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(New York Daily News)   Paul Ryan renounces Ayn Rand, like most readers did when they were 19   ( nydailynews.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Ayn Rand, Thomas Aquinas, WNYC, Mitt Romney  
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4426 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Aug 2012 at 6:25 PM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



420 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2012-08-14 04:37:39 PM  
"I am no longer fascinated by the woman. She was but flesh, she was mortal and flawed and imperfect. Now I know that it is not the woman but the ideas that she espoused that I should worship. It is the ideas, the ideals, the capitalistic ideological purity, that command my affections and steer my policy."
 
2012-08-14 04:41:19 PM  
Went through college and grad school and never heard of Rand or the related books. Did I miss something, or was it all just derpy?
 
2012-08-14 04:46:14 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Went through college and grad school and never heard of Rand or the related books. Did I miss something, or was it all just derpy?


The first I ever heard of it was from Machelle Malkin. I didn't bother looking into it any further. The cult like following it gets reminds me of The Turner Diaries.
 
2012-08-14 04:49:10 PM  
Wouldn't big banks be considered leechers under Ayn Rand?

/haven't read any of her books
 
2012-08-14 04:51:17 PM  
I'd rather read a thousand farking elf songs by J.R.R. Tolkien than one chapter of Ayn Rand's crap.
 
2012-08-14 04:52:44 PM  
I've got an idea

Why dont we all pitch in some money and buy thousands of flip-floops and pass them out at Romney/Ryan events?
 
2012-08-14 04:59:58 PM  
I read The Fountainhead in my early 20s on a good friend's recommendation, with no real preconceptions of her work or philosophy. It's one of those books that you actually get angry at the author for 1) rambling for pages and pages about utter unrealistic nonsense and pretending it's wisdom; and 2) being a terrible writer on every level while doing that.

If you're going to feed me crap, make it entertaining crap. Rand couldn't even do that. I felt like taking a shower to get that book off me when I was done. Horrible characters, horrible philosophy, just a total disaster of a book. I have heard Atlas Shrugged is better but I'd probably prefer just taking an icepick to my eyeballs rather than try.
 
2012-08-14 05:00:39 PM  

Ghastly: I'd rather read a thousand farking elf songs by J.R.R. Tolkien than one chapter of Ayn Rand's crap.


Tom Bombadil Shrugged
 
2012-08-14 05:04:50 PM  
FTA:"I reject her philosophy," Ryan says firmly. "It's an atheist philosophy. It reduces human interactions down to mere contracts and it is antithetical to my worldview. If somebody is going to try to paste a person's view on epistemology to me, then give me Thomas Aquinas,"

God help us.
 
2012-08-14 05:06:21 PM  
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

-- Paul Krugman
 
2012-08-14 05:07:28 PM  
i waded through the fountainhead when i was 15 or so. i tried atlas shrugged, but gave up a third of the way through. it was just so badly written.
 
2012-08-14 05:08:36 PM  

FlashHarry: "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

-- Paul Krugman


bartcop.comView Full Size


Hmmm..different attribution. Funny either way.
 
2012-08-14 05:21:19 PM  
why do I not believe him....?
 
2012-08-14 05:22:34 PM  

AdolfOliverPanties: Hmmm..different attribution. Funny either way.


looks like your'e right - krugman was quoting rogers.
 
2012-08-14 05:24:48 PM  

AdolfOliverPanties: FlashHarry: "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

-- Paul Krugman

[www.bartcop.com image 377x408]

Hmmm..different attribution. Funny either way.


Krugman apparently quoted it in his blog: Link
 
2012-08-14 05:25:56 PM  
I'm willing to bet quite a bit of money that if you selected, at random, any 10 individuals who have ever posted in a thread about Ayn Rand (either favorably or unfavorably), locked them in a room without any pre-warning or internet access, and then asked them each to provide a 2-minute summary of "Atlas Shrugged," no more than 2 or 3 would be able to do so.

The percentage will go up slightly higher for books by Orwell, but not by much.
 
2012-08-14 05:27:27 PM  

Weaver95: why do I not believe him....?


Could you step in here for a moment?

1.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size
 
2012-08-14 05:35:00 PM  
My favorite part of Atlas shrugged was when the girl kept trying on hats and her friends were all, like, girrrrrrl. That hat is way too floppy for your face, and then they were all just laughing because after all, who needs that man? He doesn't even know what he lost, girl. He doesn't even know. You are so pretty. I'm serious. I would kill for your hair. OR FAKE AN ORGASM.

The end.
 
2012-08-14 05:36:02 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Weaver95: why do I not believe him....?

Could you step in here for a moment?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 200x153]


no. that room is wall to wall 'hello kitty' and I left my flame thrower at home.
 
2012-08-14 05:37:38 PM  
Neither Rand, nor any Objectivist I've met, truly understood/understand* one of the core tenets of their philosophy, rational self-interest.

.
.
.

*how exactly are you supposed to switch between tenses when talking about both the living and the dead?
 
2012-08-14 05:37:42 PM  
I had to read the Fountainhead in high school, and the entire class pretty much agreed the author had to be clinically insane.
 
2012-08-14 05:44:02 PM  

Pocket Ninja: I'm willing to bet quite a bit of money that if you selected, at random, any 10 individuals who have ever posted in a thread about Ayn Rand (either favorably or unfavorably), locked them in a room without any pre-warning or internet access, and then asked them each to provide a 2-minute summary of "Atlas Shrugged," no more than 2 or 3 would be able to do so.

The percentage will go up slightly higher for books by Orwell, but not by much.


That's because very few people can get through more than a few chapters of he crap before giving up. Not even the derpiest libertarians can get through an entire book of hers without skipping through a lot of the crap. In that regard she is very like Tolkien (nobody reads the farking elf songs).
 
2012-08-14 05:47:13 PM  

Pocket Ninja: I'm willing to bet quite a bit of money that if you selected, at random, any 10 individuals who have ever posted in a thread about Ayn Rand (either favorably or unfavorably), locked them in a room without any pre-warning or internet access, and then asked them each to provide a 2-minute summary of "Atlas Shrugged," no more than 2 or 3 would be able to do so.


And I'm willing to bet 9/10 of farkers that post in gun control threads can't accurately describe being shot. *ptbtpttb*
 
2012-08-14 05:47:56 PM  

Ghastly: In that regard she is very like Tolkien (nobody reads the farking elf songs).


YOU LIE. Tolkien is scintillating reading. He was a storyteller's storyteller.

Frodo set down the ring and sank to the earth in repose. From his backpack, Sam produced a flask of water and some Elven Lembas, and from his waistpouch a small, sealed tin. The tin had been crafted by the tinsmith L'Ortheala'i of the second line of Durenorathala during the Second Age, on the High Night of Pancrea when the Solenil were running in the crystal water from high Holitla and the Darklmunnerors lay yet beneath the graven stones of their forebears who had not yet descended from the lofty heights of Arameir to craft their stony halls. Inside the tin lay a single pat of Glumeliian Butter, which had not been seen in the Shire since the first days of the last days of Sam's mother's father, known to some as his grandfather, who had traveled the Windy Trail beneath the Solemn Mist of the Mount of Holitakea to beseech the Caravan Master of Noriktha, himself of the second line of Durenorathala, to attend the upcoming Festival Harvest of Firhtyta and sell some butter there. Which Sam's mother's father/Grandfather did buy and save in the shallows of the cool Hoytr's water, and which Sam had dutifully carried with him from the moment of their departure.

With the butter knife that had had been crafted by his second cousin Hal, who had been borne during the Third Coming of the Second Rising of the Fourth Turning of the Seventh House and had traveled to Genedain to learn the craft of butter knife forging from the Elven smith Lorelairlahdsthgfksdghjk, son of Ka, Sam spread a pat of Glumeliian Butter on the Lembas and handed the small morsel to Frodo.

"Mmm," Frodo said. "This is some very tasty butter."
 
2012-08-14 05:52:35 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Ghastly: In that regard she is very like Tolkien (nobody reads the farking elf songs).

YOU LIE. Tolkien is scintillating reading. He was a storyteller's storyteller.

Frodo set down the ring and sank to the earth in repose. From his backpack, Sam produced a flask of water and some Elven Lembas, and from his waistpouch a small, sealed tin. The tin had been crafted by the tinsmith L'Ortheala'i of the second line of Durenorathala during the Second Age, on the High Night of Pancrea when the Solenil were running in the crystal water from high Holitla and the Darklmunnerors lay yet beneath the graven stones of their forebears who had not yet descended from the lofty heights of Arameir to craft their stony halls. Inside the tin lay a single pat of Glumeliian Butter, which had not been seen in the Shire since the first days of the last days of Sam's mother's father, known to some as his grandfather, who had traveled the Windy Trail beneath the Solemn Mist of the Mount of Holitakea to beseech the Caravan Master of Noriktha, himself of the second line of Durenorathala, to attend the upcoming Festival Harvest of Firhtyta and sell some butter there. Which Sam's mother's father/Grandfather did buy and save in the shallows of the cool Hoytr's water, and which Sam had dutifully carried with him from the moment of their departure.

With the butter knife that had had been crafted by his second cousin Hal, who had been borne during the Third Coming of the Second Rising of the Fourth Turning of the Seventh House and had traveled to Genedain to learn the craft of butter knife forging from the Elven smith Lorelairlahdsthgfksdghjk, son of Ka, Sam spread a pat of Glumeliian Butter on the Lembas and handed the small morsel to Frodo.

"Mmm," Frodo said. "This is some very tasty butter."


cdn.chud.comView Full Size
 
2012-08-14 06:02:20 PM  
Atlas Shrugged is about this superhuman business guy named John Galt who was super awesome at everything he did and one day he just checked out of society because he was tired of all of the mindless bureaucratic red-tape regulations and union bullshiat that surrounds running a business in a modern society like ours. And people freaked out because without John Galt around, everything was going to shiat. And then other really important business tycoons did the same thing. And then all of the union workers and politicians were really sad and miserable and jobless, because the super awesome job creators weren't around to lead them to prosperity and super awesome living. So the moral of the story is, keep sucking rich guy dick or they'll fark you in the ass.
 
2012-08-14 06:03:33 PM  
what if all the John Galt wannabes up and left...and society got better for it?
 
2012-08-14 06:08:13 PM  

Ghastly: Pocket Ninja: Ghastly: In that regard she is very like Tolkien (nobody reads the farking elf songs).

YOU LIE. Tolkien is scintillating reading. He was a storyteller's storyteller.

Frodo set down the ring and sank to the earth in repose. From his backpack, Sam produced a flask of water and some Elven Lembas, and from his waistpouch a small, sealed tin. The tin had been crafted by the tinsmith L'Ortheala'i of the second line of Durenorathala during the Second Age, on the High Night of Pancrea when the Solenil were running in the crystal water from high Holitla and the Darklmunnerors lay yet beneath the graven stones of their forebears who had not yet descended from the lofty heights of Arameir to craft their stony halls. Inside the tin lay a single pat of Glumeliian Butter, which had not been seen in the Shire since the first days of the last days of Sam's mother's father, known to some as his grandfather, who had traveled the Windy Trail beneath the Solemn Mist of the Mount of Holitakea to beseech the Caravan Master of Noriktha, himself of the second line of Durenorathala, to attend the upcoming Festival Harvest of Firhtyta and sell some butter there. Which Sam's mother's father/Grandfather did buy and save in the shallows of the cool Hoytr's water, and which Sam had dutifully carried with him from the moment of their departure.

With the butter knife that had had been crafted by his second cousin Hal, who had been borne during the Third Coming of the Second Rising of the Fourth Turning of the Seventh House and had traveled to Genedain to learn the craft of butter knife forging from the Elven smith Lorelairlahdsthgfksdghjk, son of Ka, Sam spread a pat of Glumeliian Butter on the Lembas and handed the small morsel to Frodo.

"Mmm," Frodo said. "This is some very tasty butter."

[cdn.chud.com image 400x300]


Brilliant
 
2012-08-14 06:16:38 PM  

Weaver95: no. that room is wall to wall 'hello kitty' and I left my flame thrower at home.


Last time I was in a room decorated with a wall to wall hello kitty motif it was when I was a "guest" of the Abu Sayyef on Mindanao. If that's the motif in room 101 I'm not going there either.
 
2012-08-14 06:28:00 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Ghastly: In that regard she is very like Tolkien (nobody reads the farking elf songs).

YOU LIE. Tolkien is scintillating reading. He was a storyteller's storyteller.

Frodo set down the ring and sank to the earth in repose. From his backpack, Sam produced a flask of water and some Elven Lembas, and from his waistpouch a small, sealed tin. The tin had been crafted by the tinsmith L'Ortheala'i of the second line of Durenorathala during the Second Age, on the High Night of Pancrea when the Solenil were running in the crystal water from high Holitla and the Darklmunnerors lay yet beneath the graven stones of their forebears who had not yet descended from the lofty heights of Arameir to craft their stony halls. Inside the tin lay a single pat of Glumeliian Butter, which had not been seen in the Shire since the first days of the last days of Sam's mother's father, known to some as his grandfather, who had traveled the Windy Trail beneath the Solemn Mist of the Mount of Holitakea to beseech the Caravan Master of Noriktha, himself of the second line of Durenorathala, to attend the upcoming Festival Harvest of Firhtyta and sell some butter there. Which Sam's mother's father/Grandfather did buy and save in the shallows of the cool Hoytr's water, and which Sam had dutifully carried with him from the moment of their departure.

With the butter knife that had had been crafted by his second cousin Hal, who had been borne during the Third Coming of the Second Rising of the Fourth Turning of the Seventh House and had traveled to Genedain to learn the craft of butter knife forging from the Elven smith Lorelairlahdsthgfksdghjk, son of Ka, Sam spread a pat of Glumeliian Butter on the Lembas and handed the small morsel to Frodo.

"Mmm," Frodo said. "This is some very tasty butter."


Then, Frodo and Sam travelled 800 miles to the elf forest. Along the way they were shot at, stabbed, and robbed. When they got to the elf forest, they started hearing an ethereal voice...

Kleais, toth misrai
plan onc crea,
Alathandor,
pis mo be ach

ophimar walam spala
uichinal hraman poar
spole aras framana ghil
khaten cheez bhurga

olomesh prenai
sepelet prenem
freisa jumit pargala
vog on po etri


Then there was a big battle, and a whole bunch of people got killed, and then Sam and Frodo crawled up Mount Doom and dropped the ring in, so that was pretty much that for the forces of Mordor. It made Aragorn so happy that he started singing a song in Elvish.

palathama spiin coh mon
peramana, kal lwath mai shon...


...and so on, for another 800 pages.
 
2012-08-14 06:28:49 PM  

Confabulat: I read The Fountainhead in my early 20s on a good friend's recommendation, with no real preconceptions of her work or philosophy. It's one of those books that you actually get angry at the author for 1) rambling for pages and pages about utter unrealistic nonsense and pretending it's wisdom; and 2) being a terrible writer on every level while doing that.

If you're going to feed me crap, make it entertaining crap. Rand couldn't even do that. I felt like taking a shower to get that book off me when I was done. Horrible characters, horrible philosophy, just a total disaster of a book. I have heard Atlas Shrugged is better but I'd probably prefer just taking an icepick to my eyeballs rather than try.


Whoever said Atlas Shrugged is better is either lying or stupid. It's essentially a longer, more rambling version of The Fountainhead.
 
2012-08-14 06:29:17 PM  
Well now he's never going to be let into Galt's Gulch.
 
2012-08-14 06:30:56 PM  
Yes, people grow up and embrace reality. Except the people who read socialist and communist literature, they never do.

Then we elect them president and wonder why people who never grew up make such lousy presidents.

Hopefully we can put an adult back in the WH in November.
 
2012-08-14 06:31:03 PM  

Weaver95: what if all the John Galt wannabes up and left...and society got better for it?


They wouldn't, they could care less about the collectivist needs of society. They would hang around in their hoverrounds biatching about how corporate taxes are high, therefore R&D budgets are low, and therefore he, the dependent inventor who prides himself on his independence, wouldn't have any money to invent.
 
2012-08-14 06:31:59 PM  

randomjsa: Yes, people grow up and embrace reality. Except the people who read socialist and communist literature, they never do.

Then we elect them president and wonder why people who never grew up make such lousy presidents.

