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(BBC)   UK to Ecuadoran embassy: "Either hand over Julian Assange or we'll go in there and get him ourselves." Ecuador: "Uhm, we are not a British colony." UK: "WHARRGARBL"   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 456
    More: Interesting, Julian Assange, Ecuadoran, Knightsbridge, foreign office, submarine communications cable, Ecuador, WikiLeaks  
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4967 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Aug 2012 at 8:56 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-16 08:42:29 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: skodabunny: However, the charge against Assange is nowhere near that level of seriousness

Yeah. This guy is a a douchebag of global magnitude.
He needs to man up and go face his accusers. This hiding like a rat business for months and years on end is getting really old and paints an ugly picture of this man's true character.
He could be a heroic martyr for sunshine and democracy and openness, but he's gone to ground like a rodent.


I don't really understand your point in relation to that (somewhat selective) quote. I have you flagged as a troll though, so this might explain it. And now you're invisible!
 
2012-08-16 08:42:35 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: skodabunny: However, the charge against Assange is nowhere near that level of seriousness

Yeah. This guy is a a douchebag of global magnitude.
He needs to man up and go face his accusers. This hiding like a rat business for months and years on end is getting really old and paints an ugly picture of this man's true character.
He could be a heroic martyr for sunshine and democracy and openness, but he's gone to ground like a rodent.


Oh for fark's sake.

Look. The case against the guy was dropped. Both by the original accusers, and by the prosecution.

It was then picked up later for no damn good reason.

He has a legitimate fear that he will be handed over to the USA extralegally, and given the reprehensible behavior of the American government recently (See also the Megaupload raids), I would call that a very legitimate fear.

"Manning up (heh) and facing your accusers" doesn't really help much when your accusers will lock you up and torture you to set an example.

Good on Ecuador.
 
2012-08-16 08:42:36 AM  

TsukasaK: Political asylum officially granted!


Took forever to get to it! They had a half hour of "fark you, UK" before the final announcement.
 
2012-08-16 08:43:34 AM  

ontariolightning: his accusers weren't raped. they even admitted so
stop your lies


The legal issues here, ALL OF THEM, are based on Swedish authorities wanting to question him regarding and incident of a sexual nature in Sweden. Full stop.
Now he's just showboating for the conspiracy heads.
Stop white knighting an attention whoring douchebag.
 
2012-08-16 08:44:10 AM  
Here's what will probably happen: Ecuador decides not to give him asylum. Three months from now, in a totally unrelated matter, Britian announces a grant of $1 billion for Ecuador foreign aid.
 
2012-08-16 08:44:27 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: The legal issues here, ALL OF THEM, are based on Swedish authorities wanting to question him regarding and incident of a sexual nature in Sweden.


If you believe that's all that would happen the moment he steps out of that embassy, you're a f*cking moron.
 
2012-08-16 08:45:02 AM  

Cat Food Sandwiches: Here's what will probably happen: Ecuador decides not to give him asylum. Three months from now, in a totally unrelated matter, Britian announces a grant of $1 billion for Ecuador foreign aid.


Asylum already granted - watch the livestream.
 
2012-08-16 08:46:53 AM  
Reuters: Britain says asylum won't matter, won't matter, won't matter.
 
2012-08-16 08:47:22 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: ontariolightning: his accusers weren't raped. they even admitted so
stop your lies

The legal issues here, ALL OF THEM, are based on Swedish authorities wanting to question him regarding and incident of a sexual nature in Sweden. Full stop.
Now he's just showboating for the conspiracy heads.
Stop white knighting an attention whoring douchebag.


why hasnt swedish authorities went to him then?
would cost them less eh?
 
2012-08-16 08:47:36 AM  
i79.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-16 08:48:18 AM  

stuartp9: TsukasaK: Political asylum officially granted!

Took forever to get to it! They had a half hour of "fark you, UK" before the final announcement.


That was brilliant, really enjoyed the long list of international Acts preserving immunity, followed by a quick, "so we are granting him asylum." Absolutely the right decision given the implications of what my government is attempting.

