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(BBC)   UK to Ecuadoran embassy: "Either hand over Julian Assange or we'll go in there and get him ourselves." Ecuador: "Uhm, we are not a British colony." UK: "WHARRGARBL"   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 110
    More: Interesting, Julian Assange, Ecuadoran, Knightsbridge, foreign office, submarine communications cable, Ecuador, WikiLeaks  
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4966 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Aug 2012 at 8:56 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-08-15 09:17:20 PM
7 votes:
Just listening to everyone spout off ideas about diplomatic immunity, special forces commando raids, international laws and repercussions has finally convinced me that this is all definitely only about sexual misconduct in Sweden.

Right.
2012-08-15 10:17:07 PM
4 votes:

sillydragon: It's good to know that the UK is still our biatch.


Bingo. We want him, because he must be punished for making us look bad. We're using every tool at our disposal to get our grubby mitts on him. Yet, he's managed to actually use, well, the rule of law to ensure that we can't just have him killed out of hand - so we're now pressuring the UK to do our dirty work.

I hope this goes ugly.
2012-08-15 09:03:04 PM
4 votes:
Wow, he really, really scares the power brokers that much, huh.
2012-08-16 01:23:28 AM
3 votes:

STRYPERSWINE: Why hasn't this prick been killed yet??



Because you don't just go around killing journalists, especially if you're a country claiming to be BEST FREEDOM EVER
2012-08-15 10:44:11 PM
3 votes:

Bungles: He's theoretically more safe. It's much harder to go Sweden->US than UK->US, and neither country will extradite if there's the possibility of the death penalty.

He doesn't want to go to Sweden because he has wandering hands.


So when he hung around in Sweden for 2 months waiting for the prosecution to get its collective act together, was cleared to leave, only to be told after he had arrived in the UK that he was wanted back in Sweden for questioning and that they were initiating extradition proceedings, it doesn't ring any alarm bells?

This is a country (Sweden) that has admitted that in the past it has illegally handed over a suspect to US authorities.

This whole thing stinks. Badly. I certainly don't blame him for seeking refuge in the Ecuadorian Embassy.
2012-08-15 10:04:06 PM
3 votes:
It's about time we took sex offenses seriously. I for one am glad to see the UK and Sweden taking such a firm stance against sex offenders, particularly difficult to prosecute acquaintance rape. I look forward to future blockades of embassies, similar levels of police massive involvement and drawn out extradition across national borders in all rape cases reported in both countries from now on.
2012-08-15 09:11:05 PM
3 votes:

Bungles: Yeah, good luck getting him out of the country, Ecuador.

How exactly are you going to get him out of the country without him stepping on UK soil?

The sole option is for him to drive out of the embassy in a diplomatic car, and drive onto a back loaded freight plane at a Ecuadorian private landing strip.

Ecuador has none of those things in the UK.

He'll be arrested during transit, because there's not way for him to reach Ecuador without leaving Ecuadorian sovereignty.


Ecuadorian military or diplomatic helicopter to a waiting ship off the coast.
2012-08-16 05:19:36 PM
2 votes:
I want the whole farking world to be watching how this plays out. I want everyone to see and remember exactly when and where the powers that be showed their hand. If Assange disappears, I want the world to catch fire. This is big. Bigger than whatever petty political bullshiat we have going on over here in the States.
2012-08-16 03:44:51 AM
2 votes:
Assange pissed off some very powerful people. Anyone who believes this has anything to do with "rape" is naive to the point of almost willful ignorance.
2012-08-16 03:18:21 AM
2 votes:

Magruda: SpaceButler: So to get to the truth, you have to ignore the context?

If you want truth take a philosophy class. Journalism is about facts.


Well, in this particular case what one must question is why the facts that,

- the women colluded and changed their stories after the fact to reflect a more hostile image of Assange than initially given to police,

- the women originally only sought a way to compel Assange to submit to STD testing but learned the only way to do that was to press rape charges,

- the original complaints and resulting investigation was closed for lack of prosecutorial merit,

- and the investigation was reopened days later with the warrant issued including charges not originally pressed against Assange;

have been ignored, and moreover suppressed, by not only the media but law enforcement and government officially, in favor of a narrative that Assange is somehow now a violent rapist.
2012-08-16 02:27:41 AM
2 votes:

The Dog Ate The Constitution: The U.S. should just disappear this rapist already. Not like the scumbag has anybody who would miss him.


But enough about your personal life
2012-08-16 01:58:43 AM
2 votes:

FlyingLizardOfDoom: I am in favor of a police state if it will reign in on reckless publication of private information.


So you're a fascist.
Yes, the state should have access to all our information and Trapwire is just fine.
However, information going the other way around is unacceptable.
Governments/multinational corporations should have nothing to hide/fear. Those barriers of information are so they can continue to wage wars against each other, not to reduce conflict.
3.bp.blogspot.com
2012-08-16 01:27:09 AM
2 votes:

DustBunny: And his whole running away is based on his supposedly being locked up (which is probably a lot more likely now than it was at the start, what with being a flight risk and all).


Did you miss the part where Sweden doesn't have bail and will hold him in prison, denying him the opportunity to seek asylum at a later time?
2012-08-15 10:56:11 PM
2 votes:
That was Valerie Plame. The guy they tried to prosecute was Dick Cheney's staffer, Scooter Libby.
He got convicted.

Then George W. Bush commuted his prison sentence.
2012-08-15 10:33:12 PM
2 votes:

brianbankerus: Bungles: Then why does the UK, the most Englishy of all English-speaking countries, have no intention or plans to hand him over to the US?

Because the US hasn't filed charges. Can't extradite without charges.


There is a sealed indictment for him. They are just waiting for the right time to present it.

The UK would face a backlash if they handed him over and Sweden less so. I've heard assange's lawyer give multiple interviews on why they fear Sweden.
2012-08-15 10:17:07 PM
2 votes:

thisispete: Under the Vienna Convention, embassies are inviolable to search and seizure without the consent of the head of mission, but contrary to popular belief they remain the soverign territory of the host nation.

You might ask how Ecuador could get Assange out of the country - they could designate him as a diplomatic courier and then he himself would be inviolable.


I want to see this SO MUCH.

