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(Blastr)   Alan Moore claims DC offered him $2 million to endorse Before Watchmen   (blastr.com) divider line 82
    More: Unlikely, security guards  
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2353 clicks; posted to Geek » on 14 Aug 2012 at 11:59 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-14 08:11:38 AM  
It is not unlikely that Warner Brothers offered a creator money to endorse what some would consider a bastardization of the original. It is not unlikely at all. It is, perhaps, unlikely that it was 2 million. Unless WB was planning on turning Watchmen into an Avengers-like media franchise.
 
2012-08-14 08:16:00 AM  
Moore may be a crazy old coot who should have retired long ago, but he's not wrong when he says that too many modern comics are shiatty rehashes of his ideas done by hacks that wouldn't know an original idea if it bit them on the ass.
 
2012-08-14 08:31:27 AM  
He looks like he's trying way too hard in that pic.
 
2012-08-14 09:17:25 AM  

Mugato: He looks like he's trying way too hard in that pic.


he always looks like that.
 
2012-08-14 09:21:30 AM  
Had he taken the money he would finally be able to afford a new razor.
 
2012-08-14 09:30:45 AM  

ManateeGag: Mugato: He looks like he's trying way too hard in that pic.

he always looks like that.


They had to get in that close and have him hold the jewelry in front of his face to minimize the "totally looks like Hagrid" thing.
 
2012-08-14 11:37:15 AM  
Why unlikely? His endorsement might very well be worth $2M. And it's not like a paid endorsement is an unusual thing.
 
2012-08-14 11:57:14 AM  
Well he's no Frank Miller.
 
2012-08-14 12:02:30 PM  

ManateeGag: Mugato: He looks like he's trying way too hard in that pic.

he always looks like that.


Yeah, his 'pissed off' face is the same as his 'I'm Bored' face.
 
2012-08-14 12:03:53 PM  

timujin: Why unlikely? His endorsement might very well be worth $2M. And it's not like a paid endorsement is an unusual thing.


Considering that even the best selling comics struggle to top 100k, I sort of doubt it. This isn't "Death of Superman" era where event comics pull in millions of sales.
 
2012-08-14 12:05:09 PM  
Who's Alan Moore?
 
2012-08-14 12:08:40 PM  

Crewmannumber6: Who's Alan Moore?


He was a drummer for Judas Priest.
 
2012-08-14 12:08:47 PM  
I'll give Bruce Willis $18 to endorse my "Before Hudson Hawk" comic.
 
2012-08-14 12:09:46 PM  

Crewmannumber6: Who's Alan Moore?


He knows the score.
 
2012-08-14 12:13:18 PM  

Electriclectic: Considering that even the best selling comics struggle to top 100k, I sort of doubt it. This isn't "Death of Superman" era where event comics pull in millions of sales.


Really? Is that right? Considering they're all like 3-4 dollars a pop you'd only have to sell like 25 to 34,000 units. Are you telling me that the best selling comics don't move 34,000 units? I would have thought otherwise, especially nowadays.
 
2012-08-14 12:18:36 PM  

skodabunny: Crewmannumber6: Who's Alan Moore?

He was a drummer for Judas Priest.


Oh, yeah! the one armed guy.
 
2012-08-14 12:18:47 PM  

Mangoose: Electriclectic: Considering that even the best selling comics struggle to top 100k, I sort of doubt it. This isn't "Death of Superman" era where event comics pull in millions of sales.

Really? Is that right? Considering they're all like 3-4 dollars a pop you'd only have to sell like 25 to 34,000 units. Are you telling me that the best selling comics don't move 34,000 units? I would have thought otherwise, especially nowadays.


Here's some sales data.

Te majority of the books sell in the 10k to 30k range.

Also, the companies don't make 3 or 4 bucks off the books. They sell 'em to the comic shops for half price.
 
2012-08-14 12:19:00 PM  
Alan Moore used to live with his wife and their mutual (female) lover... now he lives with his new wife with whom he co-authors pornographic comic books. All while looking like someone who would accost your for spare change while wearing his underwear on his head. You all are just jealous.
 
2012-08-14 12:19:56 PM  
I picked up a couple of Before Watchmen books, as the in-store nerd breathlessly explained how awesome they were, and how I should just buy them all, since I'll definitely be back for them anyway.

They're ok. I don't read a lot of comics, so it's hard for me to gauge their quality relative to other contemporary books, but to me, they read like the authors are trying really, really hard to get them to mesh with the rest of the "universe", and it's painfully obvious.

