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(Yahoo)   "Joe Paterno broke down and cried the day after he was dismissed as Penn State's coach." No word if he cried as hard as Sandusky's victims   (sports.yahoo.com) divider line 244
    More: Dumbass, Joe Paterno, Penn State, Jerry Sandusky, Joe Posnanski, Big League Stew, Nittany Lions, Plain and Simple, Melky Cabrera  
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1318 clicks; posted to Sports » on 16 Aug 2012 at 1:40 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-16 02:28:24 PM  
"He cried and failed?"
"He cried and died."
 
2012-08-16 02:35:03 PM  

Dr.Knockboots: Winningest coach in college football


What does John Gagliardi have to do with this?
 
2012-08-16 02:43:12 PM  

IlGreven: BritneysSpeculum: GAT_00: Hey, that horse still has a little bit of life left in it! Let's beat it some more and think it somehow makes us better people!

Paterno was crying because he knew that he was going to be exposed for harboring a pedophile. Until the Penn State community comes to grips with that fact, that horse must be continued to be beaten. There are still people in Happy Valley that believe that the Freeh report made up those emails. They must be beaten.

...y'know, for the children.

Face it, you don't care for the actual victims anymore than Sandusky did. You're still looking for your witch, despite the fact that pretty much everyone directly involved has been punished. You're now down to quaternary links to the crime, but they deserve it because they didn't immediately say Paterno was the spawn of Satan, or they're not bending over and taking their punishment with a big smile on their face. It doesn't matter to you that no one is directly defending the actual crime; the only reason that they deserve everything they get is because they don't agree with you.  Thus, it's permissible to fly a message over the school promoting vigilante action if a frigging statue stays up. Y'know...for the children.


I'm sorry, but when Penn State students are saying that the NCAA raped their football program more than Sandusky did those kids, they deserve everything coming to them (and yes, many of them have said just that via twitter/facebook) . There's such a huge disconnect between what a football program should represent, and what it does respresent to them. Most are just fanatic loyalists.
 
2012-08-16 02:44:06 PM  

Aarontology: If you condemn someone for aiding and abetting child rape


...except you're not. You're condemning someone for deigning to not think someone who aided and abetted child rape was always a monster and never did anything good. You're not going after Paterno, you're going after those who don't share your opinion that Paterno was evil incarnate.
 
2012-08-16 02:46:45 PM  

IlGreven: Aarontology: If you condemn someone for aiding and abetting child rape

...except you're not. You're condemning someone for deigning to not think someone who aided and abetted child rape was always a monster and never did anything good. You're not going after Paterno, you're going after those who don't share your opinion that Paterno was evil incarnate.


I don't think anyone is saying Joe Paterno is the world's greatest villian, nor should they, but it's not like he bounced a check at the liquor store. He covered up child sex abuse going on in the very football facilities over which he maintained control to protect the Penn State football brand and pursue his own ambitions. And then some people act like that very institution should not face consequences for that.
 
2012-08-16 02:52:35 PM  

Nabb1: He covered up child sex abuse going on in the very football facilities over which he maintained control to protect the Penn State football brand and pursue his own ambitions.


The first part is questionable and basically depends on us to trust Spanier, Curley, et al., who are currently trying to keep themselves out of prison.
The second part is pure conjecture, and may not even be true, depending on the outcome of the FBI investigation.
 
2012-08-16 02:54:02 PM  

bluorangefyre: GAT_00: Hey, that horse still has a little bit of life left in it! Let's beat it some more and think it somehow makes us better people!

THIS!

/and by the way, I will not rest until Bowdenhole has some of his wins vacated


Are you Rip Van Winkle or something? Bowden had part of the 2006 season and all of the 2007 season vacated due to using ineligible players from that academic scandal.

Mar 6, 2009
The NCAA Division I Committee on Infractions has placed Florida State University on probation for four years, reduced scholarships, vacated records and issued show-cause penalties for former staff members because of major violations in its athletics program. The case involved academic fraud affecting more than 60 student-athletes across 10 sports, as well as impermissible benefits, unethical conduct by three former academic support services staff members, and a failure to monitor by the university.

