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(The New York Times)   I am 54! How come nobody cares about my health care? Answer: Romney's "giving young people a bigger choice." So the good news is that: A) you are getting a choice, and B) you are now officially a young person   (nytimes.com) divider line 67
    More: Amusing, entitlement reform, American health care, Golan Heights, health cares, youths  
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678 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Aug 2012 at 1:41 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-16 11:32:30 AM
Don't worry, guys. Romney/Ryan will cut taxes for the super-rich, a solution that always solves our problems.
 
2012-08-16 11:41:05 AM
Your choices:

Romney/Ryan: Do you want Medicare?
54-year-old: Yes
Romney/Ryan: Well you can't have it
Romney/Ryan: Do you want a voucher system?
54-year-old: NO!
Romney/Ryan: Well you're getting it
 
2012-08-16 11:41:44 AM
My question: if the Ryan/Romney plan is go great and offers so much great choice, why aren't they proposing it for EVERYONE?

Why deprive current seniors of these wonderful new provisions? Don't people aged 55 and over deserve the same chance for the magical happiness this plan is sure to unleash?

Either Ryan/Romney...

1) hate today's old people and want them to suffer or

2) they're lying about their plan and its impact and are trying to avoid the political fallout from scrapping an incredibly popular and efficient government program in favor of a grossly incompetent privatized insurance system that will be a disaster for the most vulnerable elderly people.
 
2012-08-16 11:49:57 AM
SS and medicare are considered the "3rd rail" of politics, because of its popularity with older citizens, and demographic that votes heavily.

Republicans come out with a medicare plan, and promise those over 55 it won't affect them at all.

If that doesn't sound like flat out pandering, I don't know what does.
 
2012-08-16 12:12:40 PM
Well, it's true. If the cops RICO your car, you then have a choice of walking, crawling, trotting, capering, or sauntering. Things are looking up!
 
2012-08-16 12:16:52 PM

impaler: SS and medicare are considered the "3rd rail" of politics, because of its popularity with older citizens, and demographic that votes heavily.

Republicans come out with a medicare plan, and promise those over 55 it won't affect them at all.

If that doesn't sound like flat out pandering, I don't know what does.


It is an extremely poor strategy. They already have the selfish old people's vote locked-up. They are assuming all other older people don't have kids and only give a shiat about themselves. Plus they will lose large numbers of vote in the
All Obama has to do is play the Medicare and taxes issue until the election and he wins in a landslide.
 
2012-08-16 12:21:10 PM

mrshowrules: impaler: SS and medicare are considered the "3rd rail" of politics, because of its popularity with older citizens, and demographic that votes heavily.

Republicans come out with a medicare plan, and promise those over 55 it won't affect them at all.

If that doesn't sound like flat out pandering, I don't know what does.

It is an extremely poor strategy. They already have the selfish old people's vote locked-up. They are assuming all other older people don't have kids and only give a shiat about themselves. Plus they will lose large numbers of vote in the
All Obama has to do is play the Medicare and taxes issue until the election and he wins in a landslide.


Unfortunately Romney/Ryan are counting on the "Americans are idiots" strategy (which is pretty much true) and are putting out commercials saying "Evil Obama cut $700 billion from Medicare! He is trying to cut your Medicare and hurt you! Romney/Ryan will restore that money! Vote for us!" and idiot Americans will believe all that BS and not realize the opposite is true: Obama saved Medicare and Romney/Ryan are going to make it go away.
 
2012-08-16 12:38:30 PM

Walker: mrshowrules: impaler: SS and medicare are considered the "3rd rail" of politics, because of its popularity with older citizens, and demographic that votes heavily.

Republicans come out with a medicare plan, and promise those over 55 it won't affect them at all.

If that doesn't sound like flat out pandering, I don't know what does.

It is an extremely poor strategy. They already have the selfish old people's vote locked-up. They are assuming all other older people don't have kids and only give a shiat about themselves. Plus they will lose large numbers of vote in the
All Obama has to do is play the Medicare and taxes issue until the election and he wins in a landslide.

Unfortunately Romney/Ryan are counting on the "Americans are idiots" strategy (which is pretty much true) and are putting out commercials saying "Evil Obama cut $700 billion from Medicare! He is trying to cut your Medicare and hurt you! Romney/Ryan will restore that money! Vote for us!" and idiot Americans will believe all that BS and not realize the opposite is true: Obama saved Medicare and Romney/Ryan are going to make it go away.