Hopefully we can put an adult back in the WH in November.


You sound tired, random.
 
2012-08-14 06:32:11 PM  
I admit I skipped most of the radio address. Just like I would have in real life. 50 farking pages of rambling speech is no way to win hearts and minds Mr. Galt.
 
2012-08-14 06:32:11 PM  
She was his entire reason for getting into politics, and for years he would give her books away to everyone he knew. Somehow, after years and years of worshipping her, he found out she was a crazy Russian atheist. It's good to know that this "serious" Republican does such great due diligence before swallowing an ideology hook line and sinker. He is truly the face of the modern GOP.
 
2012-08-14 06:32:17 PM  
Because a man who would cast aside a lifetime of belief for a moment of power is the kind of man I would the trust the future to.

/No, I don't like Rand.
//But he's been her disciple for his entire adult life.
///What will he cast aside next?
 
2012-08-14 06:32:19 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Well now he's never going to be let into Galt's Gulch.


that's ok. he'd do pretty well in Rapture.
 
2012-08-14 06:32:58 PM  
This is why Romney loves Ryan. Like Mitt, Paul can immediately abandon long held beliefs as soon as it becomes convenient. You don't find someone as breath takingly shallow as that every day. Mitt is extremely impressed.
 
2012-08-14 06:34:16 PM  

Weaver95: Philip Francis Queeg: Well now he's never going to be let into Galt's Gulch.

that's ok. he'd do pretty well in Rapture.


Nah, the Papists don't get raptured.
 
2012-08-14 06:35:02 PM  

Weaver95: that's ok. he'd do pretty well in Rapture.


He is entitled to the sweat of his brow, after all.
 
2012-08-14 06:35:23 PM  

randomjsa:
Then we elect them president and wonder why people who never grew up make such lousy presidents.


well yeah but don't be TOO hard on GWB. The market was imploding and banks failing over like dominoes. if he didn't turn the country socialist he'd have been the president responsible for kicking off the Great Depression 2.0. I guess he was ok with being known as the Republican president who made the country socialist instead of the guy who destroyed the country's economy.
 
2012-08-14 06:35:58 PM  
Ayn Rand Paul Ryan Gosling will be the name of my first child.

He will be a chain-smoking atheist Catholic optometrist with incredible abs and a shriveled up heartless dick who believes the gold standard and objectivism will be the saviors of humanity.

//so proud already
 
2012-08-14 06:36:36 PM  
So he keeps the things he likes about the philosophy, while ignoring all the other parts that he doesn't like, even if they are necessary to make it a coherent whole?

How very christian of him!
 
2012-08-14 06:36:37 PM  

Dalrint: Weaver95: that's ok. he'd do pretty well in Rapture.

He is entitled to the sweat of his brow, after all.


I understand that the genetic mutations are reasonably priced AND you get the insanity for free!
 
2012-08-14 06:37:44 PM  
I actually liked The Fountainhead.

Not because I agree with the "philosophy". God no. I'm pretty damned liberaltastic.

But the characters were so skewed and unrealistic as to be impressive. It's difficult to make characters that are that extreme.
 
2012-08-14 06:39:03 PM  
Ryan's renouncing Ayn Rand now? Well, this should be entertaining.

Ryan's speech outlined his fascination with Rand - whose novels preach personal accountability and a rejection of altruism- while growing up, recalling how it impacted him so much that he required his interns and staff to read both of her iconic novels. Ryan also cited in the 2005 speech character monologues from the novels that have informed his personal and political views:

hee hee! You made your staff read both of her books!
 
2012-08-14 06:39:04 PM  

Dafatone: I actually liked The Fountainhead.

Not because I agree with the "philosophy". God no. I'm pretty damned liberaltastic.

But the characters were so skewed and unrealistic as to be impressive. It's difficult to make characters that are that extreme.


And yet Dick Armey dreamed up the Tea Party and their Merry Band of Patriots, and the world hasn't stopped LULZing since.
 
2012-08-14 06:39:30 PM  

randomjsa: Yes, people grow up and embrace reality. Except the people who read socialist and communist literature, they never do.

Then we elect them president and wonder why people who never grew up make such lousy presidents.

Hopefully we can put an adult back in the WH in November.


Speaking of crowing cocks, I bet Paul Ryan denies Ayn Rand at least two more times.
 
2012-08-14 06:39:34 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Went through college and grad school and never heard of Rand or the related books. Did I miss something, or was it all just derpy?


It's pretty derpy. Bad writing and the purest form of the "I've got mine, fark you" philosophy. If you're in the mood for an author with Objectivist leanings, try The Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind. Much better writing, and he manages to hide his "Individualism GOOOD, collectivism BAAAD" pretty well until the fourth or fifth book.
 
2012-08-14 06:39:36 PM  
"I reject her philosophy," Ryan says firmly. "It's an atheist philosophy. It reduces human interactions down to mere contracts and it is antithetical to my worldview. If somebody is going to try to paste a person's view on epistemology to me, then give me Thomas Aquinas," who believed that man needs divine help in the pursuit of knowledge. "Don't give me Ayn Rand," he says.

Bullshiat. While people's views do evolve over time, he is quite clearly just telling people what they want to hear. Aquinas' ramblings are just as incoherent as Rand, there is no way he picked that up and then somehow concluded that Ayn Rand is wrong. Nor does he even explain how his view changed or even admit that he was once in love with Randian philosophy. Come on, even Romney has more backbone than that, he isn't suddenly claiming he's not Mormon just to score votes.
 
2012-08-14 06:39:48 PM  

Dalrint: Because a man who would cast aside a lifetime of belief for a moment of power is the kind of man I would the trust the future to.

/No, I don't like Rand.
//But he's been her disciple for his entire adult life.
///What will he cast aside next?


His House seat?
 
2012-08-14 06:40:11 PM  
Romney wants to convince everyone he's not the liberal he used to be, and now we have running mate who wants to convince everyone he's not the conservative he used to be.
 
2012-08-14 06:40:56 PM  

randomjsa: Yes, people grow up and embrace reality. Except the people who read socialist and communist literature, they never do.

Then we elect them president and wonder why people who never grew up make such lousy presidents.

Hopefully we can put an adult back in the WH in November.


thesidewedge.files.wordpress.comView Full Size
 
2012-08-14 06:41:27 PM  

coeyagi: Ayn Rand Paul Ryan Gosling will be the name of my first child.

He will be a chain-smoking atheist Catholic optometrist with incredible abs and a shriveled up heartless dick who believes the gold standard and objectivism will be the saviors of humanity.

//so proud already


I thought child abuse was illegal?
 
2012-08-14 06:41:49 PM  
You know who else got rid of their Master in their ambition to become more powerful?

img2-1.timeinc.netView Full Size


Darth Grannystarver is just following in that tradition. Ayn would have been SO proud!
 
2012-08-14 06:42:39 PM  

Confabulat: If you're going to feed me crap, make it entertaining crap. Rand couldn't even do that. I felt like taking a shower to get that book off me when I was done. Horrible characters, horrible philosophy, just a total disaster of a book. I have heard Atlas Shrugged is better but I'd probably prefer just taking an icepick to my eyeballs rather than try.


its not, its just as poorly written. at one point she had a character monologueing, and it was just repeating the same points over and over and over and over. so i decided to flip forward to see where it ended. it was another 40 something pages of a small print paperback.

even outside of the philosphy, its a terribly written book.
 
2012-08-14 06:45:15 PM  

Ghastly: I'd rather read a thousand farking elf songs by J.R.R. Tolkien than one chapter of Ayn Rand's crap.


Actually, Anthem isn't bad. It's pretty standard early 20th century dystopian sci-fi - not on the level of Huxley or Orwell but it has its moments. Everything else? Yeah...don't bother.
 
2012-08-14 06:46:40 PM  

tlchwi02: Confabulat: If you're going to feed me crap, make it entertaining crap. Rand couldn't even do that. I felt like taking a shower to get that book off me when I was done. Horrible characters, horrible philosophy, just a total disaster of a book. I have heard Atlas Shrugged is better but I'd probably prefer just taking an icepick to my eyeballs rather than try.

its not, its just as poorly written. at one point she had a character monologueing, and it was just repeating the same points over and over and over and over. so i decided to flip forward to see where it ended. it was another 40 something pages of a small print paperback.

even outside of the philosphy, its a terribly written book.


oh no doubt Rand needed a very good editor to help her beat that book into shape. I think it could have been a pretty decent story if edited down to something reasonable. OOoooo! how about we rewrite it but go with a dash of George R. R. Martin! bodies EVERYWHERE! and Dagny ends up chanting the names of everyone she wants revenge against every night until she falls asleep....John Galt as the face changing assassin....it could work!
 
2012-08-14 06:47:52 PM  
I read Atlas Shrugged in it's entirety.

Award please.

Seriously, you could edit it down to a dozen pages of socio-political commentary and leave out the endless monotony of head bashing illustrative examples and didactic soliloquies. It's a paiful read. If ever there was a call for only reading the Cliff Notes, this is that book.

And while I think there is *some* limited merit in some parts of objectivism as a socio-economic principle, it is a truly, truly. horrific way to guide your personal life. And watching the 'heroine' hop into the arms of whoever is the most advantageous man at the time makes Twilight's Bella seem like an empowered femenist role model.
 
2012-08-14 06:48:30 PM  

timujin: Neither Rand, nor any Objectivist I've met, truly understood/understand* one of the core tenets of their philosophy, rational self-interest.

.
.
.
*how exactly are you supposed to switch between tenses when talking about both the living and the dead?



There's only one person I can think of that's come close to being a true Objectivist...

cdn.ifanboy.comView Full Size


Seriously, Ditko designed The Question and an earlier character. Mr. A (named after the logical and Objectivist principal of 'A is A'), on the ideas of Objectivism. Regardless of environment or 'justifications', a criminal is still a criminal and must be punished. Those who try to rationalize their crimes are denying the personal responsibility of the choice they made; the Question and Mr. A remind the criminals of this fact.
 
2012-08-14 06:49:25 PM  
The thing I always fail to understand about Rand is how intellectually bankrupt do you have to be to have books like The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged that are in all ways paeans to direct action, collective action and the wildcat strike and try with any seriousness to use them to argue against those very things?

Maybe it's just that Ayn Rand wasn't a very good writer and didn't realize her entire premise was intellectually bankrupt, and no amount of whining and having Galt draw dollar signs in the air with his cock would legitimize it?
 
2012-08-14 06:50:21 PM  
Her grave in Westchester, NY makes a great place to piss if your ever on a road trip.
 
2012-08-14 06:51:00 PM  
"The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand," - Paul Ryan (2005)

"I grew up reading Ayn Rand and it taught me quite a bit about who I am and what my value systems are," he told the group, adding, "It's inspired me so much that it's required reading in my office for all my interns and my staff." - Paul Ryan (2005)

"I give out 'Atlas Shrugged' as Christmas presents." - Paul Ryan (2007)

"What's unique about what's happening today in government, in the world, in America, is that it's as if we're living in an Ayn Rand novel right now," Ryan said in a series of videos posted to Facebook in 2009. "I think Ayn Rand did the best job of anybody to build a moral case of capitalism, and that morality of capitalism is under assault." - Paul Ryan (2009)

"I, like millions of young people in America, read Rand's novels when I was young. I enjoyed them," he said. "...[but] I reject her philosophy." - Paul Ryan (2012)

so.....he was young in 2009, but now he's much more mature?

Dear Congressman Ryan,

THE INTERNET DOES NOT FORGET. Also, fark you, you farking liar.
 
2012-08-14 06:51:04 PM  

RoyFokker'sGhost: There's only one person I can think of that's come close to being a true Objectivist...


Also Rorschach
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Although in Fairness, Moore based Rorschach on the Question anyway, so....
 
2012-08-14 06:51:38 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: I read Atlas Shrugged in it's entirety.

Award please.

Seriously, you could edit it down to a dozen pages of socio-political commentary and leave out the endless monotony of head bashing illustrative examples and didactic soliloquies. It's a paiful read. If ever there was a call for only reading the Cliff Notes, this is that book.

And while I think there is *some* limited merit in some parts of objectivism as a socio-economic principle, it is a truly, truly. horrific way to guide your personal life. And watching the 'heroine' hop into the arms of whoever is the most advantageous man at the time makes Twilight's Bella seem like an empowered femenist role model.


Wow. That's pretty brutal. I had considered reading it. I think I'll find a cliff notes and peruse, instead.
 
2012-08-14 06:51:53 PM  
I read The Fountainhead, only it was called The Sword of Truth and was rapey-er. It was also written by a strange thin woman, but this one had a ponytail and a penchant for tight turtlenecks but the books was also terrible.
 
2012-08-14 06:53:08 PM  
A man chooses. A slave obeys. Good for Ryan. I plan on moving to his undersea land any day now.
 
2012-08-14 06:54:01 PM  
If you're going to be fascinated with fiction writers couldn't they at least be entertaining? I don't agree with much of Heinlein or Pournelle but at least they knew how to carry a story.
 
2012-08-14 06:54:24 PM  

Snapper Carr: Actually, Anthem isn't bad. It's pretty standard early 20th century dystopian sci-fi - not on the level of Huxley or Orwell but it has its moments. Everything else? Yeah...don't bother.


Also, Anthem is a 100-page novella, which is downright palatable compared to thousand-page snorefests like The Fountainshrugged.
 
2012-08-14 06:54:33 PM  

Lando Lincoln: Atlas Shrugged is about this superhuman business guy named John Galt who was super awesome at everything he did and one day he just checked out of society because he was tired of all of the mindless bureaucratic red-tape regulations and union bullshiat that surrounds running a business in a modern society like ours. And people freaked out because without John Galt around, everything was going to shiat. And then other really important business tycoons did the same thing. And then all of the union workers and politicians were really sad and miserable and jobless, because the super awesome job creators weren't around to lead them to prosperity and super awesome living. So the moral of the story is, keep sucking rich guy dick or they'll fark you in the ass.



Is this legitimately what the book is about? I've never read it, or even a summary of it. We need to figure out a way tomake all the bankers and CEO's leave. They've been farking a lot of shiat up.

Employee 1: "Dude the CEO just up and left"
Employee 2: "Well the company was doing badly so he was about to lay some of us off. I guess we can use his multi-million dollar benefits, stocks and paychecks to maintain, build and expand the company."
Employee 1: "But who is going to lead us?"
Employee 2: "We're Americans, we'll figure it out on our own and in a democratic fashion. We're educated, we're not afraid of losing our jobs and we now know that any additional profit from the business will go directly into our checking accounts. I think we'll be okay."
Employee 1: "We should have done this years ago!"
 
2012-08-14 06:55:03 PM  

AYN RAND PAUL!



/Got nothin'
 
2012-08-14 06:55:42 PM  
In reality, are you an Ayn Rand fan if you receive hundreds of thousands of dollars in government subsidy? I suppose it's okay because Ayn Rand herself went on Social Security.
 
2012-08-14 06:55:44 PM  

RoyFokker'sGhost: Seriously, Ditko designed The Question and an earlier character. Mr. A (named after the logical and Objectivist principal of 'A is A'), on the ideas of Objectivism. Regardless of environment or 'justifications', a criminal is still a criminal and must be punished. Those who try to rationalize their crimes are denying the personal responsibility of the choice they made; the Question and Mr. A remind the criminals of this fact.


Mr. A would go around killing people for the mere slightest of infractions. He was more stringent and twice as punitive as Santabot. If you had the tiniest moral imperfection, BAM! into the "Evil" category you go, and the penalty was DEATH!

What these Randian types seem to overlook is "let the punishment fit the crime". Do we simply give the shoplifter a couple months in jail to think about the error of their ways, or do we "EXECUTE ALL THE THINGS!"?

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2012-08-14 06:56:03 PM  

HellRaisingHoosier: Lando Lincoln: Atlas Shrugged is about this superhuman business guy named John Galt who was super awesome at everything he did and one day he just checked out of society because he was tired of all of the mindless bureaucratic red-tape regulations and union bullshiat that surrounds running a business in a modern society like ours. And people freaked out because without John Galt around, everything was going to shiat. And then other really important business tycoons did the same thing. And then all of the union workers and politicians were really sad and miserable and jobless, because the super awesome job creators weren't around to lead them to prosperity and super awesome living. So the moral of the story is, keep sucking rich guy dick or they'll fark you in the ass.


