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(Investors Business Daily)   Treasury Department revises General Motors buyout figures   (news.investors.com) divider line 49
    More: Sad, Treasury Department, obama, Neil Barofsky, inspector generals, redistribution of wealth  
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2121 clicks; posted to Business » on 16 Aug 2012 at 10:13 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-16 10:17:32 AM
The loss is entirely based on the stock price at a given moment - so just wait for the market to move the direction your political bent requires then fire off an article claiming victory!
 
2012-08-16 10:20:32 AM
Wasn't this greenlit yesterday?
 
2012-08-16 10:27:41 AM
Since this is being reported in Investor's Business Daily, I'm willing to bet that they completely distort whatever actually happened to the point where it's nearly unrecognizable.

Oh would you look at that:
the forced closure of auto dealers, which hurt parts suppliers, was unnecessary and political.

Those parts suppliers would have been just fine if Fartbongo had stayed out of it and let GM cease to exist.

How's Stephen Hawking doing, BTW? Still alive and not kicking? I guess the NHS hasn't killed him yet. Those dastardly bureaucrats are probably just keeping him alive to make IBD look stupid.
 
2012-08-16 10:28:05 AM
Can I request that all links from Investor's Business Daily be moved to the Politics tab? It's not really a business publication.

If you disagree, I have some excellent investments you may be interested in. Guaranteed returns of 25% a year through simple, commodity based trading that Obama doesn't want you to know about!
 
2012-08-16 10:35:26 AM
I had a customer who lived OBD. He was day-trading himself into a fine frenzy. He FINALLY figured out that he could have just invested in an index fund of some sort and he'd be better off without any effort at all.
 
2012-08-16 10:35:40 AM
Is this bad news...for Obama?

Seriously--is this likely to cost him votes in the fall election, or are voters' minds made up (as to what the bailout says about his fitness for re-election).

/Should I move this query to the Politics tab?
 
2012-08-16 10:36:07 AM

ghare: I had a customer who lived OBD IBD. He was day-trading himself into a fine frenzy. He FINALLY figured out that he could have just invested in an index fund of some sort and he'd be better off without any effort at all.


ftfm
 
2012-08-16 10:37:40 AM
Fizpez:
The loss is entirely based on the stock price at a given moment - so just wait for the market to move the direction your political bent requires then fire off an article claiming victory!

So you were also first in line to complain about all of the people who were happy that "it was going to pay off" a couple of years ago, when the stock was still high? And you modified your stance on that imaginary value when GM started tanking in the car market, even though they had all of that government support?

You weren't? Never said a single word about the highly-inflated stock price back then? Go figure.
 
2012-08-16 10:45:19 AM
Funny how the name Bush isn't mentioned.
 
2012-08-16 10:48:34 AM
Automobile manufacturing employment

data.bls.gov

Automobile dealer employment

data.bls.gov 

I guess IBD would have liked to see both those graphs continue straight down to oblivion in 2009.
 
2012-08-16 11:02:13 AM
I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure I clicked the business tab. Maybe I just need another coffee.
 
2012-08-16 11:05:17 AM

Gaumond: I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure I clicked the business tab. Maybe I just need another coffee.


Or bourbon.

/or both
 
2012-08-16 11:15:39 AM

Fizpez: The loss is entirely based on the stock price at a given moment - so just wait for the market to move the direction your political bent requires then fire off an article claiming victory!


But you're okay when your side fires of an article when the stock price is favorable! AMIRITE?
 
2012-08-16 11:21:36 AM
I wish we could have figured out a way to retain the jobs and let GM go out of business at the same time.... GM is a poor excuse for a company, its so entrenched in its ways that its beyond saving... right now, the Government is purchasing a crap load of cars (I think they purchased 500k of them last year) to bolster GM's sales.. and that can only last so long.

GM will be back at the trough looking for another bail out in 3-4 years, max... it will become the new Amtrak.
 
2012-08-16 11:49:07 AM
Still worth it.
 