I know it is impossible to underestimate the intelligence of the American electorate but even a complete lie must be supported by a believable narrative. The GOP as the protectors of Medicare is just not something you can sell people no matter how much you lie.
 
2012-08-16 01:00:13 PM
The massive tax cuts for the wealthy need to be paid for somehow.

And I'd love to see Mitt's tax return from 2009.
 
2012-08-16 01:04:13 PM
Ok, so if I'm a couple years shy of the magic age, I need to assume that I'm going to be paying the highest tax burden now for current retirees, but I also need to vastly increase my own savings, in case the free market decides it isn't profitable to keep me alive for a $450/month "voucher"?

I got a better idea. You want to kill off Medicare? Fine. Let's kill it, completely, one day after President Romney takes office. Otherwise, I don't see this generational trust thing working out too well.
 
2012-08-16 01:12:08 PM

Marcus Aurelius: The massive tax cuts for the wealthy need to be paid for somehow.

And I'd love to see Mitt's tax return from 2009.


Why 2009?
 
2012-08-16 01:17:59 PM

mrshowrules: Marcus Aurelius: The massive tax cuts for the wealthy need to be paid for somehow.

And I'd love to see Mitt's tax return from 2009.

Why 2009?


I hesitate to answer for Marcus Aurelius...but, this might be what he's alluding to: Did Mitt Romney Take the 2009 Swiss Bank Account Amnesty?
 
2012-08-16 01:33:03 PM
It's simple, citizen! Just work at a job that provides health insurance until the day you die! Retirement is a burden only to be borne by the elite -- idle hands, don'tcha know?
 
2012-08-16 01:43:32 PM
Wait... since when can we put exclamation points in headlines?
 
2012-08-16 01:44:02 PM

MisterTweak: Ok, so if I'm a couple years shy of the magic age, I need to assume that I'm going to be paying the highest tax burden now for current retirees, but I also need to vastly increase my own savings, in case the free market decides it isn't profitable to keep me alive for a $450/month "voucher"?


Yup.

You also are dumped into Medicare Fee-For-Service (or a commercial equivalent) which retains the right to retroactively deny any coverage they decide wasn't medically required. You pay extra for this service.
 
2012-08-16 01:44:43 PM

hillbillypharmacist: Well, it's true. If the cops RICO your car, you then have a choice of walking, crawling, trotting, capering, or sauntering. Things are looking up!


And if you don't want to pay your taxes, you're free to spend a weekend with the Pain Monster!
media.comicvine.com
 
2012-08-16 01:48:04 PM

mrshowrules: impaler: SS and medicare are considered the "3rd rail" of politics, because of its popularity with older citizens, and demographic that votes heavily.

Republicans come out with a medicare plan, and promise those over 55 it won't affect them at all.

If that doesn't sound like flat out pandering, I don't know what does.

It is an extremely poor strategy. They already have the selfish old people's vote locked-up. They are assuming all other older people don't have kids and only give a shiat about themselves. Plus they will lose large numbers of vote in the
All Obama has to do is play the Medicare and taxes issue until the election and he wins in a landslide.


Old people - even the ones who know this plan won't affect them - are against the Ryan plan.
 
2012-08-16 01:52:29 PM

eraser8: mrshowrules: Marcus Aurelius: The massive tax cuts for the wealthy need to be paid for somehow.

And I'd love to see Mitt's tax return from 2009.

Why 2009?

I hesitate to answer for Marcus Aurelius...but, this might be what he's alluding to: Did Mitt Romney Take the 2009 Swiss Bank Account Amnesty?


You people have no right to see that. They've released all they're going to, and furthermore, you people should look at his record. Look what he's done with his finances. Look everywhere else, but don't look there. You people don't understand that if he released more tax information, it will just be used by the evil opposition to attack him, his wife, his five KenDoll progeny, and even poor, poor Rafalco, who is an American equine Olympic hero!

/Blind trusts are PEOPLE, my friend.
//Poor Daddy George must be spinning in his grave.
///Why does this guy want to be President?
 
