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(Wired) NewsFlash US Air Force's X-51A Waverider Mach 5 test missile goes kablooey. Which can only mean one thing: Iran is years ahead of the US in photoshop expertise   (wired.com ) divider line
    More: NewsFlash, air forces, Iran, rocket booster, hypersonic flight, intercontinental ballistic missiles, missiles, hypersonic speeds  
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16812 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Aug 2012 at 3:01 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-08-15 03:03:26 PM  
Where's the ka-boom? There was supposed to be an earth shattering ka-boom!
 
2012-08-15 03:03:36 PM  
Damn! I was so looking forward to getting one for Christmas!
 
2012-08-15 03:03:47 PM  
Ooops
 
2012-08-15 03:04:07 PM  
Was it a gooey kablooey?

/Hamster Hughie
 
2012-08-15 03:05:05 PM  
That's great, can we quit wasting money on R&D now? We can blow anyone up at anytime, lets put that cash towards infrastructure, both roads and communications back home. Focusing on those two things will do far more damage towards our enemies than some super fast farking missile.
 
2012-08-15 03:05:10 PM  
"Where's the 'kaboom'? There was supposed to be an earth-shattering 'kaboom'! Oh, wait, there it is."
animated-gifs.org
 
2012-08-15 03:05:12 PM  
I thought it was supposed to go kablooey, since it wasn't equipped with a way to land, or something.
 
2012-08-15 03:05:15 PM  
This was for cruise missiles right?

Couldn't we have spent that money more wisely like going to Mars or something?
 
2012-08-15 03:06:16 PM  
Excuse me if I'm wrong but isn't it the whole purpose of a missile to blow up - and blow sh*t up with it?
 
2012-08-15 03:07:20 PM  

oldfarthenry: Excuse me if I'm wrong but isn't it the whole purpose of a missile to blow up - and blow sh*t up with it?


its gotta get there first in order to blow sh*t up
 
2012-08-15 03:07:24 PM  
Where's the - ...

probesport: Where's the ka-boom? There was supposed to be an earth shattering ka-boom!


...damn you!
 
2012-08-15 03:08:51 PM  
was that wrong? should I not have done that?
 
2012-08-15 03:08:54 PM  
X-51? His name is Aaron Stack.
 
2012-08-15 03:09:11 PM  

oldfarthenry: Excuse me if I'm wrong but isn't it the whole purpose of a missile to blow up - and blow sh*t up with it?


Premature exploderation?
 
2012-08-15 03:09:41 PM  
Meh, it's just a weapons platform. Don't we have enough ways to kill people at the moment?
 
2012-08-15 03:09:51 PM  

probesport: Where's the ka-boom? There was supposed to be an earth shattering ka-boom!


Oooooh it makes me so angry!
 
2012-08-15 03:10:02 PM  
This qualifies as a Fark alert?
 
2012-08-15 03:10:11 PM  

probesport: Where's the ka-boom? There was supposed to be an earth shattering ka-boom!


Crap!!
 
2012-08-15 03:10:32 PM  
SCRAM!
 
2012-08-15 03:11:53 PM  
Maybe they just want the world to THINK it failed.

/adjusts tin foil hat
 
2012-08-15 03:12:01 PM  

Highroller48: probesport: Where's the ka-boom? There was supposed to be an earth shattering ka-boom!

Crap!!


In my defence, I began writing my original post with zero comments showing. Not trying to rip you off, Probesport.
 
2012-08-15 03:12:35 PM  

Girion47: That's great, can we quit wasting money on R&D now? We can blow anyone up at anytime, lets put that cash towards infrastructure, both roads and communications back home. Focusing on those two things will do far more damage towards our enemies than some super fast farking missile.


Moron. Spending money on something other than defense contractors and tax cuts for rich people is socialism.
 
2012-08-15 03:13:12 PM  
I read it as "Mech" rather than "Mach" and got all excited.
 
2012-08-15 03:13:56 PM  
Didn't they say that this wasn't going to be used a weapons platform?
 
2012-08-15 03:15:23 PM  
tfwiki.net
Amateurs...
 
2012-08-15 03:15:36 PM  
Oh no, Chim-chim!
 
2012-08-15 03:15:54 PM  

amindtat: Maybe they just want the world to THINK it failed.

/adjusts tin foil hat


That WAS my first thought.

Of course, we hope to never have to find out.
 
2012-08-15 03:16:01 PM  

DeathCipris: Didn't they say that this wasn't going to be used a weapons platform?


Only if Jar-Jar Binks was giving a press release
 
2012-08-15 03:17:03 PM  
See what happens when you scrimp on your mohawk guy?

i49.tinypic.com
 
2012-08-15 03:17:15 PM  

DarnoKonrad: Meh, it's just a weapons platform. Don't we have enough ways to kill people at the moment?


Nope. We are always searching for quicker, more efficient ways to kill people.

onesidedconversations.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-08-15 03:17:19 PM  

Highroller48: Highroller48: probesport: Where's the ka-boom? There was supposed to be an earth shattering ka-boom!

Crap!!

In my defence, I began writing my original post with zero comments showing. Not trying to rip you off, Probesport.


Great minds, etc.
 
2012-08-15 03:17:39 PM  
300 Million seems reasonable to develop that kind of tech. didn't we fire like 300 tomahawks at over a million a pop into Baghdad in Gulf War I? developing cool new things is way better use of funds than actually using them.
 
2012-08-15 03:17:54 PM  

Girion47: That's great, can we quit wasting money on R&D now? We can blow anyone up at anytime, lets put that cash towards infrastructure, both roads and communications back home. Focusing on those two things will do far more damage towards our enemies than some super fast farking missile.


I agree completely. Can't we repurpose our military and train those guys to do road repair and other infrastructure items? One thing I never understood was that we spend so much stupid money on military and blowing things up yet those soliders can only do one thing and one thing only. I thought our new military was supposedly to be more agile and mobile and easily adaptable.

How about we take half our military budget, use that to train people in new tasks, put them into construction crews and start their march across the US?
 
2012-08-15 03:18:13 PM  
Why are we wasting money on a missile that can go Mach 5?
 
2012-08-15 03:18:48 PM  
Usually I would be commenting on the moronic engineers but in this case what they're trying to do is actually really hard and ventures into unexplored realms.
 
2012-08-15 03:19:31 PM  

DeathCipris: Didn't they say that this wasn't going to be used a weapons platform?


No, that is the NASA side of this project. X-43. Pretty much the same project but one is to make things go boom, the other just sometimes goes boom by accident.
 
2012-08-15 03:20:28 PM  

Mongo No.5: 300 Million seems reasonable to develop that kind of tech. didn't we fire like 300 tomahawks at over a million a pop into Baghdad in Gulf War I? developing cool new things is way better use of funds than actually using them.


We probably could have just thrown a couple million actual tomahawks at them for less money and be just as effective against their (sic) military.
 
2012-08-15 03:21:11 PM  

imnotadoctor: Why are we wasting money on a missile that can go Mach 5?


so we can kill people in huts faster. Plus its a great way to defend us against pissed off muslims who over take planes with box cutters. i heard mach 5 is the best way to defend against small knives.
 
2012-08-15 03:22:03 PM  
Yes, enemies are everywhere. Transfer pork to defense contractors, but socialized medicine is evil presumably because it includes mental healthcare which would be the Republicans' undoing.
 
2012-08-15 03:22:27 PM  
Wow. That was a pretty substantial rewrite of what I submitted. I just said it went *SPLASH* (apparently, the fins messed up before the scramjet even got a chance to fire up)

/stubmitter
//scientific progress goes *boink*
 
2012-08-15 03:22:33 PM  
Came for exploding Speed Racer, leaving disappointed.
 
2012-08-15 03:23:01 PM  

TheGhostofFarkPast: imnotadoctor: Why are we wasting money on a missile that can go Mach 5?

so we can kill people in huts faster. Plus its a great way to defend us against pissed off muslims who over take planes with box cutters. i heard mach 5 is the best way to defend against small knives.


That's Gillette's stance.
 
2012-08-15 03:23:06 PM  
It's not just about weapons, this technology could advance travel in general.
 
2012-08-15 03:25:10 PM  

vodka: It's not just about weapons, this technology could advance travel in general.


There really isn't any demand for hypersonic travel though. Otherwise the Concorde would have gotten a sequel.
 
2012-08-15 03:25:13 PM  

TheGhostofFarkPast: imnotadoctor: Why are we wasting money on a missile that can go Mach 5?

so we can kill people in huts faster. Plus its a great way to defend us against pissed off muslims who over take planes with box cutters. i heard mach 5 is the best way to defend against small knives.


Well,where else are we doing any hypersonic flight research? I'd like to fly to Japan someday and not have it take 15 hours.
 
2012-08-15 03:26:24 PM  

Loki009: DeathCipris: Didn't they say that this wasn't going to be used a weapons platform?

No, that is the NASA side of this project. X-43. Pretty much the same project but one is to make things go boom, the other just sometimes goes boom by accident.


Ah, gotcha.
 
2012-08-15 03:26:40 PM  

DarnoKonrad: Meh, it's just a weapons platform. Don't we have enough ways to kill people at the moment?


My parents (who used to be hippies in the 70s) are now extremely pro-military research (they like the internet). Whenever they see this, they chuckle and talk about how in the 70s, people were saying we should stop military funding because "we can blow up the Earth 17 times over. There isn't any need to fund the military anymore."
 
2012-08-15 03:27:11 PM  
Fastest waste of $140 million ever.
 
2012-08-15 03:28:05 PM  
It's nice, but $300 million sounds a little over-priced...

www.kidlantis.com
 
2012-08-15 03:28:49 PM  
At this rate we're never going to reach mach 25 without rockets.
 
