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(ABC)   Non-verbal teen with autism was told not to use iPad during takeoff until the pilot stepped in and overruled the flight attendant. "Forcing her to turn it off akin to handcuffing a deaf person's hands to their chair" said her aide   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 281
    More: Asinine, iPads, U.S. Department of Transportation, Howard Dalal  
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13189 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Aug 2012 at 11:15 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-16 06:11:09 PM
Good on the pilot. And the flight attendant for checking with the pilot instead of blindly insisting on policy.
 
2012-08-16 08:29:44 PM
Selected quotes from TFA:

The trouble is, if Fleischmann can't use her iPad, she can't communicate. Because of autism, she cannot speak.

"I use the iPad like a prosthetic limb and not as a toy. I think that is what is blinding people on this issue."

Because the iPad is Carly's voice, it is paramount that she be able to use it, Dalal said. "If she was about to have a seizure, there is no way she could tell me without her iPad," he said.


So what's wrong with the device she used to communicate before the iPad was launched in 2010? Or was every day back then a roll of the dice, an adventure of whether she may or may not have a seizure while lacking the tools to communicate that fact?

shiat, if she knows when she's going to have a seizure while still retaining the motor control to operate a tablet computer, surely she'd be able to prod Dalal until he got the point?
 
2012-08-16 09:04:04 PM
Great. Now the terrorists will pretend to be autistic so they can read on airplanes during takeoff. THANKS FARTB0NGerrmagerd!!!
 
2012-08-16 09:12:43 PM

iron de havilland: Selected quotes from TFA:

The trouble is, if Fleischmann can't use her iPad, she can't communicate. Because of autism, she cannot speak.

"I use the iPad like a prosthetic limb and not as a toy. I think that is what is blinding people on this issue."

Because the iPad is Carly's voice, it is paramount that she be able to use it, Dalal said. "If she was about to have a seizure, there is no way she could tell me without her iPad," he said.

So what's wrong with the device she used to communicate before the iPad was launched in 2010? Or was every day back then a roll of the dice, an adventure of whether she may or may not have a seizure while lacking the tools to communicate that fact?

shiat, if she knows when she's going to have a seizure while still retaining the motor control to operate a tablet computer, surely she'd be able to prod Dalal until he got the point?


She probably used a small laptop.
 
2012-08-16 09:14:08 PM

iron de havilland: So what's wrong with the device she used to communicate before the iPad was launched in 2010?


I don't think they'd let her use her computer, either. Link
 
2012-08-16 09:30:25 PM
"Forcing her to turn it off akin to handcuffing a deaf person's hands to their chair"

...or taking a short nap, like a good third of the other passengers on the flight. But hey, why not go for the most absurd sensationalist comparison?
 
2012-08-16 09:34:21 PM

cmunic8r99: iron de havilland: So what's wrong with the device she used to communicate before the iPad was launched in 2010?

I don't think they'd let her use her computer, either. Link


Oh.

So this whole thing is about trying to sell a book?

/Carly's voice
//My arse
 
2012-08-16 09:44:05 PM
Did they fly Qantas?
 
2012-08-16 10:17:44 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Good on the pilot. And the flight attendant for checking with the pilot instead of blindly insisting on policy.


It sounds to me like the FA threw a fit and went to biatch to the pilot that some autistic girl wouldn't shut off her iPad and that's why they couldn't leave the gate, and the pilot told the FA to STFU and EABOD.
 
2012-08-16 10:20:19 PM

iron de havilland: So what's wrong with the device she used to communicate before the iPad was launched in 2010? Or was every day back then a roll of the dice, an adventure of whether she may or may not have a seizure while lacking the tools to communicate that fact?


For two years in elementary school my school did an experiment in mainstreaming where an autistic girl like this came and she could only speak through touching letters. But this was the 90s, so she just had a piece of laminated paper with the alphabet on it, and she touched the letters so quickly that I had no idea how the two aides with her could read what she was saying- I'm guessing a computer/iPad program helps with this.

