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(New York Daily News)   Paul Ryan renounces Ayn Rand, like most readers did when they were 19   (nydailynews.com) divider line 420
    More: Obvious, Ayn Rand, Thomas Aquinas, WNYC, Mitt Romney  
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4410 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Aug 2012 at 6:25 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-14 09:32:33 PM

Omahawg: poor bastard is in omaha

[farm5.static.flickr.com image 500x375]

i got 25 pages into atlas shrugged once but then literally shrugged and said 'this is stupid and poorly written.'


I would run for city council in Omaha just to get that thoroughfare renamed.
 
2012-08-14 09:34:28 PM

Meethos: FlashHarry: "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

-- Paul Krugman

That's not Paul Krugman's btw.

It belongs to some guy named John Rogers


One of the comments to that article: "There are entire university courses and programs dedicated to studying her works [snark about Women's Studies, African American Studies etc. in 4...3...2...]; there is an active Ayn Rand Society chapter of 50+ members of the American Philosophical Association; Cambridge University Press is publishing an academic book on her ethics--adding to a growing bookshelf of academic books and articles on Objectivism; there are tenured professors who are self-described Objectivists [hey waitafugginminute, I thought Ivory Tower Intellectuals were all libruls!]; Objectivist scholars are regularly interviewed on TV shows--often several times per week [citation needed]."
 
2012-08-14 09:35:57 PM

Silly Jesus: Without Fail: The following are true statements that can be easily verified.

Paul Ryan has stated repeatedly that Ayn Rand is an inspiration to him. He strongly admires her philosophy and credits her with influencing him more than all others... he recently required that his aides read her work. This admiration is well documented.

Ayn Rand stated repeatedly that William Edward Hickman was an inspiration to her. She strongly admired his philosophy and based a major character on him... because he kidnapped, murdered, eviscerated and dismembered a twelve year old girl for money. This admiration was well documented.

The Republican candidate for vice-president is the same Paul Ryan. Be afraid.
He was hand picked after careful research by Mitt Romney. Be very afraid.

Keep farkin that chicken.

In 1928, the writer Ayn Rand began planning a novel called The Little Street, whose hero, Danny Renahan, was to be based on "what Hickman suggested to [her]." The novel was never finished, but Rand wrote notes for it which were published after her death in the book Journals of Ayn Rand. Rand wanted the hero of her novel to be "A Hickman with a purpose. And without the degeneracy. It is more exact to say that the model is not Hickman, but what Hickman suggested to me."[3] Rand scholars Chris Matthew Sciabarra and Jennifer Burns both interpret Rand's interest in Hickman as a sign of her early admiration of the ideas of Friedrich Nietzsche, especially since she several times referred to Hickman as a "Superman" (in the Nietzschean sense).[4][5]

Link

You are right, on the most base level. The level that a 5 year old just learning to read would interpret her thoughts and actions vis-a-vis Hickman.

You have any criticisms of her actual work, or do you just enjoy asinine talking points?


She's a farking hypocrite. That's all you need to know, dimwit.
 
2012-08-14 09:39:19 PM

FlashHarry: i waded through the fountainhead when i was 15 or so. i tried atlas shrugged, but gave up a third of the way through. it was just so badly written.


No, see, it wasn't that Atlas Shrugged was badly written ... it's just that your mom was drinking (and probably smoking) when she was pregnant with you. Your brain isn't obviously "Down-ee", but it is.
 
2012-08-14 09:41:12 PM

enry: Had a friend in college who had as his .sig "Who is John Galt?"

Finally got around to asking him WTF John Galt was and he just kept saying "exactly!".

That and the Bob the Angry Flower is all I care to know about her writings.


Much as is the case with Karl Marx, Jesus and Muhammad, the worst advertisement for Ayn Rand is Randroids.
 
2012-08-14 09:43:47 PM
Her non-fiction seems marginally more readable.
Not particularly solid philosophy, mind you. But at least the screeds in Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal and The Virtue of Selfishness were shorter and stand alone.

I've wondered a few times if Neil Stephenson wrote "Diamond Age" in part as a rebuttal to some of her work.
 