2012-08-15 03:28:52 PM  

Girion47: vodka: It's not just about weapons, this technology could advance travel in general.

There really isn't any demand for hypersonic travel though. Otherwise the Concorde would have gotten a sequel.


The kind of people with technofetishes don't like reality. It's like a form of mental illusion, pretty pictures in magazines are more important than reality, but not everyone sees that illusion. But if they do, you can't tell them it's just an illusion.
 
2012-08-15 03:29:06 PM  

amindtat

Maybe they just want the world to THINK it failed.

/adjusts tin foil hat


ORRRR..Aliens. I mean, this isn't the only hypersonic thing that's failed recently. They "lost" a hypersonic missle not too long ago. Aliens are probably taking it to "check our levels" and in December of this year, they will show themselves.

/closes bomb shelter door.
 
2012-08-15 03:31:21 PM  
Actually, everyone involved is thrilled about the success of the testing.

The results were beyond expectation, so now it is time for it to drop out of public view and continue onward as a secret black-funds project.
 
2012-08-15 03:32:04 PM  
The military has driven technology as far back as the Roman Empire. The Roman road system, for example, was originally built for troop transport, but civilians were the ultimate beneficiaries. The same could be said about Eisenhower's interstate highway system, designed during the cold war.

Military R&D often leads to advancement in civilian applications.

For instance(past and current programs):
THE INTERNET (a great place to biatch about military spending)
space program (the first astronauts were launched on what were basically ICBM's)
GPS
jet aircraft
many medical advances
computers
semiconductors
chemicals needed to mass produce biofuels
potable, desalinated drinking water anywhere in the world
cheap way to manufacture titanium
nanotechnology
...and many, many more

But NO! fark all that shiat! The military is evil

/and yes, unfortunately, we always need new and better ways to kill people
 
2012-08-15 03:32:39 PM  

TofuTheAlmighty: Girion47: That's great, can we quit wasting money on R&D now? We can blow anyone up at anytime, lets put that cash towards infrastructure, both roads and communications back home. Focusing on those two things will do far more damage towards our enemies than some super fast farking missile.

Moron. Spending money on something other than defense contractors and tax cuts for rich people is socialism.


I asked my mom, who is really against welfare, what do people on welfare spend money on?

"Alcohol and cigarettes, and some food."
"Aren't most alcohol and cigarettes made here in the US?"
"Yes."
"What else do they spend money on. Rent?"
"Yes."
"Is that spent in the US?"
"Yes."
"What about utilities. Those are US utility companies too right?"
"Yes."
"OK. Now what about tax breaks for the wealthy? Isn't that welfare?"
"No."
"Couldn't you look at tax breaks for the wealthy as a subsidy to business owners, akin to welfare, where we are not taxing our rich enough in a time when we need revenues to close the deficit gap?"
"I suppose."
"And where are they reinvesting that money not collected?"
"Here, I suppose."
"But mostly global companies, China and India."
"Probably."
"So what's worse, giving government money to poor people who disproportionately spend the money on US goods and services, or not taking money from rich people who disproportionately spend the money on foreign investments?"

This is when she stopped talking.

For the record, I am in favor of getting rid of a lot of welfare spending over time (75% or so of it over 10-20 years) provided we replace the system with programs that encourage education, help people find jobs, and teach personal and financial responsibility. I am also in favor of getting rid of 75% of our defense spending over 10-20 years and similarly funding programs which move defense R&D money and technology into new business ventures.
 
MrT
2012-08-15 03:33:48 PM  

Girion47: There really isn't any demand for hypersonic travel though.


Air-breathing hypersonic engines would be very interesting as the first stage of a launch vehicle for getting things into orbit.
 
2012-08-15 03:34:23 PM  
snuff3r.com

Step it up, USAF.
 
2012-08-15 03:34:47 PM  

Obbi: Came for exploding Speed Racer, leaving disappointed.


Came in to say I blame Racer X.
i39.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-15 03:36:22 PM  

make me some tea: DarnoKonrad: Meh, it's just a weapons platform. Don't we have enough ways to kill people at the moment?

Nope. We are always searching for quicker, more efficient ways to kill people.

[onesidedconversations.files.wordpress.com image 320x240]


Especially ways that don't require us to have bases in foreign countries or ships in far-away oceans. The point of this is to have a cruise missile that can get from anywhere in the US to anywhere else on the planet in 2 hours or less.

Then we can blow up baby-milk factories the next time the President gets a beej from a fat intern, no matter where they are.
 
2012-08-15 03:37:21 PM  
i.imgur.com

You are not ready.
 
2012-08-15 03:42:18 PM  
The failure also has serious implications for the military's "prompt global strike" mission, which aims to use missiles with engines capable of hypersonic flight to wallop targets hundreds - even thousands - of miles away and do so within minutes.

And we wonder why the whole world is against us.
 
2012-08-15 03:42:55 PM  

MrT: Girion47: There really isn't any demand for hypersonic travel though.

Air-breathing hypersonic engines would be very interesting as the first stage of a launch vehicle for getting things into orbit.


Yep, all you have to carry on board is fuel, not the oxidizer. Saves a lot of weight.
 
2012-08-15 03:46:28 PM  
For those of you wondering why "Hyper Sonic" missiles are a priority in the face of all of our other societal problems when we already have "Super Sonic" missiles, the answer is simple. China already has "Hyper Sonic" missiles, now we need them too regardless of the cost.
 
2012-08-15 03:48:35 PM  

chixdiggit: Was it a gooey kablooey?

/Hamster Hughie


Spaceman Spiff agrees.

/Does a hamster hop
 
2012-08-15 03:48:50 PM  

Hobo Jr.: This was for cruise missiles right?

Couldn't we have spent that money more wisely like going to Mars or something?


When you strip down the size of your military to the point that we have, you have to rely on expensive weapons systems to maintain capability, or you lose the ability to project power. Some would argue we have no business projecting power in the first place, to them I point to the usual Hitler footage and Stalin footage and ask if that's what you really want running amok out of range of your stuff, thereby eventually forcing you into a massive and much more expensive military build up later to deal with the problem.

/yeah, I'd prefer to be going to to Mars too
//doesn't do us much good if there's no United States on Earth to come back to later
 
2012-08-15 03:51:42 PM  
www.sierrafoot.org

/eyeroll
 
2012-08-15 03:51:43 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Fastest waste of $140 million ever.


Doesn't sound like it was that fast.

Maybe they could transfer the program to NASA, and we could waste even more money on it.
 
2012-08-15 03:53:22 PM  
Nice of teh USAF to prove at least the the missile is definately not Scottish.
 
2012-08-15 03:53:37 PM  
It went so fast that it went back in time and should be hitting somewhere yesterday pretty soon.
 
2012-08-15 03:53:58 PM  

JackieRabbit: Damn! I was so looking forward to getting one for Christmas!


Why? Do you live in Iran?
 
2012-08-15 03:55:58 PM  

hdhale: When you strip down the size of your military to the point that we have,


And by that you mean, to the largest and most expensive on earth, right?
 
2012-08-15 03:56:03 PM  

TheGhostofFarkPast: imnotadoctor: Why are we wasting money on a missile that can go Mach 5?

so we can kill people in huts faster. Plus its a great way to defend us against pissed off muslims who over take planes with box cutters. i heard mach 5 is the best way to defend against small knives.


it was either that or teach every man woman and child in the USA for the same price how to defend themselves.
Hey... wait a minnit....
 
2012-08-15 03:59:41 PM  

imnotadoctor: Why are we wasting money on a missile that can go Mach 5?


So we can be the first ones to the scene of the accident
 
2012-08-15 04:01:39 PM  

SonOfSpam: /eyeroll


the X-15 was a rocket, the X-51 is a SCRAM jet

\eyeroll
 
2012-08-15 04:02:13 PM  

wraithmare: chixdiggit: Was it a gooey kablooey?

/Hamster Hughie

Spaceman Spiff agrees.

/Does a hamster hop


Beat me to it.
 
2012-08-15 04:02:45 PM  

imnotadoctor: Why are we wasting money on a missile that can go Mach 5?


It's a cost saving measure -- the one that went Mach 7 was too pricey.
 
2012-08-15 04:03:23 PM  
There may be a limit to the speed things are allowed to go, you know, at least while we are inside the atmosphere. Only one Earth-based vehicle has ever been Mach 5

2.bp.blogspot.com

That I am first is a disgrace to everyone else here on Fark.
 
2012-08-15 04:03:58 PM  

maniacbastard: the X-51 is a SCRAM jet pile of shiat on the ocean floor


FTFY
 
2012-08-15 04:05:00 PM  

imnotadoctor: Why are we wasting money on a missile that can go Mach 5?


Because we need to use it to stop the jet the terrorist are developing made of sand that goes Mach 4!!!! booga booga!!!!
 
2012-08-15 04:06:37 PM  
Why oh why would you turn a Gundam into a missile?
And besides, a wavedasher would be far better.
 
2012-08-15 04:07:05 PM  

groppet: imnotadoctor: Why are we wasting money on a missile that can go Mach 5?

Because we need to use it to stop the jet the terrorist are developing made of sand that goes Mach 4!!!! booga booga!!!!


...and fueled with Dirka Dirka Muhammad Jihad.
 
2012-08-15 04:08:03 PM  
Looks like I'm late to the thread, so I'll just toss a few things out there...

The point of this project is to have rapid global strike capability -without- the use of ICBMs. Rapid global strike allows the military to cut back on the REALLY expensive things like ships and long range bombers. Research here also has application towards civilian avionics as well, so yes, the R&D is worth it.
 
2012-08-15 04:09:07 PM  

imnotadoctor: Why are we wasting money on a missile that can go Mach 5?


War. Huh, yeah!