/Assange shouldn't have published any data that put lives at risk, but the rest? Yeah. He had the moral high ground. He might be a jackass personally, but at least in America we should applaud the idea of openness in our government.
2012-08-15 10:08:57 PM
2 votes:
If the UK wants to expose its embassy personnel worldwide to the same sort of action, they're welcome to set a precedent.
2012-08-15 09:29:28 PM
2 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: Bungles: Especially given he should, you know, have gone to the Australian embassy. Then the situation would be different.

Yeah. He would be turned over to the US nearly instantly.


Truth. The USA exerts a gravitational field over nearly all english speaking/ NATO countries.

Seriously it is looking like Assange is going to have live the rest of his days out in unfriendly banana republics or the bad boys club(totalitarian antagonist states), like they would ever take him in.

The guy is plain farked. more as a future message to anyone who dares republish American data on the internet.
2012-08-15 09:17:52 PM
2 votes:
/The US and A! wants Assange because he's the foreign national who received Bradley Manning's classified documents.
2012-08-15 09:09:54 PM
2 votes:

cman: They wont risk the international punishments


What international punishments?
The US from 2000-2008 (and the Obama administration's lack of action past that) has pretty much shown you can flaunt international law and do whatever the fark you want if you're the right people. I assumed the UK was somewhere near the top of that hierarchy.
2012-08-15 09:08:40 PM
2 votes:
Yeah, good luck getting him out of the country, Ecuador.

How exactly are you going to get him out of the country without him stepping on UK soil?

The sole option is for him to drive out of the embassy in a diplomatic car, and drive onto a back loaded freight plane at a Ecuadorian private landing strip.

Ecuador has none of those things in the UK.

He'll be arrested during transit, because there's not way for him to reach Ecuador without leaving Ecuadorian sovereignty.
2012-08-15 08:53:27 PM
2 votes:
Seriously, what the fark Brits? You're not Iran.
2012-08-15 08:46:46 PM
2 votes:
Argentina whistles nonchalantly...
2012-08-16 08:30:25 PM
1 votes:
The question should not be about Assange or even Wikileaks.

The question should be whether news organizations should only release what the Government tells them to or should they be trying to actually do their job.
2012-08-16 08:13:59 PM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: I'm kind of amazed, but not really, at the ferocity of the pseudo-liberal white knighting of this a-hole



Probably because sane people view him as doing the same service as Daniel Ellsberg


HotIgneous Intruder: I think most of you don't even realize you live in a world that doesn't play by the rules set by the USA and hasn't been indoctrinated into the "innocent until processed by the 'justice' system" propaganda.
Spies kill people, mostly indirectly.


and that has what to do with wikileaks?

And no, spies don't go around killing people, you watch too many movies

HotIgneous Intruder: It's also pretty funny to me that I get marked as a troll and ignored merely based on expressing my opinions like anybody else. But children hate to have their bubbles burst, eh? Indeed.



You get marked as a troll because of your ignorant uninformed and ridiculous comments that add nothing to the discussion

HotIgneous Intruder: Grow up and smell the coffee and you'll understand that these evil governments represent us in our true psychological forms, en masse. They are us and they act for the good of the group. It's amazing seeing the faux liberal derp. Now I understand why Mamet became a conservative.



Stop using the word derp when you keep spewing it. Governments hiding secrets from everyone are not "representing us" they are doing the exact opposite

HotIgneous Intruder: /Lifelong democratic voter and voted for Obiwanfartbama last time. Never again.


That's my favorite line right behind "I have a lot of black friends, but..."
2012-08-16 06:21:29 PM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: when confronted by facts in the real adult world



Nothing says "facts" and "real world" by accusing someone of being "eurotrash"

Keep preaching the derp. You fit in well on Fark
2012-08-16 03:29:49 PM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: Hilarious. And all over a couple of women and maybe some herpies.


Yeah it's obviously not about that.
You're either a liar or a retard.
2012-08-16 11:40:20 AM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: Phil Moskowitz: If an embassy isn't respected as foreign territory then why would you allow a foreign incursion onto "your" land? That's an act of war.

Ecuador is free to bring the hurt.

/Bwah-hahahahahaha.


So, your loyalty is to whoever has the most power and right versus wrong or rule of law are not so important? I hate that I have to share a planet with people like you, frankly.
2012-08-16 09:51:17 AM
1 votes:
Actually scratch that, he still would have to worry about extralegal measures taken by the USA to get him no matter where he is. Megaupload precedent and all that. If the feds have decided international laws don't matter for a f*cking copyright case, how much more so for espionage?

And in the case of a person, following the law doesn't make you noble or moral, it merely makes you obedient. You'd do well to remember that.
2012-08-16 09:05:57 AM
1 votes:

FlyingLizardOfDoom: ontariolightning: Assange was just granted assylum by Ecuador.

Your move U.K.

They still have to move him through Brittish airspace or land to get him to Ecuador. I sat take em if they ever try to move him. And deny any helicopter or plane access to UK airspace if they try to move him by air. Or jus shoot him down.


then mercosur should take the falkland islands
2012-08-16 08:58:54 AM
1 votes:

Carth: US is hinting it could end the trade benefits program with Ecuador


Uncle Sugar gonna put the hammer down on the Axis of Bananas.

/Time to get out of this country.
2012-08-16 08:58:44 AM
1 votes:
Ecuador should arrest the people inside it's British Embassy as soon as the breech begins. Then, prisoner exchange.
2012-08-16 08:57:45 AM
1 votes:
2012-08-16 08:53:12 AM
1 votes:

TsukasaK: HotIgneous Intruder: The legal issues here, ALL OF THEM, are based on Swedish authorities wanting to question him regarding and incident of a sexual nature in Sweden.

If you believe that's all that would happen the moment he steps out of that embassy, you're a f*cking moron.


That's all that's happening here. Of course he's going to get tried for espionage along with Bradley Manning eventually, but that's beside the point. If Assange went ahead and played the game, he'd bring more people to his cause as a persecuted person than hiding like a rat.
He hasn't got the balls to stand up and be a genuine hero and that makes him a sad character.
2012-08-16 08:48:18 AM
1 votes:

stuartp9: TsukasaK: Political asylum officially granted!

Took forever to get to it! They had a half hour of "fark you, UK" before the final announcement.


