is setting yourself up to have to be a dick.

This is not like Xerox or Kleenex who's trademarks have become common words because of their success. This company chose a common word as their name and is now going after people who use it.
 
2012-08-17 01:22:42 PM

Weaver95: Farking Canuck: Spindle: Although, if you haven't played the original, get the "sequel" and you'll enjoy it.

Seriously. If I am interested in this game ... should I skip the original and go directly to the 'sequel'?

i'm thinking i'll just bite the bullet and get Rebellion. its sounding like this is a pretty decent game.


Stardock in general is good game play but nothing ground breaking in game experience. Pretty graphics, they don't crash, they're robust. The three issues are:

1. The AI is moronic.
2. The fleet caps are annoying small if you like to build massive empires. Actually the concept of fleet cap is stupid. You take over 6 more planets and can't build any more ships. Every time you grab a planet you should get a bump, you don't.
3. Can only run on one core and lags up on long games.

You can correct #2 by modding some files. Just pop open the file and change your caps. The downside is this makes it even harder for the AI since it has no idea how to handle the larger fleet size. Number 1 and Number 3 are just problems.

Overall I feel like the entire Sins franchise is intended for multi player matches that don't go beyond a couple hours or so length. That is where the engine shines with things cinematic mode for the battles and the like. As the game stretches on it bogs down (and can't make use of the resources on your machine since it can't use multiple cores) and the AI just keep shooting itself in its foot.

It's a remake of Imperium Galatica II with better visual candy and some other changes, but at the end of the day it is 90% the IG2 game experience and nothing you haven't play before. If you've found yourself wanting that kind of game, Sins is a good purchase. If had no specific desire for that I'd keep the money, you aren't missing anything revolutionary.

/own it
//I like to play it on long flights to Asia as it is a fun little time sink but that is about the only time I play it
/supposedly the next Sins will have a new engine and all that. I'm hoping Stardock does more than just keep cloning older 4x RTS space games now that they have a brand name in Sins and money from all its sales. Otherwise it is going to feel like the Madden of space sims, where all you get is improved graphics and new names on the ships.
 
2012-08-17 01:38:14 PM

Weaver95: Farking Canuck: Spindle: Although, if you haven't played the original, get the "sequel" and you'll enjoy it.

Seriously. If I am interested in this game ... should I skip the original and go directly to the 'sequel'?

i'm thinking i'll just bite the bullet and get Rebellion. its sounding like this is a pretty decent game.


It is but you have to like RTS. I had heard about it for years and picked it up for 5 bucks at half priced books cause I thought it was a bit less RTS and a bit more like civilization. Wrong, not only is it a pure (albiet cool) RTS its got a pretty dense learning curve, one that I was unable to penetrate.

Then again I suck at RTS's and never had the patience for them.

I picked up Galatic Civilization 2 and realized that was the game I was looking for. Its a fricken blast.
 
2012-08-17 01:41:34 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: [www.sztab.com image 640x480]


Glad to see you Empire loaded.

I will entire the day I die likely find a way to get Rebellion and RebEd working on every laptop I own. Also Lucas Arts, if you made quality remarks of SW:Rebellion and the X-Wing/TIE series you would make so much money it isn't even funny. Why do you not do this?

/no that little RTS game with the weird criminal faction does not count as a quality remake of Rebellion
 
2012-08-17 01:49:32 PM

Shakes999: Weaver95: Farking Canuck: Spindle: Although, if you haven't played the original, get the "sequel" and you'll enjoy it.

Seriously. If I am interested in this game ... should I skip the original and go directly to the 'sequel'?

i'm thinking i'll just bite the bullet and get Rebellion. its sounding like this is a pretty decent game.

It is but you have to like RTS. I had heard about it for years and picked it up for 5 bucks at half priced books cause I thought it was a bit less RTS and a bit more like civilization. Wrong, not only is it a pure (albiet cool) RTS its got a pretty dense learning curve, one that I was unable to penetrate.

Then again I suck at RTS's and never had the patience for them.

I picked up Galatic Civilization 2 and realized that was the game I was looking for. Its a fricken blast.


...then I shall investigate Galactic Civ 2.
 
2012-08-17 01:55:57 PM

ha-ha-guy: Jim from Saint Paul: [www.sztab.com image 640x480]

Glad to see you Empire loaded.

