Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(NBC News)   74% feel voters should be required to show government ID card. Remaining 26% weren't allowed to respond   (openchannel.nbcnews.com) divider line 199
    More: Obvious, American Election, University of Delaware, national initiative, disfranchisements, ID laws, 37th state, School of Journalism, NBC News  
•       •       •

454 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Aug 2012 at 2:58 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



199 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2012-08-14 02:26:02 PM  
imageshack.us
 
2012-08-14 02:31:32 PM  
I'm OK with that *as long as* you allow people enough time to get one, ease of getting one (legally, of course) and so forth. Backhanded games isn't gonna fly with me.
 
2012-08-14 02:45:39 PM  
IF they are given out free and every effort is made between now and the end of time to reach all eligible voters.
 
2012-08-14 02:47:15 PM  
Let's solve a problem that doesn't exist.
 
2012-08-14 02:58:36 PM  
 
2012-08-14 02:59:50 PM  
Remind me: who is adamantly opposed to a national ID card?
 
2012-08-14 03:02:43 PM  
What happened to all that don't tread on me shiat?

Why is it the people that see gun registries as some horrifying evil support a national ID card?
 
2012-08-14 03:02:56 PM  
Great, issue a national ID card and I'll be all for it.
 
2012-08-14 03:03:17 PM  
Weiser and Wilson say that many people supporting voter ID trust the government to apply the laws fairly.

This, however, is the only thing they trust the government to do correctly.
 
2012-08-14 03:03:46 PM  

qorkfiend: Remind me: who is adamantly opposed to a national ID card?


Obviously the liberal states are going to cheat and pass them out to felons and dead people if we don't have national control over IDs. And by "national control," I mean the RNC.
 
2012-08-14 03:04:32 PM  

qorkfiend: Remind me: who is adamantly opposed to a national ID card?


I am. In Alaska, we have places off the road system with no DMV. Getting an ID to those places puts an unnecessary burdensome barrier for some people who should be able to vote. If your state wants to do something, that's one thing, and I won't stand in your way, but a national system would screw us.
 
2012-08-14 03:04:38 PM  

DarwiOdrade: Allegations of widespread fraud by malevolent voters are easy to make, but often prove to be inflated or inaccurate. Crying "wolf" when the claims are unsubstantiated distracts attention from real problems that need real solutions. Moreover, these claims are frequently used to justify policies - including restrictive photo identification rules - that could not solve the alleged wrongs, but that could well disenfranchise legitimate voters.


I WOULD RATHER KILL A THOUSAND INNOCENT MEN THAN LET ONE GUILTY MAN ROAM FREE
 
2012-08-14 03:05:07 PM  

xanadian: I'm OK with that *as long as* you allow people enough time to get one, ease of getting one (legally, of course) and so forth.


I'm fine with voter cards, under these rules:
1) They are 100% free
2) Including opportunity cost- which means you can't require people to go to the DMV or some other crowded office during a limited time window.
3) Lacking one doesn't prevent voting, it just categorizes your votes in a different bucket. Should an election be close, votes in that bucket can be verified after the fact.
4) Polling places can issue them, on the day of the election.
5) There's a national voting holiday.

Okay, the 5th one should happen no matter what.
 
2012-08-14 03:05:46 PM  

Wellon Dowd: Weiser and Wilson say that many people supporting voter ID trust the government to apply the laws fairly.

This, however, is the only thing they trust the government to do correctly.


Funny how they want us all to have our driver license handy at the polls, yet the very first analogy they use when talking about ineffective government services is the lines at the DMV (see the health care "debate").
 
2012-08-14 03:06:42 PM  

Name_Omitted: qorkfiend: Remind me: who is adamantly opposed to a national ID card?

I am. In Alaska, we have places off the road system with no DMV. Getting an ID to those places puts an unnecessary burdensome barrier for some people who should be able to vote. If your state wants to do something, that's one thing, and I won't stand in your way, but a national system would screw us.


The federal government doesn't deliver mail to these places?
 
2012-08-14 03:08:27 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Let's solve a problem that doesn't exist.


You mean like global warming?
 
MFK
2012-08-14 03:08:56 PM  
you guys do realize that even if they are "Free", we still have to farking pay for them in the form of taxes right? Even if they cost $5 is the total cost to the state, to do this nationally you would have to shell out $1.5 Billion dollars to make sure every citizen had a voter ID card.

These laws are crap. We've maintained our electoral integrity for 200+ years without a photo ID law.
 
2012-08-14 03:09:11 PM  

qorkfiend: Name_Omitted: qorkfiend: Remind me: who is adamantly opposed to a national ID card?

I am. In Alaska, we have places off the road system with no DMV. Getting an ID to those places puts an unnecessary burdensome barrier for some people who should be able to vote. If your state wants to do something, that's one thing, and I won't stand in your way, but a national system would screw us.

The federal government doesn't deliver mail to these places?


If you can apply by mail, what the difference? You could send in the photo of your dead gramma and drag her corpse in to vote a second time.
 
2012-08-14 03:09:49 PM  

t3knomanser: xanadian: I'm OK with that *as long as* you allow people enough time to get one, ease of getting one (legally, of course) and so forth.

I'm fine with voter cards, under these rules:
1) They are 100% free
2) Including opportunity cost- which means you can't require people to go to the DMV or some other crowded office during a limited time window.
3) Lacking one doesn't prevent voting, it just categorizes your votes in a different bucket. Should an election be close, votes in that bucket can be verified after the fact.
4) Polling places can issue them, on the day of the election.
5) There's a national voting holiday.

Okay, the 5th one should happen no matter what.


THIS
 
2012-08-14 03:09:57 PM  
In 2003 a similar percentage of people thought invading Iraq was a great idea too.
 
2012-08-14 03:10:06 PM  
I feel like there should be some way to prove that a person is who they say they are, are registered to vote, are registered at that particular polling station, haven't voted already, aren't using the name of someone else at that polling station, etc. At my local place, we have to bring in some proof of ID with our address - a free voter's reg card that is sent through the mail. They find our name in a book, we sign by our name to mark that we are voting, and then we vote. All of that supports the integrity of the election and is really not an undue hassle to voting.
 
2012-08-14 03:10:14 PM  

xanadian: I'm OK with that *as long as* you allow people enough time to get one, ease of getting one (legally, of course) and so forth. Backhanded games isn't gonna fly with me.


That, and it needs to be free or the fee needs to be waived on fairly minimal evidence. Kind of like it is in Texas (which may account for TX not having much push-back against the ID laws, 4-6 weeks and some minimal documentation gets you an ID incredibly easily, plus they're free if you can't afford the 20$).

//Photo ID laws are still a waste of everyone's time, it's just that in TX they're "man, that was a waste of my time" and not "oh, no, an insurmountable obstacle to voting!" Most people that don't have DLs have 'em already, honestly, they're very handy-- can't buy beer or ammo without one.
 
2012-08-14 03:10:34 PM  

MFK: you guys do realize that even if they are "Free", we still have to farking pay for them in the form of taxes right? Even if they cost $5 is the total cost to the state, to do this nationally you would have to shell out $1.5 Billion dollars to make sure every citizen had a voter ID card.

These laws are crap. We've maintained our electoral integrity for 200+ years without a photo ID law.


No, can't you see? Every election that has gone to a democrat has been a fraud!
 
2012-08-14 03:11:00 PM  
A free national ID card would be great. If you charge anything for it, sorry...but seems awfully close to ignoring that whole 24th amendment poll tax thing.

I have no problems with requiring ID at the polls. But if you are going to bastardize an amendment to do it, the please explain to me again how you loves your constitution and it's all scared and shiat, teahadists?
 
2012-08-14 03:11:11 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: qorkfiend: Name_Omitted: qorkfiend: Remind me: who is adamantly opposed to a national ID card?

I am. In Alaska, we have places off the road system with no DMV. Getting an ID to those places puts an unnecessary burdensome barrier for some people who should be able to vote. If your state wants to do something, that's one thing, and I won't stand in your way, but a national system would screw us.

The federal government doesn't deliver mail to these places?

If you can apply by mail, what the difference? You could send in the photo of your dead gramma and drag her corpse in to vote a second time.


I didn't say anything about applying by mail. My point is that the Feds, when sufficiently motivated, can get almost anywhere.
 
2012-08-14 03:11:19 PM  
punchpin.com

Ready to vote!
 
2012-08-14 03:11:50 PM  
In related news, 74% of people polled have no idea what the US Constitution says or what guaranteed constitutional rights are.
 
2012-08-14 03:11:54 PM  
I had to prove my residence.

When I farking registered to vote.

And they accepted a farkton more than just a government ID as proof, but a lot of that also at one point required you to prove where you live and prove you are a citizen.

It's a moot point anyways. No one can ask to see my ID when I vote, unless my wife wants to role play as a Republican as we vote by mail here in Oregon.
 
2012-08-14 03:13:01 PM  
They can do anything they want - but any legally registered voter who is barred from voting will have cause for action.
 
2012-08-14 03:13:27 PM  
Oh, and this will do more to prevent voter fraud than any other method I have heard proposed in the good ol' US of A.

inapcache.boston.com
 
2012-08-14 03:14:19 PM  

t3knomanser: xanadian: I'm OK with that *as long as* you allow people enough time to get one, ease of getting one (legally, of course) and so forth.

I'm fine with voter cards, under these rules:
1) They are 100% free
2) Including opportunity cost- which means you can't require people to go to the DMV or some other crowded office during a limited time window.
3) Lacking one doesn't prevent voting, it just categorizes your votes in a different bucket. Should an election be close, votes in that bucket can be verified after the fact.
4) Polling places can issue them, on the day of the election.
5) There's a national voting holiday.

Okay, the 5th one should happen no matter what.


This. I'm a Liberal, who thinks most of this nonsense is voter suppression in disguise. But there is no arguing the logic of your statement and I would fully support this.
 
2012-08-14 03:14:29 PM  

qorkfiend: Lenny_da_Hog: qorkfiend: Name_Omitted: qorkfiend: Remind me: who is adamantly opposed to a national ID card?

I am. In Alaska, we have places off the road system with no DMV. Getting an ID to those places puts an unnecessary burdensome barrier for some people who should be able to vote. If your state wants to do something, that's one thing, and I won't stand in your way, but a national system would screw us.

