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(The Daily Beast)   The Boomers are the problem for those of us who don't remember Watergate   (thedailybeast.com) divider line 127
    More: Obvious, Kirsten Powers, Watergate, baby boomers, New York Observer, John Zogby, Generation X, youth vote  
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3376 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Aug 2012 at 4:39 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-16 01:09:52 PM
Well I'm part of the "doomed generation". I know there will be no Medicare or Social Security when I get old, despite my paying into it for 16 years and I think nuking Medicare now is bullshiat. There has to be middle ground between voting against your own interests (anyone who makes less than $250k/year yet votes republican over some bullshiat wedge issue) and voting only to serve your own interests (voting to reduce your own taxes at the expense of the country).

Sure the Baby Boomers are farking assholes. But they were promised something by the government that (most) of them paid into. At least us in the "doomed generation" have had fair warning to prepare for the rug being pulled out from under us. 

So my point? I dunno. Here's Rose McGowan in The Doom Generation NSFW.
 
2012-08-16 01:32:33 PM

Mugato: There has to be middle ground between voting against your own interests (anyone who makes less than $250k/year yet votes republican over some bullshiat wedge issue) and voting only to serve your own interests (voting to reduce your own taxes at the expense of the country).
.


My steptmom and I talked about the upcoming election. I asked her about why she voted Republican. It came down to "I have to vote the moral choice" For her Abortion is a big thing (She never had kids). She proudly exclaims that she works two jobs to make ends meet, and I asked her: "Why should anyone your age have to work two jobs?"

For many people, morality is more important than their self interest.
 
2012-08-16 01:47:23 PM

Darth_Lukecash: For many people, morality is more important than their self interest.


So, what is important? TFA lays out pretty clearly why Ryan's plan is actually good for younger people.

Who's it bad for? Older people. People with loyalties to antiquated untouchable benefits. Why did the President fire Bowles and Simpson? They pointed out that two popular tax write-offs (mortgage and student loan interest) weren't sustainable.
 
2012-08-16 01:47:59 PM
So basically, you have to first buy into the narrative that Medicare won't be there when you get old, then vote for Ryan to actually make it happen.

"I'll pay into Medicare my whole working life for the previous generation, but then not actually get Medicare myself? Sign me up!"

Also counts on people who use Medicare to say "what a great program, if you change this for me, I'll explode on you. My kids? fark them."
 
2012-08-16 01:55:43 PM

tallguywithglasseson: "I'll pay into Medicare my whole working life for the previous generation, but then not actually get Medicare myself? Sign me up!"


So, anyone who worked a day before 1966 is exempted? (Yes, that'd include a lot of Boomers....)

I don't like the Ryan plan. I would much prefer a single-payer insurance system that covers everyone. But that sort of plan a) upsets people like you're talking about, b) upsets hipster progressives who believe that a flat-rate tax on all income is regressive, and c) upsets organized labor who "traded pay for benefits."
 
2012-08-16 02:49:16 PM
image.gamespotcdn.net
 
2012-08-16 03:15:57 PM

hurdboy: So, anyone who worked a day before 1966 is exempted? (Yes, that'd include a lot of Boomers....)


The text you quoted was referring to people in, say, their mid-30s or early 40s. Already been paying into Medicare for 20 years. Under Ryan plan, will continue to pay into it until retirement to fund the Boomers' Medicare, but won't get Medicare themselves. Same goes for people in their 20s or hell, even people in their early 50s.

People in the "exempted" category would have to be the "what a great program, if you change this on me, I'll explode on you. My kids? fark them." category (if they wanted to support the Ryan plan). 

hurdboy: I would much prefer a single-payer insurance system that covers everyone


That's... actually what Medicare is now. Well, covers everyone that's old. Anthony Weiner suggested expanding Medicare to everyone, looking at his penis. Didn't seem to upset progressives, hipsters, or seem to have anything to do with a flat tax. 

I don't like the Ryan plan, either.
 
2012-08-16 03:22:47 PM

hurdboy: Darth_Lukecash: For many people, morality is more important than their self interest.

So, what is important? TFA lays out pretty clearly why Ryan's plan is actually good for younger people.

Who's it bad for? Older people. People with loyalties to antiquated untouchable benefits. Why did the President fire Bowles and Simpson? They pointed out that two popular tax write-offs (mortgage and student loan interest) weren't sustainable.