2012-08-14 09:45:21 PM

Lando Lincoln: HellRaisingHoosier: Is this legitimately what the book is about? I've never read it, or even a summary of it. We need to figure out a way to make all the bankers and CEO's leave. They've been farking a lot of shiat up.

Here's a much more thorough and undoubtedly accurate summary of it. Even the summary is extremely tedious. Ayn Rand sucked as a writer.

SparkNotes: Atlas Shrugged


Jesus, that was almost as bad as the book.

/and i use the term 'book' loosely
//it's a bound collection of pages, mmmyes
 
2012-08-14 09:50:30 PM

sammyk: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Went through college and grad school and never heard of Rand or the related books. Did I miss something, or was it all just derpy?

The first I ever heard of it was from Machelle Malkin. I didn't bother looking into it any further. The cult like following it gets reminds me of The Turner Diaries.


This is the first I ever heard of her.

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-08-14 09:53:26 PM

Silly Jesus: Gimmick: The plot of Atlas Shrugged in 12 seconds.

HA! That's exactly like the moochers.


The moochers and looters are the people in Galt's Gulch. The start up capital for their society was gained by piracy of foreign aid. Sure, Ragnar and the others use the self serving justification that they are just stealing back the tax money that was stolen from them, but they are stealing aid that was paid for by the taxes of everyone in the country not only the people who move to the gulch. Ragnar even admits literally in the text of the book that he's stealing. He says he's a reverse robin hood who is stealing from the poor to give to teh rich. He adds the adjective "thieving" to "poor" to rationalize but all thieves rationalize their crimes. Their whole society is founded on stolen goods.

Galt and his followers have decided that they are the "productive" people and that by nature of being who they are deserve everything and fark everyone else. They decide they are special and so it is not only not wrong but it is completely righteous when they steal from everyone that isn't part of their self declared elite.
 
2012-08-14 09:53:49 PM
So he goes from Rand to Aquinas, well at least he's consistent, both were authors whose work should have been a lot shorter and who should've realized they were, after twenty pages on a single point, just droning on.
 
2012-08-14 09:54:45 PM
Hmmm... So many opinions about this book. I should read it. Let me go to Amazon, and...

"Mass Market Paperback: 1088 pages"

Fark your mother.
 
2012-08-14 10:00:44 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Silly Jesus: Lionel Mandrake: Silly Jesus: Lionel Mandrake: Silly Jesus: Is this the thread where people who have never read a book, much less understand the basic ideas contained therein, bash it because that's what all the cool libtard trolls do?

*reads first 50 posts*

Yep, meets the Fark formula.

Carry on.

Is this the thread where some Randian shows up and issues a blank dismissal of criticism by simply assuming none of the critics have ever read Rand (because if they did, they would know what a great intellectual and writer she was)?

Yep, carry on

Yes, because a great deal of the comments don't begin with "I've never read or heard of Rand, but I think she's an idiot and her ideas are BS."


A "great deal?" How many? Out of the first 50? Can you point some out? What I see is mostly, I HAVE read Rand, and she is BS"

Hell, just point out ONE

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Went through college and grad school and never heard of Rand or the related books. Did I miss something, or was it all just derpy?

Second post in thread.

He was asking if it was bad, he did not say it was or that he hated it or Rand

I guess you have to play ignorant to back up your lie


Oh, I thought that the part where he states he hasn't read it, and then asks if it's all derpy, implied that he thought it was derpy without having read it. I should get my glasses checked, I guess. Derrrrp.
 
2012-08-14 10:01:33 PM
I read Atlas Shrugged in my 20's without knowing much about politics or objectivicsm and I enjoyed it. I guess I read it wrong because I thought the "leeches" were all the useless middlemen and bureaucrats like Dagny's brother. Applied today, I assumed it was the stupid paper-pushers on wall street who created nothing of value to which all companies seem to be slaves and self destruct in an effort to squeeze out an extra bucks for the shareholders.

Also read Fountainhead and thought that one was just about a guy who refused to compromise his ideals in favor of doing whatever was popular and I thought it was a good book and good message as well.

So in summation, they're good books if you're apparently a poor reader like me.
 
