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(New York Daily News)   Paul Ryan renounces Ayn Rand, like most readers did when they were 19   (nydailynews.com) divider line 420
    More: Obvious, Ayn Rand, Thomas Aquinas, WNYC, Mitt Romney  
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4412 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Aug 2012 at 6:25 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-14 07:49:37 PM  

HeartBurnKid: 2x COMBO FILTERPWN!


finish him
 
2012-08-14 07:49:45 PM  

HeartBurnKid: MayoSlather: MayoSlather: Lando Lincoln: Here's a much more thorough and undoubtedly accurate summary of it. Even the summary is extremely tedious. Ayn Rand sucked as a writer

I actually liked some of her essays...not in full but she'shiat and miss but she'shiat and miss on her philosophy. The misses are dreadful, but the hits are interesting and occasionally logically sound.

oops

2x COMBO FILTERPWN!



I already addressed the double fail...but thanks for bringing it up again.
 
2012-08-14 07:50:06 PM  

Silly Jesus: If that's all that you can muster though, I understand.


Spoken like a true Randian.
 
2012-08-14 07:50:36 PM  

timujin: Neither Rand, nor any Objectivist I've met, truly understood/understand* one of the core tenets of their philosophy, rational self-interest.
.
*how exactly are you supposed to switch between tenses when talking about both the living and the dead?


*Unless you met the living in the future, you farking wizard, or are currently meeting with them in the present--which you are not, because "I've met"--the past should be just fine.
 
2012-08-14 07:50:53 PM  

Silly Jesus: Yes. Believe it or not the only discussion about Mein Kampf isn't "Hitler bad", "I agree", "OK, next book."


I have 10 million plus reasons to know 'Hitler bad'. I don't need a book full of his rationalizing to know why.

If that's all that you can muster though, I understand.

Well aren't you the special snowflake. Next time don't overcook my fries or I'm telling your manager.
 
2012-08-14 07:51:18 PM  

Silly Jesus: the merit of specific aspects of her philosophy


Her heroes are sociopaths.
 
2012-08-14 07:51:24 PM  

peasandcarrots: They're so convinced that they think and communicate with utter cubic logic in all things that they believe that the mere fact that the logic exists must mean that it's correct.


EARTH HAS 4 CORNER
SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY
RAND CUBE
WITHIN SINGLE ROTATION.
 
2012-08-14 07:52:19 PM  

Without Fail: Silly Jesus: Yes, because a great deal of the comments don't begin with "I've never read or heard of Rand, but I think she's an idiot and her ideas are BS."

Her heroes are sociopaths.


Hey, that's better than "Rand bad."

How are they sociopaths? I assume you are talking about Galt and Dagny etc? I don't think that they are sociopaths at all. They very much respect those around them that aren't unfairly / unjustly asking / demanding something from them.
 
2012-08-14 07:52:32 PM  

Silly Jesus: Yes. Believe it or not the only discussion about Mein Kampf isn't "Hitler bad", "I agree", "OK, next book."


"Hey, I think that Hitler guy was on to something"?
 
2012-08-14 07:53:05 PM  

Lando Lincoln: Spoken like a true Randian.


If he wasn't held down by the parasites (and possibly the Jews) he would be able to show just how superior he truly is to all of us.
 
2012-08-14 07:53:18 PM  

Gimmick: The plot of Atlas Shrugged in 12 seconds.


HA! That's exactly like the moochers.
 
2012-08-14 07:53:23 PM  

Silly Jesus: Without Fail: Silly Jesus: Yes, because a great deal of the comments don't begin with "I've never read or heard of Rand, but I think she's an idiot and her ideas are BS."

Her heroes are sociopaths.

Hey, that's better than "Rand bad."

How are they sociopaths? I assume you are talking about Galt and Dagny etc? I don't think that they are sociopaths at all. They very much respect those around them that aren't unfairly / unjustly asking / demanding something from them.


Another thing you don't understand: The meaning of the term "sociopath".
 
2012-08-14 07:57:23 PM  

Lando Lincoln: Silly Jesus: If that's all that you can muster though, I understand.

Spoken like a true Randian.


How so, grasshoppa?
 
2012-08-14 07:58:13 PM  

Ghastly: I'd rather read a thousand farking elf songs by J.R.R. Tolkien than one chapter of Ayn Rand's crap.


Wish granted! Kind of
Passing of the Elves (10 hours)
 
2012-08-14 07:58:33 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Silly Jesus: Yes. Believe it or not the only discussion about Mein Kampf isn't "Hitler bad", "I agree", "OK, next book."

