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(Huffington Post)   Old and busted: stripping Penn State of football wins. The new hotness: stripping Penn State of its academic accreditation   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 283
    More: Interesting, Penn State, Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, university presidents, accreditation, NCAA, scandals  
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15699 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Aug 2012 at 7:18 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-14 07:21:37 AM
Yelp I'm having a really hard time giving a fark for them.
 
2012-08-14 07:26:31 AM
I'm pretty sure I was wondering of the students should sue because that Penn State degrees could become toxic and not worth what they paid for anymore.
Still wondering that now.
 
2012-08-14 07:29:12 AM
Shouldn't accreditation be contingent on robust procedures for dealing with academic misconduct? A system which insists that football players be exempt from all disciplinary procedures does not quite meet that requirement.
 
2012-08-14 07:30:08 AM
Fine, assuming they lose their accreditation, the school is toast at that point. Students can transfer to other schools...the campus basically becomes a ghost town. What happens with the physical school itself?
 
2012-08-14 07:33:16 AM
My grandfather went there. I went there. My sister and her husband went there. My nephew goes there.
I got this to say to PSU.

Well, Bye.
 
2012-08-14 07:34:10 AM
I'm actually really against that. Think how many random non-football-loving Penn State alumni and students there now who would legitimately be seriously hurt by this.
 
2012-08-14 07:35:10 AM
This is ridiculously stupid and unwarranted. Do not penalize inmocent students for what the football staff has done. Even now, there are 4 young-ish people in my department at work who are Penn State graduates and who practically wear black ribbons to mourn the loss of their careers.
 
2012-08-14 07:36:19 AM
thats great, they will punish everyone but the people responsible. the people responsible will still get their pensions and negotiated retirements. the educators, support staff, students and surrounding community will be the ones to suffer. gotta love good ole murican justice. murica fark yeah!
 
2012-08-14 07:37:39 AM
And the feds are still looking in to the rumor that Sandusky was trading kid smut with a prominent booster.
 
2012-08-14 07:38:12 AM
Revoking Penn State's entire academic accreditation ranks as the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Did the Computer Science Department train Sandusky to create Excel spreadsheets for tracking vulnerable children? Did the English Department teach him to write loving sonnets and whisper them sweetly to young boys as he twirled his fingers in their hair? Did the psychology department tutor him in manipulation techniques? No, no, and no. Why should the faculty, support staff, and students of these areas be punished for the crimes of the athletic department?

As outlined in the Freech report, the low level employees of the athletic department were responsible for recruiting young boys by way of various football camps. The underlings, like McQueary, got the scraps while the choice pickings were sent up the line to Sandusky. Sandusky, along with those of similar rank, then tested the boys with various forms of sexual abuse. The cream of the crop -- the 1-2% out of the hundreds of applicants -- were then sent up to Paterno who basically wrote the book on sodomy. When Paterno was done with the kid, he'd have sex with him one last time while slitting his throat. The janitors of the athletic department would then discard the bodies in the incinerators. As Freech pointed out, this system went on for decades. It ran so smoothly that no one detected a thing. It wasn't until McQueary sent a boy with herpes up the chain that Sandusky got angry and threatened to fire him. McQueary, whose wife was battling ovarian cancer at the time, couldn't afford to lose his medical benefits, so he blew the proverbial whistle.

Yet even with all of those facts, the NCAA just slapped their wrists and sent them to the corner for a little while. If I was a Penn State student, I would dig up Paterno myself and defile his corpse with an ax handle. As to why Sandusky is still alive testifies to the far reach of college football. I'm sure he's promising scholarships to every inmate with a hard on or a shank. He will get his in hell.

The academic departments at Penn State have their own controversies - experimenting on disabled children, sex for grades, undergrad knife fights - all of which need to be addressed, but not lumped into the Penn State Athletics Boy farking Factory.
 
2012-08-14 07:38:38 AM
After the school closes and everyone moves out, I suggest nuking the site with a tactical meteor. Make it our Tunguska. Only way to be sure.
 
2012-08-14 07:39:32 AM
blogs-images.forbes.com
All right Alex, I'll take Rhythmic Slapping Sounds for $1000
 
2012-08-14 07:40:50 AM

hornblowerfan: This is ridiculously stupid and unwarranted. Do not penalize inmocent students for what the football staff has done. Even now, there are 4 young-ish people in my department at work who are Penn State graduates and who practically wear black ribbons to mourn the loss of their careers.