Is this legitimately what the book is about? I've never read it, or even a summary of it. We need to figure out a way tomake all the bankers and CEO's leave. They've been farking a lot of shiat up.

Employee 1: "Dude the CEO just up and left"
Employee 2: "Well the company was doing badly so he was about to lay some of us off. I guess we can use his multi-million dollar benefits, stocks and paychecks to maintain, build and expand the company."
Employee 1: "But who is going to lead us?"
Employee 2: "We're Americans, we'll figure it out on our own and in a democratic fashion. We're educated, we're not afraid of losing our jobs and we now know that any additional profit from the business will go directly into our checking accounts. I think we'll be okay."
Employee 1: "We should have done this years ago!"


This! This this this a thousand times farking this. People need to wake up and understand that the hierarchical corporate model is nothing but a legal pyramid scheme, and it's unnecessary.
 
2012-08-14 06:56:06 PM  
Wow, I actually respected this guy although I disagreed with him. Now he's just a liar or gave up on the very thing that got him into public service. What a joke.
 
2012-08-14 06:56:09 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: RoyFokker'sGhost: There's only one person I can think of that's come close to being a true Objectivist...

Also Rorschach


Although in Fairness, Moore based Rorschach on the Question anyway, so....


Or Mr A who later served as the model for the Question. Ditko was a nut but so are many comic writers.
 
2012-08-14 06:56:16 PM  
I'm pretty sure Neil Peart and obsessive Rush fanboys are the only reason there are people past the age of 19 who like Ayn Rand.
 
2012-08-14 06:57:25 PM  
What happened to that trend of "Going Galt" that was reported to be widespread on Fox News shortly after Obama was elected and was being threatened by all the captains of industry who ran everything from right wing blogs to far right wing blogs. Did anyone make good on that promise, or did they sit back and collect their share of the massively growing corporate profits and continued low tax rate?
 
2012-08-14 06:58:05 PM  

ps69: I read The Fountainhead, only it was called The Sword of Truth and was rapey-er.


You speak truth. I'm reading the series now. At Book 8. Book seven was pretty much one long rapist saga. All of them are an Ode to Rand. In some ways, it's a slightly better articulation of objectivism.

But way too much rape, threats of rape, thoughts of rape, rape as plot device, rape as background filler, rape as character builder, rape as punishment, and then domination and torture as a path to self actualization and empowerment (see the Mord-Sith).

Aside from that, they actually wouldn't be that bad.
 
2012-08-14 06:58:15 PM  

coeyagi: Weaver95: what if all the John Galt wannabes up and left...and society got better for it?

They wouldn't, they could care less about the collectivist needs of society. They would hang around in their hoverrounds biatching about how corporate taxes are high, therefore R&D budgets are low, and therefore he, the dependent inventor who prides himself on his independence, wouldn't have any money to invent.


Society would be better off, but the Randroids in Galt's Gulch would be forced to keep slaves to do the work for them, because they wouldn't do the work themselves and chores gotta get done.
 
2012-08-14 06:58:22 PM  
flipflop jr.
 
2012-08-14 06:58:28 PM  

Fark You I'm Drunk: I'm pretty sure Neil Peart and obsessive Rush fanboys are the only reason there are people past the age of 19 who like Ayn Rand.


Which is really funny because Neil Peart identifies as a left-libertarian now.
 
2012-08-14 06:58:45 PM  
Maybe he should read Dune and form his philosophy around that...

It'd be less derpy too.
 
2012-08-14 06:59:22 PM  

cman: I've got an idea


Doubtful.
 
2012-08-14 06:59:36 PM  

Craptastic: "The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand," - Paul Ryan (2005)


Know what I love about that? Getting into public service means your paycheck depends on taxpayers, which kinda doesn't jive with what Rand advocated.

Fark You I'm Drunk: I'm pretty sure Neil Peart and obsessive Rush fanboys are the only reason there are people past the age of 19 who like Ayn Rand.


Actually Peart got past Rand ages ago.
 
2012-08-14 07:01:09 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Actually Peart got past Rand ages ago.


Too bad it didn't improve his drumming.

/Stewart Copeland
 
2012-08-14 07:01:53 PM  

Confabulat: I read The Fountainhead in my early 20s on a good friend's recommendation, with no real preconceptions of her work or philosophy. It's one of those books that you actually get angry at the author for 1) rambling for pages and pages about utter unrealistic nonsense and pretending it's wisdom; and 2) being a terrible writer on every level while doing that.

If you're going to feed me crap, make it entertaining crap. Rand couldn't even do that. I felt like taking a shower to get that book off me when I was done. Horrible characters, horrible philosophy, just a total disaster of a book. I have heard Atlas Shrugged is better but I'd probably prefer just taking an icepick to my eyeballs rather than try.


But without it, we never would have gotten Bioshock, so, in the end, mostly worth it.
 
2012-08-14 07:02:04 PM  
I read Anthem when I was 16 and afterwards I raped my stuffed animals for hours in an attempt to create a new master race.

I'm better now thanks to the Lithium.
 
2012-08-14 07:02:18 PM  

Fart_Machine: Or Mr A who later served as the model for the Question.


That was mentioned in the post I quoted. Ditko, Mr. A, and The Question came before Moore and Rorschach. Rorschach was a direct derivation of the Question. (In the same way that Dr. Manhattan was Captain Atom, Owlman was Blue Beetle, etc.) Due to licensing issues withthe Charleston characters.
 
2012-08-14 07:03:36 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Although in Fairness, Moore based Rorschach on the Question anyway, so....


A cute little side-story was when The Question first heard about the Rorschach character, identified with him, and tried to emulate him.

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By the end of the story, The Question came to the obvious conclusion...........

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2012-08-14 07:03:37 PM  

Triumph: FTA:"I reject her philosophy," Ryan says firmly. "It's an atheist philosophy. It reduces human interactions down to mere contracts and it is antithetical to my worldview. If somebody is going to try to paste a person's view on epistemology to me, then give me Thomas Aquinas,"

God help us.


So from one of the worst minds of the 20th century to one of the worst minds of the 13th century?
Not an improvement by any measure...
 
2012-08-14 07:04:54 PM  
Rand remarked that the core idea for the book came to her after a 1943 telephone conversation with a friend, who asserted that Rand owed it to her readers to write a nonfiction book about her philosophy. Rand replied, "What if I went on strike? What if all the creative minds of the world went on strike?"

Really?

This is today's GOP go-to? Creative minds?

Please, get Adelson and Trump and Rove and the Koch's and Foster Friese and the rest of those scumsucking, greedy bastards to go on strike. Oh yeah, Mitt, too.

Please!

/Creative? Not really, no.
 
2012-08-14 07:05:05 PM  

Gyrony: So from one of the worst minds of the 20th century to one of the worst minds of the 13th century?


Really? Planting your flag on the mental inferiority of Thomas Aquinas?

Interesting play.
 
2012-08-14 07:05:42 PM  

TV's Vinnie: A cute little side-story was when The Question first heard about the Rorschach character, identified with him, and tried to emulate him.


Cool. Hadn't seen that. Thx.
 
2012-08-14 07:07:49 PM  
what if john galt was paul ryans grandfather?
 
2012-08-14 07:09:52 PM  

RoyFokker'sGhost: timujin: Neither Rand, nor any Objectivist I've met, truly understood/understand* one of the core tenets of their philosophy, rational self-interest.

.
.
.
*how exactly are you supposed to switch between tenses when talking about both the living and the dead?


There's only one person I can think of that's come close to being a true Objectivist...

[cdn.ifanboy.com image 850x478]

Seriously, Ditko designed The Question and an earlier character. Mr. A (named after the logical and Objectivist principal of 'A is A'), on the ideas of Objectivism. Regardless of environment or 'justifications', a criminal is still a criminal and must be punished. Those who try to rationalize their crimes are denying the personal responsibility of the choice they made; the Question and Mr. A remind the criminals of this fact.


But aren't they themselves criminals, for being vigilantes?

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: But without it, we never would have gotten Bioshock, so, in the end, mostly worth it.


Yes you would have. It was called System Shock 2. It was also better.
/No seriously, Bioshock is System Shock 2 Underwater and Watered Down.
 
2012-08-14 07:11:41 PM  
How convenient...
 
2012-08-14 07:12:59 PM  

Weaver95: what if all the John Galt wannabes up and left...and society got better for it?


There was that SeaSteading idea that was being floated around recently. Maybe the guys who came up with the idea played Bioshock and realized the same would happen to their own little Raptures (plasmids, ADAM, etc. not withstanding). So they decided to ruin parts of Honduras instead.
 
2012-08-14 07:14:13 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Fark You I'm Drunk: I'm pretty sure Neil Peart and obsessive Rush fanboys are the only reason there are people past the age of 19 who like Ayn Rand.

Actually Peart got past Rand ages ago.


Peart did, but a lot of his fans didn't. 2112/Anthem/Closer to the Heart is based on Rand, therefore Ayn Rand is the greatest thing ever.
 
2012-08-14 07:14:43 PM  
Maybe we could get Ryan and Romney to go Galt? I promise I won't look for them.
 
2012-08-14 07:16:08 PM  
Who is Paul Ryan???
 
2012-08-14 07:17:36 PM  
Anthem is a hacktacular ripoff of Yevgeny Zamyatin's We. That is all.
 
2012-08-14 07:18:11 PM  

Mercutio74: Who is Paul Ryan???


A collection of several trillion cells eager to do the US Chamber of Commerce's bidding. Some f*cking objectivist he turned out to be.
 
2012-08-14 07:18:30 PM  

gittlebass: what if john galt was paul ryans grandfather?


Wait now, who is John Galt? The guy with the Big Blue Ox?

No, that was some other mythical dude.

/Paul something
 
2012-08-14 07:18:37 PM  
You're not a 19 year old who's gone to college.
You're a 42 year old who is apparently keen on being VP.

Bull. Shiat.
 
2012-08-14 07:19:29 PM  
Is this the thread where people who have never read a book, much less understand the basic ideas contained therein, bash it because that's what all the cool libtard trolls do?

*reads first 50 posts*

Yep, meets the Fark formula.

Carry on.
 
2012-08-14 07:20:05 PM  

Fano: A man chooses. A slave obeys. Good for Ryan. I plan on moving to his undersea land any day now.


You should bring your little sister.
 
2012-08-14 07:23:04 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Gyrony: So from one of the worst minds of the 20th century to one of the worst minds of the 13th century?

Really? Planting your flag on the mental inferiority of Thomas Aquinas?

Interesting play.


not the mental inferiority, the ideological inferiority.
 
2012-08-14 07:23:51 PM  

Silly Jesus: Is this the thread where people who have never read a book, much less understand the basic ideas contained therein, bash it because that's what all the cool libtard trolls do?


Apparently this is the thread for whiny butthurt Randroids.
 
2012-08-14 07:24:53 PM  

Silly Jesus: Is this the thread where people who have never read a book, much less understand the basic ideas contained therein, bash it because that's what all the cool libtard trolls do?

*reads first 50 posts*

Yep, meets the Fark formula.

Carry on.


Is this the thread where some Randian shows up and issues a blank dismissal of criticism by simply assuming none of the critics have ever read Rand (because if they did, they would know what a great intellectual and writer she was)?

Yep, carry on
 
2012-08-14 07:24:57 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Getting into public service means your paycheck depends on taxpayers, which kinda doesn't jive with what Rand advocated.


Doesn't she spend about 300 pages of The Fountainhead making fun of Catherine Halsey for believing in the value of public service?
 
2012-08-14 07:26:04 PM  

Silly Jesus: Is this the thread where people who have never read a book, much less understand the basic ideas contained therein, bash it because that's what all the cool libtard trolls do?

*reads first 50 posts*

Yep, meets the Fark formula.

Carry on.


Yes, meet the Randroid formula.

"Well,you obviously haven't read it, because if you had then you'd understand it and then you'd agree with it."

"Yeah...I've read it, it's garbage."

"Well, obviously you're not intelligent enough to understand it, because if you were then you'd agree with it."
 
2012-08-14 07:26:57 PM  

Silly Jesus: Is this the thread where people who have never read a book, much less understand the basic ideas contained therein, bash it because that's what all the cool libtard trolls do?

*reads first 50 posts*

Yep, meets the Fark formula.

Carry on


Then you didn't read the first 50 posts. So you're either lying or unable to recognize relity because it doesn't match up to your expectation of how life is supposed to work.

Yep, meets the "Silly Jesus" formula.

Fark off unless you have something substantive to add.
 
2012-08-14 07:28:52 PM  
M

Huggermugger: Silly Jesus: Is this the thread where people who have never read a book, much less understand the basic ideas contained therein, bash it because that's what all the cool libtard trolls do?

*reads first 50 posts*

Yep, meets the Fark formula.

Carry on.

Yes, meet the Randroid formula.

"Well,you obviously haven't read it, because if you had then you'd understand it and then you'd agree with it."

"Yeah...I've read it, it's garbage."

"Well, obviously you're not intelligent enough to understand it, because if you were then you'd agree with it."


Sounds like my dad. He's 65. It's one of the reasons I don't go visit very often. (Mom thinks she's Dr. Laura. That's actually worse.)
 
2012-08-14 07:29:13 PM  
This another go-no where proposition. The only people in a red state like mine who know anything about Ayn Rand are the libertarians and liberals. Together they make up a few neighborhoods in Omaha. Everyone else is a believer in 0bama the time traveling secrit muslin usurper, who must be stopped at all costs.
 
2012-08-14 07:29:21 PM  
If she wanted to write a book about her philosophy, she should have done that and not cloaked it in fictional characters and idealistic situations.
 
2012-08-14 07:29:59 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Silly Jesus: Is this the thread where people who have never read a book, much less understand the basic ideas contained therein, bash it because that's what all the cool libtard trolls do?

*reads first 50 posts*

Yep, meets the Fark formula.

Carry on.

Is this the thread where some Randian shows up and issues a blank dismissal of criticism by simply assuming none of the critics have ever read Rand (because if they did, they would know what a great intellectual and writer she was)?

Yep, carry on


Yes, because a great deal of the comments don't begin with "I've never read or heard of Rand, but I think she's an idiot and her ideas are BS."
 
2012-08-14 07:30:28 PM  

meat0918: If she wanted to write a book about her philosophy, she should have done that and not cloaked it in fictional characters and idealistic situations.


But that would have only made it more ridiculous and impossible to take seriously.
 
2012-08-14 07:31:38 PM  
It's so important that we go back to our roots to look at Ayn Rand's vision, her writings, to see what our girding, under-grounding [sic] principles are. I always go back to, you know, Francisco d'Anconia's speech (at Bill Taggart's wedding) on money when I think about monetary policy.

Wow, it's been a long time since I read Rand's novels so I forgot all about Francisco d'Anconia. I've got to ask, what kind of farking bunghole gives a speech about money at a wedding? She's writing a fantasy world in which she can make the heroes perfect in every way and the villians as terrible as she wants. So she makes one of the heroes give a windbag speech at someone's wedding? Yeah, everyone has that one uncle who farks things up during the toast but usually his drunk ass is quickly pulled off stage by his wife. Certainly not the kind of thing you'd celebrate as being heroic.
 
2012-08-14 07:32:09 PM  

Huggermugger: Silly Jesus: Is this the thread where people who have never read a book, much less understand the basic ideas contained therein, bash it because that's what all the cool libtard trolls do?

*reads first 50 posts*

Yep, meets the Fark formula.

Carry on.

Yes, meet the Randroid formula.

"Well,you obviously haven't read it, because if you had then you'd understand it and then you'd agree with it."

"Yeah...I've read it, it's garbage."

"Well, obviously you're not intelligent enough to understand it, because if you were then you'd agree with it."


Not what I was saying.

I was simply pointing out that most people who hate it haven't read it. I have respect for those that have read it and don't agree with it...I was only speaking to those that say "I haven't even heard of her, but libs seem to hate her, so I do too, derp."

/I've read most of her stuff. I like it in theory, but admit that it wouldn't work in reality. Much like those that like communism in theory but acknowledge that it's unworkable in the real world.
 
