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(Fox Business)   Gold falls to lowest in two years, survival seeds and potable water post solid gains   (foxbusiness.com) divider line 42
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1602 clicks; posted to Business » on 16 Aug 2012 at 2:42 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-16 02:59:24 PM
Gold demand != Gold prices
 
2012-08-16 03:04:41 PM
Gold prices in the past few years were artificially high due to the belief that in 2012 everything was going to go to shiat and that the U.S. dollar was going to be worthless and that gold was going to be the new currency standard. If everything falls to shiat later this year and next year and the dollar isn't worth jack, gold won't be the new standard.

If things went bad, really really farking bad, and only a small few have large amounts of gold, then a small few have a lot of shiny metal that no one is really going to want.

If things fell apart, no power, no government, no currency, then what is used for currency is going to be limited to a basic trade for goods and services until a form of currency was established.
 
2012-08-16 03:05:35 PM
Dutch tulip bulbs, anyone?
 
2012-08-16 03:10:37 PM
What's the current line on potent potables?
 
2012-08-16 03:12:42 PM
Now is the time to buy!
 
2012-08-16 03:23:05 PM
Pretty useless stuff anyway

media-mcw.cursecdn.com
 
2012-08-16 03:24:36 PM
www.apoliticus.com
 
2012-08-16 03:29:54 PM
fc02.deviantart.net

Got mine. Screw you.
 
2012-08-16 03:31:26 PM
keep going down!


/so that I can buy it
 
2012-08-16 03:39:40 PM
If it goes down to around 2007 levels or lower, I'll buy some and platinum to boot. It's never bad to have precious metals in your portfolio.
 
2012-08-16 03:40:14 PM
And, if it ever reaches zero, just think of all the money that will have to be spent redoing commercials.
 
2012-08-16 03:50:12 PM

nmemkha: [fc02.deviantart.net image 850x637]

Got mine. Screw you.


Mr. McDuck?
 
2012-08-16 04:04:47 PM

Random Anonymous Blackmail: Pretty useless stuff anyway

[media-mcw.cursecdn.com image 150x150]


I beg to differ. you need that stuff to make powered rails now.
 
2012-08-16 04:56:32 PM
Isn't corn now worth more than gold?
 
2012-08-16 05:37:00 PM

AliceBToklasLives: What's the current line on potent potables?


Anywhere from $200 to $2000 each, depending on the round.
 
2012-08-16 06:07:22 PM
The rich are not rich because they have gold.

The rich have gold because they are rich.
 
2012-08-16 06:16:49 PM
FTA: "Official sector purchases of gold more than doubled, meanwhile, to a record 157.5 tonnes in the last quarter, with Russia, Kazakhstan, Turkey and Ukraine all announcing a rise in bullion reserves in that period.
"If you look to the half-year, central banks have bought 254 tonnes against 200 tonnes for the half-year last year," Grubb said. "At this rate, we'll be looking at a record central bank year, higher than last year, which was a record since 1964."


Central bank purchases seem to be creating a pretty strong floor for gold prices. I'll continue to hold until that floor starts to weaken.
 
2012-08-16 06:26:43 PM
Uh, it works the other way, actually. The price of gold is loosely linked with the buying power (value) of the dollar. The cheaper gold is, the more buying power you have; and that is good for the 99%.

As for survival seeds, they can get VERY expensive, and still be well worth buying. A hypothetical $100 bag of seeds can easily result in $1000 worth of groceries, if you have the means to grow it.
 
2012-08-16 07:16:18 PM
I've been predicting the crash of gold for over a year now. So far I'm wrong. I don't understand why goldbugs think it's such a good investment. If its really a hedge against hyperinflation, why not buy real estate - a useful income producing asset that is roughly at the same prices it was 10 years ago, unlike gold which is 6x as expensive?
 
2012-08-16 07:34:47 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: I've been predicting the crash of gold for over a year now. So far I'm wrong. I don't understand why goldbugs think it's such a good investment. If its really a hedge against hyperinflation, why not buy real estate - a useful income producing asset that is roughly at the same prices it was 10 years ago, unlike gold which is 6x as expensive?


Keeping a sack of gold coins in your safe isn't going to cost you thousands of dollars a year in property taxes, maintenance, etc.
 