That was brilliant, really enjoyed the long list of international Acts preserving immunity, followed by a quick, "so we are granting him asylum." Absolutely the right decision given the implications of what my government is attempting.

Now it gets interesting as he's gonna find it tricky getting out of the UK *rubs hands with glee*
2012-08-16 08:46:53 AM
1 votes:
Reuters: Britain says asylum won't matter, won't matter, won't matter.
2012-08-16 08:45:02 AM
1 votes:

Cat Food Sandwiches: Here's what will probably happen: Ecuador decides not to give him asylum. Three months from now, in a totally unrelated matter, Britian announces a grant of $1 billion for Ecuador foreign aid.


Asylum already granted - watch the livestream.
2012-08-16 08:44:27 AM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: The legal issues here, ALL OF THEM, are based on Swedish authorities wanting to question him regarding and incident of a sexual nature in Sweden.


If you believe that's all that would happen the moment he steps out of that embassy, you're a f*cking moron.
2012-08-16 08:31:22 AM
1 votes:
The real issue here is the serious implication that if my government gets its way here then it's a slippery slope. Russia claims that your embassy is spying and that an individual diplomat is responsible. Now they can take the British precedent and violate any such offending embassy.

I have no great love of Assange, and I understand the reasons behind the 1987 Act that gives my government the power (if you don't know, a policewoman, Yvonne Fletcher, was shot and killed by a gunman in the Libyan embassy in 1986. Because of the diplomatic immunity granted to the embassy the police were unable to go in and arrest the person responsible).

However, the charge against Assange is nowhere near that level of seriousness and I think I have to side with Ecuador, much like pretty much every other one of my compatriots that I've heard today (apart from the government spokespersons, of course).
2012-08-16 08:21:02 AM
1 votes:
Also live on BBC. Ecuador schooling UK in UN and Vienna treaties.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19281396
2012-08-16 06:54:20 AM
1 votes:

DustBunny: Stuff.


I'd say in that case, why do we need a man on the "inside" with whom to deal in secrecy? Sanctions don't come about in a vacuum, especially if the conditions which precipitate said sanctions continue. Why is there a need to interfere beyond refusing to deal with an oppressive regime, and exerting pressure for reform with transparency and accountability, in the first place? Especially when opposition such as Tsvangirai's operates openly? To do otherwise is simply to legitimize complaints against our government in the first place, publicized or not.

And, for each Tsvangirai how many Pinochets, Chamorros, Somozas, Marcos', Pahlavis, Diems, Rhees, Husseins, Noriegas, and Duvaliers need there be before we begin to understand secrecy in geopolitics -- especially US foreign policy -- is a bad thing? Hell, more recently, how many Niger yellowcake forgeries, or going back further Kuwait invasions[1], do we need?

[1] You're free to believe it or not, I don't care, but I know a guy who was a diplomatic attache to Kuwait prior to and during the Gulf War. Contrary to what Kuwait claimed and what we were told in the US, yes the GCC was intentionally shouldering Iraq out of the global oil market by breaking OPEC quotas (at the behest of the US government, no less), yes Kuwait was stiffing Iraq on money owed from the Iran-Iraq War, and yes Kuwait was slant-drilling into sovereign Iraqi territory. Kuwait was in every way the injuring party in that war, and Iraq was completely justified in invading to secure the Rumaila oil field. An oil field, which by amazing coincidence, was owned by British Petroleum until Hussein nationalized it. Just in case you're keeping track (and recognize the name Mohammad Mosaddegh).
2012-08-16 06:30:32 AM
1 votes:

intelligent comment below: So your argument is Wikileaks threatens this? That's a pretty big jump to conclusion. Example?


ummm...the rest of the post?

That wasn't actually a hypothetical, that was what happened. Morgan Tsvangirai is being investigated for treason by the Mugabe regime based on the Guardian article, and faces the death penalty, a great excuse to get rid of a thorn in their side...

Also, if you think that your relationship might be exposed by well meaning 'hacktivists', might you not want to work with the US?

Who knows how many pro-democracy activists are mentioned in the 250,000 diplomatic cables? How many severed their ties? How many never made those ties in the first place?

Who knows what the opportunity cost of pro-democracy activists not making contact with people who can help them etc is? Who knows how much it has damaged progress towards freedom in some of these states?
2012-08-16 06:24:25 AM
1 votes:
My thoughts:

I dislike Julian Assange because my brother is in the military; I really don't like the idea of people violating OpSec.

I think Julian Assange is an American hero, because he is employing the same free speech that my brother is in the military to protect, even at the price of security. (Yeah, I know, cognitive dissonance is fun; I've given up trying to resolve the two)

England needs to go DIAF; you eject the embassadors and give the people a chance to get out before you raid the embassy. Even fricking Iran and Syria know better.
2012-08-16 06:00:53 AM
1 votes:

VonEvilstein: intelligent comment below: VonEvilstein: Because left wing authoritarians never disappeared anyone. Ever.


There is no such thing as a liberal authoritarian, it is anathema to the left wing orthodoxy. You are thinking of military dictators who are right wing authoritarian.

Er, no. I am thinking about commies.



They were some pretty evil right wing military dictatorships, that's for sure.
2012-08-16 05:07:17 AM
1 votes:

thisispete: ...

That's premises, though. As I mentioned upthread, if the Ecuadorians are smart they can declare Assange an ad hoc diplomatic courier - there's nothing in the Convention that says he has to be an Ecuadorian citizen - and the authorities can't touch him. Give him a diplomatic pouch with a blank sheet of paper in it and he's away laughing.


I don't think that they can just declare he has diplomatic status, as far as I know he needs to be presented to and be accepted by the host nation first. That will be quite hard since he'll be arrested as an absconder as soon as he leaves the embassy.

Gosling: I'm pretty sure that if the UK barges in and grabs him, the next thing that happens is Ecuador declaring war and not really giving a shiat what the odds are of them not getting blown to smithereens.


The UK police just barging in and grabbing him isn't going to happen anywhere outside of the wank fantasies of our dear, quotation mark abusing, subby.

If the UK were to withdraw consular status then that requires a decision by the secretary of state (which must be compliant with international law), then a statutory instrument needs to be drafted and submitted to parliament and would be subject to judicial review. Parliament then have at least 40 days to review and potentially annul it before it comes into force.

