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(BBC)   UK to Ecuadoran embassy: "Either hand over Julian Assange or we'll go in there and get him ourselves." Ecuador: "Uhm, we are not a British colony." UK: "WHARRGARBL"   (bbc.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Julian Assange, Ecuadoran, Knightsbridge, foreign office, submarine communications cable, Ecuador, WikiLeaks  
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4974 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Aug 2012 at 8:56 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-15 09:36:34 PM  

machodonkeywrestler: Bungles: cameroncrazy1984: Bungles: Yeah, good luck getting him out of the country, Ecuador.

How exactly are you going to get him out of the country without him stepping on UK soil?

The sole option is for him to drive out of the embassy in a diplomatic car, and drive onto a back loaded freight plane at a Ecuadorian private landing strip.

Ecuador has none of those things in the UK.

He'll be arrested during transit, because there's not way for him to reach Ecuador without leaving Ecuadorian sovereignty.

Ecuadorian military or diplomatic helicopter to a waiting ship off the coast.


From where? They don't have a helipad, and they can't exactly hover a tactical military helicopter over central London without quite quickly becoming "the bad guys".

I also suspect that they don't have a ship with a helipad either (they're not exactly common, outside the major powers and Jame Bond films).

Here's one for about 1.5 million.

Link


Ecuador already ships drugs via diplomatic pouch. Just put him in a big crate and try to send it out of hte country.
 
2012-08-15 09:37:29 PM  

Bungles: Esc7: HotIgneous Intruder: Bungles: Especially given he should, you know, have gone to the Australian embassy. Then the situation would be different.

Yeah. He would be turned over to the US nearly instantly.

Truth. The USA exerts a gravitational field over nearly all english speaking/ NATO countries.

Seriously it is looking like Assange is going to have live the rest of his days out in unfriendly banana republics or the bad boys club(totalitarian antagonist states), like they would ever take him in.

The guy is plain farked. more as a future message to anyone who dares republish American data on the internet.


Then why does the UK, the most Englishy of all English-speaking countries, have no intention or plans to hand him over to the US?


Maybe the check hasn't cleared?
 
2012-08-15 09:41:18 PM  
The logic on this entire thing relies on the presumption that Sweden would just roll over and hand him over if asked.

Given that it's far, far easier for the US to extradite him from the UK due to a simplified Anglo-US process... if the US wanted him, they'd request him from British custody (which he's been in numerous times).

It doesn't make any sense to presume that Sweden is the easier route.
 
2012-08-15 09:41:45 PM  
I recall reading an article about the swedish charges and how the laws over such things are very unusual. Although I don't remember exactly how it went, the basic gist of it was no lawyer outside of sweden would be able to make sense out of it as the charges went back and forth and how even though the women said the sex was consensual it was still rape.
 
2012-08-15 09:43:33 PM  

Bungles: machodonkeywrestler: Bungles: cameroncrazy1984: Bungles: Yeah, good luck getting him out of the country, Ecuador.

How exactly are you going to get him out of the country without him stepping on UK soil?

The sole option is for him to drive out of the embassy in a diplomatic car, and drive onto a back loaded freight plane at a Ecuadorian private landing strip.

Ecuador has none of those things in the UK.

He'll be arrested during transit, because there's not way for him to reach Ecuador without leaving Ecuadorian sovereignty.

Ecuadorian military or diplomatic helicopter to a waiting ship off the coast.


From where? They don't have a helipad, and they can't exactly hover a tactical military helicopter over central London without quite quickly becoming "the bad guys".

I also suspect that they don't have a ship with a helipad either (they're not exactly common, outside the major powers and Jame Bond films).

Here's one for about 1.5 million.

Link


Well that's lovely. Now does Ecuador have one? Or are you suggesting they go buy one?


I would imagine quite a few of Ecuador's "private" citizens has one they would be happy to lend the government for looking the other way at an undisclosed time in the future.
 
2012-08-15 09:44:29 PM  

brianbankerus: Because the US hasn't filed charges. Can't extradite without charges.


If the US files espionage charges, for which death is a possible sentence, I don't think any country will give him up. I don't think the UK will allow extradition in death penalty cases. Once the UK gets him, US can file charges for lesser crimes, then add the espionage charge later. Or the US might just let the Swedes have their way with him if there's a possibility of prison time. Or maybe not any of this. Anything could happen.
Assange certainly is going to extremes to stay out of the hands of US allies.
 