I will entire the day I die likely find a way to get Rebellion and RebEd working on every laptop I own. Also Lucas Arts, if you made quality remarks of SW:Rebellion and the X-Wing/TIE series you would make so much money it isn't even funny. Why do you not do this?

/no that little RTS game with the weird criminal faction does not count as a quality remake of Rebellion


Glad to see some real Rebellion love in this thread. One of my most favorite strategy games of all time. I have revisited that game more than any other. Once you get past the old graphics the fun gameplay comes back through. Heavy on the micro but a ton of fun. I wish this game would have spawned sequels.
 
2012-08-17 01:59:50 PM
Does anyone know of more games of similar deep-strategy caliber to Stardock's Galactic Civilizations 2? I can't get enough of that game, but I'm looking for something with functional multiplayer. Thanks in advance.
 
2012-08-17 02:00:10 PM

Zmog: Jim from Saint Paul: [www.sztab.com image 640x480]

Is that the same as this?

[images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 250x320]


Yeppers.
 
2012-08-17 02:02:20 PM
For those of you who like Civ style games, I suggest you take a look at Endless Space. It's pretty fun. More fun than it has any right to be.

For a while, I found myself sitting around bored. "Maybe I'll play another game of Endless Space... Eh... I'm kinda bored of it..."

/One more turn...
//Just one more turn...
///Is that the sun coming up?!
////One more turn...
 
2012-08-17 02:05:24 PM

Giskard1708: Does anyone know of more games of similar deep-strategy caliber to Stardock's Galactic Civilizations 2? I can't get enough of that game, but I'm looking for something with functional multiplayer. Thanks in advance.


Like the above poster Endless Space is the way to go. Great indie developer. Game is still evolving and being worked on. Great UI, good gameplay, functional multiplayer. Varied sizes of galaxies. Custom factions. Custom ship designs. I can't say enough about it. It is just a great Space Conquest game in the Civ style. It is simultaneous turn-based. Combat is in stages and you play modifier cards on each stage.
 
2012-08-17 02:06:39 PM

Giskard1708: Does anyone know of more games of similar deep-strategy caliber to Stardock's Galactic Civilizations 2? I can't get enough of that game, but I'm looking for something with functional multiplayer. Thanks in advance.


Sword of the Stars II was supposed to be that game, but it was a total disaster. They may have patched it into something decent now. As it stands there really isn't anything on the market right now.

Endless Space appears to have some potential in that direction (http://endless-space.amplitude-studios.com/) but it is in Alpha and pretty vanilla so far (three races: one with missiles, one with lasers, one with rail guns). It is RTS, but I figure I'll see where it is in a year, so far it doesn't have anything that makes me want to buy it.
 
2012-08-17 02:10:06 PM
Has anyone played Legends of Pegasus? It is supposed to be a direct competitor to Sins and was released last week, I think.
 
2012-08-17 02:11:04 PM

ha-ha-guy: Giskard1708: Does anyone know of more games of similar deep-strategy caliber to Stardock's Galactic Civilizations 2? I can't get enough of that game, but I'm looking for something with functional multiplayer. Thanks in advance.

Sword of the Stars II was supposed to be that game, but it was a total disaster. They may have patched it into something decent now. As it stands there really isn't anything on the market right now.

Endless Space appears to have some potential in that direction (http://endless-space.amplitude-studios.com/) but it is in Alpha and pretty vanilla so far (three races: one with missiles, one with lasers, one with rail guns). It is RTS, but I figure I'll see where it is in a year, so far it doesn't have anything that makes me want to buy it.


Ehh no Endless Space is out and very functional, also it is turn based.
 
2012-08-17 02:17:27 PM
Dear Rebellion,

Your games suck huge cock and have almost become as synonymous with shiatty games as LJN. Please stop trying to smear your shiatty hands all over good game studios such as Stardock in a desperate bid to get EA to notice your pathetic "game studio" before you go completely bankrupt. Shut the fark up and fade into obscurity like a bad video game company should.

Eat shiat and die,
Mooseyfate
 
2012-08-17 02:17:59 PM

Bleyo: Has anyone played Legends of Pegasus? It is supposed to be a direct competitor to Sins and was released last week, I think.


I've also been wondering about Legends of Pegasus and am curious to hear about it. Love me some Sins and Galactic Civ and haven't had the time to get into Endless Space, yet.
 
