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(BBC)   UK to Ecuadoran embassy: "Either hand over Julian Assange or we'll go in there and get him ourselves." Ecuador: "Uhm, we are not a British colony." UK: "WHARRGARBL"   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 456
    More: Interesting, Julian Assange, Ecuadoran, Knightsbridge, foreign office, submarine communications cable, Ecuador, WikiLeaks  
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4965 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Aug 2012 at 8:56 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-15 08:00:08 PM
Someone needs to take this guy out. He is a threat to international security.
 
2012-08-15 08:10:09 PM
Goddammit, England! Have a spy poison his food or something, but do NOT storm a foreign embassy! That's how wars get started!
>:-(
 
2012-08-15 08:11:06 PM
Looks like they've been taking lessons in diplomacy from the United States.
 
2012-08-15 08:27:46 PM
freeversephotography.com
 
2012-08-15 08:28:23 PM
Ugh.
 
2012-08-15 08:29:28 PM

Captain Steroid: Goddammit, England! Have a spy poison his food or something, but do NOT storm a foreign embassy! That's how wars get started!
>:-(


www.historyguy.com


Depends on who is in charge
 
2012-08-15 08:30:18 PM
UK is full of talk

They wont risk the international punishments
 
2012-08-15 08:38:42 PM

FlyingLizardOfDoom: Someone needs to take this guy out. He is a threat to international security.


What exactly has he done to justify summary execution?
 
2012-08-15 08:46:46 PM
Argentina whistles nonchalantly...
 
2012-08-15 08:53:27 PM
Seriously, what the fark Brits? You're not Iran.
 
2012-08-15 09:01:27 PM

gilgigamesh: FlyingLizardOfDoom: Someone needs to take this guy out. He is a threat to international security.

What exactly has he done to justify summary execution?


Reasons.
 
2012-08-15 09:03:02 PM
Livestream in front of the Embassy

http://bambuser.com/v/2905136

(busted at the moment)

RT.com streaming

(they have frequent updates)
 
2012-08-15 09:03:04 PM
Wow, he really, really scares the power brokers that much, huh.
 
2012-08-15 09:03:48 PM
HE'S HIDING ON THE GALAPAGOS WITH THE TORTOISES, GET HIM!
 
2012-08-15 09:05:21 PM
The Brits sure do take alleged sexual assault mega-seriously...
 
2012-08-15 09:06:54 PM

iaazathot: Wow, he really, really scares the power brokers that much, huh.


That's how I'm looking at it.

But isn't he just a figure head for wikileaks, now? They are still active, aren't they?
 
2012-08-15 09:08:29 PM
Until he went to the Embassy, he hosted an interesting interview show while under house arrest:

Link

The one with the Ecuadorian president was interesting.
 
2012-08-15 09:08:40 PM
Yeah, good luck getting him out of the country, Ecuador.

How exactly are you going to get him out of the country without him stepping on UK soil?

The sole option is for him to drive out of the embassy in a diplomatic car, and drive onto a back loaded freight plane at a Ecuadorian private landing strip.

Ecuador has none of those things in the UK.

He'll be arrested during transit, because there's not way for him to reach Ecuador without leaving Ecuadorian sovereignty.
 
2012-08-15 09:09:54 PM

cman: They wont risk the international punishments


What international punishments?
The US from 2000-2008 (and the Obama administration's lack of action past that) has pretty much shown you can flaunt international law and do whatever the fark you want if you're the right people. I assumed the UK was somewhere near the top of that hierarchy.
 
2012-08-15 09:11:05 PM

Bungles: Yeah, good luck getting him out of the country, Ecuador.

How exactly are you going to get him out of the country without him stepping on UK soil?

The sole option is for him to drive out of the embassy in a diplomatic car, and drive onto a back loaded freight plane at a Ecuadorian private landing strip.

Ecuador has none of those things in the UK.

He'll be arrested during transit, because there's not way for him to reach Ecuador without leaving Ecuadorian sovereignty.


Ecuadorian military or diplomatic helicopter to a waiting ship off the coast.
 
2012-08-15 09:11:15 PM

Nadie_AZ: iaazathot: Wow, he really, really scares the power brokers that much, huh.

That's how I'm looking at it.

But isn't he just a figure head for wikileaks, now? They are still active, aren't they?


I'd find the dude more likable if he'd at least acknowledge that there's a shiatload of very powerful people invested in making him look bad and took steps not to look like a douche by getting laid from internet celebrity of all things.
 
2012-08-15 09:12:14 PM

m2313: has pretty much shown you can flaunt flout international law and do whatever the fark you want if you're the right people


/pet peeve
 
2012-08-15 09:13:38 PM
So the SAS pops in and takes Assange for turning over to the USA.

What will Ecuador do?
Declare indignation in a strongly worded letter?
 
2012-08-15 09:14:43 PM
Wow Britain is willing to risk and international incident bring a man to justice on shaky "non-violent rape" charges?
 
2012-08-15 09:15:23 PM
From the wikileaks twitter feed, multiple police vans have arrived at the embassy and all of the livestreams are being DOS'd.
 
2012-08-15 09:15:23 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: So the SAS pops in and takes Assange for turning over to the USA.

What will Ecuador do?
Declare indignation in a strongly worded letter?


Throw bananas at them.

/I know 3 things about Ecuador
 
2012-08-15 09:15:24 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Ecuadorian military or diplomatic helicopter to a waiting ship off the coast.


You think Ecuador has these kinds of assets? They might have them in the Pacific, but not sitting off the coast of England.
 
2012-08-15 09:15:50 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Bungles: Yeah, good luck getting him out of the country, Ecuador.

How exactly are you going to get him out of the country without him stepping on UK soil?

The sole option is for him to drive out of the embassy in a diplomatic car, and drive onto a back loaded freight plane at a Ecuadorian private landing strip.

Ecuador has none of those things in the UK.

He'll be arrested during transit, because there's not way for him to reach Ecuador without leaving Ecuadorian sovereignty.

Ecuadorian military or diplomatic helicopter to a waiting ship off the coast.



From where? They don't have a helipad, and they can't exactly hover a tactical military helicopter over central London without quite quickly becoming "the bad guys".

I also suspect that they don't have a ship with a helipad either (they're not exactly common, outside the major powers and Jame Bond films).
 
2012-08-15 09:17:20 PM
Just listening to everyone spout off ideas about diplomatic immunity, special forces commando raids, international laws and repercussions has finally convinced me that this is all definitely only about sexual misconduct in Sweden.

Right.
 
2012-08-15 09:17:52 PM
/The US and A! wants Assange because he's the foreign national who received Bradley Manning's classified documents.
 
2012-08-15 09:18:33 PM

BafflerMeal: From the wikileaks twitter feed, multiple police vans have arrived at the embassy and all of the livestreams are being DOS'd.



I don't think it's much to do with that at this point, more that Britain doesn't take too kindly to ignoring its rule of law and hiding in embassies, thumbing your nose for two months out the window.

Especially given he should, you know, have gone to the Australian embassy. Then the situation would be different.
 
2012-08-15 09:19:57 PM

Bungles: cameroncrazy1984: Bungles: Yeah, good luck getting him out of the country, Ecuador.

How exactly are you going to get him out of the country without him stepping on UK soil?

The sole option is for him to drive out of the embassy in a diplomatic car, and drive onto a back loaded freight plane at a Ecuadorian private landing strip.

Ecuador has none of those things in the UK.

He'll be arrested during transit, because there's not way for him to reach Ecuador without leaving Ecuadorian sovereignty.

Ecuadorian military or diplomatic helicopter to a waiting ship off the coast.


From where? They don't have a helipad, and they can't exactly hover a tactical military helicopter over central London without quite quickly becoming "the bad guys".

I also suspect that they don't have a ship with a helipad either (they're not exactly common, outside the major powers and Jame Bond films).


I don't think storming an embassy is a good idea here, but I can't see a way where this ends good for Assange. Only scenarios that don't embarrass the UK and ones that do.

Here's hoping that they ineptly embarrass themselves.
 
2012-08-15 09:20:27 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: /The US and A! wants Assange because he's the foreign national who received Bradley Manning's classified documents.


Oh who gives a crap about the Broncos playbook?

Oh, Bradley. Nevermind.
 
2012-08-15 09:20:44 PM

Car_Ramrod: HotIgneous Intruder: So the SAS pops in and takes Assange for turning over to the USA.

What will Ecuador do?
Declare indignation in a strongly worded letter?

Throw bananas at them.

/I know 3 things about Ecuador


Perhaps Ecuador would demand shrubberies.
Or herrings.
 
2012-08-15 09:22:25 PM

Esc7: I don't think storming an embassy is a good idea here, but I can't see a way where this ends good for Assange. Only scenarios that don't embarrass the UK and ones that do.

Here's hoping that they ineptly embarrass themselves.


images.wikia.com

The Ecuadorian Embassy is secretly a Mobile Oppression Palace!
 
2012-08-15 09:23:21 PM

Bungles: Especially given he should, you know, have gone to the Australian embassy. Then the situation would be different.


Yeah. He would be turned over to the US nearly instantly.
 
2012-08-15 09:27:44 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Bungles: Especially given he should, you know, have gone to the Australian embassy. Then the situation would be different.

Yeah. He would be turned over to the US nearly instantly.



No he wouldn't.

He'd have been turned over to the Swedish, after a prolonged extradition (just like happened in the UK)

Then possibly the US. Sweden's fault!
 
2012-08-15 09:28:38 PM

FlyingLizardOfDoom: Someone needs to take this guy out. He is a threat to international security.


And this is why the current batch of humans deserve a goddamn extinction level event to their shiatty society. farking programmable automata.
 
2012-08-15 09:29:28 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Bungles: Especially given he should, you know, have gone to the Australian embassy. Then the situation would be different.

Yeah. He would be turned over to the US nearly instantly.


Truth. The USA exerts a gravitational field over nearly all english speaking/ NATO countries.

Seriously it is looking like Assange is going to have live the rest of his days out in unfriendly banana republics or the bad boys club(totalitarian antagonist states), like they would ever take him in.

The guy is plain farked. more as a future message to anyone who dares republish American data on the internet.
 
2012-08-15 09:30:44 PM

CygnusDarius: gilgigamesh: FlyingLizardOfDoom: Someone needs to take this guy out. He is a threat to international security.

What exactly has he done to justify summary execution?

Reasons.


Lots of reasons
 
2012-08-15 09:30:44 PM

BafflerMeal: From the wikileaks twitter feed, multiple police vans have arrived at the embassy and all of the livestreams are being DOS'd.


Huh.
 
2012-08-15 09:31:09 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Bungles: Especially given he should, you know, have gone to the Australian embassy. Then the situation would be different.

Yeah. He would be turned over to the US nearly instantly.


Australia isn't his biggest fan. Ecuador was an easy choice. If he already interviewed their big dog, you know the topic came up, and was obviously well received.
 
2012-08-15 09:31:23 PM

Bungles: HotIgneous Intruder: Bungles: Especially given he should, you know, have gone to the Australian embassy. Then the situation would be different.

Yeah. He would be turned over to the US nearly instantly.


No he wouldn't.

He'd have been turned over to the Swedish, after a prolonged extradition (just like happened in the UK)

Then possibly the US. Sweden's fault!


oh right sweden. forgot about them. yeah they would get first crack. but after he's in custody there is no way his path doesn't end up in the US. Probably something like gitmo so they can preform "enhanced interrogation" like they are on manning.
 
2012-08-15 09:31:25 PM

Bungles: cameroncrazy1984: Bungles: Yeah, good luck getting him out of the country, Ecuador.

How exactly are you going to get him out of the country without him stepping on UK soil?

The sole option is for him to drive out of the embassy in a diplomatic car, and drive onto a back loaded freight plane at a Ecuadorian private landing strip.

Ecuador has none of those things in the UK.

He'll be arrested during transit, because there's not way for him to reach Ecuador without leaving Ecuadorian sovereignty.

Ecuadorian military or diplomatic helicopter to a waiting ship off the coast.


From where? They don't have a helipad, and they can't exactly hover a tactical military helicopter over central London without quite quickly becoming "the bad guys".

I also suspect that they don't have a ship with a helipad either (they're not exactly common, outside the major powers and Jame Bond films).


Here's one for about 1.5 million.

Link
 
2012-08-15 09:31:42 PM

Esc7: HotIgneous Intruder: Bungles: Especially given he should, you know, have gone to the Australian embassy. Then the situation would be different.

Yeah. He would be turned over to the US nearly instantly.

Truth.
The USA exerts a gravitational field over nearly all english speaking/ NATO countries.

Seriously it is looking like Assange is going to have live the rest of his days out in unfriendly banana republics or the bad boys club(totalitarian antagonist states), like they would ever take him in.

The guy is plain farked. more as a future message to anyone who dares republish American data on the internet.



Then why does the UK, the most Englishy of all English-speaking countries, have no intention or plans to hand him over to the US?
 
2012-08-15 09:31:51 PM

Esc7: HotIgneous Intruder: Bungles: Especially given he should, you know, have gone to the Australian embassy. Then the situation would be different.

Yeah. He would be turned over to the US nearly instantly.

Truth. The USA exerts a gravitational field over nearly all english speaking/ NATO countries.

Seriously it is looking like Assange is going to have live the rest of his days out in unfriendly banana republics or the bad boys club(totalitarian antagonist states), like they would ever take him in.

The guy is plain farked. more as a future message to anyone who dares republish American data on the internet.



I imagine a Aung San Suu Kyi future for him.

RULE OF LAW! RULE OF LAW! RULE OF LAW!

Oh wait...

USA! USA! USA!
 
2012-08-15 09:33:25 PM

machodonkeywrestler: Bungles: cameroncrazy1984: Bungles: Yeah, good luck getting him out of the country, Ecuador.

How exactly are you going to get him out of the country without him stepping on UK soil?

The sole option is for him to drive out of the embassy in a diplomatic car, and drive onto a back loaded freight plane at a Ecuadorian private landing strip.

Ecuador has none of those things in the UK.

He'll be arrested during transit, because there's not way for him to reach Ecuador without leaving Ecuadorian sovereignty.

Ecuadorian military or diplomatic helicopter to a waiting ship off the coast.


From where? They don't have a helipad, and they can't exactly hover a tactical military helicopter over central London without quite quickly becoming "the bad guys".

I also suspect that they don't have a ship with a helipad either (they're not exactly common, outside the major powers and Jame Bond films).

Here's one for about 1.5 million.

Link



Well that's lovely. Now does Ecuador have one? Or are you suggesting they go buy one?
 
2012-08-15 09:34:50 PM

BafflerMeal: Esc7: HotIgneous Intruder: Bungles: Especially given he should, you know, have gone to the Australian embassy. Then the situation would be different.

Yeah. He would be turned over to the US nearly instantly.

Truth. The USA exerts a gravitational field over nearly all english speaking/ NATO countries.

Seriously it is looking like Assange is going to have live the rest of his days out in unfriendly banana republics or the bad boys club(totalitarian antagonist states), like they would ever take him in.

The guy is plain farked. more as a future message to anyone who dares republish American data on the internet.


I imagine a Aung San Suu Kyi future for him.

RULE OF LAW! RULE OF LAW! RULE OF LAW!

Oh wait...

USA! USA! USA!




Aung San Suu Kyi's story might resonate less if she'd masturbated over drunk Swedish groupies.


./wait...
 
2012-08-15 09:35:20 PM

Bungles: Then why does the UK, the most Englishy of all English-speaking countries, have no intention or plans to hand him over to the US?


Because the US hasn't filed charges. Can't extradite without charges.
 
2012-08-15 09:36:20 PM

cman: UK is full of talk

They wont risk the international punishments


Where do you think the US inherited its attitude from? Of course they will and the economy being what it is, people may threaten punishment but they wont' follow through.
 
2012-08-15 09:36:34 PM

machodonkeywrestler: Bungles: cameroncrazy1984: Bungles: Yeah, good luck getting him out of the country, Ecuador.

How exactly are you going to get him out of the country without him stepping on UK soil?

The sole option is for him to drive out of the embassy in a diplomatic car, and drive onto a back loaded freight plane at a Ecuadorian private landing strip.

Ecuador has none of those things in the UK.

He'll be arrested during transit, because there's not way for him to reach Ecuador without leaving Ecuadorian sovereignty.

Ecuadorian military or diplomatic helicopter to a waiting ship off the coast.


From where? They don't have a helipad, and they can't exactly hover a tactical military helicopter over central London without quite quickly becoming "the bad guys".

I also suspect that they don't have a ship with a helipad either (they're not exactly common, outside the major powers and Jame Bond films).

Here's one for about 1.5 million.

Link


Ecuador already ships drugs via diplomatic pouch. Just put him in a big crate and try to send it out of hte country.
 
2012-08-15 09:37:29 PM

Bungles: Esc7: HotIgneous Intruder: Bungles: Especially given he should, you know, have gone to the Australian embassy. Then the situation would be different.

Yeah. He would be turned over to the US nearly instantly.

Truth. The USA exerts a gravitational field over nearly all english speaking/ NATO countries.

Seriously it is looking like Assange is going to have live the rest of his days out in unfriendly banana republics or the bad boys club(totalitarian antagonist states), like they would ever take him in.

The guy is plain farked. more as a future message to anyone who dares republish American data on the internet.


Then why does the UK, the most Englishy of all English-speaking countries, have no intention or plans to hand him over to the US?


Maybe the check hasn't cleared?
 
2012-08-15 09:41:18 PM
The logic on this entire thing relies on the presumption that Sweden would just roll over and hand him over if asked.

Given that it's far, far easier for the US to extradite him from the UK due to a simplified Anglo-US process... if the US wanted him, they'd request him from British custody (which he's been in numerous times).

It doesn't make any sense to presume that Sweden is the easier route.
 
2012-08-15 09:41:45 PM
I recall reading an article about the swedish charges and how the laws over such things are very unusual. Although I don't remember exactly how it went, the basic gist of it was no lawyer outside of sweden would be able to make sense out of it as the charges went back and forth and how even though the women said the sex was consensual it was still rape.
 
2012-08-15 09:43:33 PM

Bungles: machodonkeywrestler: Bungles: cameroncrazy1984: Bungles: Yeah, good luck getting him out of the country, Ecuador.

How exactly are you going to get him out of the country without him stepping on UK soil?

The sole option is for him to drive out of the embassy in a diplomatic car, and drive onto a back loaded freight plane at a Ecuadorian private landing strip.

Ecuador has none of those things in the UK.

He'll be arrested during transit, because there's not way for him to reach Ecuador without leaving Ecuadorian sovereignty.

Ecuadorian military or diplomatic helicopter to a waiting ship off the coast.


From where? They don't have a helipad, and they can't exactly hover a tactical military helicopter over central London without quite quickly becoming "the bad guys".

I also suspect that they don't have a ship with a helipad either (they're not exactly common, outside the major powers and Jame Bond films).

Here's one for about 1.5 million.

Link


Well that's lovely. Now does Ecuador have one? Or are you suggesting they go buy one?


I would imagine quite a few of Ecuador's "private" citizens has one they would be happy to lend the government for looking the other way at an undisclosed time in the future.
 
2012-08-15 09:44:29 PM

brianbankerus: Because the US hasn't filed charges. Can't extradite without charges.


If the US files espionage charges, for which death is a possible sentence, I don't think any country will give him up. I don't think the UK will allow extradition in death penalty cases. Once the UK gets him, US can file charges for lesser crimes, then add the espionage charge later. Or the US might just let the Swedes have their way with him if there's a possibility of prison time. Or maybe not any of this. Anything could happen.
Assange certainly is going to extremes to stay out of the hands of US allies.
 
2012-08-15 09:45:50 PM
From twitter

Tweeters currently outside of the Ecuadorian Embassy in London:

@odotm
@trh_humunculus
@alburyj #Assange h/t
@DharmaPunkx

Retweeted by WikiLeaks
 
2012-08-15 09:47:40 PM
Anonymous @YourAnonNews

BREAKING: Unconfirmed reports from one of our livestreamers of raid currently in progress on Ecuadaor Embassy in London. #OpProtectAssange
 
2012-08-15 09:47:41 PM

Bungles: The logic on this entire thing relies on the presumption that Sweden would just roll over and hand him over if asked.

Given that it's far, far easier for the US to extradite him from the UK due to a simplified Anglo-US process... if the US wanted him, they'd request him from British custody (which he's been in numerous times).

It doesn't make any sense to presume that Sweden is the easier route.


It's not just turning him over. It's the charges and the possible outcomes that matter.
If death penalty is possible, UK won't extradite, I think. (Don't know this for sure. Does anyone?)
 
2012-08-15 09:47:43 PM
Pic of MET police outside embassy.

Whether they went in or not is to be determined...
 
2012-08-15 09:51:29 PM

Bungles: Yeah, good luck getting him out of the country, Ecuador.

How exactly are you going to get him out of the country without him stepping on UK soil?


Put him in a diplomatic pouch. Two if necessary.
 
2012-08-15 09:53:22 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Looks like they've been taking lessons in diplomacy from the United States.


Oh come on dude. Is your world history knowledge so poor that you actually think the UK learned this from the US?

England holds the all time gold medal in imperial international law busting. This is just going back to the old (pre-1960s) playbook for international relations.
 
2012-08-15 09:53:41 PM
According to here, "Police have entered the building from another entrance in a side lane."
 
2012-08-15 09:57:00 PM

ArcadianRefugee: According to here, "Police have entered the building from another entrance in a side lane."


Wow, welp, time to bomb some UK embassies I guess.
 
2012-08-15 09:57:36 PM

ArcadianRefugee: According to here, "Police have entered the building from another entrance in a side lane."


The "building housing the embassy", not the actual embassy.
 
2012-08-15 09:57:44 PM

ArcadianRefugee: According to here, "Police have entered the building from another entrance in a side lane."


FTA: One person stationed outside the embassy, identifying himself as a "citizen journalist" with the twitter account https://twitter.com/alburyj was streaming the activity, but the feed has since stopped.

Well I guess somebody showed him how free the net is.
 
2012-08-15 09:58:00 PM
"So Mister Assange, we meet AGAIN!"
"Curses, Javert! You'll never take me alive!"
 
2012-08-15 09:58:50 PM

Esc7: oh right sweden. forgot about them. yeah they would get first crack. but after he's in custody there is no way his path doesn't end up in the US. Probably something like gitmo so they can preform "enhanced interrogation" like they are on manning.