... only then can the UK government shoot Joss Ackland in the head.

intelligent comment below: VonEvilstein: Because left wing authoritarians never disappeared anyone. Ever.

There is no such thing as a liberal authoritarian, it is anathema to the left wing orthodoxy. You are thinking of military dictators who are right wing authoritarian.


Left Wing=/=Liberal and pretty much any orthodoxy is liable to authoritarianism.
2012-08-16 03:47:25 AM
1 votes:
I'm pretty sure that if the UK barges in and grabs him, the next thing that happens is Ecuador declaring war and not really giving a shiat what the odds are of them not getting blown to smithereens.
2012-08-16 03:35:01 AM
1 votes:
Boy, we better stay on top, the world would have a feeding frenzy on us and the UK if we ever fall low enough.

We look like Rome, weapons everywhere, going broke, divided and paranoid, we become the very thing we started out in opposition to.

Most of what is classified shouldn't have to be for the beacon of freedom and liberty in the world.
2012-08-16 03:09:18 AM
1 votes:

VonEvilstein: ontariolightning: VonEvilstein: The UK government can do it legally. Thatcher's government made it legal.

Presumably, any country maintaining diplomatic or consular premises in the UK is implicitly agreeing to be bound by this law. Ecuador can complain all they like, and say "Well who ever actually reads the EULA?", but they cannot do a thing about it.

legally or not, the slope is slippery

plus the geneva convention out ranks EULA

Does the Geneva Convention mention diplomatic premises? I haven't been able to find any mention of them specifically in an initial Googling. Want to help me out here?

The wording of the UK bill certainly doesn't seem to think it worth mentioning the G.C..

Aaaah, you meant the Vienna Convention, I assume...

"Article 22. The premises of a diplomatic mission, such as an embassy, are inviolate and must not be entered by the host country except by permission of the head of the mission. Furthermore, the host country must protect the mission from intrusion or damage. The host country must never search the premises, nor seize its documents or property. Article 30 extends this provision to the private residence of the diplomats."

Now this is all fine and dandy. But the UK D&CP Act seems to neatly sidestep that by allowing the government to terminate the diplomatic mission status of the premises., and thus be able to act without violating the V.C..


That's premises, though. As I mentioned upthread, if the Ecuadorians are smart they can declare Assange an ad hoc diplomatic courier - there's nothing in the Convention that says he has to be an Ecuadorian citizen - and the authorities can't touch him. Give him a diplomatic pouch with a blank sheet of paper in it and he's away laughing.
2012-08-16 02:40:35 AM
1 votes:

TheBigJerk: the dumbest (but best at lying) tech of the wikileaks support staff (who have basically said he is the "office jerk-ass"). He is completely unnecessary to the functioning of the site


I would argue he makes a great contribution to wikileaks by being such a public and inflammatory figurehead. If people who are angry with Wikileaks focus on him, that takes heat off the people actually running the place.
2012-08-16 02:16:27 AM
1 votes:

m2313: This claim is very questionable. Refer upthread to how much obvious bullshiat this trial is.


No farking shiat. Even the women who originally pressed the charges don't feel they were raped or that Assange did anything particularly egregious against them or their bodies, or harbor any particular ill will against the man himself. They were initially pissed over unprotected contact, and wanted to find out if there was a way to compel Assange to undergo STD testing to protect themselves. They were advised by their attorneys the only way to do so was to press rape charges (whether that resulted in conviction or not), and upon doing so the governments of the western world took and ran with it.
2012-08-16 02:12:01 AM
1 votes:

DustBunny: Say they had an agent that helped avert a huge war crime/massacre/human rights violation and they wanted to keep that under wraps so as to protect that person?


Protect that person from whom or what, exactly? Are you alleging sovereign states cannot protect their own operatives without a shroud of secrecy?

If you're pulling hypotheticals out your ass, so can I. Let's say the White House declassified the names of the DEVGRU members who participated in the bin Laden raid. Given their operational secrecy, I somehow doubt that will compromise the success or failure rate of future operations. I also doubt the security of a tenant command on one of the most heavily-guarded naval bases in the US would be compromised for it, either. And, I seriously doubt anyone on the planet except maybe a handful of lunatics already on enough national security watch lists that they wouldn't be able to come within a two-mile radius of a DEVGRU member without getting swarmed by LEO's would have a major enough problem with one of the guys who shot bin Laden to attempt something stupid. The only people from whom those DEVGRU members would actually "need" protection is the news media and politicians, under threat of not getting five minutes' peace and quiet for the rest of their lives.

So, I say again -- if the government has done nothing wrong, it has nothing to hide.
2012-08-16 02:06:51 AM
1 votes:
subby I stole your headline...

/Ecuadorian
//OMG NOW EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT MY COUNTRY EXISTS!!!
///No, is not on Africa.
2012-08-16 02:02:01 AM
1 votes:

The Dog Ate The Constitution: Assange raped a girl. Liberals idolize Assange. Liberals idolize a rapist. You are a fool.


This claim is very questionable. Refer upthread to how much obvious bullshiat this trial is.
Reagan and his administration funded and supported terrorists. Conservatives idollize Reagan. Conservatives idolize terrorists. You are a fool.
And last time I checked the "liberal" party wasn't the one voting for bills protecting rapists in Congress.
2012-08-16 02:01:51 AM
1 votes:
You guys are hilarious.

Assange has been a done deal. He'll never ever truly be free again no matter where he goes and he is a great way to play "Look at THIS! Look over HERE! You want to WATCH THIS!" and distract folk from other shenanigans.

It doesn't help that his dickbag ego feeds off this so he is pretty much just as guilty.
2012-08-16 01:56:18 AM
1 votes:

Magruda: DustBunny: that bosnian sniper: Hey, if governments have done nothing wrong they have nothing to hide, right?

And if they want to hide something they did right?

Say they had an agent that helped avert a huge war crime/massacre/human rights violation and they wanted to keep that under wraps so as to protect that person?

You can play "what if" all day. Did the information released endanger anyone? Sources say no. Did it embarass governments and show they have been lying to their people? Yes.