2012-08-16 11:58:09 AM

dwrash: I wish we could have figured out a way to retain the jobs and let GM go out of business at the same time.... GM is a poor excuse for a company, its so entrenched in its ways that its beyond saving... right now, the Government is purchasing a crap load of cars (I think they purchased 500k of them last year) to bolster GM's sales.. and that can only last so long.

GM will be back at the trough looking for another bail out in 3-4 years, max... it will become the new Amtrak.


This is a odd point. Doesn't the government purchase thousands of GM and Ford vehicles every year in the form of police, agency, park service, military, etc. every year?
 
2012-08-16 11:59:07 AM

xtragrind: Fizpez: The loss is entirely based on the stock price at a given moment - so just wait for the market to move the direction your political bent requires then fire off an article claiming victory!

But you're okay when your side fires of an article when the stock price is favorable! AMIRITE?


That's the joke.
 
2012-08-16 11:59:39 AM

Rapmaster2000: dwrash: I wish we could have figured out a way to retain the jobs and let GM go out of business at the same time.... GM is a poor excuse for a company, its so entrenched in its ways that its beyond saving... right now, the Government is purchasing a crap load of cars (I think they purchased 500k of them last year) to bolster GM's sales.. and that can only last so long.

GM will be back at the trough looking for another bail out in 3-4 years, max... it will become the new Amtrak.

This is a odd point. Doesn't the government purchase thousands of GM and Ford vehicles every year in the form of police, agency, park service, military, etc. every year?


Yes.

Every freaking year they do.
 
2012-08-16 12:01:07 PM
This is why the government should not be picking winners and losers. Let GM go under, if their business is doing poorly. How would saving their butts by giving them a bunch of money change how they run their business? If they couldn't make good business decisions to stay afloat on their own, then they deserve to go bankrupt.

Ford is doing just fine without government help.
 
2012-08-16 12:01:22 PM

Rapmaster2000: dwrash: I wish we could have figured out a way to retain the jobs and let GM go out of business at the same time.... GM is a poor excuse for a company, its so entrenched in its ways that its beyond saving... right now, the Government is purchasing a crap load of cars (I think they purchased 500k of them last year) to bolster GM's sales.. and that can only last so long.

GM will be back at the trough looking for another bail out in 3-4 years, max... it will become the new Amtrak.

This is a odd point. Doesn't the government purchase thousands of GM and Ford vehicles every year in the form of police, agency, park service, military, etc. every year?


Yeah, having police respond in a furl efgicient Kia is unthinkable! They deserve Tahoes. And pensions at age 50.
 
2012-08-16 12:09:22 PM

xtragrind: Fizpez: The loss is entirely based on the stock price at a given moment - so just wait for the market to move the direction your political bent requires then fire off an article claiming victory!

But you're okay when your side fires of an article when the stock price is favorable! AMIRITE?


I'm a registered Republican who has voted for every single (R) president since 1988 including Bush Jr. (twice) - I've got the recycling bin full of mailings requesting my money from Romney to prove it. "My side" has become the thought that "we" are flushing the country down the toilet because every single farking number that gets published, including the expected high temperature for the day, has to have a political winner and loser.

Politician A says its a "nice day" so Politician B insists its only because he's trying to put snow plow drivers and umbrella salesmen out of business. It just so happens that "My side" has a few too many "no compromise even if it means I burn the house down around me" for my liking and its making me a bit sick.
 
2012-08-16 12:12:19 PM

mcreadyblue: Rapmaster2000: dwrash: I wish we could have figured out a way to retain the jobs and let GM go out of business at the same time.... GM is a poor excuse for a company, its so entrenched in its ways that its beyond saving... right now, the Government is purchasing a crap load of cars (I think they purchased 500k of them last year) to bolster GM's sales.. and that can only last so long.

GM will be back at the trough looking for another bail out in 3-4 years, max... it will become the new Amtrak.

This is a odd point. Doesn't the government purchase thousands of GM and Ford vehicles every year in the form of police, agency, park service, military, etc. every year?

Yeah, having police respond in a furl efgicient Kia is unthinkable! They deserve Tahoes. And pensions at age 50.