2012-08-14 10:02:40 PM

Jaws_Victim: So what? "I used to be a Titan of Steel manufacturing, now I bake bread! Oh how much better life is now that I'm not forced to give my recipe for stronger lighter steel to the world at large for its many uses! WHAT ABOUT MY PROFIT MARGIN?"


riveraveblues.com
 
2012-08-14 10:03:36 PM

DirkValentine: Silly Jesus: Without Fail: The following are true statements that can be easily verified.

Paul Ryan has stated repeatedly that Ayn Rand is an inspiration to him. He strongly admires her philosophy and credits her with influencing him more than all others... he recently required that his aides read her work. This admiration is well documented.

Ayn Rand stated repeatedly that William Edward Hickman was an inspiration to her. She strongly admired his philosophy and based a major character on him... because he kidnapped, murdered, eviscerated and dismembered a twelve year old girl for money. This admiration was well documented.

The Republican candidate for vice-president is the same Paul Ryan. Be afraid.
He was hand picked after careful research by Mitt Romney. Be very afraid.

Keep farkin that chicken.

In 1928, the writer Ayn Rand began planning a novel called The Little Street, whose hero, Danny Renahan, was to be based on "what Hickman suggested to [her]." The novel was never finished, but Rand wrote notes for it which were published after her death in the book Journals of Ayn Rand. Rand wanted the hero of her novel to be "A Hickman with a purpose. And without the degeneracy. It is more exact to say that the model is not Hickman, but what Hickman suggested to me."[3] Rand scholars Chris Matthew Sciabarra and Jennifer Burns both interpret Rand's interest in Hickman as a sign of her early admiration of the ideas of Friedrich Nietzsche, especially since she several times referred to Hickman as a "Superman" (in the Nietzschean sense).[4][5]

Link

You are right, on the most base level. The level that a 5 year old just learning to read would interpret her thoughts and actions vis-a-vis Hickman.

You have any criticisms of her actual work, or do you just enjoy asinine talking points?

She's a farking hypocrite. That's all you need to know, dimwit.


My feewings, you hurted them.
 
2012-08-14 10:04:53 PM

Silly Jesus: Oh, I thought that the part where he states he hasn't read it, and then asks if it's all derpy, implied that he thought it was derpy without having read it. I should get my glasses checked, I guess. Derrrrp.


Yes, asks. He also asks if he had missed something, so you could just as easily say he implied it was worth reading.

You're not helping to disprove the image of Randians as idiots.
 
2012-08-14 10:05:54 PM
Eh, he just realized what she actually said about conservatism:

Today's "conservatives" are futile, impotent and, culturally, dead. They have nothing to offer and can achieve nothing. They can only help to destroy intellectual standards, to disintegrate thought, to discredit capitalism, and to accelerate this country's uncontested collapse into despair and dictatorship.

Capitalism is not the system of the past; it is the system of the future-if mankind is to have a future. Those who wish to fight for it, must discard the title of "conservatives." "Conservatism" has always been a misleading name, inappropriate to America. Today, there is nothing left to "conserve": the established political philosophy, the intellectual orthodoxy, and the status quo are collectivism. Those who reject all the basic premises of collectivism are radicals in the proper sense of the word: "radical" means "fundamental." Today, the fighters for capitalism have to be, not bankrupt "conservatives," but new radicals, new intellectuals and, above all, new, dedicated moralists.


~Both from "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal".

/She's spinning in her grave because of the capitalists today, not jumping for joy in her coffin.
 
2012-08-14 10:08:47 PM

Silly Jesus: This is the greater point that I was getting at up thread. Everyone thinks that they can just not read the book and form a reasoned opinion on her philosophy based on silly cartoons which would seem absurd to anyone who had actually read the damn thing.

Stupid cartoon is stupid.


"This is not a novel to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force." -- Dorothy Parker
 
2012-08-14 10:09:01 PM
Criticisms of the philosophy aside, you do not interrupt the narrative of your story for 300 pages of manifesto.

Atlas Shrugged breaks one of the cardinals rules of fiction - "Show, don't tell"

And that's not even bringing up the terrible dialog and one dimensional characters.
 
