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(Gawker)   Chicago is on a record-setting pace to pass 500 homicides this year. Unfortunately, none of these shootings are affiliated with comic books or religion so nobody reports on them   (gawker.com) divider line 104
    More: Sad, Chicago, murder rate, New York Observer, homicides, College Station, shootings, faiths  
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2579 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Aug 2012 at 2:43 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-15 12:47:04 PM
Chicago is on a record-setting pace to pass 500 homicides this year

How about some perspective on that number?

Homicides in Chicago 1990-2011

1990: 851
1991: 927
1992: 943
1993: 855
1994: 931
1995: 828
1996: 796
1997: 761
1998: 704
1999: 643
2000: 633
2001: 667
2002: 656
2003: 601
2004: 453
2005: 451
2006: 471
2007: 448
2008: 513
2009: 459
2010: 436
2011: 433
 
2012-08-15 12:55:56 PM
Some people actually have suggested that rampant murder is a form of indirect population control. It makes sense from the standpoint of the article which states that similar cities with high gang activity have managed to have low murder rates (Los Angeles is mentioned). It's hard to personalize the murders in Chicago though because they are usually unique scenarios with otherwise irrelevant shooters. The shooters in Aurora and the Sikh temple massacres were remarkable in their background: a student on his way to completing a PhD who wires his entire apartment in booby trapped explosives and orders thousands of rounds of ammunition months ahead of time, and an ex-military white supremacist in the Sikj temple incident. These make for good news publicity because people pay attention to the extremes and the unusual. It's not unusual that someone was murdered in Chicago though. We come to expect it and when it happens, there is really nothing to look into. The families undoubtedly want a spotlight, but sometimes the shooter isn't even known, and it's honestly not worth the time for the police to even look for them. The evidence just isn't there to find them. Publicizing the incident isn't going to bring closure to the families either. It would probably make them feel worse. They would be family #463, for instance, to the newspapers, because every newspaper article wouldn't be about how the family is coping, but instead it would revolve around the rising murder rate in Chicago.

The shootings in Aurora and Oak Creek had almost nothing to do with "comic books or religion," by the way, much like rape has nothing to do with sex. They are acts of violence. It doesn't matter where it occurred (a theater, a church, outside of a bar, a sporting event). These are just gatherings that have been interfered with. The time and place has been interrupted. It's likely that the Sikh temple shooter had almost no knowledge of the religion being practiced at the temple, nor did he have anything necessarily against the people within. James Holmes didn't have a personal vendetta against anyone in the theater, he didn't know them.

That's the problem with the atheist religion in general -- and I'm assuming James Holmes and Michael Page were atheists -- it makes connections against religion where there are none. It draws from violence and then condemns it at the same time. From an article on the Sikh temple shooting, "Federal investigators might never know for certain why 40-year-old Wade Michael Page chose to attack total strangers in a holy place." Page had no motive other than just random violence from a weak mind and he chose to target people who probably had a better understanding of the meaning and purpose of life than he ever will.
 
2012-08-15 01:12:30 PM
I am 100% certain none of those deaths are attributed to handguns, because I think they are illegal there..right?
 
2012-08-15 01:17:31 PM

Dr.Knockboots: I am 100% certain none of those deaths are attributed to handguns, because I think they are illegal there..right?


made it all the way to three comments. good show of restraint, fark.
 
2012-08-15 01:42:50 PM
Also possible, and far more chilling, is that maybe people don't think it's so unfair for young black people to get killed in Chicago's ghettoes.

Yuck, that is probably part of it, but more so what they were saying about individual murders between people known to each other typically being local news, random or political/racial/etc mass murders of strangers being national news.
 
2012-08-15 01:54:45 PM

Sybarite: How about some perspective on that number?


OK. The national homicide rate is 4.8 per 100,000. The homicide rate in Chicago is 15.2 per 100,000. But it's a big city, you say? New York City's homicide rate is 6.4 per 100,000.

For those last two numbers, you have to do the math yourself, but it's just number of homicides/population*100,000. Source is the FBI Uniform Crime Reports.
 
2012-08-15 01:54:59 PM

Sybarite: Chicago is on a record-setting pace to pass 500 homicides this year

How about some perspective on that number?

Homicides in Chicago 1990-2011

1990: 851
1991: 927
1992: 943
1993: 855
1994: 931
1995: 828
1996: 796
1997: 761
1998: 704
1999: 643
2000: 633
2001: 667
2002: 656
2003: 601
2004: 453
2005: 451
2006: 471
2007: 448
2008: 513
2009: 459
2010: 436
2011: 433


and when did we get a new police chief who fixed all the problems from the last one??
SIGH

this is what you get when you promote from within, in a corrupt organization.
 