I have 10 million plus reasons to know 'Hitler bad'. I don't need a book full of his rationalizing to know why.

If that's all that you can muster though, I understand.

Well aren't you the special snowflake. Next time don't overcook my fries or I'm telling your manager.


Your intellectual curiosity is astounding.

/Ding! Fries are done!
 
2012-08-14 07:59:13 PM  

Silly Jesus: Lando Lincoln: Silly Jesus: If that's all that you can muster though, I understand.

Spoken like a true Randian.

How so, grasshoppa?


Did you vote for Bush in 2000?
 
2012-08-14 07:59:41 PM  
Seriously?

This long and no one (that I am not ignoring) posted it?

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-08-14 07:59:52 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: Silly Jesus: Without Fail: Silly Jesus: Yes, because a great deal of the comments don't begin with "I've never read or heard of Rand, but I think she's an idiot and her ideas are BS."

Her heroes are sociopaths.

Hey, that's better than "Rand bad."

How are they sociopaths? I assume you are talking about Galt and Dagny etc? I don't think that they are sociopaths at all. They very much respect those around them that aren't unfairly / unjustly asking / demanding something from them.

Another thing you don't understand: The meaning of the term "sociopath".


so·ci·o·path/ˈsōsēōˌpaTH/
Noun:
A person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.
 
2012-08-14 08:00:15 PM  
What, Ayn Rand thread and no one posts the classic sequel?

Allow me:
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-08-14 08:00:25 PM  
FTA:"I reject her philosophy," Ryan says firmly. "It's an atheist philosophy. It reduces human interactions down to mere contracts and it is antithetical to my worldview. If somebody is going to try to paste a person's view on epistemology to me, then give me Thomas Aquinas,"

Funny how he
1) Just came to this realization "just now"
2) It is now derpy to like and also denounce Ayn Rand......Double yew, tee, eff
 
2012-08-14 08:01:06 PM  

Silly Jesus: Your intellectual curiosity is astounding.


Some of us have better pursuits for our intellectual curiosity than the rationalization of resentment.
 
2012-08-14 08:01:07 PM  

Curse of the Goth Kids: Silly Jesus: Lando Lincoln: Silly Jesus: If that's all that you can muster though, I understand.

Spoken like a true Randian.

How so, grasshoppa?

Did you vote for Bush in 2000?


Nope. Libertarian. If I was forced to vote for one of the two main parties I'd usually vote Democrat...but my state is decidedly red so I don't bother.
 
2012-08-14 08:02:10 PM  

Silly Jesus: Curse of the Goth Kids: Silly Jesus: Lando Lincoln: Silly Jesus: If that's all that you can muster though, I understand.

Spoken like a true Randian.

How so, grasshoppa?

Did you vote for Bush in 2000?

Nope. Libertarian. If I was forced to vote for one of the two main parties I'd usually vote Democrat...but my state is decidedly red so I don't bother.


You're a little old to be believing in Leprechauns, aren't you?
 
2012-08-14 08:02:35 PM  

Silly Jesus: How are they sociopaths? I assume you are talking about Galt and Dagny etc? I don't think that they are sociopaths at all. They very much respect those around them that aren't unfairly / unjustly asking / demanding something from them.


Her characters are sociopaths, by definition.

Her personal hero William Edward Hickman was in fact a sociopathic child murderer.

I thought you knew something about her?
 
2012-08-14 08:02:54 PM  

idsfa: Seriously?

This long and no one (that I am not ignoring) posted it?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 790x416]


Well, it IS important enough to get posted twice.
 
2012-08-14 08:04:14 PM  

Confabulat: I read The Fountainhead in my early 20s on a good friend's recommendation, with no real preconceptions of her work or philosophy. It's one of those books that you actually get angry at the author for 1) rambling for pages and pages about utter unrealistic nonsense and pretending it's wisdom; and 2) being a terrible writer on every level while doing that.

If you're going to feed me crap, make it entertaining crap. Rand couldn't even do that. I felt like taking a shower to get that book off me when I was done. Horrible characters, horrible philosophy, just a total disaster of a book. I have heard Atlas Shrugged is better but I'd probably prefer just taking an icepick to my eyeballs rather than try.


I liked Anthem, but only read it once don't know how it would do with a second reading. The Fountainhead I couldn't finish, made it less than halfway through.

I think Anthem might have been based on someone else's book.
 
2012-08-14 08:08:32 PM  

Jaws_Victim: What, Ayn Rand thread and no one posts the classic sequel?