The problem is it wasn't just the football staff. Several major University officials including the former president are implicated in the cover-up. The involvement of non-athletic department university officials is threatening the accredation. If the rumors are true and Sandusky farmed out boys to Second Mile donors and PSU boosters, PSU is toast.
 
2012-08-14 07:41:41 AM
 
2012-08-14 07:41:45 AM

Endive Wombat: What happens with the physical school itself?


Minimum-security prison?

Not kidding... that's what I've seen happen to some (much, much smaller) defunct colleges.
 
2012-08-14 07:41:59 AM
So all those degrees in Creative Linebacking aren't going to be worth diddly squat?
 
2012-08-14 07:42:33 AM
ARTFA, it's pretty clear their primary issue is money: after PSU gets sued into oblivion, will they still be able to function as a real school? It doesn't appear to be aimed at the Sandusky incident directly.
 
2012-08-14 07:44:18 AM

greentea1985: hornblowerfan: This is ridiculously stupid and unwarranted. Do not penalize inmocent students for what the football staff has done. Even now, there are 4 young-ish people in my department at work who are Penn State graduates and who practically wear black ribbons to mourn the loss of their careers.

The problem is it wasn't just the football staff. Several major University officials including the former president are implicated in the cover-up. The involvement of non-athletic department university officials is threatening the accredation. If the rumors are true and Sandusky farmed out boys to Second Mile donors and PSU boosters, PSU is toast.


So farking what? Do any of those major University officials run the academic programs? Does the Sandusky scandal indicate anything about the academic performance of Penn State students? Is the quality of teachers in question? No.

/not a Penn State grade or football fan
 
2012-08-14 07:45:25 AM
My problem with this is that the punishment goes back to the students instead of the school itself, or more importantly, the administration. The fine levied against Penn St.? They said it reduced the amount of scholarships available for new and continuing students. And now, removing accreditation once again only hurts the students. I think all or almost all of the upper echelon of administration should be fired or maybe even personally fined if possible. Let the president of the school have to personally pay for the penalty. I know that my alma mater was smaller than Penn State, and the Chancellor made more money than the President of the United States--I think the leader of Penn State could afford it.
 
2012-08-14 07:45:46 AM
We are... State Pen.!
 
2012-08-14 07:47:41 AM

Rincewind53: greentea1985: hornblowerfan: This is ridiculously stupid and unwarranted. Do not penalize inmocent students for what the football staff has done. Even now, there are 4 young-ish people in my department at work who are Penn State graduates and who practically wear black ribbons to mourn the loss of their careers.

The problem is it wasn't just the football staff. Several major University officials including the former president are implicated in the cover-up. The involvement of non-athletic department university officials is threatening the accredation. If the rumors are true and Sandusky farmed out boys to Second Mile donors and PSU boosters, PSU is toast.

So farking what? Do any of those major University officials run the academic programs? Does the Sandusky scandal indicate anything about the academic performance of Penn State students? Is the quality of teachers in question? No.

/not a Penn State grade or football fan


Wasn't one of the University officials the report said helped coverup child rape the president of the college?
 
2012-08-14 07:48:27 AM
It sounds like they're most worried the lawsuits are going to bankrupt the university and they want to know PSU is going to deal with that as it relates to the funding of academic programs.
 
2012-08-14 07:50:03 AM
"WE ARE"

//facepalm
 
2012-08-14 07:50:07 AM

Carth: Rincewind53: greentea1985: hornblowerfan: This is ridiculously stupid and unwarranted. Do not penalize inmocent students for what the football staff has done. Even now, there are 4 young-ish people in my department at work who are Penn State graduates and who practically wear black ribbons to mourn the loss of their careers.

The problem is it wasn't just the football staff. Several major University officials including the former president are implicated in the cover-up. The involvement of non-athletic department university officials is threatening the accredation. If the rumors are true and Sandusky farmed out boys to Second Mile donors and PSU boosters, PSU is toast.

So farking what? Do any of those major University officials run the academic programs? Does the Sandusky scandal indicate anything about the academic performance of Penn State students? Is the quality of teachers in question? No.