2012-08-15 01:58:39 PM

tallguywithglasseson: Also possible, and far more chilling, is that maybe people don't think it's so unfair for young black people to get killed in Chicago's ghettoes.

Yuck, that is probably part of it, but more so what they were saying about individual murders between people known to each other typically being local news, random or political/racial/etc mass murders of strangers being national news.


What I would really like to see is a break down of murder by drug/gang related (including accidentally shot during a drive by gang shooting). My guess is that somewhere between 75 and 90% are drug/gang related. So we should keep doing what have been doing because it has been so successful.

WHY havent these communities demanded that the city stop doing the same thing year after year?
DRUGS are not destroying your communities. Retarded drug laws are.

Legalize ALL DRUGS. and the murder rate will plummet.
Alas, robberies will probably go up as the gangs have to make money some how.
LOL
 
2012-08-15 01:59:31 PM

dittybopper: Source is the FBI Uniform Crime Reports.


FUCR? someone is just messing with us now
 
2012-08-15 02:02:33 PM

Dr.Knockboots: I am 100% certain none of those deaths are attributed to handguns, because I think they are illegal there..right?


Not for a couple of years now: McDonald v. Chicago

In Heller, we held that the Second Amendment protects
the right to possess a handgun in the home for the purpose
of self-defense. Unless considerations of stare decisis
counsel otherwise, a provision of the Bill of Rights that
protects a right that is fundamental from an American
perspective applies equally to the Federal Government
and the States. See Duncan, 391 U. S., at 149, and n. 14.
We therefore hold that the Due Process Clause of the
Fourteenth Amendment incorporates the Second Amendment
right recognized in Heller.
 
2012-08-15 02:22:46 PM

dittybopper: Not for a couple of years now: McDonald v. Chicago


And the murder rate goes up... weird, I'd have expected it to plummet as all the criminals would assume everyone has a gun now.
 
2012-08-15 02:28:50 PM

ignite ice: The shootings in Aurora and Oak Creek had almost nothing to do with "comic books or religion," by the way, much like rape has nothing to do with sex.


Actually, if you look at the age of the female victim in sexual assault cases, it pretty much follows their expected fertility rates. Unlike homicide, aggravated assault, and robbery rates by age, which all peak in the 18-21 age range, then descend in a linear fashion, rape rates among women peak at the same point, but drop down to a plateau with a small hump in the 30-34 age bucket, and they drop to almost nothing right about the expected time of menopause.

That suggests that there is a sexual component to rape. If it was purely about power, then the victimization rates by age should track with other violent crime, and peak at the same place but descend in a linear fashion. It doesn't.
 
2012-08-15 02:33:09 PM

tallguywithglasseson: dittybopper: Not for a couple of years now: McDonald v. Chicago

And the murder rate goes up... weird, I'd have expected it to plummet as all the criminals would assume everyone has a gun now.


Yeah, except that it's been in the news that the mayor and the city council have made it as difficult and as expensive as they think they can get away with. So that's going to cut down the number of people, and just because you're allowed to *OWN* one doesn't mean you're allowed to *CARRY* it.
 
2012-08-15 02:39:23 PM

dittybopper: Yeah, except that it's been in the news that the mayor and the city council have made it as difficult and as expensive as they think they can get away with. So that's going to cut down the number of people, and just because you're allowed to *OWN* one doesn't mean you're allowed to *CARRY* it.


Oh, I'm not arguing that the handgun laws are having any effect one way or the other, just noting that a change to the law in the permissive direction and the murder rate going up make snarky comments about the handgun ban seem rather silly. Er, sillier.

//wouldn't argue against a shall-issue conceal/carry permit system in Chicago
//wouldn't make a difference in the murder rate though
 
2012-08-15 02:41:13 PM

tallguywithglasseson: dittybopper: Yeah, except that it's been in the news that the mayor and the city council have made it as difficult and as expensive as they think they can get away with. So that's going to cut down the number of people, and just because you're allowed to *OWN* one doesn't mean you're allowed to *CARRY* it.

Oh, I'm not arguing that the handgun laws are having any effect one way or the other, just noting that a change to the law in the permissive direction and the murder rate going up make snarky comments about the handgun ban seem rather silly. Er, sillier.

//wouldn't argue against a shall-issue conceal/carry permit system in Chicago
//wouldn't make a difference in the murder rate though


Illinois is the last state without a concealed carry permit.
Must suck for the cops knowing that someday soon they wont be safe shooting first anymore. And that they might have to act like humans.
 
2012-08-15 02:47:02 PM

dittybopper: Sybarite: How about some perspective on that number?