2012-08-16 08:15:27 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: I've been predicting the crash of gold for over a year now. So far I'm wrong. I don't understand why goldbugs think it's such a good investment. If its really a hedge against hyperinflation, why not buy real estate - a useful income producing asset that is roughly at the same prices it was 10 years ago, unlike gold which is 6x as expensive?


Ok, I'm not a gold bug, but have about 15% of my assets in a precious metals fund. Why? A.) it pays great dividends. B.) Sequestration will happen. The Bush tax cuts will expire for everyone. Both on Jan 1st 2013. C.) Euro is in bad shape. D.) China wants to be a world player and can't with their currency pegged to the dollar. E.) With the Euro in bad shape and the American economy going to get it with a double whammy, gold seems to be a pretty safe hedge.
 
2012-08-16 08:34:07 PM

Austinoftx: A hypothetical $100 bag of seeds can easily result in $1000 worth of groceries, if you have the means to grow it.


Funny, we've grown that much from less than $15 worth of seeds. Next year will be less because we'll be saving seeds from the plants we really liked.
 
2012-08-16 08:38:20 PM

natazha: Austinoftx: A hypothetical $100 bag of seeds can easily result in $1000 worth of groceries, if you have the means to grow it.

Funny, we've grown that much from less than $15 worth of seeds. Next year will be less because we'll be saving seeds from the plants we really liked.


Also, kinda hard to eat gold. (barrel of gold for a barrel of wheat etc...)

Of course, with hollow points, I will have both barrels.

/snerk
 
2012-08-16 08:40:33 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: why not buy real estate - a useful income producing asset that is roughly at the same prices it was 10 years ago,


That may be true in the city, but it's certainly not true in this part of the country. Farm ground could be had for $600-$800/acre 10 years ago. That same ground today will go for over $2,500. The price explosion has been even more dramatic in many parts of the corn belt.

Great Janitor: If things fell apart, no power, no government, no currency, then what is used for currency is going to be limited to a basic trade for goods and services until a form of currency was established.


I'm already working on my blow-jobs-per-pound-of-food conversion chart. The attractiveness modifier is really tricky to nail down.
 
2012-08-16 09:25:35 PM

natazha: Austinoftx: A hypothetical $100 bag of seeds can easily result in $1000 worth of groceries, if you have the means to grow it.

Funny, we've grown that much from less than $15 worth of seeds. Next year will be less because we'll be saving seeds from the plants we really liked.


The most expensive, fancy vacuum-packed heirloom seed survival packs I've seen have been $30-$50. They're meant for long-term storage. I've got a tupperware box chock full of grocery and dollar store seeds, so I know it can be had for far cheaper. Also, I called several of the seed companies to ask them about heirloom seed, and it turned out over half of the seeds were heirloom varieties any way. Sometimes there's a color code, and sometimes you can assume it's heirloom if it *doesn't* say 'hybrid' on the packet. I support the idea of heirloom seeds, but I still go to our nearby boutique gardening center for certain expensive hybrids because they do so well. Mmmmmmm sugar-snap climbing peas! They keep growing until January here! Still under $5/pack.
 
2012-08-16 09:30:05 PM

mod3072: Debeo Summa Credo: why not buy real estate - a useful income producing asset that is roughly at the same prices it was 10 years ago,

That may be true in the city, but it's certainly not true in this part of the country. Farm ground could be had for $600-$800/acre 10 years ago. That same ground today will go for over $2,500. The price explosion has been even more dramatic in many parts of the corn belt.

Great Janitor: If things fell apart, no power, no government, no currency, then what is used for currency is going to be limited to a basic trade for goods and services until a form of currency was established.

I'm already working on my blow-jobs-per-pound-of-food conversion chart. The attractiveness modifier is really tricky to nail down.


Yeah, I wrote that and figured that an 18 y.o. hottie with an oral fixation could become queen in the scenario that I laid out.
 
2012-08-16 09:46:38 PM

duggieb63: natazha: Austinoftx: A hypothetical $100 bag of seeds can easily result in $1000 worth of groceries, if you have the means to grow it.

Funny, we've grown that much from less than $15 worth of seeds. Next year will be less because we'll be saving seeds from the plants we really liked.

