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(Huffington Post)   Old and busted: stripping Penn State of football wins. The new hotness: stripping Penn State of its academic accreditation   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 95
    More: Interesting, Penn State, Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, university presidents, accreditation, NCAA, scandals  
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15705 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Aug 2012 at 7:18 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-08-14 07:33:16 AM  
6 votes:
My grandfather went there. I went there. My sister and her husband went there. My nephew goes there.
I got this to say to PSU.

Well, Bye.
2012-08-14 08:43:08 AM  
5 votes:
You can't punish our football team, innocent people may be harmed!

You can't punish our institution, innocent people may be harmed!

/innocent people were harmed
//that's why both are being punished
2012-08-14 07:34:10 AM  
5 votes:
I'm actually really against that. Think how many random non-football-loving Penn State alumni and students there now who would legitimately be seriously hurt by this.
2012-08-14 07:21:37 AM  
5 votes:
Yelp I'm having a really hard time giving a fark for them.
2012-08-14 08:15:07 AM  
4 votes:

Kyro: One asshole and his prick friends cover up some insidious actions, and that's an excuse to punish tens of thousands of innocent staff and alumni that were just as disgusted and angry as the rest of the country?

Stop being stupid.


A few dozen people at Enron committed crimes and 20,000 people lost their jobs and shareholders lost over 70 billion dollars. The world isn't always fair.
2012-08-14 08:02:55 AM  
4 votes:

Animatronik: Penn State is a world class university, which has nothing to do with Paterno or the administrators who looked the other way.

They shouldnt destroy the university over this, just make institute reforms.


In which world? Paterno and the administrators who looked the other way (one of whom is the president of PSU) somehow have nothing to do with the university? In fact, the football culture was so strong and pervasive in Happy Valley that Joe Pa literally had more power than the university president until this story blew. No, the school shouldn't be destroyed. After the accrediting authorities and lawsuits get through pauperizing the school, it might just have the makings of a mighty fine community college.
2012-08-14 07:40:50 AM  
4 votes:

hornblowerfan: This is ridiculously stupid and unwarranted. Do not penalize inmocent students for what the football staff has done. Even now, there are 4 young-ish people in my department at work who are Penn State graduates and who practically wear black ribbons to mourn the loss of their careers.


The problem is it wasn't just the football staff. Several major University officials including the former president are implicated in the cover-up. The involvement of non-athletic department university officials is threatening the accredation. If the rumors are true and Sandusky farmed out boys to Second Mile donors and PSU boosters, PSU is toast.
2012-08-14 07:36:19 AM  
4 votes:
thats great, they will punish everyone but the people responsible. the people responsible will still get their pensions and negotiated retirements. the educators, support staff, students and surrounding community will be the ones to suffer. gotta love good ole murican justice. murica fark yeah!
2012-08-14 07:35:10 AM  
4 votes:
This is ridiculously stupid and unwarranted. Do not penalize inmocent students for what the football staff has done. Even now, there are 4 young-ish people in my department at work who are Penn State graduates and who practically wear black ribbons to mourn the loss of their careers.
2012-08-14 07:30:08 AM  
4 votes:
Fine, assuming they lose their accreditation, the school is toast at that point. Students can transfer to other schools...the campus basically becomes a ghost town. What happens with the physical school itself?
2012-08-14 07:26:31 AM  
4 votes:
I'm pretty sure I was wondering of the students should sue because that Penn State degrees could become toxic and not worth what they paid for anymore.
Still wondering that now.
2012-08-14 09:52:41 AM  
3 votes:

Kyro: The Muthaship: Punishing an institution for wrongdoing is, itself, a wrong now?

You're not punishing the institution. You're punishing every current and recent employee, as well as every alumni that earned that school's degree.

You want to punish the entire administration? Remove the administration. Hold THEM accountable. Why the fark should the janitor that's been there 30 years be punished? Why should all of Penn State's students be punished for what Sandusky and some of the school's officials pulled?

I don't recall anyone wanting to punish USC for O.J.


www.climategate.com
...until it is time to share any blame.
2012-08-14 09:08:31 AM  
3 votes:
Rhythmic slapping. You would think that would put everything in perspective. The people of this fine college town should stick a plunger up their ass and rhythmically jam it in and out several hundred times. I don't think they are exhibiting the right level of empathy yet.
2012-08-14 09:02:39 AM  
3 votes:

Kyro: I don't recall anyone wanting to punish USC for O.J.


Did the administration, up to and including the president of the university take active steps to cover up O.J.'s crime? Perhaps over a course of years? I'd say the issue of potentially revoking their accreditation has to do with the gross misfeasance and malfeasance perpetrated by the administration of the school in handling this scandal. They aren't being punished for what Sandusky did, they are being punished for what they did and didn't do If they behaved this way in this instance, there are likely other examples of their ineptitude. My guess is, having a crooked administration lead a school that is accredited reflects badly on the Middle States Commission on Higher Education. I doubt they like that.
2012-08-14 08:48:28 AM  
3 votes:

Kyro: Yeah. Everyone knows two wrongs make JUSTICE.


Punishing an institution for wrongdoing is, itself, a wrong now?
2012-08-14 08:45:16 AM  
3 votes:
The thread: Innocent students are being punished because of the football program!

The article: The Sandusky investigation revealed that the school administration is dysfunctional and they need to get it together or lose accreditation. It does not reflect on the quality of education the student are receiving.
2012-08-14 08:29:27 AM  
3 votes:
Won't somebody think of the students??? Bwhahahahahahahahaaaa!!!



