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(BGR)   HP declines to join the Microsoft Surface hate parade   (bgr.com) divider line 26
    More: Interesting, Microsoft Surface, Hewlett-Packard, Microsoft, OEMs, iPhones, ipad app, BGR, iPads  
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2309 clicks; posted to Business » on 15 Aug 2012 at 3:01 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-15 03:11:45 PM
i210.photobucket.com


HP???
 
2012-08-15 03:23:23 PM
Increasingly irrelevant tech company says what?
 
2012-08-15 03:51:09 PM
They're right. The Surface is Microsoft emulating Google's Nexus series. It's a reference model. Hardware manufacturers that license their hardware have been doing it for decades.
 
2012-08-15 03:54:24 PM
Given that HP is on its way off a cliff - helped alone by that fat cow Smegma Whitman - why would they be in a position to complain about any other company. Besides, Smeggy will probably decide to OEM the surfaceand sell it for 25% more than MSoft, then change course and dump the whole product line within a month or two.

The last four CEOs at HP have Dave and Bill spinning in their graves.
 
2012-08-15 04:01:04 PM

bhcompy: They're right. The Surface is Microsoft emulating Google's Nexus series. It's a reference model. Hardware manufacturers that license their hardware have been doing it for decades.


At a rumored cost north of $1k, that's gonna be a lot mulating there.
 
2012-08-15 04:04:45 PM

strangeguitar: [i210.photobucket.com image 200x300]


HP???


In my fevered state I saw rounded corners and shaded bezels, loathsomely redolent of corporations apart from ours...
 
2012-08-15 04:13:20 PM

mcreadyblue: bhcompy: They're right. The Surface is Microsoft emulating Google's Nexus series. It's a reference model. Hardware manufacturers that license their hardware have been doing it for decades.

At a rumored cost north of $1k, that's gonna be a lot mulating there.


$1k? I'm seeing $199
 
2012-08-15 04:31:06 PM

bhcompy: mcreadyblue: bhcompy: They're right. The Surface is Microsoft emulating Google's Nexus series. It's a reference model. Hardware manufacturers that license their hardware have been doing it for decades.

At a rumored cost north of $1k, that's gonna be a lot mulating there.

$1k? I'm seeing $199


That's the ARM version, which is the version closer to an iPad or Nexus tablet. That version runs Windows RT (The ARM version of Windows 8), which is a bit limited (either no desktop mode or just for a few proprietary Windows apps like Office and IE, can't run legacy windows programs).

The x86 version of the Surface will be the one that's pretty much an ultrabook in tablet form. The last I heard on pricing on that one was "competitive with existing ultrabooks", which I always took to mean somewhere around the $1k mark.
 
2012-08-15 04:34:36 PM

davideggy: That's the ARM version, which is the version closer to an iPad or Nexus tablet. That version runs Windows RT (The ARM version of Windows 8), which is a bit limited (either no desktop mode or just for a few proprietary Windows apps like Office and IE, can't run legacy windows programs).


In other words, with the exception of Office, Windows RT only runs in what used to be called the Metro UI and only apps available through the Windows Store.
 
2012-08-15 04:38:40 PM

bhcompy: mcreadyblue: bhcompy: They're right. The Surface is Microsoft emulating Google's Nexus series. It's a reference model. Hardware manufacturers that license their hardware have been doing it for decades.

At a rumored cost north of $1k, that's gonna be a lot mulating there.

$1k? I'm seeing $199


I've seen both, and I suspect those are both wrong. $1k might be right for the Intel one, but can't see the ARM going for that. My guess is $499 or $599.

Microsoft's not going for low pricing. They're going to follow the Apple playbook. And the OEMs should be worried, because Microsoft needs to be in the hardware business in order to grow. Switching from Windows desktop licenses to Windows RT licenses would mean contraction, long-term, hence the hardware. There's no growth to be had in licensing when ARM-based devices cannibalize laptops and desktops.

May work, may not. And they'll hedge by keeping the OEMs around. But the end game seems clear.
 
2012-08-15 04:39:43 PM

davideggy: bhcompy: mcreadyblue: bhcompy: They're right. The Surface is Microsoft emulating Google's Nexus series. It's a reference model. Hardware manufacturers that license their hardware have been doing it for decades.

At a rumored cost north of $1k, that's gonna be a lot mulating there.

$1k? I'm seeing $199

That's the ARM version, which is the version closer to an iPad or Nexus tablet. That version runs Windows RT (The ARM version of Windows 8), which is a bit limited (either no desktop mode or just for a few proprietary Windows apps like Office and IE, can't run legacy windows programs).

The x86 version of the Surface will be the one that's pretty much an ultrabook in tablet form. The last I heard on pricing on that one was "competitive with existing ultrabooks", which I always took to mean somewhere around the $1k mark.


