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(New York Daily News)   Paul Ryan renounces Ayn Rand, like most readers did when they were 19   (nydailynews.com) divider line 99
    More: Obvious, Ayn Rand, Thomas Aquinas, WNYC, Mitt Romney  
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4407 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Aug 2012 at 6:25 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-08-14 06:02:20 PM
14 votes:
Atlas Shrugged is about this superhuman business guy named John Galt who was super awesome at everything he did and one day he just checked out of society because he was tired of all of the mindless bureaucratic red-tape regulations and union bullshiat that surrounds running a business in a modern society like ours. And people freaked out because without John Galt around, everything was going to shiat. And then other really important business tycoons did the same thing. And then all of the union workers and politicians were really sad and miserable and jobless, because the super awesome job creators weren't around to lead them to prosperity and super awesome living. So the moral of the story is, keep sucking rich guy dick or they'll fark you in the ass.
2012-08-14 04:51:17 PM
12 votes:
I'd rather read a thousand farking elf songs by J.R.R. Tolkien than one chapter of Ayn Rand's crap.
2012-08-14 06:54:33 PM
9 votes:

Lando Lincoln: Atlas Shrugged is about this superhuman business guy named John Galt who was super awesome at everything he did and one day he just checked out of society because he was tired of all of the mindless bureaucratic red-tape regulations and union bullshiat that surrounds running a business in a modern society like ours. And people freaked out because without John Galt around, everything was going to shiat. And then other really important business tycoons did the same thing. And then all of the union workers and politicians were really sad and miserable and jobless, because the super awesome job creators weren't around to lead them to prosperity and super awesome living. So the moral of the story is, keep sucking rich guy dick or they'll fark you in the ass.



Is this legitimately what the book is about? I've never read it, or even a summary of it. We need to figure out a way tomake all the bankers and CEO's leave. They've been farking a lot of shiat up.

Employee 1: "Dude the CEO just up and left"
Employee 2: "Well the company was doing badly so he was about to lay some of us off. I guess we can use his multi-million dollar benefits, stocks and paychecks to maintain, build and expand the company."
Employee 1: "But who is going to lead us?"
Employee 2: "We're Americans, we'll figure it out on our own and in a democratic fashion. We're educated, we're not afraid of losing our jobs and we now know that any additional profit from the business will go directly into our checking accounts. I think we'll be okay."
Employee 1: "We should have done this years ago!"
2012-08-14 06:36:36 PM
8 votes:
So he keeps the things he likes about the philosophy, while ignoring all the other parts that he doesn't like, even if they are necessary to make it a coherent whole?

How very christian of him!
2012-08-14 06:32:11 PM
7 votes:
She was his entire reason for getting into politics, and for years he would give her books away to everyone he knew. Somehow, after years and years of worshipping her, he found out she was a crazy Russian atheist. It's good to know that this "serious" Republican does such great due diligence before swallowing an ideology hook line and sinker. He is truly the face of the modern GOP.
2012-08-14 05:06:21 PM
7 votes:
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

-- Paul Krugman
2012-08-14 04:59:58 PM
7 votes:
I read The Fountainhead in my early 20s on a good friend's recommendation, with no real preconceptions of her work or philosophy. It's one of those books that you actually get angry at the author for 1) rambling for pages and pages about utter unrealistic nonsense and pretending it's wisdom; and 2) being a terrible writer on every level while doing that.

If you're going to feed me crap, make it entertaining crap. Rand couldn't even do that. I felt like taking a shower to get that book off me when I was done. Horrible characters, horrible philosophy, just a total disaster of a book. I have heard Atlas Shrugged is better but I'd probably prefer just taking an icepick to my eyeballs rather than try.
2012-08-14 06:03:33 PM
6 votes:
what if all the John Galt wannabes up and left...and society got better for it?
2012-08-14 05:47:56 PM
6 votes:

Ghastly: In that regard she is very like Tolkien (nobody reads the farking elf songs).


YOU LIE. Tolkien is scintillating reading. He was a storyteller's storyteller.

Frodo set down the ring and sank to the earth in repose. From his backpack, Sam produced a flask of water and some Elven Lembas, and from his waistpouch a small, sealed tin. The tin had been crafted by the tinsmith L'Ortheala'i of the second line of Durenorathala during the Second Age, on the High Night of Pancrea when the Solenil were running in the crystal water from high Holitla and the Darklmunnerors lay yet beneath the graven stones of their forebears who had not yet descended from the lofty heights of Arameir to craft their stony halls. Inside the tin lay a single pat of Glumeliian Butter, which had not been seen in the Shire since the first days of the last days of Sam's mother's father, known to some as his grandfather, who had traveled the Windy Trail beneath the Solemn Mist of the Mount of Holitakea to beseech the Caravan Master of Noriktha, himself of the second line of Durenorathala, to attend the upcoming Festival Harvest of Firhtyta and sell some butter there. Which Sam's mother's father/Grandfather did buy and save in the shallows of the cool Hoytr's water, and which Sam had dutifully carried with him from the moment of their departure.

With the butter knife that had had been crafted by his second cousin Hal, who had been borne during the Third Coming of the Second Rising of the Fourth Turning of the Seventh House and had traveled to Genedain to learn the craft of butter knife forging from the Elven smith Lorelairlahdsthgfksdghjk, son of Ka, Sam spread a pat of Glumeliian Butter on the Lembas and handed the small morsel to Frodo.

"Mmm," Frodo said. "This is some very tasty butter."
2012-08-14 06:40:11 PM
5 votes:
Romney wants to convince everyone he's not the liberal he used to be, and now we have running mate who wants to convince everyone he's not the conservative he used to be.
2012-08-14 06:32:58 PM
5 votes:
This is why Romney loves Ryan. Like Mitt, Paul can immediately abandon long held beliefs as soon as it becomes convenient. You don't find someone as breath takingly shallow as that every day. Mitt is extremely impressed.
2012-08-14 11:11:44 PM
4 votes:
You know, it wouldn't be too hard to turn Atlas Shrugged into a communist novel.

You just make all the characters good honest laborers instead of titans of industry. The people keeping them down are the managers who steal their labor and ideas. Have overdone scenes where a worker thinks of a way to help the company save money and increase workplace safety. He tells his manager who tells the guy to work in his spare time on a proposal and if he does he'll give him a bonus. The guy slaves away in all his spare time to produce details plans, research, projections and everything. When the work is finished the manger takes credit, screws him on the bonus, and then fires the worker to cover his tracks when he complains. The manager also alters the plan in such a way that it squeezes out a few extra dimes by eliminating the safety part and lots of workers get maimed in a horrible accident. shiat like this keep happening to the righteous main characters. Then some mysterious figure starts going to all the good honest workers and telling them about this communist paradise where they get the full rewards of their hard work. While all this is going on there's this one guy who is going around the country knocking over banks to fund the communist utopia. He justifies himself by regarding himself as a Robin Hood (an actual one, not a reverse one). In the end there can be a big Marxist speech about how the people who work and sweat to make the world work are so great and everyone else just sucks, and then of course all the middle managers and all the robber barons burn because society fails without the good honest workers, who live on in their communist utopia without the burden of the capitalists.