2012-08-16 01:52:39 PM
Picture your grandma. She's old, and enjoys such activities such as sitting on the couch and forgetting that she already took her pills that morning. You still get a $10 check every year in the mail from her wishing you a happy birthday... in the wrong month. This is a woman who is utterly terrified of using any technology more advanced than a VHS tape deck. A walk to the grocery store down the block takes an hour and a walker, and that's not counting the time wasted yelling at clouds.

Now picture your grandma with a $5,000 voucher check trying to navigate the American health care system without being taken advantage of. The same demographic that, year after year, is falling for Nigerian scams, driveway sealant scams, and all variations of schemes that "prey on the elderly," is going to be handed a check, pushed into shark infested waters, and told to figure it out for yourselves because the free market can't be wrong.
 
2012-08-16 01:53:28 PM

mrshowrules: Walker: mrshowrules: impaler: SS and medicare are considered the "3rd rail" of politics, because of its popularity with older citizens, and demographic that votes heavily.

Republicans come out with a medicare plan, and promise those over 55 it won't affect them at all.

If that doesn't sound like flat out pandering, I don't know what does.

It is an extremely poor strategy. They already have the selfish old people's vote locked-up. They are assuming all other older people don't have kids and only give a shiat about themselves. Plus they will lose large numbers of vote in the
All Obama has to do is play the Medicare and taxes issue until the election and he wins in a landslide.

Unfortunately Romney/Ryan are counting on the "Americans are idiots" strategy (which is pretty much true) and are putting out commercials saying "Evil Obama cut $700 billion from Medicare! He is trying to cut your Medicare and hurt you! Romney/Ryan will restore that money! Vote for us!" and idiot Americans will believe all that BS and not realize the opposite is true: Obama saved Medicare and Romney/Ryan are going to make it go away.

I know it is impossible to underestimate the intelligence of the American electorate but even a complete lie must be supported by a believable narrative. The GOP as the protectors of Medicare is just not something you can sell people no matter how much you lie.


Because they are blaming Obama they will be able to get away with the lie. Conservatives have created a narrative that all true republicans are good (rinos being a traitor to the cause) and all democrats are bad (though people like Gov Perry are good for switching sides).

It also has the advantage of making the media do their job and that means the liberal mainstream MSM media is attacking a truth telling conservative. Conservatives will lap it up and with very few willing to tell the truth to many regular people will also believe the lie.

Welcome to the world where both sides have to be presented as creditable nowadays :(
 
2012-08-16 01:53:42 PM
I have a feeling vouchers are coming one way or another, to be followed by heavy penalties for not using your voucher for an approved health care plan.
 
2012-08-16 01:55:23 PM
I love how the right is trying to pass this as an improvement to Medicare. At least no one outside of the right-wing GOP groupthink buys this BS.
 
2012-08-16 01:55:37 PM
And C: If you thought your Medicare taxes were high, wait till your forced into private insurance in your old age. Good luck with all that.


I'm 55, I'm voting for Obama (anybody over 55 who is OK with these asses taking away Medicare because "fark you,I've got mine" is a heartless fark.)
 
2012-08-16 01:57:44 PM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Now picture your grandma with a $5,000 voucher check trying to navigate the American health care system without being taken advantage of. The same demographic that, year after year, is falling for Nigerian scams, driveway sealant scams, and all variations of schemes that "prey on the elderly," is going to be handed a check, pushed into shark infested waters, and told to figure it out for yourselves because the free market can't be wrong.


So what your saying is the Ryan/Romney plan will set up the baby boomer generation to die off much earlier than currently predicted? The same generation that is just finishing up screwing all of the rest of us younger folk?

That's the best argument I've heard yet to vote for that tax dodging (prove me wrong!) a$$hole

/very bitter today apparently
 
2012-08-16 01:58:17 PM
AS a 29 year old, any bill that doesnt have an "opt out and receive what you have put in" clause in it for those of us not deemed politically untouchable should be seen as class and generational warfare and theft.
 
2012-08-16 01:58:50 PM
Oh right, the one's who screwed us are rich enough that this won't matter and will only continue to get richer if the GOP has their way...

Forgot about that part.
 
2012-08-16 01:59:15 PM

mrshowrules: impaler: SS and medicare are considered the "3rd rail" of politics, because of its popularity with older citizens, and demographic that votes heavily.