Are we still doing such horrors to human beings?
I wish there was a way I could stop such abuse
 
2012-08-15 09:59:08 PM

Phil Moskowitz: ArcadianRefugee: According to here, "Police have entered the building from another entrance in a side lane."

Wow, welp, time to bomb some UK embassies I guess.


Why?
 
2012-08-15 09:59:08 PM

Bungles: I also suspect that they don't have a ship with a helipad either (they're not exactly common, outside the major powers and Jame Bond films).


I don't know if he still does, but Craig McCaw (McCaw Cellular/AT&T Wireless) used to have one.
 
2012-08-15 09:59:53 PM

BafflerMeal: DOS


A DoSS is possible, but I actually think that its more of a Farked link situation. Too many users and not enough resources.
 
2012-08-15 10:00:02 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Bungles: The logic on this entire thing relies on the presumption that Sweden would just roll over and hand him over if asked.

Given that it's far, far easier for the US to extradite him from the UK due to a simplified Anglo-US process... if the US wanted him, they'd request him from British custody (which he's been in numerous times).

It doesn't make any sense to presume that Sweden is the easier route.

It's not just turning him over. It's the charges and the possible outcomes that matter.
If death penalty is possible, UK won't extradite, I think. (Don't know this for sure. Does anyone?)


Death penalty wouldn't be, considering he didn't commit treason on US soil.

(any penalty is retarded though)
 
2012-08-15 10:00:32 PM

Triumph: ArcadianRefugee: According to here, "Police have entered the building from another entrance in a side lane."

FTA: One person stationed outside the embassy, identifying himself as a "citizen journalist" with the twitter account https://twitter.com/alburyj was streaming the activity, but the feed has since stopped.

Well I guess somebody showed him how free the net is.


It's running now:

Link

Also rt.com continues to follow it frequently on air:

Link
 
2012-08-15 10:01:39 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Phil Moskowitz: ArcadianRefugee: According to here, "Police have entered the building from another entrance in a side lane."

Wow, welp, time to bomb some UK embassies I guess.

Why?


If an embassy isn't respected as foreign territory then why would you allow a foreign incursion onto "your" land? That's an act of war.
 
2012-08-15 10:01:53 PM

Rockstone: HotIgneous Intruder: Bungles: The logic on this entire thing relies on the presumption that Sweden would just roll over and hand him over if asked.

Given that it's far, far easier for the US to extradite him from the UK due to a simplified Anglo-US process... if the US wanted him, they'd request him from British custody (which he's been in numerous times).

It doesn't make any sense to presume that Sweden is the easier route.

It's not just turning him over. It's the charges and the possible outcomes that matter.
If death penalty is possible, UK won't extradite, I think. (Don't know this for sure. Does anyone?)

Death penalty wouldn't be, considering he didn't commit treason on US soil.

(any penalty is retarded though)



Of course not being a US citizen and his actions not being on US soil, he cannot actually commit treason...
 
2012-08-15 10:03:30 PM

BafflerMeal: Of course not being a US citizen and his actions not being on US soil, he cannot actually commit treason...


He can be charged with espionage.
 
2012-08-15 10:03:33 PM

Rockstone: Death penalty wouldn't be, considering he didn't commit treason on US soil.


Espionage is not always equal to treason. IIRC no one who spied for the USSR was ever charged with treason because we were not in a shooting war with the Soviet Union.


Also, he could never be charged with treason because he is not an American citizen.
 
2012-08-15 10:04:06 PM
It's about time we took sex offenses seriously. I for one am glad to see the UK and Sweden taking such a firm stance against sex offenders, particularly difficult to prosecute acquaintance rape. I look forward to future blockades of embassies, similar levels of police massive involvement and drawn out extradition across national borders in all rape cases reported in both countries from now on.
 
2012-08-15 10:04:41 PM

Phil Moskowitz: If an embassy isn't respected as foreign territory then why would you allow a foreign incursion onto "your" land? That's an act of war.


Ecuador is free to bring the hurt.

/Bwah-hahahahahaha.
 
2012-08-15 10:06:50 PM

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: It's about time we took sex offenses seriously. I for one am glad to see the UK and Sweden taking such a firm stance against sex offenders, particularly difficult to prosecute acquaintance rape. I look forward to future blockades of embassies, similar levels of police massive involvement and drawn out extradition across national borders in all rape cases reported in both countries from now on.


And it's equally refreshing to see a man accused of such a crime running and hiding and fighting being held accountable for it as though his very life depends up on it.

Assange's behavior seems a bit irrational, right?
 
2012-08-15 10:07:59 PM
Wikileaks twitter feed is keeping up to date. Looks like the decision on asylum will be at 1300 GMT.

Link
 
2012-08-15 10:08:31 PM
Let me say this:
As much as I disagree with some of what Assange has done, and some of the leaks on wikileaks, leaks about some of the abuses the US government has committed are necessary to be known.
I wish there were websites devoted to leaks that did not involve threats to national security (such as revealing locations of secret agents), and instead was committed only to exposing human rights abuses.
 
2012-08-15 10:08:57 PM
If the UK wants to expose its embassy personnel worldwide to the same sort of action, they're welcome to set a precedent.
 
2012-08-15 10:09:38 PM

Rockstone: Let me say this:
As much as I disagree with some of what Assange has done, and some of the leaks on wikileaks, leaks about some of the abuses the US government has committed are necessary to be known.
I wish there were websites devoted to leaks that did not involve threats to national security (such as revealing locations of secret agents), and instead was committed only to exposing human rights abuses.


What would you think if something was both?
 
2012-08-15 10:09:41 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Phil Moskowitz: If an embassy isn't respected as foreign territory then why would you allow a foreign incursion onto "your" land? That's an act of war.

Ecuador is free to bring the hurt.

/Bwah-hahahahahaha.


Because it's only Ecuador watching. And it's ok to fark over the weak.
 
2012-08-15 10:10:26 PM
Didn't this happen in Iran once?
 
2012-08-15 10:11:48 PM
It's good to know that the UK is still our biatch.
 
2012-08-15 10:12:57 PM

One Bad Apple: Captain Steroid: Goddammit, England! Have a spy poison his food or something, but do NOT storm a foreign embassy! That's how wars get started!
>:-(

[www.historyguy.com image 550x413]


Depends on who is in charge


www.beirut-memorial.org

I know what you mean.
 
2012-08-15 10:13:10 PM

BafflerMeal: It's running now:

Link


Looks to me like the cops are there to make sure Assange doesn't go anywhere tonight. They probably are anticipating that his bid for asylum will be turned down.
 
2012-08-15 10:13:46 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: It's about time we took sex offenses seriously. I for one am glad to see the UK and Sweden taking such a firm stance against sex offenders, particularly difficult to prosecute acquaintance rape. I look forward to future blockades of embassies, similar levels of police massive involvement and drawn out extradition across national borders in all rape cases reported in both countries from now on.

And it's equally refreshing to see a man accused of such a crime running and hiding and fighting being held accountable for it as though his very life depends up on it.

Assange's behavior seems a bit irrational, right?


Not when he knows this is all for political reasons. The US wants him because he made them look bad. God knows what they'll do to him if they actually manage to get their claws on him.
 
2012-08-15 10:13:51 PM
Under the Vienna Convention, embassies are inviolable to search and seizure without the consent of the head of mission, but contrary to popular belief they remain the soverign territory of the host nation.

You might ask how Ecuador could get Assange out of the country - they could designate him as a diplomatic courier and then he himself would be inviolable.
 
2012-08-15 10:14:14 PM
 
2012-08-15 10:14:29 PM

sillydragon: It's good to know that the UK is still our biatch.


They're not your anything. The American people are just as much an enemy to the American government and corporate leaders are everyone else on the planet. You need to disabuse yourself of your notion of being on top.
 
2012-08-15 10:14:48 PM

JAYoung: If the UK wants to expose its embassy personnel worldwide to the same sort of action, they're welcome to set a precedent.


That would only become plausible if the UK embassies started harboring third nationals for crimes committed in other countries.
But the UK isn't doing that, the Ecuadorans are.
I'd say they have little legal standing if they harbor a fugitive.
 
2012-08-15 10:17:03 PM

RulerOfNone: Not when he knows this is all for political reasons. The US wants him because he made them look bad. God knows what they'll do to him if they actually manage to get their claws on him.


Indeed. Indeed. It's all in the game, all in the game.
Spin the wheel, take your chances.
 
2012-08-15 10:17:07 PM

sillydragon: It's good to know that the UK is still our biatch.


Bingo. We want him, because he must be punished for making us look bad. We're using every tool at our disposal to get our grubby mitts on him. Yet, he's managed to actually use, well, the rule of law to ensure that we can't just have him killed out of hand - so we're now pressuring the UK to do our dirty work.

I hope this goes ugly.
 
2012-08-15 10:17:07 PM

thisispete: Under the Vienna Convention, embassies are inviolable to search and seizure without the consent of the head of mission, but contrary to popular belief they remain the soverign territory of the host nation.

You might ask how Ecuador could get Assange out of the country - they could designate him as a diplomatic courier and then he himself would be inviolable.


I want to see this SO MUCH.

/Assange shouldn't have published any data that put lives at risk, but the rest? Yeah. He had the moral high ground. He might be a jackass personally, but at least in America we should applaud the idea of openness in our government.
 
2012-08-15 10:17:09 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: And it's equally refreshing to see a man accused of such a crime running and hiding and fighting being held accountable for it as though his very life depends up on it.

Assange's behavior seems a bit irrational, right?


Not at all actually.
Let's say I'm in a more-or-less mafia controlled city and I've been an outspoken opponent of said mafia. The mafia says they want to work out some unrelated disagreements over tea and cookies. Yeah, sounds legit, I'll just go ahead and walk right into that.
And noone's saying the dude doesn't have an ego. So combine natural common sense and self-preservation with a touch of "and fark you too" and you have the "extremes" he's gone to.
 
2012-08-15 10:17:41 PM

LectertheChef: One Bad Apple: Captain Steroid: Goddammit, England! Have a spy poison his food or something, but do NOT storm a foreign embassy! That's how wars get started!
>:-(

[www.historyguy.com image 550x413]


Depends on who is in charge

[www.beirut-memorial.org image 400x527]

I know what you mean.


Hey moron, remember the embassy bombings of 98? Who was President at the time? Did we go to war
 
2012-08-15 10:19:05 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: And it's equally refreshing to see a man accused of such a crime running and hiding and fighting being held accountable for it as though his very life depends up on it he is above the law.


FTFY. If Assange had the courage of his convictions, he would've gone to Sweden once the extradition appeals were over.
 
2012-08-15 10:20:30 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: HotIgneous Intruder: And it's equally refreshing to see a man accused of such a crime running and hiding and fighting being held accountable for it as though his very life depends up on it he is above the law.

FTFY. If Assange had the courage of his convictions, he would've gone to Sweden once the extradition appeals were over.


With all of those black CIA sites, I doubt he would risk turning himself in to an ally of the US.

/Well, maybe France will take him
 
2012-08-15 10:22:03 PM

nmemkha: Wow Britain is willing to risk and international incident bring a man to justice on shaky "non-violent rape" charges?


Yeah, but on the other side, there's a guy who's willing to head to Equador to avoid charges in Sweden. It's not like he's being extradited to Saudi Arabia and it's not like he'd be any less safe in Sweden than he is in England.
 
2012-08-15 10:22:45 PM
#occupynewsnetwork

"Can you deny that you're here to arrest him?"

Seriously? You'll find out when the guy says, "You're under arrest." Until then, shaddup.

Sometimes, I really want to see protestors get smacked with a baton, just for being stupid. Even when they are somewhere for reasons I agree with, they just say really, really stupid things.

/my Fark 'quote' button is gone completely :(
 
2012-08-15 10:23:38 PM

Phil Moskowitz: sillydragon: It's good to know that the UK is still our biatch.

They're not your anything. The American people are just as much an enemy to the American government and corporate leaders are everyone else on the planet. You need to disabuse yourself of your notion of being on top.


That was a collective 'our', as in the country. They most certainly are the biatch of our government. Or did you think this is the usual UK reaction to a dubious rape case?

If it makes you feel better, I'd rather they weren't. And think it's a pretty good thing Assange did, though he's probably going to suffer a lot for it.
 
2012-08-15 10:23:59 PM

Rockstone: As much as I disagree with some of what Assange has done, and some of the leaks on wikileaks, leaks about some of the abuses the US government has committed are necessary to be known.


Truth. WikiLeaks does the world an enormous service.
 
2012-08-15 10:26:10 PM
Well, the officer certainly was cordial, anyway.
 
2012-08-15 10:26:11 PM
I really feel bad for Assange, this is obviously a which hunt on a guy that only did what any good journalist should be doing...if they all weren't shills to the system that is.
 
2012-08-15 10:26:50 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Rockstone: As much as I disagree with some of what Assange has done, and some of the leaks on wikileaks, leaks about some of the abuses the US government has committed are necessary to be known.

Truth. WikiLeaks does the world an enormous service.


Indeed. Knowledge is power.
 
2012-08-15 10:26:53 PM
Isn't that the Harrod's building they blew up in the first up of the new Doctor Who?
 
2012-08-15 10:27:12 PM

Mr. Eugenides: nmemkha: Wow Britain is willing to risk and international incident bring a man to justice on shaky "non-violent rape" charges?

Yeah, but on the other side, there's a guy who's willing to head to Equador to avoid charges in Sweden. It's not like he's being extradited to Saudi Arabia and it's not like he'd be any less safe in Sweden than he is in England.


He's theoretically more safe. It's much harder to go Sweden->US than UK->US, and neither country will extradite if there's the possibility of the death penalty.

He doesn't want to go to Sweden because he has wandering hands.
 
2012-08-15 10:27:46 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: It's about time we took sex offenses seriously. I for one am glad to see the UK and Sweden taking such a firm stance against sex offenders, particularly difficult to prosecute acquaintance rape. I look forward to future blockades of embassies, similar levels of police massive involvement and drawn out extradition across national borders in all rape cases reported in both countries from now on.

And it's equally refreshing to see a man accused of such a crime running and hiding and fighting being held accountable for it as though his very life depends up on it.


Why is that refreshing? People run and hide from crimes all the time, it's basically the go-to action for people wanted for crimes, particularly serious ones.
 
2012-08-15 10:28:26 PM

m2313: So combine natural common sense and self-preservation with a touch of "and fark you too" and you have the "extremes" he's gone to.


Well that's it. Assange's actions show that he really has no sense of self-preservation. Had he that, he would not have done what he did in the first place. That's his arrogance (we're dealing with a failed physics major here.) shining through. It's a classic case of over-weening pride. Assange, like Manning, is a product of a broken home, unsettled formative experiences, and brushes with authority, which fed his alienation. It wouldn't surprise me if he was one of the people who encouraged Manning to obtain and dump the documents.
 
2012-08-15 10:28:50 PM

sillydragon: Phil Moskowitz: sillydragon: It's good to know that the UK is still our biatch.

They're not your anything. The American people are just as much an enemy to the American government and corporate leaders are everyone else on the planet. You need to disabuse yourself of your notion of being on top.

That was a collective 'our', as in the country. They most certainly are the biatch of our government. Or did you think this is the usual UK reaction to a dubious rape case?

If it makes you feel better, I'd rather they weren't. And think it's a pretty good thing Assange did, though he's probably going to suffer a lot for it.


That is a sad statement. To have a friend ( and call them your biatch) because they are afraid of you and proud of it is being a bully.
 
2012-08-15 10:29:40 PM

Bungles: Esc7: HotIgneous Intruder: Bungles: Especially given he should, you know, have gone to the Australian embassy. Then the situation would be different.

Yeah. He would be turned over to the US nearly instantly.

Truth. The USA exerts a gravitational field over nearly all english speaking/ NATO countries.

Seriously it is looking like Assange is going to have live the rest of his days out in unfriendly banana republics or the bad boys club(totalitarian antagonist states), like they would ever take him in.

The guy is plain farked. more as a future message to anyone who dares republish American data on the internet.


Then why does the UK, the most Englishy of all English-speaking countries, have no intention or plans to hand him over to the US?


Because the US hasn't asked them to hand him over. Sweden has to face rape charges. An interesting thing about Sweden is that a man can be charged with rape for engaging the services of a prostitute. So those rape charges are probably dodgy.
 
2012-08-15 10:30:00 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: HotIgneous Intruder: And it's equally refreshing to see a man accused of such a crime running and hiding and fighting being held accountable for it as though his very life depends up on it he is above the law.

FTFY. If Assange had the courage of his convictions, he would've gone to Sweden once the extradition appeals were over.


Mr. Eugenides: Yeah, but on the other side, there's a guy who's willing to head to Equador to avoid charges in Sweden. It's not like he's being extradited to Saudi Arabia and it's not like he'd be any less safe in Sweden than he is in England.


He'd be disappeared as soon as he got out of the airplane in Stockholm and enhanced interrogated within 24 hours. I doubt the UK (and the US by proxy) would go through all this trouble to get a guy who may or may not be guilty of the sex crime equivalent of failing to come to a complete stop at a stop sign if they didn't have some sort of ulterior motive.
 
2012-08-15 10:30:10 PM

cman: With all of those black CIA sites, I doubt he would risk turning himself in to an ally of the US.


Or maybe he's just a misogynist weasel who thinks he's above the law. Seriously, the best the CIA could do was rape allegations in Sweden? Why not the UK itself? I mean, since when did Sweden beat out our permanent coalition buddy Britain as our go to place for extraditing threats to national security?

Speak truth to power to the disaffected, and you can puree a baby in front of thousands and your true believers will claim its a frame-up. Assange is no different there from George W. Bush or, hell, President Obama himself. And he seems like a smart enough guy to know how to use that to his advantage too.
 
2012-08-15 10:30:40 PM

pippi longstocking: I really feel bad for Assange, this is obviously a which hunt on a guy that only did what any good journalist should be doing...if they all weren't shills to the system that is.


No he isn't. The "good journalist" is what The Guardian did with the cables (made sure no-one would die before they published anything, and spent weeks and weeks making sure they didn't). Just read the accounts of Assange being outraged that Wikileaks wasn't in charge. It's nothing to do with openness or transparency, it's entirely about Assange's ego.

He's a self-absorbed ass. And probably a rapist.
 
2012-08-15 10:31:00 PM

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: HotIgneous Intruder: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: It's about time we took sex offenses seriously. I for one am glad to see the UK and Sweden taking such a firm stance against sex offenders, particularly difficult to prosecute acquaintance rape. I look forward to future blockades of embassies, similar levels of police massive involvement and drawn out extradition across national borders in all rape cases reported in both countries from now on.

And it's equally refreshing to see a man accused of such a crime running and hiding and fighting being held accountable for it as though his very life depends up on it.


Why is that refreshing? People run and hide from crimes all the time, it's basically the go-to action for people wanted for crimes, particularly serious ones.


For a sex crime whose victim even says was consensual?
Your sarcasm detector is broken.
 
2012-08-15 10:32:44 PM

kg2095: Bungles: Esc7: HotIgneous Intruder: Bungles: Especially given he should, you know, have gone to the Australian embassy. Then the situation would be different.

Yeah. He would be turned over to the US nearly instantly.

Truth. The USA exerts a gravitational field over nearly all english speaking/ NATO countries.

Seriously it is looking like Assange is going to have live the rest of his days out in unfriendly banana republics or the bad boys club(totalitarian antagonist states), like they would ever take him in.

The guy is plain farked. more as a future message to anyone who dares republish American data on the internet.


Then why does the UK, the most Englishy of all English-speaking countries, have no intention or plans to hand him over to the US?

Because the US hasn't asked them to hand him over. Sweden has to face rape charges. An interesting thing about Sweden is that a man can be charged with rape for engaging the services of a prostitute. So those rape charges are probably dodgy.


/Threadjack

Good. Criminalize the johns. If a government is serious about ending prostitution, that's the way to do it.

/End threadjack
 
2012-08-15 10:33:02 PM

Bungles: Mr. Eugenides: nmemkha: Wow Britain is willing to risk and international incident bring a man to justice on shaky "non-violent rape" charges?

Yeah, but on the other side, there's a guy who's willing to head to Equador to avoid charges in Sweden. It's not like he's being extradited to Saudi Arabia and it's not like he'd be any less safe in Sweden than he is in England.

He's theoretically more safe. It's much harder to go Sweden->US than UK->US, and neither country will extradite if there's the possibility of the death penalty.

He doesn't want to go to Sweden because he has wandering hands.


Now now, he could just despise pickled herring.
 
2012-08-15 10:33:12 PM

brianbankerus: Bungles: Then why does the UK, the most Englishy of all English-speaking countries, have no intention or plans to hand him over to the US?

Because the US hasn't filed charges. Can't extradite without charges.


There is a sealed indictment for him. They are just waiting for the right time to present it.

The UK would face a backlash if they handed him over and Sweden less so. I've heard assange's lawyer give multiple interviews on why they fear Sweden.
 
2012-08-15 10:33:42 PM

kg2095: Bungles: Esc7: HotIgneous Intruder: Bungles: Especially given he should, you know, have gone to the Australian embassy. Then the situation would be different.

Yeah. He would be turned over to the US nearly instantly.

Truth. The USA exerts a gravitational field over nearly all english speaking/ NATO countries.

Seriously it is looking like Assange is going to have live the rest of his days out in unfriendly banana republics or the bad boys club(totalitarian antagonist states), like they would ever take him in.

The guy is plain farked. more as a future message to anyone who dares republish American data on the internet.


Then why does the UK, the most Englishy of all English-speaking countries, have no intention or plans to hand him over to the US?

Because the US hasn't asked them to hand him over. Sweden has to face rape charges. An interesting thing about Sweden is that a man can be charged with rape for engaging the services of a prostitute. So those rape charges are probably dodgy.



Well that's rather a leap of logic. Country A has a nuanced law that I don't understand, therefore Person B probably didn't rape anyone.
 
2012-08-15 10:34:56 PM

Bungles: pippi longstocking: I really feel bad for Assange, this is obviously a which hunt on a guy that only did what any good journalist should be doing...if they all weren't shills to the system that is.

No he isn't. The "good journalist" is what The Guardian did with the cables (made sure no-one would die before they published anything, and spent weeks and weeks making sure they didn't). Just read the accounts of Assange being outraged that Wikileaks wasn't in charge. It's nothing to do with openness or transparency, it's entirely about Assange's ego.