I missed the part where it's good for young people. As near as I can tell, what it means is, we get to pay for the old people still, so we don't get to save any extra money, and when we get old, no one pays anything for us. So maybe if by "young people", you mean people who won't be born for another 20 years, who won't pay anything for anybody except themselves, maybe it's good for them. Or maybe not. I didn't see him make that case either, and given the nature of the distribution of health care costs over the population, I don't think he can.
So please enlighten me. How do "young people" benefit from this?
 
2012-08-16 03:41:37 PM
Big problem is...

Most of us Gen Xers hate this tard. Voted "biggest brown nosier" by his HS class, that's us.

Also, he is on the wrong side of most of the social issues.
 
2012-08-16 03:44:56 PM
Crap, "biggest Brown Noser"

Damm ADH...

PUPPY!
 
2012-08-16 03:58:31 PM

tallguywithglasseson: People in the "exempted" category would have to be the "what a great program, if you change this on me, I'll explode on you. My kids? fark them." category (if they wanted to support the Ryan plan).


Gotcha. I'm one of those mid-30s people targeted by TFA. Difficulty: I'm married to someone several years' my junior who's unemployed. Difficulty 2: I'm teetering on the edge of disability (and Medicare).

tallguywithglasseson: That's... actually what Medicare is now. Well, covers everyone that's old. Anthony Weiner suggested expanding Medicare to everyone, looking at his penis. Didn't seem to upset progressives, hipsters, or seem to have anything to do with a flat tax.


I'm talking about people who gripe about things like payroll taxes now, lobby for the "Buffet Rule," etc. My representative wants all the "Bush Tax Cuts" to expire. His party (Democratic) disagrees with him.

rumpelstiltskin: I missed the part where it's good for young people. As near as I can tell, what it means is, we get to pay for the old people still, so we don't get to save any extra money, and when we get old, no one pays anything for us. So maybe if by "young people", you mean people who won't be born for another 20 years, who won't pay anything for anybody except themselves, maybe it's good for them. Or maybe not. I didn't see him make that case either, and given the nature of the distribution of health care costs over the population, I don't think he can.
So please enlighten me. How do "young people" benefit from this?


Perhaps if it was pitched as a "private option," it'd be more palatable? What the Ryan plan does is sets up a voucher system you can choose to get private insurance instead of regular Medicare.

Plan A is $3/mo.
Plan B is $4/mo.
Plan C is $20/mo.

The Ryan Plan, as I understand it, would pay for Plan B. If you chose Plan A, you pocket $1/mo. If you chose Plan C, you pay $16/mo.

Or you could just choose regular Medicare as long as it's offered in its current form. Year-to-year option, just like the Part B is now.
 
2012-08-16 04:00:11 PM
FTFA: GOP Congressman Paul Ryan-the tireless, wonky, 42-year-old workout freak-has made history by becoming the first member of our generation to join a presidential ticket.

Palin was born in '64, sooooo....
 
2012-08-16 04:28:44 PM

hurdboy:
Perhaps if it was pitched as a "private option," it'd be more palatable? What the Ryan plan does is sets up a voucher system you can choose to get private insurance instead of regular Medicare.

Plan A is $3/mo.
Plan B is $4/mo.
Plan C is $20/mo.

The Ryan Plan, as I understand it, would pay for Plan B. If you chose Plan A, you pocket $1/mo. If you chose Plan C, you pay $16/mo.

Or you could just choose regular Medicare as long as it's offered in ...


That's where the distribution of health costs over the population comes in.
Health insurance is a losing bet. Right now, I pay for the fat cat lady in accounting who won't even take one flight of stairs to the cafeteria to get her chocolate cake, and she pays for me, which is nothing. I lose, but I make that bet because I'm not stupid- my alternative is to make a bet that I can't afford to lose: I pay nothing, but I might get cancer and need 10 zillion dollars to survive. Health care costs are one in a million you can't afford them, and then you really can't afford them.
When you talk about health care for old people, the potential losses are too exhorbitant for old people to bear through premiums. You can get your Ryan voucher, and it means absolutely nothing. If you're healthy, you don't need it, and if you're sick, it doesn't cover your expenses. That's the sort of health care that is available to seniors through an insurance scheme. If we want to pretend that we are going to provide health care for old people, then we need to admit that someone else will pay for it, and that someone is us.
That's not to say I don't think Medicare needs fixing. We can't afford to give things like Provenge to people and we should admit that, too.
 