2012-08-15 09:45:50 PM  
From twitter

Tweeters currently outside of the Ecuadorian Embassy in London:

@odotm
@trh_humunculus
@alburyj #Assange h/t
@DharmaPunkx

Retweeted by WikiLeaks
 
2012-08-15 09:47:40 PM  
Anonymous @YourAnonNews

BREAKING: Unconfirmed reports from one of our livestreamers of raid currently in progress on Ecuadaor Embassy in London. #OpProtectAssange
 
2012-08-15 09:47:41 PM  

Bungles: The logic on this entire thing relies on the presumption that Sweden would just roll over and hand him over if asked.

Given that it's far, far easier for the US to extradite him from the UK due to a simplified Anglo-US process... if the US wanted him, they'd request him from British custody (which he's been in numerous times).

It doesn't make any sense to presume that Sweden is the easier route.


It's not just turning him over. It's the charges and the possible outcomes that matter.
If death penalty is possible, UK won't extradite, I think. (Don't know this for sure. Does anyone?)
 
2012-08-15 09:47:43 PM  
Pic of MET police outside embassy.

Whether they went in or not is to be determined...
 
2012-08-15 09:51:29 PM  

Bungles: Yeah, good luck getting him out of the country, Ecuador.

How exactly are you going to get him out of the country without him stepping on UK soil?


Put him in a diplomatic pouch. Two if necessary.
 
2012-08-15 09:53:22 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: Looks like they've been taking lessons in diplomacy from the United States.


Oh come on dude. Is your world history knowledge so poor that you actually think the UK learned this from the US?

England holds the all time gold medal in imperial international law busting. This is just going back to the old (pre-1960s) playbook for international relations.
 
2012-08-15 09:53:41 PM  
According to here, "Police have entered the building from another entrance in a side lane."
 
2012-08-15 09:57:00 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: According to here, "Police have entered the building from another entrance in a side lane."


Wow, welp, time to bomb some UK embassies I guess.
 
2012-08-15 09:57:36 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: According to here, "Police have entered the building from another entrance in a side lane."


The "building housing the embassy", not the actual embassy.
 
2012-08-15 09:57:44 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: According to here, "Police have entered the building from another entrance in a side lane."


FTA: One person stationed outside the embassy, identifying himself as a "citizen journalist" with the twitter account https://twitter.com/alburyj was streaming the activity, but the feed has since stopped.

Well I guess somebody showed him how free the net is.
 
2012-08-15 09:58:00 PM  
"So Mister Assange, we meet AGAIN!"
"Curses, Javert! You'll never take me alive!"
 
2012-08-15 09:58:50 PM  

Esc7: oh right sweden. forgot about them. yeah they would get first crack. but after he's in custody there is no way his path doesn't end up in the US. Probably something like gitmo so they can preform "enhanced interrogation" like they are on manning.


Are we still doing such horrors to human beings?
I wish there was a way I could stop such abuse
 
2012-08-15 09:59:08 PM  

Phil Moskowitz: ArcadianRefugee: According to here, "Police have entered the building from another entrance in a side lane."

Wow, welp, time to bomb some UK embassies I guess.


Why?
 
2012-08-15 09:59:08 PM  

Bungles: I also suspect that they don't have a ship with a helipad either (they're not exactly common, outside the major powers and Jame Bond films).


I don't know if he still does, but Craig McCaw (McCaw Cellular/AT&T Wireless) used to have one.
 
2012-08-15 09:59:53 PM  

BafflerMeal: DOS


A DoSS is possible, but I actually think that its more of a Farked link situation. Too many users and not enough resources.
 
2012-08-15 10:00:02 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Bungles: The logic on this entire thing relies on the presumption that Sweden would just roll over and hand him over if asked.

Given that it's far, far easier for the US to extradite him from the UK due to a simplified Anglo-US process... if the US wanted him, they'd request him from British custody (which he's been in numerous times).

It doesn't make any sense to presume that Sweden is the easier route.

It's not just turning him over. It's the charges and the possible outcomes that matter.
If death penalty is possible, UK won't extradite, I think. (Don't know this for sure. Does anyone?)


Death penalty wouldn't be, considering he didn't commit treason on US soil.

(any penalty is retarded though)
 
2012-08-15 10:00:32 PM  

Triumph: ArcadianRefugee: According to here, "Police have entered the building from another entrance in a side lane."

FTA: One person stationed outside the embassy, identifying himself as a "citizen journalist" with the twitter account https://twitter.com/alburyj was streaming the activity, but the feed has since stopped.

Well I guess somebody showed him how free the net is.


It's running now:

Link

Also rt.com continues to follow it frequently on air:

Link
 
2012-08-15 10:01:39 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Phil Moskowitz: ArcadianRefugee: According to here, "Police have entered the building from another entrance in a side lane."