Allow me:
[1.bp.blogspot.com image 790x416]


idsfa: Seriously?

This long and no one (that I am not ignoring) posted it?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 790x416]




That would be clever, if the person who drew it had read the book. One of her heroes, Hugh Akston, leaves his position as a philosopher and works at a roadside diner. He could probably muster up a sandwich. There are plenty of other examples of her heroes accomplishing menial tasks.

This is the greater point that I was getting at up thread. Everyone thinks that they can just not read the book and form a reasoned opinion on her philosophy based on silly cartoons which would seem absurd to anyone who had actually read the damn thing.

Stupid cartoon is stupid.
 
2012-08-14 08:08:48 PM  

Silly Jesus: A Dark Evil Omen: Silly Jesus: Without Fail: Silly Jesus: Yes, because a great deal of the comments don't begin with "I've never read or heard of Rand, but I think she's an idiot and her ideas are BS."

Her heroes are sociopaths.

Hey, that's better than "Rand bad."

How are they sociopaths? I assume you are talking about Galt and Dagny etc? I don't think that they are sociopaths at all. They very much respect those around them that aren't unfairly / unjustly asking / demanding something from them.

Another thing you don't understand: The meaning of the term "sociopath".

so·ci·o·path/ˈsōsēōˌpaTH/
Noun:
A person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.


Hmm. Dictionary. Interesting choice. So, just so we're clear, we need to read hundreds of pages of bad sci-fi to understand a sophomoric personal philosophy that can be adequately summed up in a few sentences, but a few pages in the ICD or DSM is too much to understand a fairly prevalent real personality complex? Do I have that completely right?
 
2012-08-14 08:09:09 PM  
I can't vote for the R anyway since i found out that romney murdered that poor dude's wife.
 
2012-08-14 08:09:37 PM  

randomjsa: Yes, people grow up and embrace reality. Except the people who read socialist and communist literature, they never do.

Then we elect them president and wonder why people who never grew up make such lousy presidents.

Hopefully we can put an adult back in the WH in November.


Please tell me what Communist and or Socialist Literature is?

Anyone?
 
2012-08-14 08:09:52 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Silly Jesus: Your intellectual curiosity is astounding.

Some of us have better pursuits for our intellectual curiosity than the rationalization of resentment.


So you are not in the least curious how the minds of those that you disagree with work? That must get very boring.
 
2012-08-14 08:10:29 PM  

Curse of the Goth Kids: Silly Jesus: Curse of the Goth Kids: Silly Jesus: Lando Lincoln: Silly Jesus: If that's all that you can muster though, I understand.

Spoken like a true Randian.

How so, grasshoppa?

Did you vote for Bush in 2000?

Nope. Libertarian. If I was forced to vote for one of the two main parties I'd usually vote Democrat...but my state is decidedly red so I don't bother.

You're a little old to be believing in Leprechauns, aren't you?


Que?
 
2012-08-14 08:11:26 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Ghastly: In that regard she is very like Tolkien (nobody reads the farking elf songs).

YOU LIE. Tolkien is scintillating reading. He was a storyteller's storyteller.

Frodo set down the ring and sank to the earth in repose. From his backpack, Sam produced a flask of water and some Elven Lembas, and from his waistpouch a small, sealed tin. The tin had been crafted by the tinsmith L'Ortheala'i of the second line of Durenorathala during the Second Age, on the High Night of Pancrea when the Solenil were running in the crystal water from high Holitla and the Darklmunnerors lay yet beneath the graven stones of their forebears who had not yet descended from the lofty heights of Arameir to craft their stony halls. Inside the tin lay a single pat of Glumeliian Butter, which had not been seen in the Shire since the first days of the last days of Sam's mother's father, known to some as his grandfather, who had traveled the Windy Trail beneath the Solemn Mist of the Mount of Holitakea to beseech the Caravan Master of Noriktha, himself of the second line of Durenorathala, to attend the upcoming Festival Harvest of Firhtyta and sell some butter there. Which Sam's mother's father/Grandfather did buy and save in the shallows of the cool Hoytr's water, and which Sam had dutifully carried with him from the moment of their departure.

With the butter knife that had had been crafted by his second cousin Hal, who had been borne during the Third Coming of the Second Rising of the Fourth Turning of the Seventh House and had traveled to Genedain to learn the craft of butter knife forging from the Elven smith Lorelairlahdsthgfksdghjk, son of Ka, Sam spread a pat of Glumeliian Butter on the Lembas and handed the small morsel to Frodo.