/What is it good for?
//Absolutely nothing.
///Say it again, y'all.
 
2012-08-15 04:10:14 PM  
I like the future transport application of this type of engine. However a vacuum tunnel/mag lev train combo would be more awesomer
 
2012-08-15 04:12:47 PM  

The Bestest: Looks like I'm late to the thread, so I'll just toss a few things out there...

The point of this project is to have rapid global strike capability -without- the use of ICBMs. Rapid global strike allows the military to cut back on the REALLY expensive things like ships and long range bombers. Research here also has application towards civilian avionics as well, so yes, the R&D is worth it.


Here's a plan: set up a front company to sell AK rounds filled with high-explosive rather than smokeless powder in the areas prone to terrorism. See what kind of chamber pressure those old Soviet AKs or home-made Khyber Pass guns can handle during "training". ;-) The problem should solve itself in a few weeks, and cheaply.
 
2012-08-15 04:13:14 PM  

The Bestest: Research here also has application towards civilian avionics as well, so yes, the R&D is worth it.


Wait. Is this the good government spending that Ryan likes, or the bad type that he doesn't? And will all of the folks in "the industry" be claiming that they can do it better than the government can? After making use of the initial government R&D, anyway?
 
2012-08-15 04:14:05 PM  

h4b1t: I like the future transport application of this type of engine. However a vacuum tunnel/mag lev train combo would be more awesomer


Sure, until it "derailed" and created a fireball like a small nuclear weapon.
 
2012-08-15 04:15:18 PM  

trippdogg: It's nice, but $300 million sounds a little over-priced...

[www.kidlantis.com image 600x491]


i178.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-15 04:16:25 PM  

nonsequitor: For those of you wondering why "Hyper Sonic" missiles are a priority in the face of all of our other societal problems when we already have "Super Sonic" missiles, the answer is simple. China already has "Hyper Sonic" missiles, now we need them too regardless of the cost.


India already has them as well (from a joint program with Russia).

In addition to the USAF "global strike" doctrine, hypersonic missiles are needed to keep the advantage in a naval confrontation. Hypersonic missiles are great for getting past a carrier's outer defenses and sinking a billion dollar floating city with 5,000 people on board and several billion dollars worth of aircraft.

On the civilian side, if they can't get hypersonic technology working for something as simple as a missile, don't expect any hypersonic aircraft that can go from New York to Tokyo in two hours anytime soon.
 
2012-08-15 04:16:44 PM  

hdhale: yeah, I'd prefer to be going to to Mars too


The two goals are not mutually exclusive.
The military was one of NASA's biggest initial backers when it came to ripping the technology from German hands and influencing the politicians to back the space race. They were an investor for the shuttle and buy a large number of rockets from the contractors, keeping them in the business. They are even getting into the newspace game as a customer.
The Military has brought the bacon home with technologies like GPS and satellite surveillance.

A high speed missile that teaches them how to build high speed jets may also give us a cheap way to access orbit (and cheaper tickets to mars). So its not really money wasted.
Its not a NASA test program, but its still science.

/Unfortunately this is rocket surgery of the highest order.
/A number of unexpected Kbooms are to expected.
 
2012-08-15 04:18:43 PM  

way south: Its not a NASA test program


We know this because only $140 million was wasted. NASA throws out tax dollars around in much larger amounts.
 
2012-08-15 04:19:40 PM  
The military already has access to a hypersonic engine. it's called a "rocket" and we've been using them for decades. MinuteMan III travels at mach 25 and has a range of 8,000 miles. just put come fancy guidance on it and replace the nuke with regular explosives and you have your fast response precision ordinance already sitting there tested and ready.
 
2012-08-15 04:24:13 PM  
Dial-a-Marine will have to wait a little longer.
 
2012-08-15 04:26:09 PM  

dbaggins: The military already has access to a hypersonic engine. it's called a "rocket" and we've been using them for decades. MinuteMan III travels at mach 25 and has a range of 8,000 miles. just put come fancy guidance on it and replace the nuke with regular explosives and you have your fast response precision ordinance already sitting there tested and ready.


ICBMs trigger the fear of a nuclear strike.. and retaliation.
 
2012-08-15 04:26:14 PM  
What? You can't stick a nuke on a cruise missile? First I've heard about that ...
 
2012-08-15 04:26:57 PM  

Feral_and_Preposterous: What? You can't stick a nuke on a cruise missile? First I've heard about that ...


The whole point of the program is to NOT use nukes.
 
2012-08-15 04:27:29 PM  

dbaggins: The military already has access to a hypersonic engine. it's called a "rocket" and we've been using them for decades. MinuteMan III travels at mach 25 and has a range of 8,000 miles. just put come fancy guidance on it and replace the nuke with regular explosives and you have your fast response precision ordinance already sitting there tested and ready.


Sure, but since nobody has done that before, there's lots of built-in conditioning that equates ballistic missiles with nuclear payloads. There's no real reason for that other than a historical association, but it was probably deemed easier to develop a new technology than to convince Russia that we really aren't trying to conduct a sneak-attack 20 years after the end of the Cold War. ...which would make it *especially* sneaky, I suppose.
 
2012-08-15 04:29:49 PM  

bdub77: TofuTheAlmighty: Girion47: That's great, can we quit wasting money on R&D now? We can blow anyone up at anytime, lets put that cash towards infrastructure, both roads and communications back home. Focusing on those two things will do far more damage towards our enemies than some super fast farking missile.

Moron. Spending money on something other than defense contractors and tax cuts for rich people is socialism.

I asked my mom, who is really against welfare, what do people on welfare spend money on?

"Alcohol and cigarettes, and some food."
"Aren't most alcohol and cigarettes made here in the US?"
"Yes."
"What else do they spend money on. Rent?"
"Yes."
"Is that spent in the US?"
"Yes."
"What about utilities. Those are US utility companies too right?"
"Yes."
"OK. Now what about tax breaks for the wealthy? Isn't that welfare?"
"No."
"Couldn't you look at tax breaks for the wealthy as a subsidy to business owners, akin to welfare, where we are not taxing our rich enough in a time when we need revenues to close the deficit gap?"
"I suppose."
"And where are they reinvesting that money not collected?"
"Here, I suppose."
"But mostly global companies, China and India."
"Probably."
"So what's worse, giving government money to poor people who disproportionately spend the money on US goods and services, or not taking money from rich people who disproportionately spend the money on foreign investments?"

This is when she stopped talking.

For the record, I am in favor of getting rid of a lot of welfare spending over time (75% or so of it over 10-20 years) provided we replace the system with programs that encourage education, help people find jobs, and teach personal and financial responsibility. I am also in favor of getting rid of 75% of our defense spending over 10-20 years and similarly funding programs which move defense R&D money and technology into new business ventures.


The problem with your argument is threefold. First, it's status quo bias. It assumes that the current tax rates are somehow "right" and that reductions are therefore "wrong".
Second, it equates taking and giving. Guy paying 500k in taxes gets a break and now pays 480, vs another person who pays nothing and takes 20k in benifits (on top of the benefits the govt gives all of us- roads/etc). So one guy now pays 15 times his equally divided share instead of 16, while the other pays no share and gets support. (btw: to calculate your "fair share" of federal taxes, take the 3.6 trillion and divide it by the number of taxpayers (approx 100m). The answer is about 36,000/year. Do you pay your "fair" share?).

Third, it assumes that the money is better off with the government. It's usually not. Taxes inherently reduce economic activity. Whether or not our current tax rate is the correct one, it's on a curve from 100% tax, which would stop all investment and business, to 0% where taxes have no impact on business decisions. Tax incentives work because they reduce the disincentive taxes have on investment. Thats why when cities and states want development in some area, they do it (both liberal and conservative) by tax incentives. Obama says this every week as "keep the wind tax credit".

/thinks the current rates should be about where they are. Not lower at this point, so no, I'm not an arch conservative.
 
2012-08-15 04:30:07 PM  

The Bestest: dbaggins: The military already has access to a hypersonic engine. it's called a "rocket" and we've been using them for decades. MinuteMan III travels at mach 25 and has a range of 8,000 miles. just put come fancy guidance on it and replace the nuke with regular explosives and you have your fast response precision ordinance already sitting there tested and ready.

ICBMs trigger the fear of a nuclear strike.. and retaliation.


At this point, would Russia even be *able* to retaliate? I mean, anything left over from the USSR must be held together by duct tape by now...

For that matter, how well do their launch detection satellites work anymore? Would they even know?
 
2012-08-15 04:30:53 PM  

arethereanybeernamesleft: hdhale: When you strip down the size of your military to the point that we have,

And by that you mean, to the largest and most expensive on earth, right?


Apparently you haven't been watching the budgets for the coming year.
 
2012-08-15 04:33:14 PM  

DarnoKonrad: Meh, it's just a weapons platform. Don't we have enough ways to kill people at the moment?


This is so we can blow up the Big Cheese of HateAmerica, Inc. without putting any ground troops or even the pilot in danger. Thus by removing said America hating dirtbag we stand a greater chance of avoiding the necessity of sending in the ground pounders.

It won't always work but in the case of somebody like Wacky Macky Imadinnerjacket it just might work.
 
2012-08-15 04:35:07 PM  

The Bestest: ICBMs trigger the fear of a nuclear strike.. and retaliation.


in the old world order, sure. Today, we just tell Russia on the red line "hey, we're launching six conventional missiles at a target that's not you"

and honestly, we don't need anything as huge or complicated as a Minuteman III, just leave some spare rocket fuel in the thing to go boom at the end.

the only thing you save with an air-breathing missile is a the cost of carrying the oxidizer and extra reduction agent leading to even more weight. For commercial flight it is all about the economics. For military, who cares. rockets work and they go real fast and the left over fuel makes a big boom at the end. We could have rapid strike based on rockets up and going in five years with existing technology.