Republicans come out with a medicare plan, and promise those over 55 it won't affect them at all.

If that doesn't sound like flat out pandering, I don't know what does.

It is an extremely poor strategy. They already have the selfish old people's vote locked-up. They are assuming all other older people don't have kids and only give a shiat about themselves. Plus they will lose large numbers of vote in the
All Obama has to do is play the Medicare and taxes issue until the election and he wins in a landslide.


I keep saying this, but that selfish old people segment doesn't want the Ryan plan. Link
 
2012-08-16 01:59:41 PM
Can I seriously ask what kind of idiot would think that having private insurance when you're over 55 is better than the system we have now in terms of quality?

Doesn't Medicare Advantage prove that the private sector can't fix everything?
 
2012-08-16 02:00:02 PM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Picture your grandma. She's old, and enjoys such activities such as sitting on the couch and forgetting that she already took her pills that morning. You still get a $10 check every year in the mail from her wishing you a happy birthday... in the wrong month. This is a woman who is utterly terrified of using any technology more advanced than a VHS tape deck. A walk to the grocery store down the block takes an hour and a walker, and that's not counting the time wasted yelling at clouds.

Now picture your grandma with a $5,000 voucher check trying to navigate the American health care system without being taken advantage of. The same demographic that, year after year, is falling for Nigerian scams, driveway sealant scams, and all variations of schemes that "prey on the elderly," is going to be handed a check, pushed into shark infested waters, and told to figure it out for yourselves because the free market can't be wrong.


See this is how RyanCare will create jobs. People will happily become your Grandmothers Insurance Advisor for the low, low fee of $2,500.00/year*.

*Does not include service and handling fee, document fee and fuel surcharge.
 
2012-08-16 02:01:46 PM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Picture your grandma. She's old, and enjoys such activities such as sitting on the couch and forgetting that she already took her pills that morning. You still get a $10 check every year in the mail from her wishing you a happy birthday... in the wrong month. This is a woman who is utterly terrified of using any technology more advanced than a VHS tape deck. A walk to the grocery store down the block takes an hour and a walker, and that's not counting the time wasted yelling at clouds.

Now picture your grandma with a $5,000 voucher check trying to navigate the American health care system without being taken advantage of. The same demographic that, year after year, is falling for Nigerian scams, driveway sealant scams, and all variations of schemes that "prey on the elderly," is going to be handed a check, pushed into shark infested waters, and told to figure it out for yourselves because the free market can't be wrong.


------------------

No shiat. I made the mistake of starting my own company in America and I had to buy individual health insurance. It was the most awful, confusing, demeaning, and frustrating consumer experience I've ever had.

The free market has had its shot with health insurance and it has devolved into an insane maze of paperwork and underwriters that is designed to reject anyone who actually needs healthcare. fark them - they failed, and it's time for someone that isn't purely profit based to step in and correct all the glaring flaws in the way we provide healthcare services in this country.
 
2012-08-16 02:01:54 PM

Brostorm: AS a 29 year old, any bill that doesnt have an "opt out and receive what you have put in" clause in it for those of us not deemed politically untouchable should be seen as class and generational warfare and theft.


I actually kind of like this, because there are a lot of old idiots that will thin themselves out by opting for it. Only provision I would add is that anything already paid out is deducted from your payout, and you aren't allowed back in.
 
2012-08-16 02:02:54 PM
I turn 55 in two weeks-I can see now that I am probably screwed.
 
2012-08-16 02:05:49 PM

IrateShadow: Brostorm: AS a 29 year old, any bill that doesnt have an "opt out and receive what you have put in" clause in it for those of us not deemed politically untouchable should be seen as class and generational warfare and theft.

I actually kind of like this, because there are a lot of old idiots that will thin themselves out by opting for it. Only provision I would add is that anything already paid out is deducted from your payout, and you aren't allowed back in.


I'm fine with that. These "fark you got mine" leeches get far more out of medicare and social security than they put in.
 
2012-08-16 02:06:24 PM

IrateShadow: I actually kind of like this, because there are a lot of old idiots that will thin themselves out by opting for it.


Unless the plan includes enabling hospitals to turn away the uninsured sick and dying,it's just going to mean the rest of us pay for caring for the uninsured. Although I would not put it past the GOP to make it against the law to offer medical care to the uninsured,that's the way they roll.
 