OK. The national homicide rate is 4.8 per 100,000. The homicide rate in Chicago is 15.2 per 100,000. But it's a big city, you say? New York City's homicide rate is 6.4 per 100,000.

For those last two numbers, you have to do the math yourself, but it's just number of homicides/population*100,000. Source is the FBI Uniform Crime Reports.



So? Chicago is having a power struggle in the drug trafficking business right now and New York isn't. Let's not pretend like it's anything else. It's still silly to talk about 500 homicides being "record setting" when the crack wars of the early 90s were putting up nearly twice those numbers. In a country where regional poverty is so severe and the drug trade is so lucrative, these street wars are going to flare up from time to time. Since our country doesn't seem to really have the will to address either issue, it's something we're going to have to live with for the foreseeable future.
 
2012-08-15 02:47:23 PM
Black people be shootin' people like this, white people be shootin' folk like this
 
2012-08-15 02:47:34 PM
Gotta say that is kinda of scary.

When you live in a city where there are like 10 murders a year, it seems like chaos on the streets.
 
2012-08-15 02:50:49 PM

Sybarite: So? Chicago is having a power struggle in the drug trafficking business right now and New York isn't. Let's not pretend like it's anything else. It's still silly to talk about 500 homicides being "record setting" when the crack wars of the early 90s were putting up nearly twice those numbers. In a country where regional poverty is so severe and the drug trade is so lucrative, these street wars are going to flare up from time to time. Since our country doesn't seem to really have the will to address either issue, it's something we're going to have to live with for the foreseeable future.


To be honest, this isnt really effecting anyone. The same people who are dying are the same people who continue to support the current drug laws. Your neighborhood is filled with illegal drug dealers? and has been filled with these drug dealing gangs since the 80s? well shut the fark up already and force them to change the damn laws.

when was the last time that there were drive by shootings related to alcohol or tobacco???
LOL
 
2012-08-15 02:52:15 PM
Sardonic Al Capone and Frank Nitti references missing in this thread

/ditto Cosner and Connery
 
2012-08-15 02:52:35 PM
Rammed Emanuel, super duper mayor.
 
2012-08-15 02:55:24 PM

ignite ice: Some people actually have suggested that rampant murder is a form of indirect population control


Right. Because in a city of several million people, 500 deaths really put a big dent in population growth.
 
2012-08-15 02:58:09 PM

Hobo Jr.: Gotta say that is kinda of scary.

When you live in a city where there are like 10 murders a year, it seems like chaos on the streets.


Our city of a half million averages 5 per year. 500 murders per year is close to our NATIONAL homicide total here. I must admit I find that scary, for sure. I would assume, though, that the murders are sorta based on the area of the city - like in some parts of the city there are very few and they are different than other "bad" areas where there is a lot of gang/turf/drug activity?
 
2012-08-15 02:59:20 PM
Sounds like a liberal paradise to me.
 
2012-08-15 03:03:47 PM

dittybopper: ignite ice: The shootings in Aurora and Oak Creek had almost nothing to do with "comic books or religion," by the way, much like rape has nothing to do with sex.

Actually, if you look at the age of the female victim in sexual assault cases, it pretty much follows their expected fertility rates. Unlike homicide, aggravated assault, and robbery rates by age, which all peak in the 18-21 age range, then descend in a linear fashion, rape rates among women peak at the same point, but drop down to a plateau with a small hump in the 30-34 age bucket, and they drop to almost nothing right about the expected time of menopause.

That suggests that there is a sexual component to rape. If it was purely about power, then the victimization rates by age should track with other violent crime, and peak at the same place but descend in a linear fashion. It doesn't.


Nice link, that's some real meat to chew on. I hypothesize that while power and control are still major factors at play in sexual assault of all ages, that due to media portrayal of women (this includes the widespread availability of porn), rapists and other violent men feel they are entitled to women who look like the standard, no matter how unrealistic. These violent offenders do the equivalent of "I deserve this trophy, I don't have it, that's not fair/right, so I'm going to take it, because I deserve it."

George Sodini is an excellent example of the underlying entitlement, though without rape involved.
 
2012-08-15 03:05:58 PM
Stricter gun control la-- oh, they do? Never mind.
 
2012-08-15 03:08:00 PM
A shocking statistic, this is so racist I feel bad posting it but it must be said.
www.occidentaldissent.com
 
2012-08-15 03:08:46 PM

Phony_Soldier: Sounds like a liberal paradise to me.


AKA a police state.
You can not record the police. Special people can own guns, the little people dont need them.
...
you know, this story is so old it is quite sad. We should probably require laws be conditional.
Your law to stop drug use has failed for 40 years? TADA all drugs are legal.
Your laws to stop gambling and prostitution? TADA legal.