Police agencies choose their own vehicles. They generally have two requirements, body-on-frame for durability and RWD. For years that has only been the Crown Vic. As Ford winds down production, they are having to choose a new vehicle. RWD Chargers and AWD Taureses are the most popular choices. Link

While Kias are quite reliable for getting you to work every day on smooth pavement, they're not as adept at pushing cars off of the highway, performing pit manuvers, handling rough pavement in the not-so-nice parts of town you don't go to, carrying hundreds of pounds of gear in the trunk, and dealing with the day to day pounding that a cop car puts up with. There's a reason cops have been using pretty much one model of Ford for the last 15 years, and it's probably not related to Obama.

So yes, having police respond in a fuel efficient Kia is unthinkable.
 
2012-08-16 12:13:27 PM
Meh. The article is broadly correct in that we are going to lose money on the bailout of GM (unlike the bailouts of big banks), and that we could have done better if we had been tougher with the unions. I.e, we were overly generous to union employees for political purposes.

But the article descends into derp pretty quickly, in particular by quoting noted ax-grinding derper Barofsky. As usual, anything from IBD has to be taken with a large grain of salt due to their bias.
 
2012-08-16 12:19:21 PM

Dinki: Automobile manufacturing employment

[data.bls.gov image 600x300]

Automobile dealer employment

[data.bls.gov image 600x300] 

I guess IBD would have liked to see both those graphs continue straight down to oblivion in 2009.


Did you know that when a company goes bankrupt, all of its assets aren't vaporized?
 
2012-08-16 12:26:41 PM
Amos: Does ya mean ta tell me dat GM stock is wutless?

Kingfish: Well, let me put it this way: I am still the broker, but you is the brokee.
 
2012-08-16 12:30:49 PM
As soon as I hit Heritage Foundation I stopped reading.
 
2012-08-16 12:38:16 PM
First up, the bailout of GM was cheap compared to some of the crap government gets up to. And if I'm not mistaken this one bailout prevented a global increase in unemployment from shuttered factories and thus helps a little towards keeping the globe out of an economic depression.

It's much easier to see the benefit of keeping factories around than keeping massive banks around.
 
2012-08-16 12:47:54 PM

wildcardjack: First up, the bailout of GM was cheap compared to some of the crap government gets up to. And if I'm not mistaken this one bailout prevented a global increase in unemployment from shuttered factories and thus helps a little towards keeping the globe out of an economic depression.


It's like treating cancer with a half-round of chemo. Yea, looks nice now, but the cancer is still there. Like forests with forest fires, capitalistic economies rely on the economic cycle to clear out the sick and dying.
 
2012-08-16 12:49:04 PM

k1j2b3: This is why the government should not be picking winners and losers. Let GM go under, if their business is doing poorly. How would saving their butts by giving them a bunch of money change how they run their business? If they couldn't make good business decisions to stay afloat on their own, then they deserve to go bankrupt.

Ford is doing just fine without government help.


Ford needed help before GM needed help. So they got a loan. By the time GM needed help, banks weren't giving out loans anymore.

So basically you want to punish GM for being more successful, and only needing a loan after the banking system collapsed.
 
2012-08-16 12:50:22 PM

meat0918: Still worth it.


Agreed. Fact is thought, the stock will not go at or near $53 for a long time. Investors know that when the stock price is close enough for the government to say, "ok, that is an acceptable loss", 500 million shares of stock are going to slowing come into the market and drive the price right back down.
 
2012-08-16 12:52:31 PM
Did the graph cite itself as a source?
 
2012-08-16 12:53:21 PM

Fizpez: The loss is entirely based on the stock price at a given moment - so just wait for the market to move the direction your political bent requires then fire off an article claiming victory!


Well since it needs to go up $30+/share for them to break even it doesn't matter, they pissed our money away again.

I find this suprising because the left leaning on Fark have stated the Americans are making millions off the GM investment!
 
2012-08-16 12:54:33 PM

impaler: Ford needed help before GM needed help. So they got a loan. By the time GM needed help, banks weren't giving out loans anymore.