2012-08-14 10:09:39 PM

Thrag: Silly Jesus: Gimmick: The plot of Atlas Shrugged in 12 seconds.

HA! That's exactly like the moochers.

The moochers and looters are the people in Galt's Gulch. The start up capital for their society was gained by piracy of foreign aid. Sure, Ragnar and the others use the self serving justification that they are just stealing back the tax money that was stolen from them, but they are stealing aid that was paid for by the taxes of everyone in the country not only the people who move to the gulch. Ragnar even admits literally in the text of the book that he's stealing. He says he's a reverse robin hood who is stealing from the poor to give to teh rich. He adds the adjective "thieving" to "poor" to rationalize but all thieves rationalize their crimes. Their whole society is founded on stolen goods.

Galt and his followers have decided that they are the "productive" people and that by nature of being who they are deserve everything and fark everyone else. They decide they are special and so it is not only not wrong but it is completely righteous when they steal from everyone that isn't part of their self declared elite.


"What I actually am, Mr. Rearden, is a policeman. It is a policeman's duty to protect men from criminals-criminals being those who seize wealth by force. It is a policeman's duty to retrieve stolen property and return it to its owners. But when robbery becomes the purpose of the law, and the policeman's duty becomes, not the protection, but the plunder of property-then it is an outlaw who has to become a policeman." - Ragnar Danneskjöld
 
2012-08-14 10:11:59 PM
So, Rachel Maddow just tore him apart by showing multiple videos of Ryan praising Ayn Rand and declaring that we were living in a Rand novel. It was amusing.
 
2012-08-14 10:12:30 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Silly Jesus: Oh, I thought that the part where he states he hasn't read it, and then asks if it's all derpy, implied that he thought it was derpy without having read it. I should get my glasses checked, I guess. Derrrrp.

Yes, asks. He also asks if he had missed something, so you could just as easily say he implied it was worth reading.

You're not helping to disprove the image of Randians as idiots.


Yes, anyone who puts any value in her philosophy is an absolute idiot. Your intellect is vastly superior. I tremble in the presence of your tumescent brain. You have truly put me in my place. I now bow to you my lord.
 
2012-08-14 10:19:17 PM

Silly Jesus: Lionel Mandrake: Silly Jesus: Oh, I thought that the part where he states he hasn't read it, and then asks if it's all derpy, implied that he thought it was derpy without having read it. I should get my glasses checked, I guess. Derrrrp.

Yes, asks. He also asks if he had missed something, so you could just as easily say he implied it was worth reading.

You're not helping to disprove the image of Randians as idiots.

Yes, anyone who puts any value in her philosophy is an absolute idiot. Your intellect is vastly superior. I tremble in the presence of your tumescent brain. You have truly put me in my place. I now bow to you my lord.


You're pretty smug for a guy who doesn't know the difference between a declarative statement and a question.

By the way, I never expressed my opinion of Rand or her works in this thread, so your attacks on me are pretty childish.

You really need to stop making shiat up. It's more grown-up to debate people on the points they make, not the points you wish they had made.
 
2012-08-14 10:20:53 PM

rtaylor92: I read Atlas Shrugged in my 20's without knowing much about politics or objectivicsm and I enjoyed it. I guess I read it wrong because I thought the "leeches" were all the useless middlemen and bureaucrats like Dagny's brother. Applied today, I assumed it was the stupid paper-pushers on wall street who created nothing of value to which all companies seem to be slaves and self destruct in an effort to squeeze out an extra bucks for the shareholders.

Also read Fountainhead and thought that one was just about a guy who refused to compromise his ideals in favor of doing whatever was popular and I thought it was a good book and good message as well.

So in summation, they're good books if you're apparently a poor reader like me.


Likewise, I thought Animal Farm was generalized political satire - pretty much all political systems like to claim that all are equal, and they all end up with some more equal than others. Or maybe I didn't know enough about the Soviet Union to catch the allusions (though the animals calling one another "Comrade" should have been enough of a clue).
 
2012-08-14 10:24:54 PM

twat_waffle: Teufelaffe: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Went through college and grad school and never heard of Rand or the related books. Did I miss something, or was it all just derpy?