/not a Penn State grade or football fan

Wasn't one of the University officials the report said helped coverup child rape the president of the college?


The president of a college has very little to do with day-to-day academics, and much more to do with fundraising and long-term strategy.
 
2012-08-14 07:50:40 AM
Well just call me part of the mob that thinks they should get bent over.
 
2012-08-14 07:51:20 AM
media.comicbookmovie.com
 
2012-08-14 07:51:22 AM
y u hurt

JO PA!

why?
 
2012-08-14 07:53:45 AM

spentmiles: Revoking Penn State's entire academic accreditation ranks as the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Did the Computer Science Department train Sandusky to create Excel spreadsheets for tracking vulnerable children? Did the English Department teach him to write loving sonnets and whisper them sweetly to young boys as he twirled his fingers in their hair? Did the psychology department tutor him in manipulation techniques? No, no, and no. Why should the faculty, support staff, and students of these areas be punished for the crimes of the athletic department?

As outlined in the Freech report, the low level employees of the athletic department were responsible for recruiting young boys by way of various football camps. The underlings, like McQueary, got the scraps while the choice pickings were sent up the line to Sandusky. Sandusky, along with those of similar rank, then tested the boys with various forms of sexual abuse. The cream of the crop -- the 1-2% out of the hundreds of applicants -- were then sent up to Paterno who basically wrote the book on sodomy. When Paterno was done with the kid, he'd have sex with him one last time while slitting his throat. The janitors of the athletic department would then discard the bodies in the incinerators. As Freech pointed out, this system went on for decades. It ran so smoothly that no one detected a thing. It wasn't until McQueary sent a boy with herpes up the chain that Sandusky got angry and threatened to fire him. McQueary, whose wife was battling ovarian cancer at the time, couldn't afford to lose his medical benefits, so he blew the proverbial whistle.

Yet even with all of those facts, the NCAA just slapped their wrists and sent them to the corner for a little while. If I was a Penn State student, I would dig up Paterno myself and defile his corpse with an ax handle. As to why Sandusky is still alive testifies to the far reach of college football. I'm sure he's promising scholarships to every inmate with a hard on or ...


Link
 
2012-08-14 07:54:02 AM

Rincewind53: greentea1985: hornblowerfan: This is ridiculously stupid and unwarranted. Do not penalize inmocent students for what the football staff has done. Even now, there are 4 young-ish people in my department at work who are Penn State graduates and who practically wear black ribbons to mourn the loss of their careers.

The problem is it wasn't just the football staff. Several major University officials including the former president are implicated in the cover-up. The involvement of non-athletic department university officials is threatening the accredation. If the rumors are true and Sandusky farmed out boys to Second Mile donors and PSU boosters, PSU is toast.

So farking what? Do any of those major University officials run the academic programs? Does the Sandusky scandal indicate anything about the academic performance of Penn State students? Is the quality of teachers in question? No.

/not a Penn State grade or football fan


They agreed to certain standards to get accredited. Sucks for them if they've failed to adhere to those standards.
 
2012-08-14 07:54:06 AM
Next week's article: Should Every Penn State Student, Administrator, Faculty Member and Alumnus be Murdered in Their Sleep?
 
2012-08-14 07:54:08 AM

greentea1985: If the rumors are true and Sandusky farmed out boys to Second Mile donors and PSU boosters, PSU is toast.


Whoa, wait. Granted I haven't been following the case intently, but that's the first I've heard of this. Got a source?
 
2012-08-14 07:54:58 AM

miss diminutive: greentea1985: If the rumors are true and Sandusky farmed out boys to Second Mile donors and PSU boosters, PSU is toast.

Whoa, wait. Granted I haven't been following the case intently, but that's the first I've heard of this. Got a source?


Rumors need sources?
 
2012-08-14 07:55:53 AM
Penn State is a world class university, which has nothing to do with Paterno or the administrators who looked the other way.

They shouldnt destroy the university over this, just make institute reforms.
 
2012-08-14 07:58:13 AM
HaywoodJablonski:

Should Every Penn State Student, Administrator, Faculty Member and Alumnus be Murdered in Their Sleep?

i.chzbgr.com
 
2012-08-14 07:59:22 AM

Rincewind53: greentea1985: hornblowerfan: This is ridiculously stupid and unwarranted. Do not penalize inmocent students for what the football staff has done. Even now, there are 4 young-ish people in my department at work who are Penn State graduates and who practically wear black ribbons to mourn the loss of their careers.

