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(New York Daily News)   Paul Ryan renounces Ayn Rand, like most readers did when they were 19   (nydailynews.com) divider line 420
    More: Obvious, Ayn Rand, Thomas Aquinas, WNYC, Mitt Romney  
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4410 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Aug 2012 at 6:25 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-14 06:39:34 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Went through college and grad school and never heard of Rand or the related books. Did I miss something, or was it all just derpy?


It's pretty derpy. Bad writing and the purest form of the "I've got mine, fark you" philosophy. If you're in the mood for an author with Objectivist leanings, try The Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind. Much better writing, and he manages to hide his "Individualism GOOOD, collectivism BAAAD" pretty well until the fourth or fifth book.
 
2012-08-14 06:39:36 PM
"I reject her philosophy," Ryan says firmly. "It's an atheist philosophy. It reduces human interactions down to mere contracts and it is antithetical to my worldview. If somebody is going to try to paste a person's view on epistemology to me, then give me Thomas Aquinas," who believed that man needs divine help in the pursuit of knowledge. "Don't give me Ayn Rand," he says.

Bullshiat. While people's views do evolve over time, he is quite clearly just telling people what they want to hear. Aquinas' ramblings are just as incoherent as Rand, there is no way he picked that up and then somehow concluded that Ayn Rand is wrong. Nor does he even explain how his view changed or even admit that he was once in love with Randian philosophy. Come on, even Romney has more backbone than that, he isn't suddenly claiming he's not Mormon just to score votes.
 
2012-08-14 06:39:48 PM

Dalrint: Because a man who would cast aside a lifetime of belief for a moment of power is the kind of man I would the trust the future to.

/No, I don't like Rand.
//But he's been her disciple for his entire adult life.
///What will he cast aside next?


His House seat?
 
2012-08-14 06:40:11 PM
Romney wants to convince everyone he's not the liberal he used to be, and now we have running mate who wants to convince everyone he's not the conservative he used to be.
 
2012-08-14 06:40:56 PM

randomjsa: Yes, people grow up and embrace reality. Except the people who read socialist and communist literature, they never do.

Then we elect them president and wonder why people who never grew up make such lousy presidents.

Hopefully we can put an adult back in the WH in November.


thesidewedge.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-08-14 06:41:27 PM

coeyagi: Ayn Rand Paul Ryan Gosling will be the name of my first child.

He will be a chain-smoking atheist Catholic optometrist with incredible abs and a shriveled up heartless dick who believes the gold standard and objectivism will be the saviors of humanity.

//so proud already


I thought child abuse was illegal?
 
2012-08-14 06:41:49 PM
You know who else got rid of their Master in their ambition to become more powerful?

img2-1.timeinc.net

Darth Grannystarver is just following in that tradition. Ayn would have been SO proud!
 
2012-08-14 06:42:39 PM

Confabulat: If you're going to feed me crap, make it entertaining crap. Rand couldn't even do that. I felt like taking a shower to get that book off me when I was done. Horrible characters, horrible philosophy, just a total disaster of a book. I have heard Atlas Shrugged is better but I'd probably prefer just taking an icepick to my eyeballs rather than try.


its not, its just as poorly written. at one point she had a character monologueing, and it was just repeating the same points over and over and over and over. so i decided to flip forward to see where it ended. it was another 40 something pages of a small print paperback.

even outside of the philosphy, its a terribly written book.
 
2012-08-14 06:45:15 PM

Ghastly: I'd rather read a thousand farking elf songs by J.R.R. Tolkien than one chapter of Ayn Rand's crap.


Actually, Anthem isn't bad. It's pretty standard early 20th century dystopian sci-fi - not on the level of Huxley or Orwell but it has its moments. Everything else? Yeah...don't bother.
 
2012-08-14 06:46:40 PM

tlchwi02: Confabulat: If you're going to feed me crap, make it entertaining crap. Rand couldn't even do that. I felt like taking a shower to get that book off me when I was done. Horrible characters, horrible philosophy, just a total disaster of a book. I have heard Atlas Shrugged is better but I'd probably prefer just taking an icepick to my eyeballs rather than try.

its not, its just as poorly written. at one point she had a character monologueing, and it was just repeating the same points over and over and over and over. so i decided to flip forward to see where it ended. it was another 40 something pages of a small print paperback.

even outside of the philosphy, its a terribly written book.


oh no doubt Rand needed a very good editor to help her beat that book into shape. I think it could have been a pretty decent story if edited down to something reasonable. OOoooo! how about we rewrite it but go with a dash of George R. R. Martin! bodies EVERYWHERE! and Dagny ends up chanting the names of everyone she wants revenge against every night until she falls asleep....John Galt as the face changing assassin....it could work!
 
