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(BBC)   Israel begins to Cheney-ize a war with Iran: "It will last a month and only kill 500 Israelis"   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 413
    More: Unlikely, Israelis, Iran, Maariv, military plans, Cold War, Shin Bet, CIA Director Leon Panetta, ballistic missiles  
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6435 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Aug 2012 at 6:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-16 03:30:43 AM

Serious Post on Serious Thread: Ah, the old "But we've killed less defense", always a classic.

You clearly missed the point of my entire Boobies. To be clear, I'm a recovering catholic/atheist, living in America and of mostly European decent. I live in NY, many friends and gf-s have been/are Jewish, not many muslims that I know of, but I don't really ask either. I really really don't give a fark over all about the mideast EXCEPT it keeps spilling over into my news cycles and economic well being and mental health.

It's just asinine.

Look, if I actually try and conjure some metaphor for what the hell is going on in the ME, it's like if after some farked up war where atheists were nearly exterminated, the world decided to carve out a chunk of Mississippi, displace the native inhabitants, and create a well armed Atheist state. It'd suck I guess, to be surrounded by red neck fundamentalists bent on killing you, and I'd want to defend myself by all means necessary. But if it kept dragging in the rest of the world mostly because there was a lot of oil there, and the ongoing schism was based on religion, I think I'd say 'fark it'. Either go nuclear or piss off.

And seriously, the ME crap is infinitely worse b/c it's based on thousands of years of BS religious infighting. I'm just tired of it, hearing about it, feeling shiatty it is happening as a human, knowing I play a part as an American who simultaneously feeds the death monster that ya'll created with my countryman and sending my tax dollars there to continue it and propping up fossil fuel scumbag corporations.

I know you really REALLY want this to be about the poor trod upon jews and the evil evil muslims, but I just don't care anymore. farking end it in holy Armageddon or STFU and act like decent humans.

/my guess, from your 'but they're worse' line of reasoning is GLASS PARKING LOT FTW



Take your meds bro
 
2012-08-16 03:32:04 AM

Captain_Ballbeard: Bucky Katt: It's getting hard to tell the trolls apart from the bigots.

The bigots tend to be pro-Apartheid. The white South African Govt couldn't find many friends as it clung to power in the 80s, Israel was happy to be a chum. Birds of a feather flocking or just Israel picking up some tips on race based partition and slow grinding genocide?



How can you practice apartheid on people who not only are not citizens of your country, but don't even live inside your borders?

I think you mean America and the British supported the apartheid South African government.
 
2012-08-16 03:47:39 AM

Elegy: I just don't see this (conventional war with Iran) happening, at least not with Israel as the initial aggressor: I think Israel is too aware of its own geographical disadvantage when it comes to conventional war.

Look at the country on the map - it's one long eastern front with the sea at your back. Lots of wide open desert, with nowhere to run or hide. A perforated border with the Palestinians, who will rise up and fight for the other guy at first chance. Not to mention that something like 80-90% of the Israeli population and industrial base is concentrated into only three cities - so there is no hope for sustained conflict on Israel's part, as those cities will be struck early.

Put simply, there is no way for Israel to win that war.



Tell that to Egypt, Jordan, and Syria.

/3 days.
 
2012-08-16 03:52:27 AM

She comes in colors everywhere: Elegy: I just don't see this (conventional war with Iran) happening, at least not with Israel as the initial aggressor: I think Israel is too aware of its own geographical disadvantage when it comes to conventional war.

Look at the country on the map - it's one long eastern front with the sea at your back. Lots of wide open desert, with nowhere to run or hide. A perforated border with the Palestinians, who will rise up and fight for the other guy at first chance. Not to mention that something like 80-90% of the Israeli population and industrial base is concentrated into only three cities - so there is no hope for sustained conflict on Israel's part, as those cities will be struck early.

Put simply, there is no way for Israel to win that war.



Tell that to Egypt, Jordan, and Syria.

/3 days.



and do you know who treats the Palestinians worse than Israel? All the surrounding countries. Iran funds Hezbollah who works in Lebanon. And Lebanon forbids Palestinians from everything including having a job.
 
2012-08-16 03:57:15 AM

Magnanimous_J: My prediction: WWIII kills a billion people.