Also, the bolding of every fourth word became really obnoxious and obtrusive after a while. Is this a standard thing in comics now? Very few of the trades that I do have (older books) do the "bolding" thing so frequently.
 
2012-08-14 12:20:46 PM  
Screw Moore.

Doesn't he just write CP under his Lost Girls comic?
 
2012-08-14 12:21:38 PM  
TFA: What do you think? Do you respect Moore more for sticking to his guns, or do you think he's nuts for turning down the cash?

Why must this be either/or?
 
2012-08-14 12:21:42 PM  

Electriclectic: Considering that even the best selling comics struggle to top 100k, I sort of doubt it.


Even with those down sales, the comics are quite profitable for the publishers.

But more important aren't those initial monthly sales are the long-term sales from the trade paperbacks, as well as adaptation rights, digital releases, deluxe special editions, and more. A big Watchmen project is a long-term money-maker, and an endorsement by Moore would be a HUGE part of that.

An Alan Moore endorsement on the project probably at least doubles the sales of those collected editions and special editions, as well as gives them shelf longevity they're not going to have otherwise. It also increases the chances that Before Watchmen will be licensed for other mediums. Plus it would have helped stem the deep backlash the comics received. You can bet they would have sold much better if so many people (like myself) refused to even entertain the idea of reading them.

I don't think the figure is far-fetched at all. Had Moore agreed, it would have been a good investment for DC.

(As I recall, Neil Gaiman got paid an absurd amount to do Endless Nights, his much praised return to Sandman)
 
2012-08-14 12:23:49 PM  

Mangoose: Unless WB was planning on turning Watchmen into an Avengers-like media franchise.


This is actually pretty damn likely, considering the prequel comics that they're supposed to be cranking out.
 
2012-08-14 12:23:56 PM  

Mangoose: Electriclectic: Considering that even the best selling comics struggle to top 100k, I sort of doubt it. This isn't "Death of Superman" era where event comics pull in millions of sales.

Really? Is that right? Considering they're all like 3-4 dollars a pop you'd only have to sell like 25 to 34,000 units. Are you telling me that the best selling comics don't move 34,000 units? I would have thought otherwise, especially nowadays.


If the 3-4 dollars were pure profit, sure. But there's a large infrastructure and the writers/artists to pay, plus the cost of the materials themselves.

Here's the sales for July by the big two:

DC Marvel
100k+ 2 2
90K 0 0
80K 1 1
70K 3 0
60K 6 7
50K 3 3
40K 7 7
30K 8 19
20K 14 18
10K 23 7

I'm not saying they're not profitable, but I don't think Alan Moore's endorsement would have been worth $2 mil unless, as someone stated above, they were planning to leverage it into a multi-movie franchise.
 
2012-08-14 12:31:41 PM  
www.cartoonaday.com

For 2 million dollars I would have sold the rights to the "Baby Watchmen" series
 
2012-08-14 12:35:00 PM  
img163.imageshack.us

Oblig.
 
2012-08-14 12:35:30 PM  
Alan Moore needs to get over himself.
 
2012-08-14 12:43:33 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Mangoose: Electriclectic: Considering that even the best selling comics struggle to top 100k, I sort of doubt it. This isn't "Death of Superman" era where event comics pull in millions of sales.

Really? Is that right? Considering they're all like 3-4 dollars a pop you'd only have to sell like 25 to 34,000 units. Are you telling me that the best selling comics don't move 34,000 units? I would have thought otherwise, especially nowadays.

Here's some sales data.

Te majority of the books sell in the 10k to 30k range.

Also, the companies don't make 3 or 4 bucks off the books. They sell 'em to the comic shops for half price.


You're wrong anyway.

The Before Watchmen minis are on the Top 10 and selling around 100K units.

Now, considering there's gonna be like 7-9 minis. 2 million doesn't seem far-fetched against the entire profit the whole thing is gonna generate. Plus with a Moore endorsement, none of the haters would have had any basis to complain. They'd been shut on the spot.
 
2012-08-14 12:44:50 PM  
shoegaze99

Damn you! XD
 
2012-08-14 12:46:47 PM  

shoegaze99: But more important aren't those initial monthly sales are the long-term sales from the trade paperbacks,


God-awful wording. That's what I get for editing but then not checking my edits. That should read, "But more important aren't than those initial monthly sales are the long-term sales from the trade paperbacks,
 
2012-08-14 12:48:23 PM  

madgonad: Doesn't he just write CP under his Lost Girls comic?


Lost Girls was a graphic novel. It's arguably pornographic but it also has real literary and artistic merit. Moore has done enough great work that if he wants to write smut for the rest of his life, he's entitled.
 