Now it gets interesting as he's gonna find it tricky getting out of the UK *rubs hands with glee*
 
2012-08-16 08:48:19 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Now you're trolling


You give yourself away. Into the ignore bucket with you.
 
2012-08-16 08:52:30 AM  

skodabunny: stuartp9: TsukasaK: Political asylum officially granted!

Took forever to get to it! They had a half hour of "fark you, UK" before the final announcement.

That was brilliant, really enjoyed the long list of international Acts preserving immunity, followed by a quick, "so we are granting him asylum." Absolutely the right decision given the implications of what my government is attempting.

Now it gets interesting as he's gonna find it tricky getting out of the UK *rubs hands with glee*


they gotta sneak him out

maybe put him in a crate or trash bin or something
 
2012-08-16 08:53:12 AM  

TsukasaK: HotIgneous Intruder: The legal issues here, ALL OF THEM, are based on Swedish authorities wanting to question him regarding and incident of a sexual nature in Sweden.

If you believe that's all that would happen the moment he steps out of that embassy, you're a f*cking moron.


That's all that's happening here. Of course he's going to get tried for espionage along with Bradley Manning eventually, but that's beside the point. If Assange went ahead and played the game, he'd bring more people to his cause as a persecuted person than hiding like a rat.
He hasn't got the balls to stand up and be a genuine hero and that makes him a sad character.
 
2012-08-16 08:54:31 AM  

Magruda: HotIgneous Intruder: Now you're trolling

You give yourself away. Into the ignore bucket with you.


It's hard to argue honestly when you've already made up your mind.

/Ignored over an ASSANGE thread? That's amazingly cowardly.
 
2012-08-16 08:55:52 AM  
Julian Assange is now the David Koresh of London.
RIP, dude.
 
2012-08-16 08:56:09 AM  

ontariolightning: maybe put him in a crate or trash bin or something


Tri-ox compound maybe?

"Paging Dr McCoy... Dr McCoy to the Ecuadorian embassy please."
 
2012-08-16 08:57:45 AM  
 
2012-08-16 08:57:59 AM  
Perhaps an exotic South American poison that slows down his metabolism and makes him appear dead.
 
2012-08-16 08:58:44 AM  
Ecuador should arrest the people inside it's British Embassy as soon as the breech begins. Then, prisoner exchange.
 
2012-08-16 08:58:54 AM  

Carth: US is hinting it could end the trade benefits program with Ecuador


Uncle Sugar gonna put the hammer down on the Axis of Bananas.

/Time to get out of this country.
 
2012-08-16 09:00:58 AM  

ontariolightning: Assange was just granted assylum by Ecuador.

Your move U.K.


They still have to move him through Brittish airspace or land to get him to Ecuador. I sat take em if they ever try to move him. And deny any helicopter or plane access to UK airspace if they try to move him by air. Or jus shoot him down.
 
2012-08-16 09:05:57 AM  

FlyingLizardOfDoom: ontariolightning: Assange was just granted assylum by Ecuador.

Your move U.K.

They still have to move him through Brittish airspace or land to get him to Ecuador. I sat take em if they ever try to move him. And deny any helicopter or plane access to UK airspace if they try to move him by air. Or jus shoot him down.


then mercosur should take the falkland islands
 
2012-08-16 09:12:12 AM  
Now Assange can play out his self-fulfilling prophesies as some kind of persecuted hero figure, one man against empire, etc. His hubris knows no bounds.
 
2012-08-16 09:14:37 AM  
Now we'll see whose lapdog Britain really is.
 
2012-08-16 09:29:46 AM  

intelligent comment below: VonEvilstein: intelligent comment below: VonEvilstein: Because left wing authoritarians never disappeared anyone. Ever.


There is no such thing as a liberal authoritarian, it is anathema to the left wing orthodoxy. You are thinking of military dictators who are right wing authoritarian.

Er, no. I am thinking about commies.


They were some pretty evil right wing military dictatorships, that's for sure.


Your reimagining of the left-right spectra is even less useful than the degrees of authoritarianism thing libertarians use. That's acctually a lite impressive.
 
