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(Washington Examiner)   Ironic tag explodes-"younger voters want change"   (washingtonexaminer.com) divider line 121
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1179 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Aug 2012 at 2:19 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-15 12:53:38 PM
With the prospect of no chance for a job after graduation and being saddled with decades of student loans is this a shock to anyone?
 
2012-08-15 12:58:47 PM

EnviroDude: With the prospect of no chance for a job after graduation and being saddled with decades of student loans is this a shock to anyone?


R's have been saying for 4 years that kids won't turn out to vote. Now they're trumpeting the fact that 40% of them hate their guy less. Weird.
 
2012-08-15 02:21:55 PM
"This is the first time I am seeing Romney's numbers this high among 18-29 year olds anyone,"

Fixed the article
 
2012-08-15 02:22:20 PM

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: EnviroDude: With the prospect of no chance for a job after graduation and being saddled with decades of student loans is this a shock to anyone?

R's have been saying for 4 years that kids won't turn out to vote. Now they're trumpeting the fact that 40% of them hate their guy less. Weird.


40%?

Well this is just bad news for Obama.

/24
//Voting for Obama
///Not voting for the current group of assclowns which consist of the modern Republican Party and probably won't in my lifetime if they keep acting like this
 
2012-08-15 02:24:22 PM
I guess they really do want a muffin made of broken glass.
 
2012-08-15 02:25:17 PM
Oh, wait, Obama still cleans up the youth vote.

Nevermind...
 
2012-08-15 02:25:46 PM
I forget which way Zogby's number tilt.
 
2012-08-15 02:26:36 PM
But but but Obama is so cool. How can this be?
 
2012-08-15 02:26:52 PM

EnviroDude: With the prospect of no chance for a job after graduation and being saddled with decades of student loans is this a shock to anyone?


Obamasmagictimemachine.jpg

Some of us younger people voted for President Obama and continue to believe he is the best available choice.

What do you think should be done about the student loan debt issue?
 
2012-08-15 02:27:01 PM
From Wikipedia:

"Nate Silver statistician of FiveThirtyEight.com called Zogby International's online polling division, Zogby Interactive, "The worst pollster in the world." ranking it last in his Pollster Rankings. He also ranked Zogby's Telephone polls 53rd of 64.[7] He notes the pollster relies on one day polling which causes large fluctuations in data. Silver uses their misleading questions, seemingly to create a bias, as evidence for their status."
 
2012-08-15 02:28:09 PM
You know, I'm tired of looking for menial work with no hope of putting that college degree to good use, struggling to pay off student loan debt, and putting my future dreams on hold because of the shiatty economy. It's time for a change!

I'm going to vote so that my boss can pay me $3/hour and no health coverage for dangerous work with no safety regulations while paying a higher tax rate in what amounts to little more than feudal peonage for some rich asshole who drives a Ferrari purchased with all the money that I made for him. Then I can die alone and penniless at age 43 when I can't afford medical care for a simple infection that ravages my body and cooks me alive.

Or better yet, why don't I just set my balls on fire. Changeariffic!
 
2012-08-15 02:28:12 PM
In his latest poll, Obama receives just 49 percent of the youth vote when pitted against Romney, who received 41 percent. In another question, the independent candidacy of Gary Johnson is included, and here Obama wins 50 percent, Romney 38 percent and Johnson 5 percent.

This is just sad. Are they really considering a loss by 8 points a victory for the Republican Party?

Talk about desperate...
 
2012-08-15 02:28:24 PM
FTFA: Pollster John Zogby of JZ Analytics

I'm assuming this poll took place in the cafeteria at the Ronald Reagan Private School for Republican Youth?
 
2012-08-15 02:29:00 PM
Given the choice between shiat sandwich and sodomized with a kitchen knife, I think the choice is pretty obvious.
 
2012-08-15 02:29:27 PM

Agneska: But but but Obama is so cool. How can this be?


And Romney has to offer...?
 
2012-08-15 02:29:28 PM
Yup, Romney and Ryan are hip and with it. They keep the funky fresh steeze that I needs to sees for the presidencies.
They speak my lingo, they know 'whats up' with my demographic. Im gonna vote the shiat out of them come november.
wait... romney is a mormon?
whatever, i loved cannibal the musical.
 
2012-08-15 02:30:18 PM

Blue_Blazer: What do you think should be done about the student loan debt issue?


Honestly? Amend the statute which excludes student loans from the types of debt that can be discharged... you don't have to allow discharge in all case, but you could at least put a ceiling on non-dischargeability or make it easier to establish hardship cases.
 
2012-08-15 02:30:57 PM
Lessee... the party that is obstructing and hindering the recovery in every way possible doesn't want to be blamed for hindering the recovery?

Weird man, just weird.
 
2012-08-15 02:31:11 PM
Change comes from within.
 
2012-08-15 02:31:16 PM
...so does this mean if i vote for Gary Johnson it'll be counted as a vote lost for Romney instead of Obama?

also

/Republicans think they will have the youth vote.

i2.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-08-15 02:31:37 PM
Look, I'm part of the sub 30 crowd. As much as Obama's administration has been a disappointment, Romney's campaign so far leads me to believe that the gutting of government would lead us back into the early 1800s.

I don't want to live in the early 1800s.
 
2012-08-15 02:31:44 PM
Zogby speculates that Romney's selection of 42-year-old Rep. Paul Ryan helped turn more younger voters to him. "It could be his youthfulness," said Zogby of Ryan. Plus, he said, more younger voters are becoming libertarian, distrustful of current elected officials and worried that they are going to get stuck with the nation's looming fiscal bill.

Because more libertarian means more GOP voters...or something.

I mean who else can we trust more than a governor for President and a guy who worked in the public sector right out of college as vice president?

These assumptions they are making are HILARIOUS!
 
2012-08-15 02:31:50 PM

EnviroDude: With the prospect of no chance for a job after graduation and being saddled with decades of student loans is this a shock to anyone?


When are the jobs, Speaker Boehner

Oh and, these are the guys voting against the American Jobs Act.
 
2012-08-15 02:32:30 PM
But their desire for hope and change has turned to disillusionment and unemployment. Zogby calls them "CENGAs" for "college-educated, not going anywhere."

It is definitely hard out there for young people coming out of college these past 5 years or so, I can see why kids are not happy with the way things are going. Pretty sure Romney isn't the guy to fix it but I can sure see why they aren't happy.
 
2012-08-15 02:32:41 PM

imashark: Look, I'm part of the sub 30 crowd. As much as Obama's administration has been a disappointment, Romney's campaign so far leads me to believe that the gutting of government would lead us back into the early 1800s.

I don't want to live in the early 1800s.


I do. I'd farking invent tons of shiat and become a billionaire.
 
2012-08-15 02:33:48 PM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: imashark: Look, I'm part of the sub 30 crowd. As much as Obama's administration has been a disappointment, Romney's campaign so far leads me to believe that the gutting of government would lead us back into the early 1800s.

I don't want to live in the early 1800s.

I do. I'd farking invent tons of shiat and become a billionaire.


Well, duh. Except this would be the 1800s where everything now has a patent.
 
2012-08-15 02:34:39 PM

Blue_Blazer: EnviroDude: With the prospect of no chance for a job after graduation and being saddled with decades of student loans is this a shock to anyone?

Obamasmagictimemachine.jpg

Some of us younger people voted for President Obama and continue to believe he is the best available choice.

What do you think should be done about the student loan debt issue?


my guess is he'll say tax cuts
 
2012-08-15 02:35:30 PM

imashark: Look, I'm part of the sub 30 crowd. As much as Obama's administration has been a disappointment, Romney's campaign so far leads me to believe that the gutting of government would lead us back into the early 1800s.

I don't want to live in the early 1800s.


I hope under-30s like you and me can get some more of our cohort on board. I'm really not trying to concern troll here, but I really think our voting bloc could end up screwing it up for Obama. I hear the term "Bush's 3rd term" come up among my friends much more often than I would like.
 
2012-08-15 02:36:33 PM
Is it really that hard to believe? Obama hasn't lived up to the hype, because no one could have.
 
2012-08-15 02:36:43 PM

Mrtraveler01: In his latest poll, Obama receives just 49 percent of the youth vote when pitted against Romney, who received 41 percent. In another question, the independent candidacy of Gary Johnson is included, and here Obama wins 50 percent, Romney 38 percent and Johnson 5 percent.

This is just sad. Are they really considering a loss by 8 points a victory for the Republican Party?

Talk about desperate...


I am amused that Obama's numbers go up if Gary Johnson is involved. Implies two things; one, Johnson would be pulling voters from Mitt Romney, and two, Johnson actually motivates people to vote for Obama.
 
2012-08-15 02:37:34 PM

Mrtraveler01: This is just sad. Are they really considering a loss by 8 points a victory for the Republican Party?


I love it. Heavily biased poll, heavily biased article - and behind the smokescreen of bullshiat, he's still getting his ass kicked.

Makes me wonder just how wide the gap really is.
 
2012-08-15 02:38:23 PM

indylaw: Blue_Blazer: What do you think should be done about the student loan debt issue?

Honestly? Amend the statute which excludes student loans from the types of debt that can be discharged... you don't have to allow discharge in all case, but you could at least put a ceiling on non-dischargeability or make it easier to establish hardship cases.


That sounds far too reasonable to have any hope of it happening.

Where can I sign up for your newsletter?
 
2012-08-15 02:39:26 PM

The Name: imashark: Look, I'm part of the sub 30 crowd. As much as Obama's administration has been a disappointment, Romney's campaign so far leads me to believe that the gutting of government would lead us back into the early 1800s.

I don't want to live in the early 1800s.

I hope under-30s like you and me can get some more of our cohort on board. I'm really not trying to concern troll here, but I really think our voting bloc could end up screwing it up for Obama. I hear the term "Bush's 3rd term" come up among my friends much more often than I would like.


Maybe it's a difference between young men and young women, but most of the young women I know are fired up to vote for Obama and against Romney and the Republican war on women.

They are PISSED at Republicans.
 
2012-08-15 02:39:38 PM
It's a black fly in your Chardonnay
It's a death row pardon two minutes too late
It's like rain on your wedding day
It's a free ride when you've already paid
 
2012-08-15 02:42:17 PM

meat0918: but most of the young women I know are fired up to vote for Obama and against Romney and the Republican war on women.