Also, kinda hard to eat gold. (barrel of gold for a barrel of wheat etc...)

Of course, with hollow points, I will have both barrels.

/snerk


Right, you can't eat gold. And gold's value is too concentrated to use as barter currency in most cases. What gold, silver and platinum is good for is safekeeping your life's savings until an economy returns.
 
2012-08-16 10:02:36 PM

Austinoftx: Right, you can't eat gold.


Technically you can. You'll just shiat it out later.

/pedant
 
2012-08-16 10:04:49 PM

Great Janitor: mod3072: Debeo Summa Credo: why not buy real estate - a useful income producing asset that is roughly at the same prices it was 10 years ago,

That may be true in the city, but it's certainly not true in this part of the country. Farm ground could be had for $600-$800/acre 10 years ago. That same ground today will go for over $2,500. The price explosion has been even more dramatic in many parts of the corn belt.

Great Janitor: If things fell apart, no power, no government, no currency, then what is used for currency is going to be limited to a basic trade for goods and services until a form of currency was established.

I'm already working on my blow-jobs-per-pound-of-food conversion chart. The attractiveness modifier is really tricky to nail down.

Yeah, I wrote that and figured that an 18 y.o. hottie with an oral fixation could become queen in the scenario that I laid out.


I can see it going one of 2 ways: She's either a queen, or currency. Based on the prison movies that I've seen, I'm going to bet on currency.
 
2012-08-16 10:08:16 PM

Brontes: Debeo Summa Credo: I've been predicting the crash of gold for over a year now. So far I'm wrong. I don't understand why goldbugs think it's such a good investment. If its really a hedge against hyperinflation, why not buy real estate - a useful income producing asset that is roughly at the same prices it was 10 years ago, unlike gold which is 6x as expensive?

Ok, I'm not a gold bug, but have about 15% of my assets in a precious metals fund. Why? A.) it pays great dividends. B.) Sequestration will happen. The Bush tax cuts will expire for everyone. Both on Jan 1st 2013. C.) Euro is in bad shape. D.) China wants to be a world player and can't with their currency pegged to the dollar. E.) With the Euro in bad shape and the American economy going to get it with a double whammy, gold seems to be a pretty safe hedge.


Right, you're not a gold bug. 15% is a bit high IMO but not unreasonable, particularly as you consider it a hedge.

My issue is with the people who justify their support for the current price and expect more exponential growth based on an expected debasement of the currency. If that comes to reality, real estate is an even better choice given where prices have gone in recent years.
 
2012-08-16 10:18:40 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: Brontes: Debeo Summa Credo: I've been predicting the crash of gold for over a year now. So far I'm wrong. I don't understand why goldbugs think it's such a good investment. If its really a hedge against hyperinflation, why not buy real estate - a useful income producing asset that is roughly at the same prices it was 10 years ago, unlike gold which is 6x as expensive?

Ok, I'm not a gold bug, but have about 15% of my assets in a precious metals fund. Why? A.) it pays great dividends. B.) Sequestration will happen. The Bush tax cuts will expire for everyone. Both on Jan 1st 2013. C.) Euro is in bad shape. D.) China wants to be a world player and can't with their currency pegged to the dollar. E.) With the Euro in bad shape and the American economy going to get it with a double whammy, gold seems to be a pretty safe hedge.

Right, you're not a gold bug. 15% is a bit high IMO but not unreasonable, particularly as you consider it a hedge.

My issue is with the people who justify their support for the current price and expect more exponential growth based on an expected debasement of the currency. If that comes to reality, real estate is an even better choice given where prices have gone in recent years.


I just don't see the Euro and Dollar hanging with gold after Jan 1. 2013. I'll be happy if gold maintains its current price, I'm wrong and the economy improves, but that just seems unlikely with sequestration and tax cuts sunsetting. Real estate is a good asset, but relies on taking on debt to purchase (for the common man), which I'd hate to do right now.
 
2012-08-17 12:00:18 AM

Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: Debeo Summa Credo: I've been predicting the crash of gold for over a year now. So far I'm wrong. I don't understand why goldbugs think it's such a good investment. If its really a hedge against hyperinflation, why not buy real estate - a useful income producing asset that is roughly at the same prices it was 10 years ago, unlike gold which is 6x as expensive?