The federal government doesn't deliver mail to these places?

If you can apply by mail, what the difference? You could send in the photo of your dead gramma and drag her corpse in to vote a second time.

I didn't say anything about applying by mail. My point is that the Feds, when sufficiently motivated, can get almost anywhere.


But how are the people going to interface with the feds? The problem isn't sending the ID to the voter, it's the voter showing up for the photo and providing proof. People work for a living, and they have kids to take care of, not all have access to transportation, etc.

Percentage-wise (and the Republicans KNOW this), there are going to be working-class people who don't have the time to stress out about having to make the trip.
 
2012-08-14 03:15:08 PM  
I'm fine with that as long as I'm the one who decides who gets a voter ID card.
 
2012-08-14 03:15:39 PM  
I admit, this is one of those things that sort of sounds reasonable until you actually look into it.
 
2012-08-14 03:15:42 PM  

meat0918: Oh, and this will do more to prevent voter fraud than any other method I have heard proposed in the good ol' US of A.

[inapcache.boston.com image 850x554]


Sticking your finger in my inked up B-hole won't prevent fraud.
 
2012-08-14 03:15:44 PM  
In a nation where only half the people vote, does it even farking matter?

/Have had a government-issued photo ID since I was 10 years old.
 
2012-08-14 03:15:55 PM  

t3knomanser: 3) Lacking one doesn't prevent voting, it just categorizes your votes in a different bucket. Should an election be close, votes in that bucket can be verified after the fact.


If votes can be verified after the fact, presumably that means you can find out who voted for whom? That seems a cure far worse than the disease.
 
2012-08-14 03:17:16 PM  
Purple fingers, if it worked in Irak, it can work here.
 
2012-08-14 03:17:54 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: In a nation where only half the people vote, does it even farking matter?


Well yes, when the laws are designed to prevent a decent chunk of those people from having their votes counted.
 
2012-08-14 03:17:55 PM  
Photo ID isn't enough. We need to require a physical, genetic testing, and a presentation of certified land records. How else can we make sure voters are landowning white males as our forefathers intended.
 
2012-08-14 03:18:31 PM  

qorkfiend:

The federal government doesn't deliver mail to these places?

If you can apply by mail, what the difference? You could send in the photo of your dead gramma and drag her corpse in to vote a second time.

I didn't say anything about applying by mail. My point is that the Feds, when sufficiently motivated, can get almost anywhere.


Fair enough. That being said, I don't think you will find the Feds particularly motivated to maintain rural postal service. Since we have to fight tooth and nail to maintain the USPS, relying on it to preserve the right of citizens to vote does not make me any more inclined to support a national ID card.
 
2012-08-14 03:18:42 PM  

Skanque: meat0918: Oh, and this will do more to prevent voter fraud than any other method I have heard proposed in the good ol' US of A.

[inapcache.boston.com image 850x554]

Sticking your finger in my inked up B-hole won't prevent fraud.


So someone is going to let this person vote a second time without inspecting their fingers for the indelible ink?

Or are you more concerned with voter registration fraud?

Let's not conflate the two here.
 
2012-08-14 03:19:04 PM  
Was ID required to vote in the poll?
 
2012-08-14 03:19:50 PM  
How about we make voter fraud convictions a treasonable offense?

It undermines the entire purpose of our country and is sufficiently harsh to discourage doing it.
 
2012-08-14 03:20:46 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Let's solve a problem that doesn't exist.


this.

Look farkwads, this is voter suppression pure and simple. The GOP has looked at the numbers, voting trends and the population projections and there's just no way they can survive in a democracy with free and open elections with just the votes of 150 billionaires, hillbilly retards and the every shrinking religious right. If they don't do something to chase away the mud people and the poor, they're toast.
 
2012-08-14 03:21:57 PM  
In Canada you tick a box on your tax form which asks if you want your name and address shared witht Elections Officer. Then, before the Election, you get a post card with your name and address on it, with the time, dates and places to show up to vote.

No shenanigans ... well, not a lot of shenanigans, such as partisans of a certain party which deserves to remain nameless forever ... denying voters the vote because they have no ID, or have moved, or have been told the election is another day ,or they should vote in a distant place in another country, or because they have the same name as somebody is a felon or lives in another place, or what not.

Just a card with your name on it, sent to your mail box or slipped under your door. They take the card and cross your name off the list of voters. You only have to fuss with ID if you did not receive the card or have to swear an oath to vote because you moved between tax day and Election day.

Simple isn't it? No BS with one party trying to get the dead to vote, while the other party just wants all the wrong sort of voters dead.

IT'S NOT USEFUL OR NECESSARY TO DEMAND PHOTO ID.
 
2012-08-14 03:24:25 PM  
The only voter fraud I've ever heard of was committed on a massive scale by Republicans.
 
2012-08-14 03:24:28 PM  

brantgoose: IT'S NOT USEFUL OR NECESSARY TO DEMAND PHOTO ID.


...but how else are we going to keep blah people from voting?
 
2012-08-14 03:24:54 PM  

s1ugg0: How about we make voter fraud convictions a treasonable offense?

It undermines the entire purpose of our country and is sufficiently harsh to discourage doing it.


Even better....
How about we make voter suppression a treasonable offense?
Death by Firings squads being the punishment.
 
2012-08-14 03:25:52 PM  

Farkin_Crazy: Was ID required to vote in the poll?


Not exactly required, but....

Wendy Weiser, director of the Democracy Program at the Brennan Center for Justice at the New York University School of Law, which opposes strict voter-ID laws, is concerned that polling on the issue misses many of the people most likely to be impacted.

"The people who don't have ID are less likely to be captured by telephone polls," she said. "They're less likely to be people who answer telephone polls and less likely to have landlines."
 
2012-08-14 03:26:33 PM  
Free and VERY easy to get one or no go.
 
2012-08-14 03:27:47 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: What happened to all that don't tread on me shiat?

Why is it the people that see gun registries as some horrifying evil support a national ID card?


That earthquake in Iran was the result of this kind of cognitive dissonance at work.
 
2012-08-14 03:28:26 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: Free and VERY easy to get one or no go.


But enough about dates with your mom...

/i keed
 
2012-08-14 03:29:08 PM  

meat0918: Oh, and this will do more to prevent voter fraud than any other method I have heard proposed in the good ol' US of A.

[inapcache.boston.com image 850x554]


It would, except for a few things. First, there just isn't any voter fraud here. There's not. They've looked for years. They can't find it.

Secondly, can you imagine the absolutely STUPID amount of debate there would be over what color ink to use? I'm serious. Do you think this country could get its head out of its collective ass for even ten minutes to just make a simple decision like that? No. It would go on for farking years.
 
2012-08-14 03:34:10 PM  

mat catastrophe: No. It would go on for farking years.


And we'd end up with genetically-modified ink from Monsanto, diluted with fracking water from Haliburton and some lead from Chinese toy factories.
 
2012-08-14 03:34:20 PM  
You guys and your silly poling places and having to show ID every time. No thanks, I'll just fill out my vote-by-mail form from the comfort of my own house on my own time.
 
2012-08-14 03:34:51 PM  

mat catastrophe:
Secondly, can you imagine the absolutely STUPID amount of debate there would be over what color ink to use? I'm serious. Do you think this country could get its head out of its collective ass for even ten minutes to just make a simple decision like that? No. It would go on for farking years.


And then there is the chemical makeup of the dye. It is mind control stuff, you know. They put mercury in it to make all voters go mad.
 
2012-08-14 03:35:14 PM  
Ah, yes, and we immediately misrepresent the opposition in the headline. Because why be honest when you can just lie out your ass like a typical conservative....

I don't know anybody who has a problem with setting up a reasonable voter ID system. The people I know, myself included, have a problem with what's actually happening: republicans passing a bunch of bullshiat voter ID laws with shaky premises and little planning in an election year for the sole purpose of disenfranchising democratic voters they know don't have that ID.

But just keep lying. It's not like that durned liberal media is going to stop you by calling you on it.
 
2012-08-14 03:35:55 PM  

xria: t3knomanser: 3) Lacking one doesn't prevent voting, it just categorizes your votes in a different bucket. Should an election be close, votes in that bucket can be verified after the fact.

If votes can be verified after the fact, presumably that means you can find out who voted for whom? That seems a cure far worse than the disease.


Provisional ballots, how do they work?
 
2012-08-14 03:36:09 PM  

Name_Omitted: mat catastrophe:
Secondly, can you imagine the absolutely STUPID amount of debate there would be over what color ink to use? I'm serious. Do you think this country could get its head out of its collective ass for even ten minutes to just make a simple decision like that? No. It would go on for farking years.

And then there is the chemical makeup of the dye. It is mind control stuff, you know. They put mercury in it to make all voters go mad.


Not that you'd notice here in the US.
 
2012-08-14 03:36:39 PM  

mat catastrophe: meat0918: Oh, and this will do more to prevent voter fraud than any other method I have heard proposed in the good ol' US of A.

[inapcache.boston.com image 850x554]

It would, except for a few things. First, there just isn't any voter fraud here. There's not. They've looked for years. They can't find it.

Secondly, can you imagine the absolutely STUPID amount of debate there would be over what color ink to use? I'm serious. Do you think this country could get its head out of its collective ass for even ten minutes to just make a simple decision like that? No. It would go on for farking years.


And it would be a moving target. The GOAL is to eliminate voters, so one we concede to an ID standard, it will never be good enough for the GOP.

Here's what the GOP demographic machine knows: They have to get very high numbers of angry, uninformed voters to the polls to get the votes -- enough to outweigh the lower turnout shown by regular Joes. They stopped appealing to the middle decades ago.

By getting those high numbers from the fringe, they've had a little success in getting the angry people to cut the economic throats of the working class, but it's always a very close race. They need to further suppress the independents and Democrats to move more of our resources into the pockets of the people with massive capital.
 
2012-08-14 03:37:04 PM  
Universal vote by mail. Register your address online or at the post office/DMV/library/etc and select a PIN which you then must enter on your mail in ballot. No in person voting means no voter fraud.
 
2012-08-14 03:38:35 PM  

Jairzinho: s1ugg0: How about we make voter fraud convictions a treasonable offense?

It undermines the entire purpose of our country and is sufficiently harsh to discourage doing it.