The teachers allowed sub par students (athletes to Penn State graduates) to pass.
This action sanctioned and demanded by the school administration.
When a tower of shiat collapses, you gonna get slimed.
This school is not the only one that needs a huge enema.
If you are a real student....should have been smart enough to chose another school.......
Papa Joe would never....yea and the police never lie....
2012-08-14 08:13:13 AM  
3 votes:

Rincewind53: I'm actually really against that. Think how many random non-football-loving Penn State alumni and students there now who would legitimately be seriously hurt by this.


True.

But think of this. If they set the precedent that looking the other way can cost you YOUR ENTIRE SCHOOL then it is MUCH less likely to happen again at another school.

I think there is a system-wide problem in looking the other way for sports teams in schools and going nuclear on Penn State would certainly help clean up that shiat.

And the current students can simply transfer. That's an inconvenience at most.
2012-08-14 07:59:22 AM  
3 votes:

Rincewind53: greentea1985: hornblowerfan: This is ridiculously stupid and unwarranted. Do not penalize inmocent students for what the football staff has done. Even now, there are 4 young-ish people in my department at work who are Penn State graduates and who practically wear black ribbons to mourn the loss of their careers.

The problem is it wasn't just the football staff. Several major University officials including the former president are implicated in the cover-up. The involvement of non-athletic department university officials is threatening the accredation. If the rumors are true and Sandusky farmed out boys to Second Mile donors and PSU boosters, PSU is toast.

So farking what? Do any of those major University officials run the academic programs? Does the Sandusky scandal indicate anything about the academic performance of Penn State students? Is the quality of teachers in question? No.

/not a Penn State grade or football fan


Because the officials are expected to have some control over the faculty and staff. I think the real fear is the massive settlements to Sandusky victims coupled with the loss of income from the football program will cause the academic departments to be gutted, reducing the value of a PSU degree. That's why the accreditation organization wants to know how much money PSU has. If they think there isn't enough to cover the settlements without destroying academics, they'll pre-emptively remove PSU's accreditation.
2012-08-14 07:54:02 AM  
3 votes:

Rincewind53: greentea1985: hornblowerfan: This is ridiculously stupid and unwarranted. Do not penalize inmocent students for what the football staff has done. Even now, there are 4 young-ish people in my department at work who are Penn State graduates and who practically wear black ribbons to mourn the loss of their careers.

The problem is it wasn't just the football staff. Several major University officials including the former president are implicated in the cover-up. The involvement of non-athletic department university officials is threatening the accredation. If the rumors are true and Sandusky farmed out boys to Second Mile donors and PSU boosters, PSU is toast.

So farking what? Do any of those major University officials run the academic programs? Does the Sandusky scandal indicate anything about the academic performance of Penn State students? Is the quality of teachers in question? No.

/not a Penn State grade or football fan


They agreed to certain standards to get accredited. Sucks for them if they've failed to adhere to those standards.
2012-08-14 07:50:40 AM  
3 votes:
Well just call me part of the mob that thinks they should get bent over.
2012-08-14 07:38:38 AM  
3 votes:
After the school closes and everyone moves out, I suggest nuking the site with a tactical meteor. Make it our Tunguska. Only way to be sure.
2012-08-14 07:38:12 AM  
3 votes:
Revoking Penn State's entire academic accreditation ranks as the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Did the Computer Science Department train Sandusky to create Excel spreadsheets for tracking vulnerable children? Did the English Department teach him to write loving sonnets and whisper them sweetly to young boys as he twirled his fingers in their hair? Did the psychology department tutor him in manipulation techniques? No, no, and no. Why should the faculty, support staff, and students of these areas be punished for the crimes of the athletic department?

As outlined in the Freech report, the low level employees of the athletic department were responsible for recruiting young boys by way of various football camps. The underlings, like McQueary, got the scraps while the choice pickings were sent up the line to Sandusky. Sandusky, along with those of similar rank, then tested the boys with various forms of sexual abuse. The cream of the crop -- the 1-2% out of the hundreds of applicants -- were then sent up to Paterno who basically wrote the book on sodomy. When Paterno was done with the kid, he'd have sex with him one last time while slitting his throat. The janitors of the athletic department would then discard the bodies in the incinerators. As Freech pointed out, this system went on for decades. It ran so smoothly that no one detected a thing. It wasn't until McQueary sent a boy with herpes up the chain that Sandusky got angry and threatened to fire him. McQueary, whose wife was battling ovarian cancer at the time, couldn't afford to lose his medical benefits, so he blew the proverbial whistle.

Yet even with all of those facts, the NCAA just slapped their wrists and sent them to the corner for a little while. If I was a Penn State student, I would dig up Paterno myself and defile his corpse with an ax handle. As to why Sandusky is still alive testifies to the far reach of college football. I'm sure he's promising scholarships to every inmate with a hard on or a shank. He will get his in hell.

The academic departments at Penn State have their own controversies - experimenting on disabled children, sex for grades, undergrad knife fights - all of which need to be addressed, but not lumped into the Penn State Athletics Boy farking Factory.
2012-08-14 07:37:39 AM  
3 votes:
And the feds are still looking in to the rumor that Sandusky was trading kid smut with a prominent booster.
2012-08-14 07:29:12 AM  
3 votes:
Shouldn't accreditation be contingent on robust procedures for dealing with academic misconduct? A system which insists that football players be exempt from all disciplinary procedures does not quite meet that requirement.
2012-08-14 05:04:53 PM  
2 votes:
i.imgur.com

What's shocking is that JoePa is the guy who just keeps giving back to Penn State...

...and that even for all the crap Penn State is getting buried under because of his coverup and culture of special treatment for players and coaches, Penn State fanatics still defend him.

I think it is wrong to consider stripping accreditation over this, and it's also wrong to consider any degree from PSU to be tainted, but continuing to claim that JoePa ran a program steeped in integrity is laughable, at best. In some ways, it's that defense of Joe Paterno that has officials overreacting, if only to give those defenders a big ol' cup of STFU.