/Yes crimes AGAINST people would still be illegal. but laws trying to enforce morals?? LOL
 
2012-08-15 03:09:04 PM
I got sad for chicago...

then i started looking at some stats on my own little city, and I think, very unfortunately, we may be in the runnings for highest murder rate per capita in the US.

last year it was roughly 58 murders per 100,000.
 
2012-08-15 03:09:51 PM

Phony_Soldier: Sounds like a liberal paradise to me.


More like a gangsta paradise...

www.hiphoplead.com

/amiright?
 
2012-08-15 03:10:45 PM

smitty04: A shocking statistic, this is so racist I feel bad posting it but it must be said.
[www.occidentaldissent.com image 359x276]


What's so racist about math, lib?
 
2012-08-15 03:11:09 PM
A reference from "The Wire" seems fitting; when Detective Sargent Landsman reminds Bunk: "She's still dead in a zip code that does not farking matter."
 
2012-08-15 03:11:10 PM

Sybarite: So? Chicago is having a power struggle in the drug trafficking business right now and New York isn't. Let's not pretend like it's anything else.


I was putting proper perspective on the number, which was 3 times the national average *TWO YEARS AGO* (2010), which is where I got my numbers from.

It's gotten worse since then.
 
2012-08-15 03:11:13 PM

dittybopper: tallguywithglasseson: dittybopper: Not for a couple of years now: McDonald v. Chicago

And the murder rate goes up... weird, I'd have expected it to plummet as all the criminals would assume everyone has a gun now.

Yeah, except that it's been in the news that the mayor and the city council have made it as difficult and as expensive as they think they can get away with. So that's going to cut down the number of people, and just because you're allowed to *OWN* one doesn't mean you're allowed to *CARRY* it.


I am certain that advocates of restricting civilian firearm ownership will consider the difficulty in legally obtaining a handgun in Chicago and thus will not attribute the increased rate of homicides to the overturning of the city's prohibition upon civilian handgun ownership.
 
2012-08-15 03:12:45 PM

Phony_Soldier: Sounds like a liberal paradise to me.


Says the guy from Commiefornia who stopped having gay buttsex and smoking weed while eating organic arugula and sipping a latte behind the wheel of his Prius just long enough to type.
 
2012-08-15 03:14:29 PM

namatad: when was the last time that there were drive by shootings related to alcohol


Well, now that you mention it....
 
2012-08-15 03:16:09 PM

smitty04: A shocking statistic, this is so racist I feel bad posting it but it must be said.
[www.occidentaldissent.com image 359x276]


the race issue is coincidental to poverty. there should be a graph correlating incomes to crime rates.

crime is encouraged under socio-economic dynamics, not genetic.
 
2012-08-15 03:17:45 PM
I would love to see the raw numbers.

I bet if you don't count the people who deserved it the number would be single digits.

And by deserved it I mean someone involved in the drug trade, or living in a household where the police have been called 3 or more times for domestic disputes.
 
2012-08-15 03:18:46 PM

namatad: tallguywithglasseson: dittybopper: Yeah, except that it's been in the news that the mayor and the city council have made it as difficult and as expensive as they think they can get away with. So that's going to cut down the number of people, and just because you're allowed to *OWN* one doesn't mean you're allowed to *CARRY* it.

Oh, I'm not arguing that the handgun laws are having any effect one way or the other, just noting that a change to the law in the permissive direction and the murder rate going up make snarky comments about the handgun ban seem rather silly. Er, sillier.

//wouldn't argue against a shall-issue conceal/carry permit system in Chicago
//wouldn't make a difference in the murder rate though

Illinois is the last state without a concealed carry permit.
Must suck for the cops knowing that someday soon they wont be safe shooting first anymore. And that they might have to act like humans.


That's complete BS. The cops in Chicago will never act like humans.
 
2012-08-15 03:19:39 PM

smitty04: A shocking statistic, this is so racist I feel bad posting it but it must be said.
[www.occidentaldissent.com image 359x276]


Well you could just paint that entire pie graph the color "POOR" and it'd be just as telling.
 
2012-08-15 03:20:50 PM
500 murders? Nothing lazy about that......
 
2012-08-15 03:22:03 PM

dittybopper: namatad: when was the last time that there were drive by shootings related to alcohol

Well, now that you mention it....


Just a moment, are you implying that decriminalizing alcohol consumption somehow reduced violence associated with trafficking illegal alcohol?

How is that in anyway relevant to a Chicago gun violence thread.?
Fark can be really silly at times.
 
