arethereanybeernamesleft: For the life of me, aside from Obamacare, I don't know why Republicans don't like Obama. He's George Bush, with results and a larger kill list.
steelkidney: "Also, the Bush administration carried out fewer targeted killings: Of the 336 attacks as of July 2012 in Pakistan, 284 have occurred under Obama. Bush officials were better able, therefore, to suppress discussion. Also, human rights advocates had their hands full with the more visible problems of the Bush era: torture, Guantanamo Bay and military commissions. A number of them then joined the Obama administration; rather than condemn targeted killing as the violation of international law that it is, some former critics are defending it, presumably as part of their job."Oh, good. I was afraid we'd have to deal with a double standard.
Callous: The problem is when you don't know that a terrorist is living near you. Kinda like when the cops kick in your door at O'Dark:30 because a guy who lives in the same building you do sells drugs and they got a warrant to search the entire building because they don't know which apartment is his.
Baron Harkonnen: Tetzlaff: And you know a weapon is really ethically questionable if even the Germans won't touch itHey, that's pretty funny. Also, it would be funny if you would take a gun, stick it into your mouth, and shoot yourself. Especially if you flopped around on the floor in agony bleeding to death./Hey, I'm as edgy as Tetzlaff.
Parmenius: sprawl15: Nem Wan: The resolution is limited to the past tense, involving people who were involved in something in the past.With time, that's getting pretty thin.Since it extends to organizations and those that assisted those organizations, it rolls along as splinter groups form.odinsposse: That's US law. Killing people overseas would fall under international law. Which is what the article addresses.Under the premise that killings outside Afghanistan are outside the 'war zone'. Our AUMF does not designate a section of terrain as a 'war zone', nor does it provide for a specific target. Our 'war zone' is the world. If they found al Qaeda holing up in a farmhouse outside Ottowa, we could bomb the shiat out of it no problem. We may have a political nightmare on our hands, but not a legal one as far as our government's concerned.That's kind of the problem with Congress granting ridiculously broad powers.It's interesting that countries with a capable government and security apparatus don't have drone strikes happening inside them. Yemen, Somalia, Pakistan have huge difficulty asserting sovereignty in any sense, and the result is "ungoverned space" that the baddies use to their advantage. I have no problem with whacking terrorists in ungoverned space, and it's weird to pretend the same rules apply. I think we can agree that Canada is not ungoverned space! I can't imagine the political nightmare, as you said...
BullBearMS: So when the US starts invading and occupying Muslim nations and killing the people inside them, an American citizen no longer has the Constitutional right to criticize his own government for it's actions?
BullBearMS: sprawl15: Yemen has been working with us.If by working with us you mean helping us cover it up when we murder dozens of innocent women and children in a single drone strike."If you go to the village of Al-Majalah in Yemen, where I was, and you see the unexploded clusterbombs and you have the list and photographic evidence, as I do--the women and children that represented the vast majority of the deaths in this first strike that Obama authorized on Yemen--those people were murdered by President Obama, on his orders, because there was believed to be someone from Al Qaeda in that area.There's only one person that's been identified that had any connection to Al Qaeda there. And 21 women and 14 children were killed in that strike and the U.S. tried to cover it up, and say it was a Yemeni strike, and we know from the Wikileaks cables that David Petraeus conspired with the president of Yemen to lie to the world about who did that bombing.It's murder--it's mass murder--when you say, 'We are going to bomb this area' because we believe a terrorist is there, and you know that women and children are in the area. The United States has an obligation to not bomb that area if they believe that women and children are there. I'm sorry, that's murder."
macadamnut: jigger: macadamnut: [i512.photobucket.com image 850x583]I guess you're special. Usually that gets people banned for a day. Unless it's just me.Truly? Wasn't it in Life magazine?
BullBearMS: See this little guy? He's one of the innocent people we have murdered. Here he is meeting with our officials to protest the number of innocents who have recently been murdered.[dl.dropbox.com image 634x433]The attentive, unassuming young man sitting near me in the pictures on the right is Tariq Aziz.He was 16 when we met last October, just a year older than my own teenage son, although with his neatly trimmed beard and traditional shalwar kameez he looked more like the grown men alongside him.Tariq had travelled many hours to the relative safety of Islamabad from his home in Waziristan, a rugged Pakistani tribal area on the border with Afghanistan.He was there to join a protest about the plague of American 'drones' - the remote-controlled aircraft that have left a bloody trail of death and fury among the innocent villagers who struggle to earn a living in the unforgiving mountainous region.Tariq was one of the youngest in the group of men, some blind, others missing limbs, who had descended on the capital from Waziristan, armed with gruesome photographs of women and children blown to pieces among debris and Hellfire missile parts stamped with serial numbers and the US flag.I was there to distribute digital cameras so that the people from Waziristan could record the damage and death caused by the drones, as part of a campaign to prove that innocent civilians are dying.Tariq, a keen amateur photographer, was given one of the cameras before he left to return home.Three days later he was dead. Like his cousin, who had died in April 2010 and whose identity card he clutched when we met, he was blown to pieces by a drone strike. The appalling irony of how his young life ended will stay with me for ever.According to Tariq's family, at about noon on the day he died he had been driving with his younger cousin Waheed to pick up an aunt after her wedding.How in the hell can a 16 year old boy be murdered for the crime of driving while a brown person?Ind ...