2012-08-16 04:42:27 PM

rumpelstiltskin: That's where the distribution of health costs over the population comes in.
Health insurance is a losing bet. Right now, I pay for the fat cat lady in accounting who won't even take one flight of stairs to the cafeteria to get her chocolate cake, and she pays for me, which is nothing. I lose, but I make that bet because I'm not stupid- my alternative is to make a bet that I can't afford to lose: I pay nothing, but I might get cancer and need 10 zillion dollars to survive. Health care costs are one in a million you can't afford them, and then you really can't afford them.


As someone who now has a very expensive, but rarely fatal condition, I appreciate that. (In profile, if you're curious.)

When I was younger and healthier, working multiple jobs, I paid for my own insurance. It was expensive. Now it's tied to my job, and my wife is unemployed. If I end up on Medicare, what happens to her?

rumpelstiltskin: When you talk about health care for old people, the potential losses are too exhorbitant for old people to bear through premiums. You can get your Ryan voucher, and it means absolutely nothing. If you're healthy, you don't need it, and if you're sick, it doesn't cover your expenses. That's the sort of health care that is available to seniors through an insurance scheme. If we want to pretend that we are going to provide health care for old people, then we need to admit that someone else will pay for it, and that someone is us.
That's not to say I don't think Medicare needs fixing. We can't afford to give things like Provenge to people and we should admit that, too.


Must-cover, and the individual mandate are supposed to fix that. I'm skeptical. But, then, I support a single-payer insurance system funded by a flat-rate tax on all income.
 
2012-08-16 04:50:25 PM
As a Gen-Y'er (I think?) I don't want the government to cut Social Security or Medicare benefits because I want the old folks to want to retire so I have some career prospects. If anything it would be great if they can lower the retirement age.
 
2012-08-16 04:51:12 PM
Wow, that has got to be the biggest disconnect in reality between headline and actual article I've seen on Fark this year.

I know, it's only August.
 
2012-08-16 04:51:27 PM
The Me Generation has done more to destroy this nation than any generation before or since. Outside of those who served in Vietnam or went down South to fight for civil rights, they all live under this delusion that because they lived in the 60's means they did something important. Most of them got high and forgot the "expanding your mind" portion. They grew up to be a greedy population who cared more about their needs than the needs of the future. They instilled the notion that quick gains where more important than long term stability. Their children and grandchildren will one day soon have to forcibly remove them from power to save America.
 
2012-08-16 04:51:58 PM
What a boomer being a problem to everyone might look like:
www.dvdtimes.co.uk
 
2012-08-16 04:52:14 PM
Boomers broke this country.......the whole farking lot of em. Took from their parents, raised spoiled brats, and left all of the debt for their grandchildren. Now they want us to pay to take care of them in their retirement.
 
2012-08-16 04:52:45 PM
Bwhahahahahahahahahahahah!


Okay, you might want to sit down for this one, I wouldn't want you to fall down when you hear this. "Saving" or "Fixing" Social Security and the Medicare program is easy, so easy even a farking idiot can do it. How you ask? Simple, RAISE farkING TAXES YOU MORONS!

All you have to do is increase the marginal rates to 60%, 55%, 48%, 35%, 33%, and 28%. Boom deficit almost closed, social programs saved, and idiot Americans actually paying the real cost of government.
 
2012-08-16 04:56:11 PM
I have no problem pushing granny off a cliff. fark that old bat.
 
2012-08-16 04:57:35 PM

hurdboy: Darth_Lukecash: For many people, morality is more important than their self interest.

So, what is important? TFA lays out pretty clearly why Ryan's plan is actually good for younger people.

Who's it bad for? Older people. People with loyalties to antiquated untouchable benefits. Why did the President fire Bowles and Simpson? They pointed out that two popular tax write-offs (mortgage and student loan interest) weren't sustainable.


The problem with younger people is that they don't tend to stay that way forever.
 
2012-08-16 04:59:33 PM
I would be more inclined to the author's viewpoint if Ryan's budget did something *better* with the money (for example, paid down that "criminal" student debt). Just giving it to rich people? No thanks.
 