Vacation of all wins in which the 61 student-athletes in the sports of football, men's and women's basketball, men's and women's swimming, men's and women's track, men's golf, baseball and softball competed while ineligible during 2006 and 2007.


http://www.webcitation.org/5gpFz6Xq8
 
2012-08-16 02:54:39 PM  

scottydoesntknow: IlGreven: BritneysSpeculum: GAT_00: Hey, that horse still has a little bit of life left in it! Let's beat it some more and think it somehow makes us better people!

Paterno was crying because he knew that he was going to be exposed for harboring a pedophile. Until the Penn State community comes to grips with that fact, that horse must be continued to be beaten. There are still people in Happy Valley that believe that the Freeh report made up those emails. They must be beaten.

...y'know, for the children.

Face it, you don't care for the actual victims anymore than Sandusky did. You're still looking for your witch, despite the fact that pretty much everyone directly involved has been punished. You're now down to quaternary links to the crime, but they deserve it because they didn't immediately say Paterno was the spawn of Satan, or they're not bending over and taking their punishment with a big smile on their face. It doesn't matter to you that no one is directly defending the actual crime; the only reason that they deserve everything they get is because they don't agree with you.  Thus, it's permissible to fly a message over the school promoting vigilante action if a frigging statue stays up. Y'know...for the children.

I'm sorry, but when Penn State students are saying that the NCAA raped their football program more than Sandusky did those kids, they deserve everything coming to them (and yes, many of them have said just that via twitter/facebook) . There's such a huge disconnect between what a football program should represent, and what it does respresent to them. Most are just fanatic loyalists.


Wow, what 20 people say on Facebook speaks for the, what, 30,000 students of the university? Damn. And 20 you cherry picked too, ignoring what the other students said. Those few you've decided to be angry about really matter, and nobody lies on the Internet.
 
2012-08-16 02:58:12 PM  

IAmRight: Nabb1: He covered up child sex abuse going on in the very football facilities over which he maintained control to protect the Penn State football brand and pursue his own ambitions.

The first part is questionable and basically depends on us to trust Spanier, Curley, et al., who are currently trying to keep themselves out of prison.
The second part is pure conjecture, and may not even be true, depending on the outcome of the FBI investigation.


If the first part is true (which most Freeh Report readers accept, but whatever), can you come up with a more logical motive?
 
2012-08-16 02:58:48 PM  

GAT_00: Wow, what 20 people say on Facebook speaks for the, what, 30,000 students of the university? Damn. And 20 you cherry picked too, ignoring what the other students said. Those few you've decided to be angry about really matter, and nobody lies on the Internet.


4000 active students rioted in "support" of paterno. can't blame internet trolls or low numbers for that
 
2012-08-16 02:59:42 PM  
ACCESSORY

AFTER

THE FACT

Yes, Joe Paterno is guilty of a crime. A big one.

Quit defending him, you pathetic f*cking apologists.
 
2012-08-16 03:01:29 PM  

GAT_00: scottydoesntknow: IlGreven: BritneysSpeculum: GAT_00: Hey, that horse still has a little bit of life left in it! Let's beat it some more and think it somehow makes us better people!

Paterno was crying because he knew that he was going to be exposed for harboring a pedophile. Until the Penn State community comes to grips with that fact, that horse must be continued to be beaten. There are still people in Happy Valley that believe that the Freeh report made up those emails. They must be beaten.

...y'know, for the children.

Face it, you don't care for the actual victims anymore than Sandusky did. You're still looking for your witch, despite the fact that pretty much everyone directly involved has been punished. You're now down to quaternary links to the crime, but they deserve it because they didn't immediately say Paterno was the spawn of Satan, or they're not bending over and taking their punishment with a big smile on their face. It doesn't matter to you that no one is directly defending the actual crime; the only reason that they deserve everything they get is because they don't agree with you.  Thus, it's permissible to fly a message over the school promoting vigilante action if a frigging statue stays up. Y'know...for the children.

I'm sorry, but when Penn State students are saying that the NCAA raped their football program more than Sandusky did those kids, they deserve everything coming to them (and yes, many of them have said just that via twitter/facebook) . There's such a huge disconnect between what a football program should represent, and what it does respresent to them. Most are just fanatic loyalists.

Wow, what 20 people say on Facebook speaks for the, what, 30,000 students of the university? Damn. And 20 you cherry picked too, ignoring what the other students said. Those few you've decided to be angry about really matter, and nobody lies on the Internet.