2012-08-17 02:32:19 PM

ha-ha-guy: 2. The fleet caps are annoying small if you like to build massive empires. Actually the concept of fleet cap is stupid. You take over 6 more planets and can't build any more ships. Every time you grab a planet you should get a bump, you don't.


They don't automatically increase your fleet caps because you have to spend the resources on the increased command points to increase your fleet caps. The trade off is that an increased fleet cap costs more credits to keep going, so you need more planets to support it tax wise. If you keep your fleet cap low, you'll have higher income and can replace any lost ships quickly. If you increase the fleet cap, you can maintain a larger fleet, but your income is slower, and any losses will take longer to replace. if you increase the cap too much, you'll be losing money and are totally screwed.

It's actually a pretty good bit of balance where you can't just go for a giant fleet to crush your opponents right away, because your empire won't be large enough to support it.

/ Anyone else usually play with pirates off? While I find the ability to bribe the pirates to attack someone else amusing, after a while they just get annoying. I only wish that turning them off also removed their base from the map.
// Also, I love firing my giant space cannon at a planet several stars away.
 
2012-08-17 02:34:24 PM

Caelistis: It's getting one. From Relic.


Citation Needed.
 
2012-08-17 02:38:10 PM

pjfry: Bleyo: Has anyone played Legends of Pegasus? It is supposed to be a direct competitor to Sins and was released last week, I think.

I've also been wondering about Legends of Pegasus and am curious to hear about it. Love me some Sins and Galactic Civ and haven't had the time to get into Endless Space, yet.


I messed around with Endless Space a little bit. I did a quick game on easy difficulty just to see what it was about. It looks like it can get pretty complex with the ship customization and battle stages, but I just clicked the "Optimize ship" button and let the AI do the ship battles. Making a custom empire also seems like it could be neat if I put some time into it.

From what I actually did play, the heroes were pretty cool and the gameplay was on par with other turn based space strategy games. I'd have to get deeper into the customization to give a real verdict though.
 
2012-08-17 02:45:25 PM

Barry McCackiner: ha-ha-guy: Giskard1708: Does anyone know of more games of similar deep-strategy caliber to Stardock's Galactic Civilizations 2? I can't get enough of that game, but I'm looking for something with functional multiplayer. Thanks in advance.

Sword of the Stars II was supposed to be that game, but it was a total disaster. They may have patched it into something decent now. As it stands there really isn't anything on the market right now.

Endless Space appears to have some potential in that direction (http://endless-space.amplitude-studios.com/) but it is in Alpha and pretty vanilla so far (three races: one with missiles, one with lasers, one with rail guns). It is RTS, but I figure I'll see where it is in a year, so far it doesn't have anything that makes me want to buy it.

Ehh no Endless Space is out and very functional, also it is turn based.


Aren't turns simultaneous? I recall seeing a video of that on Youtube and to me at least they gave it a very RTS feel since things resolve at the same time for that turn. As for Alpha, when I go to their progress site , Alpha is the only one in white text which to says it is the one in progress or the only one completed. If it is 1.0 by now, they need to update that site.

Rising_Zan_Samurai_Gunman: ha-ha-guy: 2. The fleet caps are annoying small if you like to build massive empires. Actually the concept of fleet cap is stupid. You take over 6 more planets and can't build any more ships. Every time you grab a planet you should get a bump, you don't.

They don't automatically increase your fleet caps because you have to spend the resources on the increased command points to increase your fleet caps. The trade off is that an increased fleet cap costs more credits to keep going, so you need more planets to support it tax wise. If you keep your fleet cap low, you'll have higher income and can replace any lost ships quickly. If you increase the fleet cap, you can maintain a larger fleet, but your income is slower, and any losses will take longer to replace. if you increase the cap too much, you'll be losing money and are totally screwed.

It's actually a pretty good bit of balance where you can't just go for a giant fleet to crush your opponents right away, because your empire won't be large enough to support it.

/ Anyone else usually play with pirates off? While I find the ability to bribe the pirates to attack someone else amusing, after a while they just get annoying. I only wish that turning them off also removed their base from the map.
// Also, I love firing my giant space cannon at a planet several stars away.