Ta-Da! And in this version, the people in the new utopia actually know how to farm so they don't all die after a few hard winters.
2012-08-14 07:38:14 PM
4 votes:
2012-08-14 06:51:00 PM
4 votes:
"The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand," - Paul Ryan (2005)

"I grew up reading Ayn Rand and it taught me quite a bit about who I am and what my value systems are," he told the group, adding, "It's inspired me so much that it's required reading in my office for all my interns and my staff." - Paul Ryan (2005)

"I give out 'Atlas Shrugged' as Christmas presents." - Paul Ryan (2007)

"What's unique about what's happening today in government, in the world, in America, is that it's as if we're living in an Ayn Rand novel right now," Ryan said in a series of videos posted to Facebook in 2009. "I think Ayn Rand did the best job of anybody to build a moral case of capitalism, and that morality of capitalism is under assault." - Paul Ryan (2009)

"I, like millions of young people in America, read Rand's novels when I was young. I enjoyed them," he said. "...[but] I reject her philosophy." - Paul Ryan (2012)

so.....he was young in 2009, but now he's much more mature?

Dear Congressman Ryan,

THE INTERNET DOES NOT FORGET. Also, fark you, you farking liar.
2012-08-14 06:32:17 PM
4 votes:
Because a man who would cast aside a lifetime of belief for a moment of power is the kind of man I would the trust the future to.

/No, I don't like Rand.
//But he's been her disciple for his entire adult life.
///What will he cast aside next?
2012-08-14 07:24:53 PM
3 votes:

Silly Jesus: Is this the thread where people who have never read a book, much less understand the basic ideas contained therein, bash it because that's what all the cool libtard trolls do?

*reads first 50 posts*

Yep, meets the Fark formula.

Carry on.


Is this the thread where some Randian shows up and issues a blank dismissal of criticism by simply assuming none of the critics have ever read Rand (because if they did, they would know what a great intellectual and writer she was)?

Yep, carry on
2012-08-14 06:47:52 PM
3 votes:
I read Atlas Shrugged in it's entirety.

Award please.

Seriously, you could edit it down to a dozen pages of socio-political commentary and leave out the endless monotony of head bashing illustrative examples and didactic soliloquies. It's a paiful read. If ever there was a call for only reading the Cliff Notes, this is that book.

And while I think there is *some* limited merit in some parts of objectivism as a socio-economic principle, it is a truly, truly. horrific way to guide your personal life. And watching the 'heroine' hop into the arms of whoever is the most advantageous man at the time makes Twilight's Bella seem like an empowered femenist role model.
2012-08-14 05:37:42 PM
3 votes:
I had to read the Fountainhead in high school, and the entire class pretty much agreed the author had to be clinically insane.
2012-08-15 06:34:39 AM
2 votes:

ModernLuddite: [media.tumblr.com image 420x636]

This is a pretty good book.

Anyone whose first exposure to Rand is through this book is always really, really, really, really, really disappointed with the rest of her oeuvre.


I read that in elementary school (4th Grade). Even then I was bored a third of the way into the book. Granted I was also a big fan of sci-fi by then and understood the concept of individuality and the idea of collective consciousness among individuals, I got bored and kept reading the Uplift series instead.

Then I had to read The Fountainhead. Wasn't impressed. In fact, I got the distinct impression that Rand liked to live out her more....perverted sexual desires in her writing.

College came along and I had to read Atlas Shrugged on a dare with my philosophy professor. 20 hours of my life that I will not get back. I actually ended up snapping a little bit and going on a 30 minute tirade chewing out the Randroid that just WOULD NOT shut up, this was during the 2008 primary season (I was 21 and had spent the previous 3 years working my ass off as a machinist).

I have Ayn Rand to thank for laying down the groundwork that would eventually lead to me leaving the entire notion of conservatism and most of the tenets of libertarianism behind because I realized that all the dumb cock gargling farks that keep rambling on about free market this and invisible hand that are so stupid that they are confusing people that only have anything in common with James Taggart for John Galt. I came pretty close to unloading another tirade on a dumb shiat at work yesterday who actually said that Romney was more like Galt than any of the other candidates including Johnson(Rand is pretty popular among machinists for some stupid reason).

Rand's philosophy is backwards, bankrupt and utterly anti-social. But for none other than the fact that her magnum opus of stink lead to me being able to realize the blatant stupidity of the modern conservative movement every time they make an allusion to a Galt figure when it is so glaringly obvious as to be painful that the person they're referring to is none other than the caricature of lazy and entitled that Rand turned James Taggart into, I forgive her the 28 hours of my life her estate owes me.
2012-08-14 11:52:19 PM
2 votes:
http://www.spudworks.com/article/66/2/

The Abridged Atlas Shrugged
02.19.2001

"It sure is hard to find good men now-a-days. I wonder what the hell is going on," Dagny smirked to herself as she entered the towering monolith to capitalism that was the headquarters of Taggart Transcontinental. "There are so few men like Hank Rearden, the man who single handedly invented a new greenish tint metal that is far stronger than steel," she said bursting in on her brother. "There are too many like you, Jim," she mocked.

"Well, if that's the case, you so-not-a-woman-and-I-can't-believe-a-woman-wrote-this, why don't you go redeem yourself by sleeping with him. By being his servile little mistress you'll serve the cause of capitalism far better than you have," Jim mocked.

Dagny smirked in her mocking way. Yes, she thought, she had tried that with another man, and it seemed so right until he, gasp, went to the other side. He became a slacker. Hank. Hank, Hank, Hank. Don't you know you're all I dream about though I don't actually do anything about it until page five-hundred? "I know what I want Jim, but what do you want?"

"Who is John Galt?"

"Don't say that! It's people asking that question that leads me to believe something sinister is happening in society. I think he's the destroyer." She mocked herself silently inside. How could a grown woman think such a thing? Oh, who was she kidding? She knew that women weren't much better than children anyway. Everyone knew that. It was a fluke she had any position in the railroad at all.

"It is I, Francisco d'Anconia, of the oldest most wealthy copper fortune this side of the Atlantic, and don't I want you to know that I'm pissing it all away for a grand reason that I won't tell you!" His perfect physique burst through the door in a mocking manner few could achieve but which he achieved perfectly. He had seen someone do the act before and fail and, after a single try at six months old, he was better at mockingly bursting through doors than anyone on the planet.

"Slacker," Dagny screamed with indignation and a pointed finger.

"Yes Dagny, you silly silly woman, I may seem a slacker to you, but after ten pages of explanation you will know that it is you who slack and it is I who serve a higher cause which will not be explained for another seven hundred pages. Remember, I am a d'Anconia which goes without saying that I know what I am doing," he mocked. He was so perfect at mocking. No man mocked like Francisco. How she wanted to be back in his arms. Were it not for... no! He was a slacker! The very embodiment of slack yet... yet he slacked with purpose. Even that was perfect. No man slacked like Francisco.

"What in capitalism's name is going on here," Hank yelled with bursting anger from the bottom of his manly lungs as he lunged through the door. It wasn't as perfect as Francisco's mockery, no man could touch that, but it was with the kind of power only a capitalist could muster. Dagny fluttered with lust.

"What the hell are you all doing in my office," Jim demanded weekly, the only way a socialist could demand.

"Hank, we must talk," Francisco said in a softly mocking way. Hank's heart fluttered with love he suddenly felt for the man. Even if he was a slacker, could my heart be wrong, Hank asked himself. He reached for Francisco's hand, wanting to hold him close.

"No," Dagny screamed with indignation and a pointed finger. "Please, I want him to take me and show me what a weak little girl I really am! That's what all women want!" Hank looked torn.