But then because I'm a cynical bastard in years since I've wondered if she was actually speaking or if it was one of those aides just claiming they could read what that girl said cause I know that happens (the girl never seemed interested/connected with anything and was so disruptive she was always taken out of class, so I'm honestly not certain how with it she was). Anyone know how common this method of communication is for autistic people?
 
2012-08-16 10:26:36 PM
I call BS on knowing that you're going to have a seizure and being able to type "one finger at a time" and show the text to somebody who would know what to do.
 
2012-08-16 10:27:42 PM

Andromeda: iron de havilland: So what's wrong with the device she used to communicate before the iPad was launched in 2010? Or was every day back then a roll of the dice, an adventure of whether she may or may not have a seizure while lacking the tools to communicate that fact?

For two years in elementary school my school did an experiment in mainstreaming where an autistic girl like this came and she could only speak through touching letters. But this was the 90s, so she just had a piece of laminated paper with the alphabet on it, and she touched the letters so quickly that I had no idea how the two aides with her could read what she was saying- I'm guessing a computer/iPad program helps with this.

But then because I'm a cynical bastard in years since I've wondered if she was actually speaking or if it was one of those aides just claiming they could read what that girl said cause I know that happens (the girl never seemed interested/connected with anything and was so disruptive she was always taken out of class, so I'm honestly not certain how with it she was). Anyone know how common this method of communication is for autistic people?


Oh, are you talking about facilitated communication? That isn't real.
 
2012-08-16 10:36:47 PM
My mistake in thinking that people with disabilities wanted to be treated the same as everyone else. That applies to laws, rules, and regulations just as much as it does to freedoms, privileges, and accommodations. This girl doesn't want to be singled out because she's autistic, but she wants to be able to have rights that no one else on the plane has. Remind me again how this promotes equality for anyone.
 
2012-08-16 10:39:08 PM

ignite ice: My mistake in thinking that people with disabilities wanted to be treated the same as everyone else. That applies to laws, rules, and regulations just as much as it does to freedoms, privileges, and accommodations. This girl doesn't want to be singled out because she's autistic, but she wants to be able to have rights that no one else on the plane has. Remind me again how this promotes equality for anyone.


I see your point, but if everyone is allowed to use their computers or nooks or iPads during takeoff and landing, then they'll be reading books or answering e-mail or watching a movie.
 
2012-08-16 10:47:18 PM

gimmegimme: ignite ice: My mistake in thinking that people with disabilities wanted to be treated the same as everyone else. That applies to laws, rules, and regulations just as much as it does to freedoms, privileges, and accommodations. This girl doesn't want to be singled out because she's autistic, but she wants to be able to have rights that no one else on the plane has. Remind me again how this promotes equality for anyone.

I see your point, but if everyone is allowed to use their computers or nooks or iPads during takeoff and landing, then they'll be reading books or answering e-mail or watching a movie.


If you saw his point you wouldn't have typed the rest of that.
 
2012-08-16 10:58:33 PM

ignite ice: Remind me again how this promotes equality for anyone.


Can you point out how anyone else on the flight would be deprived of the means to communicate?

gimmegimme: Oh, are you talking about facilitated communication? That isn't real.


What he's describing wouldn't be facilitated communication since the student would do all the pointing on her own. The idea that those who can't speak are always intellectually deficient is one of the harder things to overcome not just in education but in general. And as long as the student is pointing to everyone on their own, then it's the student doing it all.
 
2012-08-16 10:58:49 PM

jaylectricity: gimmegimme: ignite ice: My mistake in thinking that people with disabilities wanted to be treated the same as everyone else. That applies to laws, rules, and regulations just as much as it does to freedoms, privileges, and accommodations. This girl doesn't want to be singled out because she's autistic, but she wants to be able to have rights that no one else on the plane has. Remind me again how this promotes equality for anyone.

I see your point, but if everyone is allowed to use their computers or nooks or iPads during takeoff and landing, then they'll be reading books or answering e-mail or watching a movie.

If you saw his point you wouldn't have typed the rest of that.


I was joking around. Who cares if people are reading their nook books during takeoff or landing?
 
2012-08-16 11:09:52 PM

gimmegimme: I was joking around. Who cares if people are reading their nook books during takeoff or landing?