Yes, so the ultrabook will be expensive, like all ultrabooks. The ARM tablet will be priced with other competitive tablets, like the Fire and Nexus. The featureset is the same as any other tablet. Yes, they share a version number, but they truly are separate products, as you know.
 
2012-08-15 04:52:07 PM

bhcompy: Yes, so the ultrabook will be expensive, like all ultrabooks. The ARM tablet will be priced with other competitive tablets, like the Fire and Nexus. The featureset is the same as any other tablet. Yes, they share a version number, but they truly are separate products, as you know.


Exactly. I was just trying to clear things up for people like mcreadyblue who are somehow still unclear on this point. Both $1k and $199 might be correct, just for the different versions. But I do agree with RickyWilliams'sBong that $199 seems low. I figured it would be closer in price to an iPad than a Fire.
 
2012-08-15 05:08:00 PM

davideggy: bhcompy: Yes, so the ultrabook will be expensive, like all ultrabooks. The ARM tablet will be priced with other competitive tablets, like the Fire and Nexus. The featureset is the same as any other tablet. Yes, they share a version number, but they truly are separate products, as you know.

Exactly. I was just trying to clear things up for people like mcreadyblue who are somehow still unclear on this point. Both $1k and $199 might be correct, just for the different versions. But I do agree with RickyWilliams'sBong that $199 seems low. I figured it would be closer in price to an iPad than a Fire.


MS is supposedly asking $80 to license Windows RT. That puts it far outside the $199 price point.

Running MS Office may be its only redeeming quality.
 
2012-08-15 05:21:15 PM

davideggy: bhcompy: mcreadyblue: bhcompy: They're right. The Surface is Microsoft emulating Google's Nexus series. It's a reference model. Hardware manufacturers that license their hardware have been doing it for decades.

At a rumored cost north of $1k, that's gonna be a lot mulating there.

$1k? I'm seeing $199

That's the ARM version, which is the version closer to an iPad or Nexus tablet. That version runs Windows RT (The ARM version of Windows 8), which is a bit limited (either no desktop mode or just for a few proprietary Windows apps like Office and IE, can't run legacy windows programs).

The x86 version of the Surface will be the one that's pretty much an ultrabook in tablet form. The last I heard on pricing on that one was "competitive with existing ultrabooks", which I always took to mean somewhere around the $1k mark.


All that said, $199 for the ARM version would be epically awesome, and far more awesomeness per dollar than anyone else is offering. The "Pro"/x86 version will be worth the price, too. $1K is a lot of money for a traditional tablet, but for what would be the first true enterprise-worthy tablet, that's a deal.

But that won't stop the haters from pretending that the $1K version is comparable to the iPad and thus overpriced.
 
2012-08-15 05:28:35 PM

mcreadyblue: MS is supposedly asking $80 to license Windows RT. That puts it far outside the $199 price point.


Why do you assume MS would apply the same licensing pricing to themselves?

Also note that they would surely be treating Surface as a loss-leader at $199. They won't necessarily be looking to turn a profit or even break-even on the units themselves (ala the Xbox 360 when it launched).
 
2012-08-15 07:26:57 PM

rosebud_the_sled: The last four CEOs at HP have Dave and Bill spinning in their graves.


Lew Platt was more than four CEOs ago, and he's the one who slashed the company into pieces.
 
2012-08-15 07:43:15 PM

bhcompy: Yes, so the ultrabook will be expensive, like all ultrabooks. The ARM tablet will be priced with other competitive tablets, like the Fire and Nexus. The featureset is the same as any other tablet.


Ummm. No.

Android and iOS tablets don't require you to drop out of a touch interface and use the old Windows 7 desktop for file management and/or to change certain settings that are not available through the "metro" touch interface.

The Windows 8 touch interface is incomplete.
 
2012-08-15 08:13:35 PM

BullBearMS: bhcompy: Yes, so the ultrabook will be expensive, like all ultrabooks. The ARM tablet will be priced with other competitive tablets, like the Fire and Nexus. The featureset is the same as any other tablet.

Ummm. No.

Android and iOS tablets don't require you to drop out of a touch interface and use the old Windows 7 desktop for file management and/or to change certain settings that are not available through the "metro" touch interface.

The Windows 8 touch interface is incomplete.


Not to defend MS, but as I recall, iOS doesn't let the user manage files at all.

/not an iPhone or iPad owner
 
2012-08-15 08:46:36 PM

BullBearMS: bhcompy: Yes, so the ultrabook will be expensive, like all ultrabooks. The ARM tablet will be priced with other competitive tablets, like the Fire and Nexus. The featureset is the same as any other tablet.

Ummm. No.

Android and iOS tablets don't require you to drop out of a touch interface and use the old Windows 7 desktop for file management and/or to change certain settings that are not available through the "metro" touch interface.

The Windows 8 touch interface is incomplete.