JoePa won't fark you, because he's dead.

Everyone else will keep happily beating a dead Paterno, which I have no problem with. His whole career should be dragged through the mud and hung up as an example of how not to manage a devastating situation. The fact that many (not just 20) are still defending him (and calling the Freeh report a lie only meant to blame a dead guy) is just another nail in the coffin.

If you don't think JoePa's motivations were entirely selfish, then you're just as deluded as the other Penn State apologists.
 
2012-08-16 03:03:11 PM  

IAmRight: Nabb1: He covered up child sex abuse going on in the very football facilities over which he maintained control to protect the Penn State football brand and pursue his own ambitions.

The first part is questionable and basically depends on us to trust Spanier, Curley, et al., who are currently trying to keep themselves out of prison.
The second part is pure conjecture, and may not even be true, depending on the outcome of the FBI investigation.


Do you have an evidence the Freeh report is inaccurate as to Paterno's actions? It's not like the allegations regarding Paterno would exonerate Curley and Spanier. As for the second part, why else would he want it swept under the rug?
 
2012-08-16 03:03:43 PM  
Why do I keep looking on these links? Why do I keep torturing myself with this?

People wanted blood, they got it. They'll keep getting it.
 
2012-08-16 03:04:03 PM  

PowerSlacker: If the first part is true (which most Freeh Report readers accept, but whatever), can you come up with a more logical motive?


The Freeh report depends solely upon evidence provided by those people, and Paterno was not able to provide anything from his side on account of being dead and not directly quoted in emails because he didn't use them. Now, if it is true, then there are any number of reasons, some of which may come to light with the FBI report.
 
2012-08-16 03:05:45 PM  
Most people cry after they get fired from a job they love. Especially if they've been doing it for decades. Hey, I think he and his staff were scum for covering things up and deserved to lose everything because of it, but I'm not going to assign additional motive to his tears for my own edification.

He got fired from a career he loved and dedicated his entire life to. Some tears were in order. Doesn't change the fact that he shiat the bed in the one instance he could have made the most difference.
 
2012-08-16 03:08:08 PM  

AngryPanda: Why do I keep looking on these links? Why do I keep torturing myself with this?

People wanted blood, they got it. They'll keep getting it.


Loss of scholarships over four years is not "blood." A loss of bowl appearances is not "blood." The bleeding some of Sandusky's victims described is blood.
 
2012-08-16 03:10:56 PM  
img521.imageshack.us

For all of you Joe Pa apologists and defenders: This won't hurt a bit.
 
2012-08-16 03:12:30 PM  

IAmRight: PowerSlacker: If the first part is true (which most Freeh Report readers accept, but whatever), can you come up with a more logical motive?

The Freeh report depends solely upon evidence provided by those people, and Paterno was not able to provide anything from his side on account of being dead and not directly quoted in emails because he didn't use them. Now, if it is true, then there are any number of reasons, some of which may come to light with the FBI report.


Paterno used email.

It took me four seconds to learn this by Googling the phrase "joe paterno email".

Try again.
 
2012-08-16 03:23:50 PM  
Geez, that's the *sniffle, snort!* saddest story excerpt I've ever read! Is it just me, or is it a little dusty dusky in this locker room?
 
2012-08-16 03:30:27 PM  
he still has the NCAA record for enabling the rape of children! 

/ the whole enabling child rape thing puts his rambling "the kids who were victims, whatever they want to say.... it's a tough life when people do certain things to you" statement into context
 
2012-08-16 03:36:43 PM  

GAT_00: He had his life destroyed for a crime he didn't commit.


Wrong.
 
2012-08-16 03:36:47 PM  

Mugato: BritneysSpeculum: Wouldn't his Weeners be anger

Weeners be Anger. Band name.


Weeners be Anger dot tumblr dot com
 
2012-08-16 03:37:18 PM  

GAT_00: The admins delete my comments in here a lot, but I bet I mention the board more than anyone else.


Wrong and wrong.
 
2012-08-16 03:38:29 PM  
For the umpteenth time:

"That's why I have decided to announce my retirement effective at the end of this season. At this moment the Board of Trustees should not spend a single minute discussing my status. They have far more important matters to address. I want to make this as easy for them as I possibly can."