"Hey everybody," said a quiet voice from behind Hank. Hank took up most of the doorway with his manly capitalistic bulk. The crowd parted like the sea and a well groomed handsome man with a shock of boyish blond hair stood at the foot of it.

"John, you're not supposed to show up for eight-hundred more pages," Francisco said mockingly.

"Well, I got bored with the wait and figured what the hell. So... who wants to know what this is all about?" John smiled and every man's heart in the room melted. Dagny felt the overwhelming urge to become his servant and to clean up after him. That's what all women wanted after all, she figured.

"I do," Rearden capitalisticly demanded.

"Well, I couldn't deal with any government intervention in business and think that any kind of socialist tendency is kind of a bad idea, so me and my buddies, who all just happen to be the rich, powerful, and industrial, went on strike to bring the world to its knees." John said as he tossed back his blond hair with a light twitch of his head.

"For what purpose," Jim nearly cried. Socialists are such babies, thought John mockingly.

"Well, I don't like having to pay taxes or think about anything other than business. And, because I'm such an inexplicably charismatic guy, I figured I'd just get my industrialist buddies to back me," John said with a hint of mockery.

"Look," Jim sobbed. "The world is crumbling without you guys!"

"Well, once it's toast, we'll get to work but until then, who's up for some skiing in Colorado?"
2012-08-14 10:49:52 PM
2 votes:
Oooh!! Ooooh! This is too good!

So, Paul Ryan says:"If somebody is going to try to paste a person's view on epistemology to me, then give me Thomas Aquinas," who believed that man needs divine help in the pursuit of knowledge. "Don't give me Ayn Rand,"

Then, if you do a google search for "Thomas Aquinis the poor," and do a little cross referencing, you can find this in under 3 minutes:

On the contrary, In cases of need all things are common property, so that there would seem to be no sin in taking another's property, for need has made it common.

I answer that, Things which are of human right cannot derogate from natural right or Divine right. Now according to the natural order established by Divine Providence, inferior things are ordained for the purpose of succoring man's needs by their means. Wherefore the division and appropriation of things which are based on human law, do not preclude the fact that man's needs have to be remedied by means of these very things. Hence whatever certain people have in superabundance is due, by natural law, to the purpose of succoring the poor. For this reason Ambrose says, and his words are embodied in the Decretals (Dist. xlvii, can. Sicut ii): "It is the hungry man's bread that you withhold, the naked man's cloak that you store away, the money that you bury in the earth is the price of the poor man's ransom and freedom."
-Summa Theologica, Question 66

Let that sink in for a moment.
2012-08-14 09:53:26 PM
2 votes:

Silly Jesus: Gimmick: The plot of Atlas Shrugged in 12 seconds.

HA! That's exactly like the moochers.


The moochers and looters are the people in Galt's Gulch. The start up capital for their society was gained by piracy of foreign aid. Sure, Ragnar and the others use the self serving justification that they are just stealing back the tax money that was stolen from them, but they are stealing aid that was paid for by the taxes of everyone in the country not only the people who move to the gulch. Ragnar even admits literally in the text of the book that he's stealing. He says he's a reverse robin hood who is stealing from the poor to give to teh rich. He adds the adjective "thieving" to "poor" to rationalize but all thieves rationalize their crimes. Their whole society is founded on stolen goods.

Galt and his followers have decided that they are the "productive" people and that by nature of being who they are deserve everything and fark everyone else. They decide they are special and so it is not only not wrong but it is completely righteous when they steal from everyone that isn't part of their self declared elite.
2012-08-14 07:47:12 PM
2 votes:
I can almost always tell a modern objectivist writer by the way they write children. For some reason, children in objectivist books don't just talk like full-grown adults, but they talk like fully-actualized well-rounded intelligent adults who are capable of unpacking and analyzing all their inner demons and assessing a potential strategy for dealing with them.

The trouble with talking to objectivists is that they go from normal to crazy faster than any other dogmatics. They're so convinced that they think and communicate with utter cubic logic in all things that they believe that the mere fact that the logic exists must mean that it's correct. In other words, they believe they're correct because they believe they're correct - the fact that they came up with a conclusion means that the conclusion must be accurate.

At the same time, I've met plenty of objectivists, mostly online, whose brains are less organized than a sack of rabid raccoons; their logic comes from other planets and their conclusions fit however they happen to feel at the time. They're also past masters at doing the math backwards; they have a conclusion so they invent a logic that fits it. Then they get axe-throwing defensive when you call them on it.

One objectivist, that I did get to meet personally, flew into a rage when I told him that it wasn't actually possible to talk to bears and have them understand you. I have no idea what was driving his brain. Another lives in a hoarder house, collects guns, and receives government assistance. He's pretty special. And these people go into these rage spirals whenever you say that there might be flaws in their thinking or blind spots in their behavior.

Deep down, I think objectivists know that they can't really run their own lives, but don't you dare bust that illusion. Everything they are depends upon convincing themselves that they're better than everyone else.
2012-08-14 07:05:05 PM
2 votes:

Gyrony: So from one of the worst minds of the 20th century to one of the worst minds of the 13th century?


Really? Planting your flag on the mental inferiority of Thomas Aquinas?

Interesting play.
2012-08-14 06:59:36 PM
2 votes:

Craptastic: "The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand," - Paul Ryan (2005)


Know what I love about that? Getting into public service means your paycheck depends on taxpayers, which kinda doesn't jive with what Rand advocated.

Fark You I'm Drunk: I'm pretty sure Neil Peart and obsessive Rush fanboys are the only reason there are people past the age of 19 who like Ayn Rand.


Actually Peart got past Rand ages ago.
2012-08-14 06:39:36 PM
2 votes:
"I reject her philosophy," Ryan says firmly. "It's an atheist philosophy. It reduces human interactions down to mere contracts and it is antithetical to my worldview. If somebody is going to try to paste a person's view on epistemology to me, then give me Thomas Aquinas," who believed that man needs divine help in the pursuit of knowledge. "Don't give me Ayn Rand," he says.

Bullshiat. While people's views do evolve over time, he is quite clearly just telling people what they want to hear. Aquinas' ramblings are just as incoherent as Rand, there is no way he picked that up and then somehow concluded that Ayn Rand is wrong. Nor does he even explain how his view changed or even admit that he was once in love with Randian philosophy. Come on, even Romney has more backbone than that, he isn't suddenly claiming he's not Mormon just to score votes.
2012-08-14 06:39:30 PM
2 votes:

randomjsa: Yes, people grow up and embrace reality. Except the people who read socialist and communist literature, they never do.

Then we elect them president and wonder why people who never grew up make such lousy presidents.

Hopefully we can put an adult back in the WH in November.


Speaking of crowing cocks, I bet Paul Ryan denies Ayn Rand at least two more times.
2012-08-14 06:35:58 PM
2 votes:
Ayn Rand Paul Ryan Gosling will be the name of my first child.

He will be a chain-smoking atheist Catholic optometrist with incredible abs and a shriveled up heartless dick who believes the gold standard and objectivism will be the saviors of humanity.