While this is a terrible farking idea in all ways, it will in no way ignite WWIII.
 
2012-08-16 04:00:15 AM

BojanglesPaladin: WeenerGord: BojanglesPaladin: And THAT is where the phrase 'Centurion's choice' comes from.

LOL!

Sumbiatch! There's a whole BOOK about it!



Have you seen the sequel? 'Fifty Shades of Centurion's Choice'
 
2012-08-16 04:14:22 AM

intelligent comment below: Captain_Ballbeard: Bucky Katt: It's getting hard to tell the trolls apart from the bigots.

The bigots tend to be pro-Apartheid. The white South African Govt couldn't find many friends as it clung to power in the 80s, Israel was happy to be a chum. Birds of a feather flocking or just Israel picking up some tips on race based partition and slow grinding genocide?


How can you practice apartheid on people who not only are not citizens of your country, but don't even live inside your borders?

I think you mean America and the British supported the apartheid South African government.



[By 1987 Israel found itself alone among the developed nations in still maintaining strong, even strategic relations with apartheid South Africa.]
Link

You're either very ignorant or very dishonest.

Take your pick.
 
2012-08-16 04:15:34 AM

intelligent comment below: and do you know who treats the Palestinians worse than Israel? All the surrounding countries. Iran funds Hezbollah who works in Lebanon. And Lebanon forbids Palestinians from everything including having a job.


You know who else said, "Well, nobody else wants them, so let's genocide them." ?
 
2012-08-16 04:19:50 AM
Y'know, I don't doubt Israel's moxy (definitely not their chutzpah), but every time they wax bellicose, I tend to get an image of these guys in my head:

images1.wikia.nocookie.net

I really do wonder how tough they'd act if the big bad US of A weren't there to back them up.
 
2012-08-16 04:20:36 AM

Nem Wan: If you start a war, you're not the good guy.

 
2012-08-16 04:32:20 AM

Indubitably: Quit with the war and stuff, please.



Now tha's horrible.

You wanna end the war an stuff you gotta sing loud.
 
2012-08-16 04:47:07 AM
Knock yourselves out Zionists.

Maybe we will visit Jerusalem, the capital of New Palestine, in a few years.
 
2012-08-16 04:49:59 AM

intelligent comment below: Broad childish generalizations are fun


you'd know.
 
2012-08-16 04:54:06 AM

intelligent comment below: poor America out of it. Let them overthrow regimes and create puppet states and suck the dick of Saudi princes!


It wasn't dick sucking that we know of. Just kissing and hand holding and strolling past flowers.

my2bucks.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-08-16 05:00:23 AM
For fark's sake. Isreal STFU.
 
2012-08-16 05:01:54 AM

WeenerGord: Indubitably: Quit with the war and stuff, please.


Now tha's horrible.

You wanna end the war an stuff you gotta sing loud.


Too many people on the Group W bench.
 
2012-08-16 05:10:49 AM

Serious Post on Serious Thread: You clearly missed the point of my entire Boobies.



Don't sell yourself short. Your Boobies have some great points.
 
2012-08-16 05:24:00 AM

EbolaNYC: For fark's sake. Isreal STFU.


You really gotta wonder what they see for them to take this route of bellicosity and putting the USA on the spot. Awkward. But they gotta see something, and something big, to be doing this.

The whole formula in that region is crazy. An Assad can't put down some rebels in 18 months? That's an Assad family tradition there. That it's gone on for 18 months is crazy and doesn't bode well for whatever goes on in Syria even after Assad falls.

The Iran bone is connected to the Syria bone and the Syrian bone is connected to the Russian bone - one of Russia's most important ports is in Tartus, Putin ain't letting that go without a bit of trouble.

Egypt's massing troops in the Sinai.

And now Israel is running around trying to light the fuse? In a game of inches?

STFU indeed.
 
2012-08-16 05:39:46 AM

johnryan51: I really wonder how close they are to making the bomb?


Every first world power, think say Japan, is three months away from building a bomb, six if they don't have a running nuclear reactor. Put it this way, it took the US in the 1940's _three years_ to build a bomb from scratch. Personally I suspect that the Iranians don't particularly want to build a bomb, what they want is, a domestic source of enriched Uranium to use for conventional nuclear power, the ability to build a bomb in a couple of months if needed.
 