Ford had a valuable share that they helped cultivate in Mazda to sell off for cash. GM had neglected its best potentially salable assets in Saab and Saturn and had no way to raise money. Ford had a brain and developed assets of value, GM did not.
 
2012-08-16 12:55:12 PM

impaler: k1j2b3: This is why the government should not be picking winners and losers. Let GM go under, if their business is doing poorly. How would saving their butts by giving them a bunch of money change how they run their business? If they couldn't make good business decisions to stay afloat on their own, then they deserve to go bankrupt.

Ford is doing just fine without government help.

Ford needed help before GM needed help. So they got a loan. By the time GM needed help, banks weren't giving out loans anymore.

So basically you want to punish GM for being more successful, and only needing a loan after the banking system collapsed.


No Ford was in a stronger position to get the loan with huge sales overseas, GM has been in this precarious situation for a long time.
 
2012-08-16 12:56:24 PM

MAYORBOB: Amos: Does ya mean ta tell me dat GM stock is wutless?

Kingfish: Well, let me put it this way: I am still the broker, but you is the brokee.


An Amos N Andy joke on Fark? Who would've thunk it
 
2012-08-16 01:02:52 PM

bhcompy:

Ford had a valuable share that they helped cultivate in Mazda to sell off for cash. GM had neglected its best potentially salable assets in Saab and Saturn and had no way to raise money. Ford had a brain and developed assets of value, GM did not.


steamingpile: i

No Ford was in a stronger position to get the loan with huge sales overseas, GM has been in this precarious situation for a long time.


Hmm. Which one of you is right?
 
2012-08-16 01:14:29 PM

meat0918: Rapmaster2000: dwrash: I wish we could have figured out a way to retain the jobs and let GM go out of business at the same time.... GM is a poor excuse for a company, its so entrenched in its ways that its beyond saving... right now, the Government is purchasing a crap load of cars (I think they purchased 500k of them last year) to bolster GM's sales.. and that can only last so long.

GM will be back at the trough looking for another bail out in 3-4 years, max... it will become the new Amtrak.

This is a odd point. Doesn't the government purchase thousands of GM and Ford vehicles every year in the form of police, agency, park service, military, etc. every year?

Yes.

Every freaking year they do.


BUT, the federal governments purchase of GM vehicles is up 32% so far in the 2012 calender year.
 
2012-08-16 01:19:20 PM

dwrash: meat0918: Rapmaster2000: dwrash: I wish we could have figured out a way to retain the jobs and let GM go out of business at the same time.... GM is a poor excuse for a company, its so entrenched in its ways that its beyond saving... right now, the Government is purchasing a crap load of cars (I think they purchased 500k of them last year) to bolster GM's sales.. and that can only last so long.

GM will be back at the trough looking for another bail out in 3-4 years, max... it will become the new Amtrak.

This is a odd point. Doesn't the government purchase thousands of GM and Ford vehicles every year in the form of police, agency, park service, military, etc. every year?

Yes.

Every freaking year they do.

BUT, the federal governments purchase of GM vehicles is up 32% so far in the 2012 calender year.


Yes, but everyone knows it's down 85% since 2007 because the Kenyan Usurper wanted to destroy America and so he reduced purchases way down. He's only bringing them back up now so that he can get elected and then reduce them by 100% next year and put Americans out of work as part of a long term plan to ENSLAVE America.

You can read all about it on my blog.
 
2012-08-16 01:40:46 PM

YixilTesiphon: Did you know that when a company goes bankrupt, all of its assets aren't vaporized?


No true. If GM and Chrysler go bankrupt, there will never be another car sold in the US again. The demand for vehilces will forever be gone.
 
2012-08-16 02:26:19 PM
There are enough good things happening with GM's products that in the long run, the bailout will be proven to be a good thing.

Now people are just pissed that they'll have to pay for said bailout. Too bad. Making up crap about the bailout and whining isn't going to get you out of paying 38% instead of 35%.
 