The problem is it wasn't just the football staff. Several major University officials including the former president are implicated in the cover-up. The involvement of non-athletic department university officials is threatening the accredation. If the rumors are true and Sandusky farmed out boys to Second Mile donors and PSU boosters, PSU is toast.

So farking what? Do any of those major University officials run the academic programs? Does the Sandusky scandal indicate anything about the academic performance of Penn State students? Is the quality of teachers in question? No.

/not a Penn State grade or football fan


Because the officials are expected to have some control over the faculty and staff. I think the real fear is the massive settlements to Sandusky victims coupled with the loss of income from the football program will cause the academic departments to be gutted, reducing the value of a PSU degree. That's why the accreditation organization wants to know how much money PSU has. If they think there isn't enough to cover the settlements without destroying academics, they'll pre-emptively remove PSU's accreditation.
 
2012-08-14 07:59:28 AM
What scares me about Penn state is that I have no reason to believe that other school administrations (or any other bureaucracy) isn't capable of something similar.

Maybe we'll get to a point where administration will shrewdly decide its in their best interest to take a small amount of bad PR now rather than cover it up and risk a huge scandal.
 
2012-08-14 07:59:43 AM
I guess I don't get the connection between ACADEMIC accreditation and felonies committed by member(s) of the football team's staff. I get it that the school's high command was in on the kiddy diddling cover up, but they should all be charged, tried, and if convicted, sent up the creek, not have the school's accreditation taken away.

If it's just a matter of punishing the school, I think the stigma will do a good job of that.
 
2012-08-14 08:00:25 AM
this is farking Moronic. I am wondering why they aren't going after University of Pennsylvania for the sex abuse scandal in their economics dept?

orbister: Shouldn't accreditation be contingent on robust procedures for dealing with academic misconduct? A system which insists that football players be exempt from all disciplinary procedures does not quite meet that requirement.


PSU actually treated their player mor elike regular students than most big footballs schools.

Go look at their graduation rates and grades.
 
2012-08-14 08:02:55 AM

Animatronik: Penn State is a world class university, which has nothing to do with Paterno or the administrators who looked the other way.

They shouldnt destroy the university over this, just make institute reforms.


In which world? Paterno and the administrators who looked the other way (one of whom is the president of PSU) somehow have nothing to do with the university? In fact, the football culture was so strong and pervasive in Happy Valley that Joe Pa literally had more power than the university president until this story blew. No, the school shouldn't be destroyed. After the accrediting authorities and lawsuits get through pauperizing the school, it might just have the makings of a mighty fine community college.
 
2012-08-14 08:07:59 AM

miss diminutive: greentea1985: If the rumors are true and Sandusky farmed out boys to Second Mile donors and PSU boosters, PSU is toast.

Whoa, wait. Granted I haven't been following the case intently, but that's the first I've heard of this. Got a source?


SI, CBS, and the New York Daily News

Wait, here's a better link from the NY Daily News, in case someone doesn't like fannation

So, yeah. This might be a thing.
 
2012-08-14 08:09:34 AM
liam76:

PSU actually treated their player mor elike regular students than most big footballs schools.

The Kool-Aid ... stop drinking it
 
2012-08-14 08:09:46 AM

LiberalEastCoastElitist: What scares me about Penn state is that I have no reason to believe that other school administrations (or any other bureaucracy) isn't capable of something similar.


They are. They have been caught. They just don't make headlines because football (especially at PSU) is an attention getter. You got football itself and all its baggage (money, questions of its role in schools, etc), you got a fallen "hero" (Paterno, I woudl never categorize him as such before the scandal, guy was a good coach who remembered they were students first, but that was enought o get that label in college football), andyou got a big school. Move it to U Penn, and the economics dept and it is a blip in the news.

Nobody heard about this one
 
2012-08-14 08:10:43 AM
One asshole and his prick friends cover up some insidious actions, and that's an excuse to punish tens of thousands of innocent staff and alumni that were just as disgusted and angry as the rest of the country?

Stop being stupid.
 