Keeping a sack of gold coins in your safe isn't going to cost you thousands of dollars a year in property taxes, maintenance, etc.


A lot easier to relocate with, too.
 
2012-08-17 12:29:10 AM

BKITU: AliceBToklasLives: What's the current line on potent potables?

Anywhere from $200 to $2000 each, depending on the round.


Suck it, Trebeck.
 
2012-08-17 12:43:14 AM
Whatever will get rid of the clowns that open those strip mall "We Buy Gold" stores.

/and the poor saps they have wearing a gorilla suit in the summer spinning a sign
 
2012-08-17 07:19:25 AM

Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: Debeo Summa Credo: I've been predicting the crash of gold for over a year now. So far I'm wrong. I don't understand why goldbugs think it's such a good investment. If its really a hedge against hyperinflation, why not buy real estate - a useful income producing asset that is roughly at the same prices it was 10 years ago, unlike gold which is 6x as expensive?

Keeping a sack of gold coins in your safe isn't going to cost you thousands of dollars a year in property taxes, maintenance, etc.


It's not going to provide you with rental income either. Real estate is a net income producing asset, as opposed to gold which yields exactly zero.
 
2012-08-17 09:20:22 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: Debeo Summa Credo: I've been predicting the crash of gold for over a year now. So far I'm wrong. I don't understand why goldbugs think it's such a good investment. If its really a hedge against hyperinflation, why not buy real estate - a useful income producing asset that is roughly at the same prices it was 10 years ago, unlike gold which is 6x as expensive?

Keeping a sack of gold coins in your safe isn't going to cost you thousands of dollars a year in property taxes, maintenance, etc.

It's not going to provide you with rental income either. Real estate is a net income producing asset, as opposed to gold which yields exactly zero.


You forgot your disclaimer... "This message brought to you by your local Realtor®."

Not all real estate is created equal. You have to figure out where (Manhattan? Detroit? San Fernando? Ames?) and what (single-family? apartments? commercial? industrial? farms? vacant lots versus buildings?) to buy. Even if you lose money you still owe property taxes. It requires a lot of time and effort to manage, and if you punt it to a property management company there goes a good chunk of your profits. Real estate is by no means a slam dunk; there are a hell of a lot more people out there who went broke (or at least lost a ton of money) in real estate than those who did with gold.

I'm not saying that real estate is a bad idea or that gold is a good idea, I'm just addressing your "what could anyone possibly see in gold when real estate is a no-brainer" question. You said you don't understand why goldbugs think it's such a good investment but then go on to answer your own question... real estate is stagnant while gold is 6x as expensive. You'd have had to make one hell of a bundle in rent to make up that difference.
 
2012-08-17 11:26:30 AM
Not all real estate is created equal. You have to figure out where (Manhattan? Detroit? San Fernando? Ames?) and what (single-family? apartments? commercial? industrial? farms? vacant lots versus buildings?) to buy. Even if you lose money you still owe property taxes. It requires a lot of time and effort to manage, and if you punt it to a property management company there goes a good chunk of your profits. Real estate is by no means a slam dunk; there are a hell of a lot more people out there who went broke (or at least lost a ton of money) in real estate than those who did with gold.

I'm not saying that real estate is a bad idea or that gold is a good idea, I'm just addressing your "what could anyone possibly see in gold when real estate is a no-brainer" question. You said you don't understand why goldbugs think it's such a good investment but then go on to answer your own question... real estate is stagnant while gold is 6x as expensive. You'd have had to make one hell of a bundle in rent to make up that difference.


But it's already 6x as expensive! You can't go back in time and buy gold at $275/oz, you have to buy at current prices. That's my point. If you are buying gold because its a real asset that will retain its real value because you fear hyperinflation, then why not consider buying a real asset that hasn't appreciated enormously in recent years? The fear of hyperinflation is already priced more into gold than into real estate.

And people have lost more money in real estate recently because of leverage and a 35%+ decline in prices from the peak in 2006, after tripling in the prior 10 years . If gold decreased in value by 35% after going up six fold, which is entirely possible and in fact more likely given the nature of the commodity market, and people were as leveraged into gold as they were into real estate, you'd see people going bust in the gold market.