Some of the things they released were the international diplomacy equivalent of throwing an irate housecat at the legs of some complicated synchronized dancing for no other purpose than to trip up the dancers. Wikileaks does more good than harm but I just can't agree that a world without secrets or discretion is a good thing. Sometimes a quiet, secure conversation is the difference between a bloody war and boring staring contest.

That said, Assange should go to prison in Sweden for the crime of being a dickbag, nothing more.
2012-08-16 01:48:17 AM
1 votes:

Phil Moskowitz: halfof33: Phil Moskowitz: You stupid assholes are going after a guy who is exposing lies your own government tried to keep from you and you feel patriotic doing so.

Do you not feel like shiatheads? I just loath your kind. You're the entropy in society. You're going to ruin humanity by being dumb kids.

Well, we'll always have internet rebels to post bizarre rants to keep us in line.

Julian Assange is 99% hype, 1% rape and 100% internet fanboys. Nobody cares

And if you believe that, you're a goddamn robot. You really don't get whats going on. You think a diplomatic invasion of a consulate is justified for a bullshiat rape charge?

You just like the world you live in , and you don't want it to be farked with, right?


Or it could be that Julian Assange is an asshole. He self-aggrandizes like mad, he swaggers around conning women into farking him by pretending to be this International man of mystery instead of the dumbest (but best at lying) tech of the wikileaks support staff (who have basically said he is the "office jerk-ass"). He is completely unnecessary to the functioning of the site and he's unlikable. 98% hype, 1% rape (because that charge wasn't trumped-up) and 1% usefulness to the general cause of freedom and openness.

Wikileaks itself? Does more good than bad. It's not the bastion of perfect freedom people would like to believe, they grind axes, they disrespect things that actually should have remained private, and they shiat the bed when they could have just changed the sheets; but they're still shining sunshine on things that need to be lit up.
2012-08-16 01:47:59 AM
1 votes:

DustBunny: intelligent comment below: So a person getting data from a source and publishing it in an article is NOT a journalist but rather a publisher?

I guess I assume a certain amount of value add from a 'Journalist', not just Ctrl C / Ctrl V


Dude, reporting the news, IS just Ctrl C / Ctrl V. Adding opinion is what you have come to expect from the people who tell you how to think.
2012-08-16 01:36:51 AM
1 votes:

FlyingLizardOfDoom: My problem with Wikileaks is that they recklessly publish information without care as to who gets hurt by it. Despite what the liberals want you to believe, you do NOT have the right to know everything.


Hey, if governments have done nothing wrong they have nothing to hide, right?
2012-08-16 01:29:24 AM
1 votes:

FlyingLizardOfDoom: Magruda: FlyingLizardOfDoom: However, as in the case of the babel fish, reducing barriers to information only starts wars, instead of preventing them

Know how i know you didn't actually read Douglas Adams?

You are making the case for a police state ala George Orwell, another genius of scifi you should reread.

I am in favor of a police state if it will reign in on reckless publication of private information.


Got you marked as Police State fark.
2012-08-16 01:23:23 AM
1 votes:

FlyingLizardOfDoom: However, as in the case of the babel fish, reducing barriers to information only starts wars, instead of preventing them


Know how i know you didn't actually read Douglas Adams?

You are making the case for a police state ala George Orwell, another genius of scifi you should reread.
2012-08-16 01:20:02 AM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: Oh no. You clearly misunderstood what I wrote.
Say Mister Assange comes to the states and rapes Miss America.
He'll get charged in Florida with that crime. Florida will hold him, and put him on trial, then he will serve his sentence. OR he could be denied a trial and deported immediately. He really has no rights except those the prosecutor decides he has under trial protocols. His status as a foreigner grants him no special immunities or privileges and any rights he gets are strictly at the pleasure of the prosecutor. He won't be imprisoned without a trial in the case of rape.

However, if he was a spy, all bets are WAAAAAAY off. Under Patriot Act provisions, he could be classed as a terrorist or a foreign spy (also covered under separate federal laws) and held until hell freezes or he dies or whatever.



Take your meds bro
2012-08-16 01:19:26 AM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: More like I swatted it like a fly and moved on.
/Uniforms don't apply to me; I'm no authoritarian. Check your meds.



Riiight, you just happen to be trolling only when you get caught in your ignorance. How convenient. And yes, take your meds, anyone who trolls needs to take meds.
2012-08-16 01:15:26 AM
1 votes:

DustBunny: Magruda: Location has no effect on a Q&A session.

if location has no effect on a Q&A session why should they come to England? Why shouldn't he go to Sweden?


Because if they lock him up during the Q&A session he can't seek asylum if the US requests extradition. Again, he is just wanted for questioning, no charges have been filed.
2012-08-16 01:04:51 AM
1 votes:

DustBunny: Why should they talk to him in the UK if they want to talk to him where he committed the crime?


Lets put aside the fact that you assign guilt before charges have even been filed. Location has no effect on a Q&A session.

DustBunny: Personally, I reckon that if he has the courage of his convictions he should go even if he does get pinched by the Americans...become a Martyr


How brave of you to suggest that someone give up their life. Actually laying down your life is much harder than just talking about it.

JAYoung: My problem with Wikileaks is that it's still focused on governments when they should be publishing the cables of the people really running the world, the multi-national corporations


Know how i know you have not been paying attention to what they have been releasing? Because they have been leaking corporate information.
2012-08-16 12:57:07 AM
1 votes:

Magruda: The legal team has offered many a time to allow interviews by Swedish prosecutors of Assange there in the UK. Makes it hard for them to take that stance after the fact.


Why should they talk to him in the UK if they want to talk to him where he committed the crime?

Why shouldn't Assange go to Sweden?

Apart from the conspiracy theories of course...my point is that if the conspiracy theories turn out to be false, Assange is just being a dick for no reason, or rather for the reason of trying to avoid questioning about a sex crime.

Taking away the conspiracy just makes him a dick trying to escape the minor inconvenience of going to Sweden to talk to the police. He's already lost a lot of support from people like me who think that he's just being a dick.

Personally, I reckon that if he has the courage of his convictions he should go even if he does get pinched by the Americans...become a Martyr. He has the balls to put himself at the head of the whole thing, big note himself as the target of the great satan, well, go and have your trial, defend yourself, show them for the bastards they are. Prove that the Americans are everything that you say they are.