Your mom's bridge club?

Wars involve shooting people and breaking things, not making someone pay for their own contraception if they want to fark.
 
2012-08-15 02:42:38 PM
So what? Cynicism comes eventually. Youth is wasted on the young.
 
2012-08-15 02:42:58 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-08-15 02:43:09 PM
They really don't have a higher-def picture of the chart? I could barely read it.
 
2012-08-15 02:44:15 PM

imashark: The All-Powerful Atheismo: imashark: Look, I'm part of the sub 30 crowd. As much as Obama's administration has been a disappointment, Romney's campaign so far leads me to believe that the gutting of government would lead us back into the early 1800s.

I don't want to live in the early 1800s.

I do. I'd farking invent tons of shiat and become a billionaire.

Well, duh. Except this would be the 1800s where everything now has a patent.


Well fine, then. I'd punch John Wilkes Booth's mother in the stomach while she was pregnant.
 
2012-08-15 02:44:42 PM
Sure Obama has not been the messiah that the teabaggers think some people think he is, but do you really want Mitt and Ryan?
 
2012-08-15 02:45:40 PM

meat0918: The Name: imashark: Look, I'm part of the sub 30 crowd. As much as Obama's administration has been a disappointment, Romney's campaign so far leads me to believe that the gutting of government would lead us back into the early 1800s.

I don't want to live in the early 1800s.

I hope under-30s like you and me can get some more of our cohort on board. I'm really not trying to concern troll here, but I really think our voting bloc could end up screwing it up for Obama. I hear the term "Bush's 3rd term" come up among my friends much more often than I would like.

Maybe it's a difference between young men and young women, but most of the young women I know are fired up to vote for Obama and against Romney and the Republican war on women.

They are PISSED at Republicans.


Not to mention the wars on gays and Muslims non-Christians. Then again, the primary reason I'm voting for Obama is his ideas make much more sense economically. If only Congress could actually work and pass something useful.
 
2012-08-15 02:46:23 PM
In his latest poll, Obama receives just 49 percent of the youth vote when pitted against Romney, who received 41 percent. In another question, the independent candidacy of Gary Johnson is included, and here Obama wins 50 percent, Romney 38 percent and Johnson 5 percent.

The Johnson factor is bad news ...for Romney.

/Meh, Obama will win the youth vote handily enough.
 
2012-08-15 02:47:23 PM

Death_Poot: meat0918: but most of the young women I know are fired up to vote for Obama and against Romney and the Republican war on women.

Your mom's bridge club?

Wars involve shooting people and breaking things, not making someone pay for their own contraception if they want to fark.


No, these college age women that watch what happened in Virginia forced and coerced transvaginal ultrasounds and Texas cutting funding for women's health clinics, watched the Planned Parenthood lies being spread, watched as anti-abortion bills that do not make exceptions for health of the mother, rape, or incest get passed and proposed in state after state.

Mom's bridge club is full of creationist bible thumpers that think having insurance companies offer birth control to all women on any plan is the greatest affront to religious liberty ever!
 
2012-08-15 02:48:30 PM

qorkfiend: Mrtraveler01: In his latest poll, Obama receives just 49 percent of the youth vote when pitted against Romney, who received 41 percent. In another question, the independent candidacy of Gary Johnson is included, and here Obama wins 50 percent, Romney 38 percent and Johnson 5 percent.

This is just sad. Are they really considering a loss by 8 points a victory for the Republican Party?

Talk about desperate...

I am amused that Obama's numbers go up if Gary Johnson is involved. Implies two things; one, Johnson would be pulling voters from Mitt Romney, and two, Johnson actually motivates people to vote for Obama.


I'm on the fence between Johnson and Obama. I feel Obama has had such opposition that some of the seeds he laid his first term might end up coming to fruition, his healthcare mandate and other things will start moving forward. But there is always the radical regressionist / obstructionist congress standing in the way of having any plans work.

Johnson is a new deal, but some of the things he has said could deregulate and pave the way for more vulture capitalists like Romney to prosper. Only by exposing them before they can exploit the american people would this be a good thing, but i fear we turn a blind eye too often to their evil. In the eyes of a Johnson supporter, Romney is the bad side of what we want to happen. He will take good ideas and twist them to his own personal gain.

Give the man a little more time, or roll the dice? Either way Romney is an absolute no go.
 
2012-08-15 02:49:01 PM

quatchi:
The Johnson factor


Johnson?
 
2012-08-15 02:49:24 PM
I'm 21. I will vote a straight Democratic ticket even though I'm in Arkansas which doesn't have a chance in hell of going blue. Could we fix the electoral college situation so my vote actually matters? It's hard to get motivated to go vote when these teabagging farks are everywhere I look.

These bastards got to live a glorious life and they get mad at us for trying to have any semblance of fun. Imagine someone born in 1946 as a baby boomer. You are 14 years old when 1960 starts. You get the summer of love and all that fun stuff. Then the joys of the 70s which as I understand it were like 60's part 2 but a little cornier, fun all the same. Next comes the 80's where these guys all sell out their souls and our countries just to add another quarter gram of cocaine to their pockets. Now the 90's happen and they all ride this sweet tech bubble. In 2000 things slowly start to wane until in 2008 they crash. I think they should have to bear with the consequences of their self indulgent lifestyles but we're the ones catching the problems via this terrible economy, unfair tax system, etc. Enjoy that 15% capital gains rate you old farks.

Maybe I'm all wrong and that was a mindless rant but that's the way it feels.
 
2012-08-15 02:49:49 PM

Blue_Blazer: What do you think should be done about the student loan debt issue?


Stop taunting him. You know he can't generate original thought.
 
2012-08-15 02:50:08 PM
I'm 28, and all in for Obama. the other side is a bunch of sociopaths who want to turn the middle and lower classes into serfs.

also, if your fresh out of college, and looking for a job in beautiful Austin Texas, We are hiring. SQL, C#, python, or good experience with banking or project management are major pluses.
 
2012-08-15 02:51:05 PM

meat0918: Death_Poot: meat0918: but most of the young women I know are fired up to vote for Obama and against Romney and the Republican war on women.

Your mom's bridge club?

Wars involve shooting people and breaking things, not making someone pay for their own contraception if they want to fark.

No, these college age women that watch what happened in Virginia forced and coerced transvaginal ultrasounds and Texas cutting funding for women's health clinics, watched the Planned Parenthood lies being spread, watched as anti-abortion bills that do not make exceptions for health of the mother, rape, or incest get passed and proposed in state after state.

Mom's bridge club is full of creationist bible thumpers that think having insurance companies offer birth control to all women on any plan is the greatest affront to religious liberty ever!


At least stop calling it a war, because it isnt one.
 
2012-08-15 02:52:03 PM
Oh and by the way Obama has disappointed me on many fronts namely civil liberties. The NSA is still intercepting all of our communications, Gitmo is still around (granted this is more of congress's fault), and his promise to curb the crack downs on medical marijuana dispensaries looks to be false. That said I recognize that he is only one man. One man who has had to deal with the do-nothingest, most stubborn group of assholes in congress since Truman
 
2012-08-15 02:52:15 PM

Mrtraveler01: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: EnviroDude: With the prospect of no chance for a job after graduation and being saddled with decades of student loans is this a shock to anyone?

R's have been saying for 4 years that kids won't turn out to vote. Now they're trumpeting the fact that 40% of them hate their guy less. Weird.

40%?

Well this is just bad news for Obama.

/24
//Voting for Obama
///Not voting for the current group of assclowns which consist of the modern Republican Party and probably won't in my lifetime if they keep acting like this


Don't kid yourself, kid. It's just one party pretending to be two parties. Other than Obama and Romney, nobody in DC cares who wins, since the same people who own the Dems also own the Repubs.

Unless you really want a government that robs you of every dollar they can, takes away what little freedom you have left, spies on you, warehouses all of your electronic communications and financial transactions, puts Israel's interests ahead of America's, ignores government corruption and police brutality, and throws pot smoking cancer patients in jail, don't vote for either party, because that's what they both stand for.
 
2012-08-15 02:53:03 PM
Well, if you young ones want war, be sure and vote for Romney. You'll be in Iran faster than you can say "College deferment" or "Oil profits".

Good luck getting anything other than war, tax cuts for the rich, transfer of wealth (in the wrong direction) from those hopey-changey Republicans.

BTW, since Iran is 4 times larger than Iraq and we put 1.5 million military personnel into Iraq, there will be a draft for this next war. Or did you think those college tuition rates were escalating because of rising costs? Maybe those tuition increases will make it possible to draft a lot of cannon fodder who would have otherwise enrolled in college to gain a draft deferment.

Yeah, good luck with those compassionate conservatives.

/my tinfoil hat? today it is a mighty hat, a foil fedora with tinsel feather in the band
 
2012-08-15 02:53:36 PM

imashark: Look, I'm part of the sub 30 crowd. As much as Obama's administration has been a disappointment, Romney's campaign so far leads me to believe that the gutting of government would lead us back into the early 1800s.

I don't want to live in the early 1800s.


What on Earth makes you think that Romney wants to gut the government?
 
2012-08-15 02:54:02 PM

Death_Poot: meat0918: but most of the young women I know are fired up to vote for Obama and against Romney and the Republican war on women.

Your mom's bridge club?

Wars involve shooting people and breaking things, not making someone pay for their own contraception if they want to fark.


You should go tell LBJ that his War On Poverty was a misnomer (unless we start gunning down poor people. No, Mr Romney, we're not gonna do that).

Or Nixon/Reagan's War on Drugs (we're not firing weapons at the drugs. Just the minorities who use them).

Or Bush's War on Terra (if he wanted to be grammatically correct, he'd have termed it a "War on Terrorists", or even just have gotten Congress to declare actual war on an actual country).

Or any of the other BS "wars" politicians have waged - local, regional and national - on ideas. You can be butthurt 50-60 years after common parlance has ingested the meaning of "waging war" on concepts like poverty, drug use and womens' rights, or you can accept why they're used.

And yes Virginia, removing womens' abilities to make their own healthcare choices - especially when those choices mean higher risks to life and good health - is very easily a "war" on women.