Ok, I see the joke now. I should learn to read the whole thing a few times before responding to the first 10 words!
 
2012-08-16 11:20:30 PM
"Fleischmann suffers from Oral Motor Apraxia"

Sounds like she gives amazing blowjobs.
 
2012-08-16 11:21:31 PM
Was she flying to Vegas?
 
2012-08-16 11:21:44 PM
So before iPads, individuals with this disorder did not fly?
 
2012-08-16 11:23:43 PM

Andromeda: Anyone know how common this method of communication is for autistic people?


For non-verbal autistic folks many have used PECS.
 
2012-08-16 11:24:15 PM

Atomic Spunk: "Fleischmann suffers from Oral Motor Apraxia"

Sounds like she gives amazing blowjobs.


9.5/10
 
2012-08-16 11:24:54 PM

ignite ice: My mistake in thinking that people with disabilities wanted to be treated the same as everyone else. That applies to laws, rules, and regulations just as much as it does to freedoms, privileges, and accommodations. This girl doesn't want to be singled out because she's autistic, but she wants to be able to have rights that no one else on the plane has. Remind me again how this promotes equality for anyone.


I agree. Turn off the iPad, use a pad and pen.
The Flight Attendant was in the right.
The Pilot just wanted to get out of there, though.
I'm sorry the Flight Attendant didn't have the backup they
deserved to have for trying to enforce policy.
 
2012-08-16 11:25:09 PM
lh6.ggpht.com
 
2012-08-16 11:26:02 PM
Oh and they also use sign as well.
 
2012-08-16 11:26:09 PM

Karma Chameleon: So before iPads, individuals with this disorder did not fly?


They used more cumbersome electronic devices that would've presented the same problems. Chances are they've been incidents like this well before the iPad.
 
2012-08-16 11:29:04 PM

ignite ice: My mistake in thinking that people with disabilities wanted to be treated the same as everyone else. That applies to laws, rules, and regulations just as much as it does to freedoms, privileges, and accommodations. This girl doesn't want to be singled out because she's autistic, but she wants to be able to have rights that no one else on the plane has. Remind me again how this promotes equality for anyone.


media.tumblr.com

"I just want to fit in and be treated like everyone else, except specialer..."
 
2012-08-16 11:29:04 PM
Human rights this, human rights that, "Oh, I'm Human! Give me my Human Rights!" Humans getting rights makes me so mad. Like all Flight Attendants, I hate humans, and believe they should be afforded no rights. I don't have time, as a paying, compliant air-travel consumer, to pay for "humans" , and their "rights". Go back to magical "I-don't-have-to-do-what-the-Flight-Attendant-says"-land - especially if you're disabled and the commands involve strange thing. Strange, sexual things. Oh, yeah.
 
2012-08-16 11:30:31 PM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: ignite ice: My mistake in thinking that people with disabilities wanted to be treated the same as everyone else. That applies to laws, rules, and regulations just as much as it does to freedoms, privileges, and accommodations. This girl doesn't want to be singled out because she's autistic, but she wants to be able to have rights that no one else on the plane has. Remind me again how this promotes equality for anyone.

I agree. Turn off the iPad, use a pad and pen.
The Flight Attendant was in the right.
The Pilot just wanted to get out of there, though.
I'm sorry the Flight Attendant didn't have the backup they
deserved to have for trying to enforce policy.


Agreed. Policy is there for a reason. Even when there's no reason for the policy.
 
2012-08-16 11:30:57 PM
fark that pilot. Flight attendants doing exactly what their employer tells them to do. If you got a problem with it, don't fly with companies that maintain that policy. It's a free market baby.
 
2012-08-16 11:31:24 PM
I always thought it was odd that the TSA confiscates all liquids and sharp objects, but lets us keep our electronics that can bring the whole motherfarking plane down Die Hard style if we so much as text during faceoff.

Terrorists don't need to bring bombs on board. All they need is a pager.
 
2012-08-16 11:31:37 PM
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4014 - Cell Phones on Airplanes

Cell phones are perfectly safe on airplanes. So why can't we use them?