He publicly called out the board, and decided he can determine the terms of his own exit, in the middle of the biggest sh*tstorm in the history collegiate athletics. Yeah, real humility, there.
 
2012-08-16 03:39:50 PM  

Banacek: I get to be self-righteous because I never raped anyone, and never protected someone who did. It's amazing how that works.


This.
 
2012-08-16 03:42:05 PM  

GAT_00: adamgreeney: GAT_00: mahuika: GAT_00: I was mocking other people in here, I assume IAmRight was too. Because that's what all the self-righteous people in here sound like

I don't get it. Are they claiming to read minds because they are assuming that Joe Paterno was not lying when he explained why he was crying, or are they claiming to read minds because they think Joe Paterno should have reported his coworker to the authorities after finding out about the whole kid rape thing?

I don't know what they are saying, you'll have to ask them. I'm just mocking what they sound like.

And I'm pretty sure someone said basically the same thing to me at least one, but they were serious.

I missed 90% of your comments in these threads, so I am honestly asking why you are so vehement in defending the administration and football staff of Penn State. You certainly don't give that kind of deference to the Catholic Church

Actually, I've attacked the administration, in particular the Board that commissioned the Freeh report that absolved them of all blame and dropped it all on JoePa since he was good and dead. Nobody who pretends to care in these threads is calling for the Board to resign, since they are the ones Paterno reported Sandusky to and who buried everything. But this whole this is a media campaign and the mob here is happily braying along, happy to hurt innocent people and ignore the guilty in their supposed zeal.


Nobody's called for the board to resign? THAT'S your stance? You pay less attention than I thought.

Everyone in these threads wants to destroy the institution that enabled child rape. That ESPECIALLY includes the board
 
2012-08-16 03:48:55 PM  

Killer Cars: He publicly called out the board, and decided he can determine the terms of his own exit, in the middle of the biggest sh*tstorm in the history collegiate athletics. Yeah, real humility, there.


Keep in mind a few years earlier when the AD wanted to fire him Paterno told him he can't fire him.
 
2012-08-16 03:52:20 PM  

HaywoodJablonski: Nobody's called for the board to resign? THAT'S your stance? You pay less attention than I thought.


Especially seeing as how he's reminded of that EVERY SINGLE TIME he starts white knighting Paterno or Penn State.
 
2012-08-16 03:52:47 PM  

PowerSlacker: It took me four seconds to learn this by Googling the phrase "joe paterno email".


Ah, sure, he used a secretary's account for something several years later and unrelated. Meanwhile, related to the case, there are no emails except one of them saying "I spoke to Joe and then I decided against it."

The My Little Pony Killer: Banacek: I get to be self-righteous because I never raped anyone, and never protected someone who did. It's amazing how that works.

This.


Well, you never knowingly did. But you've probably known someone who did rape someone (hell, by the legal definition, if you're a guy and you've had a drunken hookup, you're a rapist) and didn't turn them in. Oh sure, you might've supposedly thought that they didn't do it, but you really should've known.

/can't remember if any of you were defending Roethlisberger or not, which would be pretty damn hilarious
 
2012-08-16 03:54:50 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Keep in mind a few years earlier when the AD wanted to fire him Paterno told him he can't fire him.


Which people like to pretend means something other than holy f*cking sh*t the AD is a pussy. If my boss fired me and I said "you can't fire me!" I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't just keep working here for another several years. I mean, anyone can say that they're not getting fired.
 
2012-08-16 03:58:19 PM  

IAmRight: WhyteRaven74: Keep in mind a few years earlier when the AD wanted to fire him Paterno told him he can't fire him.

Which people like to pretend means something other than holy f*cking sh*t the AD is a pussy. If my boss fired me and I said "you can't fire me!" I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't just keep working here for another several years. I mean, anyone can say that they're not getting fired.


The AD actually played for Joe Paterno decades before, and if anything, that goes to show just how much control Joe Paterno had at the school. Which is it - that he was this genius who single-handedly guided this football program even at his advanced age, or a dottering, powerless old man who had no idea what was going on in his own program?
 
2012-08-16 03:58:20 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Especially seeing as how he's reminded of that EVERY SINGLE TIME he starts white knighting Paterno or Penn State


I don't know if he did this, but I remember in the Fark threads when this whole scandal was still just breaking, some people would interject any discussion about Paterno's knowledge of events (or anyone else, really) with WHY ARENT YOU TALKING MOAR BOUT SANDUSKEE HE WAPED THE KIDS.