Even better....
How about we make voter suppression a treasonable offense?
Death by Firings squads being the punishment.


Conviction of voter suppression is just as bad as voter fraud.
 
2012-08-14 03:41:18 PM  

Bag of Hammers: Marcus Aurelius: Let's solve a problem that doesn't exist.

this.

Look farkwads, this is voter suppression pure and simple. The GOP has looked at the numbers, voting trends and the population projections and there's just no way they can survive in a democracy with free and open elections with just the votes of 150 billionaires, hillbilly retards and the every shrinking religious right. If they don't do something to chase away the mud people and the poor, they're toast.


HAMMER, MEET NAIL = 100% accurate
 
2012-08-14 03:44:18 PM  

beta_plus: Marcus Aurelius: Let's solve a problem that doesn't exist.

You mean like global warming?


Are you saying that NASA and NOAA are both wrong and the earth is not getting warmer?

You must be a super genius.
 
2012-08-14 03:45:07 PM  

Stile4aly: Universal vote by mail. Register your address online or at the post office/DMV/library/etc and select a PIN which you then must enter on your mail in ballot. No in person voting means no voter fraud.


If I can show you my ballot before I mail it, I can sell you my vote.
 
2012-08-14 03:47:04 PM  

I don't know why people bury their heads in the sand and refuse to see the following:

Conservatives presume that all voter 'fraud' is perpetrated in favor of Democrats due to the demographic most likely to lack ID. It's the only reason they've largely invented this 'issue.' You'd have to be a Hannity viewer to honestly think this new rash of laws is about anything but disenfranchising the poor and elderly.

While we're arguing "Hurr but getting ID is so cheap and easy" we're not considering the motivation for the laws.


Stop whining about how you need an ID to cash a check so you should need one to vote, and ask yourself WHY this suddenly became an issue in the last year. And why it's virtually 100% partisan. Search your feelings. You know it to be true.

Republicans: Hating America for as long as anyone can remember
 
2012-08-14 03:49:15 PM  

qorkfiend: Remind me: who is adamantly opposed to a national ID card?


Me.

As stated previously, we're spending an awful lot of time and money, while causing harm to an awful lot of US citizens, to fix a problem that simply does not exist.
 
2012-08-14 03:51:33 PM  
I'm sure these same people would have no problem with mandated issuing of national id cards.
 
2012-08-14 03:56:19 PM  
1. The ID's have to be free.
2. The ID's are actually marks that go on the forehead or the hand.

There. That'll turn the rubes against each other.
 
2012-08-14 03:57:15 PM  

dickfreckle: Republicans: Hating America for as long as anyone can remember


No, just since the late 70s. Some of us are still alive from that era, you know.
 
2012-08-14 04:00:48 PM  
I would like to take it one step further and make voting mandatory, everyone must vote, 100% turn out, then perhaps we would get the goverment we want and not the one we deserve.
 
2012-08-14 04:04:20 PM  

yanoosh: I would like to take it one step further and make voting mandatory, everyone must vote, 100% turn out, then perhaps we would get the goverment we want and not the one we deserve.


I believe that's the case in Australia. If we do that though, I want a None of the Above option on all the ballots.
 
2012-08-14 04:08:07 PM  

MFK: you guys do realize that even if they are "Free", we still have to farking pay for them in the form of taxes right? Even if they cost $5 is the total cost to the state, to do this nationally you would have to shell out $1.5 Billion dollars to make sure every citizen had a voter ID card.

These laws are crap. We've maintained our electoral integrity for 200+ years without a photo ID law.


The easiest way to fix the problem is to just use paper ballots. That way there is no way any one person can fill out enough to have any significant effect on an election.
 
2012-08-14 04:08:40 PM  

MFK: you guys do realize that even if they are "Free", we still have to farking pay for them in the form of taxes right? Even if they cost $5 is the total cost to the state, to do this nationally you would have to shell out $1.5 Billion dollars to make sure every citizen had a voter ID card.


And yet, the people opposed to a national ID card due to its cost would have no problem spending $200 Billion on tanks and stealth fighters that the military neither needs nor wants.


These laws are crap. We've maintained our electoral integrity for 200+ years without a photo ID law.

Except these laws aren't meant to maintain our electoral integrity, they're meant to make it difficult or impossible for those people to vote, since those people tend to vote for Democrats.
 
2012-08-14 04:13:13 PM  

King Something: Except these laws aren't meant to maintain our electoral integrity, they're meant to make it difficult or impossible for those people to vote, since those people tend to vote for Democrats.


I have no problem with paying for photo IDs for everyone.
But how are "these people" and "those people" operating without photo IDs in the first place?
No banking, no check cashing, no collecting of state or federal benefits of any kind....
Who are these people and where do they live?

I'm having a hard time believing this propaganda.
 
2012-08-14 04:14:18 PM  
What about all the absentee votes? What are the ID standards for getting an absentee ballot? If you want voter IDs how the hell can you even verify the ID of the person sending in the absentee ballot?
 
2012-08-14 04:15:43 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: King Something: Except these laws aren't meant to maintain our electoral integrity, they're meant to make it difficult or impossible for those people to vote, since those people tend to vote for Democrats.

I have no problem with paying for photo IDs for everyone.
But how are "these people" and "those people" operating without photo IDs in the first place?
No banking, no check cashing, no collecting of state or federal benefits of any kind....
Who are these people and where do they live?

I'm having a hard time believing this propaganda.


Yes. I've never heard of anyone who didn't have the time to go to the DMV and ended up with an expired license.
 
2012-08-14 04:16:41 PM  
And OK, if all of "those people" need IDs, then why aren't the democrats going out and helping them get them?
 
2012-08-14 04:18:04 PM  

Name_Omitted: Stile4aly: Universal vote by mail. Register your address online or at the post office/DMV/library/etc and select a PIN which you then must enter on your mail in ballot. No in person voting means no voter fraud.

If I can show you my ballot before I mail it, I can sell you my vote.


How would that be any different than someone selling their in-person vote?
 
2012-08-14 04:18:10 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: And OK, if all of "those people" need IDs, then why aren't the democrats going out and helping them get them?


They are. I've heard numerous stories on NPR interviewing people doing exactly that. Next dumb question?
 
2012-08-14 04:18:14 PM  

Nadie_AZ: IF they are given out free and every effort is made between now and the end of time to reach all eligible voters.


Of course they won't really be free. The taxpayers will have to cover the costs of printing them and managing their dissemination. While probably not an extreme cost, it's certainly an unnecessary cost according to all investigations into this non-issue. So once again we find conservatives pushing for bigger government, and more government spending for entirely selfish reasons. Who'd have thought.
 
2012-08-14 04:18:57 PM  
This issue is weird to me because as it is we have pitiful voter turnout, in fact (warning: anecdote) out of my group of friends and acquaintances I was the only one who voted in 2010. I wonder if voter turn always are as large as people make them out to be...? It could be apathy or just ignorance, tough nut to crack.

However the idea of National Voting Holiday makes so much sense that I'm sure politicos have fought against it. I teach and in 2010 and this November I will CANCEL class on that day for this expressed reason. You can't vote in a 1 hr lunch break window or wait in line at 530 after work!
 
2012-08-14 04:19:29 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: HotIgneous Intruder: King Something: Except these laws aren't meant to maintain our electoral integrity, they're meant to make it difficult or impossible for those people to vote, since those people tend to vote for Democrats.

I have no problem with paying for photo IDs for everyone.
But how are "these people" and "those people" operating without photo IDs in the first place?
No banking, no check cashing, no collecting of state or federal benefits of any kind....
Who are these people and where do they live?

I'm having a hard time believing this propaganda.

Yes. I've never heard of anyone who didn't have the time to go to the DMV and ended up with an expired license.


And who also happened to be a democrat, right?
I call B.S. on this.
If these folks are working, they likely have a photo ID because to get paid in anything but under-the-table cash, you need to cash a check or have a bank account.
If they're too old to work, they are retired and have lots of time, right?
Is this photo ID thing intended to flush out drug dealers?
I mean, WTF?
 
2012-08-14 04:20:50 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: HotIgneous Intruder: And OK, if all of "those people" need IDs, then why aren't the democrats going out and helping them get them?

They are. I've heard numerous stories on NPR interviewing people doing exactly that. Next dumb question?


Well good. It shouldn't be a problem in November, then, should it?
Nope. Got it covered.
Next stupid issue?
 
2012-08-14 04:21:27 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: And OK, if all of "those people" need IDs, then why aren't the democrats going out and helping them get them?


ACORN. Remember those guys who got railroaded by a lying Republican hunk of shiat? Voter registration was their main function, you know. You see what happened there, don't you.
 
2012-08-14 04:24:06 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: HotIgneous Intruder: And OK, if all of "those people" need IDs, then why aren't the democrats going out and helping them get them?

ACORN. Remember those guys who got railroaded by a lying Republican hunk of shiat? Voter registration was their main function, you know. You see what happened there, don't you.


I'm not talking about voter registration.
I'm talking about government-issued photo ID.
In my state, voter registration is automatic with a driver's license.

I do not understand why this is such a (dare I type the word?) liberal hot button thing.
 
2012-08-14 04:26:04 PM  
In Canada we have to show proof of ID and address before we can vote in federal elections, we have three options:

1. A government issued photo ID with name and address or
2. A photo ID with name (health card, firearms licence) and a utility bill. or
3. Make a sworn oath and have a second person who reports to the same polling station vouch for your identity via a sworn statement. You can only vouch for one person per election.

I see no issue with verifying a voters identity if it is made that easy. I hope the outrage over this Voter ID thing is that it is being passed right before an election leaving people without enough time to acquire the proper ID and without contingency.
 
2012-08-14 04:27:04 PM  
1. Show ID
2. Obtain permit application and pay fee
3. Get Fingerprinted
4. Pass Background check to ensure eligibility.

Then you can vote purchase a firearm.

5. On top of the requirements above all firearms have an 11% excise tax.

/Just sayin'
 
2012-08-14 04:28:46 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Lenny_da_Hog: HotIgneous Intruder: King Something: Except these laws aren't meant to maintain our electoral integrity, they're meant to make it difficult or impossible for those people to vote, since those people tend to vote for Democrats.