Seriously, these people need to think hard about what they say... back in November, all we heard was how innocent JoePa was, and how mistreated he was in all this. One Farker even explained, in great detail how Sandusky and Paterno were not, nor ever were friends or business associates (completely false), and how the great JoePa would never have ignored such an allegation is anybody had actually told him. For the defenders, the goalposts keep changing - but i suspect all of them think, deep down, this is all some horrible frame up of their almighty idol, and if they continue to make their arguments, no matter how irrational, that their version fo the "truth" will somehow become reality, even if they can't really defend his actions without getting laughed out of the forums they post in.

Let's face it... JoePa didn't have the moral fortitude or ethical grounding to see that justice was served in a case of child rape, so that his program would not be tainted by the allegations - REALLY THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A MINUTE - but you'd have us believe that he would have the integrity to drop a player for academic issues or discipline a starting player for violating the law by suspending him for a big game? Part of JoePa's "legacy" was dependent on how he "nurtured" student players into men... but do you defenders honestly expect ANYBODY ELSE to think that he'd never fake that image of "integrity" when it came to players, even if he was willing to cover up and abet further his pal and business partner Sandusky anally raping little boys?

Ever heard of the term "In for a penny, in for a pound?"

In this case, it's "In for a pound, in for a penny", because the idea that he would not cover up academic and discipline issues to make his program look clean, while covering up and abetting child rape is like saying Jeffery Dahmer wouldn't dream of spitting chewing gum on the sidewalk, in defiance of a sign noting the city ordinance against it, even as he was escorting his next victim back to his apartment.

It's also clear the program at Penn State was held in such reverence by the fanatics, that many of the people who knew things were going on would (and will) never reveal how dirty the program was. Is it any wonder the program needed to be sanctioned?

As I have said since November, it is going to get very uncomfortable for fans of Penn State before the dust settles. They are under the microscope, and it's made worse by the arrogant, misguided attitude of some BoT members and students to yell "bring it on" (while those with more knowledge are trying to nudge them and say , "shut up and take what we've been given and hope it blows over before they find out how deep the rot is")
2012-08-14 09:49:31 AM  
2 votes:

IAmRight: Naw, they just knew about this and continued to employ him and continued to watch him work with at-risk kids for years, paying for him to go to Thailand and "work with" youth there. But naw, there's nothing reprehensible about their actions. Totally not the same, situations where the institution knew about a faculty member's pedophilia thanks to it being reported to police, the faculty member using connections to keep himself out of jail, and the university continuing to employ the person and pay for them to have sex with minors.


Notice that he was arrested and brought to trial and punished and how he wasn't protected for fourteen years by the administration who had full knowledge of his crimes in order to protect the reputation and revenues of the econ department? Whereas Sandusky was raping children on Penn State property with the full knowledge of JoePa and other administrative officials who covered it up for fourteen years to protect the program

The two situations are not analogous.
2012-08-14 09:45:57 AM  
2 votes:

Kyro: Carth: Did you read the article? The accreditation board is concerned with Penn State not being able to pay their bills. A school losing accreditation because it can't meet financial obligations isn't exactly a new phenomenon. Do you think Penn State should be exempt from the rules because their financial troubles come from legal problems?

Oh please. Don't be so dense. This is entirely the MSC rattling its sabre so they don't get viewed as looking the other way on the matter as Paterno did. They're covering their own asses by threatening to burn the whole building down.


You didn't answer the question. If Penn State can't cover their financial obligations should they be treated like other schools and lose their accreditation?
2012-08-14 09:41:29 AM  
2 votes:

Kyro: HotWingConspiracy: So in your mind, it doesn't matter if an institution agreed to certain standards to get accredited, those standards can simply be ignored because actually enforcing them will negatively impact members of the institution.

I think that holding tens of thousands of people's livelihoods hostage over the administrative policy that was applied(or not applied) to one man is retarded. Punish the individuals involved, not the entire goddamn institution.


Did you read the article? The accreditation board is concerned with Penn State not being able to pay their bills. A school losing accreditation because it can't meet financial obligations isn't exactly a new phenomenon. Do you think Penn State should be exempt from the rules because their financial troubles come from legal problems?
2012-08-14 09:33:20 AM  
2 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: Kyro: The Muthaship: I'd say the issue of potentially revoking their accreditation has to do with the gross misfeasance and malfeasance perpetrated by the administration of the school in handling this scandal.

99% of the people that will be hurt by removing their accreditation are not administration. You're talking about a school that's got close to 100,000 students and 10,000 employees. You're supporting costing thousands of people their degrees and their jobs(in a fairly condensed area, tough luck local economy), just to nail a handful of individuals? Why are you scratching an itch with a bomb?

So in your mind, it doesn't matter if an institution agreed to certain standards to get accredited, those standards can simply be ignored because actually enforcing them will negatively impact members of the institution.


If their accreditation was removed because they fail to meet the requirements of accreditation, that's different from "One of their old coaches is a pedophile, so we need to remove their accreditation" which seems to be what most of the people who didn't read the article seem to think is happening.
2012-08-14 09:27:05 AM  
2 votes:
I see a ton of overreaction and overstatement here. This wasn't even a threat, it was a warning. And yeah, any place where you can get away with something like the Sandusky thing for years should result in regular punitive reporting on your leadership structure to ensure that your university isn't structurally flawed and is able to manage itself. They DO need to have reasonable measures to, for instance, not just give people grades for nothing.

Also, if Penn State goes under tomorrow, that means nothing to the diplomas alumni hold. Maybe their reputation goes down a little. Then again, I got a diploma from a crap school and no one ever asks me about it beyond "Do you have a BS? Great!" I have eclipsed my credential by actually doing my job with proficiency and flashes of brilliance since I graduated so no one really cares.

\Overstatements about something that is over blown.