That's not the point. I'm fine with more command points taking a larger chunk of my income for logistic costs. The problem is at 12 planets (plus a couple asteroid systems, etc) and playing as Terran Loyalist I can easily be at max command points and full fleet. Refineries, economic starbases, trade ports give me a massive industrial base that early on. I can also easily rebuild that fleet. As I move on to conquer the other 70 planets on the map I can't increase my fleet despite taking those planets over and building industry on them. Rebellion needs two formulas where:

Command Point Research and Num Planets determine Max Fleet Size
Max Fleet Size and Command Points determine Logistic Load

So if I'm at max command points, have 0 spare ones, and take a planet and develop it, I should get some more room to build ships. By the same token when I build those ships, the percentage of income I spend to support my fleet should spike when I build those ships.

If I have 50 planets and my enemy has 25, I should be able to massively outbuild him, but Rebellions caps ensure I'm fighting battles where the guy with 25 has a force advantage since we have the same size fleet and he has defensive resources in his system. So every time it becomes a war of attrition where I just spam corvettes into his system and try to drain his Empire's resources. I should be able to drop a fleet 2x the size of his and win a decisive battle, but the game prevents that.
 
2012-08-17 02:51:37 PM

pjfry: Bleyo: Has anyone played Legends of Pegasus? It is supposed to be a direct competitor to Sins and was released last week, I think.

I've also been wondering about Legends of Pegasus and am curious to hear about it. Love me some Sins and Galactic Civ and haven't had the time to get into Endless Space, yet.


Their bug report thread was posted on the 9th and is already at 11 pages.
http://forum.kalypsomedia.com/showthread.php?tid=15733

It also already prompted one patch. The developers seem responsive, but I might wait for the game to mature a bit. It's on Steam so it would be nice the developer kick out a free to play weekend or something for it before asking us to drop $40 on it.
 
2012-08-17 03:46:30 PM
dammit. galactic civ II is super addictive! damn you fark! damn you!

*shakes tiny fist*
 
2012-08-17 03:52:44 PM

wmoonfox: Weaver95: how is 'sins of a solar empire'? should I go get a copy?

Yes. It is awesomesauce. Even with some age on it, there's not a space-based RTS out there that can touch it.


Homeworld, and Homeworld 2 would like a moment of your time sir.
 
2012-08-17 04:05:14 PM

ha-ha-guy: Aren't turns simultaneous? I recall seeing a video of that on Youtube and to me at least they gave it a very RTS feel since things resolve at the same time for that turn. As for Alpha, when I go to their progress site , Alpha is the only one in white text which to says it is the one in progress or the only one completed. If it is 1.0 by now, they need to update that site.


Maybe they are calling what they have Alpha. I'm not sure. I know that it has enough depth currently to be on par with a civ 2 or 3. It could use more, but it is a solid, complete game experience imo.

Turns do resolve simultaneously so I suppose there is some element of real time. But at its heart is is basically just Civilization in space with more control over combat and Heroes thrown in for good measure.

I believe they did it this way to simplify the differences between multi and single player. Where Civ has one mode for single and another for Multi, ES just has the one mode so there is no difference if it is human or not.

Anyways, if you are in this thread and you like strategy games of this sort you are doing yourself an injustice by not playing Endless Space. The developers for this game are legit and they harken back to the good ole' days of PC gaming.
 
2012-08-17 04:16:42 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: [www.sztab.com image 640x480]


i came for this.

i used to love this game. it would still play on my last PC but won't play anymore.
 
2012-08-17 04:16:48 PM
*quietly returns to his Stars! games.
 
2012-08-17 04:20:37 PM

Strategeryz0r: Homeworld, and Homeworld 2 would like a moment of your time sir.


Awesome games in their own right, but they lack the "island-hopping" and sprawl quality of Sins. There's something to be said for taking and holding territory versus dominating one static map after another.
 
2012-08-17 04:58:17 PM
I played Star Wars: Rebellion. It was not a good game.
 
2012-08-17 07:41:34 PM

wmoonfox: Strategeryz0r: Homeworld, and Homeworld 2 would like a moment of your time sir.

Awesome games in their own right, but they lack the "island-hopping" and sprawl quality of Sins. There's something to be said for taking and holding territory versus dominating one static map after another.


I either didn't have a good grasp of the game when I played it or I'm just terribly short-sighted when it comes to space domination, but I always found myself completely dwarfed by the opposing factions. The pirates didn't help, either. So pretty much once I made "first contact" it was the end of my game. I still loved playing it and I'd LOVE to play it again. Wonder if I still have that on my portable hard drive...
 