I have no problem with paying for photo IDs for everyone.
But how are "these people" and "those people" operating without photo IDs in the first place?
No banking, no check cashing, no collecting of state or federal benefits of any kind....
Who are these people and where do they live?

I'm having a hard time believing this propaganda.

Yes. I've never heard of anyone who didn't have the time to go to the DMV and ended up with an expired license.

And who also happened to be a democrat, right?
I call B.S. on this.
If these folks are working, they likely have a photo ID because to get paid in anything but under-the-table cash, you need to cash a check or have a bank account.
If they're too old to work, they are retired and have lots of time, right?
Is this photo ID thing intended to flush out drug dealers?
I mean, WTF?


Go ahead and call BS. Madison Ave. has the math to prove you wrong. It's why it's a partisan issue.

Do you think the Democrats actively encourage easy fraud? Why, Jim-Joe Bubba from the sticks can take advantage of that as easily as urban grandma.

The numbers show that these laws put more stress on upright voters who tend to vote democratic, and that's the ONLY reason ALEC has been pushing so hard for them.
 
2012-08-14 04:29:25 PM  
Again, I see this all the time, this arguing from a Perfect World position.
The world is not a perfect place. Ever.
You cannot present an air-tight perfect position on any topic, given the vagaries of human existence.

The sooner people everywhere realize this, the better off we'll all be and maybe we can dump this useless bi-polar biatching at each other.

Everybody should have a photo ID, no matter who they are, black, white, brown, purple with orange spots, rich, poor, stupid, smart.
 
2012-08-14 04:31:21 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Lenny_da_Hog: HotIgneous Intruder: And OK, if all of "those people" need IDs, then why aren't the democrats going out and helping them get them?

ACORN. Remember those guys who got railroaded by a lying Republican hunk of shiat? Voter registration was their main function, you know. You see what happened there, don't you.

I'm not talking about voter registration.
I'm talking about government-issued photo ID.
In my state, voter registration is automatic with a driver's license.

I do not understand why this is such a (dare I type the word?) liberal hot button thing.


And if there were voter ID laws, groups like ACORN would be pushing for the oppressed.

It's a lot easier if you just cock-block the groups that register them in the first place (as happened), but if ID laws were in place, the GOP would attack any group that helped people get IDs.

It's why ALEC is writing these laws and passing them out to friendly legislators.
 
2012-08-14 04:31:35 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: The numbers show that these laws put more stress on upright voters who tend to vote democratic, and that's the ONLY reason ALEC has been pushing so hard for them.


Do these numbers also show that these virtually undocumented voters are non-participants in the rest of American life as we who post here know and understand it?

Who are these American voter people who operate without ID?
How many of them are there and where?
 
2012-08-14 04:32:54 PM  

Stile4aly: Name_Omitted:
If I can show you my ballot before I mail it, I can sell you my vote.

How would that be any different than someone selling their in-person vote?


In person, in the booth, I can pull the lever for whomever I want, and then tell you I voted for whomever I want to tell you (unless you have started a chain ballot). I don't like allowing people to prove definitively to third parties who they voted for, because it makes it easier for a political machine (a real one, not the current use of the phrase) to work.

That being said, there is no evidence that I have seen that would indicate that this is a problem in OR or WA where mail in ballots are used. It's just something to watch for as we go forward. In both cases, the anwnser is to hunt down *actual* voter fraud, and treat *actual* fraud harshly, not to create systems around imagined fraud that could perhaps exist.
 
2012-08-14 04:33:55 PM  
Unfortunately, the same people absolutely rejected the possibility of a national ID card back in the early 2000s, claiming mark of the beast and a bunch of other paranoid conservative bullcrap.

You can't force people to pay for government ID to vote, as that's a poll tax and thus unconstitutional. So make up your mind.

Personally, I'd be happy with requiring ID, as long as you can ensure that everyone has national ID.
 
2012-08-14 04:37:11 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Lenny_da_Hog: The numbers show that these laws put more stress on upright voters who tend to vote democratic, and that's the ONLY reason ALEC has been pushing so hard for them.

Do these numbers also show that these virtually undocumented voters are non-participants in the rest of American life as we who post here know and understand it?

Who are these American voter people who operate without ID?
How many of them are there and where?


You have Google. If you were interested, you look. You're not. You don't want the answers. You'd rather keep throwing anecdotes in instead of looking at the demographics.

You don't want truth. You want to defend current beliefs.

The Democrats aren't trying to change existing laws. The Republicans are putting HIGHER QUALIFICATIONS into place. Higher qualifications = more eliminations. It's an attack on voting rights. If it eliminates 1 rural Bubba to 10 urban grandmas, the GOP wins.

And really, there is virtually no problem to be solved here. There are far more problems with voting tabulation than voting fraud.

Go spend some time on the internets instead of asking Farkers to do everything for you.
 
2012-08-14 04:38:00 PM  

qorkfiend: Remind me: who is adamantly opposed to a national ID card?


Everyone who's concerned that these schemes are mainly a way to disenfranchise poor voters by setting up unnecessary hurdles to resolve a problem that all evidence indicates isn't actually a serious problem.

Other than that, no one.
 
2012-08-14 04:38:51 PM  

jaerik: Unfortunately, the same people absolutely rejected the possibility of a national ID card back in the early 2000s, claiming mark of the beast and a bunch of other paranoid conservative bullcrap.

You can't force people to pay for government ID to vote, as that's a poll tax and thus unconstitutional. So make up your mind.

Personally, I'd be happy with requiring ID, as long as you can ensure that everyone has national ID.


Agreed.
I've got no problem with the govt. requiring ID and also paying for it when necessary.
I use my driver's license to ID myself for voting and I paid for that.

All I can see in my mind's eye is little Aunt Minnie, a tiny black poor woman, going down to the polling place and being told she can't vote because she's got no ID.
If someone wants to vote, it seems to me they will go and get the ID they need to do so.

What people live nowadays WITHOUT photo ID?
Where? Who are they? Besides voluntary drop-outs, I mean.
 
2012-08-14 04:40:46 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: qorkfiend: Remind me: who is adamantly opposed to a national ID card?

Everyone who's concerned that these schemes are mainly a way to disenfranchise poor voters by setting up unnecessary hurdles to resolve a problem that all evidence indicates isn't actually a serious problem.

Other than that, no one.


I just say jump that hurdle. DO what it takes to get the photo ID if you want to vote. It seems to me that doing that would open doors to other forms of social participation beyond simply voting.
 
2012-08-14 04:41:20 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder:
I'm talking about government-issued photo ID.
In my state, voter registration is automatic with a driver's license.

I do not understand why this is such a (dare I type the word?) liberal hot button thing.


And, as previously mentioned, in MY state, there are several communities without a DMV, or road access. Getting a drivers license involves getting on an aircraft.

What is the problem we are solving here? Where is the voter fraud? This solution DOES create problems, which could be worked around, and would be justified if there were an issue, but there is not.

And getting a government issued photo ID is not universally easy around the nation.
 
2012-08-14 04:43:00 PM  
 
2012-08-14 04:43:32 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Lenny_da_Hog: The numbers show that these laws put more stress on upright voters who tend to vote democratic, and that's the ONLY reason ALEC has been pushing so hard for them.

Do these numbers also show that these virtually undocumented voters are non-participants in the rest of American life as we who post here know and understand it?

Who are these American voter people who operate without ID?
How many of them are there and where?


How many people don't have an ID and will be harmed by requiring voter ID laws? I don't know. How many cases of voter fraud will the voter ID laws prevent? I don't know that either. So granted I have no idea how much it will help if at all nor do I know how much it will hurt. But what I do know is it is crucial we proceed forward with voter ID laws anyways.
 
2012-08-14 04:45:16 PM  

Name_Omitted: And, as previously mentioned, in MY state, there are several communities without a DMV, or road access. Getting a drivers license involves getting on an aircraft.


You must be in Alaska, because very few other places in the US and A! fit that condition.
And if you do, then you understand that you have to do what has to be done.
Everyone is free to choose a lifestyle that suits them.
Calculate that cost and make your choice.
 
2012-08-14 04:46:52 PM  
It cracks me up when people get all crazy when a report of 30,000 dead people on Florida voter rolls come out. I'll be 30,000 people die in a day in Florida.
These claims of voter fraud are hard to swallow, too.
 
2012-08-14 04:47:33 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: A recent national survey sponsored by the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU School of
Law reveals that millions of American citizens do not have readily available documentary
proof of citizenship. Many more - primarily women - do not have proof of citizenship
with their current name. The survey also showed that millions of American citizens do
not have government-issued photo identification, such as a driver's license or passport.
Finally, the survey demonstrated that certain groups - primarily poor, elderly, and
minority citizens - are less likely to possess these forms of documentation than the
general population
.


Whoa whoa whoa, the elderly you say? People here have been saying Republicans are pushing voter ID laws to swing the vote in their favor. But if they prevent the elderly from voting, that hurts them too. I mean, the only way you could keep thinking Republicans are pushing voter ID laws as a way to manipulate the vote and it's not really about fraud would be if they exempted just the elderly.

Oh, right.
 
2012-08-14 04:51:39 PM  

t3knomanser: xanadian: I'm OK with that *as long as* you allow people enough time to get one, ease of getting one (legally, of course) and so forth.

I'm fine with voter cards, under these rules:
1) They are 100% free
2) Including opportunity cost- which means you can't require people to go to the DMV or some other crowded office during a limited time window.
3) Lacking one doesn't prevent voting, it just categorizes your votes in a different bucket. Should an election be close, votes in that bucket can be verified after the fact.
4) Polling places can issue them, on the day of the election.
5) There's a national voting holidayElection Day becomes Election Week, with polls open 24 hours a day.

Okay, the 5th one should happen no matter what.


FTFY

Even on national holidays, some people have to work. Plus, the government can't really compel private businesses to close on a particular day. Spreading Election Day out over a week and mandating that polls stay open 24 hours a day would give everyone who wants to a chance to vote.

Other ways I would tweak your plan:

Federal government makes these:



free for every citizen in the country. Yeah, you have to go and apply for one, but they can make it so that you can apply for one at any neighborhood post office or public library. You should also be able to apply for one at a police station or federal or state courthouse (tie it to law enforcement funding or something). I'm sure that if the federal government made a free ID available for everyone, the issue of "voter fraud" would magically disappear from the list of right wing talking points and they would move on to some other way to disenfranchise the poor.
 