\\I love the smell of fark in the morning.

\\\Smells like Derp-tory!
2012-08-14 09:22:54 AM  
2 votes:

Alpha Sierra Foxtrot: Who, exactly, is going to continue going to a non-accredited university?


Whoever wants to?

Are you suggesting that PSU's ability to market itself is more important than taking appropriate action against it when it does wrong? Are they too big to fail? This board of accreditation has a right to look at the institutions it endorses. If they don't live up to the well defined standards they've established, they have the right to revoke accreditation. What does it mean for the other schools accredited by that body if a school that engages in criminal activities at the highest level gets to maintain its accreditation? What does it mean for prospective students looking at schools to choose. What then would other schools have to do to lose their accreditation in the future.

I understand PSU is a long standing, and very popular institution with which many people identify. That should not exempt it from punishment for wrongdoing, just as it doesn't mean people who went their and earned degrees are diminished in any way by this scandal.
2012-08-14 09:15:59 AM  
2 votes:

Kyro: You're supporting costing thousands of people their degrees and their jobs


No one loses their degree, no one necessarily loses their job. Whether or not the school loses their accreditation has no effect on their ability to run the school. It is a voluntary membership organization. They can also apply for re-accreditation later (in the unlikely event they actually lose it). Do you want colleges run by people whose SOP is covering up crimes of a very serious nature to be accredited institutions? I don't.
2012-08-14 09:08:15 AM  
2 votes:
The NCAA's weak half-measure of a punishment was the crescendo of this whole thing in the public's eyes. They consider this over; any more punishment will be seen as cruel. It's infuriating to think about, really, so I do my best not to consider the fact that not even institutionalized child rape is enough to bring about real change at a university. That's not what the people want, they want it all to be over now. This football season the healing will begin, as if PSU was itself somehow grievously harmed.
2012-08-14 08:44:14 AM  
2 votes:
It seems to me that a strong, credible threat of possibly losing accreditation (and thereby destroying the school) will serve as a strong incentive to PSU administration and other university admins to get their houses in order.

Losing it shouldn't just be a punishment for wrongdoing, it should be a rather big stick used to beat some sense into the school to make them ensure it NEVER happens again.
2012-08-14 08:23:10 AM  
2 votes:

Kyro: Carth: A few dozen people at Enron committed crimes and 20,000 people lost their jobs and shareholders lost over 70 billion dollars. The world isn't always fair.

Ah.. so that's justification to intentionally punish thousands of others who had nothing to do with it.

Your punishment for the US's role in the Trail of Tears is pending. Sorry. The world isn't always fair.


Hindsight is 20/20. People get punished for things completely out of their control every day. I feel bad for the innocent PSU grads if this does actually happen, but they won't be the first or last collateral damage of a major incident.
2012-08-14 07:59:28 AM  
2 votes:
What scares me about Penn state is that I have no reason to believe that other school administrations (or any other bureaucracy) isn't capable of something similar.

Maybe we'll get to a point where administration will shrewdly decide its in their best interest to take a small amount of bad PR now rather than cover it up and risk a huge scandal.
2012-08-14 07:51:20 AM  
2 votes:
media.comicbookmovie.com
2012-08-14 07:47:41 AM  
2 votes:

Rincewind53: greentea1985: hornblowerfan: This is ridiculously stupid and unwarranted. Do not penalize inmocent students for what the football staff has done. Even now, there are 4 young-ish people in my department at work who are Penn State graduates and who practically wear black ribbons to mourn the loss of their careers.

The problem is it wasn't just the football staff. Several major University officials including the former president are implicated in the cover-up. The involvement of non-athletic department university officials is threatening the accredation. If the rumors are true and Sandusky farmed out boys to Second Mile donors and PSU boosters, PSU is toast.

So farking what? Do any of those major University officials run the academic programs? Does the Sandusky scandal indicate anything about the academic performance of Penn State students? Is the quality of teachers in question? No.

/not a Penn State grade or football fan


Wasn't one of the University officials the report said helped coverup child rape the president of the college?
2012-08-14 07:45:25 AM  
2 votes:
My problem with this is that the punishment goes back to the students instead of the school itself, or more importantly, the administration. The fine levied against Penn St.? They said it reduced the amount of scholarships available for new and continuing students. And now, removing accreditation once again only hurts the students. I think all or almost all of the upper echelon of administration should be fired or maybe even personally fined if possible. Let the president of the school have to personally pay for the penalty. I know that my alma mater was smaller than Penn State, and the Chancellor made more money than the President of the United States--I think the leader of Penn State could afford it.
2012-08-14 07:42:33 AM  
2 votes:
ARTFA, it's pretty clear their primary issue is money: after PSU gets sued into oblivion, will they still be able to function as a real school? It doesn't appear to be aimed at the Sandusky incident directly.
2012-08-14 07:41:59 AM  
2 votes:
So all those degrees in Creative Linebacking aren't going to be worth diddly squat?
2012-08-15 07:39:00 AM  
1 votes:

Something_Creative: My problem with this is that the punishment goes back to the students instead of the school itself, or more importantly, the administration. The fine levied against Penn St.? They said it reduced the amount of scholarships available for new and continuing students. And now, removing accreditation once again only hurts the students. I think all or almost all of the upper echelon of administration should be fired or maybe even personally fined if possible. Let the president of the school have to personally pay for the penalty. I know that my alma mater was smaller than Penn State, and the Chancellor made more money than the President of the United States--I think the leader of Penn State could afford it.


The people who argue this....you understand it's like saying, "Don't send that sexual predator to prison, it'll only hurt his family," don't you? You do understand there are consequences for misdeeds, and yes, often there is collateral damage to the innocent? But how can that be helped? They are additional victims of the original perpetrators, they are not being victimized anew by the forces of justice. Should people be spared prison time because their families will be harmed by their absence?