2012-08-14 08:11:15 AM

Endive Wombat: Fine, assuming they lose their accreditation, the school is toast at that point. Students can transfer to other schools...the campus basically becomes a ghost town. What happens with the physical school itself?


Sold to pay the settlements and court ordered payments.
 
2012-08-14 08:11:40 AM
In other news.. a lot of the players that colleges are saying can come over for free, Are probably still paying leases on the apartments they're living in. Getting out of a lease early is a biatch
 
2012-08-14 08:11:57 AM
The commission also wants the report to address the university's ability to bear financial obligations stemming from "the investigation and related settlements, etc."

They just want to get paid.
 
2012-08-14 08:12:17 AM
Not a PSU grad, student or a big college football fan, but this strikes me as a step to far.
 
2012-08-14 08:12:45 AM

Something_Creative: My problem with this is that the punishment goes back to the students instead of the school itself, or more importantly, the administration. The fine levied against Penn St.? They said it reduced the amount of scholarships available for new and continuing students. And now, removing accreditation once again only hurts the students. I think all or almost all of the upper echelon of administration should be fired or maybe even personally fined if possible. Let the president of the school have to personally pay for the penalty. I know that my alma mater was smaller than Penn State, and the Chancellor made more money than the President of the United States--I think the leader of Penn State could afford it.


To clarify one of your points - it reduced the number of *athletic* scholarships available. IIRC,
it was only *football* scholarships, at that (I could be wrong...I'm known for that....)

Didn't say anything about the precious few academic scholarships for those of us who aren't
so athletically inclined.
 
2012-08-14 08:13:13 AM

Rincewind53: I'm actually really against that. Think how many random non-football-loving Penn State alumni and students there now who would legitimately be seriously hurt by this.


True.

But think of this. If they set the precedent that looking the other way can cost you YOUR ENTIRE SCHOOL then it is MUCH less likely to happen again at another school.

I think there is a system-wide problem in looking the other way for sports teams in schools and going nuclear on Penn State would certainly help clean up that shiat.

And the current students can simply transfer. That's an inconvenience at most.
 
2012-08-14 08:13:37 AM

thatboyoverthere: Yelp I'm having a really hard time giving a fark for them.


How about the engineering student that went to Penn State, was completely disinterested in football and is now job searching with a toxic degree? How is this at all that student's fault?
 
2012-08-14 08:15:07 AM

Kyro: One asshole and his prick friends cover up some insidious actions, and that's an excuse to punish tens of thousands of innocent staff and alumni that were just as disgusted and angry as the rest of the country?

Stop being stupid.


A few dozen people at Enron committed crimes and 20,000 people lost their jobs and shareholders lost over 70 billion dollars. The world isn't always fair.
 
2012-08-14 08:15:25 AM

Nick Nostril: I guess I don't get the connection between ACADEMIC accreditation and felonies committed by member(s) of the football team's staff. I get it that the school's high command was in on the kiddy diddling cover up, but they should all be charged, tried, and if convicted, sent up the creek, not have the school's accreditation taken away.

If it's just a matter of punishing the school, I think the stigma will do a good job of that.


Jo Pa died before he could get punished. We need to punish everyone else to make up for it. We should probably punish all Division 1 schools with football programs honestly. Its the culture that is to blame you see. This obviously happens at every school in the country. If you disagree with me you are part of the problem and should probably go to jail too, because you just dont get it. Those childrens lives were ruined. So should everyone elses. Its only fair.
 
2012-08-14 08:15:49 AM
As a Penn State Grad I am ashamed of what the Football staff did. But to take away the value of MY diploma by taking away the school's accrediation is too much. I know I sound selfish but I think of all the alumni when I say this. Even though i have nothing to do with the football staff or program (aside from attending all but 2 games during my 4 years 91-95) I feel true remorse about what happened to the victims of these crimes. I truely weep for them Punish those that did the crimes and those that covered it up. Please do not punish me or the thousands of others who attended The Pennsylvania State University.
 
2012-08-14 08:15:51 AM

SpectroBoy: If they set the precedent that looking the other way can cost you YOUR ENTIRE SCHOOL then it is MUCH less likely to happen again at another school.


You think other schools still think covering up shiat like this is a good idea? And the only way to make them think otherwise is to nuke the degrees of every other student that ever went there?
 
