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(New York Daily News)   Paul Ryan renounces Ayn Rand, like most readers did when they were 19   (nydailynews.com) divider line 420
    More: Obvious, Ayn Rand, Thomas Aquinas, WNYC, Mitt Romney  
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4410 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Aug 2012 at 6:25 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-15 09:46:04 AM

bhcompy: Confabulat: Yet Randians think this is how life is supposed to work. It's perfect for self-centered immature teenage boys convinced of their own superiority of everyone around them. That's sort of the defining characteristic of a Randian -- I'm better than everyone else, and it's the world's fault they don't recognize it, not mine. Most people grow out of that phase. Randians cling to it like a life preserver.

If that motivates you to success in whatever profession you choose, who cares? Works for Kobe Bryant, worked for Steve Jobs, works for lots of people.


Being an objectivist is neither necessary nor sufficient (nor, I would dare say, even particularly helpful) for success. I'd wager there are far more Rand-worshipping janitors than there are Steve Jobs...es, and they are all just as convinced of their own superiority to their fellow man as he was. Not to mention, there are plenty of very successful people who live their lives completely counter to her sociopathic garbage (Bill Gates, anyone?).
 
2012-08-15 09:57:29 AM
wonder why Ryan is backing away from Ayn now?

did he not realize her philosophy was essentially the antithesis of what Jesus taught until the church told him so?
does he still not realize the budget he put up is something bizzaro-Jesus might come up with?

Ryan can't just back away from Rand while still pushing her poisonous world view in policy.
It's not just your Rand worship Ryan, it's the affect that life long worship has had on your political views that's disgusting to anyone who gives a rat's ass about their fellow man.

watching Ryan distance himself from this crap right now only shows him to be a power hungry windsock in addition to being a Randian sociopath.
 
2012-08-15 10:43:21 AM
I saw Silly Jesus admit to trolling by copypasting PETA rubbish in a thread about steak a few days ago.

Link

That was mildly amusing, I guess. But his trolling efforts in this thread have been pathetic. He's going in the ignore bin now. Up your game, son, because you're not even a funny troll.
 
2012-08-15 10:46:22 AM

Pocket Ninja: Ghastly: In that regard she is very like Tolkien (nobody reads the farking elf songs).

YOU LIE. Tolkien is scintillating reading. He was a storyteller's storyteller.

Frodo set down the ring and sank to the earth in repose. From his backpack, Sam produced a flask of water and some Elven Lembas, and from his waistpouch a small, sealed tin. The tin had been crafted by the tinsmith L'Ortheala'i of the second line of Durenorathala during the Second Age, on the High Night of Pancrea when the Solenil were running in the crystal water from high Holitla and the Darklmunnerors lay yet beneath the graven stones of their forebears who had not yet descended from the lofty heights of Arameir to craft their stony halls. Inside the tin lay a single pat of Glumeliian Butter, which had not been seen in the Shire since the first days of the last days of Sam's mother's father, known to some as his grandfather, who had traveled the Windy Trail beneath the Solemn Mist of the Mount of Holitakea to beseech the Caravan Master of Noriktha, himself of the second line of Durenorathala, to attend the upcoming Festival Harvest of Firhtyta and sell some butter there. Which Sam's mother's father/Grandfather did buy and save in the shallows of the cool Hoytr's water, and which Sam had dutifully carried with him from the moment of their departure.

With the butter knife that had had been crafted by his second cousin Hal, who had been borne during the Third Coming of the Second Rising of the Fourth Turning of the Seventh House and had traveled to Genedain to learn the craft of butter knife forging from the Elven smith Lorelairlahdsthgfksdghjk, son of Ka, Sam spread a pat of Glumeliian Butter on the Lembas and handed the small morsel to Frodo.

"Mmm," Frodo said. "This is some very tasty butter."


Is there like a Pocket Ninja greatest hits album? If so, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
 
2012-08-15 11:26:23 AM

gameshowhost: PsiChick: Pocket Ninja: I'm willing to bet quite a bit of money that if you selected, at random, any 10 individuals who have ever posted in a thread about Ayn Rand (either favorably or unfavorably), locked them in a room without any pre-warning or internet access, and then asked them each to provide a 2-minute summary of "Atlas Shrugged," no more than 2 or 3 would be able to do so.

The percentage will go up slightly higher for books by Orwell, but not by much.

Atlas Shrugged is a novel in which Ayn Rynd lays out her main ideals on egocentrism as the driving force of the world, using a semi-Heroic Journey pattern with dystopic settings and themes.

/Less than two minutes, but it's what the average writer needs to know.

The funny thing is that egocentrism (at least as far as self-interest is concerned) *IS* the driving force of the world. The problem she runs into is denying that egocentrism also accounts for the Free Rider Effect (e.g. "people will dump off shiatty externalities onto others and the best outcome to society is necessarily ruined if said people aren't FORCED to comply with the appropriate remedies"... i.e. yes, Ayn Rand, you stupid, nasty coont, there *are* things in this world that can't be solved by farking freewheeling it).