This is just more corporate welfare for the aviation industry. THEY would love a reliable hypersonic air-breathing jet.
 
2012-08-15 04:36:18 PM  

dbaggins: The military already has access to a hypersonic engine. it's called a "rocket" and we've been using them for decades. MinuteMan III travels at mach 25 and has a range of 8,000 miles. just put come fancy guidance on it and replace the nuke with regular explosives and you have your fast response precision ordinance already sitting there tested and ready.


As the article clearly states, that IS/was the backup plan, but we're trying to avoid ICBM's because other nations can detect their launch rather easily, and any time an ICBM goes up, everyone is going to assume it is a nuke, which is a dangerous situation.

We want long range missiles without the signature of a missile, thus the reason for fixing the missile with a scramjet and not a rocket.

/They should just stick NASA on this
 
2012-08-15 04:36:58 PM  

The Bestest: Feral_and_Preposterous: What? You can't stick a nuke on a cruise missile? First I've heard about that ...

The whole point of the program is to NOT use nukes.


My point was that the article says we couldn't retrofit ICBMs with conventional weapons because people will think we're launching a nuclear strike. Who's to say that people won't see these coming and think we've outfitted them with nukes? Granted, these would be a lot harder to see coming, but assuming people won't think they can carry nukes is asinine.
 
2012-08-15 04:38:35 PM  

dbaggins: The Bestest: ICBMs trigger the fear of a nuclear strike.. and retaliation.

in the old world order, sure. Today, we just tell Russia on the red line "hey, we're launching six conventional missiles at a target that's not you"

and honestly, we don't need anything as huge or complicated as a Minuteman III, just leave some spare rocket fuel in the thing to go boom at the end.

the only thing you save with an air-breathing missile is a the cost of carrying the oxidizer and extra reduction agent leading to even more weight. For commercial flight it is all about the economics. For military, who cares. rockets work and they go real fast and the left over fuel makes a big boom at the end. We could have rapid strike based on rockets up and going in five years with existing technology.

This is just more corporate welfare for the aviation industry. THEY would love a reliable hypersonic air-breathing jet.


There is no left-over fuel. The rocket stages are all gone by the time the warhead re-enters the atmosphere. It's a "ballistic" missile, which means it flys mostly an unpowered trajectory -- a big parabola with a boost on the front end and then a long coast.

One could probably get by with no explosive at all -- just have a big tungsten dart re-enter and hit the ground at mach-20 or whatever it ends up being. The kinetic energy alone would make a big "boom".
 
2012-08-15 04:39:52 PM  

jshine:

Here's a plan: set up a front company to sell AK rounds filled with high-explosive rather than smokeless powder in the areas prone to terrorism. See what kind of chamber pressure those old Soviet AKs or home-made Khyber Pass guns can handle during "training". ;-) The problem should solve itself in a few weeks, and cheaply.


It's been done before. Project Eldest Son
 
2012-08-15 04:40:48 PM  

The Bestest: Looks like I'm late to the thread, so I'll just toss a few things out there...

The point of this project is to have rapid global strike capability -without- the use of ICBMs. Rapid global strike allows the military to cut back on the REALLY expensive things like ships and long range bombers. Research here also has application towards civilian avionics as well, so yes, the R&D is worth it.


So the Navy and Air Force sabotaged the project? Makes sense.
 
2012-08-15 04:40:51 PM  

Feral_and_Preposterous: The Bestest: Feral_and_Preposterous: What? You can't stick a nuke on a cruise missile? First I've heard about that ...

The whole point of the program is to NOT use nukes.

My point was that the article says we couldn't retrofit ICBMs with conventional weapons because people will think we're launching a nuclear strike. Who's to say that people won't see these coming and think we've outfitted them with nukes? Granted, these would be a lot harder to see coming, but assuming people won't think they can carry nukes is asinine.


Exactly: payloads and delivery systems are pretty much independent. Any kind of missile can carry any kind of warhead. ...but most people are dumb, they don't' think that deeply.
 
2012-08-15 04:44:12 PM  

dbaggins: The military already has access to a hypersonic engine. it's called a "rocket" and we've been using them for decades...


Don't get me wrong: I loves me some rockets. I visited the Atlas Museum south of Tucson and felt like a five-year-old. For a peacenik, I have a deep and abiding love of military history.

Rockets are just a pain compared to jets. Ever notice how much co-ordination it takes to get a NASA rocket off the ground because of the pesky, protein-based cargo? A simple thunderstorm can push back the mission by days.

Meanwhile, jets take off all the time. Their fuel is a sizable factor cheaper and safer, their maintenance is... oh right, they can be MAINTAINED instead of burned up and tossed in the ocean.

If we can get jets to perform at rocket speeds and respond like jets, then we open a huge number of possibilities. Killin' folks faster is just the sexiest application (and let's face it, even a Buddhist on a vow of silence has the occasional murder dream that needs to be brushed away).

We've got a lot of aging satellites. Wouldn't be a lot easier to send a jet-like device as far up as we can (since it will still need atmosphere for wing surfaces and blade-based propulsion) and toss up nicer ones with tiny rockets?

It's not the be-all, end-all solution. It would reinvigorate the space program and maybe speed up puddle-jumping in a couple decades. Right now it means making hypsersonic transport LESS of an event, less of an expense, more dependable and more controllable.
 
2012-08-15 04:44:38 PM  

MylesHeartVodak: jshine:

Here's a plan: set up a front company to sell AK rounds filled with high-explosive rather than smokeless powder in the areas prone to terrorism. See what kind of chamber pressure those old Soviet AKs or home-made Khyber Pass guns can handle during "training". ;-) The problem should solve itself in a few weeks, and cheaply.

It's been done before. Project Eldest Son


Cool, wonder why it's not done more? ...or maybe it is, and is just kept under-wraps?
 
2012-08-15 04:46:33 PM  
Honestly, an incoming hypersonic air-breathing missile and a hypersonic rocket missile are going to look pretty similar to tracking equipment.

any hypersonic missile is still going to need a rocket boost phase before you light a scramjet.

so, rocket launch, extreme speed signature... That's already quacking an awful lot like a duck.

the only real difference is the sub-orbital phase. a rocket missile would be fastest by traveling mostly outside the atmosphere. A scramjet would stall if it went that high, and have to coast until re-entry.

but you can put a nuke on an atmosphere missile just as easily.

Perhaps the Air Force is really looking for hypersonic air-to-air missiles to push out their forward offense ? or a hypersonic fighter ? I don't know.
 
2012-08-15 04:57:53 PM  

pseydtonne: Meanwhile, jets take off all the time. Their fuel is a sizable factor cheaper and safer, their maintenance is... oh right, they can be MAINTAINED instead of burned up and tossed in the ocean.



we already have re-usable rocket planes. SpaceShipOne is a rocket based plane. no tossing it away. all "rocket" means is that you don't even try to use ambient air as your oxidizer. That's it.

Now I get to do my "don't get me wrong" aw shucks stuff

i designed a turbo/ram/scramjet hybrid engine when I was a mechanical engineer in Canada. I know why you would want to harvest the fantastic compression ratio of the incident shock wave to have an ultra-efficient jet engine (it is more about saving fuel than getting to Paris in an hour). But it is going to be monstrously unstable. You are no longer trying to harness a subsonic deflagration, but now you have an engine based on a marginally controled detonation (supersonic combustion). Rockets are designed to create detonations in a very controlled fashion.

does the military need it ? nope.

commercial hypersonic travel would be a boon though.
 
2012-08-15 05:01:31 PM  

pseydtonne: since it will still need atmosphere for wing surfaces and blade-based propulsion


Pedantic quibble: scramjets don't have blades.

dbaggins: Honestly, an incoming hypersonic air-breathing missile and a hypersonic rocket missile are going to look pretty similar to tracking equipment.


Pardon my simplification but it's not unlike the difference between a line drive and a pop-fly. The ballistic warhead has a very different trajectory than the scramjet would, as it must leave the atmosphere to get anywhere (rockets can't carry enough fuel to go more than a few hundred miles within the atmosphere, no matter how fast). A scramjet is a couple orders of magnitude more efficient when it comes to fuel use, since most of it's reaction mass is provided by the atmosphere it's flying through.

None of this really adds to the 'is it worth it' debate, but there's a significant difference between the two technologies and it's certainly not unlikely that they'd have different applications.
 
2012-08-15 05:04:51 PM  

dbaggins: Now I get to do my "don't get me wrong" aw shucks stuff

i designed a turbo/ram/scramjet hybrid engine when I was a mechanical engineer in Canada. I know why you would want to harvest the fantastic compression ratio of the incident shock wave to have an ultra-efficient jet engine (it is more about saving fuel than getting to Paris in an hour). But it is going to be monstrously unstable. You are no longer trying to harness a subsonic deflagration, but now you have an engine based on a marginally controlled detonation (supersonic combustion). Rockets are designed to create detonations in a very controlled fashion.


That's fascinating. I did not know how it worked and I thank you for those details. This makes the wave thing sound more like riding a sonic wave like a toboggan.
 
2012-08-15 05:05:15 PM  

alex10294: The problem with your argument is threefold. First, it's status quo bias. It assumes that the current tax rates are somehow "right" and that reductions are therefore "wrong".



I'll stop you there. I think current tax rates are not right and reductions are wrong. I think taxes should be higher, across the board, more for wealthy but middle class taxpayers can and should be eating more taxes too. That's what happens when your government sells you out for two wars and creates an economic bubble that requires government intervention. Guess what, you have to pay for them. That means cutting spending and increasing taxes. You can't get by on cutting spending alone, not without death spiraling the economy.