2012-08-17 07:47:11 PM

Rob_the_Irish_Bastard: My favorite part of SINS: Rebellion is playing as the loyalist Vasari faction. They have an empire tree that allows you to do away with Capital planets altogether and an option to destroy planets completely to gain massive resources. I am currently leaving a swath of destruction behind me in a huge multi-star galaxy and it is lots of fun.


It's a great feeling when you get to say "Fark this place!" and destroy your home-planet.
 
2012-08-17 07:54:41 PM

ha-ha-guy: Giskard1708: Does anyone know of more games of similar deep-strategy caliber to Stardock's Galactic Civilizations 2? I can't get enough of that game, but I'm looking for something with functional multiplayer. Thanks in advance.

Sword of the Stars II was supposed to be that game, but it was a total disaster. They may have patched it into something decent now. As it stands there really isn't anything on the market right now.

Endless Space appears to have some potential in that direction (http://endless-space.amplitude-studios.com/) but it is in Alpha and pretty vanilla so far (three races: one with missiles, one with lasers, one with rail guns). It is RTS, but I figure I'll see where it is in a year, so far it doesn't have anything that makes me want to buy it.


Re: SOTS 2, they've been continually patching it since the launch debacle, and it is apparently playable with 95% of the functionality there, but as of the last time I checked it was not "all clear".

You have to give Kerberos credit for keeping their word about fixing it, but after nine months or so of updates, I'm burning with curiosity to what the non-broken version they *planned* to release originally looked like
 
2012-08-17 07:56:52 PM

Weaver95: dammit. galactic civ II is super addictive! damn you fark! damn you!

*shakes tiny fist*


Sucker. Did you get the expansion by default, or just the base game?
 
2012-08-17 08:50:07 PM

ha-ha-guy: Jim from Saint Paul: [www.sztab.com image 640x480]

Glad to see you Empire loaded.

I will entire the day I die likely find a way to get Rebellion and RebEd working on every laptop I own. Also Lucas Arts, if you made quality remarks of SW:Rebellion and the X-Wing/TIE series you would make so much money it isn't even funny. Why do you not do this?

/no that little RTS game with the weird criminal faction does not count as a quality remake of Rebellion


I actually liked some of the empire and combat mechanics over Rebellion, but the 2D battle maps were retarded and I missed all the cool expanded universe ships from Rebellion. It, and any future Tie Fighter games, definitely need more of those.

In fact, I'd love to see a space sim Freelancer type game, sandbox-ish similar to GTA, where you choose to follow through an Empire, Rebellion, or Independent/pirate plot (perhaps even mix them to some limits), where the ships you're able to pilot depend on your progress through each plot line. An independent pilot couldn't fly an a-wing, for example, nor could a Rebellion player use a Tie Defender or command a fleet from a Star Destroyer.

So much potential for eye candy, but Star Wars games have been pretty shiatty lately.
 
2012-08-17 10:38:38 PM

stratagos: ha-ha-guy: Giskard1708: Does anyone know of more games of similar deep-strategy caliber to Stardock's Galactic Civilizations 2? I can't get enough of that game, but I'm looking for something with functional multiplayer. Thanks in advance.

Sword of the Stars II was supposed to be that game, but it was a total disaster. They may have patched it into something decent now. As it stands there really isn't anything on the market right now.

Endless Space appears to have some potential in that direction (http://endless-space.amplitude-studios.com/) but it is in Alpha and pretty vanilla so far (three races: one with missiles, one with lasers, one with rail guns). It is RTS, but I figure I'll see where it is in a year, so far it doesn't have anything that makes me want to buy it.

Re: SOTS 2, they've been continually patching it since the launch debacle, and it is apparently playable with 95% of the functionality there, but as of the last time I checked it was not "all clear".

You have to give Kerberos credit for keeping their word about fixing it, but after nine months or so of updates, I'm burning with curiosity to what the non-broken version they *planned* to release originally looked like


Heh, I"m playing SOTS II in the other window right now as we speak, cruising the internets during long battles, it is a blast. Just about everything is working, and Kerberos seems very dedicated to finishing it properly. I'll just say that I like space games, and I'm not playing any other space games. Yes, it was unplayable as released.
 
2012-08-17 11:26:58 PM
Phfft! This is better than all those.

thealteredartstore.com
 
2012-08-17 11:42:10 PM

Weaver95: how is 'sins of a solar empire'? should I go get a copy?