2012-08-14 06:47:52 PM
I read Atlas Shrugged in it's entirety.

Award please.

Seriously, you could edit it down to a dozen pages of socio-political commentary and leave out the endless monotony of head bashing illustrative examples and didactic soliloquies. It's a paiful read. If ever there was a call for only reading the Cliff Notes, this is that book.

And while I think there is *some* limited merit in some parts of objectivism as a socio-economic principle, it is a truly, truly. horrific way to guide your personal life. And watching the 'heroine' hop into the arms of whoever is the most advantageous man at the time makes Twilight's Bella seem like an empowered femenist role model.
 
2012-08-14 06:48:30 PM

timujin: Neither Rand, nor any Objectivist I've met, truly understood/understand* one of the core tenets of their philosophy, rational self-interest.

.
.
.
*how exactly are you supposed to switch between tenses when talking about both the living and the dead?



There's only one person I can think of that's come close to being a true Objectivist...

cdn.ifanboy.com

Seriously, Ditko designed The Question and an earlier character. Mr. A (named after the logical and Objectivist principal of 'A is A'), on the ideas of Objectivism. Regardless of environment or 'justifications', a criminal is still a criminal and must be punished. Those who try to rationalize their crimes are denying the personal responsibility of the choice they made; the Question and Mr. A remind the criminals of this fact.
 
2012-08-14 06:49:25 PM
The thing I always fail to understand about Rand is how intellectually bankrupt do you have to be to have books like The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged that are in all ways paeans to direct action, collective action and the wildcat strike and try with any seriousness to use them to argue against those very things?

Maybe it's just that Ayn Rand wasn't a very good writer and didn't realize her entire premise was intellectually bankrupt, and no amount of whining and having Galt draw dollar signs in the air with his cock would legitimize it?
 
2012-08-14 06:50:21 PM
Her grave in Westchester, NY makes a great place to piss if your ever on a road trip.
 
2012-08-14 06:51:00 PM
"The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand," - Paul Ryan (2005)

"I grew up reading Ayn Rand and it taught me quite a bit about who I am and what my value systems are," he told the group, adding, "It's inspired me so much that it's required reading in my office for all my interns and my staff." - Paul Ryan (2005)

"I give out 'Atlas Shrugged' as Christmas presents." - Paul Ryan (2007)

"What's unique about what's happening today in government, in the world, in America, is that it's as if we're living in an Ayn Rand novel right now," Ryan said in a series of videos posted to Facebook in 2009. "I think Ayn Rand did the best job of anybody to build a moral case of capitalism, and that morality of capitalism is under assault." - Paul Ryan (2009)

"I, like millions of young people in America, read Rand's novels when I was young. I enjoyed them," he said. "...[but] I reject her philosophy." - Paul Ryan (2012)

so.....he was young in 2009, but now he's much more mature?

Dear Congressman Ryan,

THE INTERNET DOES NOT FORGET. Also, fark you, you farking liar.
 
2012-08-14 06:51:04 PM

RoyFokker'sGhost: There's only one person I can think of that's come close to being a true Objectivist...


Also Rorschach
3.bp.blogspot.com

Although in Fairness, Moore based Rorschach on the Question anyway, so....
 
2012-08-14 06:51:38 PM

BojanglesPaladin: I read Atlas Shrugged in it's entirety.

Award please.

Seriously, you could edit it down to a dozen pages of socio-political commentary and leave out the endless monotony of head bashing illustrative examples and didactic soliloquies. It's a paiful read. If ever there was a call for only reading the Cliff Notes, this is that book.

And while I think there is *some* limited merit in some parts of objectivism as a socio-economic principle, it is a truly, truly. horrific way to guide your personal life. And watching the 'heroine' hop into the arms of whoever is the most advantageous man at the time makes Twilight's Bella seem like an empowered femenist role model.


Wow. That's pretty brutal. I had considered reading it. I think I'll find a cliff notes and peruse, instead.
 