2012-08-14 07:32:34 PM  

Silly Jesus: Yes, because a great deal of the comments don't begin with "I've never read or heard of Rand, but I think she's an idiot and her ideas are BS."


I didn't have to read Mein Kampf, the Turner Diaries, or the Unibomber Manifesto either.
 
2012-08-14 07:33:00 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Silly Jesus: Yes, because a great deal of the comments don't begin with "I've never read or heard of Rand, but I think she's an idiot and her ideas are BS."

I didn't have to read Mein Kampf, the Turner Diaries, or the Unibomber Manifesto either.


Why don't you have an open mind, LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIB?
 
2012-08-14 07:33:46 PM  

timujin: Silly Jesus: Is this the thread where people who have never read a book, much less understand the basic ideas contained therein, bash it because that's what all the cool libtard trolls do?

*reads first 50 posts*

Yep, meets the Fark formula.

Carry on

Then you didn't read the first 50 posts. So you're either lying or unable to recognize relity because it doesn't match up to your expectation of how life is supposed to work.

Yep, meets the "Silly Jesus" formula.

Fark off unless you have something substantive to add.


damnlol.comView Full Size
 
2012-08-14 07:34:45 PM  

verbaltoxin: This another go-no where proposition. The only people in a red state like mine who know anything about Ayn Rand are the libertarians and liberals. Together they make up a few neighborhoods in Omaha. Everyone else is a believer in 0bama the time traveling secrit muslin usurper, who must be stopped at all costs.


It wasn't to appease anyone, but a preemptive attempt to deflect any possible negative ads that stem from Rand being an atheist.

Being associated with an atheist is about the worst thing a politician can do.

It's not going to help, because he just fed the flip flop narrative.
 
2012-08-14 07:35:04 PM  

Zagloba: Anthem is a hacktacular ripoff of Yevgeny Zamyatin's We. That is all.


You're right, but Anthem remains remarkable because it a) is a readable length, and b) completely conveys the entirety of Rand's philosophical underpinnings.

With Atlas and Fountainhead, you've gotta wonder if she was getting paid by the word. Also, the fact that a short novella can communicate the entirety of Rand's philosophical depth tells you all you need to know about it.

I do find it interesting to see Ryan talk about Aquinas- Rand and Aquinas both have something in common: neither one of them understood Aristotle worth a damn.
 
2012-08-14 07:35:31 PM  

HellRaisingHoosier: Is this legitimately what the book is about? I've never read it, or even a summary of it. We need to figure out a way to make all the bankers and CEO's leave. They've been farking a lot of shiat up.


Here's a much more thorough and undoubtedly accurate summary of it. Even the summary is extremely tedious. Ayn Rand sucked as a writer.

SparkNotes: Atlas Shrugged
 
2012-08-14 07:36:06 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Silly Jesus: Yes, because a great deal of the comments don't begin with "I've never read or heard of Rand, but I think she's an idiot and her ideas are BS."

I didn't have to read Mein Kampf, the Turner Diaries, or the Unibomber Manifesto either.


I read the first two so that I could discuss them intelligently. I guess that standard doesn't hold true for most people.
 
2012-08-14 07:36:21 PM  

Silly Jesus: Lionel Mandrake: Silly Jesus: Is this the thread where people who have never read a book, much less understand the basic ideas contained therein, bash it because that's what all the cool libtard trolls do?

*reads first 50 posts*

Yep, meets the Fark formula.

Carry on.

Is this the thread where some Randian shows up and issues a blank dismissal of criticism by simply assuming none of the critics have ever read Rand (because if they did, they would know what a great intellectual and writer she was)?

Yep, carry on

Yes, because a great deal of the comments don't begin with "I've never read or heard of Rand, but I think she's an idiot and her ideas are BS."


Citation? Because I don't see that. Unless you consider 4 out of 50 to be a "great deal of the comments." And those were only, "I haven't read it," no "she's an idiot and her ideas are BS." Lying is becoming second nature to you, it seems.
 
2012-08-14 07:37:14 PM  
So he finally figured out she was an atheist?
 
2012-08-14 07:38:14 PM  
 
2012-08-14 07:39:56 PM  

Silly Jesus: I read the first two so that I could discuss them intelligently.


Discussing Mein Kampf and the Turner Diaries 'intelligently'.

hahahaohwow.jpg
 
2012-08-14 07:40:06 PM  

Silly Jesus: Yes, because a great deal of the comments don't begin with "I've never read or heard of Rand, but I think she's an idiot and her ideas are BS."


Her heroes are sociopaths.
 
2012-08-14 07:40:54 PM  

Gimmick: The plot of Atlas Shrugged in 12 seconds.


socialeyezer.comView Full Size
 
2012-08-14 07:41:03 PM  

Gyrony: Triumph: FTA:"I reject her philosophy," Ryan says firmly. "It's an atheist philosophy. It reduces human interactions down to mere contracts and it is antithetical to my worldview. If somebody is going to try to paste a person's view on epistemology to me, then give me Thomas Aquinas,"

God help us.

So from one of the worst minds of the 20th century to one of the worst minds of the 13th century?
Not an improvement by any measure...


Worst minds of the century, eh? Not really in either case. When I wrote "God help us," I was making a joke about what Aquinas believed.
 
2012-08-14 07:41:15 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Silly Jesus: I read the first two so that I could discuss them intelligently.

Discussing Mein Kampf and the Turner Diaries 'intelligently'.

hahahaohwow.jpg


How to discuss those books intelligently:

"They're psychotic bullshiat written by evil pieces of human waste. The end. Go read something worth your time."
 
2012-08-14 07:42:55 PM  

Lando Lincoln: Here's a much more thorough and undoubtedly accurate summary of it. Even the summary is extremely tedious. Ayn Rand sucked as a writer


I actually liked some of her essays...not in full but she'shiat and miss on her philosophy. The misses are dreadful, but the hits are interesting and occasionally logically sound.
 
2012-08-14 07:44:47 PM  

timujin: Silly Jesus: Lionel Mandrake: Silly Jesus: Is this the thread where people who have never read a book, much less understand the basic ideas contained therein, bash it because that's what all the cool libtard trolls do?

*reads first 50 posts*

Yep, meets the Fark formula.

Carry on.

Is this the thread where some Randian shows up and issues a blank dismissal of criticism by simply assuming none of the critics have ever read Rand (because if they did, they would know what a great intellectual and writer she was)?

Yep, carry on

Yes, because a great deal of the comments don't begin with "I've never read or heard of Rand, but I think she's an idiot and her ideas are BS."

Citation? Because I don't see that. Unless you consider 4 out of 50 to be a "great deal of the comments." And those were only, "I haven't read it," no "she's an idiot and her ideas are BS." Lying is becoming second nature to you, it seems.


You're right. Everyone is having a reasoned discussion concerning the merit of specific aspects of her philosophy and not being reactionary drones with knee-jerk reactions to the very mention of the horrible Rand.
 
2012-08-14 07:44:48 PM  
I'm anxiously awaiting another Limbaugh meltdown about Bioshock being developed by libs and intentionally including a character named "Ryan" creating a Randian dystopia in order to influence the 2012 election, like the rant about Bain/Bane Batman movie thing.
 
2012-08-14 07:44:56 PM  

MayoSlather: Lando Lincoln: Here's a much more thorough and undoubtedly accurate summary of it. Even the summary is extremely tedious. Ayn Rand sucked as a writer

I actually liked some of her essays...not in full but she'shiat and miss but she'shiat and miss on her philosophy. The misses are dreadful, but the hits are interesting and occasionally logically sound.


oops
 
2012-08-14 07:45:24 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: "They're psychotic bullshiat written by evil pieces of human waste. The end. Go read something worth your time."


"You're a poor downtrodden white Christian male? Don't worry, nothing is ever your fault! All the reward you rightfully deserve for all that hard work you did, it all went to the Jews. Or the blacks and the Jews. Or the leeches who may or may also not be Jewish."
 
2012-08-14 07:46:26 PM  

MayoSlather: MayoSlather: Lando Lincoln: Here's a much more thorough and undoubtedly accurate summary of it. Even the summary is extremely tedious. Ayn Rand sucked as a writer

I actually liked some of her essays...not in full but she'shiat and miss but she'shiat and miss on her philosophy. The misses are dreadful, but the hits are interesting and occasionally logically sound.

oops


I guess fark autocorrect insists I'm wrong.
 
2012-08-14 07:46:31 PM  

Morpher59: I'm anxiously awaiting another Limbaugh meltdown about Bioshock being developed by libs and intentionally including a character named "Ryan" creating a Randian dystopia in order to influence the 2012 election, like the rant about Bain/Bane Batman movie thing.


You're presuming he's hip enough to do that.
 
2012-08-14 07:47:12 PM  
I can almost always tell a modern objectivist writer by the way they write children. For some reason, children in objectivist books don't just talk like full-grown adults, but they talk like fully-actualized well-rounded intelligent adults who are capable of unpacking and analyzing all their inner demons and assessing a potential strategy for dealing with them.

The trouble with talking to objectivists is that they go from normal to crazy faster than any other dogmatics. They're so convinced that they think and communicate with utter cubic logic in all things that they believe that the mere fact that the logic exists must mean that it's correct. In other words, they believe they're correct because they believe they're correct - the fact that they came up with a conclusion means that the conclusion must be accurate.

At the same time, I've met plenty of objectivists, mostly online, whose brains are less organized than a sack of rabid raccoons; their logic comes from other planets and their conclusions fit however they happen to feel at the time. They're also past masters at doing the math backwards; they have a conclusion so they invent a logic that fits it. Then they get axe-throwing defensive when you call them on it.

One objectivist, that I did get to meet personally, flew into a rage when I told him that it wasn't actually possible to talk to bears and have them understand you. I have no idea what was driving his brain. Another lives in a hoarder house, collects guns, and receives government assistance. He's pretty special. And these people go into these rage spirals whenever you say that there might be flaws in their thinking or blind spots in their behavior.

Deep down, I think objectivists know that they can't really run their own lives, but don't you dare bust that illusion. Everything they are depends upon convincing themselves that they're better than everyone else.
 
2012-08-14 07:47:23 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Silly Jesus: I read the first two so that I could discuss them intelligently.

Discussing Mein Kampf and the Turner Diaries 'intelligently'.

hahahaohwow.jpg


Yes. Believe it or not the only discussion about Mein Kampf isn't "Hitler bad", "I agree", "OK, next book."

If that's all that you can muster though, I understand.
 
2012-08-14 07:47:36 PM  

FlashHarry: "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

-- Paul Krugman


That's not Paul Krugman's btw.

It belongs to some guy named John Rogers
 
2012-08-14 07:47:46 PM  

MayoSlather: MayoSlather: Lando Lincoln: Here's a much more thorough and undoubtedly accurate summary of it. Even the summary is extremely tedious. Ayn Rand sucked as a writer

I actually liked some of her essays...not in full but she'shiat and miss but she'shiat and miss on her philosophy. The misses are dreadful, but the hits are interesting and occasionally logically sound.

oops


2x COMBO FILTERPWN!
 
2012-08-14 07:48:11 PM  
I read the first chapter of Atlas.
Then I tossed it to the curb and read Animal Farm. A much better book.

/Ryan's an asshat.
 
2012-08-14 07:48:46 PM  

MayoSlather: I guess fark autocorrect insists I'm wrong.


You're getting tripped by the filter. She is a hit or a miss won't trigger it. Basically it thinks you are trying to type the word sh*t.
 
2012-08-14 07:49:37 PM  

HeartBurnKid: 2x COMBO FILTERPWN!


finish him
 
2012-08-14 07:49:45 PM  

HeartBurnKid: MayoSlather: MayoSlather: Lando Lincoln: Here's a much more thorough and undoubtedly accurate summary of it. Even the summary is extremely tedious. Ayn Rand sucked as a writer

I actually liked some of her essays...not in full but she'shiat and miss but she'shiat and miss on her philosophy. The misses are dreadful, but the hits are interesting and occasionally logically sound.

oops

2x COMBO FILTERPWN!



I already addressed the double fail...but thanks for bringing it up again.
 
2012-08-14 07:50:06 PM  

Silly Jesus: If that's all that you can muster though, I understand.


Spoken like a true Randian.
 
2012-08-14 07:50:36 PM  

timujin: Neither Rand, nor any Objectivist I've met, truly understood/understand* one of the core tenets of their philosophy, rational self-interest.
.
*how exactly are you supposed to switch between tenses when talking about both the living and the dead?


*Unless you met the living in the future, you farking wizard, or are currently meeting with them in the present--which you are not, because "I've met"--the past should be just fine.
 
2012-08-14 07:50:53 PM  

Silly Jesus: Yes. Believe it or not the only discussion about Mein Kampf isn't "Hitler bad", "I agree", "OK, next book."


I have 10 million plus reasons to know 'Hitler bad'. I don't need a book full of his rationalizing to know why.

If that's all that you can muster though, I understand.

Well aren't you the special snowflake. Next time don't overcook my fries or I'm telling your manager.
 
2012-08-14 07:51:18 PM  

Silly Jesus: the merit of specific aspects of her philosophy


Her heroes are sociopaths.
 
2012-08-14 07:51:24 PM  

peasandcarrots: They're so convinced that they think and communicate with utter cubic logic in all things that they believe that the mere fact that the logic exists must mean that it's correct.


EARTH HAS 4 CORNER
SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY
RAND CUBE
WITHIN SINGLE ROTATION.
 
2012-08-14 07:52:19 PM  

Without Fail: Silly Jesus: Yes, because a great deal of the comments don't begin with "I've never read or heard of Rand, but I think she's an idiot and her ideas are BS."

Her heroes are sociopaths.


Hey, that's better than "Rand bad."

How are they sociopaths? I assume you are talking about Galt and Dagny etc? I don't think that they are sociopaths at all. They very much respect those around them that aren't unfairly / unjustly asking / demanding something from them.
 
2012-08-14 07:52:32 PM  

Silly Jesus: Yes. Believe it or not the only discussion about Mein Kampf isn't "Hitler bad", "I agree", "OK, next book."


"Hey, I think that Hitler guy was on to something"?
 
2012-08-14 07:53:05 PM  

Lando Lincoln: Spoken like a true Randian.


If he wasn't held down by the parasites (and possibly the Jews) he would be able to show just how superior he truly is to all of us.
 
2012-08-14 07:53:18 PM  

Gimmick: The plot of Atlas Shrugged in 12 seconds.


HA! That's exactly like the moochers.
 
2012-08-14 07:53:23 PM  

Silly Jesus: Without Fail: Silly Jesus: Yes, because a great deal of the comments don't begin with "I've never read or heard of Rand, but I think she's an idiot and her ideas are BS."

Her heroes are sociopaths.

Hey, that's better than "Rand bad."

How are they sociopaths? I assume you are talking about Galt and Dagny etc? I don't think that they are sociopaths at all. They very much respect those around them that aren't unfairly / unjustly asking / demanding something from them.


Another thing you don't understand: The meaning of the term "sociopath".
 
2012-08-14 07:57:23 PM  

Lando Lincoln: Silly Jesus: If that's all that you can muster though, I understand.

Spoken like a true Randian.


How so, grasshoppa?
 
2012-08-14 07:58:13 PM  

Ghastly: I'd rather read a thousand farking elf songs by J.R.R. Tolkien than one chapter of Ayn Rand's crap.


Wish granted! Kind of
Passing of the Elves (10 hours)
 
2012-08-14 07:58:33 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Silly Jesus: Yes. Believe it or not the only discussion about Mein Kampf isn't "Hitler bad", "I agree", "OK, next book."

I have 10 million plus reasons to know 'Hitler bad'. I don't need a book full of his rationalizing to know why.

If that's all that you can muster though, I understand.

Well aren't you the special snowflake. Next time don't overcook my fries or I'm telling your manager.


Your intellectual curiosity is astounding.

/Ding! Fries are done!
 
2012-08-14 07:59:13 PM  

Silly Jesus: Lando Lincoln: Silly Jesus: If that's all that you can muster though, I understand.

Spoken like a true Randian.

How so, grasshoppa?


Did you vote for Bush in 2000?
 
2012-08-14 07:59:41 PM  
Seriously?

This long and no one (that I am not ignoring) posted it?