Become our generations Nelson Mandela.
2012-08-16 12:20:38 AM
1 votes:

RulerOfNone: HotIgneous Intruder: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: It's about time we took sex offenses seriously. I for one am glad to see the UK and Sweden taking such a firm stance against sex offenders, particularly difficult to prosecute acquaintance rape. I look forward to future blockades of embassies, similar levels of police massive involvement and drawn out extradition across national borders in all rape cases reported in both countries from now on.

And it's equally refreshing to see a man accused of such a crime running and hiding and fighting being held accountable for it as though his very life depends up on it.

Assange's behavior seems a bit irrational, right?

Not when he knows this is all for political reasons. The US wants him because he made them look bad. God knows what they'll do to him if they actually manage to get their claws on him.


Supermax prison, complete isolation for as long as he lives is a real possibility.
2012-08-16 12:02:20 AM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: Yeah, but it was a gentle troll and stupid enough to get the solid, easy answer.



Ah yes, the "I was just trolling, honest!" defense

Works every time after you embarrass yourself with a complete lack of knowledge. Go back to the barracks, being the lowest rank means you have no free time
2012-08-15 11:52:23 PM
1 votes:

dywed88: No. Any foreigner is afforded full protections and rights under the constitution (unless something is specifically granted to citizens).


Not if the Patriot Act precludes it. The PA rolled back all kinds of due process and civil rights provisions.
2012-08-15 11:50:28 PM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: Correct, as I see it.
Remember also that Assange has no rights under American law, since he's not a citizen.
(That kind of gives me the chills, the idea that he might have the same legal status as, say, an al-qaeda fighter under anti-terrorism laws, such as Patriot Act.)


No. Any foreigner is afforded full protections and rights under the constitution (unless something is specifically granted to citizens).

With the people held at Gitmo, they are being held under military law, that is what removes many of the protections as it does for soldiers. It is also part of the reason for insisting on the "enemy combatants" designation and for holding them on foreign soil. It would be more difficult to avoid legal protections if they were simply claimed to be "terror suspects" or some such and held on US soil.

Assange would certainly enter the civilian courts and be afforded all constitutional protections.
2012-08-15 11:35:01 PM
1 votes:

sleeps in trees: Legally it makes no sense. His leaks really did jack. I know we have the OMG he leaked stuff but in the big picture it harmed no one. Ms Plame lost her status, job and now may never be able to travel abroad , let alone her husband and family are suspect.


Nobody outside of intelligence circles really knows, or will probably never know, if anyone got killed because of Libby's leaking. He exposed a CIA officer's identity. But he was part of the power elite in D.C., so he got off easy. If you or I did that, we'd be under a prison somewhere.
2012-08-15 11:26:43 PM
1 votes:

Thunderbox: I saw a nationally televised video of the girl he alledgedly raped accompanying him to a mutual friends barbeque on the afternoon after the alledged rape.

Maybe one raping wasn't enough for her..

On the same programme, in a diferent video, she confessed on camera the the Swedish prosecuter coerced her into making damning allegations against Assange.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/07/19/3549280.htm



Both girls were caught bragging to friends about sleeping with him. And didn't report the rape until over a week after. But I'm sure it was just because they were so traumatized.
2012-08-15 11:22:36 PM
1 votes:

Esc7: sleeps in trees: HotIgneous Intruder: That was Valerie Plame. The guy they tried to prosecute was Dick Cheney's staffer, Scooter Libby.
He got convicted.

Then George W. Bush commuted his prison sentence.


Thanks, I still cannot figure why one is thought to be treasonous yet the others are given a free ride (in my eyes).

Because one was part of the Bush presidency and the other is some non-rich non-powerful nobody who threatens the people in power by the very idea of a future where these leaks are mundane?

or was that more of a rhetorical question.


Legally it makes no sense. His leaks really did jack. I know we have the OMG he leaked stuff but in the big picture it harmed no one. Ms Plame lost her status, job and now may never be able to travel abroad , let alone her husband and family are suspect.
2012-08-15 11:07:45 PM
1 votes:

WhyteRaven74: One slight problem remains, there's no law against publishing US secrets with the exception of crypto keys, the positions of submarines and a couple other things. But none of what's covered was in the US part of wikileaks.


So long as Manning just gave him the documents he has that defence. Any prosecution that he was involved and encouraged Manning to steal the documents.
There is the argument that press protections do not apply to him.
2012-08-15 11:00:58 PM
1 votes:
2012-08-15 11:00:26 PM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: That was Valerie Plame. The guy they tried to prosecute was Dick Cheney's staffer, Scooter Libby.
He got convicted.

Then George W. Bush commuted his prison sentence.



Thanks, I still cannot figure why one is thought to be treasonous yet the others are given a free ride (in my eyes).
2012-08-15 10:59:30 PM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: Sleeps in Trees asked, I answered.


I know, I was just putting it out there for anyone who might try to lump the two together.
2012-08-15 10:57:04 PM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: Scooter Libby.


Different between Scooter and Julian is that Scooter broke a US law, Julian hasn't.
2012-08-15 10:52:43 PM
1 votes:
One slight problem remains, there's no law against publishing US secrets with the exception of crypto keys, the positions of submarines and a couple other things. But none of what's covered was in the US part of wikileaks.
2012-08-15 10:50:27 PM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Magruda: There is a sealed indictment for him. They are just waiting for the right time to present it.

Its not news, its Stratfor.com.

Check it out here.

snip: "Burton's information had the ring of truth. As Salon's Glenn Greenwald reported last May, a secret grand jury had begun taking testimony from Wikileaks supporters in a courtroom in Alexandria, Virginia. In December, during the pre-trial hearings of Bradley Manning, the Army private who allegedly gave WikiLeaks a huge trove of classified information in 2009, prosecutors repeatedly tried to convince the judge that Assange had conspired with Manning to release the data."

Assange is going down with Manning. Conspiracy to commit espionage, espionage, etc.
This is a death penalty offence and if the US admits that too soon, Assange will fight extradition on human rights grounds.