// what do you call that kids' card game, Death_Pedant? "One-Draw High-Card (With a Chance to Win 4 More Cards, if After Drawing 3 More Face Down, the 4th is Higher)"?
// was your favorite Star Wars actor "[redacted]wick Davis"?
 
2012-08-15 02:54:33 PM

Boudica's War Tampon: Well, if you young ones want war, be sure and vote for Romney. You'll be in Iran faster than you can say "College deferment" or "Oil profits".

Good luck getting anything other than war, tax cuts for the rich, transfer of wealth (in the wrong direction) from those hopey-changey Republicans.

BTW, since Iran is 4 times larger than Iraq and we put 1.5 million military personnel into Iraq, there will be a draft for this next war. Or did you think those college tuition rates were escalating because of rising costs? Maybe those tuition increases will make it possible to draft a lot of cannon fodder who would have otherwise enrolled in college to gain a draft deferment.

Yeah, good luck with those compassionate conservatives.

/my tinfoil hat? today it is a mighty hat, a foil fedora with tinsel feather in the band


I get the funny feeling that war with Iran is inevitable.....................
 
2012-08-15 02:54:41 PM

meat0918: Maybe it's a difference between young men and young women, but most of the young women I know are fired up to vote for Obama and against Romney and the Republican war on women. They are PISSED at Republicans.


Cheesus: Not to mention the wars on gays and Muslims non-Christians.


I can't speak for others, but for me: Yep. If it weren't for the Wars on Everyone Who's Not A Straight White Male, I probably wouldn't care too much about the election - Santorum got me to sit up and take notice and Rush cemented me as a firm Obama supporter. Good work, fellas, you sure earned those paychecks.

/Gay atheist woman.
//Both a walking stereotype and the mortal enemy of the Tea Party.
///Their economic policies blow goat cock too, but I didn't pay attention to that before.
 
2012-08-15 02:55:11 PM
Sick of single issue pot smokers fellating Johnson. He's a farking catastrophe who supports the Ryan budget; put the farking bong down people.
 
2012-08-15 02:55:40 PM

Hueg_Redd: I'm 21. I will vote a straight Democratic ticket even though I'm in Arkansas which doesn't have a chance in hell of going blue. Could we fix the electoral college situation so my vote actually matters? It's hard to get motivated to go vote when these teabagging farks are everywhere I look.

These bastards got to live a glorious life and they get mad at us for trying to have any semblance of fun. Imagine someone born in 1946 as a baby boomer. You are 14 years old when 1960 starts. You get the summer of love and all that fun stuff. Then the joys of the 70s which as I understand it were like 60's part 2 but a little cornier, fun all the same. Next comes the 80's where these guys all sell out their souls and our countries just to add another quarter gram of cocaine to their pockets. Now the 90's happen and they all ride this sweet tech bubble. In 2000 things slowly start to wane until in 2008 they crash. I think they should have to bear with the consequences of their self indulgent lifestyles but we're the ones catching the problems via this terrible economy, unfair tax system, etc. Enjoy that 15% capital gains rate you old farks.

Maybe I'm all wrong and that was a mindless rant but that's the way it feels.


Its weird if you look at how the baby boomer cohort's personality became expressed in culture throughout the years, they seem rather... selfish, right?
 
2012-08-15 02:56:30 PM

Fluorescent Testicle: ... Wars on Everyone Who's Not A Straight White

Christian Male ...

/FTFM.
//Missed a word.
 
2012-08-15 02:56:42 PM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: imashark: The All-Powerful Atheismo: imashark: Look, I'm part of the sub 30 crowd. As much as Obama's administration has been a disappointment, Romney's campaign so far leads me to believe that the gutting of government would lead us back into the early 1800s.

I don't want to live in the early 1800s.

I do. I'd farking invent tons of shiat and become a billionaire.

Well, duh. Except this would be the 1800s where everything now has a patent.

Well fine, then. I'd punch John Wilkes Booth's mother in the stomach while she was pregnant.


You might be able to pull a double-whammy and get Hitler's mother too, if you chose the right years.
 
2012-08-15 02:58:02 PM

Expolaris: ...so does this mean if i vote for Gary Johnson it'll be counted as a vote lost for Romney instead of Obama?

also

/Republicans think they will have the youth vote.

[i2.kym-cdn.com image 363x310]


They don't need to get the youth vote. They just need Obama to not get the youth vote. Obama is doing a great job driving them to not bother voting in November.
 
2012-08-15 02:58:37 PM

Dr Dreidel: Death_Poot: meat0918: but most of the young women I know are fired up to vote for Obama and against Romney and the Republican war on women.

Your mom's bridge club?

Wars involve shooting people and breaking things, not making someone pay for their own contraception if they want to fark.

You should go tell LBJ that his War On Poverty was a misnomer (unless we start gunning down poor people. No, Mr Romney, we're not gonna do that).

Or Nixon/Reagan's War on Drugs (we're not firing weapons at the drugs. Just the minorities who use them).

Or Bush's War on Terra (if he wanted to be grammatically correct, he'd have termed it a "War on Terrorists", or even just have gotten Congress to declare actual war on an actual country).

Or any of the other BS "wars" politicians have waged - local, regional and national - on ideas. You can be butthurt 50-60 years after common parlance has ingested the meaning of "waging war" on concepts like poverty, drug use and womens' rights, or you can accept why they're used.

And yes Virginia, removing womens' abilities to make their own healthcare choices - especially when those choices mean higher risks to life and good health - is very easily a "war" on women.

// what do you call that kids' card game, Death_Pedant? "One-Draw High-Card (With a Chance to Win 4 More Cards, if After Drawing 3 More Face Down, the 4th is Higher)"?
// was your favorite Star Wars actor "[redacted]wick Davis"?


You should clean the froth from the corners of your mouth, you look foolish.

I actually agree with most of your rant. The term "War on (whatever)" is foolish when you're talking political causes. It makes you sound like a demagogue at best, an idiot at worst.
 
2012-08-15 02:58:42 PM

Fluorescent Testicle: Makes me wonder just how wide the gap really is.


You should know by now to never, ever ask that about a Republican.
 
2012-08-15 02:59:28 PM

EnviroDude: With the prospect of no chance for a job after graduation and being saddled with decades of student loans is this a shock to anyone?


While I'm not saying that the environment for recent college grads is great, or even good, I feel compelled to inject a dose of reality and sense here by saying that whatever the unemployment rate among 18-29 year old's, it is not even close to 100% which is where it would have to be to say that they have 'no chance for a job'. It's not even 50 or I'm pretty darned sure not even 25% for that age demographic. In fact, I'd wager that, at most, it is in the mid-teens for that demographic as a whole. So, really, on average, they have quite a good chance for a job actually.

/clearly room for improvement, though.
 
2012-08-15 03:00:27 PM

Death_Poot: Dr Dreidel: Death_Poot: meat0918: but most of the young women I know are fired up to vote for Obama and against Romney and the Republican war on women.

Your mom's bridge club?

Wars involve shooting people and breaking things, not making someone pay for their own contraception if they want to fark.

You should go tell LBJ that his War On Poverty was a misnomer (unless we start gunning down poor people. No, Mr Romney, we're not gonna do that).

Or Nixon/Reagan's War on Drugs (we're not firing weapons at the drugs. Just the minorities who use them).

Or Bush's War on Terra (if he wanted to be grammatically correct, he'd have termed it a "War on Terrorists", or even just have gotten Congress to declare actual war on an actual country).

Or any of the other BS "wars" politicians have waged - local, regional and national - on ideas. You can be butthurt 50-60 years after common parlance has ingested the meaning of "waging war" on concepts like poverty, drug use and womens' rights, or you can accept why they're used.

And yes Virginia, removing womens' abilities to make their own healthcare choices - especially when those choices mean higher risks to life and good health - is very easily a "war" on women.

// what do you call that kids' card game, Death_Pedant? "One-Draw High-Card (With a Chance to Win 4 More Cards, if After Drawing 3 More Face Down, the 4th is Higher)"?
// was your favorite Star Wars actor "[redacted]wick Davis"?

You should clean the froth from the corners of your mouth, you look foolish.

I actually agree with most of your rant. The term "War on (whatever)" is foolish when you're talking political causes. It makes you sound like a demagogue at best, an idiot at worst.


Hey, I don't like using it either, but it is a quick enough short hand that will make people know what you are talking about.

I have a proposal though. Can we drop the "-gate" from every scandal while we are at it?
 
2012-08-15 03:01:58 PM

DrPainMD: imashark: Look, I'm part of the sub 30 crowd. As much as Obama's administration has been a disappointment, Romney's campaign so far leads me to believe that the gutting of government would lead us back into the early 1800s.

I don't want to live in the early 1800s.

What on Earth makes you think that Romney wants to gut the government?


Well, when I say "gut the government," I mean gut the parts that everyone seems to get real use out of. From gutting corporate regulations, to social services programs (including education), to heath programs, to the social safety net...

The only parts that he seems real interested in maintaining or making larger are related to the defense industry.
 
2012-08-15 03:02:02 PM

Death_Poot: meat0918: Death_Poot: meat0918: but most of the young women I know are fired up to vote for Obama and against Romney and the Republican war on women.

Your mom's bridge club?

Wars involve shooting people and breaking things, not making someone pay for their own contraception if they want to fark.

No, these college age women that watch what happened in Virginia forced and coerced transvaginal ultrasounds and Texas cutting funding for women's health clinics, watched the Planned Parenthood lies being spread, watched as anti-abortion bills that do not make exceptions for health of the mother, rape, or incest get passed and proposed in state after state.

Mom's bridge club is full of creationist bible thumpers that think having insurance companies offer birth control to all women on any plan is the greatest affront to religious liberty ever!

At least stop calling it a war, because it isnt one.


This sums up my thoughts.

Everything is a war if Democrats are against it. But if Republicans are against it, calling it a war is outrageous.
 
2012-08-15 03:02:06 PM

meat0918: Death_Poot: Dr Dreidel: Death_Poot: meat0918: but most of the young women I know are fired up to vote for Obama and against Romney and the Republican war on women.

Your mom's bridge club?

Wars involve shooting people and breaking things, not making someone pay for their own contraception if they want to fark.

You should go tell LBJ that his War On Poverty was a misnomer (unless we start gunning down poor people. No, Mr Romney, we're not gonna do that).