Second, it equates taking and giving. Guy paying 500k in taxes gets a break and now pays 480, vs another person who pays nothing and takes 20k in benifits (on top of the benefits the govt gives all of us- roads/etc). So one guy now pays 15 times his equally divided share instead of 16, while the other pays no share and gets support. (btw: to calculate your "fair share" of federal taxes, take the 3.6 trillion and divide it by the number of taxpayers (approx 100m). The answer is about 36,000/year. Do you pay your "fair" share?).

You should equate giving and taking - that's the whole farking problem, we take too little and we give too much. The goal should be deficit and debt reduction, to take more and give less.

Giving tax breaks is the same as taking more money and then just giving it right back to that individual. The people at the low end of the scale (and the elderly) should learn to deal with lower benefits - but the people at the top should learn to deal with higher taxes.

And yes I believe in a social safety net which provides some government support for old people and people at the bottom. I don't believe in a welfare state or a continual poverty cycle which is what we currently have, however the income and wealth gap is incredibly high compared to other nations. The wealth gap, offshoring, and the plight of the middle class is very real and needs to be addressed in gov't policy. Yes I do believe in taking from the rich and giving to the poor. I believe in socialism. I am a socialist in that regard. Prove to me that socialism doesn't work again? Germany and France would like a word.

Third, it assumes that the money is better off with the government. It's usually not. Taxes inherently reduce economic activity. Whether or not our current tax rate is the correct one, it's on a curve from 100% tax, which would stop all investment and business, to 0% where taxes have no impact on business decisions. Tax incentives work because they reduce the disincentive taxes have on investment. Thats why when cities and states want development in some area, they do it (both liberal and conservative) by tax incentives. Obama says this every week as "keep the wind tax credit".

/thinks the current rates should be about where they are. Not lower at this point, so no, I'm not an arch conservative.


Not everything should be about economic activity. That's the problem with society. Completely unregulated business and wholesale privatization doesn't work. It destroys the environment, it destroys jobs and people, it places greed above the greater good of humanity. Unchecked capitalism is a nice theory, like Communism. I know you don't believe this, but government is intended to serve the people, as corrupt as government can be in places.

As for tax rates, I disagree, I think the current rates should be higher, at least short term, to address the deficit. And as I've said many times here and other places, the federal deficit creates a tax on everyone. When your dollar is worth less each year due to rising debt, your dollar doesn't go as far, and things become more expensive. At some point it might even hyperinflate which would be worse. You pay that tax when oil prices go up and up. You just don't call it a tax, you call it exchange rate. You can't cut government spending and spur the economy, just like you can't cut taxes and spur the economy. I agree, taxes between 0 and 100, but IMO the sweet spot between economic growth and deficit reduction requires a tax rate that is above where it exists right now.

People should learn to deal with less anyway. More taxes on the middle and upper class could be a good thing, consumption would go down but perhaps so would our trade deficit.

Besides, where's your data that cutting taxes will create more revenues or even create economic growth? From what I've seen many boom cycles came in times when the taxes on the highest earners were much higher. Frank I just think the taxcut lobby is just the same supply side BS that has continually been disproven by economists.

People in the US just need to learn to live with less. The American Dream isn't over, it just needs to be reworked. Not everyone is going to be able to afford daily Starbucks, an Escalade, and a McMansion. Math and science education needs to be much better. College education should be focused on the private sector and not meat grinding people interested in math and science into psychology majors. And not everyone deserves or needs to go to college - save that money and use it to fund business.
 
2012-08-15 05:05:35 PM  

Girion47: There really isn't any demand for hypersonic travel though. Otherwise the Concorde would have gotten a sequel


Problem with Concorde is that it wasn't cost-effective to operate. Not enough seats and too much maintenance.

Make a SST/HST that's not significantly more expensive to operate on a passenger/mile basis than subsonic widebody and the airlines will be all over it like white on rice.
 
2012-08-15 05:10:39 PM  

dbaggins: commercial hypersonic travel would be a boon though.


IMO, something that can make efficient use out of a modern-design turbo/ramjet hybrid has to come first. Bonus points to any company who can work out how to make it perform within a tolerable margin of a modern turbofan at subsonic speeds.

Mach 6 seems like a silly target for air travel when we can't do mach 2 in an economically/environmentally feasible manner.
 
2012-08-15 05:17:36 PM  

Girion47: That's great, can we quit wasting money on R&D now? We can blow anyone up at anytime, lets put that cash towards infrastructure, both roads and communications back home. Focusing on those two things will do far more damage towards our enemies than some super fast farking missile.


Not only does it employ people but I am guessing the X-51A is cheaper than building a high speed rail link from Madera to Fresno or from VIctorville to Vegas. Definitely cheaper that Boston's BIg Dig.

Even if it is not cheaper the technollgoical spinoffs will be more worthwhile.
 
2012-08-15 05:17:44 PM  

clyph: Girion47: There really isn't any demand for hypersonic travel though. Otherwise the Concorde would have gotten a sequel

Problem with Concorde is that it wasn't cost-effective to operate. Not enough seats and too much maintenance.

Make a SST/HST that's not significantly more expensive to operate on a passenger/mile basis than subsonic widebody and the airlines will be all over it like white on rice.


The reason the Concorde was not cost-effective was that it still used traditional turbo-jet engines. In this configuration you allow the ambient air to pass through the shocks outside the airplane in a controlled fashion based on the airplane shape. the air goes into the jet engine subsonic, then the jet engine accelerates the combustion products using a nozzle back up to supersonic speeds. This takes a LOT of fuel.

a scramjet can in theory give thrust to a hypersonic craft for an order of magnitude less fuel.

but, there are other engineering issues with them.
 
2012-08-15 05:19:47 PM  

bdub77: TofuTheAlmighty: Girion47: That's great, can we quit wasting money on R&D now? We can blow anyone up at anytime, lets put that cash towards infrastructure, both roads and communications back home. Focusing on those two things will do far more damage towards our enemies than some super fast farking missile.

Moron. Spending money on something other than defense contractors and tax cuts for rich people is socialism.

I asked my mom, who is really against welfare, what do people on welfare spend money on?

"Alcohol and cigarettes, and some food."
"Aren't most alcohol and cigarettes made here in the US?"
"Yes."
"What else do they spend money on. Rent?"
"Yes."
"Is that spent in the US?"
"Yes."
"What about utilities. Those are US utility companies too right?"
"Yes."
"OK. Now what about tax breaks for the wealthy? Isn't that welfare?"
"No."
"Couldn't you look at tax breaks for the wealthy as a subsidy to business owners, akin to welfare, where we are not taxing our rich enough in a time when we need revenues to close the deficit gap?"
"I suppose."
"And where are they reinvesting that money not collected?"
"Here, I suppose."
"But mostly global companies, China and India."
"Probably."
"So what's worse, giving government money to poor people who disproportionately spend the money on US goods and services, or not taking money from rich people who disproportionately spend the money on foreign investments?"

This is when she stopped talking.

For the record, I am in favor of getting rid of a lot of welfare spending over time (75% or so of it over 10-20 years) provided we replace the system with programs that encourage education, help people find jobs, and teach personal and financial responsibility. I am also in favor of getting rid of 75% of our defense spending over 10-20 years and similarly funding programs which move defense R&D money and technology into new business ventures.


It's not like I'm 100% against the private sector and want everything socialized. I'm just tired of the dogma that the free market fixes everything. Conservatives have spent 20 years at least saying, "Haw haw, gubmint gonna cum save ya? Gubmint gonna fix everything, right, libby?!" while having the exact same, utopian, unrealistic, and pie-eyed idealism about the private sector. Enough.
 
2012-08-15 05:21:50 PM  

The Bestest: dbaggins: The military already has access to a hypersonic engine. it's called a "rocket" and we've been using them for decades. MinuteMan III travels at mach 25 and has a range of 8,000 miles. just put come fancy guidance on it and replace the nuke with regular explosives and you have your fast response precision ordinance already sitting there tested and ready.

ICBMs trigger the fear of a nuclear strike.. and retaliation.


Also, a ballistic missile has to leave the atmosphere--that's what allows it to achieve those speeds. To attain suborbital altitudes means lots and LOTS of fuel to reach escape velocity.

The idea behind a hypersonic scramjet (as I understand it) is to allow for very high speeds without the need for a three-stage booster rocket.
 
2012-08-15 05:26:17 PM  

costermonger: Mach 6 seems like a silly target for air travel when we can't do mach 2 in an economically/environmentally feasible manner.


Our mach goes up to eleven. Which is one higher than everyone else.
 
2012-08-15 05:33:14 PM  

verbaltoxin: It's not like I'm 100% against the private sector and want everything socialized. I'm just tired of the dogma that the free market fixes everything. Conservatives have spent 20 years at least saying, "Haw haw, gubmint gonna cum save ya? Gubmint gonna fix everything, right, libby?!" while having the exact same, utopian, unrealistic, and pie-eyed idealism about the private sector. Enough.


In the end no one wants to take responsibility for their mistakes. Iraq/Afghan wars? Mistakes. Didn't save enough money and now need SS to retire at all? Mistake. Got a degree in liberal arts at the cost of $100,000 in student loans? Mistake. Bought a house too big for your wallet? Mistake. Started a business that sucks without a good business plan but taxes supposedly making it a losing proposition? Mistake. Got knocked up, quit school, and now you're on welfare money? Mistake. Voted a dipshiat Congressman into office? Mistake. Didn't teach your kid how to be self-sufficient and they now live in your basement? Mistake.

At some point people should start looking at themselves as the problem. I include myself in this.
 
2012-08-15 05:39:04 PM  
That X-15 picture appears to be Scott Crossfield who was NEVER in the AF and had left the Navy fifteen years before that picture was taken (at least).
 