2012-08-16 09:32:43 AM  

TsukasaK:


Doesn't need to be legendary.
 
2012-08-16 09:37:27 AM  

JAYoung: If the UK wants to expose its embassy personnel worldwide to the same sort of action, they're welcome to set a precedent.


You mean their private citizens, which is far worse.
 
2012-08-16 09:48:40 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Of course he's going to get tried for espionage along with Bradley Manning eventually, but that's beside the point.


No, no no no. That is the entire point. I'd bet fairly good money that if Sweden could guarantee they wouldn't extradite Assange to the USA (there's a sealed indictment against him), that he'd have gone and handled this already.

As far as I'm concerned, he's looking out for his own best interests.
 
2012-08-16 09:51:17 AM  
Actually scratch that, he still would have to worry about extralegal measures taken by the USA to get him no matter where he is. Megaupload precedent and all that. If the feds have decided international laws don't matter for a f*cking copyright case, how much more so for espionage?

And in the case of a person, following the law doesn't make you noble or moral, it merely makes you obedient. You'd do well to remember that.
 
2012-08-16 09:55:50 AM  
And ANOTHER thing. The key word here is "suspect". We live in 2012: if you want to question a suspect you don't have to have him in your jurisdiction to do so. If you don't want to interview him in the embassy or by phone, you obviously don't care. If he doesn't want to talk, that's within his rights, and a refusal to come to your country should be interpreted as such.

The only reasons you would want a suspect extradited to your country are: to press charges and make an arrest, to torture, to make a media scene, or to 'punish' someone by detaining them even though you can't make the case stick.

The only acceptable reason is the first one, in which case you should press charges before extradition.
 
2012-08-16 10:55:04 AM  

Magruda: SpaceButler: So to get to the truth, you have to ignore the context?

If you want truth take a philosophy class. Journalism is about facts.


So, facts aren't true? I see.
 
2012-08-16 11:40:20 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Phil Moskowitz: If an embassy isn't respected as foreign territory then why would you allow a foreign incursion onto "your" land? That's an act of war.

Ecuador is free to bring the hurt.

/Bwah-hahahahahaha.


So, your loyalty is to whoever has the most power and right versus wrong or rule of law are not so important? I hate that I have to share a planet with people like you, frankly.
 
2012-08-16 11:51:08 AM  

SpaceButler: Magruda: SpaceButler: So to get to the truth, you have to ignore the context?

If you want truth take a philosophy class. Journalism is about facts.

So, facts aren't true? I see.


No, facts aren't truth.You can speak truthfully and still be wrong. You really do need to take a philosophy class. BTW, it's a take on an Indiana Jones quote.

Unbunch your panties.
 
t8p
2012-08-16 12:04:39 PM  
I've never understood the "Assange put lives at risk" line of reasoning. We don't say that about identifying serial killers do we? Rape victims identifying their rapist surely puts their life at risk but we don't seem to mind. In the case of rape the person is even required to put their name on a list to aid in identifying them and singling them out. In all these cases the crime was done long ago, and uncovering it doesn't constitute as the point at which lives were put at risk, they were put at risk by the policy. actions, and behaviour leading up to the truth coming out.
 
2012-08-16 12:35:35 PM  

Esc7: Just listening to everyone spout off ideas about diplomatic immunity, special forces commando raids, international laws and repercussions has finally convinced me that this is all definitely only about sexual misconduct in Sweden.

Right.


DING DING DING DING DING

Yes, this is ALL about questioning a guy over a rape charge.

Questioning.

If anyone had any doubts about what the end plans for Assange were, just take a look at this.
 
2012-08-16 01:06:47 PM  

intelligent comment below: Skyrmion: In fact, no crime is required. The government can hold them forever regardless. [link]


That law is still up for debate, and has only been applied to terror suspects.


Yup, suspects. And the law isn't on hold or anything, it's actively being applied.
 
2012-08-16 01:13:51 PM  
Over that Julian Assange hand!
 
2012-08-16 02:46:04 PM  

DustBunny: You know what, I don't disagree with any of what you've said. I think there are valid points littering this thread...