Or Nixon/Reagan's War on Drugs (we're not firing weapons at the drugs. Just the minorities who use them).

Or Bush's War on Terra (if he wanted to be grammatically correct, he'd have termed it a "War on Terrorists", or even just have gotten Congress to declare actual war on an actual country).

Or any of the other BS "wars" politicians have waged - local, regional and national - on ideas. You can be butthurt 50-60 years after common parlance has ingested the meaning of "waging war" on concepts like poverty, drug use and womens' rights, or you can accept why they're used.

And yes Virginia, removing womens' abilities to make their own healthcare choices - especially when those choices mean higher risks to life and good health - is very easily a "war" on women.

// what do you call that kids' card game, Death_Pedant? "One-Draw High-Card (With a Chance to Win 4 More Cards, if After Drawing 3 More Face Down, the 4th is Higher)"?
// was your favorite Star Wars actor "[redacted]wick Davis"?

You should clean the froth from the corners of your mouth, you look foolish.

I actually agree with most of your rant. The term "War on (whatever)" is foolish when you're talking political causes. It makes you sound like a demagogue at best, an idiot at worst.

Hey, I don't like using it either, but it is a quick enough short hand that will make people know what you are talking about.

I have a proposal though. Can we drop the "-gate" from every scandal while we are at it?


Agreed..............
 
2012-08-15 03:03:56 PM

Death_Poot: I have a proposal though. Can we drop the "-gate" from every scandal while we are at it?

Agreed..............



You propose beginning "-gate"-gate?
 
2012-08-15 03:08:14 PM

Psylence: Sick of single issue pot smokers fellating Johnson. He's a farking catastrophe who supports the Ryan budget; put the farking bong down people.


I don't get why Libertarians get to claim sensible drug laws as their own. Liberals have been advocating for treatment over prosecution since as long as I can remember, liberals are also against pointless wars and military adventurism and bloated military budgets...
 
2012-08-15 03:09:15 PM

Boudica's War Tampon: Well, if you young ones want war, be sure and vote for Romney. You'll be in Iran faster than you can say "College deferment" or "Oil profits".

Good luck getting anything other than war, tax cuts for the rich, transfer of wealth (in the wrong direction) from those hopey-changey Republicans.

BTW, since Iran is 4 times larger than Iraq and we put 1.5 million military personnel into Iraq, there will be a draft for this next war. Or did you think those college tuition rates were escalating because of rising costs? Maybe those tuition increases will make it possible to draft a lot of cannon fodder who would have otherwise enrolled in college to gain a draft deferment.

Yeah, good luck with those compassionate conservatives.

/my tinfoil hat? today it is a mighty hat, a foil fedora with tinsel feather in the band


SHINY
 
2012-08-15 03:12:24 PM

Death_Poot: Dr Dreidel: Death_Poot: meat0918: but most of the young women I know are fired up to vote for Obama and against Romney and the Republican war on women.

Your mom's bridge club?

Wars involve shooting people and breaking things, not making someone pay for their own contraception if they want to fark.

...Or any of the other BS "wars" politicians have waged...

You should clean the froth from the corners of your mouth, you look foolish.

I actually agree with most of your rant. The term "War on (whatever)" is foolish when you're talking political causes. It makes you sound like a demagogue at best, an idiot at worst.


I left a hint that I agree with you. The problem is that language isn't objective. If you grok my meaning even if I use a nonstandard word like "grok", I have successfully communicated my thought to you.

It may be stupid, it may grate on your ears, it may cause you to lose a week or have an aneurysm (a la Lewis Black and a collegiate horse) - that really doesn't matter. As long as it's grammatically correct (and irregardless, sometimes that's even OK), language is largely subjective.

And political language is even worse - the same ideas are rebranded every few years, given different names; or older "successful" ideas/phrases lend their names to new ones ("-gate", or "War on", or any turn of political phrase that jumps the shark only to be thrown under the bus).
 
2012-08-15 03:13:27 PM

Hueg_Redd: I'm 21. I will vote a straight Democratic ticket even though I'm in Arkansas which doesn't have a chance in hell of going blue. Could we fix the electoral college situation so my vote actually matters? It's hard to get motivated to go vote when these teabagging farks are everywhere I look.


It's entirely possible, though not likely, that we could have an even Electoral College split this year. There are several scenarios, none completely implausible, where you'd have a 269-269 tie. The tie would be broken by Congress. If that were to happen, assuming that we didn't have riots, you'd see serious calls for presidential election reform. The Republicans would enjoy a victory but the smart ones would realize that they could just as easily be robbed if Congress were in control of the Democrats.
 
2012-08-15 03:14:58 PM

beta_plus: Expolaris: ...so does this mean if i vote for Gary Johnson it'll be counted as a vote lost for Romney instead of Obama?

also

/Republicans think they will have the youth vote.

[i2.kym-cdn.com image 363x310]

They don't need to get the youth vote. They just need Obama to not get the youth vote. Obama is doing a great job driving them to not bother voting in November.


I guess that's one way to feel better about all the conservatives that will be staying home due to Romney's lib past.
 
2012-08-15 03:15:55 PM

Death_Poot: meat0918: but most of the young women I know are fired up to vote for Obama and against Romney and the Republican war on women.

Your mom's bridge club?

Wars involve shooting people and breaking things, not making someone pay for their own contraception if they want to fark.


But is okay to cover viagra?
 
2012-08-15 03:16:55 PM

Headso: Psylence: Sick of single issue pot smokers fellating Johnson. He's a farking catastrophe who supports the Ryan budget; put the farking bong down people.

I don't get why Libertarians get to claim sensible drug laws as their own. Liberals have been advocating for treatment over prosecution since as long as I can remember, liberals are also against pointless wars and military adventurism and bloated military budgets...



Much like what just happened. People use drug laws to paint Libertarians with a broad brush, like how theyuse abortion bills for Republicans and bloated government programs for Democrats. It's the easy shot, it's a distraction holding pattern to that keeps us from talking about shiat that matters. That the 24 hour news sphere is going to keep hammering these broad stroke facts home so they don't have to report on anything real, or anything that could possibly show any politician in a bad light for actions they took.

/outside of accidentally showing your junk on the internet, now THAT is news worthy of our time, fark all these stupid bills, not like congress is going to let them pass anyways.
 
2012-08-15 03:21:30 PM

Mrtraveler01: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: EnviroDude: With the prospect of no chance for a job after graduation and being saddled with decades of student loans is this a shock to anyone?

R's have been saying for 4 years that kids won't turn out to vote. Now they're trumpeting the fact that 40% of them hate their guy less. Weird.

40%?

Well this is just bad news for Obama.

/24
//Voting for Obama
///Not voting for the current group of assclowns which consist of the modern Republican Party and probably won't in my lifetime if they keep acting like this


26, but this, and the same with everyone my age that I know save for one idiot.
 
2012-08-15 03:21:48 PM

Expolaris: Headso: Psylence: Sick of single issue pot smokers fellating Johnson. He's a farking catastrophe who supports the Ryan budget; put the farking bong down people.

I don't get why Libertarians get to claim sensible drug laws as their own. Liberals have been advocating for treatment over prosecution since as long as I can remember, liberals are also against pointless wars and military adventurism and bloated military budgets...


Much like what just happened. People use drug laws to paint Libertarians with a broad brush, like how theyuse abortion bills for Republicans and bloated government programs for Democrats. It's the easy shot, it's a distraction holding pattern to that keeps us from talking about shiat that matters. That the 24 hour news sphere is going to keep hammering these broad stroke facts home so they don't have to report on anything real, or anything that could possibly show any politician in a bad light for actions they took.

/outside of accidentally showing your junk on the internet, now THAT is news worthy of our time, fark all these stupid bills, not like congress is going to let them pass anyways.


In case you missed that with your broad brush.
 
2012-08-15 03:22:40 PM

Death_Poot: meat0918: Death_Poot: meat0918: but most of the young women I know are fired up to vote for Obama and against Romney and the Republican war on women.

Your mom's bridge club?

Wars involve shooting people and breaking things, not making someone pay for their own contraception if they want to fark.

No, these college age women that watch what happened in Virginia forced and coerced transvaginal ultrasounds and Texas cutting funding for women's health clinics, watched the Planned Parenthood lies being spread, watched as anti-abortion bills that do not make exceptions for health of the mother, rape, or incest get passed and proposed in state after state.

Mom's bridge club is full of creationist bible thumpers that think having insurance companies offer birth control to all women on any plan is the greatest affront to religious liberty ever!

At least stop calling it a war, because it isnt one.


Would coordinted persecution work?

Or "apparent" image of there unto?

I say apparent because the politicians (both sides of aisle) might nit realize the overall image projected on the country.
 
2012-08-15 03:25:47 PM

Psylence: Expolaris: Headso: Psylence: Sick of single issue pot smokers fellating Johnson. He's a farking catastrophe who supports the Ryan budget; put the farking bong down people.

I don't get why Libertarians get to claim sensible drug laws as their own. Liberals have been advocating for treatment over prosecution since as long as I can remember, liberals are also against pointless wars and military adventurism and bloated military budgets...


Much like what just happened. People use drug laws to paint Libertarians with a broad brush, like how theyuse abortion bills for Republicans and bloated government programs for Democrats. It's the easy shot, it's a distraction holding pattern to that keeps us from talking about shiat that matters. That the 24 hour news sphere is going to keep hammering these broad stroke facts home so they don't have to report on anything real, or anything that could possibly show any politician in a bad light for actions they took.

/outside of accidentally showing your junk on the internet, now THAT is news worthy of our time, fark all these stupid bills, not like congress is going to let them pass anyways.

In case you missed that with your broad brush.


Expolaris: Johnson is a new deal, but some of the things he has said could deregulate and pave the way for more vulture capitalists like Romney to prosper.


I said my hang ups about Johnson. The Ryan budget is one of the reasons i am not fully behind him, it's an atrocious plan that would ruin the country and i sincerely hope he goes in a new direction. Johnson is kind of like Ron Paul, he'll be speaking perfect sense to me for a while then throw things that make me go "hold on, wtf?".
 
2012-08-15 03:33:04 PM

Blue_Blazer: What do you think should be done about the student loan debt issue?


Educate borrowers as to what they are really signing up for, and let them make the decision to borrow or not as the adults society expects them to be.
 