2012-08-15 05:43:54 PM  
Girion47

That's great, can we quit wasting money on R&D now?

Why do liberals hate science?
 
2012-08-15 05:44:15 PM  
You have enough ordinance to break the world into tiny pieces, and a variety that allows you to do so in any way you choose and at any level of specificity. This really is just a waste.
 
2012-08-15 05:50:57 PM  

bdub77: verbaltoxin: It's not like I'm 100% against the private sector and want everything socialized. I'm just tired of the dogma that the free market fixes everything. Conservatives have spent 20 years at least saying, "Haw haw, gubmint gonna cum save ya? Gubmint gonna fix everything, right, libby?!" while having the exact same, utopian, unrealistic, and pie-eyed idealism about the private sector. Enough.

In the end no one wants to take responsibility for their mistakes. Iraq/Afghan wars? Mistakes. Didn't save enough money and now need SS to retire at all? Mistake. Got a degree in liberal arts at the cost of $100,000 in student loans? Mistake. Bought a house too big for your wallet? Mistake. Started a business that sucks without a good business plan but taxes supposedly making it a losing proposition? Mistake. Got knocked up, quit school, and now you're on welfare money? Mistake. Voted a dipshiat Congressman into office? Mistake. Didn't teach your kid how to be self-sufficient and they now live in your basement? Mistake.

At some point people should start looking at themselves as the problem. I include myself in this.


Some people--possibly yourself included--also need to stop thinking that ANYONE can see all future possibilities and plan accordingly regardless of the current situation. Decisions that seem perfectly rational at the time can be affected by things you could never imagine, or if you did, they seemed so unlikely it was worth the chance.

House too big for your wallet? Well, at the time when the buyer had a job and the housing market was a buyer's market, it seemed doable; then buyer gets laid off (why would you anticipate that?) and the market tanked (surprise!) and a tornado hit your town and half the residents had to relocate making buyer's property suddenly valueless--now the house that was affordable suddenly isn't, and that's really nobody's fault.

That degree in theater arts? Hey, you were young and figured you needed a degree, and you knew friends in IATSE who said they could get you a job when you graduated. And $500 a month to pay back your loans didn't seem that impossible (when you're 18, nothing is impossible) because you hadn't figured out yet that you needed $500 a month BEYOND what you were going to need to live on. That doesn't mean you were a fool, just young and naive.

In our haste to make EVERYTHING someone's fault (either someone else's or their own) we tend to forget that decisions aren't made in a vacuum, everyone has 20/20 hindsight, and sometimes things really do strike out of the blue that throw your careful plans into ruin. There's a balance that needs to be struck, even in assigning blame.
 
2012-08-15 05:51:20 PM  

rnatalie: That X-15 picture appears to be Scott Crossfield who was NEVER in the AF and had left the Navy fifteen years before that picture was taken (at least).


It's Pete Knight, not that I understand why it would matter if it was Crossfield.
 
2012-08-15 05:52:22 PM  

tomcatadam: You have enough ordinance to break the world into tiny pieces, and a variety that allows you to do so in any way you choose and at any level of specificity. This really is just a waste.


No, we still have to go over there to blow up the guy over there. This would allow us to not have to go over there and risk our people. It then is up to us civilians to not elect people looking for a fight and it's up to the guys over there to not try to pick a fight with us.
 
2012-08-15 05:59:27 PM  

OnlyM3: Girion47

That's great, can we quit wasting money on R&D now?
Why do liberals hate science?


Piss off.
 
2012-08-15 06:02:57 PM  
I know it's literally rocket science, but it sounds like they just readjusted the spoiler and gave it a tune up between tests 2 - 3.
 
2012-08-15 06:07:54 PM  
<b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7270214/78737637#c78737637" target="_blank">bdub77</a>:</b> <i>Besides, where's your data that cutting taxes will create more revenues or even create economic growth?</i>

Right Here

<a target="_blank" href="http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/#usgs302a">US Government Revenue<a>

<a target="_blank" href="http://www.data360.org/dsg.aspx?Data_Set_Group_Id=248">US Employment Datat</a>

<a target="_blank" href="http://www.conference-board.org">Conference board economic database</a>

<b>JFK Tax Cuts</b>

From 1965 to 1968, total federal revenue rose by 30%, from $117 billion to $153.

Tax collections from those making over $50,000 per year climbed by 57 percent between 1963 and 1966, while tax collections from those earning below $50,000 rose 11 percent. As a result, the rich saw their portion of the income tax burden climb from 11.6 percent to 15.1 percent.

<b>The Reagan tax cuts</b> (counting the two tax increases that Reagan signed, taxes overall were still much lower in Reagan's last year than they were in his first year):
<b> "It is undeniable that the sharp reduction in taxes in the early 1980s was a strong impetus to economic growth" President Clinton's Council of Economic Advisers -1994</b>

From 1982 to 1989 federal revenue rose from $618 billion to $991 billion.

the share of income taxes paid by the top 1% climbed sharply. For example, in 1981 the top 1% paid 17.6% of all personal income taxes, but by 1988 their share had jumped to 27.5%, a 10 percentage point increase. The share of the income tax burden borne by the top 10% of taxpayers increased from 48.0% in 1981 to 57.2% in 1988. Meanwhile, the share of income taxes paid by the bottom 50% of taxpayers dropped from 7.5% in 1981 to 5.7% in 1988.

Real economic growth averaged 3.2 percent during the Reagan years versus 2.8 percent during the Ford-Carter years and 2.1 percent during the Bush-Clinton years.

Real median family income grew by $4,000 during the Reagan period after experiencing no growth in the pre-Reagan years; it experienced a loss of almost $1,500 in the post-Reagan years.

The unemployment rate declined from 7.0 percent in 1980 to 5.4 percent in 1988.

The inflation rate declined from 10.4 percent in 1980 to 4.2 percent in 1988

Clinton Tax Cuts:

1997 , created a new $500 child tax credit, raised the income limit for deductible IRAs, doubled the estate tax exemption, and slashed the capital gains tax rate by28%. The reduction in the capital gains tax was especially helpful. In 1995, just over $8 billion in venture capital was invested. By 1998, the first full year in which the lower capital gains rates were in effect, venture capital activity reached almost $28 billion, more than a three-fold increase over 1995 levels, and it doubled again in 1999.

Federal revenue grew at a slightly faster rate in the three years after the 1997 tax cuts than it did in the three years before them. From 1994 to 1996, total federal revenue grew by $200 billion, from $1.26 trillion to $1.45 trillion, an increase of 16%. From 1998 to 2000, total federal revenue grew by $300 billion, from $1.72 trillion to $2.02 trillion, an increase of 17%

<b>Bush Tax Cuts:</b>
From 2004 to 2007, federal tax revenue increased by $780 billion, the largest four-year increase in American history.

After the 2003 tax cuts, the rich paid a higher percentage of the total tax burden than they had at any time in the previous 40 years.. In 2007 the top 1% of taxpayers earned 22.8% of the nation's income, yet paid 40.4% of all federal income taxes, whereas in 2004 the top 1% paid 36.89% of all federal income taxes. So the percentage of income taxes paid by the top 1% went from 36.89% in 2004 to 40.4% in 2007. (Incidentally, this also means that in 2007 the top 1% paid more in federal income taxes than the bottom 95% paid.)

Total federal revenue grew at a faster rate during the three years following the Bush tax cuts than it did during the three Clinton boom years of 1998-2000. From 1998 to 2000, following Bill Clinton's 1997 tax cuts, total federal revenue rose $300 billion, from $1.72 trillion to $2.02 trillion, an increase of 17%. A very respectable, solid increase. But, from 2004 to 2006, total federal revenue rose $520 billion, from $1.88 trillion to $2.40 trillion, an increase of 27%. The rate of inflation for the two periods was very similar (2.55% vs. 2.98%). So, even adjusted for inflation, the revenue growth that followed Bush's tax cuts was considerably better than the revenue growth that occurred during the three most prosperous years of Clinton's presidency.

U.S. output expanded faster than in most advanced economies 2000-2008. The IMF reported that real U.S. gross domestic product (GDP) grew at an average annual rate of 2.2% over the period 2001-2008 (including its forecast for the current year). The US economy expanded by 19%. This U.S. expansion compares with 14% by France, 13% by Japan and just 8% by Italy and Germany over the same period.
 
2012-08-15 06:10:59 PM  

Gyrfalcon: House too big for your wallet? Well, at the time when the buyer had a job and the housing market was a buyer's market, it seemed doable; then buyer gets laid off (why would you anticipate that?) and the market tanked (surprise!) and a tornado hit your town and half the residents had to relocate making buyer's property suddenly valueless--now the house that was affordable suddenly isn't, and that's really nobody's fault.


The housing bubble was apparent to anyone not wearing rose-colored glasses years before it popped. I'm pretty sure my first "this is a bubble & will end poorly" conversation with the wife was back in 2002 or so. When it really was at its peak it was painful to watch...
 
2012-08-15 06:23:14 PM  

Old_Chief_Scott: TheGhostofFarkPast: imnotadoctor: Why are we wasting money on a missile that can go Mach 5?

so we can kill people in huts faster. Plus its a great way to defend us against pissed off muslims who over take planes with box cutters. i heard mach 5 is the best way to defend against small knives.

Well,where else are we doing any hypersonic flight research? I'd like to fly to Japan someday and not have it take 15 hours.


I would like that too, but as the airlines that had the Concorde found out, they couldn't break even. The cost of fuel for supersonic speed is too high (twice as fast requires four times as much energy)

How much would you pay to cut 7 hours off of a 15 hour trip? $300 more? $500 more? How about $3000 more?
 