"Mmm," Frodo said. "This is some very tasty butter."


You beautiful bastard. I almost fell out of my chair there.
 
2012-08-14 08:13:06 PM  

Silly Jesus: One of her heroes, Hugh Akston, leaves his position as a philosopher and works at a roadside diner. He could probably muster up a sandwich.


Yeah, provided the Sysco truck shows up on time.
 
2012-08-14 08:14:31 PM  

spongeboob: Please tell me what Communist and or Socialist Literature is?


Anything that talks about the concerns of the poor, or how society should work together to care for the least fortunate. So, y'know, the Gospels.
 
2012-08-14 08:15:13 PM  

Loucifer: This is why Romney loves Ryan. Like Mitt, Paul can immediately abandon long held beliefs as soon as it becomes convenient. You don't find someone as breath takingly shallow as that every day. Mitt is extremely impressed.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
2012-08-14 08:15:19 PM  

Without Fail: Silly Jesus: How are they sociopaths? I assume you are talking about Galt and Dagny etc? I don't think that they are sociopaths at all. They very much respect those around them that aren't unfairly / unjustly asking / demanding something from them.

Her characters are sociopaths, by definition.

The media definition or the DSM IV definition? I may agree with you on the media's popular definition, but it doesn't fit the actual diagnostic criteria very well at all.

Her personal hero William Edward Hickman was in fact a sociopathic child murderer.

And this impacts the philosophy of Atlas Shrugged how?

I thought you knew something about her?

I do. I just didn't choose to focus on irrelevant side-shows that people lacking an argument resort to.

 
2012-08-14 08:15:55 PM  
More than anything else the fascist-apologist Ayn Rand hated all religions, and the Catholic Church in particular.

She's turning her grave that the mormoonie and the altar boy have teamed up to restore Amerika, and force feed us their vapid religiosly derived "values".
 
2012-08-14 08:15:59 PM  

sammyk: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Went through college and grad school and never heard of Rand or the related books. Did I miss something, or was it all just derpy?

The first I ever heard of it was from Machelle Malkin. I didn't bother looking into it any further. The cult like following it gets reminds me of The Turner Diaries.


So is this a troll? I say this because you sound like a Christian fundamentalist talking about why he won't read the Qur'an.
 
2012-08-14 08:17:07 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: Silly Jesus: A Dark Evil Omen: Silly Jesus: Without Fail: Silly Jesus: Yes, because a great deal of the comments don't begin with "I've never read or heard of Rand, but I think she's an idiot and her ideas are BS."

Her heroes are sociopaths.

Hey, that's better than "Rand bad."

How are they sociopaths? I assume you are talking about Galt and Dagny etc? I don't think that they are sociopaths at all. They very much respect those around them that aren't unfairly / unjustly asking / demanding something from them.

Another thing you don't understand: The meaning of the term "sociopath".

so·ci·o·path/ˈsōsēōˌpaTH/
Noun:
A person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.

Hmm. Dictionary. Interesting choice. So, just so we're clear, we need to read hundreds of pages of bad sci-fi to understand a sophomoric personal philosophy that can be adequately summed up in a few sentences, but a few pages in the ICD or DSM is too much to understand a fairly prevalent real personality complex? Do I have that completely right?


Huh? I was posting the "popular" definition of sociopath that he was using.

The characters don't fit the DSM IV criteria very well at all.
 
2012-08-14 08:18:12 PM  
Oh great a randian with a lot of free time on his hands. This thread should be fun.
 
2012-08-14 08:18:44 PM  

spongeboob: randomjsa: Yes, people grow up and embrace reality. Except the people who read socialist and communist literature, they never do.

Then we elect them president and wonder why people who never grew up make such lousy presidents.

Hopefully we can put an adult back in the WH in November.

Please tell me what Communist and or Socialist Literature is?

Anyone?


There's lots of good literature on socialist, communist and anarchist theory and practice. I used to have a variety of resource and literature links in my profile; I should redo them with updated information. To begin with I'd suggest checking out works by Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, Rudolf Rocker and Peter Kropotkin. If you want fiction, George Orwell and Upton Sinclair have some significant classics.
 