He's a self-absorbed ass. And probably a rapist.


I agree with self absorbed but "rapist" ? Look at the facts and laws between countries. Further look at when the charges were brought... Kind of suspect.
 
2012-08-15 10:35:17 PM

sleeps in trees: sillydragon: Phil Moskowitz: sillydragon: It's good to know that the UK is still our biatch.

They're not your anything. The American people are just as much an enemy to the American government and corporate leaders are everyone else on the planet. You need to disabuse yourself of your notion of being on top.

That was a collective 'our', as in the country. They most certainly are the biatch of our government. Or did you think this is the usual UK reaction to a dubious rape case?

If it makes you feel better, I'd rather they weren't. And think it's a pretty good thing Assange did, though he's probably going to suffer a lot for it.

That is a sad statement. To have a friend ( and call them your biatch) because they are afraid of you and proud of it is being a bully.


You should get your sarcasm detector fixed. That "good" was sarcasm. I'd rather the US never get it's hands on Assange. And I'd rather the UK response to the US in all of this be something like "Hahaha, you want us to do what? How about no? Do your own farking dirty work."
 
2012-08-15 10:37:44 PM

Magruda: There is a sealed indictment for him. They are just waiting for the right time to present it.


Its not news, its Stratfor.com.
 
2012-08-15 10:37:46 PM
I must say, Fark Libs are consistent. They defended both of their rapist allies without fail:

Penn State and Assange.
 
2012-08-15 10:38:11 PM

sillydragon: sleeps in trees: sillydragon: Phil Moskowitz: sillydragon: It's good to know that the UK is still our biatch.

They're not your anything. The American people are just as much an enemy to the American government and corporate leaders are everyone else on the planet. You need to disabuse yourself of your notion of being on top.

That was a collective 'our', as in the country. They most certainly are the biatch of our government. Or did you think this is the usual UK reaction to a dubious rape case?

If it makes you feel better, I'd rather they weren't. And think it's a pretty good thing Assange did, though he's probably going to suffer a lot for it.

That is a sad statement. To have a friend ( and call them your biatch) because they are afraid of you and proud of it is being a bully.

You should get your sarcasm detector fixed. That "good" was sarcasm. I'd rather the US never get it's hands on Assange. And I'd rather the UK response to the US in all of this be something like "Hahaha, you want us to do what? How about no? Do your own farking dirty work."


So sorry hun.
 
2012-08-15 10:38:44 PM

Mr. Eugenides: He doesn't want to go to Sweden because he has wandering hands.

Now now, he could just despise pickled herring.


It's probably because the women there are so farking hot that he knows he'll never be able to stop himself from raping more and more and more women. He's just protecting himself from himself.
 
2012-08-15 10:39:03 PM

beta_plus: I must say, Fark Libs are consistent. They defended both of their rapist allies without fail:

Penn State and Assange.


0-10

Go drink some code red, eat a hot pocket, refocus, and try again
 
2012-08-15 10:39:56 PM

beta_plus: I must say, Fark Libs are consistent. They defended both of their rapist allies without fail:

Penn State and Assange.


Liberals supported Penn State?
 
2012-08-15 10:39:56 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: So the SAS pops in and takes Assange for turning over to the USA.

What will Ecuador do?
Declare indignation in a strongly worded letter?


No, that is not going to happen. Remember the Iranian hostage crisis?

I suppose the Brits could create a trail of Beer kegs leading up to the Ecuadorean embassy, and the yobs would storm the place, and hold it until the beer ran out.
 
2012-08-15 10:41:10 PM

sleeps in trees: Bungles: pippi longstocking: I really feel bad for Assange, this is obviously a which hunt on a guy that only did what any good journalist should be doing...if they all weren't shills to the system that is.

No he isn't. The "good journalist" is what The Guardian did with the cables (made sure no-one would die before they published anything, and spent weeks and weeks making sure they didn't). Just read the accounts of Assange being outraged that Wikileaks wasn't in charge. It's nothing to do with openness or transparency, it's entirely about Assange's ego.

He's a self-absorbed ass. And probably a rapist.

I agree with self absorbed but "rapist" ? Look at the facts and laws between countries. Further look at when the charges were brought... Kind of suspect.



From one perspective the timing was suspect. From another, it was a moment he was riding an absolute crest of acclaim, was surrounded by groupies, and has a clear power-complex personality. Which is the exact sort of environment where this sort of thing could occur. What he's said consequently, as well as the "victim's" lawyer, makes it pretty clear this wasn't some James Bond set up. Something clearly occurred, "naturally". It's a tangle for a court to unravel.
 
2012-08-15 10:43:33 PM

beta_plus: I must say, Fark Libs are consistent. They defended both of their rapist allies without fail:

Penn State and Assange.


I'm terribly libby, but wish Assange was in Sweden and out of my country as soon as possible.

Wikileaks is great.

Assange is a tit.

Wikileaks will be stronger without him.
 
2012-08-15 10:44:11 PM

Bungles: He's theoretically more safe. It's much harder to go Sweden->US than UK->US, and neither country will extradite if there's the possibility of the death penalty.

He doesn't want to go to Sweden because he has wandering hands.


So when he hung around in Sweden for 2 months waiting for the prosecution to get its collective act together, was cleared to leave, only to be told after he had arrived in the UK that he was wanted back in Sweden for questioning and that they were initiating extradition proceedings, it doesn't ring any alarm bells?

This is a country (Sweden) that has admitted that in the past it has illegally handed over a suspect to US authorities.

This whole thing stinks. Badly. I certainly don't blame him for seeking refuge in the Ecuadorian Embassy.
 
2012-08-15 10:45:53 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Magruda: There is a sealed indictment for him. They are just waiting for the right time to present it.

Its not news, its Stratfor.com.


Check it out here.

snip: "Burton's information had the ring of truth. As Salon's Glenn Greenwald reported last May, a secret grand jury had begun taking testimony from Wikileaks supporters in a courtroom in Alexandria, Virginia. In December, during the pre-trial hearings of Bradley Manning, the Army private who allegedly gave WikiLeaks a huge trove of classified information in 2009, prosecutors repeatedly tried to convince the judge that Assange had conspired with Manning to release the data."

Assange is going down with Manning. Conspiracy to commit espionage, espionage, etc.
This is a death penalty offence and if the US admits that too soon, Assange will fight extradition on human rights grounds.
 
2012-08-15 10:48:08 PM

beta_plus: Penn State


F*ck off asshole.
 
2012-08-15 10:50:27 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Magruda: There is a sealed indictment for him. They are just waiting for the right time to present it.

Its not news, its Stratfor.com.

Check it out here.

snip: "Burton's information had the ring of truth. As Salon's Glenn Greenwald reported last May, a secret grand jury had begun taking testimony from Wikileaks supporters in a courtroom in Alexandria, Virginia. In December, during the pre-trial hearings of Bradley Manning, the Army private who allegedly gave WikiLeaks a huge trove of classified information in 2009, prosecutors repeatedly tried to convince the judge that Assange had conspired with Manning to release the data."

Assange is going down with Manning. Conspiracy to commit espionage, espionage, etc.
This is a death penalty offence and if the US admits that too soon, Assange will fight extradition on human rights grounds.


I'm just curiouse what happened to the people that outed your CIA agent? Can't remember her name (cute blonde husband in the embassy).
 
2012-08-15 10:50:52 PM

TeamEd: beta_plus: I must say, Fark Libs are consistent. They defended both of their rapist allies without fail:

Penn State and Assange.

Liberals supported Penn State?


Don't feed it, it can't possibly still be hungry.
 
2012-08-15 10:51:19 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Magruda: There is a sealed indictment for him. They are just waiting for the right time to present it.

Its not news, its Stratfor.com.

Check it out here.

snip: "Burton's information had the ring of truth. As Salon's Glenn Greenwald reported last May, a secret grand jury had begun taking testimony from Wikileaks supporters in a courtroom in Alexandria, Virginia. In December, during the pre-trial hearings of Bradley Manning, the Army private who allegedly gave WikiLeaks a huge trove of classified information in 2009, prosecutors repeatedly tried to convince the judge that Assange had conspired with Manning to release the data."

Assange is going down with Manning. Conspiracy to commit espionage, espionage, etc.
This is a death penalty offence and if the US admits that too soon, Assange will fight extradition on human rights grounds.



If any country in Europe handed him over and he was subsequently executed, that government would fall in the next election. The major European powers are pretty anti-death penalty, especially in such a public case.

In fact, the only place he *wouldn't* be safe would be a tin-pot corruptible minor state like....ummm...Ecuador.

Oh Julian, you haven't thought this through!


(I find it highly unlikely the US would execute an Australian citizen. The Australian public are already somewhat enraged by this case. It would would be goognight Julia Guillard).
 
2012-08-15 10:52:43 PM
One slight problem remains, there's no law against publishing US secrets with the exception of crypto keys, the positions of submarines and a couple other things. But none of what's covered was in the US part of wikileaks.
 
2012-08-15 10:53:44 PM
img818.imageshack.us
 
2012-08-15 10:54:11 PM

Bungles: Assange is a tit.


So you're fine with the precedent being set here because you don't like this guy, who you have probably never met?

Who in their right farking mind will work on projects like Wikileaks if Assange is extradited to the US and faces the death penalty? Particularly after trying to claim asylum? It will show that there is nowhere to hide.

And you expect us to believe you think Wikileaks is great?
 
2012-08-15 10:55:08 PM

Bungles: I also suspect that they don't have a ship with a helipad either (they're not exactly common, outside the major powers and Jame Bond films).


They're not that rare. There's a pretty robust second hand market for frigates and pretty much everybody with a navy (incl. Ecuador) has at least one or two and the associated helicopter.
 
2012-08-15 10:56:01 PM
Sex, Lies and Julian Assange from ABC Four Corners.
 
2012-08-15 10:56:11 PM
That was Valerie Plame. The guy they tried to prosecute was Dick Cheney's staffer, Scooter Libby.
He got convicted.

Then George W. Bush commuted his prison sentence.
 
2012-08-15 10:57:04 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Scooter Libby.


Different between Scooter and Julian is that Scooter broke a US law, Julian hasn't.
 
2012-08-15 10:58:13 PM

WhyteRaven74: HotIgneous Intruder: Scooter Libby.

Different between Scooter and Julian is that Scooter broke a US law, Julian hasn't.


Sleeps in Trees asked, I answered.
 
2012-08-15 10:59:17 PM
www.azurite.ca

/is anyone else missing their "bold/italic/insertURL" buttons?
 
2012-08-15 10:59:25 PM

Graeme Garden: Who in their right farking mind will work on projects like Wikileaks if Assange is extradited to the US and faces the death penalty? Particularly after trying to claim asylum? It will show that there is nowhere to hide.


This. The plutocrats are not happy about this talking out of school and exposure.
Examples will be made.
 
2012-08-15 10:59:30 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Sleeps in Trees asked, I answered.


I know, I was just putting it out there for anyone who might try to lump the two together.
 
2012-08-15 11:00:26 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: That was Valerie Plame. The guy they tried to prosecute was Dick Cheney's staffer, Scooter Libby.
He got convicted.

Then George W. Bush commuted his prison sentence.



Thanks, I still cannot figure why one is thought to be treasonous yet the others are given a free ride (in my eyes).
 
2012-08-15 11:00:58 PM
 
2012-08-15 11:01:10 PM
WhyteRaven74: HotIgneous Intruder: Scooter Libby.

Different between Scooter and Julian is that Scooter broke a US law, Julian hasn't.


Which would matter fark all if this was in the US.
 
2012-08-15 11:01:25 PM

WhyteRaven74: HotIgneous Intruder: Sleeps in Trees asked, I answered.

I know, I was just putting it out there for anyone who might try to lump the two together.


Yep. Different creatures.
 
2012-08-15 11:01:45 PM

Bungles: Well that's rather a leap of logic. Country A has a nuanced law that I don't understand, therefore Person B probably didn't rape anyone.


Could also be because the supposed victim and her friend recanted quite a while ago, the case itself being considered nothing by the prosecutorial section, then suddenly reopened.
 
2012-08-15 11:02:11 PM

ArcadianRefugee: /is anyone else missing their "bold/italic/insertURL" buttons?


Not me
 
2012-08-15 11:02:35 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: WhyteRaven74: HotIgneous Intruder: Scooter Libby.

Different between Scooter and Julian is that Scooter broke a US law, Julian hasn't.

Sleeps in Trees asked, I answered.


Thanks. It is still logically making little sense. You either fark up or not. Period.
 
2012-08-15 11:02:46 PM

Graeme Garden: Bungles: Assange is a tit.

So you're fine with the precedent being set here because you don't like this guy, who you have probably never met?

Who in their right farking mind will work on projects like Wikileaks if Assange is extradited to the US and faces the death penalty? Particularly after trying to claim asylum? It will show that there is nowhere to hide.

And you expect us to believe you think Wikileaks is great?



What precedent? No embassies have been violated.

You're begging the question that the rape charges are false.
 
2012-08-15 11:04:36 PM
WhyteRaven74: ArcadianRefugee: /is anyone else missing their "bold/italic/insertURL" buttons?

Not me


Well, crap. All I've got now are the new preview/addcomment buttons. Even my "quote this comment" button is gone.
 
2012-08-15 11:04:48 PM

Bungles: Well that's rather a leap of logic. Country A has a nuanced law that I don't understand, therefore Person B probably didn't rape anyone.


As I recall from before, there were a lot of irregularities with regards to the charges that were discussed when the first extradition proceedings ere going on. Such as initially being told he was clear and allowed to leave the country until someone not normally involved in such decisions got involved. I don't have the time or inclination to look up details right now, though.

Even ignoring that storming a foreign embassy is just a ridiculous proposition. Taking this case to that extreme is absolutely nuts and I am pretty sure that if not for the political situation around wikileaks nobody would consider the idea let alone officially warn an ambassador for someone under this type of charges.
 
2012-08-15 11:05:59 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: m2313: So combine natural common sense and self-preservation with a touch of "and fark you too" and you have the "extremes" he's gone to.

Well that's it. Assange's actions show that he really has no sense of self-preservation. Had he that, he would not have done what he did in the first place. That's his arrogance (we're dealing with a failed physics major here.) shining through. It's a classic case of over-weening pride. Assange, like Manning, is a product of a broken home, unsettled formative experiences, and brushes with authority, which fed his alienation. It wouldn't surprise me if he was one of the people who encouraged Manning to obtain and dump the documents.


What an odd statement. I mean your comments seem extremely odd.
 
2012-08-15 11:06:12 PM

tomcatadam: Bungles: Well that's rather a leap of logic. Country A has a nuanced law that I don't understand, therefore Person B probably didn't rape anyone.

Could also be because the supposed victim and her friend recanted quite a while ago, the case itself being considered nothing by the prosecutorial section, then suddenly reopened.



That is a matter for the Australians and the Swedes to debate. You're also giving a version of events narrated by WIkileaks which doesn't match the view held by the UK Courts.
 
2012-08-15 11:07:06 PM
I stopped knowing how to communicate with you people back in the 80s I think. It's like talking to people from Idiocracy.
 
2012-08-15 11:07:08 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Magruda: There is a sealed indictment for him. They are just waiting for the right time to present it.

Its not news, its Stratfor.com.

Check it out here.

snip: "Burton's information had the ring of truth. As Salon's Glenn Greenwald reported last May, a secret grand jury had begun taking testimony from Wikileaks supporters in a courtroom in Alexandria, Virginia. In December, during the pre-trial hearings of Bradley Manning, the Army private who allegedly gave WikiLeaks a huge trove of classified information in 2009, prosecutors repeatedly tried to convince the judge that Assange had conspired with Manning to release the data."

Assange is going down with Manning. Conspiracy to commit espionage, espionage, etc.
This is a death penalty offence and if the US admits that too soon, Assange will fight extradition on human rights grounds.


Michael Ratner CCR lawyer, "I've been really very upset and nervous for, really, since he lost the decision in the High Court of England on the 14th of June, because here's his situation. He's about to be extradited now to Sweden. Sweden does not have bail. Now, these are on allegations of sex charges-allegations, no charges-and they're to interrogate Julian Assange. But despite that, he would have been in prison in Sweden. At that point, our view is that there was a substantial chance that the U.S. would ask for his extradition to the United States. So here you have him walking the streets in London-sure, under bail conditions; going to a jail in Sweden, where he's in prison, almost an incommunicado prison; U.S. files extradition; he remains in prison; and the next thing that happens is whatever time it takes him to fight the extradition in Sweden, he's taken to the United States. There's no chance then to make political asylum application any longer. In addition, once he comes to the United States-we just hold up Bradley Manning as example one of what will happen to Julian Assange: a underground cell, essentially abuse, torture, no ability to communicate with anybody, facing certainly good chance of a life sentence, with a possibility, of course, of one of these charges being a death penalty charge."
 
2012-08-15 11:07:42 PM
Diplomatic mess aside, what about the possibility of a firefight? I mean, the US has armories and Marines in its embassies, right? What if Ecuador cracked open their armory and started shooting UK cops? Would the UK really be willing to risk that?
 
2012-08-15 11:07:45 PM

Bungles: I find it highly unlikely the US would execute an Australian citizen.


Execution? Nah. Torture, ship him off to some unremarkable third world hellhole, or just straight up getting him addicted to extremely rare, mentally and physically damaging and expensive drugs. Probably all of the above, really.
Killing someone is old fashioned and you don't get to see them writhe in misery for a few years as a stumbling wreck of what might have once been called human.
 
2012-08-15 11:07:45 PM

WhyteRaven74: One slight problem remains, there's no law against publishing US secrets with the exception of crypto keys, the positions of submarines and a couple other things. But none of what's covered was in the US part of wikileaks.


So long as Manning just gave him the documents he has that defence. Any prosecution that he was involved and encouraged Manning to steal the documents.
There is the argument that press protections do not apply to him.
 
2012-08-15 11:08:38 PM

Bungles: Graeme Garden: Bungles: Assange is a tit.

So you're fine with the precedent being set here because you don't like this guy, who you have probably never met?

Who in their right farking mind will work on projects like Wikileaks if Assange is extradited to the US and faces the death penalty? Particularly after trying to claim asylum? It will show that there is nowhere to hide.

And you expect us to believe you think Wikileaks is great?


What precedent? No embassies have been violated.

You're begging the question that the rape charges are false.


Hey no harm no foul but every country trumps up charges. The charges against the US to justify the raid by Iran were completely justified by their gov. and their supporters. Black and white only exists in our world. Still it's 50 Shades of Grey ( couldn't let that one slide... Forgive me)
 
2012-08-15 11:09:13 PM

ArcadianRefugee: Well, crap. All I've got now are the new preview/addcomment buttons. Even my "quote this comment" button is gone.


Restart your browser, if that doesn't fix things, send a Farkback.
 
2012-08-15 11:11:16 PM

dywed88: Bungles: Well that's rather a leap of logic. Country A has a nuanced law that I don't understand, therefore Person B probably didn't rape anyone.

As I recall from before, there were a lot of irregularities with regards to the charges that were discussed when the first extradition proceedings ere going on. Such as initially being told he was clear and allowed to leave the country until someone not normally involved in such decisions got involved. I don't have the time or inclination to look up details right now, though.

Even ignoring that storming a foreign embassy is just a ridiculous proposition. Taking this case to that extreme is absolutely nuts and I am pretty sure that if not for the political situation around wikileaks nobody would consider the idea let alone officially warn an ambassador for someone under this type of charges.



The problem with all those "irregularities" is they were all narrated by his defense team. I've heard quite a few parties interviewed who are totally unconnected with this case but familiar with Swedish law (there were several interviewed on Channel 4 News at the time) who were of the opinion that the "irregularities" were nothing of the sort, and injected into the narrative by his defense team to create the impression of some grand conspiracy, which was going to be their angle to try and avoid the rape charges reaching court at all by winning the court of public opinion, or at least creating sufficient doubt in the minds of the UK court to halt an extradition.
 
2012-08-15 11:12:21 PM

Bungles: You're also giving a version of events narrated by WIkileaks


BBC, The Guardian and various articles posted to/by AP, really.

That is a matter for the Australians and the Swedes to debate.
No, it's a matter to be considered by anyone who's thinking about whether Assange should be extradited or not.

NightSteel: Would the UK really be willing to risk that?


Ecuador instantly becomes international enemy number 1.
 
2012-08-15 11:13:58 PM

sleeps in trees: HotIgneous Intruder: That was Valerie Plame. The guy they tried to prosecute was Dick Cheney's staffer, Scooter Libby.
He got convicted.

Then George W. Bush commuted his prison sentence.


Thanks, I still cannot figure why one is thought to be treasonous yet the others are given a free ride (in my eyes).


Because one was part of the Bush presidency and the other is some non-rich non-powerful nobody who threatens the people in power by the very idea of a future where these leaks are mundane?

or was that more of a rhetorical question.
 
2012-08-15 11:14:27 PM

Magruda: Michael Ratner CCR lawyer, "I've been really very upset and nervous for, really, since he lost the decision in the High Court of England on the 14th of June, because here's his situation.


That's the missing logic in this situation.
Assange knows he's playing for his life, but that's not what any of the official entities are saying because they can't, since no charges have been brought. I'd say as soon as Assange is in pocket, his fate is sealed.

Life is not good for people who get called spies. If Assange groomed and encouraged Manning to do what he did, Assange is just as guilty if not more guilty in the government's eyes. Thus the sealed, probably classified secret or better, indictment. Gitmo kind of stuff going on here.
 
2012-08-15 11:15:34 PM

tomcatadam: Ecuador instantly becomes international enemy number 1.


The Axis of Bananas.
 
2012-08-15 11:15:34 PM

FlyingLizardOfDoom: Someone needs to take this guy out. He is a threat to international security.



RIP journalism
 
2012-08-15 11:17:24 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Thus the sealed, probably classified secret or better, indictment. Gitmo kind of stuff going on here.


Gitmo?
img src="http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTzdqbi65rtLKpGUdbOsaetjI 1SGTr8eNr6qRtPMqKv6dv8at6-s2sdUOnL">
 
2012-08-15 11:17:56 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: If Assange groomed and encouraged Manning to do what he did, Assange is just as guilty if not more guilty in the government's eyes.


Considering Mannings treatment i'd expect him to point the finger at anyone the guy who takes the pain away asks him too.
 