Funny, because Windows Phone 7, which the W8 Metro interface has been upgraded from, doesn't have those problems at all. And, of course, it's because the link you're looking at is the x86 version. The ARM version does not have the traditional Windows desktop, does not have "windows" at all. It works just like WP7 does.
 
2012-08-15 10:40:01 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: mcreadyblue: MS is supposedly asking $80 to license Windows RT. That puts it far outside the $199 price point.

Why do you assume MS would apply the same licensing pricing to themselves?

Also note that they would surely be treating Surface as a loss-leader at $199. They won't necessarily be looking to turn a profit or even break-even on the units themselves (ala the Xbox 360 when it launched).


If MS values Windows RT for say $1 for internal use, then patent and trademark enforcement would be hamstringed by that low price.

$1 may not be a felony in some states.
If you pirate software worth only $1, what jury would give more in damages?
 
2012-08-15 11:08:00 PM

HempHead: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: mcreadyblue: MS is supposedly asking $80 to license Windows RT. That puts it far outside the $199 price point.

Why do you assume MS would apply the same licensing pricing to themselves?

Also note that they would surely be treating Surface as a loss-leader at $199. They won't necessarily be looking to turn a profit or even break-even on the units themselves (ala the Xbox 360 when it launched).

If MS values Windows RT for say $1 for internal use, then patent and trademark enforcement would be hamstringed by that low price.

$1 may not be a felony in some states.
If you pirate software worth only $1, what jury would give more in damages?


They probably will not sell WinRT separately, like Apple does not sell iOS separately. That makes it basically a moot point.
 
2012-08-15 11:48:29 PM

bhcompy: HempHead: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: mcreadyblue: MS is supposedly asking $80 to license Windows RT. That puts it far outside the $199 price point.

Why do you assume MS would apply the same licensing pricing to themselves?

Also note that they would surely be treating Surface as a loss-leader at $199. They won't necessarily be looking to turn a profit or even break-even on the units themselves (ala the Xbox 360 when it launched).

If MS values Windows RT for say $1 for internal use, then patent and trademark enforcement would be hamstringed by that low price.

$1 may not be a felony in some states.
If you pirate software worth only $1, what jury would give more in damages?

They probably will not sell WinRT separately, like Apple does not sell iOS separately. That makes it basically a moot point.


Acer has already announced ARM devices running WinRT(whether they deliver is another matter entirely). So, obviously, MS will be selling WinRT. Or giving it away free.
 
2012-08-16 12:34:17 AM

HempHead: Acer has already announced ARM devices running WinRT(whether they deliver is another matter entirely). So, obviously, MS will be selling WinRT. Or giving it away free.


When I say sell I mean individually. As in you can't go to the store and buy iOS. It has no established retail value.
 
2012-08-16 10:30:02 AM
W8 looks like a giant turd in a punchbowl to me. Still a lot of people will scoop up some punch and give it a try anyway. The 1984-like "forget Metro" campaign is pretty telling. I can't wait to see the reaction of people who buy an RT device and realize they have to run shiattified versions of the software. And why the fark is the address bar at the bottom of the screen. Why can't I run Firefox or Chrome. Why shouldn't I just get an ipad or android?

MS is nuking or totally ignoring some of the best stuff they've developed, like Live Mesh* and Inking. Meanwhile Samsung can't make enough Galaxy Note devices, which have a really crappy version of inking. All because they had the stones to actually market it.

*do not tell me that Skydrive does everything LiveMesh did. It doesn't.
 
2012-08-16 10:32:25 AM

bhcompy: Funny, because Windows Phone 7, which the W8 Metro interface has been upgraded from, doesn't have those problems at all. And, of course, it's because the link you're looking at is the x86 version. The ARM version does not have the traditional Windows desktop, does not have "windows" at all. It works just like WP7 does.


Ummmm. No.

The ARM version of Windows does have a traditional Windows desktop for file management and to allow for running only certain desktop versions of Microsoft's own software.

The new versions of Microsoft's Office apps and Microsoft's Internet Explorer both run from the traditional desktop. Third party desktop based software will not run.

If you read the author's posts in the comments section for his article, you will see that he makes this quite clear when others make these same claims.

Users of iOS, Android, and even Win Phone 7 have a touch interface that covers everything possible in their device. Android never drops you out into Linux. iOS never drops you out into OSX. Win Phone 7 never drops you out into Windows CE.

Yet Windows 8 drops you out onto the Windows desktop because it's touch interface is not complete.

anfrind: iOS doesn't let the user manage files at all.


iOS transfers responsibility for file management to the individual apps. Windows does not.

Requiring the use of the non-touch optimized Windows 7 desktop to manage files and change settings does not cut it in a true touch based tablet interface.
 
2012-08-16 12:18:51 PM
That's because HP has is in no position to hate on anybody.

/used 3 HP computers in my life.
//hated all of them
///No hard reset button? Seriously??
 
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