I'm just curiouse what happened to the people that outed your CIA agent? Can't remember her name (cute blonde husband in the embassy).
2012-08-15 10:48:08 PM
1 votes:

beta_plus: Penn State


F*ck off asshole.
2012-08-15 10:45:53 PM
1 votes:

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Magruda: There is a sealed indictment for him. They are just waiting for the right time to present it.

Its not news, its Stratfor.com.


Check it out here.

snip: "Burton's information had the ring of truth. As Salon's Glenn Greenwald reported last May, a secret grand jury had begun taking testimony from Wikileaks supporters in a courtroom in Alexandria, Virginia. In December, during the pre-trial hearings of Bradley Manning, the Army private who allegedly gave WikiLeaks a huge trove of classified information in 2009, prosecutors repeatedly tried to convince the judge that Assange had conspired with Manning to release the data."

Assange is going down with Manning. Conspiracy to commit espionage, espionage, etc.
This is a death penalty offence and if the US admits that too soon, Assange will fight extradition on human rights grounds.
2012-08-15 10:35:17 PM
1 votes:

sleeps in trees: sillydragon: Phil Moskowitz: sillydragon: It's good to know that the UK is still our biatch.

They're not your anything. The American people are just as much an enemy to the American government and corporate leaders are everyone else on the planet. You need to disabuse yourself of your notion of being on top.

That was a collective 'our', as in the country. They most certainly are the biatch of our government. Or did you think this is the usual UK reaction to a dubious rape case?

If it makes you feel better, I'd rather they weren't. And think it's a pretty good thing Assange did, though he's probably going to suffer a lot for it.

That is a sad statement. To have a friend ( and call them your biatch) because they are afraid of you and proud of it is being a bully.


You should get your sarcasm detector fixed. That "good" was sarcasm. I'd rather the US never get it's hands on Assange. And I'd rather the UK response to the US in all of this be something like "Hahaha, you want us to do what? How about no? Do your own farking dirty work."
2012-08-15 10:30:40 PM
1 votes:

pippi longstocking: I really feel bad for Assange, this is obviously a which hunt on a guy that only did what any good journalist should be doing...if they all weren't shills to the system that is.


No he isn't. The "good journalist" is what The Guardian did with the cables (made sure no-one would die before they published anything, and spent weeks and weeks making sure they didn't). Just read the accounts of Assange being outraged that Wikileaks wasn't in charge. It's nothing to do with openness or transparency, it's entirely about Assange's ego.

He's a self-absorbed ass. And probably a rapist.
2012-08-15 10:30:10 PM
1 votes:

cman: With all of those black CIA sites, I doubt he would risk turning himself in to an ally of the US.


Or maybe he's just a misogynist weasel who thinks he's above the law. Seriously, the best the CIA could do was rape allegations in Sweden? Why not the UK itself? I mean, since when did Sweden beat out our permanent coalition buddy Britain as our go to place for extraditing threats to national security?

Speak truth to power to the disaffected, and you can puree a baby in front of thousands and your true believers will claim its a frame-up. Assange is no different there from George W. Bush or, hell, President Obama himself. And he seems like a smart enough guy to know how to use that to his advantage too.
2012-08-15 10:30:00 PM
1 votes:

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: HotIgneous Intruder: And it's equally refreshing to see a man accused of such a crime running and hiding and fighting being held accountable for it as though his very life depends up on it he is above the law.

FTFY. If Assange had the courage of his convictions, he would've gone to Sweden once the extradition appeals were over.


Mr. Eugenides: Yeah, but on the other side, there's a guy who's willing to head to Equador to avoid charges in Sweden. It's not like he's being extradited to Saudi Arabia and it's not like he'd be any less safe in Sweden than he is in England.


He'd be disappeared as soon as he got out of the airplane in Stockholm and enhanced interrogated within 24 hours. I doubt the UK (and the US by proxy) would go through all this trouble to get a guy who may or may not be guilty of the sex crime equivalent of failing to come to a complete stop at a stop sign if they didn't have some sort of ulterior motive.
2012-08-15 10:28:50 PM
1 votes:

sillydragon: Phil Moskowitz: sillydragon: It's good to know that the UK is still our biatch.

They're not your anything. The American people are just as much an enemy to the American government and corporate leaders are everyone else on the planet. You need to disabuse yourself of your notion of being on top.

That was a collective 'our', as in the country. They most certainly are the biatch of our government. Or did you think this is the usual UK reaction to a dubious rape case?

If it makes you feel better, I'd rather they weren't. And think it's a pretty good thing Assange did, though he's probably going to suffer a lot for it.


That is a sad statement. To have a friend ( and call them your biatch) because they are afraid of you and proud of it is being a bully.
2012-08-15 10:27:12 PM
1 votes:

Mr. Eugenides: nmemkha: Wow Britain is willing to risk and international incident bring a man to justice on shaky "non-violent rape" charges?

Yeah, but on the other side, there's a guy who's willing to head to Equador to avoid charges in Sweden. It's not like he's being extradited to Saudi Arabia and it's not like he'd be any less safe in Sweden than he is in England.


He's theoretically more safe. It's much harder to go Sweden->US than UK->US, and neither country will extradite if there's the possibility of the death penalty.

He doesn't want to go to Sweden because he has wandering hands.
2012-08-15 10:26:50 PM
1 votes:

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Rockstone: As much as I disagree with some of what Assange has done, and some of the leaks on wikileaks, leaks about some of the abuses the US government has committed are necessary to be known.

Truth. WikiLeaks does the world an enormous service.


Indeed. Knowledge is power.
2012-08-15 10:26:11 PM
1 votes:
I really feel bad for Assange, this is obviously a which hunt on a guy that only did what any good journalist should be doing...if they all weren't shills to the system that is.
2012-08-15 10:23:59 PM
1 votes:

Rockstone: As much as I disagree with some of what Assange has done, and some of the leaks on wikileaks, leaks about some of the abuses the US government has committed are necessary to be known.


Truth. WikiLeaks does the world an enormous service.
2012-08-15 10:13:51 PM
1 votes:
Under the Vienna Convention, embassies are inviolable to search and seizure without the consent of the head of mission, but contrary to popular belief they remain the soverign territory of the host nation.