It's pretty derpy. Bad writing and the purest form of the "I've got mine, fark you" philosophy. If you're in the mood for an author with Objectivist leanings, try The Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind. Much better writing, and he manages to hide his "Individualism GOOOD, collectivism BAAAD" pretty well until the fourth or fifth book.

That was my experience. However, his villains and heroes are all caricatures. Even in the first book. Richard Cypher/Rahl was a paragon of virtue while Darken Rahl was so unbelievably evil just for the sake of being evil.

I think it was the fifth book (Soul of the Fire) where the Objectivism became apparent, and the next one (Faith of the Fallen) was Terry Goodkind's attempt to beat his readers over the head with Atlas Shrugged. Seeing that Goodkind was heavily influenced by Ayn Rand affected the quality of the entire series, even those books where it isn't apparent.

/read the entire series.
//sucked after Temple of the Winds
///got even worse after Chainfire
////barely finished the series
//unemployment gave me a lot of free time


Faith of the Fallen is where I gave up on the series because at that point Goodkind didn'd give a shait about his characters and wanted to bash you over the head with the "message".
 
2012-08-14 10:25:15 PM
What really amazes me to no end is politicians disavowing their convictions in an age when every little statement is recorded, catalogued, and indexed to be regurgitated with a few mouse clicks.

I am really looking forward to the Obama attack adds where Mitt Romney introduces "the next president of the United States." That's for the lulz.
 
2012-08-14 10:26:15 PM
Ayn Rand's best album was 2112. Everything after that sucked balls.
 
2012-08-14 10:26:46 PM

Gaseous Anomaly: Likewise, I thought Animal Farm was generalized political satire


Animal Farm was actually a very specific critique of Stalinism. Orwell was a committed socialist and was very angry at what he saw as the betrayal of the original revolutionary ideals of the October Revolution - The Old Major represents Lenin, Napoleon represents Stalin, Snowball represents Trotsky etc.
 
2012-08-14 10:28:40 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Silly Jesus: Lionel Mandrake: Silly Jesus: Oh, I thought that the part where he states he hasn't read it, and then asks if it's all derpy, implied that he thought it was derpy without having read it. I should get my glasses checked, I guess. Derrrrp.

Yes, asks. He also asks if he had missed something, so you could just as easily say he implied it was worth reading.

You're not helping to disprove the image of Randians as idiots.

Yes, anyone who puts any value in her philosophy is an absolute idiot. Your intellect is vastly superior. I tremble in the presence of your tumescent brain. You have truly put me in my place. I now bow to you my lord.

You're pretty smug for a guy who doesn't know the difference between a declarative statement and a question.

By the way, I never expressed my opinion of Rand or her works in this thread, so your attacks on me are pretty childish.

You really need to stop making shiat up. It's more grown-up to debate people on the points they make, not the points you wish they had made.


Farkied.

Good day.
 
2012-08-14 10:29:29 PM

Silly Jesus: Lionel Mandrake: Silly Jesus: Oh, I thought that the part where he states he hasn't read it, and then asks if it's all derpy, implied that he thought it was derpy without having read it. I should get my glasses checked, I guess. Derrrrp.

Yes, asks. He also asks if he had missed something, so you could just as easily say he implied it was worth reading.

You're not helping to disprove the image of Randians as idiots.

Yes, anyone who puts any value in her philosophy is an absolute idiot. Your intellect is vastly superior. I tremble in the presence of your tumescent brain. You have truly put me in my place. I now bow to you my lord.


I put value in her philosophy. I think we all do.

What we're questioning is why you're assigning a value to the right of the y-axis.
 
2012-08-14 10:29:43 PM

Snapper Carr: Criticisms of the philosophy aside, you do not interrupt the narrative of your story for 300 pages of manifesto.

Atlas Shrugged breaks one of the cardinals rules of fiction - "Show, don't tell"

And that's not even bringing up the terrible dialog and one dimensional characters.


I guess that's why they're finishing the movies. The third one is just going to be a guy yelling into the camera for 2 hours and 20 minutes.

You can shoot that for next to nothing.
 
2012-08-14 10:30:42 PM

Ghastly: I'd rather read a thousand farking elf songs by J.R.R. Tolkien than one chapter of Ayn Rand's crap.