2012-08-15 06:24:01 PM  

Girion47: That's great, can we quit wasting money on R&D now? We can blow anyone up at anytime, lets put that cash towards infrastructure, both roads and communications back home. Focusing on those two things will do far more damage towards our enemies than some super fast farking missile.


Believe it or not, this is money towards infrastructure. Sure defense boom boom. Always fun to watch. But this is also the technology to reduce the cost to access low earth orbit. Which is where we park a lot of very expensive technology. Part of what makes it so expensive to park technology there is we have to bring our fuel with us. Scramjets mean we don't need to bring as much fuel, and since we need to spend less fuel to lift more fuel, we can lift more payload. This is one of the best investments we can make, even if one of the first applications will be blowing shiat up.
 
2012-08-15 06:43:56 PM  

OnlyM3: Girion47

That's great, can we quit wasting money on R&D now?
Why do liberals hate science?


fark you, don't call me liberal
 
2012-08-15 07:02:33 PM  
Erm, but aren't missile supposed to go kablooey?
 
2012-08-15 07:49:09 PM  

jshine: Gyrfalcon: House too big for your wallet? Well, at the time when the buyer had a job and the housing market was a buyer's market, it seemed doable; then buyer gets laid off (why would you anticipate that?) and the market tanked (surprise!) and a tornado hit your town and half the residents had to relocate making buyer's property suddenly valueless--now the house that was affordable suddenly isn't, and that's really nobody's fault.

The housing bubble was apparent to anyone not wearing rose-colored glasses years before it popped. I'm pretty sure my first "this is a bubble & will end poorly" conversation with the wife was back in 2002 or so. When it really was at its peak it was painful to watch...


By that argument, one would never buy a house until one could pay for it in full, in cash. A lot of people whose bubbles got popped were not in the subprime market; they were ordinary buyers with normal credit, decent jobs and no reason to believe THEY would be the ones who lost their homes when they couldn't make the payments. A bubble hurts everyone, not just those who were foolish enough to believe in it. Unless you think EVERYONE who bought a home between 2004-2008 was a starry-eyed dreamer with a $20K a year job and delusions of grandeur.
 
2012-08-15 07:49:17 PM  

StopLurkListen: I would like that too, but as the airlines that had the Concorde found out, they couldn't break even. The cost of fuel for supersonic speed is too high (twice as fast requires four times as much energy)

How much would you pay to cut 7 hours off of a 15 hour trip? $300 more? $500 more? How about $3000 more?


The whole point of a scramjet is to have this not be true. the physics of a scramjet make for far higher fuel efficiency. The Concorde used a traditional turbojet propulsion.

back of the envelope doodling, a scramjet can be 10 to 25 times more fuel efficient per pound of thrust. detailed engineering designs however are less awe-inspiring.

but you still get wave drag traveling supersonic, which has M^2 scaling. eventually wave drag dominates
 
2012-08-15 07:58:20 PM  

clyph: Make a SST/HST that's not significantly more expensive to operate on a passenger/mile basis than subsonic widebody and the airlines will be all over it like white on rice.


About that...

Not supersonic, but a shaved hair away from it. Cheap enough fuel economy to be feasible in a point-to-point model rather than hub-and-spoke, and was the precursor of many of the technologies later folded into the 787.

Cancelled due to low interest from carriers. (Although there are rumblings they may revive the program in some fashion).


/Agrees a hypersonic strike vehicle is kind of pointless
//At the same time, agrees that there are civilian applications galore for it, not the least of which is the potential of cheap orbital insertion for small payloads
 
2012-08-15 08:11:50 PM  

The Bestest: dbaggins: The military already has access to a hypersonic engine. it's called a "rocket" and we've been using them for decades. MinuteMan III travels at mach 25 and has a range of 8,000 miles. just put come fancy guidance on it and replace the nuke with regular explosives and you have your fast response precision ordinance already sitting there tested and ready.

ICBMs trigger the fear of a nuclear strike.. and retaliation.


The part I don't understand about this is that they think that changing the delivery system fixes this. Right now, intercontinental ballistic trajectories make people nervous about nukes. The only reason hypersonic airplanes don't make people nervous about nukes is because we've never built one whose purpose is delivering nukes. The second this happens, people will add "things going mach 5 toward us" to the list of things that trigger nuke fears.

The engine probably has all sorts of wonderful and useful applications, but I don't understand how they think this will help avoid retaliation.
 
2012-08-15 08:21:56 PM  

dbaggins: back of the envelope doodling, a scramjet can be 10 to 25 times more fuel efficient per pound of thrust


Back of the envelope, how many times more thrust do you need to push the same plane to mach 5 rather than 550mph?
 
2012-08-15 08:23:42 PM  

hdhale: arethereanybeernamesleft: hdhale: When you strip down the size of your military to the point that we have,

And by that you mean, to the largest and most expensive on earth, right?

Apparently you haven't been watching the budgets for the coming year.


Yes, I have, we're going from a military larger than the militaries of the rest of the world combined to a military almost as large as the rest of the world combined.

/you are trolling, right? please tell me you're trolling
 
2012-08-15 08:24:26 PM  

raygundan: The Bestest: dbaggins: The military already has access to a hypersonic engine. it's called a "rocket" and we've been using them for decades. MinuteMan III travels at mach 25 and has a range of 8,000 miles. just put come fancy guidance on it and replace the nuke with regular explosives and you have your fast response precision ordinance already sitting there tested and ready.

ICBMs trigger the fear of a nuclear strike.. and retaliation.

The part I don't understand about this is that they think that changing the delivery system fixes this. Right now, intercontinental ballistic trajectories make people nervous about nukes. The only reason hypersonic airplanes don't make people nervous about nukes is because we've never built one whose purpose is delivering nukes. The second this happens, people will add "things going mach 5 toward us" to the list of things that trigger nuke fears.

The engine probably has all sorts of wonderful and useful applications, but I don't understand how they think this will help avoid retaliation.


How many of those things that aren't nukes are there likely to be?
 
2012-08-15 08:26:20 PM  

hasty ambush: U.S. output expanded faster than in most advanced economies 2000-2008. The IMF reported that real U.S. gross domestic product (GDP) grew at an average annual rate of 2.2% over the period 2001-2008 (including its forecast for the current year). The US economy expanded by 19%. This U.S. expansion compares with 14% by France, 13% by Japan and just 8% by Italy and Germany over the same period.


What a bunch of cherrypicked BS. What happened from 2008-2010?

US output expanded 19% but then tanked after the bubble burst and people realized the profits weren't real.

Here's what it looks like:

media.zenfs.com

This is top marginal tax rate and GDP growth. There's no correlation between top tax rate and GDP growth. In fact it's slightly negative - that doesn't mean, btw that correlation = causation, that tax rates even have any impact on GDP growth - but if they did, you'd certainly have to explain it without bringing in additional variables. I've yet to see anyone make a strong argument that, for example, manufacturing moved out of this country because of taxation and that this caused GDP growth to slow. The movement of manufacturing out of the US matches with just about every post-industrial country in the world. If anything I'd guess that wage inequality caused manufacturing to move to lower cost countries, and that taxes on the wealthiest had little if any impact, especially when you consider that the people making most of the gains in income improvements over the past 30 years were the rich.

Here's one that shows debt vs tax rates:

farm3.static.flickr.com

This one's pretty simple. Lower taxes means higher debt and deficits.

Again, citing anecdotal, cherrypicked data doesn't mean that lowering taxes results in higher GDP over time. In years following tax cuts what we've seen is a staggering rise in government debt instead.

And as you can also see from the charts, the US economy grew through all changes in tax rates, so yes in all of those cases government revenues grew, because guess what the overall revenue pie hasn't changed from 20% pretty much the whole time. Even if we doubled income taxes on the wealthiest we aren't adding that much to the revenue anyway, maybe 1-2% more, which is why we need to increase taxes on the middle class AND the wealthy short term AND cut spending.

And as I've told many before, I am all for cutting government spending. Just not all at once like morons propose.
 
2012-08-15 08:30:37 PM  

hdhale: arethereanybeernamesleft: hdhale: When you strip down the size of your military to the point that we have,

And by that you mean, to the largest and most expensive on earth, right?

Apparently you haven't been watching the budgets for the coming year.


Apparently you haven't been watching the budgets for the coming year.
 
2012-08-15 08:50:54 PM  

Gyrfalcon: raygundan: The Bestest: dbaggins: The military already has access to a hypersonic engine. it's called a "rocket" and we've been using them for decades. MinuteMan III travels at mach 25 and has a range of 8,000 miles. just put come fancy guidance on it and replace the nuke with regular explosives and you have your fast response precision ordinance already sitting there tested and ready.

ICBMs trigger the fear of a nuclear strike.. and retaliation.

The part I don't understand about this is that they think that changing the delivery system fixes this. Right now, intercontinental ballistic trajectories make people nervous about nukes. The only reason hypersonic airplanes don't make people nervous about nukes is because we've never built one whose purpose is delivering nukes. The second this happens, people will add "things going mach 5 toward us" to the list of things that trigger nuke fears.

The engine probably has all sorts of wonderful and useful applications, but I don't understand how they think this will help avoid retaliation.

How many of those things that aren't nukes are there likely to be?


Bingo.

The claim is that somehow this won't trigger nuke fears like an ICBM. But we built it to haul nukes... how will this not trigger the same fears as an ICBM? It's not like this is going to look like a FedEx cargo jet on radar.
 
2012-08-15 08:54:34 PM  

bdub77: hasty ambush: U.S. output expanded faster than in most advanced economies 2000-2008. The IMF reported that real U.S. gross domestic product (GDP) grew at an average annual rate of 2.2% over the period 2001-2008 (including its forecast for the current year). The US economy expanded by 19%. This U.S. expansion compares with 14% by France, 13% by Japan and just 8% by Italy and Germany over the same period.