//so proud already
2012-08-14 06:35:23 PM
2 votes:

randomjsa:
Then we elect them president and wonder why people who never grew up make such lousy presidents.


well yeah but don't be TOO hard on GWB. The market was imploding and banks failing over like dominoes. if he didn't turn the country socialist he'd have been the president responsible for kicking off the Great Depression 2.0. I guess he was ok with being known as the Republican president who made the country socialist instead of the guy who destroyed the country's economy.
2012-08-14 06:32:11 PM
2 votes:
I admit I skipped most of the radio address. Just like I would have in real life. 50 farking pages of rambling speech is no way to win hearts and minds Mr. Galt.
2012-08-14 06:31:59 PM
2 votes:

randomjsa: Yes, people grow up and embrace reality. Except the people who read socialist and communist literature, they never do.

Then we elect them president and wonder why people who never grew up make such lousy presidents.

Hopefully we can put an adult back in the WH in November.


You sound tired, random.
2012-08-14 05:44:02 PM
2 votes:

Pocket Ninja: I'm willing to bet quite a bit of money that if you selected, at random, any 10 individuals who have ever posted in a thread about Ayn Rand (either favorably or unfavorably), locked them in a room without any pre-warning or internet access, and then asked them each to provide a 2-minute summary of "Atlas Shrugged," no more than 2 or 3 would be able to do so.

The percentage will go up slightly higher for books by Orwell, but not by much.


That's because very few people can get through more than a few chapters of he crap before giving up. Not even the derpiest libertarians can get through an entire book of hers without skipping through a lot of the crap. In that regard she is very like Tolkien (nobody reads the farking elf songs).
2012-08-14 05:25:56 PM
2 votes:
I'm willing to bet quite a bit of money that if you selected, at random, any 10 individuals who have ever posted in a thread about Ayn Rand (either favorably or unfavorably), locked them in a room without any pre-warning or internet access, and then asked them each to provide a 2-minute summary of "Atlas Shrugged," no more than 2 or 3 would be able to do so.

The percentage will go up slightly higher for books by Orwell, but not by much.
2012-08-14 05:21:19 PM
2 votes:
why do I not believe him....?
2012-08-14 05:04:50 PM
2 votes:
FTA:"I reject her philosophy," Ryan says firmly. "It's an atheist philosophy. It reduces human interactions down to mere contracts and it is antithetical to my worldview. If somebody is going to try to paste a person's view on epistemology to me, then give me Thomas Aquinas,"

God help us.
2012-08-14 05:00:39 PM
2 votes:

Ghastly: I'd rather read a thousand farking elf songs by J.R.R. Tolkien than one chapter of Ayn Rand's crap.


Tom Bombadil Shrugged
2012-08-14 04:52:44 PM
2 votes:
I've got an idea

Why dont we all pitch in some money and buy thousands of flip-floops and pass them out at Romney/Ryan events?
2012-08-14 04:41:19 PM
2 votes:
Went through college and grad school and never heard of Rand or the related books. Did I miss something, or was it all just derpy?
2012-08-15 02:02:23 PM
1 votes:

bhcompy: Dansker: bhcompy: sammyk: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Went through college and grad school and never heard of Rand or the related books. Did I miss something, or was it all just derpy?

The first I ever heard of it was from Machelle Malkin. I didn't bother looking into it any further. The cult like following it gets reminds me of The Turner Diaries.

So is this a troll? I say this because you sound like a Christian fundamentalist talking about why he won't read the Qur'an.

Ayn Rand doesn't have a billion followers, and her ideas barely have any significance in the world outside Libertarian, American college students. John Galt is about as important to political philosophy as Harry Potter.
But did you enjoy Das Kapital?

Rand doesn't have a billion followers, she doesn't really need to, her writings have provoked far more discourse and debate than Rowling.


I bet that's not even true. Unless you count high school book reports. Apparently some of you poor bastards don't even get a choice whether to read her or not.

Hell, I'd hazard to say that there are very few 20th century philosophical figures that have provoked more.

You realize that she is barely read outside the US, right? I hate to tell you this, but Objectivism is not a significant influence on real politics anywhere.

Ideas like hers are extremely important,

Which one is most important?

if nothing else because they obviously force people to consider their own ideas critically in order to shoot hers down

That's not only a huge assumption on your part, but also a very low threshold for "extremely important."
So, how did you like Das Kapital?
2012-08-15 09:28:46 AM
1 votes:
I read that Rand crap when I was 13 and understood it was nothing but a tantrum being thrown by an adult that never grew up.

If you have to make it to 19 before you see through right wing propaganda you are one big idiot. Maybe even a big fat idiot.
2012-08-15 05:24:06 AM
1 votes:

Weaver95: what if all the John Galt wannabes up and left...and society got better for it?


Thats more of a when, than a what-if, allow me:

When all the John Galt wannabes up and leave...society will get better.

John Galt's arent in it for society, they're in it for themselves. Without them, society will fill the vacuum naturally. Imagine an Eco-system where the top predator is removed. That system will prevail successfully. It's when the lower rungs of an Eco-system are removed that the system is jeopardized.
2012-08-15 03:56:24 AM
1 votes:
It quite a feat to hold these two thoughts at once, bhcompy
"I say this because you sound like a Christian fundamentalist talking about why he won't read the Qur'an."
" I said who cares what another person's philosophy is."
2012-08-15 03:26:18 AM
1 votes:

bhcompy: I didn't. I said who cares what another person's philosophy is. That's their business. This whole thread is all about shiatting on people because of their own personal philosophy, and that's counterproductive to a truly harmonious existence.


It is indeed their business when they aren't already a sitting public official and running for another government office with even greater direct control over the disposition of public funds.

Harmonious or not, putting a person that actively loathes collectivism and glorifies doing whatever one can for one's own benefit at the expense of others may not be the most appropriate choice for managing a large chunk of our collective goods that we would ostensibly like to benefit some not-Paul-Ryan people at some point.

In this specific case, your "not caring what his personal philosophy is" is not laudable tolerance, it's nihilistic negligence regarding your duty as a citizen that borders on actively harmful sociopathy. Neglecting your responsibility of informed citizenship is essentially sabotaging the workings of democracy.

Assuming you live in the US, of course. If not, carry on. I mean, shut the fark up when we're discussing US elected officials if all you've got is arbitrarily dismissive claptrap, but carry on in the more general sense.
2012-08-15 03:10:51 AM
1 votes:

bhcompy: I didn't. I said who cares what another person's philosophy is. That's their business. This whole thread is all about shiatting on people because of their own personal philosophy, and that's counterproductive to a truly harmonious existence.


When your personal philosophy is that you are better than everyone else, and you hope civilization burns in fire if you can't be appreciated correctly, than damn right it's other people's business. Lots of philosophies out there are our business, when they decide it makes them superior to others. I would reference a list, but you surely can make up your own. Start with 9/11 and work down from there.
2012-08-15 03:08:27 AM
1 votes:

bhcompy: This whole thread is all about shiatting on people because of their own personal philosophy, and that's counterproductive to a truly harmonious existence.


Stupid and vicious people make a philosophy out of attacking me and most of everyone else in the world, they're kind of already farking up harmony, so fark them.
2012-08-15 02:15:00 AM
1 votes:

Confabulat: This is beyond sci-fi and just purely in the realm of fantasy.


I would argue that it's exactly within the purview of SciFi. Someone discovers a new technology (or style of architecture, whatever) through sheer dumb luck. How do they, as a normal not-particularly-virtuous or otherwise worthy person, react? How does society react in turn?