2012-08-15 03:41:44 PM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: quatchi:
The Johnson factor

Johnson?


Gary.

He'll take votes away from Romney.
 
2012-08-15 03:46:30 PM

indylaw: Hueg_Redd: I'm 21. I will vote a straight Democratic ticket even though I'm in Arkansas which doesn't have a chance in hell of going blue. Could we fix the electoral college situation so my vote actually matters? It's hard to get motivated to go vote when these teabagging farks are everywhere I look.

It's entirely possible, though not likely, that we could have an even Electoral College split this year. There are several scenarios, none completely implausible, where you'd have a 269-269 tie. The tie would be broken by Congress. If that were to happen, assuming that we didn't have riots, you'd see serious calls for presidential election reform. The Republicans would enjoy a victory but the smart ones would realize that they could just as easily be robbed if Congress were in control of the Democrats.


Interesting. Never considered that possibility. Florida better not screw us over again, hopefully the Ryan budget will garner enough negative attention there.
 
2012-08-15 03:50:14 PM
*SNIFF SNIFF*

Smells like Bull****

Though, I know a whole lot of young people who are pulling for Romney.
 
2012-08-15 03:50:28 PM

Ass_Master_Flash: Blue_Blazer: What do you think should be done about the student loan debt issue?

Educate borrowers as to what they are really signing up for, and let them make the decision to borrow or not as the adults society expects them to be.


Well, there are a couple of things affecting the student debt issue, really.

1. Universities are increasing student tuition to make up for lost revenue coming from state funds.

2. The overabundance of 'student loans' (which include private student loans and public student loans) are allowing universities to increase tuition without having to worry about availability of student's finances

3. Having student loans not be 'dischargeable' through bankruptcy means that lenders give little to no scruitiny to whom they're lending to.

We can address these issues in the following ways

1. Encourage states to invest in their education systems by providing incentives for state legislatures to re-establish funding for state institutions. Or, create a penalty system that restores funding to state universities while ensuring that state intransigence doesn't go unpunished.

2. Create a charge-back system, where student tuition is only due upon getting a job, and that student's paycheck is tithed back to the university with a certain percentage (tax-deductable) such that if a student is hired, they fund the university.

3. Create a new, means-tested way of declaring bankruptcy for student loans. The idea here is that if you declare this kind of bankruptcy, each year you remain unemployed (or underemployed), the balance on the principle of your student loan would decrease by a certain increasing percentage.

This way, in order for you to truly discharge your student loan, you would have to remain poor for considerably longer than is comfortable - but if you're poor for considerably longer than is comfortable, you don't have that sword of damocles hanging over your head. If you go from poor to not poor during this time, you would be able to cancel this kind of bankruptcy and restore part of your credit rating.

This would encourage loan issuers to both take an active role in ensuring that graduates get jobs, and also force them to give more scrutiny to the ones that they're giving out.

/Just a couple of ideas
 
2012-08-15 03:54:02 PM
I know a lot of young 25 and unders who would never vote Republican (because its not the "trendy" thing) that are going to vote "for Ron Paul or something" rather than Obama because they are just now entering the job market and are underemployed.

Then there are those of us who are gainfully employed and voting for Romney.

The majority of the youth vote wont go for Romney, but its gonna be a hell of a lot closer than 2008, with the whole "hope/change" zeitgeist.

Honestly, its probably better for the Fark liberals to realize its not gonna be a sure thing for Obama, so you actually get out and do something to support his reelection, rather than just sticking your head in the ground with proclamations of a easy win.
 
2012-08-15 03:59:23 PM

Jjaro: I know a lot of young 25 and unders who would never vote Republican (because its not the "trendy" thing) that are going to vote "for Ron Paul or something" rather than Obama because they are just now entering the job market and are underemployed.

Then there are those of us who are gainfully employed and voting for Romney.

The majority of the youth vote wont go for Romney, but its gonna be a hell of a lot closer than 2008, with the whole "hope/change" zeitgeist.

Honestly, its probably better for the Fark liberals to realize its not gonna be a sure thing for Obama, so you actually get out and do something to support his reelection, rather than just sticking your head in the ground with proclamations of a easy win.


Seems like the "Fark you, I got mine" viewpoint is contagious, apparently.

Wonderful.

/Just because someone is employed doesn't mean that they're automatically going to vote for Romney
 
2012-08-15 04:03:08 PM

Jjaro: I know a lot of young 25 and unders who would never vote Republican (because its not the "trendy" thing) that are going to vote "for Ron Paul or something" rather than Obama because they are just now entering the job market and are underemployed.

Then there are those of us who are gainfully employed and voting for Romney.

The majority of the youth vote wont go for Romney, but its gonna be a hell of a lot closer than 2008, with the whole "hope/change" zeitgeist.

Honestly, its probably better for the Fark liberals to realize its not gonna be a sure thing for Obama, so you actually get out and do something to support his reelection, rather than just sticking your head in the ground with proclamations of a easy win.


So you are a young 20 something year old person working right now? If that's the case, then you must have gotten your job during the Obama Administration, correct? Do you remember how the economy was losing around 700K jobs a month during Bush's last few months?

If you got your job before Obama took over the WH, then do you think you would still have a job right now if the economy did not improve and it kept losing around 700K jobs a month during the Obama years?
 
2012-08-15 04:06:15 PM

Ass_Master_Flash: Blue_Blazer: What do you think should be done about the student loan debt issue?

Educate borrowers as to what they are really signing up for, and let them make the decision to borrow or not as the adults society expects them to be.


Sure, and that happens. But what I want to know is what to do about all the student loan debt that young people already hold?
 
2012-08-15 04:12:02 PM

Death_Poot: making someone pay for their own contraception if they want to fark.


Know how I know you don't understand what insurance is?
 
2012-08-15 04:14:43 PM
I try not to be hyperbolic, but if someone makes less than $250,000 a year, younger than 45, and is reasonably educated AND plans on voting for Romney (or really any GOP congress or senate person) I'm inclined to think they're a little forked in the head and have problems.

The modern GOP is so farked up and selfish that, in a two party system, I will voluntarily vote straight ticket Democrat no matter what. I mean the Dems could even eat a small child and I'd be, "whoa, they must have their reasons."
 
2012-08-15 04:18:56 PM

Ass_Master_Flash: Blue_Blazer: What do you think should be done about the student loan debt issue?

Educate borrowers as to what they are really signing up for, and let them make the decision to borrow or not as the adults society expects them to be.


The problem with that analysis is this: We have a system of bankruptcy in place because it provides some assurance to people who take risks. Start a business with your savings and it fails? You can declare bankruptcy so that you aren't hounded by your business creditors for the rest of your life. Buy a house and then lose your job? You can declare bankruptcy and move on with your life.

No one knows for sure what is going to happen when we make an investment. It could pan out. It might not. And we've long recognized that there's value in giving people some relief if they fall into insolvency, while providing an orderly way for creditors to get back some of their losses. It's called bankruptcy. And you can discharge most debts in bankruptcy. Owe $50,000 to your business vendor? You can discharge it. Owe $100,000 for a truck? You can discharge it. Owe $200,000 for your personal house, you can discharge it.

But you can't discharge student loans. Not unless you demonstrate that you're disabled and you won't ever be able to get a job where you can pay it back. You're always saddled with them, until you die. Get an advanced degree in computer science and then have the tech industry fall out from under you or offshored to Indians who will work for $50 a day? Too bad, you're stuck paying off massive loans forever. Go finance another degree that might become useless, or work at Starbucks and accept the fact that you are a slave.

You're referring to people that get useless degrees from for-profit colleges and are saddled with debt. Yeah, that happens, and yeah, some of those investments are foolish. But many people are stuck with student debt from law school or med school or legitimate grad programs in sciences for which they thought jobs would exist. And they can't move on. It's not that they didn't understand what they were getting into. It's that the returns they were expecting failed to materialize and they're stuck under tens of thousands of dollars of debt they can't repay the interest on.

Congress supposedly created the student loan exception because many professionals were going to school to get their advanced degrees and then declaring bankruptcy right away so they didn't have to pay, regardless of their ability to get a job. But that's not the situation now. Unless we want an entire class of people in debt in perpetuity because they dared to pursue an education and found their degrees were not in demand, we need to loosen up the rules.
 
2012-08-15 04:24:32 PM

Mercutio74: FTFA: Pollster John Zogby of JZ Analytics

I'm assuming this poll took place in the cafeteria at the Ronald Reagan Private School for Republican Youth?


Catchy logo though.

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-08-15 04:30:08 PM
b>hugram:

So you are a young 20 something year old person working right now? If that's the case, then you must have gotten your job during the Obama Administration, correct? Do you remember how the economy was losing around 700K jobs a month during Bush's last few months?

If you got your job before Obama took over the WH, then do you think you would still have a job right now if the economy did not improve and it kept losing around 700K jobs a month during the Obama years?


I don't see how that is relevant. Are you asking me if Obama farked up/slowed down the recovery more than he already did would I have the same job I have now? I don't know if I would. I'm not a psychic.

imashark: Jjaro: I know a lot of young 25 and unders who would never vote Republican (because its not the "trendy" thing) that are going to vote "for Ron Paul or something" rather than Obama because they are just now entering the job market and are underemployed.

Then there are those of us who are gainfully employed and voting for Romney.

The majority of the youth vote wont go for Romney, but its gonna be a hell of a lot closer than 2008, with the whole "hope/change" zeitgeist.

Honestly, its probably better for the Fark liberals to realize its not gonna be a sure thing for Obama, so you actually get out and do something to support his reelection, rather than just sticking your head in the ground with proclamations of a easy win.

Seems like the "Fark you, I got mine" viewpoint is contagious, apparently.

Wonderful.

/Just because someone is employed doesn't mean that they're automatically going to vote for Romney


I never said that. In fact I said the majority of the under 25s are not going to vote for Obama. All I said that the majority of my friends-who are, I will admit, more educated/offer more to companies than most under 25 year olds-are not voting for him.

Recent graduates from tier 2 and tier 3 colleges, and those who didn't go to college however, do seem to be all Obama, if my Facebook feed is any indicator.
 
2012-08-15 04:33:02 PM

imashark: Ass_Master_Flash: Blue_Blazer: What do you think should be done about the student loan debt issue?