Yes, people, Sandusky did commit the acts. And, personally, I find no real "gray" area or "nuance" to appreciate and discuss with actual child rape. If anyone does find something worth "exploring" there, seek help. Please.
 
2012-08-16 04:24:10 PM  

IAmNAMBLA and GAT-Dat-Kid00-Ass holding another classy discussion in Pedo Ethics and Forgiveness ?
Hmmm
It must be Thursday.



WE ARE!
 
2012-08-16 04:24:52 PM  
weknowmemes.com
 
2012-08-16 04:27:42 PM  

Killer Cars: Yes, people, Sandusky did commit the acts. And, personally, I find no real "gray" area or "nuance" to appreciate and discuss with actual child rape. If anyone does find something worth "exploring" there, seek help. Please.


You obviously missed IAMRIGHT's whole dissertation on how what Sandusky did was perfectly normal and natural and not noteworthy in the least.
 
2012-08-16 04:37:56 PM  

mikaloyd: Killer Cars: Yes, people, Sandusky did commit the acts. And, personally, I find no real "gray" area or "nuance" to appreciate and discuss with actual child rape. If anyone does find something worth "exploring" there, seek help. Please.

You obviously missed IAMRIGHT's whole dissertation on how what Sandusky did was perfectly normal and natural and not noteworthy in the least.


Ol' Jer even gave hummers those lucky kids. I don't know why there's all this outrage.
 
2012-08-16 04:48:49 PM  
Dont get me wrong, I think the whole raping of anyone is wrong and should be punished to the full extent of the law. If not more

The fact that an organzation can come back and say we take away all your wins from this year to this year is stupid. I mean all you have to do is watch a rerun of the games to know who actually won.

Hurting the future chances of the football team makes more sense to change the culture.

anyways back to your moaning either way
 
2012-08-16 04:51:18 PM  

Krymson Tyde: mikaloyd: Killer Cars: Yes, people, Sandusky did commit the acts. And, personally, I find no real "gray" area or "nuance" to appreciate and discuss with actual child rape. If anyone does find something worth "exploring" there, seek help. Please.

You obviously missed IAMRIGHT's whole dissertation on how what Sandusky did was perfectly normal and natural and not noteworthy in the least.

Ol' Jer even gave hummers those lucky kids. I don't know why there's all this outrage.


Yep. IAmNAMBLA went right down that boulevaerde too. Hell he'd have paid good money or traded Philly Cheesesteak for that kind of action with an old dude when he was 7. Would still do with a 7 year old to hear him tell it. My advice? Dont hire him to babysit if you know what I mean.
 
2012-08-16 04:52:49 PM  
There are so many inconclusive reports floating around about what did and did not happen the only thing that we can all agree on is that all Penn State alumni past and present are guilty of enabling and supporting the molestation of children.

And the 1983 sugar bowl result should be overturned because their was a damn pedophile working the sideline.
 
2012-08-16 04:59:55 PM  

Nabb1: Which is it - that he was this genius who single-handedly guided this football program even at his advanced age, or a dottering, powerless old man who had no idea what was going on in his own program?


Why the false dichotomy? Because it's easier for you to say one or the other is false? Yeah, sorry, only the people that hate him would claim either.

mikaloyd: You obviously missed IAMRIGHT's whole dissertation on how what Sandusky did was perfectly normal and natural and not noteworthy in the least.


I must've missed that too - oh wait, you're completely making sh*t up.

mikaloyd: Yep. IAmNAMBLA went right down that boulevaerde too.


I'm sorry you're illiterate. People just kept going on about bleeding anuses, and while that's disgusting enough, as point of fact, according to the testimony, the vast majority of them were given blowjobs. That is disgusting enough that you don't have to lie about things and make them worse when referring to them. Sorry, I should just let the retardism go unabated.
 
2012-08-16 05:01:54 PM  
Until the day I die, I will never understand why people defend this guy. He turned the other cheek while an assistant coach raped little boys. Like it or not, children idolize sports figures and dream of being associated with their favorite team. A child's trust of sports stars was used to Sandusky's advantage and Paterno allowed this despicable act to continue. Am I supposed to feel differently for Paterno because he cried when he was fired? I will never feel an ounce of sympathy for that man.
 