2012-08-14 06:51:53 PM
I read The Fountainhead, only it was called The Sword of Truth and was rapey-er. It was also written by a strange thin woman, but this one had a ponytail and a penchant for tight turtlenecks but the books was also terrible.
 
2012-08-14 06:53:08 PM
A man chooses. A slave obeys. Good for Ryan. I plan on moving to his undersea land any day now.
 
2012-08-14 06:54:01 PM
If you're going to be fascinated with fiction writers couldn't they at least be entertaining? I don't agree with much of Heinlein or Pournelle but at least they knew how to carry a story.
 
2012-08-14 06:54:24 PM

Snapper Carr: Actually, Anthem isn't bad. It's pretty standard early 20th century dystopian sci-fi - not on the level of Huxley or Orwell but it has its moments. Everything else? Yeah...don't bother.


Also, Anthem is a 100-page novella, which is downright palatable compared to thousand-page snorefests like The Fountainshrugged.
 
2012-08-14 06:54:33 PM

Lando Lincoln: Atlas Shrugged is about this superhuman business guy named John Galt who was super awesome at everything he did and one day he just checked out of society because he was tired of all of the mindless bureaucratic red-tape regulations and union bullshiat that surrounds running a business in a modern society like ours. And people freaked out because without John Galt around, everything was going to shiat. And then other really important business tycoons did the same thing. And then all of the union workers and politicians were really sad and miserable and jobless, because the super awesome job creators weren't around to lead them to prosperity and super awesome living. So the moral of the story is, keep sucking rich guy dick or they'll fark you in the ass.



Is this legitimately what the book is about? I've never read it, or even a summary of it. We need to figure out a way tomake all the bankers and CEO's leave. They've been farking a lot of shiat up.

Employee 1: "Dude the CEO just up and left"
Employee 2: "Well the company was doing badly so he was about to lay some of us off. I guess we can use his multi-million dollar benefits, stocks and paychecks to maintain, build and expand the company."
Employee 1: "But who is going to lead us?"
Employee 2: "We're Americans, we'll figure it out on our own and in a democratic fashion. We're educated, we're not afraid of losing our jobs and we now know that any additional profit from the business will go directly into our checking accounts. I think we'll be okay."
Employee 1: "We should have done this years ago!"
 
2012-08-14 06:55:03 PM
AYN RAND PAUL!


/Got nothin'
 
2012-08-14 06:55:42 PM
In reality, are you an Ayn Rand fan if you receive hundreds of thousands of dollars in government subsidy? I suppose it's okay because Ayn Rand herself went on Social Security.
 
2012-08-14 06:55:44 PM

RoyFokker'sGhost: Seriously, Ditko designed The Question and an earlier character. Mr. A (named after the logical and Objectivist principal of 'A is A'), on the ideas of Objectivism. Regardless of environment or 'justifications', a criminal is still a criminal and must be punished. Those who try to rationalize their crimes are denying the personal responsibility of the choice they made; the Question and Mr. A remind the criminals of this fact.


Mr. A would go around killing people for the mere slightest of infractions. He was more stringent and twice as punitive as Santabot. If you had the tiniest moral imperfection, BAM! into the "Evil" category you go, and the penalty was DEATH!

What these Randian types seem to overlook is "let the punishment fit the crime". Do we simply give the shoplifter a couple months in jail to think about the error of their ways, or do we "EXECUTE ALL THE THINGS!"?

i291.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-14 06:56:03 PM

HellRaisingHoosier: Lando Lincoln: Atlas Shrugged is about this superhuman business guy named John Galt who was super awesome at everything he did and one day he just checked out of society because he was tired of all of the mindless bureaucratic red-tape regulations and union bullshiat that surrounds running a business in a modern society like ours. And people freaked out because without John Galt around, everything was going to shiat. And then other really important business tycoons did the same thing. And then all of the union workers and politicians were really sad and miserable and jobless, because the super awesome job creators weren't around to lead them to prosperity and super awesome living. So the moral of the story is, keep sucking rich guy dick or they'll fark you in the ass.


Is this legitimately what the book is about? I've never read it, or even a summary of it. We need to figure out a way tomake all the bankers and CEO's leave. They've been farking a lot of shiat up.