First off, thank you. This is fark, and to get a rational response to anything amazes me.

Educate borrowers as to what they are really signing up for, and let them make the decision to borrow or not as the adults society expects them to be.

Well, there are a couple of things affecting the student debt issue, really.

1. Universities are increasing student tuition to make up for lost revenue coming from state funds. Which is a fair response.

2. The overabundance of 'student loans' (which include private student loans and public student loans) are allowing universities to increase tuition without having to worry about availability of student's finances The easy money created a false market for their overpriced goods, which is higher education

3. Having student loans not be 'dischargeable' through bankruptcy means that lenders give little to no scruitiny to whom they're lending to. No argument there, government interference in the marketplace lessened the risk to lenders which allowed them to over sell loans, now they want us to subsidize their losses or put lenders in hock for the rest of their lives..

We can address these issues in the following ways

1. Encourage states to invest in their education systems by providing incentives for state legislatures to re-establish funding for state institutions. Or, create a penalty system that restores funding to state universities while ensuring that state intransigence doesn't go unpunished. Why should the federal government get involved in state budgets by dictating incentives or penalties? States should be allowed to invest or not invest in higher education as they see fit, or realistically, as they can afford it. If a state has a sub par higher education system, students will move to states with better systems and those states will reap the rewards of their investments.

2. Create a charge-back system, where student tuition is only due upon getting a job, and that student's paycheck is tithed back to the university with a certain percentage (tax-deductable) such that if a student is hired, they fund the university. Could this system be turned around? Would universities only accept loans and tuition for majors that have a higher graduation to job rate if this plan were implemented? Also, what responsibility does the university have for getting you a job after you graduate? This plan takes all the personal responsibility and the risk of the individual getting the degree takes on by going to a university. Higher education is a choice and a risk. it should not be taken lightly

3. Create a new, means-tested way of declaring bankruptcy for student loans. The idea here is that if you declare this kind of bankruptcy, each year you remain unemployed (or underemployed), the balance on the principle of your student loan would decrease by a certain increasing percentage. This sounds reasonable, but I would go all the way and make it fully BK able. That way the banks will think twice about lending wildly if there is a possibility that they could be completely shafted if they make bad loans

This way, in order for you to truly discharge your student loan, you would have to remain poor for considerably longer than is comfortable - but if you're poor for considerably longer than is comfortable, you don't have that sword of damocles hanging over your head. If you go from poor to not poor during this time, you would be ...


I would further say higher education is a over inflated market. I think if we treated it like a commodity and consumed it more intelligently (use community colleges, lessen time at 4 year school, work while in school, encourage majors that have high job rates) universities would have to compete to attract students and would have a stabilizing effect on tuition. You can get a college education without having to go into ridiculous debt. It is not easy, but it can be done.

/not an economy major, just my 2 cents
 
2012-08-15 04:47:12 PM
Obama energized young voters in 2008 with his promise of hope and change.

It isn't so much the number of young people who support Romney - though that number is a strong one - that matters, it'll be the difficulty of getting those still inclined toward Obama to actually work up the enthusiasm to vote.
 
2012-08-15 04:48:53 PM

Jjaro: b>hugram:

So you are a young 20 something year old person working right now? If that's the case, then you must have gotten your job during the Obama Administration, correct? Do you remember how the economy was losing around 700K jobs a month during Bush's last few months?

If you got your job before Obama took over the WH, then do you think you would still have a job right now if the economy did not improve and it kept losing around 700K jobs a month during the Obama years?

I don't see how that is relevant. Are you asking me if Obama farked up/slowed down the recovery more than he already did would I have the same job I have now? I don't know if I would. I'm not a psychic.


Since you did not answer my question on when you got your job, here is the point I was trying to make... If my assumption is correct that you are a 20 something year old person, then most likely you got your good paying job during the Obama administration... you know, when the economy started picking up and private companies started to hire new people. If that's true, then I'm also going to assume that you have a 401K. The markets has recovered nicely under Obama and so your 401K has seen a nice return during the last 3 years or so.

So, the economy tanked under Bush. The economy picked up under Obama... you got your job during (assuming here since you did not tell me when you got it) the Obama's administration and yet this is not good enough for you... and so you will vote for Romney, the guy from the same party that gave us Bush... you know, the guy who was President when the economy tanked.
 
2012-08-15 04:51:27 PM
i am not young, but i would like to see something completely different than our current experience in the 21st century
 
2012-08-15 04:54:23 PM

hugram: Jjaro: b>hugram:

So you are a young 20 something year old person working right now? If that's the case, then you must have gotten your job during the Obama Administration, correct? Do you remember how the economy was losing around 700K jobs a month during Bush's last few months?

If you got your job before Obama took over the WH, then do you think you would still have a job right now if the economy did not improve and it kept losing around 700K jobs a month during the Obama years?

I don't see how that is relevant. Are you asking me if Obama farked up/slowed down the recovery more than he already did would I have the same job I have now? I don't know if I would. I'm not a psychic.

Since you did not answer my question on when you got your job, here is the point I was trying to make... If my assumption is correct that you are a 20 something year old person, then most likely you got your good paying job during the Obama administration... you know, when the economy started picking up and private companies started to hire new people. If that's true, then I'm also going to assume that you have a 401K. The markets has recovered nicely under Obama and so your 401K has seen a nice return during the last 3 years or so.

So, the economy tanked under Bush. The economy picked up under Obama... you got your job during (assuming here since you did not tell me when you got it) the Obama's administration and yet this is not good enough for you... and so you will vote for Romney, the guy from the same party that gave us Bush... you know, the guy who was President when the economy tanked.


The economy did not tank because of Bush, and it did not pick up because of Obama.

And even if it did tank because of Bush, saying I wouldn't vote for someone simply because they are of the same party is stupid. Are you going to vote for Obama because you approve of Carter's presidency? No, you are going to vote for Obama because you think he will do a better job than Romney will. Or at least I hope that is why you are voting for him.

I am voting for Romney because I think he will do a better job as President than Obama will. It has nothing to do with Bush, Clinton, or Abraham Lincoln.
 
2012-08-15 04:54:30 PM

indylaw: Ass_Master_Flash: Blue_Blazer: What do you think should be done about the student loan debt issue?

Educate borrowers as to what they are really signing up for, and let them make the decision to borrow or not as the adults society expects them to be.

The problem with that analysis is this: We have a system of bankruptcy in place because it provides some assurance to people who take risks. Start a business with your savings and it fails? You can declare bankruptcy so that you aren't hounded by your business creditors for the rest of your life. Buy a house and then lose your job? You can declare bankruptcy and move on with your life.

No one knows for sure what is going to happen when we make an investment. It could pan out. It might not. And we've long recognized that there's value in giving people some relief if they fall into insolvency, while providing an orderly way for creditors to get back some of their losses. It's called bankruptcy. And you can discharge most debts in bankruptcy. Owe $50,000 to your business vendor? You can discharge it. Owe $100,000 for a truck? You can discharge it. Owe $200,000 for your personal house, you can discharge it.

But you can't discharge student loans. Not unless you demonstrate that you're disabled and you won't ever be able to get a job where you can pay it back. You're always saddled with them, until you die. Get an advanced degree in computer science and then have the tech industry fall out from under you or offshored to Indians who will work for $50 a day? Too bad, you're stuck paying off massive loans forever. Go finance another degree that might become useless, or work at Starbucks and accept the fact that you are a slave.

You're referring to people that get useless degrees from for-profit colleges and are saddled with debt. Yeah, that happens, and yeah, some of those investments are foolish. But many people are stuck with student debt from law school or med school or legitimate grad programs in sciences for which they ...


We agree on a lot here,

Banks are responsible for making tuition money too accessible because the risk of default was eliminated. Students took the tuition money because it was easy, and got degrees in majors that did not always pan out into good jobs. Schools jacked up tuition rates because the states cut funding and they had eager students with cheap money getting degrees in bullshiat.

The only one not at fault here (IMHO) is the University. Banks need to have risk reintroduced, and individuals need to have the level of risk they have now maintained. Return those variables, the universities should fall in line.
 
2012-08-15 05:08:22 PM

Jjaro: I am voting for Romney because I think he will do a better job as President than Obama will. It has nothing to do with Bush, Clinton, or Abraham Lincoln.


How would you know? He has not said anything relevant yet on what he will do to help the country. Why do you think he would do a better job?

What has Obama done wrong? Should he have forced the House to pass a jobs bill? Should he have forced the Republican Senate to not filibuster everything? You know, the man is not a dictator.

Again, the economy did not get worse under Obama. Things are not great, but much better than they were 4 years ago... if you don't think so, maybe these facts might help...

GDP performance during the Obama Administration has gone into positive growth.
www.tradingeconomics.com

US stock markets performance during the Obama Administration...
DOW in 01/20/2009: 7,949.09
DOW in 08/07/2012: 13,168.22
Rate of Return: 65.66%

S&P 500 in 01/20/2009: 805.22
S&P 500 in 08/07/2012: 1,401.34
Rate of Return: 74.03%

NASDAQ in 01/20/2009: 1,440.86
NASDAQ in 08/07/2012: 3,015.86
Rate of Return: 109.31%


Private jobs hemorrhage slowed down during the Obama Administration and eventually went into positive territory.
farm9.staticflickr.com

Comparing unemployment rate fluctuation between President Bush and President Obama.

Bush
1/20/2001: 4.2%
1/20/2009: 7.7%
Unemployment Rate Change: 83.33% increase

Obama
1/20/2009: 7.7%
Currently: 8.3%
Unemployment Rate Change: 7.80% increase

Unemployment rate has been trending down now during the Obama Administration...
i2.cdn.turner.com

...Even though the Tea Party Nation urged small business owners to not hire people in order to make Obama look bad

Or when a company with company policies about not hiring until Obama is gone based on nothing to do with the basic supply and demand process for his business goods.

Or having Mitch McConnell admit that Republicans took America hostage

Or having the GOP blocked a 10 percent tax break for small businesses that hires new employees

Even so, the job market did improve. Read all about it...