1.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size
 
2012-08-14 07:59:52 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: Silly Jesus: Without Fail: Silly Jesus: Yes, because a great deal of the comments don't begin with "I've never read or heard of Rand, but I think she's an idiot and her ideas are BS."

Her heroes are sociopaths.

Hey, that's better than "Rand bad."

How are they sociopaths? I assume you are talking about Galt and Dagny etc? I don't think that they are sociopaths at all. They very much respect those around them that aren't unfairly / unjustly asking / demanding something from them.

Another thing you don't understand: The meaning of the term "sociopath".


so·ci·o·path/ˈsōsēōˌpaTH/
Noun:
A person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.
 
2012-08-14 08:00:15 PM  
What, Ayn Rand thread and no one posts the classic sequel?

Allow me:
1.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size
 
2012-08-14 08:00:25 PM  
FTA:"I reject her philosophy," Ryan says firmly. "It's an atheist philosophy. It reduces human interactions down to mere contracts and it is antithetical to my worldview. If somebody is going to try to paste a person's view on epistemology to me, then give me Thomas Aquinas,"

Funny how he
1) Just came to this realization "just now"
2) It is now derpy to like and also denounce Ayn Rand......Double yew, tee, eff
 
2012-08-14 08:01:06 PM  

Silly Jesus: Your intellectual curiosity is astounding.


Some of us have better pursuits for our intellectual curiosity than the rationalization of resentment.
 
2012-08-14 08:01:07 PM  

Curse of the Goth Kids: Silly Jesus: Lando Lincoln: Silly Jesus: If that's all that you can muster though, I understand.

Spoken like a true Randian.

How so, grasshoppa?

Did you vote for Bush in 2000?


Nope. Libertarian. If I was forced to vote for one of the two main parties I'd usually vote Democrat...but my state is decidedly red so I don't bother.
 
2012-08-14 08:02:10 PM  

Silly Jesus: Curse of the Goth Kids: Silly Jesus: Lando Lincoln: Silly Jesus: If that's all that you can muster though, I understand.

Spoken like a true Randian.

How so, grasshoppa?

Did you vote for Bush in 2000?

Nope. Libertarian. If I was forced to vote for one of the two main parties I'd usually vote Democrat...but my state is decidedly red so I don't bother.


You're a little old to be believing in Leprechauns, aren't you?
 
2012-08-14 08:02:35 PM  

Silly Jesus: How are they sociopaths? I assume you are talking about Galt and Dagny etc? I don't think that they are sociopaths at all. They very much respect those around them that aren't unfairly / unjustly asking / demanding something from them.


Her characters are sociopaths, by definition.

Her personal hero William Edward Hickman was in fact a sociopathic child murderer.

I thought you knew something about her?
 
2012-08-14 08:02:54 PM  

idsfa: Seriously?

This long and no one (that I am not ignoring) posted it?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 790x416]


Well, it IS important enough to get posted twice.
 
2012-08-14 08:04:14 PM  

Confabulat: I read The Fountainhead in my early 20s on a good friend's recommendation, with no real preconceptions of her work or philosophy. It's one of those books that you actually get angry at the author for 1) rambling for pages and pages about utter unrealistic nonsense and pretending it's wisdom; and 2) being a terrible writer on every level while doing that.

If you're going to feed me crap, make it entertaining crap. Rand couldn't even do that. I felt like taking a shower to get that book off me when I was done. Horrible characters, horrible philosophy, just a total disaster of a book. I have heard Atlas Shrugged is better but I'd probably prefer just taking an icepick to my eyeballs rather than try.


I liked Anthem, but only read it once don't know how it would do with a second reading. The Fountainhead I couldn't finish, made it less than halfway through.

I think Anthem might have been based on someone else's book.
 
2012-08-14 08:08:32 PM  

Jaws_Victim: What, Ayn Rand thread and no one posts the classic sequel?

Allow me:
[1.bp.blogspot.com image 790x416]


idsfa: Seriously?

This long and no one (that I am not ignoring) posted it?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 790x416]


That would be clever, if the person who drew it had read the book. One of her heroes, Hugh Akston, leaves his position as a philosopher and works at a roadside diner. He could probably muster up a sandwich. There are plenty of other examples of her heroes accomplishing menial tasks.

This is the greater point that I was getting at up thread. Everyone thinks that they can just not read the book and form a reasoned opinion on her philosophy based on silly cartoons which would seem absurd to anyone who had actually read the damn thing.

Stupid cartoon is stupid.
 
2012-08-14 08:08:48 PM  

Silly Jesus: A Dark Evil Omen: Silly Jesus: Without Fail: Silly Jesus: Yes, because a great deal of the comments don't begin with "I've never read or heard of Rand, but I think she's an idiot and her ideas are BS."

Her heroes are sociopaths.

Hey, that's better than "Rand bad."

How are they sociopaths? I assume you are talking about Galt and Dagny etc? I don't think that they are sociopaths at all. They very much respect those around them that aren't unfairly / unjustly asking / demanding something from them.

Another thing you don't understand: The meaning of the term "sociopath".

so·ci·o·path/ˈsōsēōˌpaTH/
Noun:
A person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.


Hmm. Dictionary. Interesting choice. So, just so we're clear, we need to read hundreds of pages of bad sci-fi to understand a sophomoric personal philosophy that can be adequately summed up in a few sentences, but a few pages in the ICD or DSM is too much to understand a fairly prevalent real personality complex? Do I have that completely right?
 
2012-08-14 08:09:09 PM  
I can't vote for the R anyway since i found out that romney murdered that poor dude's wife.
 
2012-08-14 08:09:37 PM  

randomjsa: Yes, people grow up and embrace reality. Except the people who read socialist and communist literature, they never do.

Then we elect them president and wonder why people who never grew up make such lousy presidents.

Hopefully we can put an adult back in the WH in November.


Please tell me what Communist and or Socialist Literature is?

Anyone?
 
2012-08-14 08:09:52 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Silly Jesus: Your intellectual curiosity is astounding.

Some of us have better pursuits for our intellectual curiosity than the rationalization of resentment.


So you are not in the least curious how the minds of those that you disagree with work? That must get very boring.
 
2012-08-14 08:10:29 PM  

Curse of the Goth Kids: Silly Jesus: Curse of the Goth Kids: Silly Jesus: Lando Lincoln: Silly Jesus: If that's all that you can muster though, I understand.

Spoken like a true Randian.

How so, grasshoppa?

Did you vote for Bush in 2000?

Nope. Libertarian. If I was forced to vote for one of the two main parties I'd usually vote Democrat...but my state is decidedly red so I don't bother.

You're a little old to be believing in Leprechauns, aren't you?


Que?
 
2012-08-14 08:11:26 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Ghastly: In that regard she is very like Tolkien (nobody reads the farking elf songs).

YOU LIE. Tolkien is scintillating reading. He was a storyteller's storyteller.

Frodo set down the ring and sank to the earth in repose. From his backpack, Sam produced a flask of water and some Elven Lembas, and from his waistpouch a small, sealed tin. The tin had been crafted by the tinsmith L'Ortheala'i of the second line of Durenorathala during the Second Age, on the High Night of Pancrea when the Solenil were running in the crystal water from high Holitla and the Darklmunnerors lay yet beneath the graven stones of their forebears who had not yet descended from the lofty heights of Arameir to craft their stony halls. Inside the tin lay a single pat of Glumeliian Butter, which had not been seen in the Shire since the first days of the last days of Sam's mother's father, known to some as his grandfather, who had traveled the Windy Trail beneath the Solemn Mist of the Mount of Holitakea to beseech the Caravan Master of Noriktha, himself of the second line of Durenorathala, to attend the upcoming Festival Harvest of Firhtyta and sell some butter there. Which Sam's mother's father/Grandfather did buy and save in the shallows of the cool Hoytr's water, and which Sam had dutifully carried with him from the moment of their departure.

With the butter knife that had had been crafted by his second cousin Hal, who had been borne during the Third Coming of the Second Rising of the Fourth Turning of the Seventh House and had traveled to Genedain to learn the craft of butter knife forging from the Elven smith Lorelairlahdsthgfksdghjk, son of Ka, Sam spread a pat of Glumeliian Butter on the Lembas and handed the small morsel to Frodo.

"Mmm," Frodo said. "This is some very tasty butter."


You beautiful bastard. I almost fell out of my chair there.
 
2012-08-14 08:13:06 PM  

Silly Jesus: One of her heroes, Hugh Akston, leaves his position as a philosopher and works at a roadside diner. He could probably muster up a sandwich.


Yeah, provided the Sysco truck shows up on time.
 
2012-08-14 08:14:31 PM  

spongeboob: Please tell me what Communist and or Socialist Literature is?


Anything that talks about the concerns of the poor, or how society should work together to care for the least fortunate. So, y'know, the Gospels.
 
2012-08-14 08:15:13 PM  

Loucifer: This is why Romney loves Ryan. Like Mitt, Paul can immediately abandon long held beliefs as soon as it becomes convenient. You don't find someone as breath takingly shallow as that every day. Mitt is extremely impressed.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
2012-08-14 08:15:19 PM  

Without Fail: Silly Jesus: How are they sociopaths? I assume you are talking about Galt and Dagny etc? I don't think that they are sociopaths at all. They very much respect those around them that aren't unfairly / unjustly asking / demanding something from them.

Her characters are sociopaths, by definition.

The media definition or the DSM IV definition? I may agree with you on the media's popular definition, but it doesn't fit the actual diagnostic criteria very well at all.

Her personal hero William Edward Hickman was in fact a sociopathic child murderer.

And this impacts the philosophy of Atlas Shrugged how?

I thought you knew something about her?

I do. I just didn't choose to focus on irrelevant side-shows that people lacking an argument resort to.

 
2012-08-14 08:15:55 PM  
More than anything else the fascist-apologist Ayn Rand hated all religions, and the Catholic Church in particular.

She's turning her grave that the mormoonie and the altar boy have teamed up to restore Amerika, and force feed us their vapid religiosly derived "values".
 
2012-08-14 08:15:59 PM  

sammyk: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Went through college and grad school and never heard of Rand or the related books. Did I miss something, or was it all just derpy?

The first I ever heard of it was from Machelle Malkin. I didn't bother looking into it any further. The cult like following it gets reminds me of The Turner Diaries.


So is this a troll? I say this because you sound like a Christian fundamentalist talking about why he won't read the Qur'an.
 
2012-08-14 08:17:07 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: Silly Jesus: A Dark Evil Omen: Silly Jesus: Without Fail: Silly Jesus: Yes, because a great deal of the comments don't begin with "I've never read or heard of Rand, but I think she's an idiot and her ideas are BS."

Her heroes are sociopaths.

Hey, that's better than "Rand bad."

How are they sociopaths? I assume you are talking about Galt and Dagny etc? I don't think that they are sociopaths at all. They very much respect those around them that aren't unfairly / unjustly asking / demanding something from them.

Another thing you don't understand: The meaning of the term "sociopath".

so·ci·o·path/ˈsōsēōˌpaTH/
Noun:
A person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.

Hmm. Dictionary. Interesting choice. So, just so we're clear, we need to read hundreds of pages of bad sci-fi to understand a sophomoric personal philosophy that can be adequately summed up in a few sentences, but a few pages in the ICD or DSM is too much to understand a fairly prevalent real personality complex? Do I have that completely right?


Huh? I was posting the "popular" definition of sociopath that he was using.

The characters don't fit the DSM IV criteria very well at all.
 
2012-08-14 08:18:12 PM  
Oh great a randian with a lot of free time on his hands. This thread should be fun.
 
2012-08-14 08:18:44 PM  

spongeboob: randomjsa: Yes, people grow up and embrace reality. Except the people who read socialist and communist literature, they never do.

Then we elect them president and wonder why people who never grew up make such lousy presidents.

Hopefully we can put an adult back in the WH in November.

Please tell me what Communist and or Socialist Literature is?

Anyone?


There's lots of good literature on socialist, communist and anarchist theory and practice. I used to have a variety of resource and literature links in my profile; I should redo them with updated information. To begin with I'd suggest checking out works by Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, Rudolf Rocker and Peter Kropotkin. If you want fiction, George Orwell and Upton Sinclair have some significant classics.
 
2012-08-14 08:19:03 PM  

Craptastic: "The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand," - Paul Ryan (2005)

"I grew up reading Ayn Rand and it taught me quite a bit about who I am and what my value systems are," he told the group, adding, "It's inspired me so much that it's required reading in my office for all my interns and my staff." - Paul Ryan (2005)

"I give out 'Atlas Shrugged' as Christmas presents." - Paul Ryan (2007)

"What's unique about what's happening today in government, in the world, in America, is that it's as if we're living in an Ayn Rand novel right now," Ryan said in a series of videos posted to Facebook in 2009. "I think Ayn Rand did the best job of anybody to build a moral case of capitalism, and that morality of capitalism is under assault." - Paul Ryan (2009)

"I, like millions of young people in America, read Rand's novels when I was young. I enjoyed them," he said. "...[but] I reject her philosophy." - Paul Ryan (2012)

so.....he was young in 2009, but now he's much more mature?

Dear Congressman Ryan,

THE INTERNET DOES NOT FORGET. Also, fark you, you farking liar.


God help us all. Republican party needs an industrial level hosing.
 
2012-08-14 08:19:09 PM  

Curse of the Goth Kids: Silly Jesus: One of her heroes, Hugh Akston, leaves his position as a philosopher and works at a roadside diner. He could probably muster up a sandwich.

Yeah, provided the Sysco truck shows up on time.


3.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size


Again, I said at the outset that I like her ideas in theory, but don't necessarily believe that they would work in the real world.
 
2012-08-14 08:20:38 PM  

Silly Jesus: Lionel Mandrake: Silly Jesus: Is this the thread where people who have never read a book, much less understand the basic ideas contained therein, bash it because that's what all the cool libtard trolls do?

*reads first 50 posts*

Yep, meets the Fark formula.

Carry on.

Is this the thread where some Randian shows up and issues a blank dismissal of criticism by simply assuming none of the critics have ever read Rand (because if they did, they would know what a great intellectual and writer she was)?

Yep, carry on

Yes, because a great deal of the comments don't begin with "I've never read or heard of Rand, but I think she's an idiot and her ideas are BS."



A "great deal?" How many? Out of the first 50? Can you point some out? What I see is mostly, I HAVE read Rand, and she is BS"

Hell, just point out ONE
 
2012-08-14 08:20:40 PM  

Silly Jesus: Curse of the Goth Kids: Silly Jesus: One of her heroes, Hugh Akston, leaves his position as a philosopher and works at a roadside diner. He could probably muster up a sandwich.

Yeah, provided the Sysco truck shows up on time.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 290x180]

Again, I said at the outset that I like her ideas in theory, but don't necessarily believe that they would work in the real world.


Then we agree that you're a little old to be believing in leprechauns. Glad to hear it.
 
2012-08-14 08:23:21 PM  

Pocket Ninja: YOU LIE. Tolkien is scintillating reading. He was a storyteller's storyteller.


Do that again, but this time as written by George RR Martin.
 
2012-08-14 08:24:43 PM  
lh4.googleusercontent.comView Full Size
 
2012-08-14 08:25:27 PM  
I broke down and read Atlas Shrugged a few years ago, after hearing nearly everyone I knew rant about how god-awful it was; I wanted to see it for myself.

Holy shiat is that book farking god-awful. I had an easier time getting through Gravity's Rainbow, and that book makes Atlas Shrugged read like See Spot Run. I don't get the hard-on, figuratively or literally, people have for that book or Ayn Rand.
 
2012-08-14 08:25:30 PM  

Silly Jesus: A Dark Evil Omen: Silly Jesus: A Dark Evil Omen: Silly Jesus: Without Fail: Silly Jesus: Yes, because a great deal of the comments don't begin with "I've never read or heard of Rand, but I think she's an idiot and her ideas are BS."

Her heroes are sociopaths.

Hey, that's better than "Rand bad."

How are they sociopaths? I assume you are talking about Galt and Dagny etc? I don't think that they are sociopaths at all. They very much respect those around them that aren't unfairly / unjustly asking / demanding something from them.

Another thing you don't understand: The meaning of the term "sociopath".

so·ci·o·path/ˈsōsēōˌpaTH/
Noun:
A person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.