The core issue here, at least to me, is that transparency is the first, best line of defense a citizenship has to ensure their government is acting ethically, and in their best interests in the long and short term. Without transparency there is no accountability, and without accountability governments inevitably become highly corrupt, cease to operate in their citizenship's best interests and lose legitimacy. Need I seriously provide examples of this phenomenon?

Look at, as I alluded to earlier, US foreign policy during the Cold War. How many of those geopolitical moves, had the US been transparent and honest to the American people about its dealings abroad, would have passed the smell test let alone been palatable as foreign policy? To that question I'd add, how many of those policy decisions that resulted in immense blowback years or decades later could have been averted through simple transparency?

I'd argue, a great deal -- the vast majority, if not all of them.

What we're seeing through the Assange affair -- and the detention of Bradley Manning, pertinent to the US and since the two go hand-in-hand -- is a concerted effort to reduce overall transparency by governments. That's a rather distressing precedent, and the continuance of a very slippery slope. That's evident enough when examining the early facts of the rape allegations and investigation[1], as I posted earlier -- it's an attempt at character assassination, and to silence Wikileaks, rather than a serious attempt to exact justice. That cannot, and should not, be tolerated by a populace that demands accountability and honesty from its government, and claims to respect the rule of law.

Of course, it also needs be restated that prior to the rape allegations and issuance of the EAW against Assange, that Wikileaks was vetting the contents of the cables to prevent releasing anything that could prove a danger to life or well-being, and releasing information that would not in a timely manner. The wholesale dump did not occur until after the rape affair began, which leads me to personally believe that was being withheld as Assange's insurance policy against attempted suppression and his nuclear option should an attempt to silence him be taken.

[1] That is not, and should not be construed in any way, as rape apology for victim-blaming. The women did collude, did change their stories, didn't even seek rape prosecution from the onset, and the allegations were initially dismissed as lacking prosecutorial merit before the investigation was reopened under very dicey circumstances complete with more and greater severity charges than were initially pressed. Rape is a terrible crime, should be illegal and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law -- but not used as means to a political end, as that trivializes the seriousness and impact of rape and does naught but harm women and women's rights as a whole.
 
2012-08-16 03:29:49 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Hilarious. And all over a couple of women and maybe some herpies.


Yeah it's obviously not about that.
You're either a liar or a retard.
 
2012-08-16 03:59:35 PM  

Bungles: Esc7: HotIgneous Intruder: Bungles: Especially given he should, you know, have gone to the Australian embassy. Then the situation would be different.

Yeah. He would be turned over to the US nearly instantly.

Truth. The USA exerts a gravitational field over nearly all english speaking/ NATO countries.

Seriously it is looking like Assange is going to have live the rest of his days out in unfriendly banana republics or the bad boys club(totalitarian antagonist states), like they would ever take him in.

The guy is plain farked. more as a future message to anyone who dares republish American data on the internet.


Then why does the UK, the most Englishy of all English-speaking countries, have no intention or plans to hand him over to the US?


They're still not over the butthurt of Tony Blair (and by extension the UK) being Bush's lapdog.
 
2012-08-16 04:06:37 PM  

Magruda: You can speak truthfully and still be wrong.


Yes, but that's because in that phrase, "truthfully" is an adverb describing the manner in which someone is speaking, not the content of their speech; it is specifically a statement on whether or not the person believes that the things he/she is saying are true. One can't speak truth and still be wrong, by definition.

Magruda: Unbunch your panties.


But I like them this way! It makes me feel funny when I walk around.

/Sorry, it's been ages since I saw the Indiana Jones movies.
 
2012-08-16 05:19:36 PM  
I want the whole farking world to be watching how this plays out. I want everyone to see and remember exactly when and where the powers that be showed their hand. If Assange disappears, I want the world to catch fire. This is big. Bigger than whatever petty political bullshiat we have going on over here in the States.
 