Private-sector job growth biggest in 3 years (new window)

Stealth signs of a stronger job market (new window)

Biggest unemployment rate improvement in nearly 28 years (new window)

Small businesses ramp up jobs (new window)

Jobs: 2 hopeful signs (new window)

The unemployment rate fell to 8.3%. That is the lowest since February 2009 (new window)

Stealth jobs boom: 6 months, 2 million jobs (new window)

Jobless claims plunged last week to a nearly four-year low (new window)

If you are unemployed or underemployed, you don't have a 4 year degree (or higher) and blame Obama for your situation, then maybe you should get a college degree. It is not the Government's fault you don't have the necessary skills to compete in today's world. The Government can even help you pay for it (via student loans, grants, GI Bill etc.).
farm8.staticflickr.com

Average weekly paychecks have improved.
i2.cdn.turner.com

Inflation has not been out of control.
i2.cdn.turner.com

Manufacturing has started to go up.
i2.cdn.turner.com

Consumer spending is up.
i2.cdn.turner.com

Your taxes have not gone up since Obama took office. This was a rooted fear from Tea Partiers. Take a look at a Forbes article written by Bruce Bartlett, a self-described fiscal conservative...
Forbes: Tea partiers confused, taxes 'lower by every measure' under Obama (Cutting to a new window)
 
2012-08-15 05:11:19 PM

Jjaro: I am voting for Romney because I think he will do a better job as President than Obama will. It has nothing to do with Bush, Clinton, or Abraham Lincoln.


That's an awfully nebulous reason to vote for a President.

Jjaro: I never said that. In fact I said the majority of the under 25s are not going to vote for Obama. All I said that the majority of my friends-who are, I will admit, more educated/offer more to companies than most under 25 year olds-are not voting for him.


Oh, I get it. Its because you equate making gobs of money with being a better person.

It seems to me that the skills it takes to make money are completely different from those in executing an effective, efficient coherent government. If the way Romney is running his campaign is any indication, his administration would be an incoherent mess.

/FYI: Your massive ego is getting in the way of me taking you completely seriously.
//Also, a massive ego one of the symptoms of the "Fark you, I got mine" disease.
 
2012-08-15 05:20:17 PM

Jjaro: All I said that the majority of my friends-who are, I will admit, more educated/offer more to companies than most under 25 year olds-are not voting for him.

Recent graduates from tier 2 and tier 3 colleges, and those who didn't go to college however, do seem to be all Obama, if my Facebook feed is any indicator.


It's only Wednesday but this is the best post of the week so far IMO.
 
2012-08-15 05:21:44 PM

Ass_Master_Flash: Why should the federal government get involved in state budgets by dictating incentives or penalties? States should be allowed to invest or not invest in higher education as they see fit, or realistically, as they can afford it. If a state has a sub par higher education system, students will move to states with better systems and those states will reap the rewards of their investments.


Well, I'm not sure it should. The Federal Government already gives state institutions incentives to behave a certain way (in the form of grants, or other federal funds) so I don't see why they shouldn't get involved with ensuring that states can't short shrift their higher education budgets to forgo the necessity of raising taxes for immediate political gain.

Also, since most state institutions heavily bias their tuition rates towards promoting in-state attendees, its not a simple as someone deciding to go somewhere else because of a sub-par education system. A choice of "well I can go somewhere good but be crushed by debt, or go somewhere moderately terrible, and maybe be able to manage it" isn't much of a choice.

Ass_Master_Flash: Could this system be turned around? Would universities only accept loans and tuition for majors that have a higher graduation to job rate if this plan were implemented? Also, what responsibility does the university have for getting you a job after you graduate? This plan takes all the personal responsibility and the risk of the individual getting the degree takes on by going to a university. Higher education is a choice and a risk. it should not be taken lightly


My problem is that right now, Universities take no responsibility. The fact that there are still 'weed out' classes in undergraduate majors rather than that process happening during application indicates to me that many universities still treat their undergraduates as cash cows. I agree that students should have responsibility for their actions, but universities should also have responsibility for making sure that they're offering programs and courses that have some justification as to why they exist - and that their primary focus is educating students, rather than supporting research arms.

Ass_Master_Flash: This sounds reasonable, but I would go all the way and make it fully BK able. That way the banks will think twice about lending wildly if there is a possibility that they could be completely shafted if they make bad loans


I'm glad you like the idea, but I'm not sure what you mean by fully BK-able. I don't think making this kind of loan immediately dischargeable would be smart-because then you'd run into the same issue that was extant before - namely people graduating and immediately declaring bankruptcy.
 
2012-08-15 05:32:52 PM

imashark: I'm glad you like the idea, but I'm not sure what you mean by fully BK-able. I don't think making this kind of loan immediately dischargeable would be smart-because then you'd run into the same issue that was extant before - namely people graduating and immediately declaring bankruptcy.


Make it fully bankrupt eligible, leave it up to a judge to decide if the person declaring is being shady, or is in obvious need.

imashark: Also, since most state institutions heavily bias their tuition rates towards promoting in-state attendees


IIRC, residency can be established in 2 years. Students can attend JC and work while gaining residency. That or, despite my opposition to the government meddling, make premiums for out of state students illegal? would the Commerce Clause apply here?
 
2012-08-15 05:45:54 PM

hugram: Jjaro: I am voting for Romney because I think he will do a better job as President than Obama will. It has nothing to do with Bush, Clinton, or Abraham Lincoln.

How would you know? He has not said anything relevant yet on what he will do to help the country. Why do you think he would do a better job?

What has Obama done wrong? Should he have forced the House to pass a jobs bill? Should he have forced the Republican Senate to not filibuster everything? You know, the man is not a dictator.

Again, the economy did not get worse under Obama. Things are not great, but much better than they were 4 years ago... if you don't think so, maybe these facts might help...

GDP performance during the Obama Administration has gone into positive growth.
[www.tradingeconomics.com image 700x300]

US stock markets performance during the Obama Administration...
DOW in 01/20/2009: 7,949.09
DOW in 08/07/2012: 13,168.22
Rate of Return: 65.66%

S&P 500 in 01/20/2009: 805.22
S&P 500 in 08/07/2012: 1,401.34
Rate of Return: 74.03%

NASDAQ in 01/20/2009: 1,440.86
NASDAQ in 08/07/2012: 3,015.86
Rate of Return: 109.31%

Private jobs hemorrhage slowed down during the Obama Administration and eventually went into positive territory.
[farm9.staticflickr.com image 800x462]

Comparing unemployment rate fluctuation between President Bush and President Obama.

Bush
1/20/2001: 4.2%
1/20/2009: 7.7%
Unemployment Rate Change: 83.33% increase

Obama
1/20/2009: 7.7%
Currently: 8.3%
Unemployment Rate Change: 7.80% increase

Unemployment rate has been trending down now during the Obama Administration...
[i2.cdn.turner.com image 620x355]

...Even though the Tea Party Nation urged small business owners to not hire people in order to make Obama look bad

Or when a company with company policies about not hiring until Obama is gone based on nothing to do with the basic supply and demand process for his business goods.

Or having Mitch McConnell admit that Republicans took America hostage

Or having the GO ...


Yes, the economy is better than it was at the nadir of the recession. That doesn't mean it has anything to do with Obama's policies at all. That's how economies work. If anything, Obama's policies prolonged the recession.

I am most opposed to Obama's rhetoric against the successful people. That they "didn't build that" and that they are not paying their fair share.

I am supporting Romney, because of the shift in attitude that will come if he takes office among investors and consumers.

Yes there may be stupid businesses owners who wont hire because of politics, but those are exceptions, and you shouldn't base a point around them. That's as irrelevant as referencing the d-list celebrities threatening to move to Canada if a Republican is elected.

I
 
2012-08-15 05:48:41 PM

Blue_Blazer: EnviroDude: With the prospect of no chance for a job after graduation and being saddled with decades of student loans is this a shock to anyone?

Obamasmagictimemachine.jpg

Some of us younger people voted for President Obama and continue to believe he is the best available choice.

What do you think should be done about the student loan debt issue?


Pay your loan back.
 
2012-08-15 05:51:25 PM

Cinaed: Lessee... the party that is obstructing and hindering the recovery in every way possible doesn't want to be blamed for hindering the recovery?

Weird man, just weird.


Yeah, it sucks how the Democrat controlled Senate won't even put the budgets sent to them by the House up to a vote, and we have to keep doing continuing resolutions because the Dems in the Senate won't take up the budgets the House sends them that Obammy says he'll veto anyway. It's all the Republicans' fault.
 
2012-08-15 05:59:06 PM
What, Mitt got 41% of the youth poll and Balrog Heineken Sombrero Obamalamamama only got 49%?! HE'S DOOMED!
 
2012-08-15 07:31:26 PM
Cinaed: Lessee... the party that is obstructing and hindering the recovery in every way possible doesn't want to be blamed for hindering the recovery?

Weird man, just weird.

Yeah, it sucks how the Democrat controlled Senate won't even put the budgets sent to them by the House up to a vote, and we have to keep doing continuing resolutions because the Dems in the Senate won't take up the budgets the House sends them that Obammy says he'll veto anyway. It's all the Republicans' fault.


Well, if the dems control the senate and the white house then...maybe...the republican controlled house should consider that before creating bat-shiat crazy bills that have no chance of succeeding.
 
2012-08-15 07:55:28 PM

Graffito: Cinaed: Lessee... the party that is obstructing and hindering the recovery in every way possible doesn't want to be blamed for hindering the recovery?

Weird man, just weird.

Yeah, it sucks how the Democrat controlled Senate won't even put the budgets sent to them by the House up to a vote, and we have to keep doing continuing resolutions because the Dems in the Senate won't take up the budgets the House sends them that Obammy says he'll veto anyway. It's all the Republicans' fault.

Well, if the dems control the senate and the white house then...maybe...the republican controlled house should consider that before creating bat-shiat crazy bills that have no chance of succeeding.


The reason they create those bat-shiat crazy bills is BECAUSE they have no chance in succeeding.

Which in turn further sustains the "Democrats won't compromise with us" talking point that the Fark GOP shills are using right now.
 
2012-08-15 09:07:48 PM
What really has the young folks attention is stuff like this:

Social Security benefits: New retirees officially set to pay more than they receive

Many young people do not see Social Security, and increasingly MEDICARE, as a benefit they wil receive but a debt that they will saddled with. They are also smart enough to realize that fixing or reforming these programs is going to take more than taxing the rich more or sticking our heads in the sand proclaiming them sound.
 