The crimes committed here were - and I know this is a big word, so just try to understand - institutional, meaning they were aided and abetted all the way up the ladder to the very president of the university. Students will be harmed by the subsequent punishment? Ok, true...but how do you help that and still serve the interest of justice? Are you saying the school should suffer no penalties because innocents will then suffer the result of consequences levied against the school for its crimes? Did you follow that argument to its logical conclusion before stating it?
2012-08-14 09:45:35 PM  
1 votes:

CapnBlues: Unless... I can't remember, are you one of the users here that has just always hated PSU and is using this as your opportunity to hurt the whole school? I've been gone from fark for a few months, so i don't remember. Your name is familiar to me. In fact, this conversation is reminding me why I've been gone from fark for a few months. Forget it, have a good one, man. All the best to you.


Yes that is obviously it. Im part of some vast underground cionspiracy that has always hated PSU for no reason whatsoever. We are hell bent on hurting PSU and nobody knows why.

I bet they teach about this vast conspiracy in PSU history courses dont they?
2012-08-14 09:39:40 PM  
1 votes:
"It is critical to emphasize that Middle States does not issue a warning unless the commission believes that an institution has the capacity to make appropriate improvements within a reasonable period and then sustain itself to stay in compliance," Bowen said in the statement. "This certainly is true for Penn State. We're confident that our monitoring report and the site visit will confirm this to the commission."

Basically, they are saying, "show us how you will ensure that this will never happen again". And they seem to be confident that Penn State will answer the mail adequately.
2012-08-14 08:55:14 PM  
1 votes:

IAmRight: Aarontology: I'm all for killing their football program, but this is farking insane.

Oh, right, because it's all football's fault that the president gave the guy powers. And it's so unique a situation and every other school would get killed if they enabled a pedophile to operate for years within their midst.

We'll ignore the econ professor who was linked to earlier at UPenn who was known as a child rapist for years and no one knows about. It's because the econ program was too strong! Damn economics-loving America!

It's ridiculous to punish the individuals involved and not the whole school when it's a professor, but when its an ex-football coach, well, sh*t, it's all football's fault and football has to take all the punishment!


Were the the Penn President and the Board of Trustees actively engaged in a 14 year coverup of this while it continued to occur, meathead?
2012-08-14 08:31:26 PM  
1 votes:

IAmRight: He was also working on a case involving the mob at the time.


Citation?
/No chevys
2012-08-14 08:18:22 PM  
1 votes:
liam76:

Want to provide proof as to how you know a significant number of students were exempt from academic conduct rules?

static7.businessinsider.com
2012-08-14 06:40:31 PM  
1 votes:
Before the scandal broke, if you told people you had a degree from Penn State, they'd think "oh, that school where they worship football"

Now, if you tell people that, they think, "oh, that school where they used to worship football."

Sorry guys, I can't find it in me to feel bad for you.
2012-08-14 03:29:30 PM  
1 votes:

just_intonation: The Muthaship: Kyro: Yeah. Everyone knows two wrongs make JUSTICE.

Punishing an institution for wrongdoing is, itself, a wrong now?

Only if the institution is guilty of wrongdoing, and not individuals.

Make a reasonable and logical argument as to why PSU should lose its accreditation as a punishment for the Sandusky scandal rather than the punishments that have already been levied by the NCAA and internally. Sandusky and anyone (staff, faculty or administration) who knowingly turned a blind eye to his behavior should be drawn and quartered, but PSU losing their academic accreditation as further punishment is ludicrous. There is no justice in that. Do all the employees of a major corporation lose their jobs when the CEO, CFO or other C-level exec is accused and convicted of a crime -- even one as heinous as Sandusky's? I think not...


You do realize that losing accreditation isn't punishment for what Sandusky did and the coverup the school took place in. Their accreditation is in question mainly because their is a real possibility that the civil suits that are going to result from the scandal will leave them financially unstable. Part of the accreditation commissions is to make sure that a school is financially stable and won't close its doors or have to cut classes halfway through a semester leaving students out in the cold after they paid tuition.

So losing their accreditation is a result of the coverup, and karmically punishment, but it is not a direct punishment for what they did.
2012-08-14 02:29:31 PM  
1 votes:
Accreditation committees look at a lot more than the academics of an institution. My college received one for the dysfunctional behavior of its Board of Trustees. They wanted to see a plan implemented for reducing what they felt was inappropriate micromanagement. The problem was addressed and the warning was lifted. They also look for fiscal management, staffing, and governance issues. These are all things that have a great deal to do with an institution's ability to function to proper accredited standards. From the article, this is what the accreditation board is looking at with Penn State, and for good reason. But a warning is not the last step before accreditation is stripped -- there's probation, and other steps. Losing accreditation usually takes a few years. I doubt that this will happen to Penn State.
2012-08-14 01:55:42 PM  
1 votes:
For the Butt Hurt PSU defenders:

Except for some OSU fans, this is not about PSU in particular. Most of us couldn't care less about college football - the NFL is a far better game and more conveniently scheduled. This is about corruption so extreme in American academia that the sexual assault of children became OK across multiple departments (google Lasgaga and Neisworth). The only reason PSU has been allowed to continue to exist even this long is because it's a school. Any other institution would have been shuttered in weeks if not days. PSU can scream "nothing is more important than education! it's for our future!" and get at least a delay and possible pass where no one else could ("it's for the children!" probably doesn't work anymore, though). This shouldn't be the case. No person or institution is supposed to be above the law.

It's pretty obvious that this has been going on for a long time at many different schools. If there is a reason to pick on PSU in particular, it is the astounding arrogance in which the school's admins, profs, staff, and students have behaved in this case.