2012-08-16 05:09:29 PM  

IAmRight: I'm sorry you're illiterate. People just kept going on about bleeding anuses, and while that's disgusting enough, as point of fact, according to the testimony, the vast majority of them were given blowjobs. That is disgusting enough that you don't have to lie about things and make them worse when referring to them. Sorry, I should just let the retardism go unabated.


Well, I'm officially creeped out now. Holy crap.
 
2012-08-16 05:21:17 PM  

IAmRight: People just kept going on about bleeding anuses, and while that's disgusting enough, as point of fact, according to the testimony, the vast majority of them were given blowjobs. That is disgusting enough that you don't have to lie about things and make them worse when referring to them. Sorry, I should just let the retardism go unabated.


You should be ashamed of yourself.
 
2012-08-16 05:28:23 PM  

GAT_00: adamgreeney: GAT_00: mahuika: GAT_00: I was mocking other people in here, I assume IAmRight was too. Because that's what all the self-righteous people in here sound like

I don't get it. Are they claiming to read minds because they are assuming that Joe Paterno was not lying when he explained why he was crying, or are they claiming to read minds because they think Joe Paterno should have reported his coworker to the authorities after finding out about the whole kid rape thing?

I don't know what they are saying, you'll have to ask them. I'm just mocking what they sound like.

And I'm pretty sure someone said basically the same thing to me at least one, but they were serious.

I missed 90% of your comments in these threads, so I am honestly asking why you are so vehement in defending the administration and football staff of Penn State. You certainly don't give that kind of deference to the Catholic Church

Actually, I've attacked the administration, in particular the Board that commissioned the Freeh report that absolved them of all blame and dropped it all on JoePa since he was good and dead. Nobody who pretends to care in these threads is calling for the Board to resign, since they are the ones Paterno reported Sandusky to and who buried everything. But this whole this is a media campaign and the mob here is happily braying along, happy to hurt innocent people and ignore the guilty in their supposed zeal.


I guess that you didn't read the Freeh Report. The board was kept in the dark by Spanier, Curley, and Schultz as well as their moron of a lawyer, whom, together with Paterno (JVP as you may recall in the emails) decided amongst themselves that the secret of Sandusky abusing young boys should be handled and kept within the athletic department.

// Didn't work out so well in the end, did it Nittany Liar fan?
// Go back to Crappy Valley
 
2012-08-16 05:39:19 PM  
>>>> RHYTHMIC SLAPPING SOUNDS
/ brought tears 2 JoePa's eyes
 
2012-08-16 05:41:16 PM  

edgesrealm: The board was kept in the dark


Funny. Board kept in the dark = OK. But when JoePa was kept in the dark for years, he's the villain.
 
2012-08-16 05:44:27 PM  

GAT_00: edgesrealm: The board was kept in the dark

Funny. Board kept in the dark = OK. But when JoePa was kept in the dark for years, he's the villain.


Okay, you clearly have not read the Freeh report, and at this point, I have to assume you are just trolling these threads.
 
2012-08-16 05:47:50 PM  

scottydoesntknow: GAT_00: Hey, that horse still has a little bit of life left in it! Let's beat it some more and think it somehow makes us better people!

I thought you only defended the poor students who lost one reason (out of thousands) to get drunk on a Saturday.


FYI to folks, don't push ol' GAT too hard. He'll get you banned for "namecalling." Truth is not a defense when someone's a friend of the mods, apparently.
 
2012-08-16 05:48:00 PM  

GAT_00: edgesrealm: The board was kept in the dark

Funny. Board kept in the dark = OK. But when JoePa was kept in the dark for years, he's the villain.


It would be, had he been kept in the dark. He wasn't, because he knew back in 1998 that there was an incident, he advised Curley in 2001/2002 not to go through with the steps that Curley, Schultz, and Spanier all agreed upon to alert authorities to what Sandusky was doing, and then when McQueary reported what he saw directly to Paterno, he ignored it and did nothing. Then to top it all off, he had not adea what his Clery Act responsibilities were, and that was to report it the second that he knew about it.

// Four of a kind, and they were responsible for burning down your full house...
 
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