So anyhow, it's even funnier that some idiots still can't identify that painfully-simple side of the human nature coin.

Funnier yet is that the dead cumdumpster's swing-and-a-miss re: this most rudimentary aspect of our species' behavior lives on, only to farking ruin everything for nearly everyone on the planet.

/for that matter, they also think that everything can be assigned property rights
//jesus farking christ, you stupid farkholes, how the fark does that work on, say, AIR
///god i farking hate free market ideologues


...I'd actually argue that, for most neurologically typical people (i.e. if your brain is normal), altruism is a completely valid idea. People do enjoy doing things for other people, that's been scientifically proven. Yes, you could argue that they only like it because their brain gives them the happy hormones, but then you'd also be saying that the only reason people like sex is because of happy hormones--sure, you're technically correct, but for all intents and purposes, there really isn't any reason to get that technical.

Now, a surprising number of people are neurologically atypical without being mentally ill. But that doesn't mean egocentrism is the driving force of human nature. It's just one of many driving forces.
 
2012-08-15 11:28:40 AM

Dansker: bhcompy: sammyk: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Went through college and grad school and never heard of Rand or the related books. Did I miss something, or was it all just derpy?

The first I ever heard of it was from Machelle Malkin. I didn't bother looking into it any further. The cult like following it gets reminds me of The Turner Diaries.

So is this a troll? I say this because you sound like a Christian fundamentalist talking about why he won't read the Qur'an.

Ayn Rand doesn't have a billion followers, and her ideas barely have any significance in the world outside Libertarian, American college students. John Galt is about as important to political philosophy as Harry Potter.
But did you enjoy Das Kapital?


Rand doesn't have a billion followers, she doesn't really need to, her writings have provoked far more discourse and debate than Rowling. Hell, I'd hazard to say that there are very few 20th century philosophical figures that have provoked more. Ideas like hers are extremely important, if nothing else because they obviously force people to consider their own ideas critically in order to shoot hers down

sammyk: Not trolling. Both seem to attract retards that base their personal philosophy on bad fiction. I have better things to do with my time.


I find this sad. There is no reason not to expand your mind simply because you disagree with the subject.

Jim_Callahan: In this specific case, your "not caring what his personal philosophy is" is not laudable tolerance, it's nihilistic negligence regarding your duty as a citizen that borders on actively harmful sociopathy. Neglecting your responsibility of informed citizenship is essentially sabotaging the workings of democracy.


There is a difference between being informed and not caring. If you don't like his personal philosophy, don't vote for him. You don't need to get all frothy in the mouth about it.
 
2012-08-15 11:36:24 AM

BeesNuts: timujin: Neither Rand, nor any Objectivist I've met, truly understood/understand* one of the core tenets of their philosophy, rational self-interest.

.
.
.
*how exactly are you supposed to switch between tenses when talking about both the living and the dead?

Neither is your subject.

Neither Rand, nor any Objectivist I have met has understood one of the core tenets of their philosophy: Rational Self Interest.

Present Perfect Tense solves the problem for you.


Damn, I never was any good with present perfect.

/ironic, really, as I'm presently perfect.
 
2012-08-15 11:38:44 AM
I think all thinking people should reject the notions promugated by Rand, and instead reward nonproductive losers for being nonproductive losers, just as if they were not really parasites on society.
 
2012-08-15 11:59:48 AM

SevenizGud: I think all thinking people should reject the notions promugated by Rand, and instead reward nonproductive losers for being nonproductive losers, just as if they were not really parasites on society.


OK. What kind of reward would you like?
 
2012-08-15 12:24:38 PM

SevenizGud: I think all thinking people should reject the notions promugated by Rand, and instead reward nonproductive losers for being nonproductive losers, just as if they were not really parasites on society.


Unfortunately, society already does reward nonproductive losers for being nonproductive losers. That's what Wall Street is for.
 
2012-08-15 12:50:24 PM
It is amazing how a guy like Paul Ryan can just shrug off a philosophy he basically lived his life by until Saturday when he became the Republican V.P. candidate. Same with him now distancing himself from his political claim to fame, his budget. It is like dude has no real principals or he is a liar. No wonder Mitt Romney liked him for V.P..
 
2012-08-15 01:23:33 PM

bhcompy: Phil Moskowitz: America is the only country that could take "wah! they took my daddies company so those communists are the debil" ethos and raise it to literature. It's a disgrace, and is very telling how damaged the US is even in what some consider intellectual circles.

History is littered with countries that persecuted people and destroyed works for being against the government imposed(or even socially imposed) moral standards. The fact that some Russian chick can immigrate here and write something that would have gotten her gulagged in Russia is a testament to the openness of this nation. People like you are the disgrace. Maybe you don't like the story, maybe you don't like the author, maybe you don't like the philosophy, but that isn't a problem compared to damning America because it allowed someone to write a goddamn motherfarking book you farking tool.