2012-08-14 04:51:39 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Name_Omitted: And, as previously mentioned, in MY state, there are several communities without a DMV, or road access. Getting a drivers license involves getting on an aircraft.

You must be in Alaska, because very few other places in the US and A! fit that condition.
And if you do, then you understand that you have to do what has to be done.
Everyone is free to choose a lifestyle that suits them.
Calculate that cost and make your choice.


You're pretty ignorant about Alaska. Villages have been there for thousands of years. They're Americans now and have the right to vote. It's not just Tim Treadwells going to the wilderness to live with the bears.
 
2012-08-14 04:52:07 PM  
Like, my goddam voter registration card?
 
2012-08-14 04:52:23 PM  
Image fail. This is what I was trying to link:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-08-14 04:52:54 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: So granted I have no idea how much it will help if at all nor do I know how much it will hurt. But what I do know is it is crucial we proceed forward with voter ID laws anyways.

You must be in Alaska, because very few other places in the US and A! fit that condition.
And if you do, then you understand that you have to do what has to be done.
Everyone is free to choose a lifestyle that suits them.
Calculate that cost and make your choice.


Yes. I live in Alaska. You have no idea how much this will help, but you think that it must be done anyways, and if it disenfranchises folk in my state, it was their choice to live where they have lived, therefore they don't need representation.


You have been pulling my leg all along, haven't you? I mean, you can't be serious. We need to move because you want to do something that you don't know will help?
 
2012-08-14 04:53:20 PM  

lennavan: Lenny_da_Hog: A recent national survey sponsored by the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU School of
Law reveals that millions of American citizens do not have readily available documentary
proof of citizenship. Many more - primarily women - do not have proof of citizenship
with their current name. The survey also showed that millions of American citizens do
not have government-issued photo identification, such as a driver's license or passport.
Finally, the survey demonstrated that certain groups - primarily poor, elderly, and
minority citizens - are less likely to possess these forms of documentation than the
general population.


I'd say if they want to vote, they should get an ID.
Yes, it can be a pain.

/Apply for a passport lately? Not cheap.
//A TWIC card? Not easy or cheap.
///A driver license or state ID is no hardship.
 
2012-08-14 04:55:54 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: I'd say if they want to vote, they should get an ID.


Why? What function does an ID serve?
 
2012-08-14 04:56:35 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: ///A driver license or state ID is no hardship.


If it costs any amount of money, it's a poll tax. Doesn't matter if it's .01
 
2012-08-14 04:56:45 PM  

Name_Omitted: HotIgneous Intruder: So granted I have no idea how much it will help if at all nor do I know how much it will hurt. But what I do know is it is crucial we proceed forward with voter ID laws anyways.

You must be in Alaska, because very few other places in the US and A! fit that condition.
And if you do, then you understand that you have to do what has to be done.
Everyone is free to choose a lifestyle that suits them.
Calculate that cost and make your choice.

Yes. I live in Alaska. You have no idea how much this will help, but you think that it must be done anyways, and if it disenfranchises folk in my state, it was their choice to live where they have lived, therefore they don't need representation.


You have been pulling my leg all along, haven't you? I mean, you can't be serious. We need to move because you want to do something that you don't know will help?


No.
Being all bootstrappy and Alaskan, you (may) understand how to get things done.
So do it. What's the problem?
Lots of people have paid higher prices to be able to vote than overcoming mere geographic obstacles.
Will you? Or are you too lazy to do what it takes?
Or don't you really want to vote?
And if you care so much for others, help them get it done.
 
2012-08-14 04:59:05 PM  

12349876: HotIgneous Intruder: ///A driver license or state ID is no hardship.

If it costs any amount of money, it's a poll tax. Doesn't matter if it's .01


So?
If people want it, it will get done.
Or we can just use the purple ink like the oil serfs in the fringes of empire.
Do what you want.
IF you want to vote, you'll do what it takes.
If you care about other people voting, you'll help them.

Stop whining, for the love of gawd.
 
2012-08-14 04:59:41 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: I'd say if they want to vote, they should get an ID.
Yes, it can be a pain.



No pain, no loss! Since there's certainly nothing to gain (except GOP power).
 
2012-08-14 05:00:52 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: And if you care so much for others, help them get it done.


You mean like ACORN was doing? Yeah the Republicans threw out some outright lies in order to stop those crazy shenanigans from continuing.
 
2012-08-14 05:01:26 PM  

lennavan: HotIgneous Intruder: I'd say if they want to vote, they should get an ID.

Why? What function does an ID serve?


You tell me.
I literally don't give a shiat.
I've had one since I was 10 years old and I've never known anyone who DIDN'T have one truth be told.

/YMMV
//Works for me.
 
2012-08-14 05:01:38 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: 12349876: HotIgneous Intruder: ///A driver license or state ID is no hardship.

If it costs any amount of money, it's a poll tax. Doesn't matter if it's .01

So?
If people want it, it will get done.
Or we can just use the purple ink like the oil serfs in the fringes of empire.
Do what you want.
IF you want to vote, you'll do what it takes.
If you care about other people voting, you'll help them.

Stop whining, for the love of gawd.


Sounds like you hate our Constitution.
 
2012-08-14 05:02:24 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: HotIgneous Intruder: I'd say if they want to vote, they should get an ID.
Yes, it can be a pain.


No pain, no loss! Since there's certainly nothing to gain (except GOP power).


So you can stay home and whine about who's in power and how unfair life is.
Give me a break.
 
2012-08-14 05:03:14 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Stop whining, for the love of gawd.


Why stop there, then? If you REALLY want to vote, you'll eat a live slug. If you don't eat a live slug, you don't REALLY want to vote.

Or maybe a nice walk across hot coals! Why then, only the very, very motivated would vote -- people like the far-right wingers.
 
2012-08-14 05:03:16 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: lennavan: HotIgneous Intruder: I'd say if they want to vote, they should get an ID.

Why? What function does an ID serve?

You tell me.


So you want to mandate an ID that will serve an unknown function? Wow, what a great idea you have going here.
 
2012-08-14 05:04:23 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: I've had one since I was 10 years old and I've never known anyone who DIDN'T have one truth be told.


And you completely ignored the NYU center for law study I posted, and instead rely on your anecdotes. You're a shill. Just admit it.
 
2012-08-14 05:05:44 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Lenny_da_Hog: HotIgneous Intruder: I'd say if they want to vote, they should get an ID.
Yes, it can be a pain.


No pain, no loss! Since there's certainly nothing to gain (except GOP power).

So you can stay home and whine about who's in power and how unfair life is.
Give me a break.


I gave you the facts and you ignored them. You could have googled them yourself. You don't want truth, you want to be a propagandist.

How much do they pay you?
 
2012-08-14 05:07:46 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: I've had one since I was 10 years old and I've never known anyone who DIDN'T have one truth be told.


Sounds like you're lucky enough to not know any poor people.
 
2012-08-14 05:08:00 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: HotIgneous Intruder: So granted I have no idea how much it will help

HotIgneous Intruder: And if you care so much for others, help them get it done.


You want me to put a village on a plane so you can implement something that you don't even know will work? I have not laughed so hard in awhile.

Seriously. Come to Alaska, you can visit the third world without leaving the country. We have villages without plumbing. We are still electrifying parts of the state. Heating fuel costs $8 a gallon. We've got real problems to wok on without you telling me to spend my time implementing your solution to a problem that does not exist. If you want to do something in your state, do so. Don't fix your imagined local problems with a federal solution.
 
2012-08-14 05:09:34 PM  

12349876: HotIgneous Intruder: I've had one since I was 10 years old and I've never known anyone who DIDN'T have one truth be told.

Sounds like you're lucky enough to not know any poor people.


Rich people don't have to take CraigsList jobs trolling forums for the GOP.
 
2012-08-14 05:14:21 PM  

Name_Omitted: Seriously. Come to Alaska, you can visit the third world without leaving the country.


Sounds like a local problem.
If you can't sort it out using local politics, then it probably will never get sorted because Washington isn't even answering the phones for the rest of us down here, either.
I never said I had local problems and what I actually said -- and what my problem with this happens to be -- is that it's a non-issue. I've got ID and have had it effectively my entire life. It's not a problem for me. I'm all sorted out here. I think the whole issue is another absurd imaginary problem for both sides to get the vapors over.

Lots of people in rural areas in the lower 48 also live in squalor, so don't suppose you're unique in that regard. Poor is the new normal.
 
2012-08-14 05:15:28 PM  

Name_Omitted: Seriously. Come to Alaska,


I'd like that. Can stay with you?
 
2012-08-14 05:17:01 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: I've got ID and have had it effectively my entire life. It's not a problem for me.


I got mine! Fark y'all!
 
2012-08-14 05:17:58 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Name_Omitted: Seriously. Come to Alaska,

I'd like that. Can stay with you?


Bad idea for Name_Omitted. You'd likely open your mouth and they'd take it out on him.
 
2012-08-14 05:17:58 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: 12349876: HotIgneous Intruder: I've had one since I was 10 years old and I've never known anyone who DIDN'T have one truth be told.

Sounds like you're lucky enough to not know any poor people.

Rich people don't have to take CraigsList jobs trolling forums for the GOP.


You could be a student or intern or basement dweller with rich parents and do that.
 
2012-08-14 05:19:10 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: 12349876: HotIgneous Intruder: I've had one since I was 10 years old and I've never known anyone who DIDN'T have one truth be told.

Sounds like you're lucky enough to not know any poor people.

Rich people don't have to take CraigsList jobs trolling forums for the GOP.


My mother married into a military family and I became a card-carrying military dependent.
After that it was a passport, then driver's licenses in an unbroken chain for my entire life.
You don't have to be rich to have a photo ID.

/Until Obama, I was a lifelong democratic voter.
//Never again voting democrat or republican.
 
2012-08-14 05:20:01 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: HotIgneous Intruder: Name_Omitted: Seriously. Come to Alaska,

I'd like that. Can stay with you?

Bad idea for Name_Omitted. You'd likely open your mouth and they'd take it out on him.


I doubt it.
 
2012-08-14 05:21:04 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Lenny_da_Hog: HotIgneous Intruder: Name_Omitted: Seriously. Come to Alaska,

I'd like that. Can stay with you?