2012-08-14 08:19:03 PM  

Craptastic: "The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand," - Paul Ryan (2005)

"I grew up reading Ayn Rand and it taught me quite a bit about who I am and what my value systems are," he told the group, adding, "It's inspired me so much that it's required reading in my office for all my interns and my staff." - Paul Ryan (2005)

"I give out 'Atlas Shrugged' as Christmas presents." - Paul Ryan (2007)

"What's unique about what's happening today in government, in the world, in America, is that it's as if we're living in an Ayn Rand novel right now," Ryan said in a series of videos posted to Facebook in 2009. "I think Ayn Rand did the best job of anybody to build a moral case of capitalism, and that morality of capitalism is under assault." - Paul Ryan (2009)

"I, like millions of young people in America, read Rand's novels when I was young. I enjoyed them," he said. "...[but] I reject her philosophy." - Paul Ryan (2012)

so.....he was young in 2009, but now he's much more mature?

Dear Congressman Ryan,

THE INTERNET DOES NOT FORGET. Also, fark you, you farking liar.


God help us all. Republican party needs an industrial level hosing.
 
2012-08-14 08:19:09 PM  

Curse of the Goth Kids: Silly Jesus: One of her heroes, Hugh Akston, leaves his position as a philosopher and works at a roadside diner. He could probably muster up a sandwich.

Yeah, provided the Sysco truck shows up on time.


3.bp.blogspot.com

Again, I said at the outset that I like her ideas in theory, but don't necessarily believe that they would work in the real world.
 
2012-08-14 08:20:38 PM  

Silly Jesus: Lionel Mandrake: Silly Jesus: Is this the thread where people who have never read a book, much less understand the basic ideas contained therein, bash it because that's what all the cool libtard trolls do?

*reads first 50 posts*

Yep, meets the Fark formula.

Carry on.

Is this the thread where some Randian shows up and issues a blank dismissal of criticism by simply assuming none of the critics have ever read Rand (because if they did, they would know what a great intellectual and writer she was)?

Yep, carry on

Yes, because a great deal of the comments don't begin with "I've never read or heard of Rand, but I think she's an idiot and her ideas are BS."



A "great deal?" How many? Out of the first 50? Can you point some out? What I see is mostly, I HAVE read Rand, and she is BS"

Hell, just point out ONE
 
2012-08-14 08:20:40 PM  

Silly Jesus: Curse of the Goth Kids: Silly Jesus: One of her heroes, Hugh Akston, leaves his position as a philosopher and works at a roadside diner. He could probably muster up a sandwich.

Yeah, provided the Sysco truck shows up on time.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 290x180]

Again, I said at the outset that I like her ideas in theory, but don't necessarily believe that they would work in the real world.


Then we agree that you're a little old to be believing in leprechauns. Glad to hear it.
 
2012-08-14 08:23:21 PM  

Pocket Ninja: YOU LIE. Tolkien is scintillating reading. He was a storyteller's storyteller.


Do that again, but this time as written by George RR Martin.
 
2012-08-14 08:24:43 PM  
lh4.googleusercontent.com
 
2012-08-14 08:25:27 PM  
I broke down and read Atlas Shrugged a few years ago, after hearing nearly everyone I knew rant about how god-awful it was; I wanted to see it for myself.

Holy shiat is that book farking god-awful. I had an easier time getting through Gravity's Rainbow, and that book makes Atlas Shrugged read like See Spot Run. I don't get the hard-on, figuratively or literally, people have for that book or Ayn Rand.
 
2012-08-14 08:25:30 PM  

Silly Jesus: A Dark Evil Omen: Silly Jesus: A Dark Evil Omen: Silly Jesus: Without Fail: Silly Jesus: Yes, because a great deal of the comments don't begin with "I've never read or heard of Rand, but I think she's an idiot and her ideas are BS."

Her heroes are sociopaths.

Hey, that's better than "Rand bad."

How are they sociopaths? I assume you are talking about Galt and Dagny etc? I don't think that they are sociopaths at all. They very much respect those around them that aren't unfairly / unjustly asking / demanding something from them.

Another thing you don't understand: The meaning of the term "sociopath".

so·ci·o·path/ˈsōsēōˌpaTH/
Noun:
A person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.

Hmm. Dictionary. Interesting choice. So, just so we're clear, we need to read hundreds of pages of bad sci-fi to understand a sophomoric personal philosophy that can be adequately summed up in a few sentences, but a few pages in the ICD or DSM is too much to understand a fairly prevalent real personality complex? Do I have that completely right?

Huh? I was posting the "popular" definition of sociopath that he was using.

The characters don't fit the DSM IV criteria very well at all.


Lack of remorse, as indicated by rationalizing harm to others. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behavior. Deception. Constant irresponsibility. They fit the ICD-10 criteria even more closely.
 
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