Link
 

tl;dr version, click to Listen.
 
2012-08-16 11:32:16 PM
Learn to farking write with pen and paper, lazy coont.

Autism doesn't involve not using your hands, I'm pretty sure.

Also, what's the need to communicate on a plane anyway? You can go on an entire flight without speaking to anyone but if you must, then all you need are 8 or so Flash Cards or pre-written sentences:

1: Fish, please.
2: Chicken, Please.
3: I have the tomato juice.
4: I'll have the orange Juice
5: Tea, please
6: Coffee, please
7: Pillow and Blankets, please.
8. Please Do Not Disturb. Thanks.
9: Hand Job, please.
10. The lady Stewardess
11. The Gay Man Steward
 
2012-08-16 11:34:34 PM
FTA: "Dalal, at Fleischmann's request, set the timer on her iPad to see, if she had in fact been forced to turn it off, how long she would have been unable to communicate. The time: 50 minutes."

What the fark are they trying to say here? What is this timer? If she really had to turn it off, it'd take like 2 minutes tops to boot back up again, right?
 
2012-08-16 11:34:38 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Good on the pilot. And the flight attendant for checking with the pilot instead of blindly insisting on policy.


I almost had a heart attack that was so reasonable.

/too many dicks in this world
//not enough assholes
 
2012-08-16 11:35:48 PM

ceejayoz: Karma Chameleon: So before iPads, individuals with this disorder did not fly?

They used more cumbersome electronic devices that would've presented the same problems. Chances are they've been incidents like this well before the iPad.


This guy used a Speech generating device when I saw him at a conference over ten years ago. He didn't have full control over his motor functions so signing and picture-based communication were extremely limited otherwise.
 
2012-08-16 11:36:13 PM

ceejayoz: Karma Chameleon: So before iPads, individuals with this disorder did not fly?

They used more cumbersome electronic devices that would've presented the same problems. Chances are they've been incidents like this well before the iPad.


Many of the old devices (and honestly the new ones too) are much larger and bulkier than an iPad and cost at least 10x more. There have been several legal disputes lately where companies that make the larger devices are making patent claims against those releasing much less expensive software that can run on iOS or Android. Here's a story about one example where the app has now been yanked from the iPad App Store, and people who have paid for it are worried about it being pulled from their iPads as its the only software they've found that works for them.

My daughter is almost 4, non-verbal and has motor skill problems, such as not being able to walk yet (but almost there). But we can tell she understands much of what is being said around her, and she can identify object and other things if asked. Many times we can tell she's frustrated at not being able to communicate. We are working on using an iPad to facilitate her communication as well, but its a slow process.

Regarding the issue of the items on planes, there has to be some sort of an exemption made for the disabled, and honestly I think they could allow all devices on takeoff as long as volume is muted, and no cell phone calls. The primary reason for having people put the devices away isn't because of interference, but to keep the noise level down, and to keep loose items from being tossed about the cabin if there's a rough takeoff or landing.
 
2012-08-16 11:36:30 PM
I'm amused at the upset snowflakes in this thread.
 
2012-08-16 11:38:24 PM

GungFu: Learn to farking write with pen and paper, lazy coont.

Autism doesn't involve not using your hands, I'm pretty sure.


Uh, not everyone with autism has full control over their motor functions.
 
2012-08-16 11:39:01 PM

GungFu: Learn to farking write with pen and paper, lazy coont.

Autism doesn't involve not using your hands, I'm pretty sure.
[...]


FTA: She lacks the fine motor skills to use a pen, and only knows a little sign language. She types with one finger.

But it's sooo-o-o-o-o-o-o-o hard to actually *read* the article! Damn that coont for making me think!
 
2012-08-16 11:39:31 PM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: ignite ice: My mistake in thinking that people with disabilities wanted to be treated the same as everyone else. That applies to laws, rules, and regulations just as much as it does to freedoms, privileges, and accommodations. This girl doesn't want to be singled out because she's autistic, but she wants to be able to have rights that no one else on the plane has. Remind me again how this promotes equality for anyone.