2012-08-16 06:20:01 PM  

You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: Left wing ideology usually concerns itself with trying to form a more egalitarian society,



Nothing says "egalitarian" like a police state with no freedoms and a ruling party. Sounds legit
 
2012-08-16 06:21:29 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: when confronted by facts in the real adult world



Nothing says "facts" and "real world" by accusing someone of being "eurotrash"

Keep preaching the derp. You fit in well on Fark
 
2012-08-16 06:23:03 PM  

Skyrmion: intelligent comment below: Skyrmion: In fact, no crime is required. The government can hold them forever regardless. [link]


That law is still up for debate, and has only been applied to terror suspects.

Yup, suspects. And the law isn't on hold or anything, it's actively being applied.



You might want to, you know, actually read the article you linked everyone to. Then put your foot in your mouth
 
2012-08-16 07:59:26 PM  

intelligent comment below: HotIgneous Intruder: when confronted by facts in the real adult world


Nothing says "facts" and "real world" by accusing someone of being "eurotrash"

Keep preaching the derp. You fit in well on Fark


I lived in Europe for eight years, so I know a little bit about eurotrash.

I'm kind of amazed, but not really, at the ferocity of the pseudo-liberal white knighting of this a-hole. I think most of you don't even realize you live in a world that doesn't play by the rules set by the USA and hasn't been indoctrinated into the "innocent until processed by the 'justice' system" propaganda.
Spies kill people, mostly indirectly.

It's also pretty funny to me that I get marked as a troll and ignored merely based on expressing my opinions like anybody else. But children hate to have their bubbles burst, eh? Indeed.
Grow up and smell the coffee and you'll understand that these evil governments represent us in our true psychological forms, en masse. They are us and they act for the good of the group. It's amazing seeing the faux liberal derp. Now I understand why Mamet became a conservative.

/Lifelong democratic voter and voted for Obiwanfartbama last time. Never again.
 
2012-08-16 08:03:22 PM  

RulerOfNone: I want the whole farking world to be watching how this plays out. I want everyone to see and remember exactly when and where the powers that be showed their hand. If Assange disappears, I want the world to catch fire. This is big. Bigger than whatever petty political bullshiat we have going on over here in the States.


OH yeah. You're putting those countries ON NOTICE.
You're putting them on BURN NOTICE.

wow. The derp, it sizzles when it hits the charcoal.
 
2012-08-16 08:13:59 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: I'm kind of amazed, but not really, at the ferocity of the pseudo-liberal white knighting of this a-hole



Probably because sane people view him as doing the same service as Daniel Ellsberg


HotIgneous Intruder: I think most of you don't even realize you live in a world that doesn't play by the rules set by the USA and hasn't been indoctrinated into the "innocent until processed by the 'justice' system" propaganda.
Spies kill people, mostly indirectly.


and that has what to do with wikileaks?

And no, spies don't go around killing people, you watch too many movies

HotIgneous Intruder: It's also pretty funny to me that I get marked as a troll and ignored merely based on expressing my opinions like anybody else. But children hate to have their bubbles burst, eh? Indeed.



You get marked as a troll because of your ignorant uninformed and ridiculous comments that add nothing to the discussion

HotIgneous Intruder: Grow up and smell the coffee and you'll understand that these evil governments represent us in our true psychological forms, en masse. They are us and they act for the good of the group. It's amazing seeing the faux liberal derp. Now I understand why Mamet became a conservative.



Stop using the word derp when you keep spewing it. Governments hiding secrets from everyone are not "representing us" they are doing the exact opposite

HotIgneous Intruder: /Lifelong democratic voter and voted for Obiwanfartbama last time. Never again.


That's my favorite line right behind "I have a lot of black friends, but..."
 
2012-08-16 08:16:42 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: They are us and they act for the good of the group.



And one last thing, besides the obvious hiding secrets and making deals with evil people. When they do these actions as shown in wikileaks they act in the interest of the few, the wealthy, the corporations, the military, that isn't acting for "us" and "for the good of the group"

You're a pathetic military shill who my guess is stationed overseas at one of the bases spread out in the name of socialism for the US military. No wonder you hate this guy with all your heart and go on and on about the great good done for "us" by the government

Go choke on your own sensationalist circle jerk nonsense
 
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