2012-08-15 11:19:03 PM

dywed88: So long as Manning just gave him the documents he has that defence. Any prosecution that he was involved and encouraged Manning to steal the documents.
There is the argument that press protections do not apply to him.


The complication there is that Manning was an active duty intelligence specialist. He's subject to military justice, not civil law. He's never going to walk free again.
 
2012-08-15 11:19:13 PM

Harry_Seldon: HotIgneous Intruder: Thus the sealed, probably classified secret or better, indictment. Gitmo kind of stuff going on here.

Gitmo?
img src="http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTzdqbi65rtLKpGUdbOsaetjI 1SGTr8eNr6qRtPMqKv6dv8at6-s2sdUOnL">


I hear that Bagram is the real scary place.
 
2012-08-15 11:19:52 PM

Bungles: kg2095: Bungles: Esc7: HotIgneous Intruder: Bungles: Especially given he should, you know, have gone to the Australian embassy. Then the situation would be different.

Yeah. He would be turned over to the US nearly instantly.

Truth. The USA exerts a gravitational field over nearly all english speaking/ NATO countries.

Seriously it is looking like Assange is going to have live the rest of his days out in unfriendly banana republics or the bad boys club(totalitarian antagonist states), like they would ever take him in.

The guy is plain farked. more as a future message to anyone who dares republish American data on the internet.


Then why does the UK, the most Englishy of all English-speaking countries, have no intention or plans to hand him over to the US?

Because the US hasn't asked them to hand him over. Sweden has to face rape charges. An interesting thing about Sweden is that a man can be charged with rape for engaging the services of a prostitute. So those rape charges are probably dodgy.


Well that's rather a leap of logic. Country A has a nuanced law that I don't understand, therefore Person B probably didn't rape anyone.


This all strikes me as rather Polanski-ish. Sure, he's probably a rapist, but DAMNIT, he stood up to THE MAN, so I guess it's not RAPE-RAPE.

/seriously, Wikileaks can get along fine without Glorious Leader
 
2012-08-15 11:19:55 PM

Harry_Seldon: HotIgneous Intruder: Thus the sealed, probably classified secret or better, indictment. Gitmo kind of stuff going on here.

Gitmo?
img src="http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTzdqbi65rtLKpGUdbOsaetjI 1SGTr8eNr6qRtPMqKv6dv8at6-s2sdUOnL">


Well, maybe not Gitmo. Leavenworth for life, for sure.
 
2012-08-15 11:22:36 PM

Esc7: sleeps in trees: HotIgneous Intruder: That was Valerie Plame. The guy they tried to prosecute was Dick Cheney's staffer, Scooter Libby.
He got convicted.

Then George W. Bush commuted his prison sentence.


Thanks, I still cannot figure why one is thought to be treasonous yet the others are given a free ride (in my eyes).

Because one was part of the Bush presidency and the other is some non-rich non-powerful nobody who threatens the people in power by the very idea of a future where these leaks are mundane?

or was that more of a rhetorical question.


Legally it makes no sense. His leaks really did jack. I know we have the OMG he leaked stuff but in the big picture it harmed no one. Ms Plame lost her status, job and now may never be able to travel abroad , let alone her husband and family are suspect.
 
2012-08-15 11:22:50 PM
I saw a nationally televised video of the girl he alledgedly raped accompanying him to a mutual friends barbeque on the afternoon after the alledged rape.

Maybe one raping wasn't enough for her..

On the same programme, in a diferent video, she confessed on camera the the Swedish prosecuter coerced her into making damning allegations against Assange.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/07/19/3549280.htm
 
2012-08-15 11:26:43 PM

Thunderbox: I saw a nationally televised video of the girl he alledgedly raped accompanying him to a mutual friends barbeque on the afternoon after the alledged rape.

Maybe one raping wasn't enough for her..

On the same programme, in a diferent video, she confessed on camera the the Swedish prosecuter coerced her into making damning allegations against Assange.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/07/19/3549280.htm



Both girls were caught bragging to friends about sleeping with him. And didn't report the rape until over a week after. But I'm sure it was just because they were so traumatized.
 
2012-08-15 11:33:05 PM

Rockstone: Let me say this:
As much as I disagree with some of what Assange has done, and some of the leaks on wikileaks, leaks about some of the abuses the US government has committed are necessary to be known.
I wish there were websites devoted to leaks that did not involve threats to national security (such as revealing locations of secret agents), and instead was committed only to exposing human rights abuses.


Most national security involves abusing some humans' rights.
 
2012-08-15 11:35:01 PM

sleeps in trees: Legally it makes no sense. His leaks really did jack. I know we have the OMG he leaked stuff but in the big picture it harmed no one. Ms Plame lost her status, job and now may never be able to travel abroad , let alone her husband and family are suspect.


Nobody outside of intelligence circles really knows, or will probably never know, if anyone got killed because of Libby's leaking. He exposed a CIA officer's identity. But he was part of the power elite in D.C., so he got off easy. If you or I did that, we'd be under a prison somewhere.
 
2012-08-15 11:35:15 PM

BafflerMeal: Rockstone: Let me say this:
As much as I disagree with some of what Assange has done, and some of the leaks on wikileaks, leaks about some of the abuses the US government has committed are necessary to be known.
I wish there were websites devoted to leaks that did not involve threats to national security (such as revealing locations of secret agents), and instead was committed only to exposing human rights abuses.

What would you think if something was both?


I'm not sure what I'd say. I can't think of very many incidences where exposing human rights abuses would also result in a huge national security crisis.
 
2012-08-15 11:35:22 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: dywed88: So long as Manning just gave him the documents he has that defence. Any prosecution that he was involved and encouraged Manning to steal the documents.
There is the argument that press protections do not apply to him.

The complication there is that Manning was an active duty intelligence specialist. He's subject to military justice, not civil law. He's never going to walk free again.


That is a different matter entirely. But any prosecution of Assange would not be so much for posting the documents, but for conspiracy with or as an accessory to Manning. That is much simpler with no First Amendment issues.
 
2012-08-15 11:37:30 PM
Plot thickens: Britain's Foreign Office issued a statement citing a 1987 British law it says permits the revocation of diplomatic status of a building if the foreign power occupying it "ceases to use land for the purposes of its mission or exclusively for the purposes of a consular post."

LINK.
 
2012-08-15 11:40:40 PM

dywed88: That is a different matter entirely. But any prosecution of Assange would not be so much for posting the documents, but for conspiracy with or as an accessory to Manning. That is much simpler with no First Amendment issues.


Correct, as I see it.
Remember also that Assange has no rights under American law, since he's not a citizen.
(That kind of gives me the chills, the idea that he might have the same legal status as, say, an al-qaeda fighter under anti-terrorism laws, such as Patriot Act.)
 
2012-08-15 11:42:57 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Remember also that Assange has no rights under American law, since he's not a citizen.



So a person visiting America commits a crime, the government can hold them forever? wut?
 
2012-08-15 11:43:57 PM

intelligent comment below: HotIgneous Intruder: Remember also that Assange has no rights under American law, since he's not a citizen.


So a person visiting America commits a crime, the government can hold them forever? wut?


Sadly, some people believe this.
 
2012-08-15 11:45:35 PM

intelligent comment below: HotIgneous Intruder: Remember also that Assange has no rights under American law, since he's not a citizen.


So a person visiting America commits a crime, the government can hold them forever? wut?


The usually will be tried by the state in which the crime committed, serve a sentence if one is adjudicated, then are deported. Barring diplomatic immunity, of course. If the crime is not serious, they would probably just get deported. The individual state would put them on trial, the Feds would deport them.
 
2012-08-15 11:46:06 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Plot thickens: Britain's Foreign Office issued a statement citing a 1987 British law it says permits the revocation of diplomatic status of a building if the foreign power occupying it "ceases to use land for the purposes of its mission or exclusively for the purposes of a consular post."

LINK.


The infamous "stop disagreeing with out judicial abuses" clause in international politics.

Fascinating.
 
2012-08-15 11:48:44 PM

BafflerMeal: intelligent comment below: HotIgneous Intruder: Remember also that Assange has no rights under American law, since he's not a citizen.


So a person visiting America commits a crime, the government can hold them forever? wut?

Sadly, some people believe this.


The thing is that this is tricky. Noncitizens who might be connected to terrorists or other enemies can be held indefinitely in places like Gitmo. In fact, that's the reason Gitmo is AT Gitmo: It's off American soil. Not only are they not citizens, but they are not being held in the United States.
It's a perfect legal limbo and certainly a violation of human rights.
 
2012-08-15 11:50:28 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Correct, as I see it.
Remember also that Assange has no rights under American law, since he's not a citizen.
(That kind of gives me the chills, the idea that he might have the same legal status as, say, an al-qaeda fighter under anti-terrorism laws, such as Patriot Act.)


No. Any foreigner is afforded full protections and rights under the constitution (unless something is specifically granted to citizens).

With the people held at Gitmo, they are being held under military law, that is what removes many of the protections as it does for soldiers. It is also part of the reason for insisting on the "enemy combatants" designation and for holding them on foreign soil. It would be more difficult to avoid legal protections if they were simply claimed to be "terror suspects" or some such and held on US soil.

Assange would certainly enter the civilian courts and be afforded all constitutional protections.
 
2012-08-15 11:51:12 PM

intelligent comment below: HotIgneous Intruder: Remember also that Assange has no rights under American law, since he's not a citizen.


So a person visiting America commits a crime, the government can hold them forever? wut?


Anyone dumb enough to believe that would be incapable of spelling half the words they used to write it out. You are being trolled.
 
2012-08-15 11:51:46 PM
They're really not happy about coming in 3rd in the Olympics.
 
2012-08-15 11:52:23 PM

dywed88: No. Any foreigner is afforded full protections and rights under the constitution (unless something is specifically granted to citizens).


Not if the Patriot Act precludes it. The PA rolled back all kinds of due process and civil rights provisions.
 
2012-08-15 11:52:36 PM
I think it would almost cause more damage to Assange to take him to Sweden, interview him and let him go, maybe with a slap on the wrist, and for the USA to ignore him and just say "Jeez, we're not sure what all the fuss was, we TOLD you we just wanted to talk to him!"

He'd totally come off as a paranoid whackjob that wasted hundreds of thousands of pounds of supporters' money and a hell of a lot of good will by jumping bail...

It would be lulzy jiu jitsu
 
2012-08-15 11:53:34 PM
Given that Assange is a foreign national who probably engaged in espionage in collusion with a member of the US military, I think he's going to get all the rights and freedoms he can stand, eventually.
 
2012-08-15 11:55:44 PM

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: intelligent comment below: HotIgneous Intruder: Remember also that Assange has no rights under American law, since he's not a citizen.


So a person visiting America commits a crime, the government can hold them forever? wut?

Anyone dumb enough to believe that would be incapable of spelling half the words they used to write it out. You are being trolled.


Yeah, but it was a gentle troll and stupid enough to get the solid, easy answer.
 
2012-08-15 11:57:48 PM

CygnusDarius: gilgigamesh: FlyingLizardOfDoom: Someone needs to take this guy out. He is a threat to international security.

What exactly has he done to justify summary execution?

Reasons.


Stuff.
 
2012-08-15 11:58:39 PM

Gyrfalcon: CygnusDarius: gilgigamesh: FlyingLizardOfDoom: Someone needs to take this guy out. He is a threat to international security.

What exactly has he done to justify summary execution?

Reasons.

Stuff.


Sex things.
 
2012-08-16 12:01:14 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: The usually will be tried by the state in which the crime committed, serve a sentence if one is adjudicated, then are deported. Barring diplomatic immunity, of course. If the crime is not serious, they would probably just get deported. The individual state would put them on trial, the Feds would deport them.



But you just said they had no rights under American law but now you're talking about a trial and sentence an all that BS? Just line them up against the wall and be done with it, since they have no protections or rights.

Idiot
 
2012-08-16 12:02:15 AM

DustBunny: I think it would almost cause more damage to Assange to take him to Sweden, interview him and let him go, maybe with a slap on the wrist, and for the USA to ignore him and just say "Jeez, we're not sure what all the fuss was, we TOLD you we just wanted to talk to him!"


The legal team has offered many a time to allow interviews by Swedish prosecutors of Assange there in the UK. Makes it hard for them to take that stance after the fact.
 
2012-08-16 12:02:20 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Yeah, but it was a gentle troll and stupid enough to get the solid, easy answer.



Ah yes, the "I was just trolling, honest!" defense

Works every time after you embarrass yourself with a complete lack of knowledge. Go back to the barracks, being the lowest rank means you have no free time
 
2012-08-16 12:05:46 AM

intelligent comment below: HotIgneous Intruder: Yeah, but it was a gentle troll and stupid enough to get the solid, easy answer.


Ah yes, the "I was just trolling, honest!" defense

Works every time after you embarrass yourself with a complete lack of knowledge. Go back to the barracks, being the lowest rank means you have no free time


More like I swatted it like a fly and moved on.
/Uniforms don't apply to me; I'm no authoritarian. Check your meds.
 
2012-08-16 12:06:14 AM
You farking morons are protecting the device that's used to screw your entire lives. I have to respect a machine that can create you people.
 
2012-08-16 12:08:22 AM

Phil Moskowitz: You farking morons are protecting the device that's used to screw your entire lives. I have to respect a machine that can create you people.


lol wut
 
2012-08-16 12:10:35 AM

halfof33: Phil Moskowitz: You farking morons are protecting the device that's used to screw your entire lives. I have to respect a machine that can create you people.

lol wut


What does he mean, "you people"?
 
2012-08-16 12:11:58 AM

intelligent comment below: HotIgneous Intruder: The usually will be tried by the state in which the crime committed, serve a sentence if one is adjudicated, then are deported. Barring diplomatic immunity, of course. If the crime is not serious, they would probably just get deported. The individual state would put them on trial, the Feds would deport them.


But you just said they had no rights under American law but now you're talking about a trial and sentence an all that BS? Just line them up against the wall and be done with it, since they have no protections or rights.

Idiot


Oh no. You clearly misunderstood what I wrote.
Say Mister Assange comes to the states and rapes Miss America.
He'll get charged in Florida with that crime. Florida will hold him, and put him on trial, then he will serve his sentence. OR he could be denied a trial and deported immediately. He really has no rights except those the prosecutor decides he has under trial protocols. His status as a foreigner grants him no special immunities or privileges and any rights he gets are strictly at the pleasure of the prosecutor. He won't be imprisoned without a trial in the case of rape.

However, if he was a spy, all bets are WAAAAAAY off. Under Patriot Act provisions, he could be classed as a terrorist or a foreign spy (also covered under separate federal laws) and held until hell freezes or he dies or whatever.
 
2012-08-16 12:13:06 AM

Magruda: What does he mean, "you people"?


I assume Nautilus. I am pretty farking ripped.

FIRE POWER! Kisses bicep.
 
2012-08-16 12:13:51 AM

halfof33: Phil Moskowitz: You farking morons are protecting the device that's used to screw your entire lives. I have to respect a machine that can create you people.

lol wut


Canadian. Frenchish, probably.
 
2012-08-16 12:15:46 AM

Magruda: halfof33: Phil Moskowitz: You farking morons are protecting the device that's used to screw your entire lives. I have to respect a machine that can create you people.

lol wut

What does he mean, "you people"?


I think we've stumbled upon Celine Dion's alt.
 
2012-08-16 12:18:16 AM
I'll bet there's one English policeman standing in the hallway of the Ecuadoran embassy politely insisting that Mr. Assange please come with him now.
 
2012-08-16 12:19:11 AM
Secrecy does wonderful things to you people. Personally, I hope you don't find out what has been done in your name for at least 30 years. At that point you'll be dead or statistically impotent. It's all fun, right?

You're not foxconn employees, you're Americans.
 
2012-08-16 12:20:38 AM

RulerOfNone: HotIgneous Intruder: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: It's about time we took sex offenses seriously. I for one am glad to see the UK and Sweden taking such a firm stance against sex offenders, particularly difficult to prosecute acquaintance rape. I look forward to future blockades of embassies, similar levels of police massive involvement and drawn out extradition across national borders in all rape cases reported in both countries from now on.

And it's equally refreshing to see a man accused of such a crime running and hiding and fighting being held accountable for it as though his very life depends up on it.

Assange's behavior seems a bit irrational, right?

Not when he knows this is all for political reasons. The US wants him because he made them look bad. God knows what they'll do to him if they actually manage to get their claws on him.


Supermax prison, complete isolation for as long as he lives is a real possibility.
 
2012-08-16 12:21:29 AM

Phil Moskowitz: Secrecy does wonderful things to you people. Personally, I hope you don't find out what has been done in your name for at least 30 years. At that point you'll be dead or statistically impotent. It's all fun, right?

You're not foxconn employees, you're Americans.


GO AWAY CELINE DION
 
2012-08-16 12:22:16 AM

Magruda: nip: "Burton's information had the ring of truth. As Salon's Glenn Greenwald reported last May, a secret grand jury had begun taking testimony from Wikileaks supporters in a courtroom in Alexandria, Virginia. In December, during the pre-trial hearings of Bradley Manning, the Army private who allegedly gave WikiLeaks a huge trove of classified information in 2009, prosecutors repeatedly tried to convince the judge that Assange had conspired with Manning to release the data."


Lulz. Secret grand jury. Unlike all the other totally public Grand juries in the US. Hee hee!

Glenn Greenwald has been sucking the Poor Brad tit so long that he's lost what ever objectivity he learned at Hollywood Upstairs Journalism School.
 
2012-08-16 12:22:26 AM

Phil Moskowitz: Secrecy does wonderful things to you people. Personally, I hope you don't find out what has been done in your name for at least 30 years. At that point you'll be dead or statistically impotent. It's all fun, right?

You're not foxconn employees, you're Americans.


You can be that way if it makes you feel better. Many of "us people" feel the same.
I suppose if you were in our shoes you'd get out there and right all these wrongs, eh?
Feel free to come do that any time.
 
2012-08-16 12:22:30 AM

Obbi: Phil Moskowitz: Secrecy does wonderful things to you people. Personally, I hope you don't find out what has been done in your name for at least 30 years. At that point you'll be dead or statistically impotent. It's all fun, right?

You're not foxconn employees, you're Americans.

GO AWAY CELINE DION


Is that what nananananananaanna I can't hear you looks like in American?
 
2012-08-16 12:24:56 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Phil Moskowitz: Secrecy does wonderful things to you people. Personally, I hope you don't find out what has been done in your name for at least 30 years. At that point you'll be dead or statistically impotent. It's all fun, right?

You're not foxconn employees, you're Americans.

You can be that way if it makes you feel better. Many of "us people" feel the same.
I suppose if you were in our shoes you'd get out there and right all these wrongs, eh?
Feel free to come do that any time.


Well, I could recommend a lubricant then. What is it like to submit unconditionally to your betters? You've literally submitted, no?
 
2012-08-16 12:25:35 AM

Phil Moskowitz: Secrecy does wonderful things to you people. Personally, I hope you don't find out what has been done in your name for at least 30 years. At that point you'll be dead or statistically impotent. It's all fun, right?

You're not foxconn employees, you're Americans.


Bro, the silly conspiracy theory shiat is farking weak. Specifics or finish up the kool ade and head to bed, sport.
 
2012-08-16 12:26:42 AM

Phil Moskowitz: HotIgneous Intruder: Phil Moskowitz: Secrecy does wonderful things to you people. Personally, I hope you don't find out what has been done in your name for at least 30 years. At that point you'll be dead or statistically impotent. It's all fun, right?

You're not foxconn employees, you're Americans.

You can be that way if it makes you feel better. Many of "us people" feel the same.
I suppose if you were in our shoes you'd get out there and right all these wrongs, eh?
Feel free to come do that any time.

Well, I could recommend a lubricant then. What is it like to submit unconditionally to your betters? You've literally submitted, no?


Feel free to come and fix it, tough girl.
 
2012-08-16 12:27:25 AM

halfof33: Phil Moskowitz: Secrecy does wonderful things to you people. Personally, I hope you don't find out what has been done in your name for at least 30 years. At that point you'll be dead or statistically impotent. It's all fun, right?

You're not foxconn employees, you're Americans.

Bro, the silly conspiracy theory shiat is farking weak. Specifics or finish up the kool ade and head to bed, sport.


It's like you've missed the past 20 years. There's no conspiracy, what are you talking about? It's just reality. Start with the banana wars, sport.
 
2012-08-16 12:30:49 AM

Phil Moskowitz: t's like you've missed the past 20 years. There's no conspiracy, what are you talking about? It's just reality. Start with the banana wars, sport.


Uh oh. Somebody been thumbing through the internets.
Cat's out of the bag on American Empire, boys.
We're found out!

/Been eating bananas since I was a kid, so I'm complicit.
//Forgive me, Celine!
//Bed time. NYTimes is reporting that Ecuador will let Assange stay and have banana frappes as long as he likes.
 
2012-08-16 12:30:53 AM

halfof33: Magruda: nip: "Burton's information had the ring of truth. As Salon's Glenn Greenwald reported last May, a secret grand jury had begun taking testimony from Wikileaks supporters in a courtroom in Alexandria, Virginia. In December, during the pre-trial hearings of Bradley Manning, the Army private who allegedly gave WikiLeaks a huge trove of classified information in 2009, prosecutors repeatedly tried to convince the judge that Assange had conspired with Manning to release the data."

Lulz. Secret grand jury. Unlike all the other totally public Grand juries in the US. Hee hee!

Glenn Greenwald has been sucking the Poor Brad tit so long that he's lost what ever objectivity he learned at Hollywood Upstairs Journalism School.


Your not very good at quoting are you?
 
2012-08-16 12:31:17 AM
Americans are compliant and dull. It only costs a few dollars per dipshiat to control opinion.
 
2012-08-16 12:32:05 AM
You're all kinda stupid, aren't you?
 
2012-08-16 12:32:16 AM
Falklands 2: The Colonial Boogaloo
 
2012-08-16 12:32:46 AM

Phil Moskowitz: t's like you've missed the past 20 years. There's no conspiracy, what are you talking about? It's just reality. Start with the banana wars, sport.


Um, specifics, champ. Just not completely agreeing with Phil Moskowitz is not a Federal Offense.

Focus. Be a laser. Julian is counting on you
 
2012-08-16 12:34:18 AM

Obbi: Phil Moskowitz:


halfof33: Phil Moskowitz:


HotIgneous Intruder: Phil Moskowitz:

Proof that if you cast the net wide enough.