Wow, welp, time to bomb some UK embassies I guess.

Why?


If an embassy isn't respected as foreign territory then why would you allow a foreign incursion onto "your" land? That's an act of war.
 
2012-08-15 10:01:53 PM  

Rockstone: HotIgneous Intruder: Bungles: The logic on this entire thing relies on the presumption that Sweden would just roll over and hand him over if asked.

Given that it's far, far easier for the US to extradite him from the UK due to a simplified Anglo-US process... if the US wanted him, they'd request him from British custody (which he's been in numerous times).

It doesn't make any sense to presume that Sweden is the easier route.

It's not just turning him over. It's the charges and the possible outcomes that matter.
If death penalty is possible, UK won't extradite, I think. (Don't know this for sure. Does anyone?)

Death penalty wouldn't be, considering he didn't commit treason on US soil.

(any penalty is retarded though)



Of course not being a US citizen and his actions not being on US soil, he cannot actually commit treason...
 
2012-08-15 10:03:30 PM  

BafflerMeal: Of course not being a US citizen and his actions not being on US soil, he cannot actually commit treason...


He can be charged with espionage.
 
2012-08-15 10:03:33 PM  

Rockstone: Death penalty wouldn't be, considering he didn't commit treason on US soil.


Espionage is not always equal to treason. IIRC no one who spied for the USSR was ever charged with treason because we were not in a shooting war with the Soviet Union.


Also, he could never be charged with treason because he is not an American citizen.
 
2012-08-15 10:04:06 PM  
It's about time we took sex offenses seriously. I for one am glad to see the UK and Sweden taking such a firm stance against sex offenders, particularly difficult to prosecute acquaintance rape. I look forward to future blockades of embassies, similar levels of police massive involvement and drawn out extradition across national borders in all rape cases reported in both countries from now on.
 
2012-08-15 10:04:41 PM  

Phil Moskowitz: If an embassy isn't respected as foreign territory then why would you allow a foreign incursion onto "your" land? That's an act of war.


Ecuador is free to bring the hurt.

/Bwah-hahahahahaha.
 
2012-08-15 10:06:50 PM  

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: It's about time we took sex offenses seriously. I for one am glad to see the UK and Sweden taking such a firm stance against sex offenders, particularly difficult to prosecute acquaintance rape. I look forward to future blockades of embassies, similar levels of police massive involvement and drawn out extradition across national borders in all rape cases reported in both countries from now on.


And it's equally refreshing to see a man accused of such a crime running and hiding and fighting being held accountable for it as though his very life depends up on it.

Assange's behavior seems a bit irrational, right?
 
2012-08-15 10:07:59 PM  
Wikileaks twitter feed is keeping up to date. Looks like the decision on asylum will be at 1300 GMT.

Link
 
2012-08-15 10:08:31 PM  
Let me say this:
As much as I disagree with some of what Assange has done, and some of the leaks on wikileaks, leaks about some of the abuses the US government has committed are necessary to be known.
I wish there were websites devoted to leaks that did not involve threats to national security (such as revealing locations of secret agents), and instead was committed only to exposing human rights abuses.
 
2012-08-15 10:08:57 PM  
If the UK wants to expose its embassy personnel worldwide to the same sort of action, they're welcome to set a precedent.
 
2012-08-15 10:09:38 PM  

Rockstone: Let me say this:
As much as I disagree with some of what Assange has done, and some of the leaks on wikileaks, leaks about some of the abuses the US government has committed are necessary to be known.
I wish there were websites devoted to leaks that did not involve threats to national security (such as revealing locations of secret agents), and instead was committed only to exposing human rights abuses.


What would you think if something was both?
 
2012-08-15 10:09:41 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Phil Moskowitz: If an embassy isn't respected as foreign territory then why would you allow a foreign incursion onto "your" land? That's an act of war.

Ecuador is free to bring the hurt.

/Bwah-hahahahahaha.


Because it's only Ecuador watching. And it's ok to fark over the weak.
 
2012-08-15 10:11:48 PM  
It's good to know that the UK is still our biatch.
 
2012-08-15 10:12:57 PM  

One Bad Apple: Captain Steroid: Goddammit, England! Have a spy poison his food or something, but do NOT storm a foreign embassy! That's how wars get started!
>:-(

[www.historyguy.com image 550x413]


Depends on who is in charge


www.beirut-memorial.org

I know what you mean.
 
2012-08-15 10:13:10 PM  

BafflerMeal: It's running now:

Link


Looks to me like the cops are there to make sure Assange doesn't go anywhere tonight. They probably are anticipating that his bid for asylum will be turned down.
 