You're looking backwards instead of forward ('there are a hell of a lot more people who lost a ton of money in real estate than in gold'). Yeah, because gold prices have been going up. You could have made a similar comment about the safety of tech stocks in 2000.
 
2012-08-17 11:52:32 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: But it's already 6x as expensive! You can't go back in time and buy gold at $275/oz, you have to buy at current prices. That's my point. If you are buying gold because its a real asset that will retain its real value because you fear hyperinflation, then why not consider buying a real asset that hasn't appreciated enormously in recent years? The fear of hyperinflation is already priced more into gold than into real estate.

And people have lost more money in real estate recently because of leverage and a 35%+ decline in prices from the peak in 2006, after tripling in the prior 10 years . If gold decreased in value by 35% after going up six fold, which is entirely possible and in fact more likely given the nature of the commodity market, and people were as leveraged into gold as they were into real estate, you'd see people going bust in the gold market.

You're looking backwards instead of forward ('there are a hell of a lot more people who lost ...


You asked "why do goldbugs think gold is such a good investment," not "prove to me that gold is a better investment than real estate for someone starting out right now". I keep saying this but it apparently isn't sinking in... I'm not making a case for gold or against real estate, I'm trying to relay the possible factors which might make one consider gold as a good investment. I'm not saying they're good factors, bad factors, or all of the factors.
 
2012-08-17 12:28:10 PM

Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: Debeo Summa Credo: But it's already 6x as expensive! You can't go back in time and buy gold at $275/oz, you have to buy at current prices. That's my point. If you are buying gold because its a real asset that will retain its real value because you fear hyperinflation, then why not consider buying a real asset that hasn't appreciated enormously in recent years? The fear of hyperinflation is already priced more into gold than into real estate.

And people have lost more money in real estate recently because of leverage and a 35%+ decline in prices from the peak in 2006, after tripling in the prior 10 years . If gold decreased in value by 35% after going up six fold, which is entirely possible and in fact more likely given the nature of the commodity market, and people were as leveraged into gold as they were into real estate, you'd see people going bust in the gold market.

You're looking backwards instead of forward ('there are a hell of a lot more people who lost ...

You asked "why do goldbugs think gold is such a good investment," not "prove to me that gold is a better investment than real estate for someone starting out right now". I keep saying this but it apparently isn't sinking in... I'm not making a case for gold or against real estate, I'm trying to relay the possible factors which might make one consider gold as a good investment. I'm not saying they're good factors, bad factors, or all of the factors.


Okay very well. I perhaps skipped something in my original post, in that frequently when I question the sustainabiliyt of gold prices - pointing to the fact that supply/demand factors havent change drastically and gold doesn't produce income, goldbugs will respond with 'it's not that gold has gone has gone up in value but that the value of the dollar has or will go down'. If that's the case, my view is that other real assets would be better places to put your money right now, because other real assets havent seen a six fold run up in prices over the last 10 years.

Anyway, thanks for the conversation.
 
2012-08-17 03:47:10 PM
www.zerohedge.com

Meanwhile, just this year alone, China has imported over 300 more tons of gold, putting it ahead of even the IMF's 2000+ tons of gold.

Not only is China the world's biggest importer of gold. They are also the world's biggest producer of gold, and they don't export any of that gold. They see the writing on the wall as the US dollar becomes more and more worthless every single day.

One of these days China will announce they have more gold than the US, and, by the way, the Yuan will be backed by gold.

Bye bye US dollar as the world's reserve currency.
 
2012-08-17 06:46:45 PM
Last year when gold was peaking and everyone was like OMGBUYGOLDDERP!!! George Soros sold. After that gold started going down.

Guess who just bought recently?
 
2012-08-20 12:59:34 AM

Goodfella: Not only is China the world's biggest importer of gold. They are also the world's biggest producer of gold, and they don't export any of that gold. They see the writing on the wall as the US dollar becomes more and more worthless every single day.


China is also the world's biggest manufacturer of electronics. Which uses a great deal of gold as an input.

I can't find recent numbers. but in 1994 50 tons of gold a year were used for electronics manufacturning. By 2004, that had grown to 150 tons. In 2011 they imported 300 tons of gold?

I'm thinking most of that was used for bonding wire. So, it was exported, it just doesn't show up in the stats as gold exports.
 
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