2012-08-14 08:16:23 AM

Kyro: thatboyoverthere: Yelp I'm having a really hard time giving a fark for them.

How about the engineering student that went to Penn State, was completely disinterested in football and is now job searching with a toxic degree? How is this at all that student's fault?


I heard on NPR yesterday that Obama is putting together a plan to buy back all of those toxic degrees and replace them with Harvard diplomas. Those poor kids were duped into attending PSU by predatory admissions officers.
 
2012-08-14 08:17:36 AM

Kyro: thatboyoverthere: Yelp I'm having a really hard time giving a fark for them.

How about the engineering student that went to Penn State, was completely disinterested in football and is now job searching with a toxic degree?


Tell him to get a job at Penn State.
 
2012-08-14 08:18:41 AM

Carth: A few dozen people at Enron committed crimes and 20,000 people lost their jobs and shareholders lost over 70 billion dollars. The world isn't always fair.


Ah.. so that's justification to intentionally punish thousands of others who had nothing to do with it.

Your punishment for the US's role in the Trail of Tears is pending. Sorry. The world isn't always fair.
 
2012-08-14 08:20:33 AM
spentmiles:

I heard on NPR yesterday that Obama is putting together a plan to buy back all of those toxic degrees and replace them with Harvard diplomas.

suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com

8/10
 
2012-08-14 08:20:41 AM
Well, this will finally unrape those children.
 
2012-08-14 08:21:07 AM
So now they are going to punish EVERY Penn State student and alumni.

Good luck getting a job recent Penn State alumns. You arent getting shiat if your school is no longer accredited.

/what's next? The entire state of Pennsylvania?
 
2012-08-14 08:21:08 AM

veedeevadeevoodee: liam76:

PSU actually treated their player mor elike regular students than most big footballs schools.

The Kool-Aid ... stop drinking it


From your link.

Penn State football has long been regarded as an example of a well-run program that graduates an above-average percentage of its players while operating within the rules and winning on the field.

One person made the claim about their special treatment (which even if it is true doesn't mean they aren't better than most other big football schools) but the NCAA has never had any complaints against PSU for special treatment of players. Also the only facts in your article are the 35 Penn State players faced internal discipline or criminal charges between 2003-09. 35/5 years is 7 infractions a year. With a team that numbers around what 100, 125, 7 infractions a year doesn't seem like a lot to me.
 
2012-08-14 08:23:10 AM

Kyro: Carth: A few dozen people at Enron committed crimes and 20,000 people lost their jobs and shareholders lost over 70 billion dollars. The world isn't always fair.

Ah.. so that's justification to intentionally punish thousands of others who had nothing to do with it.

Your punishment for the US's role in the Trail of Tears is pending. Sorry. The world isn't always fair.


Hindsight is 20/20. People get punished for things completely out of their control every day. I feel bad for the innocent PSU grads if this does actually happen, but they won't be the first or last collateral damage of a major incident.
 
2012-08-14 08:23:14 AM
i1247.photobucket.com


This Penn State BS is tired and boring......

/Best pic to come out of all of this, she is awaiting the seed....
 
2012-08-14 08:26:34 AM

spentmiles: I heard on NPR yesterday that Obama is putting together a plan to buy back all of those toxic degrees and replace them with Harvard diplomas. Those poor kids were duped into attending PSU by predatory admissions officers


What is Romney's stance on this?
 
2012-08-14 08:27:50 AM
i1094.photobucket.com

No reason, I just felt like this was somehow relevant....
 
2012-08-14 08:29:13 AM

MAYORBOB: Animatronik: Penn State is a world class university, which has nothing to do with Paterno or the administrators who looked the other way.

They shouldnt destroy the university over this, just make institute reforms.

In which world?


The same one that you and I reside in. Ranked 51st in the world according to this list Link
 
2012-08-14 08:29:27 AM
Won't somebody think of the students??? Bwhahahahahahahahaaaa!!!



The teachers allowed sub par students (athletes to Penn State graduates) to pass.
This action sanctioned and demanded by the school administration.
When a tower of shiat collapses, you gonna get slimed.
This school is not the only one that needs a huge enema.
If you are a real student....should have been smart enough to chose another school.......
Papa Joe would never....yea and the police never lie....
 