2012-08-15 10:13:46 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: It's about time we took sex offenses seriously. I for one am glad to see the UK and Sweden taking such a firm stance against sex offenders, particularly difficult to prosecute acquaintance rape. I look forward to future blockades of embassies, similar levels of police massive involvement and drawn out extradition across national borders in all rape cases reported in both countries from now on.

And it's equally refreshing to see a man accused of such a crime running and hiding and fighting being held accountable for it as though his very life depends up on it.

Assange's behavior seems a bit irrational, right?


Not when he knows this is all for political reasons. The US wants him because he made them look bad. God knows what they'll do to him if they actually manage to get their claws on him.
 
2012-08-15 10:13:51 PM  
Under the Vienna Convention, embassies are inviolable to search and seizure without the consent of the head of mission, but contrary to popular belief they remain the soverign territory of the host nation.

You might ask how Ecuador could get Assange out of the country - they could designate him as a diplomatic courier and then he himself would be inviolable.
 
2012-08-15 10:14:14 PM  
 
2012-08-15 10:14:29 PM  

sillydragon: It's good to know that the UK is still our biatch.


They're not your anything. The American people are just as much an enemy to the American government and corporate leaders are everyone else on the planet. You need to disabuse yourself of your notion of being on top.
 
2012-08-15 10:14:48 PM  

JAYoung: If the UK wants to expose its embassy personnel worldwide to the same sort of action, they're welcome to set a precedent.


That would only become plausible if the UK embassies started harboring third nationals for crimes committed in other countries.
But the UK isn't doing that, the Ecuadorans are.
I'd say they have little legal standing if they harbor a fugitive.
 
2012-08-15 10:17:03 PM  

RulerOfNone: Not when he knows this is all for political reasons. The US wants him because he made them look bad. God knows what they'll do to him if they actually manage to get their claws on him.


Indeed. Indeed. It's all in the game, all in the game.
Spin the wheel, take your chances.
 
2012-08-15 10:17:07 PM  

sillydragon: It's good to know that the UK is still our biatch.


Bingo. We want him, because he must be punished for making us look bad. We're using every tool at our disposal to get our grubby mitts on him. Yet, he's managed to actually use, well, the rule of law to ensure that we can't just have him killed out of hand - so we're now pressuring the UK to do our dirty work.

I hope this goes ugly.
 
2012-08-15 10:17:07 PM  

thisispete: Under the Vienna Convention, embassies are inviolable to search and seizure without the consent of the head of mission, but contrary to popular belief they remain the soverign territory of the host nation.

You might ask how Ecuador could get Assange out of the country - they could designate him as a diplomatic courier and then he himself would be inviolable.


I want to see this SO MUCH.

/Assange shouldn't have published any data that put lives at risk, but the rest? Yeah. He had the moral high ground. He might be a jackass personally, but at least in America we should applaud the idea of openness in our government.
 
2012-08-15 10:17:09 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: And it's equally refreshing to see a man accused of such a crime running and hiding and fighting being held accountable for it as though his very life depends up on it.

Assange's behavior seems a bit irrational, right?


Not at all actually.
Let's say I'm in a more-or-less mafia controlled city and I've been an outspoken opponent of said mafia. The mafia says they want to work out some unrelated disagreements over tea and cookies. Yeah, sounds legit, I'll just go ahead and walk right into that.
And noone's saying the dude doesn't have an ego. So combine natural common sense and self-preservation with a touch of "and fark you too" and you have the "extremes" he's gone to.
 
2012-08-15 10:17:41 PM  

LectertheChef: One Bad Apple: Captain Steroid: Goddammit, England! Have a spy poison his food or something, but do NOT storm a foreign embassy! That's how wars get started!
>:-(

[www.historyguy.com image 550x413]


Depends on who is in charge

[www.beirut-memorial.org image 400x527]

I know what you mean.


Hey moron, remember the embassy bombings of 98? Who was President at the time? Did we go to war
 
2012-08-15 10:19:05 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: And it's equally refreshing to see a man accused of such a crime running and hiding and fighting being held accountable for it as though his very life depends up on it he is above the law.


FTFY. If Assange had the courage of his convictions, he would've gone to Sweden once the extradition appeals were over.
 
2012-08-15 10:20:30 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: HotIgneous Intruder: And it's equally refreshing to see a man accused of such a crime running and hiding and fighting being held accountable for it as though his very life depends up on it he is above the law.

FTFY. If Assange had the courage of his convictions, he would've gone to Sweden once the extradition appeals were over.


With all of those black CIA sites, I doubt he would risk turning himself in to an ally of the US.

/Well, maybe France will take him
 
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