Bad idea for Name_Omitted. You'd likely open your mouth and they'd take it out on him.

I doubt it.


Shows, again, how ignorant of Alaska you are.
 
2012-08-14 05:21:07 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: HotIgneous Intruder: I've got ID and have had it effectively my entire life. It's not a problem for me.

I got mine! Fark y'all!


Not really.
 
2012-08-14 05:22:09 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Name_Omitted: Seriously. Come to Alaska, you can visit the third world without leaving the country.

Sounds like a local problem.
If you can't sort it out using local politics, then it probably will never get sorted because Washington isn't even answering the phones for the rest of us down here, either.
I never said I had local problems and what I actually said -- and what my problem with this happens to be -- is that it's a non-issue. I've got ID and have had it effectively my entire life. It's not a problem for me. I'm all sorted out here. I think the whole issue is another absurd imaginary problem for both sides to get the vapors over.

Lots of people in rural areas in the lower 48 also live in squalor, so don't suppose you're unique in that regard. Poor is the new normal.


Wow. We are really talking around each other now. Let me try and start again, since it does not appear we are actually that far apart.

I don't imagine we are unique in squalor, just indicating that we have more important things to worry about than getting people ID'd so they can not vote in a state that does not have a ubiquitous set of DMV's. Getting people ID's in this state is a logistical challenge, so if it were to be required, it would not be a non-issue for us. Since there is not a defined problem that the ID's would actually solve, it is a logistical challenge we should not have to attempt when there are more important things for us to do. That's the point I am trying to make.
 
2012-08-14 05:22:57 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Lenny_da_Hog: 12349876: HotIgneous Intruder: I've had one since I was 10 years old and I've never known anyone who DIDN'T have one truth be told.

Sounds like you're lucky enough to not know any poor people.

Rich people don't have to take CraigsList jobs trolling forums for the GOP.

My mother married into a military family and I became a card-carrying military dependent.
After that it was a passport, then driver's licenses in an unbroken chain for my entire life.
You don't have to be rich to have a photo ID.

/Until Obama, I was a lifelong democratic voter.
//Never again voting democrat or republican.


Yes. A FarkIndependentTM.

You are not a member of the demographics reported in the NYU report. How lucky for you. Now you can fark everybody independently, with the results just coincidentally supporting ALEC.
 
2012-08-14 05:23:45 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Lenny_da_Hog: HotIgneous Intruder: I've got ID and have had it effectively my entire life. It's not a problem for me.

I got mine! Fark y'all!

Not really.


Oh. You don't really have an ID?
 
2012-08-14 05:23:47 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: HotIgneous Intruder: Lenny_da_Hog: HotIgneous Intruder: Name_Omitted: Seriously. Come to Alaska,

I'd like that. Can stay with you?

Bad idea for Name_Omitted. You'd likely open your mouth and they'd take it out on him.

I doubt it.

Shows, again, how ignorant of Alaska you are.


Probably but not really. Not as ignorant as you for saying that.
 
2012-08-14 05:25:18 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: HotIgneous Intruder: Lenny_da_Hog: 12349876: HotIgneous Intruder: I've had one since I was 10 years old and I've never known anyone who DIDN'T have one truth be told.

Sounds like you're lucky enough to not know any poor people.

Rich people don't have to take CraigsList jobs trolling forums for the GOP.

My mother married into a military family and I became a card-carrying military dependent.
After that it was a passport, then driver's licenses in an unbroken chain for my entire life.
You don't have to be rich to have a photo ID.

/Until Obama, I was a lifelong democratic voter.
//Never again voting democrat or republican.

Yes. A FarkIndependentTM.

You are not a member of the demographics reported in the NYU report. How lucky for you. Now you can fark everybody independently, with the results just coincidentally supporting ALEC.


Not really.
Are we playing a gang version of Jump to Conclusions here?
 
2012-08-14 05:25:58 PM  
You people are as bad as the AGW crowd.
 
2012-08-14 05:26:42 PM  
Put up or shut up.
Show me the Alaska that I can't possibly understand.
 
2012-08-14 05:26:58 PM  
If we're going to require government ID, then the government should provide the ID to everyone. Yes, even those folks in those tiny tows tens of miles from a city center out in the boonies that happen to vote for the party you don't like. Every. Single. One. Otherwise you've just farked them over.
 
2012-08-14 05:27:33 PM  

Name_Omitted: I don't imagine we are unique in squalor, just indicating that we have more important things to worry about than getting people ID'd so they can not vote in a state that does not have a ubiquitous set of DMV's. Getting people ID's in this state is a logistical challenge, so if it were to be required, it would not be a non-issue for us. Since there is not a defined problem that the ID's would actually solve, it is a logistical challenge we should not have to attempt when there are more important things for us to do. That's the point I am trying to make.


Oh, c'mon. It's as easy as jumping on the I-99 from Nome to St. Mary's. Take the Nunapitchuk exit, and make sure you don't stay at the Howard Johnson's there -- maid service is awful.
 
2012-08-14 05:31:50 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: Oh, c'mon. It's as easy as jumping on the I-99 from Nome to St. Mary's. Take the Nunapitchuk exit, and make sure you don't stay at the Howard Johnson's there -- maid service is awful.


:D And people thought the Bridge to Nowheretm was an expensive proposition!
 
2012-08-14 05:32:43 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Put up or shut up.
Show me the Alaska that I can't possibly understand.


It's not *can't*. It's *won't.* You're ignoring the facts already, and just keep saying over and over that you've personally had an ID since you were 10, and don't know anyone without one.

When you repeat anecdotes over and over again, it's obvious that you're unwilling to learn facts, even when provided.

I worked for the Eskimos in Barrow for several years. You're ignorant. It would take at least a semester of college level work to bring you up to speed.
 
2012-08-14 05:35:53 PM  

verbaltoxin: yanoosh: I would like to take it one step further and make voting mandatory, everyone must vote, 100% turn out, then perhaps we would get the goverment we want and not the one we deserve.

I believe that's the case in Australia. If we do that though, I want a None of the Above option on all the ballots.


We have compulsory voting here. If you don't get your name marked off, it's a small fine, about $50. However, as long as your name gets marked off, and you put the ballot papers into their boxes, it doesn't matter if you vote. One voter several years back took the effort to do a landscape drawing as their protest... If you mark it the wrong way, it gets thrown out, but in this case the electoral commission saved it on the basis of talent, artistic merit, and general not-giving-a-shiat of the creator.

We don't have 100% turn-out - some people just take the fine.

We don't allow political party members to run voting booths - they are allowed to oversee that the counting process it conducted fairly.

We hold elections on Saturdays, but with a good mail-in period beforehand.

We are sent small ID slips in the mail a few weeks before hand, to our registered addresses, which are then handed over when our name gets marked off.
 
2012-08-14 05:36:07 PM  

Name_Omitted: Wow. We are really talking around each other now. Let me try and start again, since it does not appear we are actually that far apart.

I don't imagine we are unique in squalor, just indicating that we have more important things to worry about than getting people ID'd so they can not vote in a state that does not have a ubiquitous set of DMV's. Getting people ID's in this state is a logistical challenge, so if it were to be required, it would not be a non-issue for us. Since there is not a defined problem that the ID's would actually solve, it is a logistical challenge we should not have to attempt when there are more important things for us to do. That's the point I am trying to make.


I get the logistical challenge part. But I also know that provisions are made for remote services in Alaska. Seems like the state could send a guy out with a camera, printer and laminating machine and get it done if it got mandated. But why? Good question. I don't think the massive disenfranchised population that certain factions are here screaming about even exists. I ask who they are and where they are and all I get is attacked, which is pretty much par for fark when you buck the herd mentality or the (insert party here) party line.
I'm serious about coming up there.
How could I help?
 
2012-08-14 05:36:49 PM  
*polling stations, not voting booths.
 
2012-08-14 05:37:16 PM  
How can anyone who is so poor that they can't afford an ID going to be harmed if they have to get an ID? Isn't this actually something that can help who ever this applies to? Liberal states want to give a drivers license to every single illegal alien because they feel that it' "Brings them into the light" Isn't this sort of the same thing? As long a any law that gets passed does not create a financial burden on the person to meet the requierment, or they have a provisional balot if they don't have an ID, there's nothing wrong with this. Else, how are these "poor" people buying smokes, getting a welfare check or booze? Or heaven foribid, apply for a job?
 
2012-08-14 05:38:26 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: I don't think the massive disenfranchised population that certain factions are here screaming about even exists.


READ. THE. BRENNAN. REPORT. PROVIDED.

What you think is not factual. MILLIONS are affected. MILLIONS of Americans. Read. Learn.

Or just keep repeating what's there on your talking points list. You likely get paid by the post.
 
2012-08-14 05:41:59 PM  
 
2012-08-14 05:43:34 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: HotIgneous Intruder: I don't think the massive disenfranchised population that certain factions are here screaming about even exists.

READ. THE. BRENNAN. REPORT. PROVIDED.

What you think is not factual. MILLIONS are affected. MILLIONS of Americans. Read. Learn.

Or just keep repeating what's there on your talking points list. You likely get paid by the post.


No, not really. I don't get paid. Wish I did.
Believe it or not, there are people who do not agree with you or know what you know.
MILLIONS are affected, really?
MILLIONS of Americans are too stupid to have jobs, too.
MILLIONS of Americans are drunks and mentally ill and poor.
Given 370 MILLION Americans, it's likely that any given condition can exist for MILLIONS of them.
Where is this report? Got a link?
 
2012-08-14 05:49:48 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Where is this report? Got a link?


Nevermind. You're a troll or shill. I linked to it twice now. Once directly in response to you, and once via LMGTFY directly above your post here.

You're an ALEC knob-gobbler, at very least, willing to to promote the disenfranchisement of American rights.
 
2012-08-14 05:50:21 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Lenny_da_Hog: HotIgneous Intruder: I don't think the massive disenfranchised population that certain factions are here screaming about even exists.

READ. THE. BRENNAN. REPORT. PROVIDED.

What you think is not factual. MILLIONS are affected. MILLIONS of Americans. Read. Learn.

Or just keep repeating what's there on your talking points list. You likely get paid by the post.