 
2012-08-16 12:34:46 AM

halfof33: Phil Moskowitz: t's like you've missed the past 20 years. There's no conspiracy, what are you talking about? It's just reality. Start with the banana wars, sport.

Um, specifics, champ. Just not completely agreeing with Phil Moskowitz is not a Federal Offense.

Focus. Be a laser. Julian is counting on you


My wife was tarded.. she's a pilot now.
 
2012-08-16 12:34:56 AM

Magruda: halfof33: Magruda: nip: "Burton's information had the ring of truth. As Salon's Glenn Greenwald reported last May, a secret grand jury had begun taking testimony from Wikileaks supporters in a courtroom in Alexandria, Virginia. In December, during the pre-trial hearings of Bradley Manning, the Army private who allegedly gave WikiLeaks a huge trove of classified information in 2009, prosecutors repeatedly tried to convince the judge that Assange had conspired with Manning to release the data."

Lulz. Secret grand jury. Unlike all the other totally public Grand juries in the US. Hee hee!

Glenn Greenwald has been sucking the Poor Brad tit so long that he's lost what ever objectivity he learned at Hollywood Upstairs Journalism School.

Your not very good at quoting are you?


Lulz. Just busting Glenn's balls, didn't feel like retyping all that stuff. Should have just cut and pasted. Mea culpa.
 
2012-08-16 12:35:28 AM

halfof33: Um, specifics, champ.


Stop, put the food down and back away.
 
2012-08-16 12:36:59 AM

Phil Moskowitz: My wife was tarded.. she's a pilot now.


quizzicaldog.jpg
 
2012-08-16 12:37:24 AM

halfof33: Just busting Glenn's balls, didn't feel like retyping all that stuff


Don't get me wrong, i really like Glen. His take on South America is spot on.
 
2012-08-16 12:38:43 AM

halfof33: Phil Moskowitz: My wife was tarded.. she's a pilot now.

quizzicaldog.jpg


It's a movie quote.
 
2012-08-16 12:40:05 AM
You stupid assholes are going after a guy who is exposing lies your own government tried to keep from you and you feel patriotic doing so.

Do you not feel like shiatheads? I just loath your kind. You're the entropy in society. You're going to ruin humanity by being dumb kids.
 
2012-08-16 12:43:01 AM
I really am talking to people born in the 90s, aren't I?
 
2012-08-16 12:44:13 AM

Phil Moskowitz: You stupid assholes are going after a guy who is exposing lies your own government tried to keep from you and you feel patriotic doing so.

Do you not feel like shiatheads? I just loath your kind. You're the entropy in society. You're going to ruin humanity by being dumb kids.


Well, we'll always have internet rebels to post bizarre rants to keep us in line.

Julian Assange is 99% hype, 1% rape and 100% internet fanboys. Nobody cares
 
2012-08-16 12:46:04 AM

Phil Moskowitz: I really am talking to people born in the 90s, aren't I?


Says the guy who posts Idiocracy quotes

Still waiting for any specifics, Captain Drama.
 
2012-08-16 12:46:41 AM

halfof33: Phil Moskowitz: You stupid assholes are going after a guy who is exposing lies your own government tried to keep from you and you feel patriotic doing so.

Do you not feel like shiatheads? I just loath your kind. You're the entropy in society. You're going to ruin humanity by being dumb kids.

Well, we'll always have internet rebels to post bizarre rants to keep us in line.

Julian Assange is 99% hype, 1% rape and 100% internet fanboys. Nobody cares


And if you believe that, you're a goddamn robot. You really don't get whats going on. You think a diplomatic invasion of a consulate is justified for a bullshiat rape charge?

You just like the world you live in , and you don't want it to be farked with, right?
 
2012-08-16 12:48:31 AM

halfof33: Phil Moskowitz: I really am talking to people born in the 90s, aren't I?

Says the guy who posts Idiocracy quotes

Still waiting for any specifics, Captain Drama.


By all means, you have the pulse of a nation. I'm sorry.
 
2012-08-16 12:49:04 AM
He's just doing what Cronkite did 40 years ago.

Sad that mainstream journalism's war coverage today is just parroting Pentagon press releases.
 
2012-08-16 12:49:51 AM

Phil Moskowitz: And if you believe that, you're a goddamn robot. You really don't get whats going on. You think a diplomatic invasion of a consulate is justified for a bullshiat rape charge?

You just like the world you live in , and you don't want it to be farked with, right?


Tell you what, the minute they "diplomatic invasion" of a consulate occurs, I'll move right the fark out of London, OK, Drama?
 
2012-08-16 12:52:56 AM

halfof33: Phil Moskowitz: And if you believe that, you're a goddamn robot. You really don't get whats going on. You think a diplomatic invasion of a consulate is justified for a bullshiat rape charge?

You just like the world you live in , and you don't want it to be farked with, right?

Tell you what, the minute they "diplomatic invasion" of a consulate occurs, I'll move right the fark out of London, OK, Drama?


So why did UK police end up in Ecuadors embassy?
 
2012-08-16 12:55:37 AM
Hopefully justice will finally be carried out for that rapist.
 
2012-08-16 12:57:07 AM

Magruda: The legal team has offered many a time to allow interviews by Swedish prosecutors of Assange there in the UK. Makes it hard for them to take that stance after the fact.


Why should they talk to him in the UK if they want to talk to him where he committed the crime?

Why shouldn't Assange go to Sweden?

Apart from the conspiracy theories of course...my point is that if the conspiracy theories turn out to be false, Assange is just being a dick for no reason, or rather for the reason of trying to avoid questioning about a sex crime.

Taking away the conspiracy just makes him a dick trying to escape the minor inconvenience of going to Sweden to talk to the police. He's already lost a lot of support from people like me who think that he's just being a dick.

Personally, I reckon that if he has the courage of his convictions he should go even if he does get pinched by the Americans...become a Martyr. He has the balls to put himself at the head of the whole thing, big note himself as the target of the great satan, well, go and have your trial, defend yourself, show them for the bastards they are. Prove that the Americans are everything that you say they are.

Become our generations Nelson Mandela.
 
2012-08-16 12:57:32 AM

Phil Moskowitz: So why did UK police end up in Ecuadors embassy?


Specifics, Phil. No one other that internet dorks have claimed that.

Ecuador has not. The UK has not.
 
2012-08-16 12:58:00 AM
Are the governments of the U.S. and the U.K. so clueless (as the government of Egypt was) that they think they can close down the 21st century information flow by the vindictive, trumped up attack on an individual?
The smart phone has replaced the Kalashnikov and the means of political change and there's nothing they can do to stop it.
My problem with Wikileaks is that it's still focused on governments when they should be publishing the cables of the people really running the world, the multi-national corporations.
 
2012-08-16 01:00:09 AM
Why hasn't this prick been killed yet??
 
2012-08-16 01:04:51 AM

DustBunny: Why should they talk to him in the UK if they want to talk to him where he committed the crime?


Lets put aside the fact that you assign guilt before charges have even been filed. Location has no effect on a Q&A session.

DustBunny: Personally, I reckon that if he has the courage of his convictions he should go even if he does get pinched by the Americans...become a Martyr


How brave of you to suggest that someone give up their life. Actually laying down your life is much harder than just talking about it.

JAYoung: My problem with Wikileaks is that it's still focused on governments when they should be publishing the cables of the people really running the world, the multi-national corporations


Know how i know you have not been paying attention to what they have been releasing? Because they have been leaking corporate information.
 
2012-08-16 01:05:24 AM

JAYoung: Are the governments of the U.S. and the U.K. so clueless (as the government of Egypt was) that they think they can close down the 21st century information flow by the vindictive, trumped up attack on an individual?
The smart phone has replaced the Kalashnikov and the means of political change and there's nothing they can do to stop it.
My problem with Wikileaks is that it's still focused on governments when they should be publishing the cables of the people really running the world, the multi-national corporations.


My problem with Wikileaks is that they recklessly publish information without care as to who gets hurt by it. Despite what the liberals want you to believe, you do NOT have the right to know everything.
 
2012-08-16 01:09:02 AM
There's no one better than you guys. You figured this shiat out? RIght?
 
2012-08-16 01:10:11 AM

Magruda: Location has no effect on a Q&A session.


if location has no effect on a Q&A session why should they come to England? Why shouldn't he go to Sweden?
 
2012-08-16 01:11:48 AM

FlyingLizardOfDoom: My problem with Wikileaks is that they recklessly publish information without care as to who gets hurt by it.


Yeah, the reason why they dumpted the cables separatly is because they were going over them to make sure no one was harmed by the information. I'm sure you'd know this if you actually cared.
 
2012-08-16 01:15:26 AM

DustBunny: Magruda: Location has no effect on a Q&A session.

if location has no effect on a Q&A session why should they come to England? Why shouldn't he go to Sweden?


Because if they lock him up during the Q&A session he can't seek asylum if the US requests extradition. Again, he is just wanted for questioning, no charges have been filed.
 
2012-08-16 01:16:32 AM
wikileaks =/ assange

IMHO the US and UK governments are making themselves look like paranoid dictatorships by going after Assange so ferociously.
 
2012-08-16 01:19:24 AM

Magruda: FlyingLizardOfDoom: My problem with Wikileaks is that they recklessly publish information without care as to who gets hurt by it.

Yeah, the reason why they dumpted the cables separatly is because they were going over them to make sure no one was harmed by the information. I'm sure you'd know this if you actually cared.


The fact that they sorted through the information first is immaterial. In the end, the published classified information that when released, makes it more difficult to conduct private, diplomatic exchanges. They consider themselves the guardian of the world and subscribe to the idea that an open society is a peaceful society.

However, as in the case of the babel fish, reducing barriers to information only starts wars, instead of preventing them. I am willing to bet my life savings that the next major world war will have been started by Wikileaks or similar sites.
 
2012-08-16 01:19:26 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: More like I swatted it like a fly and moved on.
/Uniforms don't apply to me; I'm no authoritarian. Check your meds.



Riiight, you just happen to be trolling only when you get caught in your ignorance. How convenient. And yes, take your meds, anyone who trolls needs to take meds.
 
2012-08-16 01:19:27 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: I'll bet there's one English policeman standing in the hallway of the Ecuadoran embassy politely insisting that Mr. Assange please come with him now.


No, that would be if they were in Canada.
 
2012-08-16 01:20:02 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Oh no. You clearly misunderstood what I wrote.
Say Mister Assange comes to the states and rapes Miss America.
He'll get charged in Florida with that crime. Florida will hold him, and put him on trial, then he will serve his sentence. OR he could be denied a trial and deported immediately. He really has no rights except those the prosecutor decides he has under trial protocols. His status as a foreigner grants him no special immunities or privileges and any rights he gets are strictly at the pleasure of the prosecutor. He won't be imprisoned without a trial in the case of rape.

However, if he was a spy, all bets are WAAAAAAY off. Under Patriot Act provisions, he could be classed as a terrorist or a foreign spy (also covered under separate federal laws) and held until hell freezes or he dies or whatever.



Take your meds bro
 
2012-08-16 01:20:06 AM

cloud_van_dame: wikileaks =/ assange

IMHO the US and UK governments are making themselves look like paranoid dictatorships by going after Assange so ferociously.


He is wanted for Rape and Espianage, and you think he should get off with a candygram?
 
2012-08-16 01:20:54 AM

Magruda: How brave of you to suggest that someone give up their life. Actually laying down your life is much harder than just talking about it


Bah, he set himself up as the big hero of the internet age, some kind of self styled James Bond surfing couches and beds of groupies all round the world, well, he's now discovering that his chosen 'profession' is serious business, and rather than go underground and escape only to pop up somewhere else to continue his good work, he's decided to attention whore further, burning people who put a lot of faith and money in his defence and bail etc.

He's set himself up as a hero, and now he's totally pussing out. fark that guy.

I started out as a huge supporter of Wikileaks, but Assange's indiscriminate releases of information with no care for the relevance or impact, and his general massive dickishness and cowardice leaves me with no respect for him at all, and in my opinion he has done huge damage to the wikileaks brand.

There should never have been this attention whore out front, wikileaks should've stayed underground and built their reputation through solid, considered and careful releases in the public interest.
 
2012-08-16 01:21:28 AM

Phil Moskowitz: You think a diplomatic invasion of a consulate is justified for a bullshiat rape charge?


Stop saying this! He has not been charged with any crime - he is wanted in Sweden to be questioned on allegations. The prosecutors don't even feel it's appropriate to charge him yet, which is rather telling.
 
2012-08-16 01:21:30 AM

halfof33: Nobody cares



And yet you self appointed patriots always rush to bash him and call for his head. So apparently you do seem to care
 
2012-08-16 01:22:18 AM
who cares? you stupid assholes don't.
 
2012-08-16 01:22:32 AM

The Dog Ate The Constitution: Hopefully justice will finally be carried out for that rapist.



Conservatives love rape, it enforces their superiority over others. Hugely popular in the military too
 
2012-08-16 01:23:23 AM

FlyingLizardOfDoom: However, as in the case of the babel fish, reducing barriers to information only starts wars, instead of preventing them


Know how i know you didn't actually read Douglas Adams?

You are making the case for a police state ala George Orwell, another genius of scifi you should reread.
 
2012-08-16 01:23:28 AM

STRYPERSWINE: Why hasn't this prick been killed yet??



Because you don't just go around killing journalists, especially if you're a country claiming to be BEST FREEDOM EVER
 
2012-08-16 01:25:18 AM
1. Grant Assange Ecuadorian citizenship.
2. Appoint Assange as an Ambassador giving him diplomatic immunity.
3. Give the dude cab fare to Heathrow.
4. Viva la revolucion!
 
2012-08-16 01:25:36 AM

Magruda: Because if they lock him up during the Q&A session he can't seek asylum if the US requests extradition. Again, he is just wanted for questioning, no charges have been file


And his whole running away is based on his supposedly being locked up (which is probably a lot more likely now than it was at the start, what with being a flight risk and all).

If they're not going to lock him up, then there's no reason not to go, right? After all, he is just wanted for questioning, no charges have been filed...

Everyone's getting excited over his conspiracy theory that's really conveniently getting him out of a potential rape trial...

I bet there's a lot of people out there who wished they'd thought of that angle whilst they were on the run...
 
2012-08-16 01:26:02 AM

Magruda: FlyingLizardOfDoom: However, as in the case of the babel fish, reducing barriers to information only starts wars, instead of preventing them

Know how i know you didn't actually read Douglas Adams?

You are making the case for a police state ala George Orwell, another genius of scifi you should reread.


I am in favor of a police state if it will reign in on reckless publication of private information.
 
2012-08-16 01:26:57 AM

intelligent comment below: STRYPERSWINE: Why hasn't this prick been killed yet??


Because you don't just go around killing journalists, especially if you're a country claiming to be BEST FREEDOM EVER


lol. He's not a journalist. Journalists have standards and morals. This guy is an asshole..
 
2012-08-16 01:27:09 AM

DustBunny: And his whole running away is based on his supposedly being locked up (which is probably a lot more likely now than it was at the start, what with being a flight risk and all).


Did you miss the part where Sweden doesn't have bail and will hold him in prison, denying him the opportunity to seek asylum at a later time?
 
2012-08-16 01:29:08 AM

FlyingLizardOfDoom: I am in favor of a police state if it will reign in on reckless publication of private information


"Those who would give up a little bit of freedom for a little bit of security, deserve neither."

DustBunny: If they're not going to lock him up, then there's no reason not to go, right? After all, he is just wanted for questioning, no charges have been filed...


In sweden they book you during questioning. If a trail is such a foregone conclusion why not actually charge him with a crime?
 
2012-08-16 01:29:24 AM

FlyingLizardOfDoom: Magruda: FlyingLizardOfDoom: However, as in the case of the babel fish, reducing barriers to information only starts wars, instead of preventing them

Know how i know you didn't actually read Douglas Adams?

You are making the case for a police state ala George Orwell, another genius of scifi you should reread.

I am in favor of a police state if it will reign in on reckless publication of private information.


Got you marked as Police State fark.
 
2012-08-16 01:30:06 AM

FlyingLizardOfDoom: lol. He's not a journalist. Journalists have standards and morals. This guy is an asshole..



Ah I get it. Lets create new bizarre "rules of being a journalist"

He doesn't have standards or morals because... because you say so. That's why. Sounds legit.
 
2012-08-16 01:30:27 AM

intelligent comment below: Because you don't just go around killing journalists, especially if you're a country claiming to be BEST FREEDOM EVER


What Journalism did Assange perform?

He published the data, you might call him a publisher, but surely he would have to write a few articles to be called a journalist?
 
2012-08-16 01:30:28 AM

FlyingLizardOfDoom: lol. He's not a journalist. Journalists have standards and morals. This guy is an asshole..


Does this mean we can lock up Geraldo?
 
2012-08-16 01:31:01 AM
Too bad I missed this one:

FlyingLizardOfDoom: Journalists have standards and morals.


Standards and morals. like wanting a police state?

FlyingLizardOfDoom: I am in favor of a police state if it will reign in on reckless publication of private information.

 
2012-08-16 01:31:59 AM

DustBunny: He published the data, you might call him a publisher, but surely he would have to write a few articles to be called a journalist?


How do you know he didn't?
 
2012-08-16 01:35:09 AM

DustBunny: He published the data, you might call him a publisher, but surely he would have to write a few articles to be called a journalist?


Yeah, he's only written several articles for the Guardian and interviewed several global figures on the RT network on his own show. But really, why should we call him a journalist?
 
2012-08-16 01:35:50 AM

intelligent comment below: The Dog Ate The Constitution: Hopefully justice will finally be carried out for that rapist.


Conservatives love rape, it enforces their superiority over others. Hugely popular in the military too


Assange raped a girl. Liberals idolize Assange. Liberals idolize a rapist. You are a fool.
 
2012-08-16 01:36:51 AM

FlyingLizardOfDoom: My problem with Wikileaks is that they recklessly publish information without care as to who gets hurt by it. Despite what the liberals want you to believe, you do NOT have the right to know everything.


Hey, if governments have done nothing wrong they have nothing to hide, right?
 
2012-08-16 01:38:05 AM

Magruda: In sweden they book you during questioning. If a trail is such a foregone conclusion why not actually charge him with a crime?


Honestly, I wasn't aware that a trial was a foregone conclusion...has Sweden said he's going straight into a trial, or have they said he's going to be questioned? and yes, I know that in Sweden you get locked up during questioning, I think it's 6 days? And you're right, if he does get charged he won't get the chance to scurry into another embassy and try and claim political asylum to get out of it.

gotta say, one thing this tells me is that if you're going to be an international internet James Bond fugitive hero and travel the world shagging groupies, you really need to make sure you know the local laws and make sure that you don't do anything stupid that might trip you up...
 
2012-08-16 01:40:26 AM

that bosnian sniper: Hey, if governments have done nothing wrong they have nothing to hide, right?


And if they want to hide something they did right?

Say they had an agent that helped avert a huge war crime/massacre/human rights violation and they wanted to keep that under wraps so as to protect that person?
 
2012-08-16 01:40:45 AM

DustBunny: And you're right, if he does get charged he won't get the chance to scurry into another embassy and try and claim political asylum to get out of it.


He's not worried about being charged, if they have evidence to charge him they would have indicted him on criminal charges, he's worried about being handed to the US. Have you not been paying attention?
 
2012-08-16 01:41:03 AM

The Dog Ate The Constitution: Assange raped a girl.



citation needed

DustBunny: What Journalism did Assange perform?

He published the data, you might call him a publisher, but surely he would have to write a few articles to be called a journalist?



So a person getting data from a source and publishing it in an article is NOT a journalist but rather a publisher?

Interesting concept, can you point out what definition of journalist fits in with these claims?
 
2012-08-16 01:42:55 AM

DustBunny: that bosnian sniper: Hey, if governments have done nothing wrong they have nothing to hide, right?

And if they want to hide something they did right?

Say they had an agent that helped avert a huge war crime/massacre/human rights violation and they wanted to keep that under wraps so as to protect that person?


You can play "what if" all day. Did the information released endanger anyone? Sources say no. Did it embarass governments and show they have been lying to their people? Yes.
 
2012-08-16 01:45:22 AM

intelligent comment below: So a person getting data from a source and publishing it in an article is NOT a journalist but rather a publisher?


I guess I assume a certain amount of value add from a 'Journalist', not just Ctrl C / Ctrl V
 
2012-08-16 01:47:32 AM

Magruda: DustBunny: that bosnian sniper: Hey, if governments have done nothing wrong they have nothing to hide, right?

And if they want to hide something they did right?

Say they had an agent that helped avert a huge war crime/massacre/human rights violation and they wanted to keep that under wraps so as to protect that person?

You can play "what if" all day. Did the information released endanger anyone? Sources say no. Did it embarass governments and show they have been lying to their people? Yes.


So now you are advocating the ends justify the means?
 
2012-08-16 01:47:59 AM

DustBunny: intelligent comment below: So a person getting data from a source and publishing it in an article is NOT a journalist but rather a publisher?

I guess I assume a certain amount of value add from a 'Journalist', not just Ctrl C / Ctrl V


Dude, reporting the news, IS just Ctrl C / Ctrl V. Adding opinion is what you have come to expect from the people who tell you how to think.
 
2012-08-16 01:48:17 AM

Phil Moskowitz: halfof33: Phil Moskowitz: You stupid assholes are going after a guy who is exposing lies your own government tried to keep from you and you feel patriotic doing so.

Do you not feel like shiatheads? I just loath your kind. You're the entropy in society. You're going to ruin humanity by being dumb kids.

Well, we'll always have internet rebels to post bizarre rants to keep us in line.

Julian Assange is 99% hype, 1% rape and 100% internet fanboys. Nobody cares

And if you believe that, you're a goddamn robot. You really don't get whats going on. You think a diplomatic invasion of a consulate is justified for a bullshiat rape charge?

You just like the world you live in , and you don't want it to be farked with, right?


Or it could be that Julian Assange is an asshole. He self-aggrandizes like mad, he swaggers around conning women into farking him by pretending to be this International man of mystery instead of the dumbest (but best at lying) tech of the wikileaks support staff (who have basically said he is the "office jerk-ass"). He is completely unnecessary to the functioning of the site and he's unlikable. 98% hype, 1% rape (because that charge wasn't trumped-up) and 1% usefulness to the general cause of freedom and openness.