I mean, her conclusions are kind of weird, as you'd expect from someone that was basically a soviet refugee mixing up soviet propaganda about the US with the US's own propaganda about itself, but the question is a valid SF theme and she's far from the only author that's taken a look at it.

A book that's somewhat less sympathetic to the protagonist and about a thousand times more brilliant, but looking at basically the same themes, would be Bester's The Stars My Destination. Man discovers amazing new widget through sheer happenstance, isn't a particularly nice man, reacts poorly to others trying to obtain it, and goes on a violent crusade against everyone he imagines has offended him as he convinces himself of his own superiority. Of course, this being Bester, the ending is less about one side being the good guys and another being bad and more a weird exploration of the actual psychology involved without a real moral at the end of the story.

Or you could go with the depressingly literal version of the theme and read The Count of Monte Cristo where a not-nice fellow literally finds a treasure through sheer luck and uses it in a sociopathic manner. If you're boring.

Yet Randians think this is how life is supposed to work. It's perfect for self-centered immature teenage boys convinced of their own superiority of everyone around them. That's sort of the defining characteristic of a Randian -- I'm better than everyone else, and it's the world's fault they don't recognize it, not mine. Most people grow out of that phase. Randians cling to it like a life preserver.

Admittedly, this is the weird thing about Rand's version of the story. Where Dumas (and most authors writing the tale) largely decided that this behavior was inappropriate (even though his protagonist, as in every version of the story, still gets off scot free in every real sense) and Bester made it clear throughout his version that it was flawed at best, Rand took it to its actual logical conclusion and made her characters literal sociopaths.

Which would have been kind of brilliant as a subversion, actually, if she wasn't actually in favor of sociopathy.

//fark all y'all, this is a literary analysis thread now.
2012-08-15 01:27:35 AM
1 votes:
It takes a real individual to disagree with other people posting on the internet, you know. A rugged individualist. Someone against the grain. A true libertarian hero. Like you.
2012-08-15 01:12:53 AM
1 votes:

jigger: Well, John Galt wasn't a CEO, he was just an employee and no one gave a shiat about him except when he claimed to invent some energy machine or something.


Howard Roark was just a new architect starting out in his field, but his architecture was so brilliant and amazing that he refused to listen to the demands of his clients or the input of his co-workers and superiors and built what he wanted anyway. Instead of being drummed out of the field, (oh he had a few rough days at first when people didn't always recognize his superiority to them), he because the greatest architect ever.

This is beyond sci-fi and just purely in the realm of fantasy. Yet Randians think this is how life is supposed to work. It's perfect for self-centered immature teenage boys convinced of their own superiority of everyone around them. That's sort of the defining characteristic of a Randian -- I'm better than everyone else, and it's the world's fault they don't recognize it, not mine. Most people grow out of that phase. Randians cling to it like a life preserver.
2012-08-15 12:00:03 AM
1 votes:
alternatively

http://www.mopie.com/blog/2006/01/atlas-shrugged-by-ayn-rand.html

Saturday, January 07, 2006
Atlas Shrugged (by Ayn Rand)
ATLAS SHRUGGED: THE ABRIDGED VERSION (with spoilers)

AYN RAND
Hello, I'm Ayn Rand. I wrote a novel based on my Objectivist philosophy called The Fountainhead, but I don't think 700 pages was quite enough to get my point across, so I will write the exact same novel, only it will take 1100 pages this time.

READERS
Hey, great.

HEROINE
I'm Dagny Taggart. I am a railroad tycoon, woman-in-a-man's-world, stunningly beautiful heroine. I am the only person capable of running this railroad. I am the only woman in the universe worth a damn. I am also the only woman in the universe with a real job. I am basically the only woman in this novel.

LOVE INTEREST #1
I have worshiped you, the only woman in the universe worth a damn, from afar for my whole life.

HEROINE
That's nice.

LOVE INTEREST #2
I have worshiped you, the only woman in the universe worth a damn, naked on the forest floor. Yet I will nobly step aside in the name of noble idealism, despite the fact that I love you and want you, the only woman in the universe worth a damn, desperately.

HEROINE
Okay.

LOVE INTEREST #3
I worship you, the only woman in the universe worth a damn. Let us have creepy rape fantasy sex now. I will not ask permission to do all these kinky things to you, but luckily you want to be forced into all the kinky things, you dirty biatch.

HEROINE
This is clearly true love! Stick it in me.

ALL
Who is John Galt?

AYN RAND
I am not telling. Instead, please listen to someone pontificate about my Objectivist philosophy for a while.

SOMEONE
[Pontificates]

VILLAINS
There are many of us, but we are all exactly the same. We are caricatures of evil socialists and embodiments of pure evil. Let us create a perfect socialist world order ruled by the inept! We all suck! Socialism sucks! Ha ha!

HEROES
We are all exactly the same. We are noble and perfect and have very angular and insolent faces. We can read each other's minds and the minds of everyone else in this novel, leaving less room for misunderstanding and more room for pontificating. And we are all in love with Dagny Taggart, the only woman in the universe worth a damn.

ALL
Who is John Galt?

VILLAIN
[Threatens hero.]

HERO
[Flips coin]
If it's heads, I will gaze apathetically. If it's tails, I will laugh heartily.

VILLAIN
Although these are the only two things any of you heroes have done for the past 800 pages, I am shocked at this response! How could you! How dare you!?!

HERO
I will now pontificate about Ayn Rand's philosophy. It has been at least 50 pages since you've heard it.

AYN RAND
It is so convenient that all of my heroes are in perfect agreement about my philosophy so that their pontificating is so interchangeable.

ALL
Who is John Galt?

JOHN GALT
Hello. In this, the culmination of all the pontificating, I will explain Ayn Rand's philosophy for a full 57 pages. No, I am not kidding. This one monologue will last for 57 pages. Oh and also, I love Dagny.

DAGNY
I love you too. Man, this is really going to suck for Love Interest #3.

LOVE INTEREST #3
Despite my passionate love for you and enjoyment of our rape sex, and the fact that there is no other woman on earth worth a damn, and the fact that I sacrificed my life's passion on your behalf, and that I spent my entire fortune to get a divorce to be with you, I will now nobly step aside in the name of noble idealism.

DAGNY
Great! I will miss our creepy rape sex. Farewell.

LOVE INTEREST #3
Bye.

READER
Wait, what?

ATLAS
[Shrugs]

THE END
2012-08-14 11:32:15 PM
1 votes:
could it be rand was foretelling the internet, with galt luring people from the real world to the virtual in search of reason?
2012-08-14 10:48:50 PM
1 votes:

Pocket Ninja: I'm willing to bet quite a bit of money that if you selected, at random, any 10 individuals who have ever posted in a thread about Ayn Rand (either favorably or unfavorably), locked them in a room without any pre-warning or internet access, and then asked them each to provide a 2-minute summary of "Atlas Shrugged," no more than 2 or 3 would be able to do so.

The percentage will go up slightly higher for books by Orwell, but not by much.


I disagree about Orwell. 1984 and Animal Farm are both engaging novels with good characters and gripping plots. I expect that many people could tell you about Winston and Julia and the ministry of truth and Boxer and Napolean and Squealer.