2012-08-15 10:42:44 PM

hasty ambush: Many young people do not see Social Security, and increasingly MEDICARE, as a benefit they wil receive but a debt that they will saddled with.


Exactly, I don't expect SS to be there because I expect the tools in the GOP to fark with it more than they already have.

I also see that under Ryan's plan I'm going to subsidize my parents good-version of Medicare while I get stuck with the shiatty version of Medicare ON TOP of paying more out of pocket for medical expense.

i also see that privatizing Medicare just to give more tax cuts is counter-productive and will just leave us in the same hole that we're already in. If we really want to get serious, we need to consider things like raising the Medicare eligibility age. Because I feel things like that would be better in the long run instead of Libertarian BS like throwing people like me to the wolves (ie: Private insurance) when I get older just so they can feel good about themselves because you're leaving older people to fend for themselves in the Free Market.

You're damn right I'm paying attention to this! That's why I'm NOT voting Republican and voting for Obama and the Democrats instead.
 
2012-08-15 11:58:04 PM
This is how the republicans fail. When you ask them the simple question "Okay, you've told me why the democrat is the spawn of Satan, now tell me why I should vote for you. What do republicans offer young people/women/gays/the elderly/hispanics/blacks/the poor/anyone that's not a wealthy white male?" they cannot answer you.

Not even if their lives depended on it.
Because they don't have an answer.
Because their policies, ideas and candidates suck.

"Why should I vote for you and not just against them?" 
When the (R)'s can make a better case than the (D)'s, young people will vote for them. Until then the party of restricting access to and eliminating birth control, abortion and other women's health care, of demonizing minorities and poor people, of planning to strip away the healthcare and retirement of the elderly, and of discrimination based on sexual orientation because they believe a book written by superstitious goat herders says so will continue to repel these people like week old sh*t.
 
2012-08-16 12:19:55 AM
Would that be spare change?
 
2012-08-16 12:33:24 AM

shotglasss:
Some of us younger people voted for President Obama and continue to believe he is the best available choice.

What do you think should be done about the student loan debt issue?

Pay your loan back.


Paying the loan back requires money.
The way to get money is to have a job.
This job must pay enough so that the borrower need not choose
between loan payment and food or shelter.

So where are the jobs?
 
2012-08-16 01:11:09 AM

Hueg_Redd: I'm 21. I will vote a straight Democratic ticket even though I'm in Arkansas which doesn't have a chance in hell of going blue. Could we fix the electoral college situation so my vote actually matters? It's hard to get motivated to go vote when these teabagging farks are everywhere I look.

These bastards got to live a glorious life and they get mad at us for trying to have any semblance of fun. Imagine someone born in 1946 as a baby boomer. You are 14 years old when 1960 starts. You get the summer of love and all that fun stuff. Then the joys of the 70s which as I understand it were like 60's part 2 but a little cornier, fun all the same. Next comes the 80's where these guys all sell out their souls and our countries just to add another quarter gram of cocaine to their pockets. Now the 90's happen and they all ride this sweet tech bubble. In 2000 things slowly start to wane until in 2008 they crash. I think they should have to bear with the consequences of their self indulgent lifestyles but we're the ones catching the problems via this terrible economy, unfair tax system, etc. Enjoy that 15% capital gains rate you old farks.

Maybe I'm all wrong and that was a mindless rant but that's the way it feels.



Only a very lucky and perspicacious few raced to the top and achieved what you surmised.
 
2012-08-16 04:57:36 AM

Mrtraveler01: hasty ambush: Many young people do not see Social Security, and increasingly MEDICARE, as a benefit they wil receive but a debt that they will saddled with.

Exactly, I don't expect SS to be there because I expect the tools in the GOP to fark with it more than they already have.

I also see that under Ryan's plan I'm going to subsidize my parents good-version of Medicare while I get stuck with the shiatty version of Medicare ON TOP of paying more out of pocket for medical expense.

i also see that privatizing Medicare just to give more tax cuts is counter-productive and will just leave us in the same hole that we're already in. If we really want to get serious, we need to consider things like raising the Medicare eligibility age. Because I feel things like that would be better in the long run instead of Libertarian BS like throwing people like me to the wolves (ie: Private insurance) when I get older just so they can feel good about themselves because you're leaving older people to fend for themselves in the Free Market.

You're damn right I'm paying attention to this! That's why I'm NOT voting Republican and voting for Obama and the Democrats instead.


So you are in favor of doing nothing except my higher taxes in exchange for a higher eligibility age into a system that proomises you a negative rate of return.

Others at least accept that the programs were never diesigned to meet the population demographic changes in terms of numbers and longivity and need a fundemental change an arenwilling to accept that 1. My benefits form these programs are nto goont be what they were for current reipients and 2. I am gong to have to accept mor responsiblity for preparing for my own retirement.


Realize that in reality Social Security and MEDICARE are welfare programs like food stamps and TANF. You have to pay into them but unless you meet certain criteria you won't get much ou tof them in return.
 
2012-08-16 05:52:34 AM

meat0918: Oh, wait, Obama still cleans up the youth vote.

Nevermind...


Well, probably the ones that are too busy to pay attention or show up to vote.

R engagement is ahead of D engagement by 20 percent. if this election is about getting out the vote, who is more motivated this time to do that? The base that feels Obama is a threat to the country's future and must be removed, or the base that likes Obama, but still feels he hasnt delivered Hope OR change? Who is more likely to vote.?

They better put together one heck of a convention or this could get ugly.

/ not voting for either, so dont flame on me, im just saying what I see.
 
2012-08-16 11:13:30 AM

Jjaro: Yes, the economy is better than it was at the nadir of the recession. That doesn't mean it has anything to do with Obama's policies at all. That's how economies work. If anything, Obama's policies prolonged the recession.

I am most opposed to Obama's rhetoric against the successful people. That they "didn't build that" and that they are not paying their fair share.



Do you only watch Fox News? Because the point the President was making in that speech is that while, yes, successful people built companies, they are taking advantage of a vast amount of infrastructure that was built with public money - and thus should be responsible citizens when it comes to ensuring that infrastructure remains available for others.

The more apt quote (and sort of a gaffe why Obama didn't say it) is "You didn't build that alone."

And let's face it - the rich have not paid their fair share. The idea that they shouldn't be made to pay more is a continuation of the morally bankrupt trickle-down economics that has been perpetuated since the '80s. Being rich or successful does not abrogate your civic duty. If anything, it puts you in a position to be more responsible for civic welfare.

As an example, we need more public investment specifically on infrastructure projects. We've neglected, for 40-60 years, paying more in taxes to ensure our infrastructure projects are in good shape because of this belief that taxing people who have exponentially more money is anathema to democracy. Hell, we receive a "D" from the American Society of Civil Engineers on the state of our collective infrastructure. Don't you think that infrastructure is vital, not only to civic welfare, but also to the collective defense of this country should anyone think to attack it?

What grates on my nerves with Mitt Romney is that he pontificates that he does what is legally required - and that everyone should think that attribute is exactly what makes him the best candidate for president. As if what is currently legally required is more than enough to handle the problems in this country. And despite this we get the noise machine from the right constantly spewing hate and bile, trying to maneuver into a position to co-opt the authority that we the people give government in order to pursue their pet projects-from Israel, to Iran, to gay marriage, to abortion, to having an unfettered market where the only thing that matters is greed.

I hear a noise machine from the left, but that at the very least seems to agitate for equality, justice, opportunity-all that stuff that consists of what I thought was "the American Way."

I'm not saying that there isn't corruption and waste in the government. And I'm not opposed to getting out the hammer to bang out the deformities where they occur. But I am opposed to the wholesale baby-and-bathwater philosophy of Grover Norquist and his cronies, which Mitt Romney happily parrots and promotes, giving credence and amplifying the aforementioned noise machine.


...also, if anything, Obama's policies restricting government employment is what is prolonging the recession - most of the unemployment increases these days are from the reduction of government payrolls as opposed to the private sector.
 
2012-08-16 04:08:36 PM

imashark: Jjaro: Yes, the economy is better than it was at the nadir of the recession. That doesn't mean it has anything to do with Obama's policies at all. That's how economies work. If anything, Obama's policies prolonged the recession.

I am most opposed to Obama's rhetoric against the successful people. That they "didn't build that" and that they are not paying their fair share.


Do you only watch Fox News? Because the point the President was making in that speech is that while, yes, successful people built companies, they are taking advantage of a vast amount of infrastructure that was built with public money - and thus should be responsible citizens when it comes to ensuring that infrastructure remains available for others.

The more apt quote (and sort of a gaffe why Obama didn't say it) is "You didn't build that alone."

And let's face it - the rich have not paid their fair share. The idea that they shouldn't be made to pay more is a continuation of the morally bankrupt trickle-down economics that has been perpetuated since the '80s. Being rich or successful does not abrogate your civic duty. If anything, it puts you in a position to be more responsible for civic welfare.

As an example, we need more public investment specifically on infrastructure projects. We've neglected, for 40-60 years, paying more in taxes to ensure our infrastructure projects are in good shape because of this belief that taxing people who have exponentially more money is anathema to democracy. Hell, we receive a "D" from the American Society of Civil Engineers on the state of our collective infrastructure. Don't you think that infrastructure is vital, not only to civic welfare, but also to the collective defense of this country should anyone think to attack it?

What grates on my nerves with Mitt Romney is that he pontificates that he does what is legally required - and that everyone should think that attribute is exactly what makes him the best candidate for president. As if what is currently ...


That may have been what you wanted Obama to mean, but it wasn't. He offered three reasons for success, intelligence, hard work, and government assistance, then said it wasn't the first two.

And its not like the rich pay lower or equal taxes than the poor. Half of Americans pay no income tax, and its a clear progressive tax from there on out. As it should be.

Trust me, I believe in a progressive tax rate, and that we do need to focus on infrastructure, but Obama meant what he said, even if you don't want to believe it. He is a government worker, and always has been, and thats how he believes the country best functions.

And no, any reduction of government payrolls did not prolong the recession. Many government jobs have 3 employed people for 1 person's work. Cutting payrolls will not hamper productivity. I know government employees who do absolutely nothing for days on end-actually doing work maybe two days a week. We can afford to cut government payrolls.
 
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