2012-08-14 12:53:14 PM  

Electriclectic: I don't think Alan Moore's endorsement would have been worth $2 mil unless, as someone stated above, they were planning to leverage it into a multi-movie franchise.


Agreed. You get a Moore endorsement and these things effectively become canon. They get a dose of legitimacy which means not only would short-term sales get boosted, they'd be issued in collected editions for years and years and years to come. Big, expensive Absolute editions and more.

With Moore poo pooing the whole thing, many people have dismissed these books as professional fan fiction. They're selling fine now because people are curious, like looking at a car wreck, but I don't imagine we'll still see these things on the shelves in 10 or 20 years. Before Watchmen is seen by many as a money-grab; a stunt.

You get Moore's endorsement and that changes. It changes enough, in my opinion, that over the life of the project a $2 million investment would be worthwhile.

These books are selling well now, but I think they ultimately end up being a long-term flop.
 
2012-08-14 12:54:14 PM  
Alan Moore ruined comics with his complexity and literary acumen. I just want dudes in spandex beating on each other, while broads in spandex shoot lightening out their hands and what not.

Alan, frickin', Moore never wrote a Dazzler comic. Now, that would be cool.
 
2012-08-14 12:55:55 PM  
Who knows what evil lies in the heart of man?

Frank Miller knows. It's Alan Moore.
 
2012-08-14 12:56:50 PM  

Eapoe6: Alan, frickin', Moore never wrote a Dazzler comic. Now, that would be cool.


He wrote Rob Liefeld's Supreme. And he made it good. Given what he started with, that's nothing short of miraculous.
 
2012-08-14 01:00:42 PM  

rocky_howard: Now, considering there's gonna be like 7-9 minis. 2 million doesn't seem far-fetched against the entire profit the whole thing is gonna generate. Plus with a Moore endorsement, none of the haters would have had any basis to complain. They'd been shut on the spot.


Plus movie options. A Rorschach or Comedian movie would probably make a ton, especially if you strip the story down to baysplosions.
 
2012-08-14 01:05:09 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Moore may be a crazy old coot who should have retired long ago, but he's not wrong when he says that too many modern comics are shiatty rehashes of his ideas done by hacks that wouldn't know an original idea if it bit them on the ass.


Moore's best stuff was always done with other people characters. And Watchmen lifted the ending from an Episode of The Outer Limits. Moore is such a pretentious twat.
 
2012-08-14 01:11:06 PM  

MickCollins: Moore's best stuff was always done with other people characters


To be fair, that was the original plan: to borrow from the Charlton line. DC then said no, so Moore had to make up his own.
 
2012-08-14 01:12:48 PM  
The original Watchmen is overrated anyway. Frank Miller was better back then, anyway (of course, Frankie lost his talent a lot harder than Alan did, but they both suck now).
 
2012-08-14 01:15:54 PM  

MickCollins: And Watchmen lifted the ending from an Episode of The Outer Limits. Moore is such a pretentious twat.


The Outer Limits lifted the ending from Theodore Sturgeon's "Unite and Conquer." The Outer Limits is such a pretentious show.
 
2012-08-14 01:23:04 PM  

Trocadero: (of course, Frankie lost his talent a lot harder than Alan did, but they both suck now)


Moore barely writes comics anymore, so it's hard to say he sucks as something he's not even doing. An occasional LOEG book and that's it. (Lost Girls may have been released in the last few years, but that had been in production since 1991 so you can't really consider it recent work.)

The last time he was regularly writing comics was during his time producing the ABC books, and they were some of the best he's done. Promethea, Top Ten, Tom Strong, all that stuff was top notch. He stepped out of comic writing after that.
 
2012-08-14 01:25:36 PM  
Anyone else remember The Watchmen cartoon from the 80s?

Link
 
2012-08-14 01:40:25 PM  

rocky_howard: FirstNationalBastard: Mangoose: Electriclectic: Considering that even the best selling comics struggle to top 100k, I sort of doubt it. This isn't "Death of Superman" era where event comics pull in millions of sales.

Really? Is that right? Considering they're all like 3-4 dollars a pop you'd only have to sell like 25 to 34,000 units. Are you telling me that the best selling comics don't move 34,000 units? I would have thought otherwise, especially nowadays.

Here's some sales data.

Te majority of the books sell in the 10k to 30k range.

Also, the companies don't make 3 or 4 bucks off the books. They sell 'em to the comic shops for half price.

You're wrong anyway.

The Before Watchmen minis are on the Top 10 and selling around 100K units.