I tried to read Atlas Shrugged but it reminded me of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance - gives you a basic plot and characters and then procedes to preach boring nonsense at you until you put it down half way through and ask yourself why you wasted the time.
2012-08-14 10:45:32 PM
1 votes:

Pocket Ninja: I'm willing to bet quite a bit of money that if you selected, at random, any 10 individuals who have ever posted in a thread about Ayn Rand (either favorably or unfavorably), locked them in a room without any pre-warning or internet access, and then asked them each to provide a 2-minute summary of "Atlas Shrugged," no more than 2 or 3 would be able to do so.


Okay, testing myself on this one without reading the rest of the thread since I've never read the whole thing, but just read key chapters and a chunk of the monologue:

Geniuses worldover start vanishing. Dagny Taggart, a brilliant industrialist who inherited her father's company starts looking for them, driven by the exciting mention of the name John Galt. John Galt has been cleverly luring brilliant people away from the normal humdrum and letting society collapse because without them, everything falls apart. High-speed rail is the industry of interest to Dagny, because... her company makes Steel, I think. She bonks her way through a variety of different men, ranging from Morality Lesson Mistake to Strangely Sociopathically Perfect, and eventually falls in love with John Galt in a plot that features a massive train crash full of Average People because they didn't have Dagny Wonderful Taggart saving them from themselves, John Galt eventually hijacks the radio station and spends four hundred pages give or take explaining to everyone how capitalism is the best thing ever and there's nothing creepy about wanting to fark a serial killer who guts twelve year olds.

I think at the very end, John Galt is executed or something, and society collapses into ruin with all the normal average people dying, and only the Experts and the Brilliants standing in their Galt's Gulch that's fine and wonderful forever.

How badly did I mess up?
2012-08-14 10:26:15 PM
1 votes:
Ayn Rand's best album was 2112. Everything after that sucked balls.
2012-08-14 10:19:17 PM
1 votes:

Silly Jesus: Lionel Mandrake: Silly Jesus: Oh, I thought that the part where he states he hasn't read it, and then asks if it's all derpy, implied that he thought it was derpy without having read it. I should get my glasses checked, I guess. Derrrrp.

Yes, asks. He also asks if he had missed something, so you could just as easily say he implied it was worth reading.

You're not helping to disprove the image of Randians as idiots.

Yes, anyone who puts any value in her philosophy is an absolute idiot. Your intellect is vastly superior. I tremble in the presence of your tumescent brain. You have truly put me in my place. I now bow to you my lord.


You're pretty smug for a guy who doesn't know the difference between a declarative statement and a question.

By the way, I never expressed my opinion of Rand or her works in this thread, so your attacks on me are pretty childish.

You really need to stop making shiat up. It's more grown-up to debate people on the points they make, not the points you wish they had made.
2012-08-14 10:11:59 PM
1 votes:
So, Rachel Maddow just tore him apart by showing multiple videos of Ryan praising Ayn Rand and declaring that we were living in a Rand novel. It was amusing.
2012-08-14 10:09:01 PM
1 votes:
Criticisms of the philosophy aside, you do not interrupt the narrative of your story for 300 pages of manifesto.

Atlas Shrugged breaks one of the cardinals rules of fiction - "Show, don't tell"

And that's not even bringing up the terrible dialog and one dimensional characters.
2012-08-14 09:43:47 PM
1 votes:
Her non-fiction seems marginally more readable.
Not particularly solid philosophy, mind you. But at least the screeds in Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal and The Virtue of Selfishness were shorter and stand alone.

I've wondered a few times if Neil Stephenson wrote "Diamond Age" in part as a rebuttal to some of her work.
2012-08-14 09:31:25 PM
1 votes:
From Objectivist to Jesuit is not much of an improvement.
2012-08-14 09:09:10 PM
1 votes:

Omahawg: poor bastard is in omaha

[farm5.static.flickr.com image 500x375]

i got 25 pages into atlas shrugged once but then literally shrugged and said 'this is stupid and poorly written.'


No surprise since that's in the "rich white and conservative" part of town
2012-08-14 09:07:40 PM
1 votes:

Silly Jesus: Jaws_Victim: What, Ayn Rand thread and no one posts the classic sequel?

Allow me:
[1.bp.blogspot.com image 790x416]

idsfa: Seriously?

This long and no one (that I am not ignoring) posted it?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 790x416]



That would be clever, if the person who drew it had read the book. One of her heroes, Hugh Akston, leaves his position as a philosopher and works at a roadside diner. He could probably muster up a sandwich. There are plenty of other examples of her heroes accomplishing menial tasks.

This is the greater point that I was getting at up thread. Everyone thinks that they can just not read the book and form a reasoned opinion on her philosophy based on silly cartoons which would seem absurd to anyone who had actually read the damn thing.

Stupid cartoon is stupid.


The point of the cartoon isn't LITERALLY that the heroes can't make lunch, silly poster. The point is that the novel has a flawed premise, they can leave society forever but without the "stupid" laborer who isn't a billionaire to do your dirty work, you are forced to do it and become the laborer yourself. This is instead of being Titans of industry with mansions, servants, cooks, and drivers to do everything for them. No rich person is going to abandon their comfortable lifestyle and live in a shack because the government attempted to raise taxes (or the laughable plot of the novel where the government pretty much takes over everything and screws it all up and corporations are poor, harmless victims who only do good for their work force.)

Rand boils down to, I got mine, don't you farking touch it. This is delightful, if you're a psychopath.

/yes, I did read the novel
//my grade school education leads to the opinions above, pick it apart English Majors. now is your time to shine
2012-08-14 09:00:23 PM
1 votes:
FAN RADIAN FACT #2617: AYAN RAND WAS A FAN OF A CHILD ABDUCTOR AND SERIAL KILLER:

http://atheism.about.com/b/2011/05/11/ayn-rand-sociopath-who-admired - a -serial-killer.htm

http://exiledonline.com/atlas-shrieked-why-ayn-rands-right-wing-follo w ers-are-scarier-than-the-manson-family-and-the-gruesome-story-of-the-s erial-killer-who-stole-ayn-rands-heart/


www.peikoff.commurderpedia.org
exiledonline.com

"Hickman kidnapped Parker on December 15, 1927, by appearing at her junior high school, claiming that her father, Perry Parker, was ill, and that he wanted to see his daughter. He did not realize there were twin Parker daughters, and did not know either child's name, but the school administrator turned one of the girls over to him. The next day Hickman sent the first of three ransom notes to the Parker home, demanding $1,500 in $20 gold certificates.

On December 19, Parker delivered the ransom in Los Angeles but in return Hickman delivered the girl's dismembered body. Her arms and legs had been severed and her internal organs removed. A towel stuffed into her body to absorb blood led police to Hickman's apartment building, but he managed to escape. A $100,000 reward was offered for his capture, and for nearly a week Hickman eluded authorities."


Yep. This is the guy that Ayn patterned John Galt after because of his "rebel who lives by his own rules" attitude.
2012-08-14 08:46:54 PM
1 votes:

ps69: What happened to that trend of "Going Galt" that was reported to be widespread on Fox News shortly after Obama was elected and was being threatened by all the captains of industry who ran everything from right wing blogs to far right wing blogs. Did anyone make good on that promise, or did they sit back and collect their share of the massively growing corporate profits and continued low tax rate?


Also, if we increase taxes as much as Obama wants to (to somewhat less than 90s levels), we'll have massive capital flight and another round of Job Creators going Galt. Just like we did in the 90s.
2012-08-14 08:27:56 PM
1 votes:
The following are true statements that can be easily verified.