No, not really. I don't get paid. Wish I did.
Believe it or not, there are people who do not agree with you or know what you know.


That's kinda what his entire point. You don't agree with him because you don't know what he knows. He keeps trying to help you. See what I know that he does not know is that you're purposely ignoring reality because you know it will not support your position and you can't have that. There is no link, source or fact that could possibly change your mind.
 
2012-08-14 05:52:09 PM  
So grandfather them in with affidavits.
What's the big problem here?

You know, like when people who can't write their names put their mark on a document and have it witnessed. Have someone, family member, etc., vouch for this undocumented person under penalty of perjury, etc. Have the undocumented person bring family or other proof of residence or a person who can swear to that.
It's not rocket science.
 
2012-08-14 05:54:10 PM  
Oh, the little ID papers are just for confirmation of address... You can present drivers licence to prove identity and address.
 
2012-08-14 05:54:16 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: What's the big problem here?


The problem is that Fark has enough political troll propagandists, and it gets worse during the election season. You make Fark suck.
 
2012-08-14 05:55:28 PM  

lennavan: Believe it or not, there are people who do not agree with you or know what you know.


That's kinda what his entire point. You don't agree with him because you don't know what he knows.


No.
My point is that I do not agree with him and I do not assess the problem the way he does. I now know what he knows and instead of running around waving my arms screaming, "MILLIONS ARE AFFECTED OMG OMG OMG MURDER MURDER!" I'm trying to inject some sense into the discussion.
Farking whiners and arm-wavers.
 
2012-08-14 05:57:13 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: HotIgneous Intruder: What's the big problem here?

The problem is that Fark has enough political troll propagandists, and it gets worse during the election season. You make Fark suck.


I'm not a partisan.
There are no Perfect World solutions.

If you say I make this place suck because I have logical, sensible, real-world answers to the spastic whining crowd, then so be it. It sucks to be exposed as children in an adult world.
 
2012-08-14 06:01:40 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder:
I'm serious about coming up there.
How could I help?


That, of course, depends on your skill-set. Americorps has a pretty active program up here. If you have a more well defined skillet, we are ALWAYS looking for teachers (with absurdly thick skins), there are Nursing positions available in every major population center in the state, and a Community Health Aid can find work anywhere in the State. We can always use more Village Public Safety Officers, the same could be said about many technical skills, we are a state that is still building. Some of the largest public infrastructure projects going are going on now, we are attempting to run a terrestrial high-speed internet loop through the Southwest of the state which will involve microwave, buried, above land and undersea links when it is done.

With a $3B budget surplus, we are pouring a lot of money into infrastructure, which amounts to a good start. As long as oil remains over $90 a barrel, we (and of course the rest of you through the Federal Government, thanks) will be building until the state owned oil runs out (in 10 years at current technology, perhaps another 30-50 if we are lucky). God willing, we will have built a sustainable non-oil economy by then. Given how much of the state budget is oil revenue, that is not a given.

If you are serious about coming up, and you've got skills we can find something for you to do.
 
2012-08-14 06:02:57 PM  

Name_Omitted: Americorps has a pretty active program up here.


I'm an adult with two kids -- I need to work a real job for a living.
 
2012-08-14 06:03:58 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: lennavan: Believe it or not, there are people who do not agree with you or know what you know.


That's kinda what his entire point. You don't agree with him because you don't know what he knows.

No.
My point is that I do not agree with him and I do not assess the problem the way he does. I now know what he knows and instead of running around waving my arms screaming, "MILLIONS ARE AFFECTED OMG OMG OMG MURDER MURDER!" I'm trying to inject some sense into the discussion.
Farking whiners and arm-wavers.


So, to summarize:

Your position was that there's no reason for the law.

Your previous position that it was easy to get an ID has been nullified by facts (not opinions) showing millions of Americans would have to go to additional efforts to exercise their right to vote has been nullified..

You still want the law, regardless of who might be disenfranchised, and regardless of the logistical problems it would create.

Bring that altogether somehow. Tell me why.
 
2012-08-14 06:04:10 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: If you say I make this place suck because I have logical, sensible, real-world answers


To non-existent problems. Teehee.
 
2012-08-14 06:04:39 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: I'm not a partisan.


Fark IndependentTM
 
2012-08-14 06:05:52 PM  

Name_Omitted: HotIgneous Intruder:
I'm serious about coming up there.
How could I help?

That, of course, depends on your skill-set. Americorps has a pretty active program up here. If you have a more well defined skillet, we are ALWAYS looking for teachers (with absurdly thick skins), there are Nursing positions available in every major population center in the state, and a Community Health Aid can find work anywhere in the State. We can always use more Village Public Safety Officers, the same could be said about many technical skills, we are a state that is still building. Some of the largest public infrastructure projects going are going on now, we are attempting to run a terrestrial high-speed internet loop through the Southwest of the state which will involve microwave, buried, above land and undersea links when it is done.

With a $3B budget surplus, we are pouring a lot of money into infrastructure, which amounts to a good start. As long as oil remains over $90 a barrel, we (and of course the rest of you through the Federal Government, thanks) will be building until the state owned oil runs out (in 10 years at current technology, perhaps another 30-50 if we are lucky). God willing, we will have built a sustainable non-oil economy by then. Given how much of the state budget is oil revenue, that is not a given.

If you are serious about coming up, and you've got skills we can find something for you to do.


So how does all that dovetail with the extant poverty situation? State surplus should mean social condition improvements, right?
 
2012-08-14 06:05:55 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Name_Omitted: Americorps has a pretty active program up here.

I'm an adult with two kids -- I need to work a real job for a living.


That's what the entire rest of the post is about. There IS real work to be had.
 
2012-08-14 06:06:55 PM  

Name_Omitted: HotIgneous Intruder: Name_Omitted: Americorps has a pretty active program up here.

I'm an adult with two kids -- I need to work a real job for a living.

That's what the entire rest of the post is about. There IS real work to be had.


Gotcha. What would be a good pickup skill? Already got a useless bachelor's degree.
Welding?
 
2012-08-14 06:09:20 PM  
Well, that settles that, liberal will be quick to DEMAND that we do something right this very second the moment 50.1% of the people agree with them on anything, so they should have no problem with this, and after that they should nod their heads in agreement as we repeal ObamaCare.

Oh wait... AGREE with them... I'm sorry, I forgot that the will of the people be damned when they disagree with a liberal.
 
2012-08-14 06:12:41 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: HotIgneous Intruder: I'm not a partisan.

Fark IndependentTM


/You keep farking that chicken, baby. Nobody's watching.
 
2012-08-14 06:12:46 PM  
And yet almost ALL of those people are utterly opposed to government ID cards and consider themselves champions of freedom and the constitution and no government lackey is telling them what to do. Just other people.
 
2012-08-14 06:17:23 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder:
So how does all that dovetail with the extant poverty situation? State surplus should mean social condition improvements, right?


Yes, and no. There are definite improvements being made, but there are limiting factors with regard to how quickly they can be solved. We will use absolutely as much money as can be thrown at the problem, but we need the social capitol; people with skills. There are a LOT of positions available for social workers, for teachers, for carpenters, for all maner of things, you can take your pick https://alexsys.labor.state.ak.us/jobbanks/. When it comes to getting helpful skills to the villagers, all the state money in the world can't make that happen unless people are interested in either moving in, or we have the resources to train locals.
 
2012-08-14 06:20:36 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Lenny_da_Hog: HotIgneous Intruder: I'm not a partisan.

Fark IndependentTM

/You keep farking that chicken, baby. Nobody's watching.


And you keep telling everyone how non-partisan you are. Nobody's believing you.
 
2012-08-14 06:22:42 PM  

Name_Omitted: HotIgneous Intruder:
So how does all that dovetail with the extant poverty situation? State surplus should mean social condition improvements, right?

Yes, and no. There are definite improvements being made, but there are limiting factors with regard to how quickly they can be solved. We will use absolutely as much money as can be thrown at the problem, but we need the social capitol; people with skills. There are a LOT of positions available for social workers, for teachers, for carpenters, for all maner of things, you can take your pick https://alexsys.labor.state.ak.us/jobbanks/. When it comes to getting helpful skills to the villagers, all the state money in the world can't make that happen unless people are interested in either moving in, or we have the resources to train locals.


It's also pretty tough to fly in a wastewater treatment plant by bush plane.
 
2012-08-14 06:24:59 PM  

randomjsa: Well, that settles that, liberal will be quick to DEMAND that we do something right this very second the moment 50.1% of the people agree with them on anything, so they should have no problem with this, and after that they should nod their heads in agreement as we repeal ObamaCare.


This.

We should be able to pass any law we want with zero exception based on a simple public majority.
 
2012-08-14 06:27:59 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog:
It's also pretty tough to fly in a wastewater treatment plant by bush plane.


It is. Logistically, improvement becomes a lot easier when you can ship things in bulk on the ships that are coming in for the ore at Red Dog. I suppose the real answer for what can be done to help would be "don't die of shock when we come asking for help to build a $4B rail spur to the Ambler mining district."
 
2012-08-14 06:34:28 PM  

Name_Omitted: HotIgneous Intruder:
So how does all that dovetail with the extant poverty situation? State surplus should mean social condition improvements, right?

Yes, and no. There are definite improvements being made, but there are limiting factors with regard to how quickly they can be solved. We will use absolutely as much money as can be thrown at the problem, but we need the social capitol; people with skills. There are a LOT of positions available for social workers, for teachers, for carpenters, for all maner of things, you can take your pick https://alexsys.labor.state.ak.us/jobbanks/. When it comes to getting helpful skills to the villagers, all the state money in the world can't make that happen unless people are interested in either moving in, or we have the resources to train locals.


Thanks for the link, I appreciate it. I've probably seen it before in my surfing...

My timeline would be around next spring. Alaska has been a dream deferred for me for quite a long time. I'm just about done with the political and economic vagaries of the lower 48. It's a morass in more ways than one and none of them interest me. Plus, I can't see myself staring at a computer screen for the rest of my life. [My last career was newspaper editing at the city and national levels.] I've been a stay-home dad for about six years and I see my options as either Alaska or the merchant marine. My next career is mine to design and I want to do actual work, not get fat shoveling pixels wearing dockers and sensible shoes in some quarter Dilbert office cubicle.
 