2012-08-15 03:22:41 PM

pute kisses like a man: smitty04: A shocking statistic, this is so racist I feel bad posting it but it must be said.
[www.occidentaldissent.com image 359x276]

the race issue is coincidental to poverty. there should be a graph correlating incomes to crime rates.

crime is encouraged under socio-economic dynamics, not genetic.


www.chicagonow.com

Edison Park is the place to be. Is that a Whites Only neighborhood?
 
2012-08-15 03:24:50 PM
The epidemic of black on black violence continues while community and government leaders do nothing.
 
2012-08-15 03:25:17 PM

dittybopper: Sybarite: How about some perspective on that number?

OK. The national homicide rate is 4.8 per 100,000. The homicide rate in Chicago is 15.2 per 100,000. But it's a big city, you say? New York City's homicide rate is 6.4 per 100,000.


Comparing to New York is cherry picking - NYC has some of the lowest crime rates of any major city in the world. Among US cities with at least a quarter million people, Chicago's murder rate is exceeded by that of Miami, Milwaukee, Stockton, Atlanta, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Philly, Cinci, Buffalo, Kansas City, DC, Oakland, Newark, Detroit, Baltimore, St. Louis and NOLA. So if we're going to compare Chicago's 15.2 to NYC's 6.4, we should also compare it to St. Louis' 40.5.

Link
 
2012-08-15 03:26:57 PM

dittybopper: namatad: when was the last time that there were drive by shootings related to alcohol

Well, now that you mention it....


So sad that we have been unable to learn from such a perfect example in history.
 
2012-08-15 03:30:07 PM
The reason why the murder rate is a direct result of the tearing down of the CHA high rises. All residents needed to be placed throughout the city but especially in middle class neighborhoods that were already facing gang violence. Add to the mix diplaced gang members to these areas and there are bound to be problems. As a result, there was a flight of residents which depressed the already housing market and the only option left for most homeowners was to offer up their homes for Section 8. This increased the flood of displaced CHA residents hastened the departure of remaining residents (and those from surrounding neighborhoods). Now you have a large population that live in single family homes, with alleys and gangways, to skulk around and do their thing. Most of the gang violence is occurs in the west and south sides beacuse the north is typically more expensive to live in. Gentrification from the last 15-20 years helped areas in the near north and near west sides combat their problems but this was driven by money. Apartments turned to condos and single family homes were expanded or their property tax was increased and the residents were priced out.

There was never any serious planning done during the Daley administration (duh!) because the only thing important was getting people to develop new housing and drive out the unwanted residents (can't tax what they don't got). This is not necessarily an issue of gun violence, it is an issue of social infrastructure, urban planning, and outright greed. The reason why no one cares is because it's happening in the "expected" neighborhoods and the only time violence is an issue is when a child gets hurt in gang crossfire.

I have grown tired of people chiming in about guns, either pro or against, and using Chicago as justification for their agenda and I don't want to here your opinion if you have not lived here the past 20 years (I have lived here for all 38 years of my life). You have not seen or experienced the city to see how we got here and where we are headed. Take a drive down some of the once middle class neighborhoods and tell me you see the same investment there as you see in the loop and surrounding areas. It is so disheartening to see citizens continually vote for the same clowns that make decisions that are not in their best interest. I bet 90% of these people don't know what a tif district is or how it works and what it is doing to their neighborhoods.

Citizens of Chicago, wake me up when you are ready to talk like an adult...but be prepared to look in the mirror. No one makes these kind of decisions without you allowing it. OK, that's all for me, lunchtime is over.
 
2012-08-15 03:31:06 PM

Rapmaster2000: Phony_Soldier: Sounds like a liberal paradise to me.

Says the guy from Commiefornia who stopped having gay buttsex and smoking weed while eating organic arugula and sipping a latte behind the wheel of his Prius just long enough to type.


I can't stop doing all of that. I had to have Siri post it for me.
 
2012-08-15 03:31:19 PM

Broktun: The epidemic of black on black violence continues while community and government leaders do nothing.


So close to 50 years of the Great Society and a hundred years of public education is "doing nothing" about black poverty and violence? What would be enough then? Oh, I forgot, it's never enough.
 
2012-08-15 03:31:22 PM

Broktun: The epidemic of black on black violence continues while community and government leaders do nothing blindly thinks that keeping drugs illegal will solve anything.


Step one is admitting what the problem is. As long as the voters continue to pretend otherwise, you can never actually solve the problem.

Season 4 (3?) of The Wire did a great job of showing the pros and cons of legalization/decriminalization. The scene where the councilman walked through Hampsterdam was probably one of the best scenes of television, ever.
 
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