I agree. Turn off the iPad, use a pad and pen.
The Flight Attendant was in the right.
The Pilot just wanted to get out of there, though.
I'm sorry the Flight Attendant didn't have the backup they
deserved to have for trying to enforce policy.


Although the whole policy is pointless to begin with.
 
2012-08-16 11:39:40 PM
Here's a pinwheel. Now STFU, princess, until we get to altitude.
 
2012-08-16 11:40:01 PM

Hector Remarkable: Human rights this, human rights that, "Oh, I'm Human! Give me my Human Rights!" Humans getting rights makes me so mad. Like all Flight Attendants, I hate humans, and believe they should be afforded no rights. I don't have time, as a paying, compliant air-travel consumer, to pay for "humans" , and their "rights". Go back to magical "I-don't-have-to-do-what-the-Flight-Attendant-says"-land - especially if you're disabled and the commands involve strange thing. Strange, sexual things. Oh, yeah.


Plus, if you start giving humans rights, the other animals might start getting uppity. Can you imagine if the insects or sponges or something up and said, "We're animals, too! Give us our rights!" Pandemonium, my friends, pandemonium.
 
2012-08-16 11:40:35 PM

ignite ice: My mistake in thinking that people with disabilities wanted to be treated the same as everyone else. That applies to laws, rules, and regulations just as much as it does to freedoms, privileges, and accommodations. This girl doesn't want to be singled out because she's autistic, but she wants to be able to have rights that no one else on the plane has. Remind me again how this promotes equality for anyone.


I can basically see you struggling to breathe typing this nonsense.
 
2012-08-16 11:41:20 PM

Fart_Machine: Andromeda: Anyone know how common this method of communication is for autistic people?

For non-verbal autistic folks many have used PECS.


A smart patient/caregiver/teacher always has them on hand for just such situations. Shouldn't have been an issue, just like every other supposedly "normal" people addicted to their gadgets like drooling retards. Depending solely on a gadget for communication when there are other options is asking for a visit from the spirit of Darwin.

Want to piss off a relentless texter? Copy and paste the whole of War and Peace and find a service that will send it to their phone. From what I saw done, it will break it up and send hundreds / thousands of texts in series making the phone unusable until it's all done.

Then laugh at the rage.

/have a "normal" sister with that has a texting problem, no matter who she's with, she's constantly texting people who are not present
//when she had it done to her, I could swear she turned a little green and bulked up a bit
 
2012-08-16 11:41:50 PM

GungFu: Learn to farking write with pen and paper, lazy coont.

Autism doesn't involve not using your hands, I'm pretty sure.

Also, what's the need to communicate on a plane anyway? You can go on an entire flight without speaking to anyone but if you must, then all you need are 8 or so Flash Cards or pre-written sentences:

1: Fish, please.
2: Chicken, Please.
3: I have the tomato juice.
4: I'll have the orange Juice
5: Tea, please
6: Coffee, please
7: Pillow and Blankets, please.
8. Please Do Not Disturb. Thanks.
9: Hand Job, please.
10. The lady Stewardess
11. The Gay Man Steward


12. What it is big momma, my momma didn't raise no dummy, I dug her rap.
 
2012-08-16 11:42:21 PM
Airlines do not make these rules that get everyone bent out of shape, the FAA did.

Don't get pissy with the airline employees who are only trying to do what they have been trained to do. Wouldn't it be a lot easier on them if passengers could use electronics whenever they wanted, be able to congregate at the forward lav and drink til they passed out? I don't think flight attendants enjoy having to ask adults to not act like farking babies.
 
2012-08-16 11:43:10 PM
Yeah, and when some completely unrelated problem with the electronics causes a nightmare near crash that everybody watches end as a dead stick landing on TV and the passengers all fight for camera time and they remember the iPad and the pilot who overruled AA and FAA regs... well I'm sure his career will be fine.
 
2012-08-16 11:43:24 PM
I know everybody is focused on the rights of the autistic girl and all but I thought this was a little odd:

Further, Dalal said that the pilot said the pilots themselves use iPads during takeoff and landing.

Shouldn't the pilots be, ya know, flying the plane during takeoff and landing?
 
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