Paul Ryan has stated repeatedly that Ayn Rand is an inspiration to him. He strongly admires her philosophy and credits her with influencing him more than all others... he recently required that his aides read her work. This admiration is well documented.

Ayn Rand stated repeatedly that William Edward Hickman was an inspiration to her. She strongly admired his philosophy and based a major character on him... because he kidnapped, murdered, eviscerated and dismembered a twelve year old girl for money. This admiration was well documented.

The Republican candidate for vice-president is the same Paul Ryan. Be afraid.
He was hand picked after careful research by Mitt Romney. Be very afraid.
2012-08-14 08:14:31 PM
1 votes:

spongeboob: Please tell me what Communist and or Socialist Literature is?


Anything that talks about the concerns of the poor, or how society should work together to care for the least fortunate. So, y'know, the Gospels.
2012-08-14 08:13:06 PM
1 votes:

Silly Jesus: One of her heroes, Hugh Akston, leaves his position as a philosopher and works at a roadside diner. He could probably muster up a sandwich.


Yeah, provided the Sysco truck shows up on time.
2012-08-14 08:02:35 PM
1 votes:

Silly Jesus: How are they sociopaths? I assume you are talking about Galt and Dagny etc? I don't think that they are sociopaths at all. They very much respect those around them that aren't unfairly / unjustly asking / demanding something from them.


Her characters are sociopaths, by definition.

Her personal hero William Edward Hickman was in fact a sociopathic child murderer.

I thought you knew something about her?
2012-08-14 07:35:04 PM
1 votes:

Zagloba: Anthem is a hacktacular ripoff of Yevgeny Zamyatin's We. That is all.


You're right, but Anthem remains remarkable because it a) is a readable length, and b) completely conveys the entirety of Rand's philosophical underpinnings.

With Atlas and Fountainhead, you've gotta wonder if she was getting paid by the word. Also, the fact that a short novella can communicate the entirety of Rand's philosophical depth tells you all you need to know about it.

I do find it interesting to see Ryan talk about Aquinas- Rand and Aquinas both have something in common: neither one of them understood Aristotle worth a damn.
2012-08-14 07:32:34 PM
1 votes:

Silly Jesus: Yes, because a great deal of the comments don't begin with "I've never read or heard of Rand, but I think she's an idiot and her ideas are BS."


I didn't have to read Mein Kampf, the Turner Diaries, or the Unibomber Manifesto either.
2012-08-14 07:31:38 PM
1 votes:
It's so important that we go back to our roots to look at Ayn Rand's vision, her writings, to see what our girding, under-grounding [sic] principles are. I always go back to, you know, Francisco d'Anconia's speech (at Bill Taggart's wedding) on money when I think about monetary policy.

Wow, it's been a long time since I read Rand's novels so I forgot all about Francisco d'Anconia. I've got to ask, what kind of farking bunghole gives a speech about money at a wedding? She's writing a fantasy world in which she can make the heroes perfect in every way and the villians as terrible as she wants. So she makes one of the heroes give a windbag speech at someone's wedding? Yeah, everyone has that one uncle who farks things up during the toast but usually his drunk ass is quickly pulled off stage by his wife. Certainly not the kind of thing you'd celebrate as being heroic.
2012-08-14 07:29:13 PM
1 votes:
This another go-no where proposition. The only people in a red state like mine who know anything about Ayn Rand are the libertarians and liberals. Together they make up a few neighborhoods in Omaha. Everyone else is a believer in 0bama the time traveling secrit muslin usurper, who must be stopped at all costs.
2012-08-14 07:20:05 PM
1 votes:

Fano: A man chooses. A slave obeys. Good for Ryan. I plan on moving to his undersea land any day now.


You should bring your little sister.
2012-08-14 07:19:29 PM
1 votes:
Is this the thread where people who have never read a book, much less understand the basic ideas contained therein, bash it because that's what all the cool libtard trolls do?

*reads first 50 posts*

Yep, meets the Fark formula.

Carry on.
2012-08-14 07:18:37 PM
1 votes:
You're not a 19 year old who's gone to college.
You're a 42 year old who is apparently keen on being VP.

Bull. Shiat.
2012-08-14 07:18:11 PM
1 votes:

Mercutio74: Who is Paul Ryan???


A collection of several trillion cells eager to do the US Chamber of Commerce's bidding. Some f*cking objectivist he turned out to be.
2012-08-14 07:14:13 PM
1 votes:

WhyteRaven74: Fark You I'm Drunk: I'm pretty sure Neil Peart and obsessive Rush fanboys are the only reason there are people past the age of 19 who like Ayn Rand.

Actually Peart got past Rand ages ago.


Peart did, but a lot of his fans didn't. 2112/Anthem/Closer to the Heart is based on Rand, therefore Ayn Rand is the greatest thing ever.
2012-08-14 07:05:42 PM
1 votes:

TV's Vinnie: A cute little side-story was when The Question first heard about the Rorschach character, identified with him, and tried to emulate him.


Cool. Hadn't seen that. Thx.
2012-08-14 07:04:54 PM
1 votes:
Rand remarked that the core idea for the book came to her after a 1943 telephone conversation with a friend, who asserted that Rand owed it to her readers to write a nonfiction book about her philosophy. Rand replied, "What if I went on strike? What if all the creative minds of the world went on strike?"

Really?

This is today's GOP go-to? Creative minds?

Please, get Adelson and Trump and Rove and the Koch's and Foster Friese and the rest of those scumsucking, greedy bastards to go on strike. Oh yeah, Mitt, too.

Please!

/Creative? Not really, no.
2012-08-14 07:03:37 PM
1 votes:

Triumph: FTA:"I reject her philosophy," Ryan says firmly. "It's an atheist philosophy. It reduces human interactions down to mere contracts and it is antithetical to my worldview. If somebody is going to try to paste a person's view on epistemology to me, then give me Thomas Aquinas,"

God help us.


So from one of the worst minds of the 20th century to one of the worst minds of the 13th century?
Not an improvement by any measure...
2012-08-14 07:03:36 PM
1 votes:

BojanglesPaladin: Although in Fairness, Moore based Rorschach on the Question anyway, so....


A cute little side-story was when The Question first heard about the Rorschach character, identified with him, and tried to emulate him.

media.comicvine.com
www.revolutionsf.com
www.revolutionsf.com
www.revolutionsf.com
www.revolutionsf.com

By the end of the story, The Question came to the obvious conclusion...........

www.revolutionsf.com
2012-08-14 06:57:25 PM
1 votes:
What happened to that trend of "Going Galt" that was reported to be widespread on Fox News shortly after Obama was elected and was being threatened by all the captains of industry who ran everything from right wing blogs to far right wing blogs. Did anyone make good on that promise, or did they sit back and collect their share of the massively growing corporate profits and continued low tax rate?
2012-08-14 06:56:16 PM
1 votes:
I'm pretty sure Neil Peart and obsessive Rush fanboys are the only reason there are people past the age of 19 who like Ayn Rand.
2012-08-14 06:55:42 PM
1 votes:
In reality, are you an Ayn Rand fan if you receive hundreds of thousands of dollars in government subsidy? I suppose it's okay because Ayn Rand herself went on Social Security.
2012-08-14 06:54:01 PM
1 votes:
If you're going to be fascinated with fiction writers couldn't they at least be entertaining? I don't agree with much of Heinlein or Pournelle but at least they knew how to carry a story.
2012-08-14 06:50:21 PM
1 votes:
Her grave in Westchester, NY makes a great place to piss if your ever on a road trip.
2012-08-14 06:41:49 PM
1 votes:
You know who else got rid of their Master in their ambition to become more powerful?

img2-1.timeinc.net

Darth Grannystarver is just following in that tradition. Ayn would have been SO proud!
2012-08-14 06:39:34 PM
1 votes:

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Went through college and grad school and never heard of Rand or the related books. Did I miss something, or was it all just derpy?