2012-08-16 04:59:49 PM
FTFA:

But Ryan is young and is poised to be the intellectual leader of the conservative movement for the next generation. He will be a force to be reckoned with.  


i2.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-08-16 05:00:33 PM

Paul Ryan -

HISTORY'S GREATEST MONSTER
 
2012-08-16 05:00:49 PM

Citrate1007: Boomers broke this country.......the whole farking lot of em. Took from their parents, raised spoiled brats, and left all of the debt for their grandchildren. Now they want us to pay to take care of them in their retirement.


Meh, every generation thinks the old people ruined everything and the young people are ruining it more. Until they're old people, then the old people were right all along and the now-middle-aged people just haven't grown up enough yet and are acting like children.

Get over yourself, you're not special.
 
2012-08-16 05:01:34 PM

Slaves2Darkness: Okay, you might want to sit down for this one, I wouldn't want you to fall down when you hear this. "Saving" or "Fixing" Social Security and the Medicare program is easy, so easy even a farking idiot can do it. How you ask? Simple, RAISE farkING TAXES YOU MORONS!


Also pay back the money ($2.5 trillion) Congress "borrowed" from it.

/Remember all of those RW pundits mocking Gore's lock box idea?
 
2012-08-16 05:01:40 PM

Slaves2Darkness: All you have to do is increase the marginal rates to 60%, 55%, 48%, 35%, 33%, and 28%. Boom deficit almost closed, social programs saved, and idiot Americans actually paying the real cost of government.


Unfortunately to do that you have to get through the final boss of the GOP video game.

latimesblogs.latimes.com
 
2012-08-16 05:02:07 PM

Mugato: I know there will be no Medicare or Social Security when I get old, despite my paying into it for 16 years and I think nuking Medicare now is bullshiat.


Can't speak for Medicare, but even the worst estimates show that those stuck in the population blip will still get 75% of Social Security, then when the blip is done, things will be fine again. And of course a simple raise on the tax cap could get that 75% to 100%.
 
2012-08-16 05:03:08 PM

beta_plus: Paul Ryan -

HISTORY'S GREATEST MONSTER DOUCHEBAG OF THE WEEK


FTFY
 
2012-08-16 05:03:09 PM
Are they really playing the "Vote for a boomer for President because a Gen-Xer is VP and he'll screw the boomers over if we let him" card?
 
2012-08-16 05:03:52 PM

FTFA:

Why The Screwed Generation Is Turning To Paul Ryan
This is literally the exact opposite of reality. Those most supportive of Romney/Ryan already have theirs so fark the rest of us.
 
2012-08-16 05:04:04 PM

Jim_Callahan: Citrate1007: Boomers broke this country.......the whole farking lot of em. Took from their parents, raised spoiled brats, and left all of the debt for their grandchildren. Now they want us to pay to take care of them in their retirement.

Meh, every generation thinks the old people ruined everything and the young people are ruining it more. Until they're old people, then the old people were right all along and the now-middle-aged people just haven't grown up enough yet and are acting like children.

Get over yourself, you're not special.


Looks at nearly every socio-economic indicator......you mean the gen X'ers are going to fark this up even more.
 
2012-08-16 05:05:52 PM

Jim_Callahan: Meh, every generation thinks the old people ruined everything and the young people are ruining it more. Until they're old people, then the old people were right all along and the now-middle-aged people just haven't grown up enough yet and are acting like children.

Get over yourself, you're not special.




No, it's that every generation before them made the point of leaving the country in better shape than when they received it. The Boomers are the first to break that tradition.
 
2012-08-16 05:08:21 PM
Generation X chronicler Jeff Gordinier, has written that Gen-Xers suffer from "athazagoraphobia"-"an abnormal and persistent fear of being forgotten or ignored."

Wow, being an AW has a medical name now. Science is cool.

Loving all these "Ryan sure has those kids excited" articles.

While Democrats attack Ryan's Medicare plan as "radical" and portray him as pushing granny off the cliff, young people don't seem to be buying this caricature. Or maybe "radical" is what they want.

i293.photobucket.com 

Can dig it.
 
2012-08-16 05:09:43 PM
Darth_Lukecash: Mugato: There has to be middle ground between voting against your own interests (anyone who makes less than $250k/year yet votes republican over some bullshiat wedge issue) and voting only to serve your own interests (voting to reduce your own taxes at the expense of the country).
.