2012-08-16 03:07:51 PM

MugzyBrown: YixilTesiphon: Did you know that when a company goes bankrupt, all of its assets aren't vaporized?

No true. If GM and Chrysler go bankrupt, there will never be another car sold in the US again. The demand for vehilces will forever be gone.


Lol...that Fark's argument of the day, it seems.
 
2012-08-16 03:19:58 PM

Quiefenburger: Lol...that Fark's argument of the day, it seems.


LOL I know! Granted, no one has made that stupid argument, or even suggested it, but it seems like they have. Also, Lol
 
2012-08-16 03:38:35 PM
bailing out general motors was a horrible idea; it reinforces failing managerial policies as being beneficial.
 
2012-08-16 03:46:11 PM

Rapmaster2000: dwrash: meat0918: Rapmaster2000: dwrash: I wish we could have figured out a way to retain the jobs and let GM go out of business at the same time.... GM is a poor excuse for a company, its so entrenched in its ways that its beyond saving... right now, the Government is purchasing a crap load of cars (I think they purchased 500k of them last year) to bolster GM's sales.. and that can only last so long.

GM will be back at the trough looking for another bail out in 3-4 years, max... it will become the new Amtrak.

This is a odd point. Doesn't the government purchase thousands of GM and Ford vehicles every year in the form of police, agency, park service, military, etc. every year?

Yes.

Every freaking year they do.

BUT, the federal governments purchase of GM vehicles is up 32% so far in the 2012 calender year.

Yes, but everyone knows it's down 85% since 2007 because the Kenyan Usurper wanted to destroy America and so he reduced purchases way down. He's only bringing them back up now so that he can get elected and then reduce them by 100% next year and put Americans out of work as part of a long term plan to ENSLAVE America.

You can read all about it on my blog.


You didn't include an address to your blog.
 
2012-08-16 04:59:40 PM

wildcardjack: First up, the bailout of GM was cheap compared to some of the crap government gets up to. And if I'm not mistaken this one bailout prevented a global increase in unemployment from shuttered factories and thus helps a little towards keeping the globe out of an economic depression.

It's much easier to see the benefit of keeping factories around than keeping massive banks around.


It's not easier for anyone with a clue about economics or finance. Sure, we get secondary and tertiary benefits from keeping GM and Chrysler alive, to partially or fully offset the taxpayer loss.

Had the banks gone under due to market panic in the fall of 08 the economic damage would have been far greater than had the auto companies gone under. Couple that with the fact that were going to make a profit on the part of TARP that went to financial institutions (excluding Fannie and Freddie, where taxpayers are taking a bath), financial tarp was an extraordinarily good investment. No matter your political affiliation, we have to give credit to Bush and Obama for holding their noses and approving tarp.
 
2012-08-16 11:21:51 PM

bdub77: As soon as I hit Heritage Foundation I stopped reading.


so you are too dumb to refute a point so you make it a point to advertize that you don't understand simple mathematics when presented by someone of a different political lean. Got it.
 
2012-08-16 11:22:32 PM

wildcardjack: First up, the bailout of GM was cheap compared to some of the crap government gets up to. And if I'm not mistaken this one bailout prevented a global increase in unemployment from shuttered factories and thus helps a little towards keeping the globe out of an economic depression.

It's much easier to see the benefit of keeping factories around than keeping massive banks around.


you are completely mistaken, yes. Bankruptcy does not shutter business.
 
2012-08-17 12:59:21 AM

MyRandomName: bdub77: As soon as I hit Heritage Foundation I stopped reading.

so you are too dumb to refute a point so you make it a point to advertize that you don't understand simple mathematics when presented by someone of a different political lean. Got it.


And you are too dumb to know that an organization with heavy political bias that willfully misrepresents information for political gain should not be trusted. Got it.
 
2012-08-17 03:51:54 PM

impaler: Quiefenburger: Lol...that Fark's argument of the day, it seems.

LOL I know! Granted, no one has made that stupid argument, or even suggested it, but it seems like they have. Also, Lol


Link
 
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