If they could shut down Wharton, the Citadel, LA County Public Schools, or any other academic institution that has pulling this garbage, we'd cheer just as hard.
2012-08-14 01:35:53 PM  
1 votes:
It's funny all the people who think this is going too far for Penn State were at best awfully quiet or outright cheering when these guys paid the ultimate price:

www.infoservices.com

/those poor, poor accountants who had their lives ruined and had nothing to do with Enron
2012-08-14 12:10:11 PM  
1 votes:

LiberalEastCoastElitist: What scares me about Penn state is that I have no reason to believe that other school administrations (or any other bureaucracy) isn't capable of something similar.


the cult of Penn State was heavily dependent on the image of Paterno. I agree that this could probably happen elsewhere, but the breadth of this scandal was made possible by the fact that this cult had a leader. That isn't true everywhere.
2012-08-14 11:59:27 AM  
1 votes:
Just look at all these farks I give!

1.bp.blogspot.com

/this is why you don't protect child farkers
2012-08-14 11:56:30 AM  
1 votes:
There is a whole lot of stupid in this thread.

This warning from the accreditation commission isn't an attack on Penn State or piling on like some in this thread are claiming. This is a very warranted investigation into the financial stability of the school. Penn State is looking at millions of dollars in settlements it is going to have to pay as a result of this scandal and right now know body knows exactly how many people will come forward. So this scandal is going to tie Penn State up financially for years. If Penn State is unable to show that they have enough money to remain stable they will have their accreditation either pulled or be put on probation.

In a situation like this, this is a real concern. Unless you think that it is ok for a school to remain accredited when there is a real possibility that it could run out of money and either close its doors or cut classes halfway through a semester and tell students that have already paid tuition too bad.
2012-08-14 10:55:13 AM  
1 votes:

CapnBlues: When will the vengeance be satisfied?


Probably after PSU cult members admit cultural culpability and try to change the culture that allowed this to happen rather than propping it up and furthermore put in place some transparent outside oversight to ensure that not only are other transgressions brought to light but also that this sort of thing never happens again at Penn State. Unless and until that happens the whole place is a slimy cesspit of hiding places for whatever it is they enjoy hiding at PSU. Or when its nuked from orbit for being a slimy unreformed unapologetic cesspit, Whichever
2012-08-14 10:43:13 AM  
1 votes:

gremlin1: What Sandusky did was wrong and horrible. Joe should have told the police and not just kicked it up the ladder. But had Sandusky robbed a bank would they be punishing the entire University,students, and town.
Everyone wants to jump on the beat up PSU bandwagon. It's the new Salem Witch Trials.Burn them at the stake just because it's entertaining.



Had Sandusky been systematically robbing banks for over a decade while the football Program and University Leaders been knowledgeable and actively involved in the cover-up of said serial crime, it still would have been a pretty big deal. Not as big of a deal as what it currently is, but that's because it's silly to imply that the two crimes are even closer to similar in degree of heinousness.

It's important to note that most of what Penn State is eating right now is a result of the cover-up, not the crime (which is usually how it works).
2012-08-14 10:40:26 AM  
1 votes:

Pavia_Resistance: MAYORBOB: Animatronik: Penn State is a world class university, which has nothing to do with Paterno or the administrators who looked the other way.

They shouldnt destroy the university over this, just make institute reforms.

In which world?

The same one that you and I reside in. Ranked 51st in the world according to this list Link


Check back in a couple of years, especially if the school loses its accreditation.
2012-08-14 10:31:28 AM  
1 votes:
FTFA:

The commission said in an Aug. 8 notice that Penn State remains accredited while "on warning" but it wants a monitoring report submitted by the end of next month detailing steps taken to ensure full compliance with governmental requirements, that the university's mission is being carried out, that the commission will be fully informed and that Penn State is complying with standards on leadership and governance as well as integrity.



Yeah about that... not gonna happen. PSU has already sued and won in court the right to not give up any records (as they are were peviously required to do as a publicly funded entity) presumably because bad things happen to PSU when people look too closely at what Penn State does. Expect a long assed expensive court battle from PSU against anything and anybody trying to excercise any sort of right to know with PSU. Their flowers wilt badly under the light of public scrutiny.
2012-08-14 10:31:20 AM  
1 votes:
Sometimes actions taken by a school's administrators may in fact put their school's accreditation at risk. Sometimes a school's accreditation is removed and yes, any students of that school suffer the consequences. This system is important though, and those students who end up suffering are not more important than the overall program goal of identifying which schools are able to provide a quality education to potential customers.

So this triggered a review of PSU. I doubt that they will lose their accreditation, but if they do....big deal. Current high school students need to be made aware of a school that is no longer capable of holding up its end of the education bargain.
2012-08-14 10:29:35 AM  
1 votes:

YouWinAgainGravity: Everyone ever connected with Penn State needs to be given the death penalty. Anyone with a PSU degree, put them in front of a firing squad. Anyone who ever visited Happy Valley and contributed to the local economy? Hang them. Every past founder and alumni of Penn State? Dig them up and burn them. Exile the state of Pennsylvania from the United States, burn the entire university to the ground, and salt the earth.

CHILDREN WERE RAPED, DON'T YOU GET IT???!!! CHILDREN WERE RAPED!! IF YOU DON'T SUPPORT THESE ACTIONS, YOU SUPPORT CHILD RAPE!!!!


You don't realize you sound just as breathlessly unhinged as the people you are purportedly mocking when you do that.
2012-08-14 10:20:45 AM  
1 votes:

sethstorm: CheatCommando: sethstorm: see Penn State's appeal

What appeal?

This one

Their opinions do matter whether you like it or not.