Do you like RTS's Sins is the ultimate in them, It's drawbacks are Games take a long time. and there is no campaign mode. Rebellion has a crap load of victory conditions, if you turn them all on, its a crazy game trying to defend against all the differening possiblities.

I play with 2 others, and games last around 4 hours or so. The AI's go from EASY to beat to impossible.
 
2012-08-17 11:46:36 PM

Farking Canuck: Spindle: Although, if you haven't played the original, get the "sequel" and you'll enjoy it.

Seriously. If I am interested in this game ... should I skip the original and go directly to the 'sequel'?


You can buy the original with 2 expansions for $10.00, then use your account to get $10.00 off rebellion. sooo Both maybe? Seriously though, just pick up rebellion, it has everything the first 1 did, and ads more depth, more ships, more victory conditions. and the AI got ALOT better(aka they cheat more)
 
2012-08-17 11:49:50 PM

wmoonfox: You get to play in a sandbox like other RTS games. There's just no structured, storyline-driven campaign.

There are several different victory conditions available, but I usually turn everything off to get the longest possible game.

No clue if it's no Steam. It is available through the GameStop client (formerly Impulse; formerly Stardock).


available on both.
 
2012-08-17 11:52:44 PM

Epicedion: Homeworld needs a modern sequel.


And movement needs to not suck.
 
2012-08-18 12:15:42 AM

Saberus Terras: *quietly returns to his Stars! games.


CRAP! I used to love that little game. Now I'm going to have to dig through some boxes and find the disc again.
 
2012-08-18 02:44:18 AM

Honest Bender: For those of you who like Civ style games, I suggest you take a look at Endless Space. It's pretty fun. More fun than it has any right to be.

For a while, I found myself sitting around bored. "Maybe I'll play another game of Endless Space... Eh... I'm kinda bored of it..."

/One more turn...
//Just one more turn...
///Is that the sun coming up?!
////One more turn...


Endless Space is pretty awesome. I really like how they handled the combat. It's maybe not devastatingly awesome, but it's a nice new take, and leaves you feeling more like an admiral and less like a squadron commander. "Here are your rules of engagement, boys. Go get 'em."
 
2012-08-18 09:35:47 AM

Jgok: Saberus Terras: *quietly returns to his Stars! games.

CRAP! I used to love that little game. Now I'm going to have to dig through some boxes and find the disc again.


Almost a cobweb... but we're still here. It does not run on 64 bit Windows, sorry.
 
2012-08-18 10:02:14 AM

starsrift: Honest Bender: For those of you who like Civ style games, I suggest you take a look at Endless Space. It's pretty fun. More fun than it has any right to be.

For a while, I found myself sitting around bored. "Maybe I'll play another game of Endless Space... Eh... I'm kinda bored of it..."

/One more turn...
//Just one more turn...
///Is that the sun coming up?!
////One more turn...

Endless Space is pretty awesome. I really like how they handled the combat. It's maybe not devastatingly awesome, but it's a nice new take, and leaves you feeling more like an admiral and less like a squadron commander. "Here are your rules of engagement, boys. Go get 'em."


I think I suck at the game. Even playing it on the default difficulty - I think it's one step above 'easy'? - by the time I'm done colonizing and building up my systems to my preference (I'm usually a builder player in 4x games), the enemy vastly, vastly outnumbers and outguns my fleets. In my last game, it took me about 15 turns to build a full fleet (3x dreadnaughts and a cruiser, about half my systems could a fleet that quickly) of ~600 military strength. Enemy planets each had 10+, usually 15+ fleets, each of 5000+ military power, and my fleets could never survive a single encounter with one of their fleets, let alone survive for more than one.

I'm usually halfway through the civ, colonization, and science/industry trees before I start getting any military techs, because I never needed them before I try to go on the offensive. But I don't understand how the AI can not only keep pace with my income and research while simultaneously supporting such massive fleets, at such a low difficulty level.

In the end, I think I prefer GalCiv2 over Endless Space. GC2 definitely needs polishing (especially in terms of unit movement on the galaxy map) and the humour in its science blurbs are terrible, but at least I'm not completely outclassed on even a normal difficulty level. I expect that's because of GC2's terrible AI, but whatever, that's the nature of appearances.
 