Wikileaks itself? Does more good than bad. It's not the bastion of perfect freedom people would like to believe, they grind axes, they disrespect things that actually should have remained private, and they shiat the bed when they could have just changed the sheets; but they're still shining sunshine on things that need to be lit up.
 
2012-08-16 01:51:40 AM

FlyingLizardOfDoom: So now you are advocating the ends justify the means?


That is a streach, I could loose control of my car and kill someone during my commute tomorrow. It didn't happen today, does that mean the ends justify the means? I lost control of my car once in highschool, no one was hurt, they could have been, does that mean i should be arrested for attempted manslaughter?

You are advocating blind possiblility as a means of criminal justice.
 
2012-08-16 01:52:47 AM

DustBunny: Say they had an agent that helped avert a huge war crime/massacre/human rights violation and they wanted to keep that under wraps so as to protect that person?



Who outed a secret agent? Only the Bush administration
 
2012-08-16 01:54:12 AM

DustBunny: intelligent comment below: So a person getting data from a source and publishing it in an article is NOT a journalist but rather a publisher?

I guess I assume a certain amount of value add from a 'Journalist', not just Ctrl C / Ctrl V



Releasing data from a whistleblower that turns governments and corporations on their heads is not value? Okay... that's like, your opinion bro
 
2012-08-16 01:54:22 AM

STRYPERSWINE: Why hasn't this prick been killed yet??


Yeah man, fark that guy.
In fact, we should have a Ministry of Truth and start killing journalists who stand against any current ruling administration.
It's the Soviet American way.
 
2012-08-16 01:56:18 AM

Magruda: DustBunny: that bosnian sniper: Hey, if governments have done nothing wrong they have nothing to hide, right?

And if they want to hide something they did right?

Say they had an agent that helped avert a huge war crime/massacre/human rights violation and they wanted to keep that under wraps so as to protect that person?

You can play "what if" all day. Did the information released endanger anyone? Sources say no. Did it embarass governments and show they have been lying to their people? Yes.


Some of the things they released were the international diplomacy equivalent of throwing an irate housecat at the legs of some complicated synchronized dancing for no other purpose than to trip up the dancers. Wikileaks does more good than harm but I just can't agree that a world without secrets or discretion is a good thing. Sometimes a quiet, secure conversation is the difference between a bloody war and boring staring contest.

That said, Assange should go to prison in Sweden for the crime of being a dickbag, nothing more.
 
2012-08-16 01:58:43 AM

FlyingLizardOfDoom: I am in favor of a police state if it will reign in on reckless publication of private information.


So you're a fascist.
Yes, the state should have access to all our information and Trapwire is just fine.
However, information going the other way around is unacceptable.
Governments/multinational corporations should have nothing to hide/fear. Those barriers of information are so they can continue to wage wars against each other, not to reduce conflict.
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-08-16 02:00:04 AM

TheBigJerk: Wikileaks does more good than harm but I just can't agree that a world without secrets or discretion is a good thing.


And a world with too many secrets is not a free one.
 
2012-08-16 02:01:20 AM

Magruda: Dude, reporting the news, IS just Ctrl C / Ctrl V. Adding opinion is what you have come to expect from the people who tell you how to think.


No, fact checking, background and context is what I expect.

A lot of the diplomatic cables that were released were opinions and unconfirmed information from local diplomats being cabled back to the state department where they would be used as part of the analysis.

This info could be inaccurate, could be hearsay, could be conjecture, could be solid gold juicy facts outlining government misconduct or it could be just gossip.

I expect background and context to find out whether that info was actually accurate, whether it was actually used, or whether it was found to not match up with other known facts and was therefore dismissed.

ie a report from a source in a government that the defense minister totally said that there is going to be a chinese base and that the defense minister wasn't going to allow it but then took a huge bribe and now it's going ahead....a juicy story! unless someone checks to see if that guy actually met the defense minister, and found that the minister was in france for a week at that time and someone is trying to cause mischief...

The raw cable is juicy and can be misinterpreted by all and sundry...the defense minister of derpistan is taking bribes from the chinese! any attempt to cover it up (correct it) by the media is a lie, look it's in the wikileaks cables! and all of a sudden it's an 'internet fact' and the americans are all of a sudden mistrusted by the derpistan government.
 
2012-08-16 02:01:51 AM
You guys are hilarious.

Assange has been a done deal. He'll never ever truly be free again no matter where he goes and he is a great way to play "Look at THIS! Look over HERE! You want to WATCH THIS!" and distract folk from other shenanigans.

It doesn't help that his dickbag ego feeds off this so he is pretty much just as guilty.
 
2012-08-16 02:02:01 AM

The Dog Ate The Constitution: Assange raped a girl. Liberals idolize Assange. Liberals idolize a rapist. You are a fool.


This claim is very questionable. Refer upthread to how much obvious bullshiat this trial is.
Reagan and his administration funded and supported terrorists. Conservatives idollize Reagan. Conservatives idolize terrorists. You are a fool.
And last time I checked the "liberal" party wasn't the one voting for bills protecting rapists in Congress.
 
2012-08-16 02:04:50 AM

DustBunny: No, fact checking, background and context is what I expect.


Thanks for reinforcing the notion that you need to be told how to think.
 
2012-08-16 02:06:51 AM
subby I stole your headline...

/Ecuadorian
//OMG NOW EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT MY COUNTRY EXISTS!!!
///No, is not on Africa.
 
2012-08-16 02:12:01 AM

DustBunny: Say they had an agent that helped avert a huge war crime/massacre/human rights violation and they wanted to keep that under wraps so as to protect that person?


Protect that person from whom or what, exactly? Are you alleging sovereign states cannot protect their own operatives without a shroud of secrecy?

If you're pulling hypotheticals out your ass, so can I. Let's say the White House declassified the names of the DEVGRU members who participated in the bin Laden raid. Given their operational secrecy, I somehow doubt that will compromise the success or failure rate of future operations. I also doubt the security of a tenant command on one of the most heavily-guarded naval bases in the US would be compromised for it, either. And, I seriously doubt anyone on the planet except maybe a handful of lunatics already on enough national security watch lists that they wouldn't be able to come within a two-mile radius of a DEVGRU member without getting swarmed by LEO's would have a major enough problem with one of the guys who shot bin Laden to attempt something stupid. The only people from whom those DEVGRU members would actually "need" protection is the news media and politicians, under threat of not getting five minutes' peace and quiet for the rest of their lives.

So, I say again -- if the government has done nothing wrong, it has nothing to hide.
 
2012-08-16 02:12:34 AM

Magruda: Thanks for reinforcing the notion that you need to be told how to think.


I'm not sure how requesting the context (ie the set of circumstances or facts that surround a particular event, situation, etc) of something I'm being informed of is being told what to think...especially if I'm unfamiliar with the situation...

a story about someone that shot someone else doesn't mean much if we don't know who they are or why they were there etc...be a pretty boring story

"A guy was shot in the street today, the end"

I guess it says a lot about you if you think you know everything already, and if someone tries to give you more information about the situation you yell "STOP TELLING ME HOW TO THINK, MAN!"
 
2012-08-16 02:15:20 AM

BafflerMeal: intelligent comment below: HotIgneous Intruder: Remember also that Assange has no rights under American law, since he's not a citizen.


So a person visiting America commits a crime, the government can hold them forever? wut?

Sadly, some people believe this.


In fact, no crime is required. The government can hold them forever regardless.  [link]
 
2012-08-16 02:16:27 AM

m2313: This claim is very questionable. Refer upthread to how much obvious bullshiat this trial is.


No farking shiat. Even the women who originally pressed the charges don't feel they were raped or that Assange did anything particularly egregious against them or their bodies, or harbor any particular ill will against the man himself. They were initially pissed over unprotected contact, and wanted to find out if there was a way to compel Assange to undergo STD testing to protect themselves. They were advised by their attorneys the only way to do so was to press rape charges (whether that resulted in conviction or not), and upon doing so the governments of the western world took and ran with it.
 
2012-08-16 02:17:01 AM
The U.S. should just disappear this rapist already. Not like the scumbag has anybody who would miss him.
 
2012-08-16 02:18:01 AM

DustBunny: I'm not sure how requesting the context (ie the set of circumstances or facts that surround a particular event, situation, etc) of something I'm being informed of is being told what to think...especially if I'm unfamiliar with the situation...


Because "context" is what is used in propaganda to frame an issue the way you want it to be discussed. Your same example can be retold to make the shooter out to be a hero or vise versa for the victim. It all depends on the context you are provided.
 
2012-08-16 02:27:41 AM

The Dog Ate The Constitution: The U.S. should just disappear this rapist already. Not like the scumbag has anybody who would miss him.


But enough about your personal life
 
2012-08-16 02:32:10 AM
US must be leaning on UK HARD for the UK to threaten Ecuador
 
2012-08-16 02:36:49 AM
How can the U.S charge him when Assange has not broken any laws on American soil?
 
2012-08-16 02:39:05 AM
U.K: The United States bottom biatch since the Iraq war
 
2012-08-16 02:39:50 AM
The UK government can do it legally. Thatcher's government made it legal.

Presumably, any country maintaining diplomatic or consular premises in the UK is implicitly agreeing to be bound by this law. Ecuador can complain all they like, and say "Well who ever actually reads the EULA?", but they cannot do a thing about it.
 
2012-08-16 02:40:35 AM

TheBigJerk: the dumbest (but best at lying) tech of the wikileaks support staff (who have basically said he is the "office jerk-ass"). He is completely unnecessary to the functioning of the site


I would argue he makes a great contribution to wikileaks by being such a public and inflammatory figurehead. If people who are angry with Wikileaks focus on him, that takes heat off the people actually running the place.
 
2012-08-16 02:42:34 AM

Magruda: Because "context" is what is used in propaganda to frame an issue the way you want it to be discussed. Your same example can be retold to make the shooter out to be a hero or vise versa for the victim. It all depends on the context you are provided.


So to get to the truth, you have to ignore the context?
 
2012-08-16 02:44:11 AM

VonEvilstein: The UK government can do it legally. Thatcher's government made it legal.

Presumably, any country maintaining diplomatic or consular premises in the UK is implicitly agreeing to be bound by this law. Ecuador can complain all they like, and say "Well who ever actually reads the EULA?", but they cannot do a thing about it.


legally or not, the slope is slippery

plus the geneva convention out ranks EULA
 
2012-08-16 02:47:50 AM
if a country made torture legal it'd still be illegal
international regulations always trumph a countrys
 
2012-08-16 02:49:52 AM

SpaceButler: So to get to the truth, you have to ignore the context?


If you want truth take a philosophy class. Journalism is about facts.
 
2012-08-16 02:51:33 AM
LOL how americans are defending a government that has lied to them and making assange out to be the devil

farking morons in that country
 
2012-08-16 02:53:58 AM

ontariolightning: VonEvilstein: The UK government can do it legally. Thatcher's government made it legal.

Presumably, any country maintaining diplomatic or consular premises in the UK is implicitly agreeing to be bound by this law. Ecuador can complain all they like, and say "Well who ever actually reads the EULA?", but they cannot do a thing about it.

legally or not, the slope is slippery

plus the geneva convention out ranks EULA


Does the Geneva Convention mention diplomatic premises? I haven't been able to find any mention of them specifically in an initial Googling. Want to help me out here?

The wording of the UK bill certainly doesn't seem to think it worth mentioning the G.C..

Aaaah, you meant the Vienna Convention, I assume...

"Article 22. The premises of a diplomatic mission, such as an embassy, are inviolate and must not be entered by the host country except by permission of the head of the mission. Furthermore, the host country must protect the mission from intrusion or damage. The host country must never search the premises, nor seize its documents or property. Article 30 extends this provision to the private residence of the diplomats."

Now this is all fine and dandy. But the UK D&CP Act seems to neatly sidestep that by allowing the government to terminate the diplomatic mission status of the premises., and thus be able to act without violating the V.C..
 
2012-08-16 02:55:39 AM

Magruda: If you want truth take a philosophy class. Journalism Archeology is about facts.


My bad.
 
2012-08-16 03:00:03 AM

VonEvilstein: ontariolightning: VonEvilstein: The UK government can do it legally. Thatcher's government made it legal.

Presumably, any country maintaining diplomatic or consular premises in the UK is implicitly agreeing to be bound by this law. Ecuador can complain all they like, and say "Well who ever actually reads the EULA?", but they cannot do a thing about it.

legally or not, the slope is slippery

plus the geneva convention out ranks EULA

Does the Geneva Convention mention diplomatic premises? I haven't been able to find any mention of them specifically in an initial Googling. Want to help me out here?

The wording of the UK bill certainly doesn't seem to think it worth mentioning the G.C..

Aaaah, you meant the Vienna Convention, I assume...

"Article 22. The premises of a diplomatic mission, such as an embassy, are inviolate and must not be entered by the host country except by permission of the head of the mission. Furthermore, the host country must protect the mission from intrusion or damage. The host country must never search the premises, nor seize its documents or property. Article 30 extends this provision to the private residence of the diplomats."

Now this is all fine and dandy. But the UK D&CP Act seems to neatly sidestep that by allowing the government to terminate the diplomatic mission status of the premises., and thus be able to act without violating the V.C..


Fine

Then as a result Argentina, Ecaudor, Veneuzuela, Chile, Brazil, and a bunch of other like minded south american countries take Falkland Islands.

Look what the UK did, they started a war
 
2012-08-16 03:06:14 AM

Magruda: Because "context" is what is used in propaganda to frame an issue the way you want it to be discussed. Your same example can be retold to make the shooter out to be a hero or vise versa for the victim. It all depends on the context you are provided.


aaah so your issue is with the trustworthiness of the person/organisation providing the context...

That's a whole other conversation, and why some people trust certain news sources over others, say the guardian over fox news, or the BBC over CNN...or Al Jazeera over Haaretz....

If you outright discount the concept of context being provided then you're missing out on a hell of a lot of good work being done by trustworthy people to bring you information.

/Of course when the guardian's 'context' started to interfere with the white knight narrative of Assange and Wikileaks, then they become suspect to a lot of people as well.....
 
2012-08-16 03:09:18 AM

VonEvilstein: ontariolightning: VonEvilstein: The UK government can do it legally. Thatcher's government made it legal.

Presumably, any country maintaining diplomatic or consular premises in the UK is implicitly agreeing to be bound by this law. Ecuador can complain all they like, and say "Well who ever actually reads the EULA?", but they cannot do a thing about it.

legally or not, the slope is slippery

plus the geneva convention out ranks EULA

Does the Geneva Convention mention diplomatic premises? I haven't been able to find any mention of them specifically in an initial Googling. Want to help me out here?

The wording of the UK bill certainly doesn't seem to think it worth mentioning the G.C..

Aaaah, you meant the Vienna Convention, I assume...

"Article 22. The premises of a diplomatic mission, such as an embassy, are inviolate and must not be entered by the host country except by permission of the head of the mission. Furthermore, the host country must protect the mission from intrusion or damage. The host country must never search the premises, nor seize its documents or property. Article 30 extends this provision to the private residence of the diplomats."

Now this is all fine and dandy. But the UK D&CP Act seems to neatly sidestep that by allowing the government to terminate the diplomatic mission status of the premises., and thus be able to act without violating the V.C..


That's premises, though. As I mentioned upthread, if the Ecuadorians are smart they can declare Assange an ad hoc diplomatic courier - there's nothing in the Convention that says he has to be an Ecuadorian citizen - and the authorities can't touch him. Give him a diplomatic pouch with a blank sheet of paper in it and he's away laughing.
 
2012-08-16 03:10:20 AM

ontariolightning: S must be leaning on UK HARD for the UK to threaten Ecuador


Why can't it just be the UK defending the integrity of it's own bail rules?

Assange broke the conditions of his bail, he gets incarcerated as per the agreed repercussions for breaching the conditions of his bail.

Assange involved Ecuador, not the UK or the US...
 
2012-08-16 03:13:27 AM

DustBunny: ontariolightning: S must be leaning on UK HARD for the UK to threaten Ecuador

Why can't it just be the UK defending the integrity of it's own bail rules?

Assange broke the conditions of his bail, he gets incarcerated as per the agreed repercussions for breaching the conditions of his bail.

Assange involved Ecuador, not the UK or the US...


oh shush everyone knows its the US who actually wants Assange
 
2012-08-16 03:18:21 AM

Magruda: SpaceButler: So to get to the truth, you have to ignore the context?

If you want truth take a philosophy class. Journalism is about facts.


Well, in this particular case what one must question is why the facts that,

- the women colluded and changed their stories after the fact to reflect a more hostile image of Assange than initially given to police,

- the women originally only sought a way to compel Assange to submit to STD testing but learned the only way to do that was to press rape charges,

- the original complaints and resulting investigation was closed for lack of prosecutorial merit,

- and the investigation was reopened days later with the warrant issued including charges not originally pressed against Assange;

have been ignored, and moreover suppressed, by not only the media but law enforcement and government officially, in favor of a narrative that Assange is somehow now a violent rapist.
 
2012-08-16 03:20:16 AM

ontariolightning: if a country made torture legal it'd still be illegal
international regulations always trumph a countrys


No they don't
 
2012-08-16 03:25:15 AM

CujoQuarrel: ontariolightning: if a country made torture legal it'd still be illegal
international regulations always trumph a countrys

No they don't


Yes, but in a big country, dreams stay with you
 
2012-08-16 03:28:39 AM

Skyrmion: In fact, no crime is required. The government can hold them forever regardless. [link]



That law is still up for debate, and has only been applied to terror suspects.
 
2012-08-16 03:29:24 AM

The Dog Ate The Constitution: The U.S. should just disappear this rapist already. Not like the scumbag has anybody who would miss him.



No authoritarian like a right wing authoritarian
 
2012-08-16 03:32:50 AM

ontariolightning: VonEvilstein: ontariolightning: VonEvilstein: The UK government can do it legally. Thatcher's government made it legal.

Presumably, any country maintaining diplomatic or consular premises in the UK is implicitly agreeing to be bound by this law. Ecuador can complain all they like, and say "Well who ever actually reads the EULA?", but they cannot do a thing about it.

legally or not, the slope is slippery

plus the geneva convention out ranks EULA

Does the Geneva Convention mention diplomatic premises? I haven't been able to find any mention of them specifically in an initial Googling. Want to help me out here?

The wording of the UK bill certainly doesn't seem to think it worth mentioning the G.C..

Aaaah, you meant the Vienna Convention, I assume...

"Article 22. The premises of a diplomatic mission, such as an embassy, are inviolate and must not be entered by the host country except by permission of the head of the mission. Furthermore, the host country must protect the mission from intrusion or damage. The host country must never search the premises, nor seize its documents or property. Article 30 extends this provision to the private residence of the diplomats."

Now this is all fine and dandy. But the UK D&CP Act seems to neatly sidestep that by allowing the government to terminate the diplomatic mission status of the premises., and thus be able to act without violating the V.C..

Fine

Then as a result Argentina, Ecaudor, Veneuzuela, Chile, Brazil, and a bunch of other like minded south american countries take Falkland Islands.

Look what the UK did, they started a war


integrity-legal.com: 'There is a common misconception that Embassies and Consulates have extraterritoriality. As anecdotal evidence of this misconception, people will often say things like, "the US Embassy sits upon United States soil." For the most part, this is not the case as extraterritoriality is not conferred upon an Embassy or Consulate, but in some situations extraterritoriality may be created by Treaty'.

A diplomatic mission is not the same as sovereign territory. False equivalence is false.

thisispete:
That's premises, though. As I mentioned upthread, if the Ecuadorians are smart they can declare Assange an ad hoc diplomatic courier - there's nothing in the Convention that says he has to be an Ecuadorian citizen - and the authorities can't touch him. Give him a diplomatic pouch with a blank sheet of paper in it and he's away laughing.


Indeed. Let's see if they give that a go.

To make things perfectly clear, I am not trying to argue the ethics of the UK government's position. Just the legality of it.
 
2012-08-16 03:33:34 AM

intelligent comment below: The Dog Ate The Constitution: The U.S. should just disappear this rapist already. Not like the scumbag has anybody who would miss him.


No authoritarian like a right wing authoritarian


Because left wing authoritarians never disappeared anyone. Ever.
 
2012-08-16 03:35:01 AM
Boy, we better stay on top, the world would have a feeding frenzy on us and the UK if we ever fall low enough.

We look like Rome, weapons everywhere, going broke, divided and paranoid, we become the very thing we started out in opposition to.

Most of what is classified shouldn't have to be for the beacon of freedom and liberty in the world.
 
2012-08-16 03:43:53 AM

VonEvilstein: Because left wing authoritarians never disappeared anyone. Ever.



There is no such thing as a liberal authoritarian, it is anathema to the left wing orthodoxy. You are thinking of military dictators who are right wing authoritarian.
 
2012-08-16 03:44:51 AM
Assange pissed off some very powerful people. Anyone who believes this has anything to do with "rape" is naive to the point of almost willful ignorance.
 
2012-08-16 03:45:36 AM

intelligent comment below: VonEvilstein: Because left wing authoritarians never disappeared anyone. Ever.


There is no such thing as a liberal authoritarian, it is anathema to the left wing orthodoxy. You are thinking of military dictators who are right wing authoritarian.


He could be talking about neoliberals
 
2012-08-16 03:47:25 AM
I'm pretty sure that if the UK barges in and grabs him, the next thing that happens is Ecuador declaring war and not really giving a shiat what the odds are of them not getting blown to smithereens.
 
2012-08-16 03:54:13 AM

intelligent comment below: VonEvilstein: Because left wing authoritarians never disappeared anyone. Ever.


There is no such thing as a liberal authoritarian, it is anathema to the left wing orthodoxy. You are thinking of military dictators who are right wing authoritarian.


Er, no. I am thinking about commies.
 
2012-08-16 03:55:10 AM

VonEvilstein: intelligent comment below: The Dog Ate The Constitution: The U.S. should just disappear this rapist already. Not like the scumbag has anybody who would miss him.


No authoritarian like a right wing authoritarian

Because left wing authoritarians never disappeared anyone. Ever.


www.eyecatcherlures.com
 
2012-08-16 04:10:08 AM

Captain_Ballbeard: VonEvilstein: intelligent comment below: The Dog Ate The Constitution: The U.S. should just disappear this rapist already. Not like the scumbag has anybody who would miss him.