You might ask how Ecuador could get Assange out of the country - they could designate him as a diplomatic courier and then he himself would be inviolable.
2012-08-15 10:13:46 PM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: It's about time we took sex offenses seriously. I for one am glad to see the UK and Sweden taking such a firm stance against sex offenders, particularly difficult to prosecute acquaintance rape. I look forward to future blockades of embassies, similar levels of police massive involvement and drawn out extradition across national borders in all rape cases reported in both countries from now on.

And it's equally refreshing to see a man accused of such a crime running and hiding and fighting being held accountable for it as though his very life depends up on it.

Assange's behavior seems a bit irrational, right?


Not when he knows this is all for political reasons. The US wants him because he made them look bad. God knows what they'll do to him if they actually manage to get their claws on him.
2012-08-15 10:11:48 PM
1 votes:
It's good to know that the UK is still our biatch.
2012-08-15 10:09:41 PM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: Phil Moskowitz: If an embassy isn't respected as foreign territory then why would you allow a foreign incursion onto "your" land? That's an act of war.

Ecuador is free to bring the hurt.

/Bwah-hahahahahaha.


Because it's only Ecuador watching. And it's ok to fark over the weak.
2012-08-15 10:08:31 PM
1 votes:
Let me say this:
As much as I disagree with some of what Assange has done, and some of the leaks on wikileaks, leaks about some of the abuses the US government has committed are necessary to be known.
I wish there were websites devoted to leaks that did not involve threats to national security (such as revealing locations of secret agents), and instead was committed only to exposing human rights abuses.
2012-08-15 10:03:33 PM
1 votes:

Rockstone: Death penalty wouldn't be, considering he didn't commit treason on US soil.


Espionage is not always equal to treason. IIRC no one who spied for the USSR was ever charged with treason because we were not in a shooting war with the Soviet Union.


Also, he could never be charged with treason because he is not an American citizen.
2012-08-15 09:47:41 PM
1 votes:

Bungles: The logic on this entire thing relies on the presumption that Sweden would just roll over and hand him over if asked.

Given that it's far, far easier for the US to extradite him from the UK due to a simplified Anglo-US process... if the US wanted him, they'd request him from British custody (which he's been in numerous times).

It doesn't make any sense to presume that Sweden is the easier route.


It's not just turning him over. It's the charges and the possible outcomes that matter.
If death penalty is possible, UK won't extradite, I think. (Don't know this for sure. Does anyone?)
2012-08-15 09:47:40 PM
1 votes:
Anonymous @YourAnonNews

BREAKING: Unconfirmed reports from one of our livestreamers of raid currently in progress on Ecuadaor Embassy in London. #OpProtectAssange
2012-08-15 09:36:34 PM
1 votes:

machodonkeywrestler: Bungles: cameroncrazy1984: Bungles: Yeah, good luck getting him out of the country, Ecuador.

How exactly are you going to get him out of the country without him stepping on UK soil?

The sole option is for him to drive out of the embassy in a diplomatic car, and drive onto a back loaded freight plane at a Ecuadorian private landing strip.

Ecuador has none of those things in the UK.

He'll be arrested during transit, because there's not way for him to reach Ecuador without leaving Ecuadorian sovereignty.

Ecuadorian military or diplomatic helicopter to a waiting ship off the coast.


From where? They don't have a helipad, and they can't exactly hover a tactical military helicopter over central London without quite quickly becoming "the bad guys".

I also suspect that they don't have a ship with a helipad either (they're not exactly common, outside the major powers and Jame Bond films).

Here's one for about 1.5 million.

Link


Ecuador already ships drugs via diplomatic pouch. Just put him in a big crate and try to send it out of hte country.
2012-08-15 09:36:20 PM
1 votes:

cman: UK is full of talk

They wont risk the international punishments


Where do you think the US inherited its attitude from? Of course they will and the economy being what it is, people may threaten punishment but they wont' follow through.
2012-08-15 09:28:38 PM
1 votes:

FlyingLizardOfDoom: Someone needs to take this guy out. He is a threat to international security.


And this is why the current batch of humans deserve a goddamn extinction level event to their shiatty society. farking programmable automata.
2012-08-15 09:15:50 PM
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: Bungles: Yeah, good luck getting him out of the country, Ecuador.

How exactly are you going to get him out of the country without him stepping on UK soil?

The sole option is for him to drive out of the embassy in a diplomatic car, and drive onto a back loaded freight plane at a Ecuadorian private landing strip.

Ecuador has none of those things in the UK.

He'll be arrested during transit, because there's not way for him to reach Ecuador without leaving Ecuadorian sovereignty.

Ecuadorian military or diplomatic helicopter to a waiting ship off the coast.



From where? They don't have a helipad, and they can't exactly hover a tactical military helicopter over central London without quite quickly becoming "the bad guys".

I also suspect that they don't have a ship with a helipad either (they're not exactly common, outside the major powers and Jame Bond films).
2012-08-15 09:15:24 PM
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: Ecuadorian military or diplomatic helicopter to a waiting ship off the coast.


You think Ecuador has these kinds of assets? They might have them in the Pacific, but not sitting off the coast of England.
2012-08-15 09:14:43 PM
1 votes:
Wow Britain is willing to risk and international incident bring a man to justice on shaky "non-violent rape" charges?
2012-08-15 09:13:38 PM
1 votes:
So the SAS pops in and takes Assange for turning over to the USA.

What will Ecuador do?
Declare indignation in a strongly worded letter?
2012-08-15 09:08:29 PM
1 votes:
Until he went to the Embassy, he hosted an interesting interview show while under house arrest:

Link

The one with the Ecuadorian president was interesting.
2012-08-15 09:06:54 PM
1 votes:

iaazathot: Wow, he really, really scares the power brokers that much, huh.


That's how I'm looking at it.

But isn't he just a figure head for wikileaks, now? They are still active, aren't they?
2012-08-15 09:05:21 PM
1 votes:
The Brits sure do take alleged sexual assault mega-seriously...
2012-08-15 08:29:28 PM
1 votes:

Captain Steroid: Goddammit, England! Have a spy poison his food or something, but do NOT storm a foreign embassy! That's how wars get started!
>:-(


www.historyguy.com


Depends on who is in charge
2012-08-15 08:10:09 PM
1 votes:
Goddammit, England! Have a spy poison his food or something, but do NOT storm a foreign embassy! That's how wars get started!
>:-(
 
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