"I'm going to sing a thousand verses of Ragtime..."
-Jerry Garcia

"No."
-Me

/apropos of nuttin'
//loves me some dead.
 
2012-08-14 10:34:08 PM
People still read this ego-stroking dreck meant for white middle-class basement dwellers?
 
2012-08-14 10:40:00 PM

Ghastly: That's because very few people can get through more than a few chapters of he crap before giving up. Not even the derpiest libertarians can get through an entire book of hers without skipping through a lot of the crap. In that regard she is very like Tolkien (nobody reads the farking elf songs).


Elbereth gilthoniel, mutherfarker.
 
2012-08-14 10:41:09 PM

Silly Jesus: Thrag: Silly Jesus: Gimmick: The plot of Atlas Shrugged in 12 seconds.

HA! That's exactly like the moochers.

The moochers and looters are the people in Galt's Gulch. The start up capital for their society was gained by piracy of foreign aid. Sure, Ragnar and the others use the self serving justification that they are just stealing back the tax money that was stolen from them, but they are stealing aid that was paid for by the taxes of everyone in the country not only the people who move to the gulch. Ragnar even admits literally in the text of the book that he's stealing. He says he's a reverse robin hood who is stealing from the poor to give to teh rich. He adds the adjective "thieving" to "poor" to rationalize but all thieves rationalize their crimes. Their whole society is founded on stolen goods.

Galt and his followers have decided that they are the "productive" people and that by nature of being who they are deserve everything and fark everyone else. They decide they are special and so it is not only not wrong but it is completely righteous when they steal from everyone that isn't part of their self declared elite.

"What I actually am, Mr. Rearden, is a policeman. It is a policeman's duty to protect men from criminals-criminals being those who seize wealth by force. It is a policeman's duty to retrieve stolen property and return it to its owners. But when robbery becomes the purpose of the law, and the policeman's duty becomes, not the protection, but the plunder of property-then it is an outlaw who has to become a policeman." - Ragnar Danneskjöld


Yep, that's his bullshiat spin he uses to rationalize his crimes. Thanks for providing a quote to help prove my point. He's appointed himself to this role where he is superior and by nature of that superiority he is allowed to steal from others. Of course he doesn't return the "stolen property" to its owners, he keeps it all from himself and his cronies. He assumes everyone outside his gang doesn't deserve squat but he and his buddies in the gulch deserve everything.

Hey, if you've got the text handy can you also post this "...I'm the robin hood who steals from the poor..." bit too. Pretty much everything you can post about good old Ragnar reinforces the massive hypocrisy of Galt's merry band of looters.
 
2012-08-14 10:43:37 PM

Pocket Ninja: I'm willing to bet quite a bit of money that if you selected, at random, any 10 individuals who have ever posted in a thread about Ayn Rand (either favorably or unfavorably), locked them in a room without any pre-warning or internet access, and then asked them each to provide a 2-minute summary of "Atlas Shrugged," no more than 2 or 3 would be able to do so.

The percentage will go up slightly higher for books by Orwell, but not by much.


Love your posts!
Haven't read either story in years.

/wife got me some.scotch for our anniversary

On topic...people who spend time worrying so much about politics, as we all do in this tab, need to just accept how incredible it is that we have come so far in so short of a time that we have the ability to debate the inane shiat of life with each other. From around the globe.
Right/Left labels dont mean shiat if you look and focus on the larger accomplishments. Why focus on petty shiat?
We are incredible.
For all of our differences, accept this, focus on this.

We are incredible.

We. Rock.
 
2012-08-14 10:44:19 PM

YoungSwedishBlonde: People still read this ego-stroking dreck meant for white middle-class basement dwellers?


It got a re-surgience a few years ago. Mainly from Beckerheads and other Republicans that had to suddenly pretend to care about being concerned about the economy.
 
2012-08-14 10:45:32 PM

Pocket Ninja: I'm willing to bet quite a bit of money that if you selected, at random, any 10 individuals who have ever posted in a thread about Ayn Rand (either favorably or unfavorably), locked them in a room without any pre-warning or internet access, and then asked them each to provide a 2-minute summary of "Atlas Shrugged," no more than 2 or 3 would be able to do so.