2012-08-16 06:03:47 AM

Captain_Ballbeard: [By 1987 Israel found itself alone among the developed nations in still maintaining strong, even strategic relations with apartheid South Africa.]
Link

You're either very ignorant or very dishonest.

Take your pick.



How convenient you take one sentence from the section about it cutting off ties
 
2012-08-16 06:04:33 AM

Captain_Ballbeard: You know who else said, "Well, nobody else wants them, so let's genocide them." ?



Israel commits genocide? Link? Palestinians are the fastest growing population group in the world.
 
2012-08-16 06:07:11 AM

Captain_Ballbeard: Egypt's massing troops in the Sinai.



Egypt is fighting Islamic militants in the Palestinian territories who killed over a dozen troops a few days ago. You have no knowledge of anything, either past or present, do you? Why do you still insist on commenting then?
 
2012-08-16 06:08:07 AM

gibbon1: johnryan51: I really wonder how close they are to making the bomb?

Every first world power, think say Japan, is three months away from building a bomb, six if they don't have a running nuclear reactor. Put it this way, it took the US in the 1940's _three years_ to build a bomb from scratch. Personally I suspect that the Iranians don't particularly want to build a bomb, what they want is, a domestic source of enriched Uranium to use for conventional nuclear power, the ability to build a bomb in a couple of months if needed.



Then why are they building plants that can enrich uranium to the level required to weaponize?
 
2012-08-16 06:20:46 AM

Hobodeluxe: mbillips: Shut up, subdumbass; nobody is talking about a Cheney-style invasion. Israel wants to do an air-to-ground war, a la US Air Force vs. Serbia, which involved how many US casualties? That's right, none.

Unlike Serbia, Iran has the capability to strike back. Do you think they will just lie there and take it?


Iran has a limited ability to strike back, which the Israelis can largely neutralize in a couple of days. Hezbollah launched thousands of rockets into Israel, and created relatively few casualties. Iran is much farther away, and has only a few dozen launch platforms (if that many) capable of hitting Israel, and no precision-guided missiles that can be aimed specifically at population targets.

Serbia had an air force, but they didn't dare try to put anything up, because it would just get shot down. Iran's in the same boat vis a vis Israel.

I'm not saying Israel SHOULD attack Iran; I think that's a terrible idea. But 500 Israeli casualties sounds about right, considering what Iran has available for retaliation.
 
2012-08-16 06:21:51 AM

RanDomino:
I know you won't watch this, or you don't care, or it's not really a problem, or some other bullshiat excuse; but, for the rest of you who have some shred of basic decency, here's an illustration of what life is like for thousands of Palestinians, and for hundreds of thousands more lesser only in immediacy. 


This again?

A terrible case of harrassment, and it ssems that the govt here did nothing to stop it, very farked up. But there are a couple of problems with your claim.

1- You have no proof life is like this for thousands of Palestenians.
2- You have no proof it is like this for hundreds of thousands more lesser only in immediacy.
3- You are so farked up you label this state-sponsored terrorism, and brush off all the suicide bombings, gunmen, etc from arabs in the area as "petty terrorism".

So yes it is wrong, it should be stopped, but you can't back up your claim on how widespread it is (and given HDI rates in Palestine it is doubtful), and your concern about how serious can't be taken with a straight face when you think it is less sever then suicide bombings, gunmen, etc.
 
2012-08-16 06:27:18 AM

randomjsa: cameroncrazy1984: This demonstrates a level of ignorance heretofore unknown to science.

Okay, since you're that stupid. I'll educate you.

Israel has an air force that, short of interference from the United States or one of the European countries, is going to decimate anything Iran puts in the sky in roughly five minutes. Complete and total air superiority will then systematically destroy every piece of war infrastructure that Iran has. At the end of 30 days Iran would be so crippled that it's ability to do anything more than stubbornly resist as best it can would be all it has left. Assuming it comes to a ground war, Israel has better... well... everything, but particularly tanks and some of the best tank crews in the world. A fight between Israel and Iran could only be more one sided if it as the United States instead of Israel fighting.

Oh and unlike the United States, Israel is probably not going to be nearly as friendly about its warfare. So keep that in mind.