What a bunch of cherrypicked BS. What happened from 2008-2010?

US output expanded 19% but then tanked after the bubble burst and people realized the profits weren't real.

Here's what it looks like:

[media.zenfs.com image 700x468]

This is top marginal tax rate and GDP growth. There's no correlation between top tax rate and GDP growth. In fact it's slightly negative - that doesn't mean, btw that correlation = causation, that tax rates even have any impact on GDP growth - but if they did, you'd certainly have to explain it without bringing in additional variables. I've yet to see anyone make a strong argument that, for example, manufacturing moved out of this country because of taxation and that this caused GDP growth to slow. The movement of manufacturing out of the US matches with just about every post-industrial country in the world. If anything I'd guess that wage inequality caused manufacturing to move to lower cost countries, and that taxes on the wealthiest had little if any impact, especially when you consider that the people making most of the gains in income improvements over the past 30 years were the rich.

Here's one that shows debt vs tax rates:

[farm3.static.flickr.com image 457x333]

This one's pretty simple. Lower taxes means higher debt and deficits.

Again, citing anecdotal, cherrypicked data doesn't mean that lowering taxes results in higher GDP over time. In years following tax cuts what we've seen is a staggering rise in government debt instead.

And as you can also see from the charts, the US economy grew through all changes in tax rates, so ...


If by cherry picking you mean data covering 4 different Presidential administration,of both parties, then yes cherry picking.


With all your charts you cannot show where tax cuts caused a decrease in government revenue given that many tax cuts took place during recessions which was the real cause of any revenue reduction.
Deficits do not explode because government cuts taxes but because they spend too much.

If you are arguing that government spending is essential to economic recovery and expansion I would point you to Japan , its lost decade and half along with a national debt of about 200% of its GDP,

Japan even spent their government. better they we did. They built a lot of bridges and tunnels. We financed a failed green jobs progam, socially aware puppet shows, heated swimming pools in Hawaii and bailed out GM/UAW so they can build an assembly plant in Mexico.
 
2012-08-15 09:16:54 PM  
That's just want us to think.

/it went plaid.
 
2012-08-15 09:26:36 PM  

hasty ambush: If by cherry picking you mean data covering 4 different Presidential administration,of both parties, then yes cherry picking.


Yes cherry picking. Thank you. That's what it was.

With all your charts you cannot show where tax cuts caused a decrease in government revenue given that many tax cuts took place during recessions which was the real cause of any revenue reduction.
Deficits do not explode because government cuts taxes but because they spend too much.


Moving the goalposts are we? I wasn't exploring tax cuts vs governmental revenue (which increased regardless of tax rates), I was covering GDP vs tax rates. If GDP is not impacted by marginal tax rates then raising the tax rates should improve government revenues without impacting growth. That's logical. Of course we miss out on all the people cheating taxes or legally funneling money into tax havens overseas. The real marginal rate for the richest in this country has been around 20%, which is why we need to close the loopholes.

If you are arguing that government spending is essential to economic recovery and expansion I would point you to Japan , its lost decade and half along with a national debt of about 200% of its GDP,

And I would point you to something called the Great Depression. Japan was subject to an aging workforce which did not work in its favor.

Japan even spent their government. better they we did. They built a lot of bridges and tunnels. We financed a failed green jobs progam, socially aware puppet shows, heated swimming pools in Hawaii and bailed out GM/UAW so they can build an assembly plant in Mexico.

Completely irrelevant to the argument. Besides which you are once again cherry picking (the wrong) programs. The renewables industry in the US has gone up considerably since 2009. Wind doubled. Can I believe some monies went bust? Sure, like any investment some projects don't pan out. The bailout of GM/Chrysler/Ford saved countless UAW jobs, hardly anyone is arguing that, and with the auto industry bailout a ton of other manufacturing jobs in the US were saved. Entire supply chains and their workers were saved by not moving jobs overseas. As you might be aware, the US also spent lots of stimulus money on bridges tunnels and infrastructure. The government stimulus certainly created short term deficits but it also avoided economic stagnation and longer term depression.

Truth is 3-4 million jobs were saved by government reinvestment programs. But once again this is completely sidestepping your point about tax rates and revenues.

As for government spending and deficits, certainly we need to fix government spending. We need to begin cutting plenty of spending programs. But once again, that doesn't mean we shouldn't let the Bush tax cuts expire and tax rates to go up.

As far as 'Deficits do not explode because government cuts taxes but because they spend too much.'

Deficits can explode in two ways. They can explode because government cuts taxes too much, because they spend too much, or both. And they can be explosively reduced by increasing revenues AND decreasing spending. How is that difficult to understand?
 
2012-08-15 09:35:35 PM  
what will happen to his son, Son of X-51?

youtube
 
2012-08-15 10:03:11 PM  

Girion47: That's great, can we quit wasting money on R&D now? We can blow anyone up at anytime, lets put that cash towards infrastructure, both roads and communications back home. Focusing on those two things will do far more damage towards our enemies than some super fast farking missile.



Reported to the House Un-American Activities Committee
 
2012-08-15 10:06:56 PM  

JoeLinux: My parents (who used to be hippies in the 70s) are now extremely pro-military research (they like the internet)



The military didn't do shiat. It was public and private universities who did this research. The military only provided the funding.
 
2012-08-15 10:08:51 PM  

phrawgh: The military has driven technology as far back as the Roman Empire. The Roman road system, for example, was originally built for troop transport, but civilians were the ultimate beneficiaries. The same could be said about Eisenhower's interstate highway system, designed during the cold war.

Military R&D often leads to advancement in civilian applications.

For instance(past and current programs):
THE INTERNET (a great place to biatch about military spending)
space program (the first astronauts were launched on what were basically ICBM's)
GPS
jet aircraft
many medical advances
computers
semiconductors
chemicals needed to mass produce biofuels
potable, desalinated drinking water anywhere in the world
cheap way to manufacture titanium
nanotechnology
...and many, many more

But NO! fark all that shiat! The military is evil

/and yes, unfortunately, we always need new and better ways to kill people



Your list is a joke

All that research was done by universities or private industry

The DoD providing the funding doesn't make it "military research"

No government lab had any part of it
 
2012-08-15 10:10:55 PM  

dbaggins: The reason the Concorde was not cost-effective was that it still used traditional turbo-jet engines.



No, it was because most countries banned them flying supersonic over their airspace so you could only go fast over oceans.
 
2012-08-15 10:11:54 PM  

hasty ambush: U.S. output expanded faster than in most advanced economies 2000-2008. The IMF reported that real U.S. gross domestic product (GDP) grew at an average annual rate of 2.2% over the period 2001-2008 (including its forecast for the current year). The US economy expanded by 19%. This U.S. expansion compares with 14% by France, 13% by Japan and just 8% by Italy and Germany over the same period.



And who was responsible for that 2.2 growth each year?

That's right, government spending, mostly defense.
 
2012-08-15 11:30:30 PM  
Authorities release eyewitness composite illustration of possible saboteur.
content.internetvideoarchive.com

/Ker-PLOOEY!
 
2012-08-16 12:05:21 AM  

TofuTheAlmighty: Girion47: That's great, can we quit wasting money on R&D now? We can blow anyone up at anytime, lets put that cash towards infrastructure, both roads and communications back home. Focusing on those two things will do far more damage towards our enemies than some super fast farking missile.

Moron. Spending money on something other than defense contractors and tax cuts for rich people is socialism.


So is the whole concept of a government funded military. When are they going to shut it down and let the private sector handle it?
 
2012-08-16 12:42:06 AM  
1.bp.blogspot.com

Amateurs...
 
2012-08-16 02:13:34 AM  

Old_Chief_Scott: TheGhostofFarkPast: imnotadoctor: Why are we wasting money on a missile that can go Mach 5?

so we can kill people in huts faster. Plus its a great way to defend us against pissed off muslims who over take planes with box cutters. i heard mach 5 is the best way to defend against small knives.

Well,where else are we doing any hypersonic flight research? I'd like to fly to Japan someday and not have it take 15 hours.



Yeah. . . only. . . after the world's madmen have "used up" all of their "toys" of destruction, there may not be a Japan to go to, or anywhere else for that matter. I don't really think an increase of militarism violence and suffering are a positive trend in society regardless of what "innovations" might result. It could be done just as well, if not cheaper, by a more peaceful entity.

It's a sad thought, but science has taken a dark turn. We're too busy using our knowledge to build things meant to destroy and kill, rather than things that improve our lives.

It's always a double edged sword, and the ends never justify the means. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. . . etc. . . etc. . . etc. . .
 
2012-08-16 08:48:00 AM  

DeathCipris: Didn't they say that this wasn't going to be used a weapons platform?


no? I have never heard that. They definitely want this for a weapons platform...
 
2012-08-16 10:05:59 AM  
When an engineer says "Test results were inconclusive" they really mean "The damned thing blew up when we hit the switch."
 
2012-08-16 11:12:59 AM  

TheGhostofFarkPast: I agree completely. Can't we repurpose our military and train those guys to do road repair and other infrastructure items? One thing I never understood was that we spend so much stupid money on military and blowing things up yet those soliders can only do one thing and one thing only. I thought our new military was supposedly to be more agile and mobile and easily adaptable.


They can do more then blow shiat up. check out the Army Corp of Engineers.
 
2012-08-16 03:09:12 PM  

Gabrielmot: JackieRabbit: Damn! I was so looking forward to getting one for Christmas!

Why? Do you live in Iran?


I live in Iwalk... is that close enough? Do I get one for Christmas?
 
2012-08-16 08:28:29 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org

haven`t we seen all this type of stuff before with bombers?
 
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