Employee 1: "Dude the CEO just up and left"
Employee 2: "Well the company was doing badly so he was about to lay some of us off. I guess we can use his multi-million dollar benefits, stocks and paychecks to maintain, build and expand the company."
Employee 1: "But who is going to lead us?"
Employee 2: "We're Americans, we'll figure it out on our own and in a democratic fashion. We're educated, we're not afraid of losing our jobs and we now know that any additional profit from the business will go directly into our checking accounts. I think we'll be okay."
Employee 1: "We should have done this years ago!"


This! This this this a thousand times farking this. People need to wake up and understand that the hierarchical corporate model is nothing but a legal pyramid scheme, and it's unnecessary.
 
2012-08-14 06:56:06 PM
Wow, I actually respected this guy although I disagreed with him. Now he's just a liar or gave up on the very thing that got him into public service. What a joke.
 
2012-08-14 06:56:09 PM

BojanglesPaladin: RoyFokker'sGhost: There's only one person I can think of that's come close to being a true Objectivist...

Also Rorschach


Although in Fairness, Moore based Rorschach on the Question anyway, so....


Or Mr A who later served as the model for the Question. Ditko was a nut but so are many comic writers.
 
2012-08-14 06:56:16 PM
I'm pretty sure Neil Peart and obsessive Rush fanboys are the only reason there are people past the age of 19 who like Ayn Rand.
 
2012-08-14 06:57:25 PM
What happened to that trend of "Going Galt" that was reported to be widespread on Fox News shortly after Obama was elected and was being threatened by all the captains of industry who ran everything from right wing blogs to far right wing blogs. Did anyone make good on that promise, or did they sit back and collect their share of the massively growing corporate profits and continued low tax rate?
 
2012-08-14 06:58:05 PM

ps69: I read The Fountainhead, only it was called The Sword of Truth and was rapey-er.


You speak truth. I'm reading the series now. At Book 8. Book seven was pretty much one long rapist saga. All of them are an Ode to Rand. In some ways, it's a slightly better articulation of objectivism.

But way too much rape, threats of rape, thoughts of rape, rape as plot device, rape as background filler, rape as character builder, rape as punishment, and then domination and torture as a path to self actualization and empowerment (see the Mord-Sith).

Aside from that, they actually wouldn't be that bad.
 
2012-08-14 06:58:15 PM

coeyagi: Weaver95: what if all the John Galt wannabes up and left...and society got better for it?

They wouldn't, they could care less about the collectivist needs of society. They would hang around in their hoverrounds biatching about how corporate taxes are high, therefore R&D budgets are low, and therefore he, the dependent inventor who prides himself on his independence, wouldn't have any money to invent.


Society would be better off, but the Randroids in Galt's Gulch would be forced to keep slaves to do the work for them, because they wouldn't do the work themselves and chores gotta get done.
 
2012-08-14 06:58:22 PM
flipflop jr.
 
2012-08-14 06:58:28 PM

Fark You I'm Drunk: I'm pretty sure Neil Peart and obsessive Rush fanboys are the only reason there are people past the age of 19 who like Ayn Rand.


Which is really funny because Neil Peart identifies as a left-libertarian now.
 
2012-08-14 06:58:45 PM
Maybe he should read Dune and form his philosophy around that...

It'd be less derpy too.
 
2012-08-14 06:59:22 PM

cman: I've got an idea


Doubtful.
 
2012-08-14 06:59:36 PM

Craptastic: "The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand," - Paul Ryan (2005)


Know what I love about that? Getting into public service means your paycheck depends on taxpayers, which kinda doesn't jive with what Rand advocated.

Fark You I'm Drunk: I'm pretty sure Neil Peart and obsessive Rush fanboys are the only reason there are people past the age of 19 who like Ayn Rand.


Actually Peart got past Rand ages ago.
 
2012-08-14 07:01:09 PM

WhyteRaven74: Actually Peart got past Rand ages ago.


Too bad it didn't improve his drumming.

/Stewart Copeland
 
2012-08-14 07:01:53 PM

Confabulat: I read The Fountainhead in my early 20s on a good friend's recommendation, with no real preconceptions of her work or philosophy. It's one of those books that you actually get angry at the author for 1) rambling for pages and pages about utter unrealistic nonsense and pretending it's wisdom; and 2) being a terrible writer on every level while doing that.