Hermione_Granger: I wonder how people would feel if they did drone strikes in black neighborhoods because a drug dealer lived there? I bet they would say it was justified - Pres. Obama must know best - especially because it's black people.
Callous: Both questions can be answered by looking at the letter in parentheses after his name. For most it has nothing to due with policies and behavior. It's all about which team he's on.
trappedspirit: macadamnut: jigger: macadamnut: [i512.photobucket.com image 850x583]I guess you're special. Usually that gets people banned for a day. Unless it's just me.Truly? Wasn't it in Life magazine?see the section on "Graphic image content"
lennavan: Banned on the Run: Why is this an issue? Honestly.What difference does it make whether we bust in and shoot him (Osama), or a drone fires a missile (every al Queda #2 ever)?U.S. law doesn't distinguish between murder with a sniper rifle or murder with a knife.I don't get it. Dead is dead.We attempted to capture Osama bin Laden alive and ended up shooting him in self defense. I don't think drone missiles have capture capability. The law does differentiate between these two. It's why the police usually try to get you to surrender or take you alive rather than just snipe you from far away.
Banned on the Run: Osama was dead the second that helicopter touched down.
lennavan: I don't think drone missiles have capture capability.
ChipNASA: "President" Ballrog, HUSSEIN, Sombrero, Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers, al-Chicago, Chocolate Jesus, B-Rock the Islamic Shock, Barky McTeleprompter, Wizard of Uhhs, BoBo the Clown, Oblahbla, Jug Ears, Saunas breach akimbo, Waffles The Clown, Borborygmos Hammerhiem, The Rainbow King, Bukkake O'Bunga, OBIGOT, El Jefe Chocholate, "Jace the Mindsculpter", Hopey McChangeypants, Oyobi, Bonzo the Time Traveler, La Bamba yo' Mamma, Samurai Kebab Nachos, Fartbongo, II"Need a little help with the second one......Presidential Canduhdate Mitt "The Shiat" Romney, Romneyhood, Ritz Cracka, Willard the Republitard, El Jefe Acartonado, Milli Vanilli Romni, Papaya Vagina, Romman & Roybin,
Rent Party: Nem Wan: sprawl15: planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or personsThe resolution is limited to the past tense, involving people who were involved in something in the past.An organization that was involved in those events is still extant, and still plotting.The AUMF is still relevant.
Nem Wan: Rent Party: Nem Wan: sprawl15: planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or personsThe resolution is limited to the past tense, involving people who were involved in something in the past.An organization that was involved in those events is still extant, and still plotting.The AUMF is still relevant.How does the definition of organization apply to these groups? Do al-Qaeda spinoffs have to get material support from someone in the "original" al-Qaeda or do they just have to say things similar to what people in al-Qaeda say and call them selves al-Qaeda? Just because wannabes want the credibility of al-Qaeda doesn't mean they were connected to 9/11 in any material way.
BullBearMS: arethereanybeernamesleft: vygramul: Not anymore. One of Obama's first executive orders.His second was to accelerate drone attacks. No need for torture. They're dead, Jim.
Frederf: This is an easy one to analyze, simply replace the countries involved and see if it's alright still."Today, Spainish military forces attacked a US citizen with an armed drone in Kansas identified as actively engaged in terrorism in mainland Spain."Yeah, seems legit.
Banned on the Run: Frederf: This is an easy one to analyze, simply replace the countries involved and see if it's alright still."Today, Spainish military forces attacked a US citizen with an armed drone in Kansas identified as actively engaged in terrorism in mainland Spain."Yeah, seems legit.If Spain requests his extradition from the US and we refuse, and if the US promised to help track him down only to assist him in evading Spain, if Spain gave the US billions to assist in the search, and if this person was lauching attacks from the US on Spanish troops, then YES, Spain would be completely justified in launching a drone attack on this US citizen.Thanks! Fun game.
Nem Wan: How does the definition of organization apply to these groups?
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