Hmm. Dictionary. Interesting choice. So, just so we're clear, we need to read hundreds of pages of bad sci-fi to understand a sophomoric personal philosophy that can be adequately summed up in a few sentences, but a few pages in the ICD or DSM is too much to understand a fairly prevalent real personality complex? Do I have that completely right?

Huh? I was posting the "popular" definition of sociopath that he was using.

The characters don't fit the DSM IV criteria very well at all.


Lack of remorse, as indicated by rationalizing harm to others. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behavior. Deception. Constant irresponsibility. They fit the ICD-10 criteria even more closely.
 
2012-08-14 08:26:18 PM  
When Upton Sinclaire wrote his thinly veiled polemic of how great communism was, he wrote about interesting characters that engaged us in their conflict. Rand couldn't even set her books in the real world.
 
2012-08-14 08:27:09 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Silly Jesus: Lionel Mandrake: Silly Jesus: Is this the thread where people who have never read a book, much less understand the basic ideas contained therein, bash it because that's what all the cool libtard trolls do?

*reads first 50 posts*

Yep, meets the Fark formula.

Carry on.

Is this the thread where some Randian shows up and issues a blank dismissal of criticism by simply assuming none of the critics have ever read Rand (because if they did, they would know what a great intellectual and writer she was)?

Yep, carry on

Yes, because a great deal of the comments don't begin with "I've never read or heard of Rand, but I think she's an idiot and her ideas are BS."


A "great deal?" How many? Out of the first 50? Can you point some out? What I see is mostly, I HAVE read Rand, and she is BS"

Hell, just point out ONE


Grand_Moff_Joseph: Went through college and grad school and never heard of Rand or the related books. Did I miss something, or was it all just derpy?


Second post in thread.
 
2012-08-14 08:27:45 PM  

Curse of the Goth Kids: Silly Jesus: Curse of the Goth Kids: Silly Jesus: One of her heroes, Hugh Akston, leaves his position as a philosopher and works at a roadside diner. He could probably muster up a sandwich.

Yeah, provided the Sysco truck shows up on time.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 290x180]

Again, I said at the outset that I like her ideas in theory, but don't necessarily believe that they would work in the real world.

Then we agree that you're a little old to be believing in leprechauns. Glad to hear it.


Not following. Oh well.
 
2012-08-14 08:27:56 PM  
The following are true statements that can be easily verified.

Paul Ryan has stated repeatedly that Ayn Rand is an inspiration to him. He strongly admires her philosophy and credits her with influencing him more than all others... he recently required that his aides read her work. This admiration is well documented.

Ayn Rand stated repeatedly that William Edward Hickman was an inspiration to her. She strongly admired his philosophy and based a major character on him... because he kidnapped, murdered, eviscerated and dismembered a twelve year old girl for money. This admiration was well documented.

The Republican candidate for vice-president is the same Paul Ryan. Be afraid.
He was hand picked after careful research by Mitt Romney. Be very afraid.
 
2012-08-14 08:28:18 PM  

Paul Baumer: [lh4.googleusercontent.com image 525x719]


Y'know, that's probably the most interesting one of those I've seen yet. Well done, sir or madam as the case may be.
 
2012-08-14 08:29:32 PM  
So did he deny her three times?
 
2012-08-14 08:29:55 PM  

t3knomanser: spongeboob: Please tell me what Communist and or Socialist Literature is?

Anything that talks about the concerns of the poor, or how society should work together to care for the least fortunate. So, y'know, the Gospels.


Well Jesus was a long haired bearded sandal wearing migrant, sounds like a hippie to me and all hippies are de facto commies right?
 
2012-08-14 08:31:08 PM  

Fark You I'm Drunk: WhyteRaven74: Fark You I'm Drunk: I'm pretty sure Neil Peart and obsessive Rush fanboys are the only reason there are people past the age of 19 who like Ayn Rand.

Actually Peart got past Rand ages ago.

Peart did, but a lot of his fans didn't. 2112/Anthem/Closer to the Heart is based on Rand, therefore Ayn Rand is the greatest thing ever.


Rush sent Rand Paul a Cease and Desist letter, in a moment of epic lulz.
 
2012-08-14 08:32:33 PM  

peasandcarrots: I can almost always tell a modern objectivist writer by the way they write children. For some reason, children in objectivist books don't just talk like full-grown adults, but they talk like fully-actualized well-rounded intelligent adults who are capable of unpacking and analyzing all their inner demons and assessing a potential strategy for dealing with them.


Pretty much this. Long time ago I read a book named 'The Illuminati" by Larry Burkett that had elementary school age children breaking in to long winded soliloquies about the Liberals and how their policies destroy the world. Ten times more wacky than anything Rand ever wrote since Burkett adds in his fundamentalist Christian worldview. Throw in some anti-technology ranting and you've got grouchy-rightwing-uncle-in-a-book.

I bought the book because I enjoyed The Illuminatus Trilogy and thought it was similar. Wow, was I ever surprised by the difference. But it's worth reading just because it is so derpy and the writing is so bad (the author makes simple mistakes like not knowing how to spell 'Point Mugu' correctly). Amazon has it used for a penny plus shipping if you want a laugh.
 
2012-08-14 08:33:22 PM  

Mad_Radhu: So did he deny her three times?


OK. It's long been a stated goal of mine to open a restaurant simply for the sake of offering a Friday lunch special: deny the divinity of Christ and receive $1.00 off the price of your lunch.

As of now, the Tuesday special will officially be the same thing but for Ayn Rand instead of Jesus.
 
2012-08-14 08:33:26 PM  

Curse of the Goth Kids: Paul Baumer: [lh4.googleusercontent.com image 525x719]

Y'know, that's probably the most interesting one of those I've seen yet. Well done, sir or madam as the case may be.


Bei Danke - I am no Pocket Ninja, but I did one earlier that was well recieved - but I won't mind if you don't like it.

lh6.googleusercontent.comView Full Size
 
2012-08-14 08:34:06 PM  
Had a friend in college who had as his .sig "Who is John Galt?"

Finally got around to asking him WTF John Galt was and he just kept saying "exactly!".

That and the Bob the Angry Flower is all I care to know about her writings.
 
2012-08-14 08:35:03 PM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: FTA:"I reject her philosophy," Ryan says firmly. "It's an atheist philosophy. It reduces human interactions down to mere contracts and it is antithetical to my worldview. If somebody is going to try to paste a person's view on epistemology to me, then give me Thomas Aquinas,"

Funny how he
1) Just came to this realization "just now"
2) It is now derpy to like and also denounce Ayn Rand......Double yew, tee, eff


Even funnier is how un-Ryan-like the philosophies of Thomas Aquinas are:
For it matters not whether one has the grace of tongues, or the gift of faith, or any other gift such as prophecy; these do not bring life without charity.
 
2012-08-14 08:36:37 PM  
Silly Jesus:

Hurrah! An honest-to-goodness Libertarian. They're always funny, Ask him/her about how exactly their plan to do away with all forms of personal identification is going to work. Thats usually good for a giggle,
 
2012-08-14 08:37:29 PM  
Whether he publicly denounces her sh*t or not, the dude is still creepy.

Both of them, really. Yeah, that's your "alternative" to Obama, all right.

Because apparently he's been f*cking up or something.
 
2012-08-14 08:41:40 PM  

Without Fail: The following are true statements that can be easily verified.

Paul Ryan has stated repeatedly that Ayn Rand is an inspiration to him. He strongly admires her philosophy and credits her with influencing him more than all others... he recently required that his aides read her work. This admiration is well documented.

Ayn Rand stated repeatedly that William Edward Hickman was an inspiration to her. She strongly admired his philosophy and based a major character on him... because he kidnapped, murdered, eviscerated and dismembered a twelve year old girl for money. This admiration was well documented.

The Republican candidate for vice-president is the same Paul Ryan. Be afraid.
He was hand picked after careful research by Mitt Romney. Be very afraid.


Keep farkin that chicken.

In 1928, the writer Ayn Rand began planning a novel called The Little Street, whose hero, Danny Renahan, was to be based on "what Hickman suggested to [her]." The novel was never finished, but Rand wrote notes for it which were published after her death in the book Journals of Ayn Rand. Rand wanted the hero of her novel to be "A Hickman with a purpose. And without the degeneracy. It is more exact to say that the model is not Hickman, but what Hickman suggested to me."[3] Rand scholars Chris Matthew Sciabarra and Jennifer Burns both interpret Rand's interest in Hickman as a sign of her early admiration of the ideas of Friedrich Nietzsche, especially since she several times referred to Hickman as a "Superman" (in the Nietzschean sense).[4][5]

Link

You are right, on the most base level. The level that a 5 year old just learning to read would interpret her thoughts and actions vis-a-vis Hickman.

You have any criticisms of her actual work, or do you just enjoy asinine talking points?
 
2012-08-14 08:45:42 PM  

MinkeyMan: Silly Jesus:

Hurrah! An honest-to-goodness Libertarian. They're always funny, Ask him/her about how exactly their plan to do away with all forms of personal identification is going to work. Thats usually good for a giggle,


I didn't know that I had planned to do that. I'll have to get back to you.

Ya know, if someone's ideas mostly line up with a certain party, they must therefore believe in everything that that party has ever said or proposed. That's how it works, right? Derp.
 
2012-08-14 08:46:54 PM  

ps69: What happened to that trend of "Going Galt" that was reported to be widespread on Fox News shortly after Obama was elected and was being threatened by all the captains of industry who ran everything from right wing blogs to far right wing blogs. Did anyone make good on that promise, or did they sit back and collect their share of the massively growing corporate profits and continued low tax rate?


Also, if we increase taxes as much as Obama wants to (to somewhat less than 90s levels), we'll have massive capital flight and another round of Job Creators going Galt. Just like we did in the 90s.
 
2012-08-14 08:46:59 PM  

Silly Jesus: In 1928, the writer Ayn Rand began planning a novel called The Little Street, whose hero, Danny Renahan, was to be based on "what Hickman suggested to [her]." The novel was never finished, but Rand wrote notes for it which were published after her death in the book Journals of Ayn Rand. Rand wanted the hero of her novel to be "A Hickman with a purpose. And without the degeneracy. It is more exact to say that the model is not Hickman, but what Hickman suggested to me."[3] Rand scholars Chris Matthew Sciabarra and Jennifer Burns both interpret Rand's interest in Hickman as a sign of her early admiration of the ideas of Friedrich Nietzsche, especially since she several times referred to Hickman as a "Superman" (in the Nietzschean sense).[4][5]

Link

You are right, on the most base level. The level that a 5 year old just learning to read would interpret her thoughts and actions vis-a-vis Hickman.

You have any criticisms of her actual work, or do you just enjoy asinine talking points?


Good effort on the white knighting, but she's not going to sleep with you, you know.
 
2012-08-14 08:50:40 PM  

Parthenogenetic: Silly Jesus: In 1928, the writer Ayn Rand began planning a novel called The Little Street, whose hero, Danny Renahan, was to be based on "what Hickman suggested to [her]." The novel was never finished, but Rand wrote notes for it which were published after her death in the book Journals of Ayn Rand. Rand wanted the hero of her novel to be "A Hickman with a purpose. And without the degeneracy. It is more exact to say that the model is not Hickman, but what Hickman suggested to me."[3] Rand scholars Chris Matthew Sciabarra and Jennifer Burns both interpret Rand's interest in Hickman as a sign of her early admiration of the ideas of Friedrich Nietzsche, especially since she several times referred to Hickman as a "Superman" (in the Nietzschean sense).[4][5]

Link

You are right, on the most base level. The level that a 5 year old just learning to read would interpret her thoughts and actions vis-a-vis Hickman.

You have any criticisms of her actual work, or do you just enjoy asinine talking points?

Good effort on the white knighting, but she's not going to sleep with you, you know.


No kidding. What masochistic type would spent that much energy defending such a laughable pile of ideologically selfish (and badly written) garbage?

Rhetorical question, mind you....
 
2012-08-14 08:50:41 PM  

Parthenogenetic:
Good effort on the white knighting, but she's not going to sleep with you, you know.


I dunno, I'd say that depends on how handy he is with a shovel.
 
2012-08-14 08:51:21 PM  

Silly Jesus: MinkeyMan: Silly Jesus:

Hurrah! An honest-to-goodness Libertarian. They're always funny, Ask him/her about how exactly their plan to do away with all forms of personal identification is going to work. Thats usually good for a giggle,

I didn't know that I had planned to do that. I'll have to get back to you.

Ya know, if someone's ideas mostly line up with a certain party, they must therefore believe in everything that that party has ever said or proposed. That's how it works, right? Derp.


Well now you've got me curious. How do you square personally believing in a personal ID requirement with the tenets of Libertarianism that you DO like?
 
2012-08-14 08:51:23 PM  

Silly Jesus: MinkeyMan: Silly Jesus:

Hurrah! An honest-to-goodness Libertarian. They're always funny, Ask him/her about how exactly their plan to do away with all forms of personal identification is going to work. Thats usually good for a giggle,

I didn't know that I had planned to do that. I'll have to get back to you.

Ya know, if someone's ideas mostly line up with a certain party, they must therefore believe in everything that that party has ever said or proposed. That's how it works, right? Derp.


Ah, you are a LINO then. Should have know a real Libertarian was too to hope for.
 
2012-08-14 08:51:44 PM  
media.tumblr.comView Full Size


This is a pretty good book.

Anyone whose first exposure to Rand is through this book is always really, really, really, really, really disappointed with the rest of her oeuvre.
 
2012-08-14 08:52:57 PM  

Teufelaffe: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Went through college and grad school and never heard of Rand or the related books. Did I miss something, or was it all just derpy?

It's pretty derpy. Bad writing and the purest form of the "I've got mine, fark you" philosophy. If you're in the mood for an author with Objectivist leanings, try The Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind. Much better writing, and he manages to hide his "Individualism GOOOD, collectivism BAAAD" pretty well until the fourth or fifth book.


That was my experience. However, his villains and heroes are all caricatures. Even in the first book. Richard Cypher/Rahl was a paragon of virtue while Darken Rahl was so unbelievably evil just for the sake of being evil.

I think it was the fifth book (Soul of the Fire) where the Objectivism became apparent, and the next one (Faith of the Fallen) was Terry Goodkind's attempt to beat his readers over the head with Atlas Shrugged. Seeing that Goodkind was heavily influenced by Ayn Rand affected the quality of the entire series, even those books where it isn't apparent.

/read the entire series.
//sucked after Temple of the Winds
///got even worse after Chainfire
////barely finished the series
//unemployment gave me a lot of free time
 
2012-08-14 08:53:09 PM  

TV's Vinnie: BojanglesPaladin: Although in Fairness, Moore based Rorschach on the Question anyway, so....

A cute little side-story was when The Question first heard about the Rorschach character, identified with him, and tried to emulate him.

[media.comicvine.com image 600x382]
[www.revolutionsf.com image 317x500]
[www.revolutionsf.com image 300x492]
[www.revolutionsf.com image 500x195]
[www.revolutionsf.com image 400x350]

By the end of the story, The Question came to the obvious conclusion...........

[www.revolutionsf.com image 96x500]


Rorschach was the way he was because Moore thought the Question and Mr. A were annoying, idiotic prats. So, like many characters Moore creates to skewer things, they're extreme. Apparently, after Watchmen, Ditko was asked if he knew about Rorschach; he said that yes, the character was like Mr. A, only insane.

To be equally fair, as much as I like Moore, 'V' was just as stupid as Mr. A. Just as many of the tenants of Ditko's Objectivism aren't workable in the real world, many of the tenants of Moore's anarchist philosophy in 'V for Vendetta' aren't workable, either.

Hint: the problem isn't the philosophy, guys. It's that fact that humans suck and many will either ignore or try to game your 'perfect moral system'.
 
2012-08-14 08:53:51 PM  

whidbey: Parthenogenetic: Silly Jesus: In 1928, the writer Ayn Rand began planning a novel called The Little Street, whose hero, Danny Renahan, was to be based on "what Hickman suggested to [her]." The novel was never finished, but Rand wrote notes for it which were published after her death in the book Journals of Ayn Rand. Rand wanted the hero of her novel to be "A Hickman with a purpose. And without the degeneracy. It is more exact to say that the model is not Hickman, but what Hickman suggested to me."[3] Rand scholars Chris Matthew Sciabarra and Jennifer Burns both interpret Rand's interest in Hickman as a sign of her early admiration of the ideas of Friedrich Nietzsche, especially since she several times referred to Hickman as a "Superman" (in the Nietzschean sense).[4][5]

Link

You are right, on the most base level. The level that a 5 year old just learning to read would interpret her thoughts and actions vis-a-vis Hickman.