Ground war. ::bangs head on desk:: Israel and Iran do not share a border. Neither has significant amphibious capability. Ground war is geographically and technologically off the table.
 
2012-08-16 07:25:18 AM

shkkmo: Thats really the thing I don't get about the whole "Invade Iran" thing: how can it possibly end in a good way?


A nuclear exchange that destroyed both Iran and Israel (or maybe a wider swath of the middle east in general) would save the rest of the world a lot of headaches - so thats a good ending.
 
2012-08-16 08:00:22 AM

mbillips: randomjsa: cameroncrazy1984: This demonstrates a level of ignorance heretofore unknown to science.

Okay, since you're that stupid. I'll educate you.

Israel has an air force that, short of interference from the United States or one of the European countries, is going to decimate anything Iran puts in the sky in roughly five minutes. Complete and total air superiority will then systematically destroy every piece of war infrastructure that Iran has. At the end of 30 days Iran would be so crippled that it's ability to do anything more than stubbornly resist as best it can would be all it has left. Assuming it comes to a ground war, Israel has better... well... everything, but particularly tanks and some of the best tank crews in the world. A fight between Israel and Iran could only be more one sided if it as the United States instead of Israel fighting.

Oh and unlike the United States, Israel is probably not going to be nearly as friendly about its warfare. So keep that in mind.

Ground war. ::bangs head on desk:: Israel and Iran do not share a border. Neither has significant amphibious capability. Ground war is geographically and technologically off the table.


LOL Yah, that was amusing.
 
2012-08-16 08:02:00 AM
Liberals hate Israel.

Gee, this is news on Fark.

You guys want Iran to get nukes and use them on Israel, because they are Jews and you don't like them. That is all this is.
 
2012-08-16 08:52:28 AM
Go to it, farkwads, see how that works out for you.

You guys want Iran to get nukes and use them on Israel, because they are Jews and you don't like them. That is all this is.

You belong in a mental institution.
 
2012-08-16 09:28:02 AM
Here's how this would go. The Israelis would utterly kick Iran's weakened by sanctions and decades of mismanagement ass. And THEN every Muslim country in the world would steamroll the Zionists into the sea. We'd say "Sorry, but we have our war over here, the one against people who actually attacked us so... good luck. This would cause instability in the US government leading to a dissolution of the democratic party. the rise of the fascist police state would come up, sending our stormtroopers into the middle east, bankrupting the country. Then the good part happens and people rise up against the neocons once and for all and re-establish a secular united states devoid of a conservative movement.

Oh, and millions of people die, maybe even a couple billion, and a major religion.

But at least we get rid of Fox News! So that's good, right?
 
2012-08-16 10:33:19 AM

Captain_Ballbeard: [www.bendib.com image 600x429]


Simps... I mean Nazis did it :

4.bp.blogspot.com

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-08-16 10:35:41 AM

Jake Havechek: Go to it, farkwads, see how that works out for you.

You guys want Iran to get nukes and use them on Israel, because they are Jews and you don't like them. That is all this is.

You belong in a mental institution.


Yet I am right, and you know it.
 
2012-08-16 01:29:26 PM
*still dry heaving from all the popcorn*
 
2012-08-16 02:37:16 PM

Thunderpipes: Jake Havechek: Go to it, farkwads, see how that works out for you.

You guys want Iran to get nukes and use them on Israel, because they are Jews and you don't like them. That is all this is.

You belong in a mental institution.

Yet I am right, and you know it.


Man, you really have your finger on the pulse of the liberal nation. I mean, with that deep insight that "all liberals want Iran to nuke Israel", I'm sure people line up around the block to have political discussions with you. So astute, so knowledgeable, and yet never a hit of hubris or hyperbole.

Truly you are a gentleman and a scholar
 
2012-08-16 03:23:56 PM
The regime once again declared on Wednesday that Israel will soon disappear from the map. At a meeting of the Iran-Iraq veterans, during Al-Quds day which is the official day of the year where the Iranian Government cheers for the destruction of Israel and having Muslims take over the land.

See, some people have labor day, some people have shark weeks, others have 'death to Israel' fridays.


Its quite puzzling that Israel might want to take steps to deter a country that continually supports terrorism against her and routinely announces its commitment to its destruction from getting nuclear weapons.
 