Okay, testing myself on this one without reading the rest of the thread since I've never read the whole thing, but just read key chapters and a chunk of the monologue:

Geniuses worldover start vanishing. Dagny Taggart, a brilliant industrialist who inherited her father's company starts looking for them, driven by the exciting mention of the name John Galt. John Galt has been cleverly luring brilliant people away from the normal humdrum and letting society collapse because without them, everything falls apart. High-speed rail is the industry of interest to Dagny, because... her company makes Steel, I think. She bonks her way through a variety of different men, ranging from Morality Lesson Mistake to Strangely Sociopathically Perfect, and eventually falls in love with John Galt in a plot that features a massive train crash full of Average People because they didn't have Dagny Wonderful Taggart saving them from themselves, John Galt eventually hijacks the radio station and spends four hundred pages give or take explaining to everyone how capitalism is the best thing ever and there's nothing creepy about wanting to fark a serial killer who guts twelve year olds.

I think at the very end, John Galt is executed or something, and society collapses into ruin with all the normal average people dying, and only the Experts and the Brilliants standing in their Galt's Gulch that's fine and wonderful forever.

How badly did I mess up?
 
2012-08-14 10:46:06 PM

meat0918: Maybe he should read Dune and form his philosophy around that...

It'd be less derpy too.


I'd vote for the first politician that claimed to be a friend of Jamis.
 
2012-08-14 10:48:50 PM

Pocket Ninja: I'm willing to bet quite a bit of money that if you selected, at random, any 10 individuals who have ever posted in a thread about Ayn Rand (either favorably or unfavorably), locked them in a room without any pre-warning or internet access, and then asked them each to provide a 2-minute summary of "Atlas Shrugged," no more than 2 or 3 would be able to do so.

The percentage will go up slightly higher for books by Orwell, but not by much.


I disagree about Orwell. 1984 and Animal Farm are both engaging novels with good characters and gripping plots. I expect that many people could tell you about Winston and Julia and the ministry of truth and Boxer and Napolean and Squealer.

I tried to read Atlas Shrugged but it reminded me of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance - gives you a basic plot and characters and then procedes to preach boring nonsense at you until you put it down half way through and ask yourself why you wasted the time.
 
2012-08-14 10:49:46 PM

Jack Mackbell: When Upton Sinclaire wrote his thinly veiled polemic of how great communism was, he wrote about interesting characters that engaged us in their conflict. Rand couldn't even set her books in the real world.


Something something scientology...
 
2012-08-14 10:49:52 PM
Oooh!! Ooooh! This is too good!

So, Paul Ryan says:"If somebody is going to try to paste a person's view on epistemology to me, then give me Thomas Aquinas," who believed that man needs divine help in the pursuit of knowledge. "Don't give me Ayn Rand,"

Then, if you do a google search for "Thomas Aquinis the poor," and do a little cross referencing, you can find this in under 3 minutes:

On the contrary, In cases of need all things are common property, so that there would seem to be no sin in taking another's property, for need has made it common.

I answer that, Things which are of human right cannot derogate from natural right or Divine right. Now according to the natural order established by Divine Providence, inferior things are ordained for the purpose of succoring man's needs by their means. Wherefore the division and appropriation of things which are based on human law, do not preclude the fact that man's needs have to be remedied by means of these very things. Hence whatever certain people have in superabundance is due, by natural law, to the purpose of succoring the poor. For this reason Ambrose says, and his words are embodied in the Decretals (Dist. xlvii, can. Sicut ii): "It is the hungry man's bread that you withhold, the naked man's cloak that you store away, the money that you bury in the earth is the price of the poor man's ransom and freedom."
-Summa Theologica, Question 66

Let that sink in for a moment.
 
2012-08-14 10:50:50 PM
Now Lawrence O'Donnell is ripping him for his "Yes, I read her books and they influenced my views on philosophy but I didn't learn about objectivism until later and it's bad because it's atheist" interview.
 