Well yeah. Penn State is too important to be punished without a fight. The motto of PSU is We Are Big! Fu*K The Small!
2012-08-14 10:04:21 AM  
1 votes:

Zik-Zak: As far as this thread is concerned, they're all kid-rapists by association. The janitors


The janitors knew about kids getting raped too and didnt say anything. Not that you botheres to read anything about it or you would have known that and left it out of you "ZOMG the PSU innocents will get hurt if good old PSU does, its too big to fail!" post.
2012-08-14 09:57:45 AM  
1 votes:

Pochas: Penn State raised 7 million dollars last year for children with cancer, they raise a similar amount of money every year.

Research is carried out there to create novel methods of treating all manner of diseases.

Example : http://live.psu.edu/story/55260

They also do research for renewable energy, fundamental science, space exploration.

I think there ought to be some punishment for what Sandusky did, but consider how many people, and which people, are really being punished if the school is shut down.


As far as this thread is concerned, they're all kid-rapists by association. The janitors, the international students, the scientists (those white-tower elitists), the food staff, the freshmen who are just now moving into the dorms, they're guilty too. So is all of central PA. Hell, the Big 10 have their hands dirty as well, burn everything!

CLEANSE IT IN THE NAME OF THE EMPEROR!

/starting to get into WH40K, sorry
2012-08-14 09:50:25 AM  
1 votes:

liam76: I was under the impressiont he Econ dept knew about the allegations and continued to fund his travel to Thailand for a few years.


There wasn't the institutional criminal cover up though, that's the difference.
2012-08-14 09:50:15 AM  
1 votes:

Millennium: The NCAA death penalty -or, failing that, a government-issued order to shut down the football program for a few years- would be adequate to solve the cultural problem that led to this mess.


How does shutting down the football program address a dishonest and criminal administration?

I understand those named individuals have been removed, but the environment that spawned it is still there. Aren't they obliged to make sure the changes have the desired effect?
2012-08-14 09:44:01 AM  
1 votes:

Alpha Sierra Foxtrot: uberaverage: Jerry Sandusky was married and running a childrens' charity. And the only people who were expected to know he was abusing kids were employeed by Penn St.?

Obviously. No one should be held accountable except PSU.

I believe that's called a "red herring?"


27.media.tumblr.com
2012-08-14 09:37:38 AM  
1 votes:

Kyro: And all this just so we can make sure that the administration(who were almost all replaced) and the perpetrator(who is already in prison) are properly punished?


As has been stated, if PSU can make improvements in their management, and show that they have rooted out the problem individuals, they are in no real danger of losing it. But, if the Middle States Commission on Higher Education didn't even look at this, they'd lose their credibility.

And if they find that things are going forward the way they were under the past administration, then they should strip PSU of their accreditation.
2012-08-14 09:37:14 AM  
1 votes:
Burn. It. To. The. Ground.
2012-08-14 09:32:40 AM  
1 votes:

The Muthaship: Whoever wants to?


Nobody. Scholarships will run dry, student loans will vanish. You're going to run the school solely off students with enough cash to pay tuition, but not enough sense to avoid a school whose degrees aren't worth the paper they're printed on? It'll dry up their income almost immediately. The maintenance on the buildings alone will exceed their funding. You'll bankrupt the school frighteningly fast.

Meanwhile, the 40,000 students that graduated last year now have a degree that's poison on their resume. Who the hell is going to higher a student from a non-accredited university?

And all this just so we can make sure that the administration(who were almost all replaced) and the perpetrator(who is already in prison) are properly punished?
2012-08-14 09:26:46 AM  
1 votes:

Kyro: The Muthaship: I'd say the issue of potentially revoking their accreditation has to do with the gross misfeasance and malfeasance perpetrated by the administration of the school in handling this scandal.

99% of the people that will be hurt by removing their accreditation are not administration. You're talking about a school that's got close to 100,000 students and 10,000 employees. You're supporting costing thousands of people their degrees and their jobs(in a fairly condensed area, tough luck local economy), just to nail a handful of individuals? Why are you scratching an itch with a bomb?


So in your mind, it doesn't matter if an institution agreed to certain standards to get accredited, those standards can simply be ignored because actually enforcing them will negatively impact members of the institution.
2012-08-14 09:23:35 AM  
1 votes:

liam76: I am all for putting the full force of the law and any accrediting group for higher education, academics, etc against any individual who had a hand on covering this up but any action that punished the 10's of thousands of people who knew nothing about this, had no hand in it, and won't even hurt the people responsible is worse than pointless.


According to this thread, none of those people matter, because revenge.
2012-08-14 09:22:08 AM  
1 votes:

Animatronik: They shouldnt destroy the university over this, just make institute reforms.


Isn't this what we're talking about? "Show us you've made administrative reforms, or we won't be able to reaffirm your accreditation"?
2012-08-14 09:21:28 AM  
1 votes:

Pichu0102: I'm pretty sure I was wondering of the students should sue because that Penn State degrees could become toxic and not worth what they paid for anymore.
Still wondering that now.


The Feds forgive student loans if your school looses accredation. At least they used to.
2012-08-14 09:18:56 AM  
1 votes:
maybe i am reading the story wrong but form what i can read here is what I think is being said/looked at.

1st. between the lawsuits about to hit Penn Stat, the lost of money form the football program, and the lost money form collage students who will now pick a new school to go to if they don't want a school with this on its records. The schools going be out a lot of money.

2nd. as the older teachers retire they may have a hard time getting new teachers who are good enough to teach to the right standards that the accreditdation place has in place to be accreditied by them.

Sounds more to me that whats going on is the accredition place wants to put a team in place to see if after the dust settles form the lawsuits and such is Penn Stat going be able to still meet their standards to be accredited.
2012-08-14 08:53:00 AM  
1 votes:
What do football victories and academic accreditation have to do with child molesting? Why punish the school and its students for the actions of a few employees and an ex-employee that had nothing to do with the school itself? Unless the primary purpose of the institution became intentionally recruiting victims for Sandusky it makes no sense at all.