2012-08-16 03:45:48 PM

Tatsuma: The regime once again declared on Wednesday that Israel will soon disappear from the map. At a meeting of the Iran-Iraq veterans, during Al-Quds day which is the official day of the year where the Iranian Government cheers for the destruction of Israel and having Muslims take over the land.

See, some people have labor day, some people have shark weeks, others have 'death to Israel' fridays.


Its quite puzzling that Israel might want to take steps to deter a country that continually supports terrorism against her and routinely announces its commitment to its destruction from getting nuclear weapons.


Well, Tats, if you're cool with starting WWIII, then you and Israel can go right ahead, but fark you all if you want our help. I damn sure won't be over there fighting for you. Israel has been upping the ante in the inflammatory rhetoric, playing right into what Iran wants: an external enemy of another religion, backed by the "Great Satan." So congrats, Israel has fallen for a poorly veiled Iranian attempt to gin up support for a war to distract from crippling problems at home.
 
2012-08-16 04:34:10 PM

intelligent comment below: Serious Post on Serious Thread: Ah, the old "But we've killed less defense", always a classic.

You clearly missed the point of my entire Boobies. To be clear, I'm a recovering catholic/atheist, living in America and of mostly European decent. I live in NY, many friends and gf-s have been/are Jewish, not many muslims that I know of, but I don't really ask either. I really really don't give a fark over all about the mideast EXCEPT it keeps spilling over into my news cycles and economic well being and mental health.

It's just asinine.

Look, if I actually try and conjure some metaphor for what the hell is going on in the ME, it's like if after some farked up war where atheists were nearly exterminated, the world decided to carve out a chunk of Mississippi, displace the native inhabitants, and create a well armed Atheist state. It'd suck I guess, to be surrounded by red neck fundamentalists bent on killing you, and I'd want to defend myself by all means necessary. But if it kept dragging in the rest of the world mostly because there was a lot of oil there, and the ongoing schism was based on religion, I think I'd say 'fark it'. Either go nuclear or piss off.

And seriously, the ME crap is infinitely worse b/c it's based on thousands of years of BS religious infighting. I'm just tired of it, hearing about it, feeling shiatty it is happening as a human, knowing I play a part as an American who simultaneously feeds the death monster that ya'll created with my countryman and sending my tax dollars there to continue it and propping up fossil fuel scumbag corporations.

I know you really REALLY want this to be about the poor trod upon jews and the evil evil muslims, but I just don't care anymore. farking end it in holy Armageddon or STFU and act like decent humans.

/my guess, from your 'but they're worse' line of reasoning is GLASS PARKING LOT FTW


Take your meds bro


No , YOU take my meds. Bro.
 
2012-08-16 06:38:07 PM

Tatsuma: The regime once again declared on Wednesday that Israel will soon disappear from the map.


How many times has this been said over the past 45 years?

I'll wait.
 
2012-08-16 07:03:33 PM
thunderbird8804
9/11 had not a thing to do with Kissinger, or any previous administrations policies, it happened because Bin Laden and his goons are fanatically faithful, and thoroughly nihilistic.

They say they did it because of the US's support for Israel, stationing of troops in Saudi Arabia, and naval bombardment of Beirut = ignore what they say.

They say they want to kill all the Jews = everything they say is to be taken at face value.


Captain_Ballbeard
The bigots tend to be pro-Apartheid. The white South African Govt couldn't find many friends as it clung to power in the 80s, Israel was happy to be a chum. Birds of a feather flocking or just Israel picking up some tips on race based partition and slow grinding genocide?

South Africa's apartheid regime didn't fall until it became clear that it was on the losing end of wars and insurgencies, and Israel's won't either.


intelligent comment below
and do you know who treats the Palestinians worse than Israel? All the surrounding countries. Iran funds Hezbollah who works in Lebanon. And Lebanon forbids Palestinians from everything including having a job.

So how about Israel fulfills its obligations to international law and basic human decency and solves that problem by allowing Right of Return?

Israel commits genocide? Link? Palestinians are the fastest growing population group in the world.

You are really bad at this.


liam76
1- You have no proof life is like this for thousands of Palestenians.
2- You have no proof it is like this for hundreds of thousands more lesser only in immediacy.