You're that asshole untethered to reality. You think that one guy paddling against the rest of society is not only the one to beat but the apotheosis of humanity. Hitler set up the wehrmacht and the SS in direct competition in just that way. Competition breeding the best humanity can create. Not people working together to create something beyond man.
 
2012-08-15 01:32:01 PM

bhcompy: sammyk: Not trolling. Both seem to attract retards that base their personal philosophy on bad fiction. I have better things to do with my time.

I find this sad. There is no reason not to expand your mind simply because you disagree with the subject.


It's not that I don't seek enlightenment. I do so daily. But I find political philosophy masquerading as fiction boring and dishonest. In fact mixing politics and art just does not work. The only reason I would read Ayn Rand would be to gain knowlege to use against Rand worshipers and I have kind of grown out of that.
 
2012-08-15 02:02:23 PM

bhcompy: Dansker: bhcompy: sammyk: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Went through college and grad school and never heard of Rand or the related books. Did I miss something, or was it all just derpy?

The first I ever heard of it was from Machelle Malkin. I didn't bother looking into it any further. The cult like following it gets reminds me of The Turner Diaries.

So is this a troll? I say this because you sound like a Christian fundamentalist talking about why he won't read the Qur'an.

Ayn Rand doesn't have a billion followers, and her ideas barely have any significance in the world outside Libertarian, American college students. John Galt is about as important to political philosophy as Harry Potter.
But did you enjoy Das Kapital?

Rand doesn't have a billion followers, she doesn't really need to, her writings have provoked far more discourse and debate than Rowling.


I bet that's not even true. Unless you count high school book reports. Apparently some of you poor bastards don't even get a choice whether to read her or not.

Hell, I'd hazard to say that there are very few 20th century philosophical figures that have provoked more.

You realize that she is barely read outside the US, right? I hate to tell you this, but Objectivism is not a significant influence on real politics anywhere.

Ideas like hers are extremely important,

Which one is most important?

if nothing else because they obviously force people to consider their own ideas critically in order to shoot hers down

That's not only a huge assumption on your part, but also a very low threshold for "extremely important."
So, how did you like Das Kapital?
 
2012-08-15 08:00:13 PM
i'm about as Libtastic as you can get, but I enjoyed The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged.

When i was 21. Still in college. Didn't have a real job or anything to worry about except what a professor thought of my essay.

Then I graduated from college and went to work.

10 years later, I realized why Atlas Shrugged is in the 'fiction' section of the bookstore.
 
2012-08-15 08:55:37 PM

immafattie: i'm about as Libtastic as you can get, but I enjoyed The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged.


Why? Be specific.
 
2012-08-15 08:59:06 PM

whidbey: immafattie: i'm about as Libtastic as you can get, but I enjoyed The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged.

Why? Be specific.


I enjoyed the frequent subject-verb agreement. You?
 
2012-08-15 09:06:42 PM

EngineerAU: peasandcarrots: I can almost always tell a modern objectivist writer by the way they write children. For some reason, children in objectivist books don't just talk like full-grown adults, but they talk like fully-actualized well-rounded intelligent adults who are capable of unpacking and analyzing all their inner demons and assessing a potential strategy for dealing with them.

Pretty much this. Long time ago I read a book named 'The Illuminati" by Larry Burkett that had elementary school age children breaking in to long winded soliloquies about the Liberals and how their policies destroy the world. Ten times more wacky than anything Rand ever wrote since Burkett adds in his fundamentalist Christian worldview. Throw in some anti-technology ranting and you've got grouchy-rightwing-uncle-in-a-book.

I bought the book because I enjoyed The Illuminatus Trilogy and thought it was similar. Wow, was I ever surprised by the difference. But it's worth reading just because it is so derpy and the writing is so bad (the author makes simple mistakes like not knowing how to spell 'Point Mugu' correctly). Amazon has it used for a penny plus shipping if you want a laugh.


Google "The Girl who Owned a City."

Oh.
My.
God.
 
2012-08-15 09:35:26 PM

BojanglesPaladin: whidbey: immafattie: i'm about as Libtastic as you can get, but I enjoyed The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged.

Why? Be specific.

I enjoyed the frequent subject-verb agreement. You?


Some of the really long-winded paragraphs/run-on sentences are kind of fun to read. In a trainwreck type state of mind. I guess.
 
2012-08-15 10:22:26 PM

whidbey: BojanglesPaladin: whidbey: immafattie: i'm about as Libtastic as you can get, but I enjoyed The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged.

Why? Be specific.

I enjoyed the frequent subject-verb agreement. You?

Some of the really long-winded paragraphs/run-on sentences are kind of fun to read. In a trainwreck type state of mind. I guess.


Agreed. I felt it helped build my reading stamina and pain thresholds.
 
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