Now, considering there's gonna be like 7-9 minis. 2 million doesn't seem far-fetched against the entire profit the whole thing is gonna generate. Plus with a Moore endorsement, none of the haters would have had any basis to complain. They'd been shut on the spot.


From the link you didn't read, I'm betting...

Before Watchmen has a good drop in month #2. The Ozymandius #1 is tops at 88K. At the bottom of that spectrum is the second Silk Spectre issue at 61,563. That's a bit more of a drop than you'd like to see.

And what were the month 1 Silk Spectre sales?

114,394

Half its readers in one month. Yeah, these books aren't going to get old and bottom out in sales real quick.

Please note, these are pre-order numbers, not actual sold copies. So, half of these could be moldering on comic shop shelves.
 
2012-08-14 01:45:47 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: And what were the month 1 Silk Spectre sales?

114,394

Half its readers in one month. Yeah, these books aren't going to get old and bottom out in sales real quick.


Comic series drop a high percentage from issue #1 to issue #2? Color me shocked. SHOCKED!! Dude, that's always been the case. #1 numbers are always inflated due to novelty, "collectors" and other factors.

Please note, these are pre-order numbers, not actual sold copies. So, half of these could be moldering on comic shop shelves.

Yeah, except it's not true. Plus it's an invalid point anyway since reporting store orders is standard procedure in the industry since forever.
 
2012-08-14 01:52:45 PM  

rocky_howard: FirstNationalBastard: And what were the month 1 Silk Spectre sales?

114,394

Half its readers in one month. Yeah, these books aren't going to get old and bottom out in sales real quick.

Comic series drop a high percentage from issue #1 to issue #2? Color me shocked. SHOCKED!! Dude, that's always been the case. #1 numbers are always inflated due to novelty, "collectors" and other factors.

Please note, these are pre-order numbers, not actual sold copies. So, half of these could be moldering on comic shop shelves.

Yeah, except it's not true. Plus it's an invalid point anyway since reporting store orders is standard procedure in the industry since forever.


Yeah, pre-order numbers are the numbers sold to stores. But they're not the numbers actually sold to customers. So, half the issues sold to stores could be sitting on shelves until they get dumped in the dollar bin.
 
2012-08-14 01:58:42 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Yeah, pre-order numbers are the numbers sold to stores. But they're not the numbers actually sold to customers. So, half the issues sold to stores could be sitting on shelves until they get dumped in the dollar bin.


But that's just speculation. Plus the success of a series is not measured in numbers sold to customers. Know why? Because nobody tracks that.

There's an easy way to figure it out though. Check out how many comics the stores order for the next issue and that's your answer. Stores aren't gonna order what ain't selling. So yeah, what you said it's not true.
 
2012-08-14 01:59:50 PM  
I don't care. We were promised nine books of "The Ballad of Halo Jones" and only received three. He needs to stop dicking about in American comics and finish the job at home.
 
2012-08-14 02:03:33 PM  

rocky_howard: FirstNationalBastard: Yeah, pre-order numbers are the numbers sold to stores. But they're not the numbers actually sold to customers. So, half the issues sold to stores could be sitting on shelves until they get dumped in the dollar bin.

But that's just speculation. Plus the success of a series is not measured in numbers sold to customers. Know why? Because nobody tracks that.

There's an easy way to figure it out though. Check out how many comics the stores order for the next issue and that's your answer. Stores aren't gonna order what ain't selling. So yeah, what you said it's not true.


Ah, but as you said, the first issue is a gamble. The second is cut, and the third issue of a series is usually accurate. So, when the sales are shiat for issue #3, you will see that your "Selling at 100k!" proclamation is wrong. Hell, it's wrong for the second issues, by quite a bit so it seems.
 
2012-08-14 02:07:49 PM  

The_Sponge: Anyone else remember The Watchmen cartoon from the 80s?

Link


Realized I didn't link it in my post, came back to do it; felt obligated to watch it again. Truly, 60 seconds of pure genius.
 
2012-08-14 02:11:49 PM  

likefunbutnot: madgonad: Doesn't he just write CP under his Lost Girls comic?

Lost Girls was a graphic novel. It's arguably pornographic but it also has real literary and artistic merit. Moore has done enough great work that if he wants to write smut for the rest of his life, he's entitled.


Literary and artistic merit are completely in the eye of the beholder. However, drawing and describing underage CHILDREN having sex is by definition CP.

Using soft lighting and focus does not turn pron into art, likewise - just because it comes from a skilled artist doesn't mean Lost Girls isn't CP.
 
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