The football program I couldn't care less about, but a school should only lose academic accreditation because it fails to properly teach.
2012-08-14 08:33:24 AM  
1 votes:
liam76:

One person made the claim about their special treatment

Vicky Triponey, who resigned her post as the university's standards and conduct officer in 2007

/ not just one random person
// I think everyone here (yourself excluded) would agree that Penn State football was pretty damn good at hiding things
/// that chicken is enjoying your cawk
2012-08-14 08:32:59 AM  
1 votes:

Endive Wombat: Fine, assuming they lose their accreditation, the school is toast at that point. Students can transfer to other schools...the campus basically becomes a ghost town. What happens with the physical school itself?


Casino resort.
2012-08-14 08:21:07 AM  
1 votes:
So now they are going to punish EVERY Penn State student and alumni.

Good luck getting a job recent Penn State alumns. You arent getting shiat if your school is no longer accredited.

/what's next? The entire state of Pennsylvania?
2012-08-14 08:20:33 AM  
1 votes:
spentmiles:

I heard on NPR yesterday that Obama is putting together a plan to buy back all of those toxic degrees and replace them with Harvard diplomas.

suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com

8/10
2012-08-14 08:17:36 AM  
1 votes:

Kyro: thatboyoverthere: Yelp I'm having a really hard time giving a fark for them.

How about the engineering student that went to Penn State, was completely disinterested in football and is now job searching with a toxic degree?


Tell him to get a job at Penn State.
2012-08-14 08:11:40 AM  
1 votes:
In other news.. a lot of the players that colleges are saying can come over for free, Are probably still paying leases on the apartments they're living in. Getting out of a lease early is a biatch
2012-08-14 08:11:15 AM  
1 votes:

Endive Wombat: Fine, assuming they lose their accreditation, the school is toast at that point. Students can transfer to other schools...the campus basically becomes a ghost town. What happens with the physical school itself?


Sold to pay the settlements and court ordered payments.
2012-08-14 08:10:43 AM  
1 votes:
One asshole and his prick friends cover up some insidious actions, and that's an excuse to punish tens of thousands of innocent staff and alumni that were just as disgusted and angry as the rest of the country?

Stop being stupid.
2012-08-14 08:09:34 AM  
1 votes:
liam76:

PSU actually treated their player mor elike regular students than most big footballs schools.

The Kool-Aid ... stop drinking it
2012-08-14 08:07:59 AM  
1 votes:

miss diminutive: greentea1985: If the rumors are true and Sandusky farmed out boys to Second Mile donors and PSU boosters, PSU is toast.

Whoa, wait. Granted I haven't been following the case intently, but that's the first I've heard of this. Got a source?


SI, CBS, and the New York Daily News

Wait, here's a better link from the NY Daily News, in case someone doesn't like fannation

So, yeah. This might be a thing.
2012-08-14 07:54:58 AM  
1 votes:

miss diminutive: greentea1985: If the rumors are true and Sandusky farmed out boys to Second Mile donors and PSU boosters, PSU is toast.

Whoa, wait. Granted I haven't been following the case intently, but that's the first I've heard of this. Got a source?


Rumors need sources?
2012-08-14 07:54:08 AM  
1 votes:

greentea1985: If the rumors are true and Sandusky farmed out boys to Second Mile donors and PSU boosters, PSU is toast.


Whoa, wait. Granted I haven't been following the case intently, but that's the first I've heard of this. Got a source?
2012-08-14 07:53:45 AM  
1 votes:

spentmiles: Revoking Penn State's entire academic accreditation ranks as the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Did the Computer Science Department train Sandusky to create Excel spreadsheets for tracking vulnerable children? Did the English Department teach him to write loving sonnets and whisper them sweetly to young boys as he twirled his fingers in their hair? Did the psychology department tutor him in manipulation techniques? No, no, and no. Why should the faculty, support staff, and students of these areas be punished for the crimes of the athletic department?

As outlined in the Freech report, the low level employees of the athletic department were responsible for recruiting young boys by way of various football camps. The underlings, like McQueary, got the scraps while the choice pickings were sent up the line to Sandusky. Sandusky, along with those of similar rank, then tested the boys with various forms of sexual abuse. The cream of the crop -- the 1-2% out of the hundreds of applicants -- were then sent up to Paterno who basically wrote the book on sodomy. When Paterno was done with the kid, he'd have sex with him one last time while slitting his throat. The janitors of the athletic department would then discard the bodies in the incinerators. As Freech pointed out, this system went on for decades. It ran so smoothly that no one detected a thing. It wasn't until McQueary sent a boy with herpes up the chain that Sandusky got angry and threatened to fire him. McQueary, whose wife was battling ovarian cancer at the time, couldn't afford to lose his medical benefits, so he blew the proverbial whistle.

Yet even with all of those facts, the NCAA just slapped their wrists and sent them to the corner for a little while. If I was a Penn State student, I would dig up Paterno myself and defile his corpse with an ax handle. As to why Sandusky is still alive testifies to the far reach of college football. I'm sure he's promising scholarships to every inmate with a hard on or ...


Link
2012-08-14 07:50:03 AM  
1 votes:
"WE ARE"

//facepalm
2012-08-14 07:48:27 AM  
1 votes:
It sounds like they're most worried the lawsuits are going to bankrupt the university and they want to know PSU is going to deal with that as it relates to the funding of academic programs.
2012-08-14 07:45:46 AM  
1 votes:
We are... State Pen.!
2012-08-14 07:41:45 AM  
1 votes:

Endive Wombat: What happens with the physical school itself?


Minimum-security prison?

Not kidding... that's what I've seen happen to some (much, much smaller) defunct colleges.
2012-08-14 07:41:41 AM  
1 votes:
 
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