Right-o, I'll try to find a video biography of every single Palestinian.

3- You are so farked up you label this state-sponsored terrorism, and brush off all the suicide bombings, gunmen, etc from arabs in the area as "petty terrorism".

This is being abetted by the Israeli army and the Israeli state by extension. None of those other things are (unless you admit Palestine is a State?).

So yes it is wrong, it should be stopped, but you can't back up your claim on how widespread it is (and given HDI rates in Palestine it is doubtful), and your concern about how serious can't be taken with a straight face when you think it is less sever then suicide bombings, gunmen, etc.

Daily humiliations versus occasional headline-grabbing events.
 
2012-08-16 07:41:08 PM

Thunderpipes: Liberals hate Israel.

Gee, this is news on Fark.

You guys want Iran to get nukes and use them on Israel, because they are Jews and you don't like them. That is all this is.



Liberal Jews are all over the world. You're an idiot
 
2012-08-16 07:43:05 PM

RanDomino: So how about Israel fulfills its obligations to international law and basic human decency and solves that problem by allowing Right of Return?

You are really bad at this.



Why doesn't America allow the right of return to all the Mexicans displaced from their homeland?
 
2012-08-16 08:18:39 PM
intelligent comment below
Why doesn't America allow the right of return to all the Mexicans displaced from their homeland?

That would also be good. America should square things up with the Indians and Mexicans. Israel should allow right of return for the same reasons.
 
2012-08-16 09:40:49 PM
Yeah!!!!

Tats is not dead!!!

This thread still sucks.

/needs more Roman necrophilia.
 
2012-08-16 10:01:21 PM

BojanglesPaladin: Yeah!!!!

Tats is not dead!!!

This thread still sucks.

/needs more Roman necrophilia.



If he were dead it might help with the necrophilia you desire.
 
2012-08-16 10:02:38 PM

RanDomino: That would also be good. America should square things up with the Indians and Mexicans. Israel should allow right of return for the same reasons.



Sounds good. You guys go ahead

Israel already accepted the right of return, there are over a million Arab's with Israeli citizenship. Oops look like they're far ahead of you.

Israel also accepted a 2 state solution when the UN accepted their statehood bid in 1947. Guess who didn't like that and declared war?
 
2012-08-17 01:29:24 AM
intelligent comment below
Israel already accepted the right of return

lulz
 
2012-08-17 01:30:32 AM
Israel also accepted a 2 state solution when the UN accepted their statehood bid in 1947. Guess who didn't like that and declared war?

Every single Palestinian alive today, apparently
 
2012-08-17 03:09:47 AM

intelligent comment below: RanDomino: That would also be good. America should square things up with the Indians and Mexicans. Israel should allow right of return for the same reasons.

Sounds good. You guys go ahead

Israel already accepted the right of return, there are over a million Arab's with Israeli citizenship. Oops look like they're far ahead of you.



Shiat there are way more than one million illegal mexicans in America and BoBama just instituted the Dream act to let them get citizenship but why am i wasting my time on a troll, that is the question
 
2012-08-17 09:23:11 AM

RanDomino: liam76
1- You have no proof life is like this for thousands of Palestenians.
2- You have no proof it is like this for hundreds of thousands more lesser only in immediacy.

Right-o, I'll try to find a video biography of every single Palestinian.


Didn't ask you to do that, what I do ask you to do is not pretend that every single family is just like this one with no evidence, and to stop igonrig actual studies on the quality of life for Palestinians.


RanDomino: 3- You are so farked up you label this state-sponsored terrorism, and brush off all the suicide bombings, gunmen, etc from arabs in the area as "petty terrorism".

This is being abetted by the Israeli army and the Israeli state by extension. None of those other things are (unless you admit Palestine is a State?).


The problem is you call it petty when people blow up jews, shoot at jews etc, but it is the end of the world when soldiers harass Palestenians. You have a very farked up double standard.


RanDomino: Daily humiliations versus occasional headline-grabbing events


You have no proof for the daily humiliations.

A checkpoint doesn't equal humiliation and the fact is there are a lot less of suicide bombings, gunmen attacking jews, etc (that you so casually dismiss as petty terrorism or "headline grabbing events").
 
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