If you're going to feed me crap, make it entertaining crap. Rand couldn't even do that. I felt like taking a shower to get that book off me when I was done. Horrible characters, horrible philosophy, just a total disaster of a book. I have heard Atlas Shrugged is better but I'd probably prefer just taking an icepick to my eyeballs rather than try.


But without it, we never would have gotten Bioshock, so, in the end, mostly worth it.
 
2012-08-14 07:02:04 PM
I read Anthem when I was 16 and afterwards I raped my stuffed animals for hours in an attempt to create a new master race.

I'm better now thanks to the Lithium.
 
2012-08-14 07:02:18 PM

Fart_Machine: Or Mr A who later served as the model for the Question.


That was mentioned in the post I quoted. Ditko, Mr. A, and The Question came before Moore and Rorschach. Rorschach was a direct derivation of the Question. (In the same way that Dr. Manhattan was Captain Atom, Owlman was Blue Beetle, etc.) Due to licensing issues withthe Charleston characters.
 
2012-08-14 07:03:36 PM

BojanglesPaladin: Although in Fairness, Moore based Rorschach on the Question anyway, so....


A cute little side-story was when The Question first heard about the Rorschach character, identified with him, and tried to emulate him.

media.comicvine.com
www.revolutionsf.com
www.revolutionsf.com
www.revolutionsf.com
www.revolutionsf.com

By the end of the story, The Question came to the obvious conclusion...........

www.revolutionsf.com
 
2012-08-14 07:03:37 PM

Triumph: FTA:"I reject her philosophy," Ryan says firmly. "It's an atheist philosophy. It reduces human interactions down to mere contracts and it is antithetical to my worldview. If somebody is going to try to paste a person's view on epistemology to me, then give me Thomas Aquinas,"

God help us.


So from one of the worst minds of the 20th century to one of the worst minds of the 13th century?
Not an improvement by any measure...
 
2012-08-14 07:04:54 PM
Rand remarked that the core idea for the book came to her after a 1943 telephone conversation with a friend, who asserted that Rand owed it to her readers to write a nonfiction book about her philosophy. Rand replied, "What if I went on strike? What if all the creative minds of the world went on strike?"

Really?

This is today's GOP go-to? Creative minds?

Please, get Adelson and Trump and Rove and the Koch's and Foster Friese and the rest of those scumsucking, greedy bastards to go on strike. Oh yeah, Mitt, too.

Please!

/Creative? Not really, no.
 
2012-08-14 07:05:05 PM

Gyrony: So from one of the worst minds of the 20th century to one of the worst minds of the 13th century?


Really? Planting your flag on the mental inferiority of Thomas Aquinas?

Interesting play.
 
2012-08-14 07:05:42 PM

TV's Vinnie: A cute little side-story was when The Question first heard about the Rorschach character, identified with him, and tried to emulate him.


Cool. Hadn't seen that. Thx.
 
2012-08-14 07:07:49 PM
what if john galt was paul ryans grandfather?
 
2012-08-14 07:09:52 PM

RoyFokker'sGhost: timujin: Neither Rand, nor any Objectivist I've met, truly understood/understand* one of the core tenets of their philosophy, rational self-interest.

.
.
.
*how exactly are you supposed to switch between tenses when talking about both the living and the dead?


There's only one person I can think of that's come close to being a true Objectivist...

[cdn.ifanboy.com image 850x478]

Seriously, Ditko designed The Question and an earlier character. Mr. A (named after the logical and Objectivist principal of 'A is A'), on the ideas of Objectivism. Regardless of environment or 'justifications', a criminal is still a criminal and must be punished. Those who try to rationalize their crimes are denying the personal responsibility of the choice they made; the Question and Mr. A remind the criminals of this fact.


But aren't they themselves criminals, for being vigilantes?

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: But without it, we never would have gotten Bioshock, so, in the end, mostly worth it.


Yes you would have. It was called System Shock 2. It was also better.
/No seriously, Bioshock is System Shock 2 Underwater and Watered Down.
 
2012-08-14 07:11:41 PM
How convenient...
 
2012-08-14 07:12:59 PM

Weaver95: what if all the John Galt wannabes up and left...and society got better for it?


There was that SeaSteading idea that was being floated around recently. Maybe the guys who came up with the idea played Bioshock and realized the same would happen to their own little Raptures (plasmids, ADAM, etc. not withstanding). So they decided to ruin parts of Honduras instead.
 
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