2012-08-16 02:11:19 PM
I also love how they're basically admitting that they're screwing people over by letting people 55 and over have the current good Medicare.

It's like "Hey don't worry, anyone old enough to be paying attention to Medicare will be fine. It's just the younger people we're going to fark. Medicare isn't on their radar yet, so we're gonna screw them sideways."

If the Ryan plan were truly an upgrade to Medicare, it should take effect immediately for everyone. Anything less than that is a tacit admission of a downgrade in services.
 
2012-08-16 02:13:02 PM
"I am 54! How come nobody cares about my health care?"

Because you're a boomer and everybody hates your generation and their continued demands for free stuff from the kids you helped set up for failure.

/should've died before you got old
 
2012-08-16 02:14:38 PM

balloot: I also love how they're basically admitting that they're screwing people over by letting people 55 and over have the current good Medicare.


I would love to see a reporter ask Ryan if he thinks the 55+ are getting the better or worse deal out of the two groups.
 
2012-08-16 02:17:13 PM

balloot: Anything less than that is a tacit admission of a downgrade in services.


And yet not one "media personality" can be bothered to bring that simple point up. Just like they can't bring up that "Romney gives 10% of his income to charity" really means "Romney gives 10% of his income to the Mormon church".
 
2012-08-16 02:19:44 PM

sprawl15: I would love to see a reporter ask Ryan if he thinks the 55+ are getting the better or worse deal out of the two groups.


If he was under a truth-o-scope maybe. Otherwise it would sound a lot like this:

"It's not about better or worse, it's about fixing the current unsustainable system in phases so as not to be a shock to the country all at once...both groups will end up having comparable health care while fixing the issues at hand"

/typical political BS

They use polygraphs for getting a security clearance....how about we have the debates using polygraphs?
 
2012-08-16 02:20:52 PM
The private sector can solve anything. What's wrong with you people?

Look at the private prison industry. Don't we have more prisoners than the rest of the world combined? That's massive growth! It's awesome. Privatizing Medicare would do the same thing. It's what Jesus would've wanted. Health Care CEO's will make triple, too.

C'mon. These guys are barely making ends meet.

Executives in the top spots at the country's seven largest publicly traded health plans were paid a collective $87 million for their services in 2011.

Cigna CEO David Cordani made the most, at $19.1 million. Humana's Mike McCallister had the smallest compensation package, with $7.3 million. Health Net CEO Jay Gellert saw the largest pay increase, with a 35% rise in compensation compared with 2010. Most chief executives' compensation went up, although WellPoint's Angela Braly saw her compensation fall by 2%, and Coventry Health Care CEO Allen Wise made 5% less in 2011 than in 2010.

The base pay of most CEOs is around $1 million, because of tax rules on executive salaries. But in every case, other financial rewards pushed the total pay packages into the multimillions. In 2011, Cordani made 94 times the average primary care physician's compensation, using the latest Medical Group Management Assn. figures.
 
2012-08-16 02:22:06 PM

sprawl15: balloot: I also love how they're basically admitting that they're screwing people over by letting people 55 and over have the current good Medicare.

I would love to see a reporter ask Ryan if he thinks the 55+ are getting the better or worse deal out of the two groups.


Why? Do you think he will be in the least embarrassed by trotting out the slick lies prepared for this occasion?
 
2012-08-16 02:22:34 PM

shastacola: And yet not one "media personality" can be bothered to bring that simple point up. Just like they can't bring up that "Romney gives 10% of his income to charity" really means "Romney gives 10% of his income to the Mormon church".


Well since we haven't seen his tax returns the 10% can't be proven to have gone to charity, the church, or most likely, his offshore accounts.
 
2012-08-16 02:22:55 PM

balloot: I also love how they're basically admitting that they're screwing people over by letting people 55 and over have the current good Medicare.

It's like "Hey don't worry, anyone old enough to be paying attention to Medicare will be fine. It's just the younger people we're going to fark. Medicare isn't on their radar yet, so we're gonna screw them sideways."

If the Ryan plan were truly an upgrade to Medicare, it should take effect immediately for everyone. Anything less than that is a tacit admission of a downgrade in services.