You have any criticisms of her actual work, or do you just enjoy asinine talking points?

Good effort on the white knighting, but she's not going to sleep with you, you know.

No kidding. What masochistic type would spent that much energy defending such a laughable pile of ideologically selfish (and badly written) garbage?

blogs-images.forbes.comView Full Size


Rhetorical question, mind you....


Oh.
 
2012-08-14 08:54:35 PM  

Parthenogenetic: Silly Jesus: In 1928, the writer Ayn Rand began planning a novel called The Little Street, whose hero, Danny Renahan, was to be based on "what Hickman suggested to [her]." The novel was never finished, but Rand wrote notes for it which were published after her death in the book Journals of Ayn Rand. Rand wanted the hero of her novel to be "A Hickman with a purpose. And without the degeneracy. It is more exact to say that the model is not Hickman, but what Hickman suggested to me."[3] Rand scholars Chris Matthew Sciabarra and Jennifer Burns both interpret Rand's interest in Hickman as a sign of her early admiration of the ideas of Friedrich Nietzsche, especially since she several times referred to Hickman as a "Superman" (in the Nietzschean sense).[4][5]

Link

You are right, on the most base level. The level that a 5 year old just learning to read would interpret her thoughts and actions vis-a-vis Hickman.

You have any criticisms of her actual work, or do you just enjoy asinine talking points?

Good effort on the white knighting, but she's not going to sleep with you, you know.


But she's so farking hot!
 
2012-08-14 08:55:35 PM  
In "Coming to America," the Princes renounces the throne of Zamunda to prove to the girl his love, but he ends up getting the girl, and taking his rightful place next to the thone.
 
2012-08-14 08:56:10 PM  

MinkeyMan: Silly Jesus: MinkeyMan: Silly Jesus:

Hurrah! An honest-to-goodness Libertarian. They're always funny, Ask him/her about how exactly their plan to do away with all forms of personal identification is going to work. Thats usually good for a giggle,

I didn't know that I had planned to do that. I'll have to get back to you.

Ya know, if someone's ideas mostly line up with a certain party, they must therefore believe in everything that that party has ever said or proposed. That's how it works, right? Derp.

Ah, you are a LINO then. Should have know a real Libertarian was too to hope for.


So only real Libertarians / Democrats / Republicans believe every single idea of said party? Interesting.
 
2012-08-14 08:56:20 PM  

Silly Jesus: Without Fail: The following are true statements that can be easily verified.

Paul Ryan has stated repeatedly that Ayn Rand is an inspiration to him. He strongly admires her philosophy and credits her with influencing him more than all others... he recently required that his aides read her work. This admiration is well documented.

Ayn Rand stated repeatedly that William Edward Hickman was an inspiration to her. She strongly admired his philosophy and based a major character on him... because he kidnapped, murdered, eviscerated and dismembered a twelve year old girl for money. This admiration was well documented.

The Republican candidate for vice-president is the same Paul Ryan. Be afraid.
He was hand picked after careful research by Mitt Romney. Be very afraid.

Keep farkin that chicken.

In 1928, the writer Ayn Rand began planning a novel called The Little Street, whose hero, Danny Renahan, was to be based on "what Hickman suggested to [her]." The novel was never finished, but Rand wrote notes for it which were published after her death in the book Journals of Ayn Rand. Rand wanted the hero of her novel to be "A Hickman with a purpose. And without the degeneracy. It is more exact to say that the model is not Hickman, but what Hickman suggested to me."[3] Rand scholars Chris Matthew Sciabarra and Jennifer Burns both interpret Rand's interest in Hickman as a sign of her early admiration of the ideas of Friedrich Nietzsche, especially since she several times referred to Hickman as a "Superman" (in the Nietzschean sense).[4][5]

Link

You are right, on the most base level. The level that a 5 year old just learning to read would interpret her thoughts and actions vis-a-vis Hickman.

You have any criticisms of her actual work, or do you just enjoy asinine talking points?


/You're a gallant defender, but she still won't sleep with you.
//But only because she's dead
///If she was alive, though, she would totally bone you.
 
2012-08-14 08:59:49 PM  

Paul Baumer: Silly Jesus: MinkeyMan: Silly Jesus:

Hurrah! An honest-to-goodness Libertarian. They're always funny, Ask him/her about how exactly their plan to do away with all forms of personal identification is going to work. Thats usually good for a giggle,

I didn't know that I had planned to do that. I'll have to get back to you.

Ya know, if someone's ideas mostly line up with a certain party, they must therefore believe in everything that that party has ever said or proposed. That's how it works, right? Derp.

Well now you've got me curious. How do you square personally believing in a personal ID requirement with the tenets of Libertarianism that you DO like?


I don't follow the straw man that you seem to be setting up.
 
2012-08-14 09:00:05 PM  

Fark You I'm Drunk: Silly Jesus: Yes. Believe it or not the only discussion about Mein Kampf isn't "Hitler bad", "I agree", "OK, next book."

"Hey, I think that Hitler guy was on to something"?


i.dailymail.co.ukView Full Size


//Thought Hitler had some good ideas
// But marijuana turned us into peace loving hippies.
 
2012-08-14 09:00:23 PM  
FAN RADIAN FACT #2617: AYAN RAND WAS A FAN OF A CHILD ABDUCTOR AND SERIAL KILLER:

http://atheism.about.com/b/2011/05/11/ayn-rand-sociopath-who-admired - a -serial-killer.htm

http://exiledonline.com/atlas-shrieked-why-ayn-rands-right-wing-follo w ers-are-scarier-than-the-manson-family-and-the-gruesome-story-of-the-s erial-killer-who-stole-ayn-rands-heart/


peikoff.comView Full Size
murderpedia.orgView Full Size

exiledonline.comView Full Size


"Hickman kidnapped Parker on December 15, 1927, by appearing at her junior high school, claiming that her father, Perry Parker, was ill, and that he wanted to see his daughter. He did not realize there were twin Parker daughters, and did not know either child's name, but the school administrator turned one of the girls over to him. The next day Hickman sent the first of three ransom notes to the Parker home, demanding $1,500 in $20 gold certificates.

On December 19, Parker delivered the ransom in Los Angeles but in return Hickman delivered the girl's dismembered body. Her arms and legs had been severed and her internal organs removed. A towel stuffed into her body to absorb blood led police to Hickman's apartment building, but he managed to escape. A $100,000 reward was offered for his capture, and for nearly a week Hickman eluded authorities."


Yep. This is the guy that Ayn patterned John Galt after because of his "rebel who lives by his own rules" attitude.
 
2012-08-14 09:00:54 PM  
poor bastard is in omaha

farm5.static.flickr.comView Full Size


i got 25 pages into atlas shrugged once but then literally shrugged and said 'this is stupid and poorly written.'
 
2012-08-14 09:02:02 PM  

Huggermugger: Silly Jesus: Without Fail: The following are true statements that can be easily verified.

Paul Ryan has stated repeatedly that Ayn Rand is an inspiration to him. He strongly admires her philosophy and credits her with influencing him more than all others... he recently required that his aides read her work. This admiration is well documented.

Ayn Rand stated repeatedly that William Edward Hickman was an inspiration to her. She strongly admired his philosophy and based a major character on him... because he kidnapped, murdered, eviscerated and dismembered a twelve year old girl for money. This admiration was well documented.

The Republican candidate for vice-president is the same Paul Ryan. Be afraid.
He was hand picked after careful research by Mitt Romney. Be very afraid.

Keep farkin that chicken.

In 1928, the writer Ayn Rand began planning a novel called The Little Street, whose hero, Danny Renahan, was to be based on "what Hickman suggested to [her]." The novel was never finished, but Rand wrote notes for it which were published after her death in the book Journals of Ayn Rand. Rand wanted the hero of her novel to be "A Hickman with a purpose. And without the degeneracy. It is more exact to say that the model is not Hickman, but what Hickman suggested to me."[3] Rand scholars Chris Matthew Sciabarra and Jennifer Burns both interpret Rand's interest in Hickman as a sign of her early admiration of the ideas of Friedrich Nietzsche, especially since she several times referred to Hickman as a "Superman" (in the Nietzschean sense).[4][5]

Link

You are right, on the most base level. The level that a 5 year old just learning to read would interpret her thoughts and actions vis-a-vis Hickman.

You have any criticisms of her actual work, or do you just enjoy asinine talking points?

/You're a gallant defender, but she still won't sleep with you.
//But only because she's dead
///If she was alive, though, she would totally bone you.


You are making my pants get tight in my special region.
 
2012-08-14 09:02:03 PM  
Hey guys, Attila the Hun may not have been 100% bad, only mostly but you know some good stuff also.

Also, I don't understand your earthman ways.
 
2012-08-14 09:04:08 PM  

Lando Lincoln: HellRaisingHoosier: Is this legitimately what the book is about? I've never read it, or even a summary of it. We need to figure out a way to make all the bankers and CEO's leave. They've been farking a lot of shiat up.

Here's a much more thorough and undoubtedly accurate summary of it. Even the summary is extremely tedious. Ayn Rand sucked as a writer.

SparkNotes: Atlas Shrugged


Summary of the summary: "In an environment of worsening economic conditions, Dagny Taggart, vice president in charge of operations, works to repair Taggart Transcontinental's crumbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz "
 
2012-08-14 09:05:23 PM  

Pocket Ninja: I'm willing to bet quite a bit of money that if you selected, at random, any 10 individuals who have ever posted in a thread about Ayn Rand (either favorably or unfavorably), locked them in a room without any pre-warning or internet access, and then asked them each to provide a 2-minute summary of "Atlas Shrugged," no more than 2 or 3 would be able to do so.


...once you get done summarizing the book and its thesis, what are you going to do for the other 1:45, talk about rape? I've never before in my life read a thousand-page book that had so little to say. Goddamn Twilight had more of a point.
 
2012-08-14 09:07:40 PM  

Silly Jesus: Jaws_Victim: What, Ayn Rand thread and no one posts the classic sequel?

Allow me:
[1.bp.blogspot.com image 790x416]

idsfa: Seriously?

This long and no one (that I am not ignoring) posted it?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 790x416]

That would be clever, if the person who drew it had read the book. One of her heroes, Hugh Akston, leaves his position as a philosopher and works at a roadside diner. He could probably muster up a sandwich. There are plenty of other examples of her heroes accomplishing menial tasks.

This is the greater point that I was getting at up thread. Everyone thinks that they can just not read the book and form a reasoned opinion on her philosophy based on silly cartoons which would seem absurd to anyone who had actually read the damn thing.

Stupid cartoon is stupid.


The point of the cartoon isn't LITERALLY that the heroes can't make lunch, silly poster. The point is that the novel has a flawed premise, they can leave society forever but without the "stupid" laborer who isn't a billionaire to do your dirty work, you are forced to do it and become the laborer yourself. This is instead of being Titans of industry with mansions, servants, cooks, and drivers to do everything for them. No rich person is going to abandon their comfortable lifestyle and live in a shack because the government attempted to raise taxes (or the laughable plot of the novel where the government pretty much takes over everything and screws it all up and corporations are poor, harmless victims who only do good for their work force.)

Rand boils down to, I got mine, don't you farking touch it. This is delightful, if you're a psychopath.

/yes, I did read the novel
//my grade school education leads to the opinions above, pick it apart English Majors. now is your time to shine
 
2012-08-14 09:07:58 PM  

Silly Jesus: You are right, on the most base level. The level that a 5 year old just learning to read would interpret her thoughts and actions vis-a-vis Hickman.

You have any criticisms of her actual work, or do you just enjoy asinine talking points?


Listen, idiot, read the Journals of Ayn Rand read the quotes that she made to newspapers AT THAT TIME.
As I said, it is easily verifiable. Can you actually think for yourself? Here

She actually said, repeatedly, that she admired him. She said:

[William Hickman's trial] is the amazing picture of a man with no regard whatever for all that society holds sacred, and with a consciousness all his own. A man who really stands alone, in action and in soul... A strong man can eventually trample society under his feet. He was not strong enough. But is that his crime? That he was not able to serve, when he felt worthy to rule; to obey, when he wanted to command? He was superior and he wanted to live as such - and his is the one thing society does not permit.

That's a quote. Get it? She admired him because he wasn't bound by morals and ethos and she considered him a superman. This isn't secret stuff, her writings gush about the guy. And Ryan gushes about her.

Quit projecting. Read the facts for yourself.
 
2012-08-14 09:09:10 PM  

Omahawg: poor bastard is in omaha

[farm5.static.flickr.com image 500x375]

i got 25 pages into atlas shrugged once but then literally shrugged and said 'this is stupid and poorly written.'


No surprise since that's in the "rich white and conservative" part of town
 
2012-08-14 09:16:19 PM  

Jaws_Victim: Silly Jesus: Jaws_Victim: What, Ayn Rand thread and no one posts the classic sequel?

Allow me:
[1.bp.blogspot.com image 790x416]

idsfa: Seriously?

This long and no one (that I am not ignoring) posted it?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 790x416]

That would be clever, if the person who drew it had read the book. One of her heroes, Hugh Akston, leaves his position as a philosopher and works at a roadside diner. He could probably muster up a sandwich. There are plenty of other examples of her heroes accomplishing menial tasks.

This is the greater point that I was getting at up thread. Everyone thinks that they can just not read the book and form a reasoned opinion on her philosophy based on silly cartoons which would seem absurd to anyone who had actually read the damn thing.

Stupid cartoon is stupid.

The point of the cartoon isn't LITERALLY that the heroes can't make lunch, silly poster. The point is that the novel has a flawed premise, they can leave society forever but without the "stupid" laborer who isn't a billionaire to do your dirty work, you are forced to do it and become the laborer yourself. This is instead of being Titans of industry with mansions, servants, cooks, and drivers to do everything for them. No rich person is going to abandon their comfortable lifestyle and live in a shack because the government attempted to raise taxes (or the laughable plot of the novel where the government pretty much takes over everything and screws it all up and corporations are poor, harmless victims who only do good for their work force.)

Rand boils down to, I got mine, don't you farking touch it. This is delightful, if you're a psychopath.

/yes, I did read the novel
//my grade school education leads to the opinions above, pick it apart English Majors. now is your time to shine


Either we read different books or you forgot a great deal bout Galt's Gulch.
 
2012-08-14 09:19:22 PM  

Without Fail: Silly Jesus: You are right, on the most base level. The level that a 5 year old just learning to read would interpret her thoughts and actions vis-a-vis Hickman.

You have any criticisms of her actual work, or do you just enjoy asinine talking points?

Listen, idiot, read the Journals of Ayn Rand read the quotes that she made to newspapers AT THAT TIME.
As I said, it is easily verifiable. Can you actually think for yourself? Here

She actually said, repeatedly, that she admired him. She said:

[William Hickman's trial] is the amazing picture of a man with no regard whatever for all that society holds sacred, and with a consciousness all his own. A man who really stands alone, in action and in soul... A strong man can eventually trample society under his feet. He was not strong enough. But is that his crime? That he was not able to serve, when he felt worthy to rule; to obey, when he wanted to command? He was superior and he wanted to live as such - and his is the one thing society does not permit.

That's a quote. Get it? She admired him because he wasn't bound by morals and ethos and she considered him a superman. This isn't secret stuff, her writings gush about the guy. And Ryan gushes about her.

Quit projecting. Read the facts for yourself.


Ooh, you mad.

Sorry that your reading comprehension is so lacking. Maybe it will pass.

Good day sir.
 
2012-08-14 09:20:28 PM  
Somewhere hidden inside the collected works of Ayn Rand there's a 2 page pamphlet of interesting ideas trying to force its way out. The trouble is the other 1998 pages.
 
2012-08-14 09:22:20 PM  

Curse of the Goth Kids: Hey guys, Attila the Hun may not have been 100% bad, only mostly but you know some good stuff also.

Also, I don't understand your earthman ways.


Neither do you understand my advanced technology.