No authoritarian like a right wing authoritarian

Because left wing authoritarians never disappeared anyone. Ever.

[www.eyecatcherlures.com image 250x250]


Indeed. All hail the Mighty Mackerel Mobile!
 
2012-08-16 04:49:11 AM
preapism.com
 
2012-08-16 05:03:18 AM
I am not cool with this.
 
2012-08-16 05:07:17 AM

thisispete: ...

That's premises, though. As I mentioned upthread, if the Ecuadorians are smart they can declare Assange an ad hoc diplomatic courier - there's nothing in the Convention that says he has to be an Ecuadorian citizen - and the authorities can't touch him. Give him a diplomatic pouch with a blank sheet of paper in it and he's away laughing.


I don't think that they can just declare he has diplomatic status, as far as I know he needs to be presented to and be accepted by the host nation first. That will be quite hard since he'll be arrested as an absconder as soon as he leaves the embassy.

Gosling: I'm pretty sure that if the UK barges in and grabs him, the next thing that happens is Ecuador declaring war and not really giving a shiat what the odds are of them not getting blown to smithereens.


The UK police just barging in and grabbing him isn't going to happen anywhere outside of the wank fantasies of our dear, quotation mark abusing, subby.

If the UK were to withdraw consular status then that requires a decision by the secretary of state (which must be compliant with international law), then a statutory instrument needs to be drafted and submitted to parliament and would be subject to judicial review. Parliament then have at least 40 days to review and potentially annul it before it comes into force.

... only then can the UK government shoot Joss Ackland in the head.

intelligent comment below: VonEvilstein: Because left wing authoritarians never disappeared anyone. Ever.

There is no such thing as a liberal authoritarian, it is anathema to the left wing orthodoxy. You are thinking of military dictators who are right wing authoritarian.


Left Wing=/=Liberal and pretty much any orthodoxy is liable to authoritarianism.
 
2012-08-16 05:16:39 AM
Wow, Phil doesn't usually carry his "with my entire being, I loathe every molecule of everything and everyone American" nearly so far as this. Impressive. Tedious and embarrassing, but impressive.
 
2012-08-16 06:00:13 AM

You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: Left Wing=/=Liberal and pretty much any orthodoxy is liable to authoritarianism.



Every week I have to lecture another Farker. Tell me exactly what the term left wing means if it doesn't relate to liberalism?
 
2012-08-16 06:00:53 AM

VonEvilstein: intelligent comment below: VonEvilstein: Because left wing authoritarians never disappeared anyone. Ever.


There is no such thing as a liberal authoritarian, it is anathema to the left wing orthodoxy. You are thinking of military dictators who are right wing authoritarian.

Er, no. I am thinking about commies.



They were some pretty evil right wing military dictatorships, that's for sure.
 
2012-08-16 06:04:46 AM

that bosnian sniper: Protect that person from whom or what, exactly? Are you alleging sovereign states cannot protect their own operatives without a shroud of secrecy?


If you're providing support to someone on the downlow because that person doesn't want it known that you're working with them, then letting everyone know that you're working with them can hurt...

Let's think of an example....say Morgan Tsvangirai, the Zimbabwean Prime Minister and opposition to Robert Mugabe, in is in contact with the US government through diplomatic channels, and urges the US to continue economic sanctions to maintain pressure on the Mugabe government.... It's a good thing to help out a legitimate opposition party to Robert Mugabe in the hope that one day the democratic process might replace the dictator.

If Wikileaks were to expose those diplomatic cables with the urges to maintain sanctions (to the Guardian who published them), and outlined the relationship, this might undermine Tsangari and give Mugabe ammunition that the west is trying to control the future of the country, influence elections, bring back colonialism etc....thereby ruining the chance to do something good, ie using sanctions and supporting democratic process to peacefully oust an awful dictator that's torturing his own people through misrule.

Tsvangirai might not be your 'operative', but you sure want to keep the relationship under a shroud of secrecy...

Unless you're against the US supporting people like Tsvangirai, and keeping contacts with them confidential...

You could put pro-democracy activists in China, or Burma or North Korea in the same category...advice and support to these people shouldn't be given? You can't get them out of the country if they get arrested, but you can try and hide your support of them to avoid them getting arrested, or to make sure they don't get a charge of espionage tacked on for cooperating with a foreign power...or keep the fact that you're talking to them in the first place a secret so they don't attract attention.
 
2012-08-16 06:16:41 AM

DustBunny: If you're providing support to someone on the downlow because that person doesn't want it known that you're working with them, then letting everyone know that you're working with them can hurt...



So your argument is Wikileaks threatens this? That's a pretty big jump to conclusion. Example?
 
2012-08-16 06:24:25 AM
My thoughts:

I dislike Julian Assange because my brother is in the military; I really don't like the idea of people violating OpSec.

I think Julian Assange is an American hero, because he is employing the same free speech that my brother is in the military to protect, even at the price of security. (Yeah, I know, cognitive dissonance is fun; I've given up trying to resolve the two)

England needs to go DIAF; you eject the embassadors and give the people a chance to get out before you raid the embassy. Even fricking Iran and Syria know better.
 
2012-08-16 06:30:32 AM

intelligent comment below: So your argument is Wikileaks threatens this? That's a pretty big jump to conclusion. Example?


ummm...the rest of the post?

That wasn't actually a hypothetical, that was what happened. Morgan Tsvangirai is being investigated for treason by the Mugabe regime based on the Guardian article, and faces the death penalty, a great excuse to get rid of a thorn in their side...

Also, if you think that your relationship might be exposed by well meaning 'hacktivists', might you not want to work with the US?

Who knows how many pro-democracy activists are mentioned in the 250,000 diplomatic cables? How many severed their ties? How many never made those ties in the first place?

Who knows what the opportunity cost of pro-democracy activists not making contact with people who can help them etc is? Who knows how much it has damaged progress towards freedom in some of these states?
 
2012-08-16 06:36:50 AM

intelligent comment below: You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: Left Wing=/=Liberal and pretty much any orthodoxy is liable to authoritarianism.


Every week I have to lecture another Farker. Tell me exactly what the term left wing means if it doesn't relate to liberalism?


I never said Left wing didn't relate to liberalism, I said that it didn't equal liberalism. Before you start lecturing people you should probably try reading what they write.

Left wing ideology usually concerns itself with trying to form a more egalitarian society, liberalism a more generally free one. These goals often align, but not always; e.g. equal rights are seen as a key necessity by both philosophies. While the left often concerns itself with seeking more equal outcomes even at the expense of personal liberties, liberalism is more concerned with equality of opportunity.

The French revolutionaries were very much for egalitarianism but were not very liberal.
 
2012-08-16 06:42:10 AM

Peki: My thoughts:

I dislike Julian Assange because my brother is in the military; I really don't like the idea of people violating OpSec.

I think Julian Assange is an American hero
, because he is employing the same free speech that my brother is in the military to protect, even at the price of security. (Yeah, I know, cognitive dissonance is fun; I've given up trying to resolve the two)

England needs to go DIAF; you eject the embassadors and give the people a chance to get out before you raid the embassy. Even fricking Iran and Syria know better.


Wut.

/And the rest of your post: wut wut wut.
 
2012-08-16 06:54:20 AM

DustBunny: Stuff.


I'd say in that case, why do we need a man on the "inside" with whom to deal in secrecy? Sanctions don't come about in a vacuum, especially if the conditions which precipitate said sanctions continue. Why is there a need to interfere beyond refusing to deal with an oppressive regime, and exerting pressure for reform with transparency and accountability, in the first place? Especially when opposition such as Tsvangirai's operates openly? To do otherwise is simply to legitimize complaints against our government in the first place, publicized or not.

And, for each Tsvangirai how many Pinochets, Chamorros, Somozas, Marcos', Pahlavis, Diems, Rhees, Husseins, Noriegas, and Duvaliers need there be before we begin to understand secrecy in geopolitics -- especially US foreign policy -- is a bad thing? Hell, more recently, how many Niger yellowcake forgeries, or going back further Kuwait invasions[1], do we need?

[1] You're free to believe it or not, I don't care, but I know a guy who was a diplomatic attache to Kuwait prior to and during the Gulf War. Contrary to what Kuwait claimed and what we were told in the US, yes the GCC was intentionally shouldering Iraq out of the global oil market by breaking OPEC quotas (at the behest of the US government, no less), yes Kuwait was stiffing Iraq on money owed from the Iran-Iraq War, and yes Kuwait was slant-drilling into sovereign Iraqi territory. Kuwait was in every way the injuring party in that war, and Iraq was completely justified in invading to secure the Rumaila oil field. An oil field, which by amazing coincidence, was owned by British Petroleum until Hussein nationalized it. Just in case you're keeping track (and recognize the name Mohammad Mosaddegh).
 
2012-08-16 07:00:31 AM
Anyone who posts more than 10 times in this thread is now on a Government watch list.
 
2012-08-16 07:40:14 AM

intelligent comment below: VonEvilstein: Because left wing authoritarians never disappeared anyone. Ever.


There is no such thing as a liberal authoritarian, it is anathema to the left wing orthodoxy. You are thinking of military dictators who are right wing authoritarian.


Interesting idea. But unfortunately wrong in a million ways. Most American leftists don't see themselves as authoritarian, but they're mostly just unwitting neoliberals, unaware of any other possible ways of being and functionally unable to take any other path.
 
2012-08-16 07:48:29 AM
decision should be announced any minute now
 
2012-08-16 07:48:43 AM

that bosnian sniper: DustBunny: Stuff.

I'd say in that case, why do we need a man on the "inside" with whom to deal in secrecy? Sanctions don't come about in a vacuum, especially if the conditions which precipitate said sanctions continue. Why is there a need to interfere beyond refusing to deal with an oppressive regime, and exerting pressure for reform with transparency and accountability, in the first place? Especially when opposition such as Tsvangirai's operates openly? To do otherwise is simply to legitimize complaints against our government in the first place, publicized or not.

And, for each Tsvangirai how many Pinochets, Chamorros, Somozas, Marcos', Pahlavis, Diems, Rhees, Husseins, Noriegas, and Duvaliers need there be before we begin to understand secrecy in geopolitics -- especially US foreign policy -- is a bad thing? Hell, more recently, how many Niger yellowcake forgeries, or going back further Kuwait invasions[1], do we need?

[1] You're free to believe it or not, I don't care, but I know a guy who was a diplomatic attache to Kuwait prior to and during the Gulf War. Contrary to what Kuwait claimed and what we were told in the US, yes the GCC was intentionally shouldering Iraq out of the global oil market by breaking OPEC quotas (at the behest of the US government, no less), yes Kuwait was stiffing Iraq on money owed from the Iran-Iraq War, and yes Kuwait was slant-drilling into sovereign Iraqi territory. Kuwait was in every way the injuring party in that war, and Iraq was completely justified in invading to secure the Rumaila oil field. An oil field, which by amazing coincidence, was owned by British Petroleum until Hussein nationalized it. Just in case you're keeping track (and recognize the name Mohammad Mosaddegh).


That's awesome stuff.
Have you seen Robert Newman's History of Oil? It's excellent.
 
2012-08-16 07:52:25 AM
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/occupynewsnetwork

Oh boy..
 
2012-08-16 07:56:36 AM

that bosnian sniper: also stuff


You know what, I don't disagree with any of what you've said. I think there are valid points littering this thread.

What I think that they all prove is that the world is complex and that just dumping confidential communications on the internet doesn't always help...sometimes it does help, sometimes it hurts. Sometimes it exposes corruption, sometimes it compromises someone who's trying to help. Sometimes it blows the whistle on corporate malfeasance, sometimes it poisons ongoing investigations allowing companies to get away with stuff they shouldn't.

I stated earlier that I used to be a huge fan of wikileaks, and what they're trying to do, but the indiscriminate dumping of stuff as well as Assange's dickishness has turned me off them. If they were more considered in what they leaked, going for actual value and importance rather than just embarassment of governments, I would be cheering them along.

A large number of those diplomatic cables would've been declassified eventually anyway, as they were time sensitive rather than properly sensitive. All they did releasing them was damage relationships by exposing details that just embarrassed and annoyed for no good reason other than childish delight at getting one over on 'the man'.

As I also said earlier, a lot of the diplomatic cables that were released were opinions and unconfirmed information from local diplomats being cabled back to the state department where they would be used as part of a wider analysis.

This info could be inaccurate, could be hearsay, could be conjecture, could be solid gold juicy facts outlining government misconduct or it could be just gossip. It's just plain irresponsible to assume that everything published is true and correct or to at least present it as such without the right context.
 
2012-08-16 08:05:45 AM
Ever notice how all of this persecution of him only lends credibility to the leaks? Yeah, we're about that smart.
 
2012-08-16 08:07:27 AM
So did the Brits snatch him?
 
2012-08-16 08:09:13 AM

that bosnian sniper: You're free to believe it or not


Oh, and I do believe that, absolutely.

I also recall reading somewhere that Saddam told the US ambassador to Kuwait (i think) that they were going to invade and was told that the US didn't really care...this obviously turned out to be, well, not true...
 
2012-08-16 08:09:42 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: So did the Brits snatch him?


no

annoucement any minute now as to whether Ecaudor will grant him assylum
 
2012-08-16 08:11:01 AM

Dracolich: Ever notice how all of this persecution of him only lends credibility to the leaks? Yeah, we're about that smart.


The leaks stand on their own as documents.
The methodology of obtaining the leaks was illegal, especially in the case of Bradley Manning, ans as such, they aren't really "leaks" by any reasonable definition. The classified documents were stolen and Assange probably encouraged, enabled, and helped Manning steal them. That puts him in a different category of idiot. That said, Assange might just have herpes or something and doesn't want to be held liable for the unprotected sex. He's a eurotrash playboy.
 
2012-08-16 08:12:01 AM

ontariolightning: HotIgneous Intruder: So did the Brits snatch him?

no

annoucement any minute now as to whether Ecaudor will grant him assylum


NYTimes reported about 10 hours ago that Ecuador was allowing him to stay, FWIW.
 
2012-08-16 08:12:22 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Dracolich: Ever notice how all of this persecution of him only lends credibility to the leaks? Yeah, we're about that smart.

The leaks stand on their own as documents.
The methodology of obtaining the leaks was illegal, especially in the case of Bradley Manning, ans as such, they aren't really "leaks" by any reasonable definition. The classified documents were stolen and Assange probably encouraged, enabled, and helped Manning steal them. That puts him in a different category of idiot. That said, Assange might just have herpes or something and doesn't want to be held liable for the unprotected sex. He's a eurotrash playboy.


except hes australian, not european
 
2012-08-16 08:13:15 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: ontariolightning: HotIgneous Intruder: So did the Brits snatch him?

no

annoucement any minute now as to whether Ecaudor will grant him assylum

NYTimes reported about 10 hours ago that Ecuador was allowing him to stay, FWIW.


to stay in their embassy while they make the annoucement
 
2012-08-16 08:15:47 AM

ontariolightning: HotIgneous Intruder: Dracolich: Ever notice how all of this persecution of him only lends credibility to the leaks? Yeah, we're about that smart.

The leaks stand on their own as documents.
The methodology of obtaining the leaks was illegal, especially in the case of Bradley Manning, ans as such, they aren't really "leaks" by any reasonable definition. The classified documents were stolen and Assange probably encouraged, enabled, and helped Manning steal them. That puts him in a different category of idiot. That said, Assange might just have herpes or something and doesn't want to be held liable for the unprotected sex. He's a eurotrash playboy.

except hes australian, not european


Not relevant. Anyone can assume a eurotrash posture.
 
2012-08-16 08:18:00 AM

DustBunny: that bosnian sniper: You're free to believe it or not

Oh, and I do believe that, absolutely.

I also recall reading somewhere that Saddam told the US ambassador to Kuwait (i think) that they were going to invade and was told that the US didn't really care...this obviously turned out to be, well, not true...


The ambassador probably believed that was the case at the time, before the Saudis pooped their pants and got Bush I on the phone and jacked him up.
 
2012-08-16 08:18:31 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Not relevant. Anyone can assume a eurotrash posture.


But only you can spew vomit from a keyboard.
 
2012-08-16 08:19:07 AM
Ecuadorian FM now making a statement:

http://rt.com/on-air/
 
2012-08-16 08:21:02 AM
Also live on BBC. Ecuador schooling UK in UN and Vienna treaties.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19281396
 
2012-08-16 08:22:24 AM
He's going to hand around.
Hilarious article HERE.
snip:
The WikiLeaks founder sleeps on an air mattress in a small office that has been converted to a bedroom, according to accounts of those who have visited him. He has access to a computer, and continues to oversee WikiLeaks, his lieutenants have said. Reporters outside the building have seen food being delivered from nearby restaurants.

His presence is a challenge for employees of the embassy. One British government official, citing a conversation with a member of the embassy staff, said that the situation was surreal.


Hilarious. And all over a couple of women and maybe some herpies.
 
2012-08-16 08:24:23 AM

Magruda: HotIgneous Intruder: Not relevant. Anyone can assume a eurotrash posture.

But only you can spew vomit from a keyboard.


Take it as you must. It's easy to stamp your feet and disagree when confronted by facts in the real adult world. But your opinion won't alter the nature of the realities here.
 
2012-08-16 08:24:45 AM
Sounds like they're gonna give it to him - asylum, that is.
 
2012-08-16 08:26:26 AM
All you farkers jumped on the BBC feed and sent me into buffering hell. Curse you, Fark!
 
2012-08-16 08:26:56 AM
Assange was just granted assylum by Ecuador.

Your move U.K.
 
2012-08-16 08:28:08 AM
In honor of Julian Assange, here's Rick James with Give it to Me, Baby.
Nice soundtrack for a playboy gone wrong.
 
2012-08-16 08:29:08 AM

ontariolightning: Assange was just granted assylum by Ecuador.

Your move U.K.


/Cue the SAS helicopters in 3, 2, 1 ...
 
2012-08-16 08:30:07 AM
bbc is showing it live and cnn showing commercials

think we all know which channel is the real news channel
 
2012-08-16 08:30:45 AM
Now to see how they get him out...
 
2012-08-16 08:31:09 AM

ontariolightning: bbc is showing it live and cnn showing commercials

think we all know which channel is the real news channel


CNN hasn't been a news channel in years, at least a decade.
 
2012-08-16 08:31:22 AM
The real issue here is the serious implication that if my government gets its way here then it's a slippery slope. Russia claims that your embassy is spying and that an individual diplomat is responsible. Now they can take the British precedent and violate any such offending embassy.

I have no great love of Assange, and I understand the reasons behind the 1987 Act that gives my government the power (if you don't know, a policewoman, Yvonne Fletcher, was shot and killed by a gunman in the Libyan embassy in 1986. Because of the diplomatic immunity granted to the embassy the police were unable to go in and arrest the person responsible).

However, the charge against Assange is nowhere near that level of seriousness and I think I have to side with Ecuador, much like pretty much every other one of my compatriots that I've heard today (apart from the government spokespersons, of course).
 
2012-08-16 08:31:35 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Take it as you must. It's easy to stamp your feet and disagree when confronted by facts in the real adult world. But your opinion won't alter the nature of the realities here.


Oh really?

HotIgneous Intruder: The classified documents were stolen and Assange probably encouraged, enabled, and helped Manning steal them. That puts him in a different category of idiot. That said, Assange might just have herpes or something and doesn't want to be held liable for the unprotected sex


Are you using some obscure definition of the word "fact" that i'm not aware of?
 
2012-08-16 08:33:22 AM
haha fark you obama no assange trial for you
you have no batman to ilegally extradite assange
 
2012-08-16 08:33:33 AM

Magruda: HotIgneous Intruder: Take it as you must. It's easy to stamp your feet and disagree when confronted by facts in the real adult world. But your opinion won't alter the nature of the realities here.

Oh really?

HotIgneous Intruder: The classified documents were stolen and Assange probably encouraged, enabled, and helped Manning steal them. That puts him in a different category of idiot. That said, Assange might just have herpes or something and doesn't want to be held liable for the unprotected sex

Are you using some obscure definition of the word "fact" that i'm not aware of?


You know as much as I do about this man and why he's fighting so hard against such a trivial legal problem. To claim otherwise is to be a liar. Facts are painful things.
 
2012-08-16 08:35:39 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: ontariolightning: bbc is showing it live and cnn showing commercials

think we all know which channel is the real news channel

CNN hasn't been a news channel in years, at least a decade.


theyre talking american politics with stephen baldwin lolz
pathetic
 
2012-08-16 08:38:26 AM
Granted asylum! Now it's gonna get interesting!
 
2012-08-16 08:38:27 AM
Political asylum officially granted!
 
2012-08-16 08:39:28 AM

skodabunny: However, the charge against Assange is nowhere near that level of seriousness


Yeah. This guy is a a douchebag of global magnitude.
He needs to man up and go face his accusers. This hiding like a rat business for months and years on end is getting really old and paints an ugly picture of this man's true character.
He could be a heroic martyr for sunshine and democracy and openness, but he's gone to ground like a rodent.
 
2012-08-16 08:40:31 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: To claim otherwise is to be a liar. Facts are painful things.


Again, you havn't actually given us any "facts" have you? Tell us again what probably happend and what you think might be going on.
 
2012-08-16 08:41:03 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: skodabunny: However, the charge against Assange is nowhere near that level of seriousness

Yeah. This guy is a a douchebag of global magnitude.
He needs to man up and go face his accusers. This hiding like a rat business for months and years on end is getting really old and paints an ugly picture of this man's true character.
He could be a heroic martyr for sunshine and democracy and openness, but he's gone to ground like a rodent.


his accusers weren't raped. they even admitted so
stop your lies
 
2012-08-16 08:41:38 AM

Magruda: HotIgneous Intruder: To claim otherwise is to be a liar. Facts are painful things.

Again, you havn't actually given us any "facts" have you? Tell us again what probably happend and what you think might be going on.


Now you're trolling.
 
2012-08-16 08:42:29 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: skodabunny: However, the charge against Assange is nowhere near that level of seriousness

Yeah. This guy is a a douchebag of global magnitude.
He needs to man up and go face his accusers. This hiding like a rat business for months and years on end is getting really old and paints an ugly picture of this man's true character.
He could be a heroic martyr for sunshine and democracy and openness, but he's gone to ground like a rodent.


I don't really understand your point in relation to that (somewhat selective) quote. I have you flagged as a troll though, so this might explain it. And now you're invisible!
 