And they're counting on everyone over 55 being a "fark you, I got mine" Republican on this issue.

Fact of the day: people over 55 often have children, sometimes even grand-children, and they care deeply for these people.
 
2012-08-16 02:48:08 PM

Walker: "Evil Obama cut $700 billion from Medicare! He is trying to cut your Medicare and hurt you! Romney/Ryan will restore that money! Vote for us!"


Is that before or after Obama prevents service men and women from voting in Ohio? I get my derp mixed up.
 
2012-08-16 02:49:26 PM

impaler: And they're counting on everyone over 55 being a "fark you, I got mine" Republican on this issue.

Fact of the day: people over 55 often have children, sometimes even grand-children, and they care deeply for these people.


Caring about other's welfare is not concept that Romney can relate to.
 
2012-08-16 02:50:44 PM

Graffito: impaler: And they're counting on everyone over 55 being a "fark you, I got mine" Republican on this issue.

Fact of the day: people over 55 often have children, sometimes even grand-children, and they care deeply for these people.

Caring about other's welfare is not concept that Romney Republicans can relate to.


FTFY
 
2012-08-16 02:58:14 PM

hillbillypharmacist: Wait... since when can we put exclamation points in headlines?


IIRC there is a way of doing that, but I'm not exactly sure what the procedure is. However, in this case I put the exclamation point in after it had been greened since it no longer trips the filter. That way it matches the quote taken from the article, which I assume was the submitter's intent.
 
2012-08-16 03:03:55 PM

eraser8: My question: if the Ryan/Romney plan is go great and offers so much great choice, why aren't they proposing it for EVERYONE?

Why deprive current seniors of these wonderful new provisions? Don't people aged 55 and over deserve the same chance for the magical happiness this plan is sure to unleash?

Either Ryan/Romney...

1) hate today's old people and want them to suffer or

2) they're lying about their plan and its impact and are trying to avoid the political fallout from scrapping an incredibly popular and efficient government program in favor of a grossly incompetent privatized insurance system that will be a disaster for the most vulnerable elderly people.


Or you could go for the more logical answers:

3) whether it's good or not, seniors don't want any changes to their current system, and it's politically unwise to suggest them.

4) implementing the plan will take time to set up both for the government and providers, and rushing into it is a bad idea. Better iron out the specific details first before rolling it out nationwide.

5) educating people on how the new system works will take time, and it would be burdensome for people to have to navigate the old system only to be transitioned into the new system later on.
 
2012-08-16 03:08:57 PM
To a Republican's mind, the middle-aged are young people.

Take the Republican use of the words "youthful indiscretion", for example Senator George's Allen displaying a Star and Bars in his office. This "youthful indiscretion" occured when he was already a politician in his late forties or early fifties. A "youthful indiscretion" is what a Republican calls a December-May relationship, or becoming a super-cougar.

A Republican doesn't remember what it is like to be young even at 12. They don't remember what it is like to be middle-aged most of the time. Coming out of the closet at 55 is a youthful indiscretion as much as being a liberal or a Democrat at 65. In fact, Republicanoids characterize all people they don't like as children: women, children, teenagers, adults, non-whites, gays, you name it. You're not a grown up unless you share their God (Mammon), their obsession (making sex impossible for other people) or their dogma, whole hog and without reservation (see "Rino").

Of course, to a liberal a Republican is a man-child in a state of arrested development, just as a husband is just a larger, more demanding child to a woman. The difference is that many Republicans have no self-awareness, no sense of irony or little voice telling them to look in the mirror. There's a layer of civilization missing there. They may be moral people, even adults, but they just haven't evolved the ability to escape from their own heads and their cultural blinkers. On the scale of human development from stage one to stage six, they are usually stuck at three, especially in dealings with people who are not members of their tribe, narrowly defined.
 
2012-08-16 03:11:13 PM

eraser8: mrshowrules: Marcus Aurelius: The massive tax cuts for the wealthy need to be paid for somehow.

And I'd love to see Mitt's tax return from 2009.

Why 2009?

I hesitate to answer for Marcus Aurelius...but, this might be what he's alluding to: Did Mitt Romney Take the 2009 Swiss Bank Account Amnesty?


Very interesting. Obama should ask for just 2009 to see what happens.
 
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