2012-08-14 10:53:09 PM

Silly Jesus: Is this the thread where people who have never read a book, much less understand the basic ideas contained therein, bash it because that's what all the cool libtard trolls do?

*reads first 50 posts*

Yep, meets the Fark formula.

Carry on.


You're right. I've never read a word by Ayn Rand.

I did, however, slog through The Turner Diaries, and I can honestly say that I did not become any better a person for it. So, I'll not bother with Rand.
 
2012-08-14 10:53:23 PM
Thought experiment: imagine if Obama or Biden loved the works of a Russian atheist. What would Fox News say about the matter?
 
2012-08-14 10:54:58 PM

Pocket Ninja: I'm willing to bet quite a bit of money that if you selected, at random, any 10 individuals who have ever posted in a thread about Ayn Rand (either favorably or unfavorably), locked them in a room without any pre-warning or internet access, and then asked them each to provide a 2-minute summary of "Atlas Shrugged," no more than 2 or 3 would be able to do so.

The percentage will go up slightly higher for books by Orwell, but not by much.

Atlas Shrugged

is a novel in which Ayn Rynd lays out her main ideals on egocentrism as the driving force of the world, using a semi-Heroic Journey pattern with dystopic settings and themes.

/Less than two minutes, but it's what the average writer needs to know.
 
2012-08-14 10:56:40 PM

Silly Jesus: Thrag: Silly Jesus: Gimmick: The plot of Atlas Shrugged in 12 seconds.

HA! That's exactly like the moochers.

The moochers and looters are the people in Galt's Gulch. The start up capital for their society was gained by piracy of foreign aid. Sure, Ragnar and the others use the self serving justification that they are just stealing back the tax money that was stolen from them, but they are stealing aid that was paid for by the taxes of everyone in the country not only the people who move to the gulch. Ragnar even admits literally in the text of the book that he's stealing. He says he's a reverse robin hood who is stealing from the poor to give to teh rich. He adds the adjective "thieving" to "poor" to rationalize but all thieves rationalize their crimes. Their whole society is founded on stolen goods.

Galt and his followers have decided that they are the "productive" people and that by nature of being who they are deserve everything and fark everyone else. They decide they are special and so it is not only not wrong but it is completely righteous when they steal from everyone that isn't part of their self declared elite.

"What I actually am, Mr. Rearden, is a policeman. It is a policeman's duty to protect men from criminals-criminals being those who seize wealth by force. It is a policeman's duty to retrieve stolen property and return it to its owners. But when robbery becomes the purpose of the law, and the policeman's duty becomes, not the protection, but the plunder of property-then it is an outlaw who has to become a policeman." - Ragnar Danneskjöld


So your response to Thrag pointing out that Ragnar is a thief who is full of lazy rationalizations... is to quote Ragnar's lazy rationalizations. Brilliant.
 
2012-08-14 10:56:46 PM

Martian_Astronomer: -Summa Theologica, Question 66


Okay, I screwed up the reference: It's actually Summa Theologica, II-II, Q 66.
 
2012-08-14 11:05:51 PM
Paul Ryan is forced to renounce the atheistic ways of his fave writer Ayn Rand in order to appease the GOP God Squad?

Yeah, cos forced conversions usually go so well.

Pretty sure he remains a closet Randroid and will remain one until some point where he actually grows up.

Not holding my breath waiting, just saying.

Couple of things. First, Ayn Rand was a truly gawd-awful writer.

Unbelievable characters in unrealistic situation spouting overlong unnatural screeds in order to try and justify greed and deny the reality of interdependence.

A celebration of selfishness and sociopaths that became the basis for Levayan Satanism in the US.

I get that she was a Russian emigre who feared the US turning into the USSR but her fears like her philosophy were unfounded.

Anthem was barely readable dystopean fiction that was apparently ripped off of another writer and the rest of her work is pure drek.

Ayn Rand is to Literature as the Vogons are to Poetry.

That all noted, Pocket Ninja rawks. Seriously well done, PN.
 
2012-08-14 11:08:58 PM
America is the only country that could take "wah! they took my daddies company so those communists are the debil" ethos and raise it to literature. It's a disgrace, and is very telling how damaged the US is even in what some consider intellectual circles.
 
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