My steptmom and I talked about the upcoming election. I asked her about why she voted Republican. It came down to "I have to vote the moral choice" For her Abortion is a big thing (She never had kids). She proudly exclaims that she works two jobs to make ends meet, and I asked her: "Why should anyone your age have to work two jobs?"

For many people, morality religion is more important than their self interest.


FTFY. There's very little "moral" about a party that will lie and cheat it's way to victory.
 
2012-08-16 05:11:04 PM

Slaves2Darkness: RAISE farkING TAXES YOU MORONS!

All you have to do is increase the marginal rates to 60%, 55%, 48%, 35%, 33%, and 28%. Boom deficit almost closed, social programs saved, and idiot Americans actually paying the real cost of government.


or reduce the real cost of government until it is in line with what we are paying.
 
2012-08-16 05:11:24 PM

tallguywithglasseson: you have to first buy into the narrative that Medicare won't be there when you get old


It's not a narrative. It won't be there for anyone now under 40.
 
2012-08-16 05:13:15 PM
So wait, there are people who paid into Medicare but are concerned they may not get it, and they support a plan to kill it for themselves, but preserve it for the boomers?
 
2012-08-16 05:16:19 PM

LiberalWeenie: So wait, there are people who paid into Medicare but are concerned they may not get it, and they support a plan to kill it for themselves, but preserve it for the boomers?


"Centrist" mentality: 'We have to destroy Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid now or we might have to destroy them sometime in the future!'
 
2012-08-16 05:17:14 PM

Satanic_Hamster: What a boomer being a problem to everyone might look like:
www.dvdtimes.co.uk



Send in the Knight Sabers!
 
2012-08-16 05:18:20 PM
If Gen X is the "screwed generation" then what the Fark is Gen Y?
 
2012-08-16 05:19:30 PM

Arkanaut: As a Gen-Y'er (I think?) I don't want the government to cut Social Security or Medicare benefits because I want the old folks to want to retire so I have some career prospects. If anything it would be great if they can lower the retirement age.


kind of sad but yes... people need to be able to leave the workforce so others can get in...
 
2012-08-16 05:19:55 PM
Ah, is this the weekly Gen X/Gen Y/Millennial whinefest??

To those who support Ryan merely because he isn't a Boomer, don't forget that Romney IS, and he's gone out of his way to screw everyone except other millionaires.
 
2012-08-16 05:21:18 PM

beta_plus: It's not a narrative. It won't be there for anyone now under 40.


Thanks, Biff, just out of curiosity, doing any sports betting?
 
2012-08-16 05:26:04 PM

Bag of Hammers: No, it's that every generation before them made the point of leaving the country in better shape than when they received it. The Boomers are the first to break that tradition.


So I see your school apparently skipped the Civil War, the Reconstruction, the Gilded Age, the 1929 crash, the War of 1812, and the industrial revolution in the 1700s.

Home-schooled, I take it?
 
2012-08-16 05:26:25 PM
The Boomers are the problem for those of us who don't remember Watergate

Fixed.
 
2012-08-16 05:27:26 PM
As a Millennial, I don't disagree with Paul Ryan's plan because it will "kill grandma", I disagree with it because it's inefficient, impractical and and too heavily burdens the middle class in favor of the ultra rich.

If Paul Ryan's plan ever gets passed you will, over night, transform a moderate nation of people disagreeing about topics into a nation of people out looking for blood.
 
2012-08-16 05:36:11 PM
<b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7271761/78754956#c78754956" target="_blank">Mugato</a>:</b> <i>Well I'm part of the "doomed generation". I know there will be no Medicare or Social Security when I get old, despite my paying into it for 16 years and I think nuking Medicare now is bullshiat. There has to be middle ground between voting against your own interests (anyone who makes less than $250k/year yet votes republican over some bullshiat wedge issue) and voting only to serve your own interests (voting to reduce your own taxes at the expense of the country).</i>

Simple: As soon as the boomers are sufficiently outnumbered, we use their medicare money to pay off the student loans they made unclearable by bankruptcy.
 
2012-08-16 05:38:39 PM
All of you boomers are pieces of garbage. I will laugh when you are finally put in an assisted living home and forgotten about. That is a fitting punishment for destroying the country. You bankrupted it. You refuse to give up one cent of your precious monthly check.
 
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