2012-08-14 06:37:00 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: HotIgneous Intruder: Lenny_da_Hog: HotIgneous Intruder: I'm not a partisan.

Fark IndependentTM

/You keep farking that chicken, baby. Nobody's watching.

And you keep telling everyone how non-partisan you are. Nobody's believing you.


Have it your way, even if it tastes a little like fascism.
Don't like what I say? Attack me.
Excellent plan.
You'll really become popular doing that.
 
2012-08-14 06:39:29 PM  

lennavan: We should be able to pass any law we want with zero exception based on a simple public majority.


Tell it to the US senate.
 
2012-08-14 06:42:24 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: lennavan: We should be able to pass any law we want with zero exception based on a simple public majority.

Tell it to the US senate.


Nah, I'll let randomjsa do it. I'm just followin the lead.

randomjsa: Well, that settles that, liberal will be quick to DEMAND that we do something right this very second the moment 50.1% of the people agree with them on anything, so they should have no problem with this, and after that they should nod their heads in agreement as we repeal ObamaCare.

Oh wait... AGREE with them... I'm sorry, I forgot that the will of the people be damned when they disagree with a liberal.

 
2012-08-14 06:46:52 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: You'll really become popular doing that.


I don't have to worry about popularity. See that TF next to my name? I didn't pay for it. In fact, it happens fairly often, at least a few times a year. People actually like me from time to time.

You do. Tokyo Rose was only effective because she tried to sound likeable.
 
2012-08-14 06:47:01 PM  

uselessgit: Else, how are these "poor" people buying smokes, getting a welfare check or booze? Or heaven foribid, apply for a job?


Careful with that. You just opened the flood gates to the denizens of Farklibtardia who will claim not only do they have a savings account, checking account, 401(k), 3 firearms, a job with a security clearance, own a home, went to college, have 2 kids and are a boy scout troop leader but they do so without any form of ID whatsoever, have never had it and any suggestion they get one is disenfranchisement.

That, and someone's grandmother who went to pre-school with the little old lady that runs the polling station at the Church and she's never needed ID and she has no way of getting an ID and wont you please think of Grandma?

Did I miss any?
 
2012-08-14 06:52:25 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: HotIgneous Intruder: You'll really become popular doing that.

I don't have to worry about popularity. See that TF next to my name? I didn't pay for it. In fact, it happens fairly often, at least a few times a year. People actually like me from time to time.

You do. Tokyo Rose was only effective because she tried to sound likeable.


Wow. You must be a genius and a mind reader.
Seems to me like you're the one doing the partisan attacks and accusations here.
 
2012-08-14 06:54:06 PM  

o5iiawah: Careful with that. You just opened the flood gates to the denizens of Farklibtardia who will claim not only do they have a savings account, checking account, 401(k), 3 firearms, a job with a security clearance, own a home, went to college, have 2 kids and are a boy scout troop leader but they do so without any form of ID whatsoever, have never had it and any suggestion they get one is disenfranchisement.


That seems mildly plausible.
Let's wait and see.
 
2012-08-14 06:54:54 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder:
My timeline would be around next spring. Alaska has been a dream deferred for me for quite a long time. I'm just about done with the political and economic vagaries of the lower 48. It's a morass in more ways than one and none of them interest me. Plus, I can't see myself staring at a computer screen for the rest of my life.


Well... don't use your last dollar to get here. Alaska is an amazing place, and an amazing dream, but the two are not always the same. I know too many people who used everything they could get ahold of to come here, to be stuck because they had no return. Some of them would like it here, if they felt they were still here by choice. Also, know that you are swapping one set of vagaries for another. Alaska has the reputation of being rugged and individual, but a vast majority of our economy by number of jobs is government related (federal, local or military). Before you tie your horse here for the rest of your life, know that I was very serious when I said that our economy is financially based on oil, and at current technology, we can only assume that the State's revenue oil will last for another decade or so. While there is a lot more oil to be drilled, if it's not on State land, well... that adds a lot uncertainty to the entirety of the State budget over the long run.

However, this is still a place where you can come and make a difference. The State is barley 50 years old, and there is a lot of development left to do, and a lot of places you could leave your stamp.
 
2012-08-14 07:03:11 PM  

Name_Omitted: HotIgneous Intruder:
My timeline would be around next spring. Alaska has been a dream deferred for me for quite a long time. I'm just about done with the political and economic vagaries of the lower 48. It's a morass in more ways than one and none of them interest me. Plus, I can't see myself staring at a computer screen for the rest of my life.

Well... don't use your last dollar to get here. Alaska is an amazing place, and an amazing dream, but the two are not always the same. I know too many people who used everything they could get ahold of to come here, to be stuck because they had no return. Some of them would like it here, if they felt they were still here by choice. Also, know that you are swapping one set of vagaries for another. Alaska has the reputation of being rugged and individual, but a vast majority of our economy by number of jobs is government related (federal, local or military). Before you tie your horse here for the rest of your life, know that I was very serious when I said that our economy is financially based on oil, and at current technology, we can only assume that the State's revenue oil will last for another decade or so. While there is a lot more oil to be drilled, if it's not on State land, well... that adds a lot uncertainty to the entirety of the State budget over the long run.

However, this is still a place where you can come and make a difference. The State is barley 50 years old, and there is a lot of development left to do, and a lot of places you could leave your stamp.


Thanks for the insight.
Next time I get stranded, it'll be by choice, rest assured.
AK still sounds like my cup of tea, dreaming aside.
Finding some like-minded humans is up there on my list, as well.
 
2012-08-14 08:07:56 PM  
We need voter ID laws like we need communism. It works in theory but isn't practical.
 
2012-08-14 09:07:22 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Wow. You must be a genius and a mind reader.


Don't be silly. I'm not a mind-reader.
 
2012-08-14 10:09:05 PM  

Bag of Hammers: Look farkwads, this is voter suppression pure and simple. The GOP has looked at the numbers, voting trends and the population projections and there's just no way they can survive in a democracy with free and open elections with just the votes of 150 billionaires, hillbilly retards and the every shrinking religious right. If they don't do something to chase away the mud people and the poor, they're toast.


I live in Hawaii. It is the bluest of the blue states.
Our Governor is a Democrat.
Our Senators are Democrats.
Our Representatives are democrats.
There is currently only one Republican in the entire State Senate and only one Republican in the Honolulu City Council.
Everyone else is a Democrat.

However, when I go to vote I need to show ID.

Will you please explain to us how these 2 backbenchers managed to "get over" on the entire Democratic machine that is the Hawaii State government and force voter IDs on the general population?
 
2012-08-14 10:32:22 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: What happened to all that don't tread on me shiat?

Why is it the people that see gun registries as some horrifying evil support a national ID card?


Don't tread on ME.

YOU are a different story.
 
2012-08-14 10:51:13 PM  

Jim_Callahan: xanadian: I'm OK with that *as long as* you allow people enough time to get one, ease of getting one (legally, of course) and so forth. Backhanded games isn't gonna fly with me.

That, and it needs to be free or the fee needs to be waived on fairly minimal evidence. Kind of like it is in Texas (which may account for TX not having much push-back against the ID laws, 4-6 weeks and some minimal documentation gets you an ID incredibly easily, plus they're free if you can't afford the 20$).

//Photo ID laws are still a waste of everyone's time, it's just that in TX they're "man, that was a waste of my time" and not "oh, no, an insurmountable obstacle to voting!" Most people that don't have DLs have 'em already, honestly, they're very handy-- can't buy beer or ammo without one.


Here in NV, that's more like '...through my two jobs, I have to go WHERE for HOW long?! Do they WANT me to get fired?!'.
 
2012-08-14 11:45:22 PM  
I don't see how it's oppressive. YOU SHOULD HAVE PHOTO ID.

You can't buy liquor or cigarettes without one. You can't get into clubs and bars without one. You can't do very much at all without one. So get one.

Screw voter ID, you should be able to be required to produce ID at any and all official transactions. In fact, I think you are.

Anyone who doesn't have a photo ID should drop what they're doing and go get one. Regardless of voter ID laws, it's just gonna make your life easier.
 
2012-08-14 11:46:50 PM  

o5iiawah: Did I miss any?


Herp and derp.
Oh, and Herpderp.
 
2012-08-15 12:12:55 AM  

dickfreckle: I don't know why people bury their heads in the sand and refuse to see the following:

Conservatives presume that all voter 'fraud' is perpetrated in favor of Democrats due to the demographic most likely to lack ID. It's the only reason they've largely invented this 'issue.' You'd have to be a Hannity viewer to honestly think this new rash of laws is about anything but disenfranchising the poor and elderly.

While we're arguing "Hurr but getting ID is so cheap and easy" we're not considering the motivation for the laws.

Stop whining about how you need an ID to cash a check so you should need one to vote, and ask yourself WHY this suddenly became an issue in the last year. And why it's virtually 100% partisan. Search your feelings. You know it to be true.

Republicans: Hating America for as long as anyone can remember


Oh, I've raised this exact point, repeatedly and often, in these threads, and am always ignored. You can join my Cassandra Club if you like.

The other reason, of course, is that while people are focused on this phantom "voter fraud" at the polls, and whether an ID is reasonable or not, any REAL voter fraud takes place at the ballot-counting stage, which no number of IDs will cure, and which the Republicans would just as soon not be addressed until after the next election (whichever "next" you're talking about).
 
2012-08-15 01:17:50 AM  
A disturbing amount of people I know, people who ought to know better, also believe that we should drug-test welfare recipients.

These are sad times.

/Hand out free Voter ID cards at registration, then we will talk.
 
2012-08-15 03:38:31 AM  
Herp Derpington: national ID card

We have those already
 
2012-08-15 01:16:52 PM  
Photo ID or you don't vote.

There are half a dozen equivalents accepted here if you have no driver's license. No excuses anymore.
 
2012-08-16 01:02:54 AM  

barneyfifesbullet: Photo ID or you don't vote.

There are half a dozen equivalents accepted here if you have no driver's license. No excuses anymore.


I never have to show my ID when I vote. Of course, I get my ballot mailed to me a few weeks in advance and I can fill it out on my own time and drop it off at my local library when I'm done. In fact, everybody in my state does this because I live in Oregon.

Having to go to your poling place during the workday and show ID is so 20th century.
 
Displayed 199 of 199 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report