2012-08-16 08:42:35 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: skodabunny: However, the charge against Assange is nowhere near that level of seriousness

Yeah. This guy is a a douchebag of global magnitude.
He needs to man up and go face his accusers. This hiding like a rat business for months and years on end is getting really old and paints an ugly picture of this man's true character.
He could be a heroic martyr for sunshine and democracy and openness, but he's gone to ground like a rodent.


Oh for fark's sake.

Look. The case against the guy was dropped. Both by the original accusers, and by the prosecution.

It was then picked up later for no damn good reason.

He has a legitimate fear that he will be handed over to the USA extralegally, and given the reprehensible behavior of the American government recently (See also the Megaupload raids), I would call that a very legitimate fear.

"Manning up (heh) and facing your accusers" doesn't really help much when your accusers will lock you up and torture you to set an example.

Good on Ecuador.
 
2012-08-16 08:42:36 AM

TsukasaK: Political asylum officially granted!


Took forever to get to it! They had a half hour of "fark you, UK" before the final announcement.
 
2012-08-16 08:43:34 AM

ontariolightning: his accusers weren't raped. they even admitted so
stop your lies


The legal issues here, ALL OF THEM, are based on Swedish authorities wanting to question him regarding and incident of a sexual nature in Sweden. Full stop.
Now he's just showboating for the conspiracy heads.
Stop white knighting an attention whoring douchebag.
 
2012-08-16 08:44:10 AM
Here's what will probably happen: Ecuador decides not to give him asylum. Three months from now, in a totally unrelated matter, Britian announces a grant of $1 billion for Ecuador foreign aid.
 
2012-08-16 08:44:27 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: The legal issues here, ALL OF THEM, are based on Swedish authorities wanting to question him regarding and incident of a sexual nature in Sweden.


If you believe that's all that would happen the moment he steps out of that embassy, you're a f*cking moron.
 
2012-08-16 08:45:02 AM

Cat Food Sandwiches: Here's what will probably happen: Ecuador decides not to give him asylum. Three months from now, in a totally unrelated matter, Britian announces a grant of $1 billion for Ecuador foreign aid.


Asylum already granted - watch the livestream.
 
2012-08-16 08:46:53 AM
Reuters: Britain says asylum won't matter, won't matter, won't matter.
 
2012-08-16 08:47:22 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: ontariolightning: his accusers weren't raped. they even admitted so
stop your lies

The legal issues here, ALL OF THEM, are based on Swedish authorities wanting to question him regarding and incident of a sexual nature in Sweden. Full stop.
Now he's just showboating for the conspiracy heads.
Stop white knighting an attention whoring douchebag.


why hasnt swedish authorities went to him then?
would cost them less eh?
 
2012-08-16 08:47:36 AM
i79.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-16 08:48:18 AM

stuartp9: TsukasaK: Political asylum officially granted!

Took forever to get to it! They had a half hour of "fark you, UK" before the final announcement.


That was brilliant, really enjoyed the long list of international Acts preserving immunity, followed by a quick, "so we are granting him asylum." Absolutely the right decision given the implications of what my government is attempting.

Now it gets interesting as he's gonna find it tricky getting out of the UK *rubs hands with glee*
 
2012-08-16 08:48:19 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Now you're trolling


You give yourself away. Into the ignore bucket with you.
 
2012-08-16 08:52:30 AM

skodabunny: stuartp9: TsukasaK: Political asylum officially granted!

Took forever to get to it! They had a half hour of "fark you, UK" before the final announcement.

That was brilliant, really enjoyed the long list of international Acts preserving immunity, followed by a quick, "so we are granting him asylum." Absolutely the right decision given the implications of what my government is attempting.

Now it gets interesting as he's gonna find it tricky getting out of the UK *rubs hands with glee*


they gotta sneak him out

maybe put him in a crate or trash bin or something
 
2012-08-16 08:53:12 AM

TsukasaK: HotIgneous Intruder: The legal issues here, ALL OF THEM, are based on Swedish authorities wanting to question him regarding and incident of a sexual nature in Sweden.

If you believe that's all that would happen the moment he steps out of that embassy, you're a f*cking moron.


That's all that's happening here. Of course he's going to get tried for espionage along with Bradley Manning eventually, but that's beside the point. If Assange went ahead and played the game, he'd bring more people to his cause as a persecuted person than hiding like a rat.
He hasn't got the balls to stand up and be a genuine hero and that makes him a sad character.
 
2012-08-16 08:54:31 AM

Magruda: HotIgneous Intruder: Now you're trolling

You give yourself away. Into the ignore bucket with you.


It's hard to argue honestly when you've already made up your mind.

/Ignored over an ASSANGE thread? That's amazingly cowardly.
 
2012-08-16 08:55:52 AM
Julian Assange is now the David Koresh of London.
RIP, dude.
 
2012-08-16 08:56:09 AM

ontariolightning: maybe put him in a crate or trash bin or something


Tri-ox compound maybe?

"Paging Dr McCoy... Dr McCoy to the Ecuadorian embassy please."
 
2012-08-16 08:57:45 AM
 
2012-08-16 08:57:59 AM
Perhaps an exotic South American poison that slows down his metabolism and makes him appear dead.
 
2012-08-16 08:58:44 AM
Ecuador should arrest the people inside it's British Embassy as soon as the breech begins. Then, prisoner exchange.
 
2012-08-16 08:58:54 AM

Carth: US is hinting it could end the trade benefits program with Ecuador


Uncle Sugar gonna put the hammer down on the Axis of Bananas.

/Time to get out of this country.
 
2012-08-16 09:00:58 AM

ontariolightning: Assange was just granted assylum by Ecuador.

Your move U.K.


They still have to move him through Brittish airspace or land to get him to Ecuador. I sat take em if they ever try to move him. And deny any helicopter or plane access to UK airspace if they try to move him by air. Or jus shoot him down.
 
2012-08-16 09:05:57 AM

FlyingLizardOfDoom: ontariolightning: Assange was just granted assylum by Ecuador.

Your move U.K.

They still have to move him through Brittish airspace or land to get him to Ecuador. I sat take em if they ever try to move him. And deny any helicopter or plane access to UK airspace if they try to move him by air. Or jus shoot him down.


then mercosur should take the falkland islands
 
2012-08-16 09:12:12 AM
Now Assange can play out his self-fulfilling prophesies as some kind of persecuted hero figure, one man against empire, etc. His hubris knows no bounds.
 
2012-08-16 09:14:37 AM
Now we'll see whose lapdog Britain really is.
 
2012-08-16 09:29:46 AM

intelligent comment below: VonEvilstein: intelligent comment below: VonEvilstein: Because left wing authoritarians never disappeared anyone. Ever.


There is no such thing as a liberal authoritarian, it is anathema to the left wing orthodoxy. You are thinking of military dictators who are right wing authoritarian.

Er, no. I am thinking about commies.


They were some pretty evil right wing military dictatorships, that's for sure.


Your reimagining of the left-right spectra is even less useful than the degrees of authoritarianism thing libertarians use. That's acctually a lite impressive.
 
2012-08-16 09:32:43 AM

TsukasaK:


Doesn't need to be legendary.
 
2012-08-16 09:37:27 AM

JAYoung: If the UK wants to expose its embassy personnel worldwide to the same sort of action, they're welcome to set a precedent.


You mean their private citizens, which is far worse.
 
2012-08-16 09:48:40 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Of course he's going to get tried for espionage along with Bradley Manning eventually, but that's beside the point.


No, no no no. That is the entire point. I'd bet fairly good money that if Sweden could guarantee they wouldn't extradite Assange to the USA (there's a sealed indictment against him), that he'd have gone and handled this already.

As far as I'm concerned, he's looking out for his own best interests.
 
2012-08-16 09:51:17 AM
Actually scratch that, he still would have to worry about extralegal measures taken by the USA to get him no matter where he is. Megaupload precedent and all that. If the feds have decided international laws don't matter for a f*cking copyright case, how much more so for espionage?

And in the case of a person, following the law doesn't make you noble or moral, it merely makes you obedient. You'd do well to remember that.
 
2012-08-16 09:55:50 AM
And ANOTHER thing. The key word here is "suspect". We live in 2012: if you want to question a suspect you don't have to have him in your jurisdiction to do so. If you don't want to interview him in the embassy or by phone, you obviously don't care. If he doesn't want to talk, that's within his rights, and a refusal to come to your country should be interpreted as such.

The only reasons you would want a suspect extradited to your country are: to press charges and make an arrest, to torture, to make a media scene, or to 'punish' someone by detaining them even though you can't make the case stick.

The only acceptable reason is the first one, in which case you should press charges before extradition.
 
2012-08-16 10:55:04 AM

Magruda: SpaceButler: So to get to the truth, you have to ignore the context?

If you want truth take a philosophy class. Journalism is about facts.


So, facts aren't true? I see.
 
2012-08-16 11:40:20 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Phil Moskowitz: If an embassy isn't respected as foreign territory then why would you allow a foreign incursion onto "your" land? That's an act of war.

Ecuador is free to bring the hurt.

/Bwah-hahahahahaha.


So, your loyalty is to whoever has the most power and right versus wrong or rule of law are not so important? I hate that I have to share a planet with people like you, frankly.
 
2012-08-16 11:51:08 AM

SpaceButler: Magruda: SpaceButler: So to get to the truth, you have to ignore the context?

If you want truth take a philosophy class. Journalism is about facts.

So, facts aren't true? I see.


No, facts aren't truth.You can speak truthfully and still be wrong. You really do need to take a philosophy class. BTW, it's a take on an Indiana Jones quote.

Unbunch your panties.
 
t8p
2012-08-16 12:04:39 PM
I've never understood the "Assange put lives at risk" line of reasoning. We don't say that about identifying serial killers do we? Rape victims identifying their rapist surely puts their life at risk but we don't seem to mind. In the case of rape the person is even required to put their name on a list to aid in identifying them and singling them out. In all these cases the crime was done long ago, and uncovering it doesn't constitute as the point at which lives were put at risk, they were put at risk by the policy. actions, and behaviour leading up to the truth coming out.
 
2012-08-16 12:35:35 PM

Esc7: Just listening to everyone spout off ideas about diplomatic immunity, special forces commando raids, international laws and repercussions has finally convinced me that this is all definitely only about sexual misconduct in Sweden.

Right.


DING DING DING DING DING

Yes, this is ALL about questioning a guy over a rape charge.

Questioning.

If anyone had any doubts about what the end plans for Assange were, just take a look at this.
 
2012-08-16 01:06:47 PM

intelligent comment below: Skyrmion: In fact, no crime is required. The government can hold them forever regardless. [link]


That law is still up for debate, and has only been applied to terror suspects.


Yup, suspects. And the law isn't on hold or anything, it's actively being applied.
 
2012-08-16 01:13:51 PM
Over that Julian Assange hand!
 
2012-08-16 02:46:04 PM

DustBunny: You know what, I don't disagree with any of what you've said. I think there are valid points littering this thread...


The core issue here, at least to me, is that transparency is the first, best line of defense a citizenship has to ensure their government is acting ethically, and in their best interests in the long and short term. Without transparency there is no accountability, and without accountability governments inevitably become highly corrupt, cease to operate in their citizenship's best interests and lose legitimacy. Need I seriously provide examples of this phenomenon?

Look at, as I alluded to earlier, US foreign policy during the Cold War. How many of those geopolitical moves, had the US been transparent and honest to the American people about its dealings abroad, would have passed the smell test let alone been palatable as foreign policy? To that question I'd add, how many of those policy decisions that resulted in immense blowback years or decades later could have been averted through simple transparency?

I'd argue, a great deal -- the vast majority, if not all of them.

What we're seeing through the Assange affair -- and the detention of Bradley Manning, pertinent to the US and since the two go hand-in-hand -- is a concerted effort to reduce overall transparency by governments. That's a rather distressing precedent, and the continuance of a very slippery slope. That's evident enough when examining the early facts of the rape allegations and investigation[1], as I posted earlier -- it's an attempt at character assassination, and to silence Wikileaks, rather than a serious attempt to exact justice. That cannot, and should not, be tolerated by a populace that demands accountability and honesty from its government, and claims to respect the rule of law.

Of course, it also needs be restated that prior to the rape allegations and issuance of the EAW against Assange, that Wikileaks was vetting the contents of the cables to prevent releasing anything that could prove a danger to life or well-being, and releasing information that would not in a timely manner. The wholesale dump did not occur until after the rape affair began, which leads me to personally believe that was being withheld as Assange's insurance policy against attempted suppression and his nuclear option should an attempt to silence him be taken.

[1] That is not, and should not be construed in any way, as rape apology for victim-blaming. The women did collude, did change their stories, didn't even seek rape prosecution from the onset, and the allegations were initially dismissed as lacking prosecutorial merit before the investigation was reopened under very dicey circumstances complete with more and greater severity charges than were initially pressed. Rape is a terrible crime, should be illegal and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law -- but not used as means to a political end, as that trivializes the seriousness and impact of rape and does naught but harm women and women's rights as a whole.
 
2012-08-16 03:29:49 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Hilarious. And all over a couple of women and maybe some herpies.


Yeah it's obviously not about that.
You're either a liar or a retard.
 
2012-08-16 03:59:35 PM

Bungles: Esc7: HotIgneous Intruder: Bungles: Especially given he should, you know, have gone to the Australian embassy. Then the situation would be different.

Yeah. He would be turned over to the US nearly instantly.

Truth. The USA exerts a gravitational field over nearly all english speaking/ NATO countries.

Seriously it is looking like Assange is going to have live the rest of his days out in unfriendly banana republics or the bad boys club(totalitarian antagonist states), like they would ever take him in.

The guy is plain farked. more as a future message to anyone who dares republish American data on the internet.


Then why does the UK, the most Englishy of all English-speaking countries, have no intention or plans to hand him over to the US?


They're still not over the butthurt of Tony Blair (and by extension the UK) being Bush's lapdog.
 
2012-08-16 04:06:37 PM

Magruda: You can speak truthfully and still be wrong.


Yes, but that's because in that phrase, "truthfully" is an adverb describing the manner in which someone is speaking, not the content of their speech; it is specifically a statement on whether or not the person believes that the things he/she is saying are true. One can't speak truth and still be wrong, by definition.

Magruda: Unbunch your panties.


But I like them this way! It makes me feel funny when I walk around.

/Sorry, it's been ages since I saw the Indiana Jones movies.
 
2012-08-16 05:19:36 PM
I want the whole farking world to be watching how this plays out. I want everyone to see and remember exactly when and where the powers that be showed their hand. If Assange disappears, I want the world to catch fire. This is big. Bigger than whatever petty political bullshiat we have going on over here in the States.
 
2012-08-16 06:20:01 PM

You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: Left wing ideology usually concerns itself with trying to form a more egalitarian society,



Nothing says "egalitarian" like a police state with no freedoms and a ruling party. Sounds legit
 
2012-08-16 06:21:29 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: when confronted by facts in the real adult world



Nothing says "facts" and "real world" by accusing someone of being "eurotrash"

Keep preaching the derp. You fit in well on Fark
 
2012-08-16 06:23:03 PM

Skyrmion: intelligent comment below: Skyrmion: In fact, no crime is required. The government can hold them forever regardless. [link]


That law is still up for debate, and has only been applied to terror suspects.

Yup, suspects. And the law isn't on hold or anything, it's actively being applied.



You might want to, you know, actually read the article you linked everyone to. Then put your foot in your mouth
 
2012-08-16 07:59:26 PM

intelligent comment below: HotIgneous Intruder: when confronted by facts in the real adult world


Nothing says "facts" and "real world" by accusing someone of being "eurotrash"

Keep preaching the derp. You fit in well on Fark


I lived in Europe for eight years, so I know a little bit about eurotrash.

I'm kind of amazed, but not really, at the ferocity of the pseudo-liberal white knighting of this a-hole. I think most of you don't even realize you live in a world that doesn't play by the rules set by the USA and hasn't been indoctrinated into the "innocent until processed by the 'justice' system" propaganda.
Spies kill people, mostly indirectly.

It's also pretty funny to me that I get marked as a troll and ignored merely based on expressing my opinions like anybody else. But children hate to have their bubbles burst, eh? Indeed.
Grow up and smell the coffee and you'll understand that these evil governments represent us in our true psychological forms, en masse. They are us and they act for the good of the group. It's amazing seeing the faux liberal derp. Now I understand why Mamet became a conservative.

/Lifelong democratic voter and voted for Obiwanfartbama last time. Never again.
 
2012-08-16 08:03:22 PM

RulerOfNone: I want the whole farking world to be watching how this plays out. I want everyone to see and remember exactly when and where the powers that be showed their hand. If Assange disappears, I want the world to catch fire. This is big. Bigger than whatever petty political bullshiat we have going on over here in the States.


OH yeah. You're putting those countries ON NOTICE.
You're putting them on BURN NOTICE.

wow. The derp, it sizzles when it hits the charcoal.
 
2012-08-16 08:13:59 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: I'm kind of amazed, but not really, at the ferocity of the pseudo-liberal white knighting of this a-hole



Probably because sane people view him as doing the same service as Daniel Ellsberg


HotIgneous Intruder: I think most of you don't even realize you live in a world that doesn't play by the rules set by the USA and hasn't been indoctrinated into the "innocent until processed by the 'justice' system" propaganda.
Spies kill people, mostly indirectly.


and that has what to do with wikileaks?

And no, spies don't go around killing people, you watch too many movies

HotIgneous Intruder: It's also pretty funny to me that I get marked as a troll and ignored merely based on expressing my opinions like anybody else. But children hate to have their bubbles burst, eh? Indeed.



You get marked as a troll because of your ignorant uninformed and ridiculous comments that add nothing to the discussion

HotIgneous Intruder: Grow up and smell the coffee and you'll understand that these evil governments represent us in our true psychological forms, en masse. They are us and they act for the good of the group. It's amazing seeing the faux liberal derp. Now I understand why Mamet became a conservative.



Stop using the word derp when you keep spewing it. Governments hiding secrets from everyone are not "representing us" they are doing the exact opposite

HotIgneous Intruder: /Lifelong democratic voter and voted for Obiwanfartbama last time. Never again.


That's my favorite line right behind "I have a lot of black friends, but..."
 
2012-08-16 08:16:42 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: They are us and they act for the good of the group.



And one last thing, besides the obvious hiding secrets and making deals with evil people. When they do these actions as shown in wikileaks they act in the interest of the few, the wealthy, the corporations, the military, that isn't acting for "us" and "for the good of the group"

You're a pathetic military shill who my guess is stationed overseas at one of the bases spread out in the name of socialism for the US military. No wonder you hate this guy with all your heart and go on and on about the great good done for "us" by the government

Go choke on your own sensationalist circle jerk nonsense
 
2012-08-16 08:28:12 PM

TsukasaK: Actually scratch that, he still would have to worry about extralegal measures taken by the USA to get him no matter where he is. Megaupload precedent and all that. If the feds have decided international laws don't matter for a f*cking copyright case, how much more so for espionage?

And in the case of a person, following the law doesn't make you noble or moral, it merely makes you obedient. You'd do well to remember that.


Be careful that you aren't assuming that something to the US 5th Amendment applies in Sweden. They may not have the same rules regarding refusing to answer questions. I don't know. Do you?
 
2012-08-16 08:30:25 PM
The question should not be about Assange or even Wikileaks.

The question should be whether news organizations should only release what the Government tells them to or should they be trying to actually do their job.
 
2012-08-16 08:57:40 PM

intelligent comment below: HotIgneous Intruder: They are us and they act for the good of the group.


And one last thing, besides the obvious hiding secrets and making deals with evil people. When they do these actions as shown in wikileaks they act in the interest of the few, the wealthy, the corporations, the military, that isn't acting for "us" and "for the good of the group"

You're a pathetic military shill who my guess is stationed overseas at one of the bases spread out in the name of socialism for the US military. No wonder you hate this guy with all your heart and go on and on about the great good done for "us" by the government

Go choke on your own sensationalist circle jerk nonsense


Wow. Such venom directed at little old me. Unfortunately, your assessment is almost completely wrong.
I self-identified as a liberal until I realized that philosophy is nothing but a rhetorical masturbation society.
I suggest you read this essay by David Mamet. Maybe you'll consider exactly what it is you're attacking when you lash out at me. All I do is represent ideas; you're the open-minded liberal who brought the machete out to use on me in this thread.
I often wonder why neoliberals are such violent people. Obama provides an answer if you examine his policies. Of course, Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II are equally revealing.
Read that essay. I promise you that you won't be sorry.
 
2012-08-16 09:08:58 PM

mrshowrules: The question should not be about Assange or even Wikileaks.

The question should be whether news organizations should only release what the Government tells them to or should they be trying to actually do their job.


The corporate media, particularly the Washington Villiage press corps, had been a stenographic pool for decades. It was so bad when I worked there, 2000 to 2004, that I had to get out. It made me feel dirty with a dirt I couldn't wash off. It got worse after 9/11.
 
2012-08-17 12:40:42 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: I self-identified as a liberal until I realized that philosophy is nothing but a rhetorical masturbation society.



Cool story bro. You're just so much smarter than everyone else.

HotIgneous Intruder: you're the open-minded liberal who brought the machete out to use on me in this thread.



Yeah poor old you, blow back from calling Assange a rapist and not a journalist


HotIgneous Intruder: I suggest you read this essay by David Mamet.



Because I really care what a liberal arts major who supported Sarah Palin has to say about politics and reality.

HotIgneous Intruder: I often wonder why neoliberals are such violent people. Obama provides an answer if you examine his policies. Of course, Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II are equally revealing.



Obama is violent because his administration is tough on terrorism?

And yeah but claiming the Bush's were "neoliberal" just isn't going to fly.


HotIgneous Intruder: Read that essay. I promise you that you won't be sorry.



Your world gets turned upside down from uneducated hacks? You probably also listen to Rush Limbaugh

You were never a liberal, you just play one on the internet. If your world can be blown away from such mindless writing then you're a phony. You fit right in with the conservative neo Christian American military though. They love people like you. And they love rapists too. So you have more in common with Julian than you think
 
2012-08-19 10:16:49 AM
Esc7
Just listening to everyone spout off ideas about diplomatic immunity, special forces commando raids, international laws and repercussions has finally convinced me that this is all definitely only about sexual misconduct in Sweden.

Right.


This.
 
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