It's pretty derpy. Bad writing and the purest form of the "I've got mine, fark you" philosophy. If you're in the mood for an author with Objectivist leanings, try The Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind. Much better writing, and he manages to hide his "Individualism GOOOD, collectivism BAAAD" pretty well until the fourth or fifth book.
2012-08-14 06:39:04 PM
1 votes:

Dafatone: I actually liked The Fountainhead.

Not because I agree with the "philosophy". God no. I'm pretty damned liberaltastic.

But the characters were so skewed and unrealistic as to be impressive. It's difficult to make characters that are that extreme.


And yet Dick Armey dreamed up the Tea Party and their Merry Band of Patriots, and the world hasn't stopped LULZing since.
2012-08-14 06:39:03 PM
1 votes:
Ryan's renouncing Ayn Rand now? Well, this should be entertaining.

Ryan's speech outlined his fascination with Rand - whose novels preach personal accountability and a rejection of altruism- while growing up, recalling how it impacted him so much that he required his interns and staff to read both of her iconic novels. Ryan also cited in the 2005 speech character monologues from the novels that have informed his personal and political views:

hee hee! You made your staff read both of her books!
2012-08-14 06:37:44 PM
1 votes:
I actually liked The Fountainhead.

Not because I agree with the "philosophy". God no. I'm pretty damned liberaltastic.

But the characters were so skewed and unrealistic as to be impressive. It's difficult to make characters that are that extreme.
2012-08-14 06:35:02 PM
1 votes:

Weaver95: that's ok. he'd do pretty well in Rapture.


He is entitled to the sweat of his brow, after all.
2012-08-14 06:08:13 PM
1 votes:

Ghastly: Pocket Ninja: Ghastly: In that regard she is very like Tolkien (nobody reads the farking elf songs).

YOU LIE. Tolkien is scintillating reading. He was a storyteller's storyteller.

Frodo set down the ring and sank to the earth in repose. From his backpack, Sam produced a flask of water and some Elven Lembas, and from his waistpouch a small, sealed tin. The tin had been crafted by the tinsmith L'Ortheala'i of the second line of Durenorathala during the Second Age, on the High Night of Pancrea when the Solenil were running in the crystal water from high Holitla and the Darklmunnerors lay yet beneath the graven stones of their forebears who had not yet descended from the lofty heights of Arameir to craft their stony halls. Inside the tin lay a single pat of Glumeliian Butter, which had not been seen in the Shire since the first days of the last days of Sam's mother's father, known to some as his grandfather, who had traveled the Windy Trail beneath the Solemn Mist of the Mount of Holitakea to beseech the Caravan Master of Noriktha, himself of the second line of Durenorathala, to attend the upcoming Festival Harvest of Firhtyta and sell some butter there. Which Sam's mother's father/Grandfather did buy and save in the shallows of the cool Hoytr's water, and which Sam had dutifully carried with him from the moment of their departure.

With the butter knife that had had been crafted by his second cousin Hal, who had been borne during the Third Coming of the Second Rising of the Fourth Turning of the Seventh House and had traveled to Genedain to learn the craft of butter knife forging from the Elven smith Lorelairlahdsthgfksdghjk, son of Ka, Sam spread a pat of Glumeliian Butter on the Lembas and handed the small morsel to Frodo.

"Mmm," Frodo said. "This is some very tasty butter."

[cdn.chud.com image 400x300]


Brilliant
2012-08-14 05:52:35 PM
1 votes:

Pocket Ninja: Ghastly: In that regard she is very like Tolkien (nobody reads the farking elf songs).

YOU LIE. Tolkien is scintillating reading. He was a storyteller's storyteller.

Frodo set down the ring and sank to the earth in repose. From his backpack, Sam produced a flask of water and some Elven Lembas, and from his waistpouch a small, sealed tin. The tin had been crafted by the tinsmith L'Ortheala'i of the second line of Durenorathala during the Second Age, on the High Night of Pancrea when the Solenil were running in the crystal water from high Holitla and the Darklmunnerors lay yet beneath the graven stones of their forebears who had not yet descended from the lofty heights of Arameir to craft their stony halls. Inside the tin lay a single pat of Glumeliian Butter, which had not been seen in the Shire since the first days of the last days of Sam's mother's father, known to some as his grandfather, who had traveled the Windy Trail beneath the Solemn Mist of the Mount of Holitakea to beseech the Caravan Master of Noriktha, himself of the second line of Durenorathala, to attend the upcoming Festival Harvest of Firhtyta and sell some butter there. Which Sam's mother's father/Grandfather did buy and save in the shallows of the cool Hoytr's water, and which Sam had dutifully carried with him from the moment of their departure.

With the butter knife that had had been crafted by his second cousin Hal, who had been borne during the Third Coming of the Second Rising of the Fourth Turning of the Seventh House and had traveled to Genedain to learn the craft of butter knife forging from the Elven smith Lorelairlahdsthgfksdghjk, son of Ka, Sam spread a pat of Glumeliian Butter on the Lembas and handed the small morsel to Frodo.

"Mmm," Frodo said. "This is some very tasty butter."


cdn.chud.com
2012-08-14 05:47:13 PM
1 votes:

Pocket Ninja: I'm willing to bet quite a bit of money that if you selected, at random, any 10 individuals who have ever posted in a thread about Ayn Rand (either favorably or unfavorably), locked them in a room without any pre-warning or internet access, and then asked them each to provide a 2-minute summary of "Atlas Shrugged," no more than 2 or 3 would be able to do so.


And I'm willing to bet 9/10 of farkers that post in gun control threads can't accurately describe being shot. *ptbtpttb*
2012-08-14 05:37:38 PM
1 votes:
Neither Rand, nor any Objectivist I've met, truly understood/understand* one of the core tenets of their philosophy, rational self-interest.

.
.
.

*how exactly are you supposed to switch between tenses when talking about both the living and the dead?
2012-08-14 05:36:02 PM
1 votes:

Nadie_AZ: Weaver95: why do I not believe him....?

Could you step in here for a moment?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 200x153]


no. that room is wall to wall 'hello kitty' and I left my flame thrower at home.
2012-08-14 05:27:27 PM
1 votes:

Weaver95: why do I not believe him....?


Could you step in here for a moment?

1.bp.blogspot.com
2012-08-14 05:22:34 PM
1 votes:

AdolfOliverPanties: Hmmm..different attribution. Funny either way.


looks like your'e right - krugman was quoting rogers.
2012-08-14 05:07:28 PM
1 votes:
i waded through the fountainhead when i was 15 or so. i tried atlas shrugged, but gave up a third of the way through. it was just so badly written.
2012-08-14 04:37:39 PM
1 votes:
"I am no longer fascinated by the woman. She was but flesh, she was mortal and flawed and imperfect. Now I know that it is not the woman but the ideas that she espoused that I should worship. It is the ideas, the ideals, the capitalistic ideological purity, that command my affections and steer my policy."
 
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