2012-08-18 10:24:17 AM

Niveras: I'm usually halfway through the civ, colonization, and science/industry trees before I start getting any military techs, because I never needed them before I try to go on the offensive. But I don't understand how the AI can not only keep pace with my income and research while simultaneously supporting such massive fleets, at such a low difficulty level.


What race do you play?

They might be expanding faster than you, fyi. If they colonize more systems/planets and get their population up, also depending on racial bonuses, it's not too unlikely that they could out pace you in FIDS while also fielding more ships. The equation always balances out, though. If they're kicking your ass in industry/science production AND have a way larger fleet than you... they are probably nearly broke and their systems likely don't have much in the way of improvements. Sweep the leg.

Try investing more in military research earlier on, I guess. I usually ride out the first half of the game diplomatically. I make nice with everyone I can, bribe them, etc. Usually by the middle of the game the AI has started to get a bit leery of my vast empire. That starts to tank my relationships. When people start canceling trade agreements with me, I know it's time to start researching bigger guns. By that point, I can just fly up the research tree in a few turns, then pump out 2-3 fleets in a couple of turns.

Keep in mind that you don't have to match them fleet for fleet. One fleet is enough to lock down a system. And don't get dazzled by the fleet strength numbers. Some fleets are better than others. Try to get at least 6 missile defenders, preferably 8, ideally 12 on each ship. Stack your defenses 70/30 in regards to gun/laser defense (70% towards what the enemy mainly uses). You'll find that fleet strength isn't as much of an issue when they can't seem to hurt you. And missiles HURT.
 
2012-08-18 10:45:33 AM

Niveras: I think I suck at [Endless Space]. Even playing it on the default difficulty - I think it's one step above 'easy'? - by the time I'm done colonizing and building up my systems to my preference (I'm usually a builder player in 4x games), the enemy vastly, vastly outnumbers and outguns my fleets. In my last game, it took me about 15 turns to build a full fleet (3x dreadnaughts and a cruiser, about half my systems could a fleet that quickly) of ~600 military strength. Enemy planets each had 10+, usually 15+ fleets, each of 5000+ military power, and my fleets could never survive a single encounter with one of their fleets, let alone survive for more than one.

I'm usually halfway through the civ, colonization, and science/industry trees before I start getting any military techs, because I never needed them before I try to go on the offensive. But I don't understand how the AI can not only keep pace with my income and research while simultaneously supporting such massive fleets, at such a low difficulty level...


The key seems to be expand early, expand often. Especially try to get the chokepoints to the sectors/constellations. Remember you only have to spend one colonization ship per system, you can colonize the other planets from an owned planet. Other than that, that's my own strat - ignore the military tree until someone starts a war, and it works the AI over pretty hard.
 
2012-08-18 11:21:27 AM
I normally play sowers, that 'productions converts to food' race, customized slightly from the default. I'll to be more aggressive in my expansion, choosing instead to expand toward enemy empires and grab choke points before expanding along the 'safe' arms that's behind my capital system, relative to the galaxy center. My vague memory is that by the time I start expanding out that way they've already been grabbed, but if I prioritize it I should get them first.

FYI I made a typo on my last post, obviously my fleets aren't 600 strength when I have dreadnoughts and the enemy's are 5000; I left out a zero there. I wondered about whether certain weapon types are more powerful than others but I never looked closely at it. The game feels so much like GalCiv 2, I figured points of a weapon types were largely interchangeable, and it is only a matter of what defenses are functional against the weapon that makes a difference. If they have other attributes than straight up 'strength' I'll look at that. I also tend to balance my offense and defense between the types and across each other (e.g. about 40% ship weight in weapons, 40% in defense, 20% in support/misc), but sounds like I need to specialize more there.

Welp. That icon is calling me...
 
Skr
2012-08-18 12:44:26 PM
Sins is decent enough, this lawsuit is bogus though. Can't say I got sucked into Sins as much as Moo/Moo2 or GalCiv2.

Lately when I need my space fix I boot up X3: Terran Conflict or Albion Prelude. They are... unforgiving.
 
2012-08-19 03:16:35 AM

Niveras: The game feels so much like GalCiv 2, I figured points of a weapon types were largely interchangeable, and it is only a matter of what defenses are functional against the weapon that makes a difference...


Pretty much.
And the AI pretty much only defends against one type, per race. In the early game (if you're playing on small galaxies), they stick with the guns for a long time, before branching out into missiles and beams.
 
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