It is a thing of great sadness.

img100.imageshack.usView Full Size
 
IP [TotalFark]
2012-08-14 09:22:39 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Ghastly: In that regard she is very like Tolkien (nobody reads the farking elf songs).

YOU LIE. Tolkien is scintillating reading. He was a storyteller's storyteller.

Frodo set down the ring and sank to the earth in repose. From his backpack, Sam produced a flask of water and some Elven Lembas, and from his waistpouch a small, sealed tin. The tin had been crafted by the tinsmith L'Ortheala'i of the second line of Durenorathala during the Second Age, on the High Night of Pancrea when the Solenil were running in the crystal water from high Holitla and the Darklmunnerors lay yet beneath the graven stones of their forebears who had not yet descended from the lofty heights of Arameir to craft their stony halls. Inside the tin lay a single pat of Glumeliian Butter, which had not been seen in the Shire since the first days of the last days of Sam's mother's father, known to some as his grandfather, who had traveled the Windy Trail beneath the Solemn Mist of the Mount of Holitakea to beseech the Caravan Master of Noriktha, himself of the second line of Durenorathala, to attend the upcoming Festival Harvest of Firhtyta and sell some butter there. Which Sam's mother's father/Grandfather did buy and save in the shallows of the cool Hoytr's water, and which Sam had dutifully carried with him from the moment of their departure.

With the butter knife that had had been crafted by his second cousin Hal, who had been borne during the Third Coming of the Second Rising of the Fourth Turning of the Seventh House and had traveled to Genedain to learn the craft of butter knife forging from the Elven smith Lorelairlahdsthgfksdghjk, son of Ka, Sam spread a pat of Glumeliian Butter on the Lembas and handed the small morsel to Frodo.

"Mmm," Frodo said. "This is some very tasty butter."


I bow to your magnificence, good sir (or madam).
 
2012-08-14 09:23:31 PM  

Silly Jesus: Lionel Mandrake: Silly Jesus: Lionel Mandrake: Silly Jesus: Is this the thread where people who have never read a book, much less understand the basic ideas contained therein, bash it because that's what all the cool libtard trolls do?

*reads first 50 posts*

Yep, meets the Fark formula.

Carry on.

Is this the thread where some Randian shows up and issues a blank dismissal of criticism by simply assuming none of the critics have ever read Rand (because if they did, they would know what a great intellectual and writer she was)?

Yep, carry on

Yes, because a great deal of the comments don't begin with "I've never read or heard of Rand, but I think she's an idiot and her ideas are BS."


A "great deal?" How many? Out of the first 50? Can you point some out? What I see is mostly, I HAVE read Rand, and she is BS"

Hell, just point out ONE

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Went through college and grad school and never heard of Rand or the related books. Did I miss something, or was it all just derpy?

Second post in thread.


He was asking if it was bad, he did not say it was or that he hated it or Rand

I guess you have to play ignorant to back up your lie
 
2012-08-14 09:28:47 PM  

Silly Jesus: Jaws_Victim: Silly Jesus: Jaws_Victim: What, Ayn Rand thread and no one posts the classic sequel?

Allow me:
[1.bp.blogspot.com image 790x416]

idsfa: Seriously?

This long and no one (that I am not ignoring) posted it?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 790x416]

That would be clever, if the person who drew it had read the book. One of her heroes, Hugh Akston, leaves his position as a philosopher and works at a roadside diner. He could probably muster up a sandwich. There are plenty of other examples of her heroes accomplishing menial tasks.

This is the greater point that I was getting at up thread. Everyone thinks that they can just not read the book and form a reasoned opinion on her philosophy based on silly cartoons which would seem absurd to anyone who had actually read the damn thing.

Stupid cartoon is stupid.

The point of the cartoon isn't LITERALLY that the heroes can't make lunch, silly poster. The point is that the novel has a flawed premise, they can leave society forever but without the "stupid" laborer who isn't a billionaire to do your dirty work, you are forced to do it and become the laborer yourself. This is instead of being Titans of industry with mansions, servants, cooks, and drivers to do everything for them. No rich person is going to abandon their comfortable lifestyle and live in a shack because the government attempted to raise taxes (or the laughable plot of the novel where the government pretty much takes over everything and screws it all up and corporations are poor, harmless victims who only do good for their work force.)

Rand boils down to, I got mine, don't you farking touch it. This is delightful, if you're a psychopath.

/yes, I did read the novel
//my grade school education leads to the opinions above, pick it apart English Majors. now is your time to shine

Either we read different books or you forgot a great deal bout Galt's Gulch.


So what? "I used to be a Titan of Steel manufacturing, now I bake bread! Oh how much better life is now that I'm not forced to give my recipe for stronger lighter steel to the world at large for its many uses! WHAT ABOUT MY PROFIT MARGIN?"

It was pretty hard to read though, what with my eyes constantly rolling.
 
2012-08-14 09:31:25 PM  
From Objectivist to Jesuit is not much of an improvement.
 
2012-08-14 09:32:33 PM  

Omahawg: poor bastard is in omaha

[farm5.static.flickr.com image 500x375]

i got 25 pages into atlas shrugged once but then literally shrugged and said 'this is stupid and poorly written.'


I would run for city council in Omaha just to get that thoroughfare renamed.
 
2012-08-14 09:34:28 PM  

Meethos: FlashHarry: "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

-- Paul Krugman

That's not Paul Krugman's btw.

It belongs to some guy named John Rogers


One of the comments to that article: "There are entire university courses and programs dedicated to studying her works [snark about Women's Studies, African American Studies etc. in 4...3...2...]; there is an active Ayn Rand Society chapter of 50+ members of the American Philosophical Association; Cambridge University Press is publishing an academic book on her ethics--adding to a growing bookshelf of academic books and articles on Objectivism; there are tenured professors who are self-described Objectivists [hey waitafugginminute, I thought Ivory Tower Intellectuals were all libruls!]; Objectivist scholars are regularly interviewed on TV shows--often several times per week [citation needed]."
 
2012-08-14 09:35:57 PM  

Silly Jesus: Without Fail: The following are true statements that can be easily verified.

Paul Ryan has stated repeatedly that Ayn Rand is an inspiration to him. He strongly admires her philosophy and credits her with influencing him more than all others... he recently required that his aides read her work. This admiration is well documented.

Ayn Rand stated repeatedly that William Edward Hickman was an inspiration to her. She strongly admired his philosophy and based a major character on him... because he kidnapped, murdered, eviscerated and dismembered a twelve year old girl for money. This admiration was well documented.

The Republican candidate for vice-president is the same Paul Ryan. Be afraid.
He was hand picked after careful research by Mitt Romney. Be very afraid.

Keep farkin that chicken.

In 1928, the writer Ayn Rand began planning a novel called The Little Street, whose hero, Danny Renahan, was to be based on "what Hickman suggested to [her]." The novel was never finished, but Rand wrote notes for it which were published after her death in the book Journals of Ayn Rand. Rand wanted the hero of her novel to be "A Hickman with a purpose. And without the degeneracy. It is more exact to say that the model is not Hickman, but what Hickman suggested to me."[3] Rand scholars Chris Matthew Sciabarra and Jennifer Burns both interpret Rand's interest in Hickman as a sign of her early admiration of the ideas of Friedrich Nietzsche, especially since she several times referred to Hickman as a "Superman" (in the Nietzschean sense).[4][5]

Link

You are right, on the most base level. The level that a 5 year old just learning to read would interpret her thoughts and actions vis-a-vis Hickman.

You have any criticisms of her actual work, or do you just enjoy asinine talking points?


She's a farking hypocrite. That's all you need to know, dimwit.
 
2012-08-14 09:39:19 PM  

FlashHarry: i waded through the fountainhead when i was 15 or so. i tried atlas shrugged, but gave up a third of the way through. it was just so badly written.


No, see, it wasn't that Atlas Shrugged was badly written ... it's just that your mom was drinking (and probably smoking) when she was pregnant with you. Your brain isn't obviously "Down-ee", but it is.
 
2012-08-14 09:41:12 PM  

enry: Had a friend in college who had as his .sig "Who is John Galt?"

Finally got around to asking him WTF John Galt was and he just kept saying "exactly!".

That and the Bob the Angry Flower is all I care to know about her writings.


Much as is the case with Karl Marx, Jesus and Muhammad, the worst advertisement for Ayn Rand is Randroids.
 
2012-08-14 09:43:47 PM  
Her non-fiction seems marginally more readable.
Not particularly solid philosophy, mind you. But at least the screeds in Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal and The Virtue of Selfishness were shorter and stand alone.

I've wondered a few times if Neil Stephenson wrote "Diamond Age" in part as a rebuttal to some of her work.
 
2012-08-14 09:45:21 PM  

Lando Lincoln: HellRaisingHoosier: Is this legitimately what the book is about? I've never read it, or even a summary of it. We need to figure out a way to make all the bankers and CEO's leave. They've been farking a lot of shiat up.

Here's a much more thorough and undoubtedly accurate summary of it. Even the summary is extremely tedious. Ayn Rand sucked as a writer.

SparkNotes: Atlas Shrugged


Jesus, that was almost as bad as the book.

/and i use the term 'book' loosely
//it's a bound collection of pages, mmmyes
 
2012-08-14 09:50:30 PM  

sammyk: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Went through college and grad school and never heard of Rand or the related books. Did I miss something, or was it all just derpy?

The first I ever heard of it was from Machelle Malkin. I didn't bother looking into it any further. The cult like following it gets reminds me of The Turner Diaries.


This is the first I ever heard of her.

4.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size
 
2012-08-14 09:53:26 PM  

Silly Jesus: Gimmick: The plot of Atlas Shrugged in 12 seconds.

HA! That's exactly like the moochers.


The moochers and looters are the people in Galt's Gulch. The start up capital for their society was gained by piracy of foreign aid. Sure, Ragnar and the others use the self serving justification that they are just stealing back the tax money that was stolen from them, but they are stealing aid that was paid for by the taxes of everyone in the country not only the people who move to the gulch. Ragnar even admits literally in the text of the book that he's stealing. He says he's a reverse robin hood who is stealing from the poor to give to teh rich. He adds the adjective "thieving" to "poor" to rationalize but all thieves rationalize their crimes. Their whole society is founded on stolen goods.

Galt and his followers have decided that they are the "productive" people and that by nature of being who they are deserve everything and fark everyone else. They decide they are special and so it is not only not wrong but it is completely righteous when they steal from everyone that isn't part of their self declared elite.
 
2012-08-14 09:53:49 PM  
So he goes from Rand to Aquinas, well at least he's consistent, both were authors whose work should have been a lot shorter and who should've realized they were, after twenty pages on a single point, just droning on.
 
2012-08-14 09:54:45 PM  
Hmmm... So many opinions about this book. I should read it. Let me go to Amazon, and...

"Mass Market Paperback: 1088 pages"

Fark your mother.
 
2012-08-14 10:00:44 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Silly Jesus: Lionel Mandrake: Silly Jesus: Lionel Mandrake: Silly Jesus: Is this the thread where people who have never read a book, much less understand the basic ideas contained therein, bash it because that's what all the cool libtard trolls do?

*reads first 50 posts*

Yep, meets the Fark formula.

Carry on.

Is this the thread where some Randian shows up and issues a blank dismissal of criticism by simply assuming none of the critics have ever read Rand (because if they did, they would know what a great intellectual and writer she was)?

Yep, carry on

Yes, because a great deal of the comments don't begin with "I've never read or heard of Rand, but I think she's an idiot and her ideas are BS."


A "great deal?" How many? Out of the first 50? Can you point some out? What I see is mostly, I HAVE read Rand, and she is BS"

Hell, just point out ONE

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Went through college and grad school and never heard of Rand or the related books. Did I miss something, or was it all just derpy?

Second post in thread.

He was asking if it was bad, he did not say it was or that he hated it or Rand

I guess you have to play ignorant to back up your lie


Oh, I thought that the part where he states he hasn't read it, and then asks if it's all derpy, implied that he thought it was derpy without having read it. I should get my glasses checked, I guess. Derrrrp.
 
2012-08-14 10:01:33 PM  
I read Atlas Shrugged in my 20's without knowing much about politics or objectivicsm and I enjoyed it. I guess I read it wrong because I thought the "leeches" were all the useless middlemen and bureaucrats like Dagny's brother. Applied today, I assumed it was the stupid paper-pushers on wall street who created nothing of value to which all companies seem to be slaves and self destruct in an effort to squeeze out an extra bucks for the shareholders.

Also read Fountainhead and thought that one was just about a guy who refused to compromise his ideals in favor of doing whatever was popular and I thought it was a good book and good message as well.

So in summation, they're good books if you're apparently a poor reader like me.
 
2012-08-14 10:02:40 PM  

Jaws_Victim: So what? "I used to be a Titan of Steel manufacturing, now I bake bread! Oh how much better life is now that I'm not forced to give my recipe for stronger lighter steel to the world at large for its many uses! WHAT ABOUT MY PROFIT MARGIN?"


riveraveblues.comView Full Size
 
2012-08-14 10:03:36 PM  

DirkValentine: Silly Jesus: Without Fail: The following are true statements that can be easily verified.

Paul Ryan has stated repeatedly that Ayn Rand is an inspiration to him. He strongly admires her philosophy and credits her with influencing him more than all others... he recently required that his aides read her work. This admiration is well documented.

Ayn Rand stated repeatedly that William Edward Hickman was an inspiration to her. She strongly admired his philosophy and based a major character on him... because he kidnapped, murdered, eviscerated and dismembered a twelve year old girl for money. This admiration was well documented.

The Republican candidate for vice-president is the same Paul Ryan. Be afraid.
He was hand picked after careful research by Mitt Romney. Be very afraid.

Keep farkin that chicken.

In 1928, the writer Ayn Rand began planning a novel called The Little Street, whose hero, Danny Renahan, was to be based on "what Hickman suggested to [her]." The novel was never finished, but Rand wrote notes for it which were published after her death in the book Journals of Ayn Rand. Rand wanted the hero of her novel to be "A Hickman with a purpose. And without the degeneracy. It is more exact to say that the model is not Hickman, but what Hickman suggested to me."[3] Rand scholars Chris Matthew Sciabarra and Jennifer Burns both interpret Rand's interest in Hickman as a sign of her early admiration of the ideas of Friedrich Nietzsche, especially since she several times referred to Hickman as a "Superman" (in the Nietzschean sense).[4][5]

Link

You are right, on the most base level. The level that a 5 year old just learning to read would interpret her thoughts and actions vis-a-vis Hickman.

You have any criticisms of her actual work, or do you just enjoy asinine talking points?

She's a farking hypocrite. That's all you need to know, dimwit.


My feewings, you hurted them.
 
2012-08-14 10:04:53 PM  

Silly Jesus: Oh, I thought that the part where he states he hasn't read it, and then asks if it's all derpy, implied that he thought it was derpy without having read it. I should get my glasses checked, I guess. Derrrrp.


Yes, asks. He also asks if he had missed something, so you could just as easily say he implied it was worth reading.

You're not helping to disprove the image of Randians as idiots.
 
2012-08-14 10:05:54 PM  
Eh, he just realized what she actually said about conservatism:

Today's "conservatives" are futile, impotent and, culturally, dead. They have nothing to offer and can achieve nothing. They can only help to destroy intellectual standards, to disintegrate thought, to discredit capitalism, and to accelerate this country's uncontested collapse into despair and dictatorship.

Capitalism is not the system of the past; it is the system of the future-if mankind is to have a future. Those who wish to fight for it, must discard the title of "conservatives." "Conservatism" has always been a misleading name, inappropriate to America. Today, there is nothing left to "conserve": the established political philosophy, the intellectual orthodoxy, and the status quo are collectivism. Those who reject all the basic premises of collectivism are radicals in the proper sense of the word: "radical" means "fundamental." Today, the fighters for capitalism have to be, not bankrupt "conservatives," but new radicals, new intellectuals and, above all, new, dedicated moralists.


~Both from "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal".

/She's spinning in her grave because of the capitalists today, not jumping for joy in her coffin.
 
2012-08-14 10:08:47 PM  

Silly Jesus: This is the greater point that I was getting at up thread. Everyone thinks that they can just not read the book and form a reasoned opinion on her philosophy based on silly cartoons which would seem absurd to anyone who had actually read the damn thing.

Stupid cartoon is stup