2012-08-14 08:32:59 AM

Endive Wombat: Fine, assuming they lose their accreditation, the school is toast at that point. Students can transfer to other schools...the campus basically becomes a ghost town. What happens with the physical school itself?


Casino resort.
 
2012-08-14 08:33:10 AM

domino324: People get punished for things completely out of their control every day. I feel bad for the innocent PSU grads if this does actually happen, but they won't be the first or last collateral damage of a major incident.


The difference is this is a conscious decision. It's not like their accreditation is lost in a brush fire. We're talking about an intentional move to punish thousands of people over a weak connection to a small group of slimeball individuals.

The fact that any of you are okay with this even being considered is abhorrent.

Y'know.. Sandusky was involved with football games with quite a few other teams, who made no attempt to stop him. We had better just remove the accreditation of all NCAA schools. Sorry, students of those schools. You're too closely connected with Sandusky. You should have done something to stop him.
 
2012-08-14 08:33:24 AM
liam76:

One person made the claim about their special treatment

Vicky Triponey, who resigned her post as the university's standards and conduct officer in 2007

/ not just one random person
// I think everyone here (yourself excluded) would agree that Penn State football was pretty damn good at hiding things
/// that chicken is enjoying your cawk
 
2012-08-14 08:36:14 AM

Endive Wombat: Fine, assuming they lose their accreditation, the school is toast at that point. Students can transfer to other schools...the campus basically becomes a ghost town. What happens with the physical school itself?


Tune in for the new hotness a few months from now: PENN STATE NEVER EXISTED.

/complete with faculty and alumni getting "disappeared"
//State College, PA will be renamed No-Man's-Land
 
2012-08-14 08:37:51 AM
Spanier and Corbett are still laughing at your outrage.
 
2012-08-14 08:40:40 AM

HaywoodJablonski: Next week's article: Should Every Penn State Student, Administrator, Faculty Member and Alumnus be Murdered in Their Sleep?


Of course. Don't forget anyone who resided in the state of Pennsylvania for any time from the period 1998-2009. Or anyone who has ever watched Penn State play on tv. If you disagree, you are a child molester sympathizer.
 
2012-08-14 08:42:50 AM
I still vote for mass genocide against everyone who has ever set foot in the town. Glad to see the rest of you finally coming around.
 
2012-08-14 08:42:58 AM
I don't buy the my diploma from PSU is now "toxic". If a resume came across my desk and the person graduated from PSU, my opinion of that individual wouldn't change. At all. Unless the name on the resume was Sandusky. But we're not hiring football coaches or pedos.
 
2012-08-14 08:43:08 AM
You can't punish our football team, innocent people may be harmed!

You can't punish our institution, innocent people may be harmed!

/innocent people were harmed
//that's why both are being punished
 
2012-08-14 08:44:14 AM
It seems to me that a strong, credible threat of possibly losing accreditation (and thereby destroying the school) will serve as a strong incentive to PSU administration and other university admins to get their houses in order.

Losing it shouldn't just be a punishment for wrongdoing, it should be a rather big stick used to beat some sense into the school to make them ensure it NEVER happens again.
 
2012-08-14 08:45:16 AM
The thread: Innocent students are being punished because of the football program!

The article: The Sandusky investigation revealed that the school administration is dysfunctional and they need to get it together or lose accreditation. It does not reflect on the quality of education the student are receiving.
 
2012-08-14 08:47:23 AM

The Muthaship: You can't punish our football team, innocent people may be harmed!

You can't punish our institution, innocent people may be harmed!

/innocent people were harmed
//that's why both are being punished


Yeah. Everyone knows two wrongs make JUSTICE.
 
2012-08-14 08:48:08 AM

spentmiles: Revoking Penn State's entire academic accreditation ranks as the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Did the Computer Science Department train Sandusky to create Excel spreadsheets for tracking vulnerable children? Did the English Department teach him to write loving sonnets and whisper them sweetly to young boys as he twirled his fingers in their hair? Did the psychology department tutor him in manipulation techniques? No, no, and no. Why should the faculty, support staff, and students of these areas be punished for the crimes of the athletic department?

As outlined in the Freech report, the low level employees of the athletic department were responsible for recruiting young boys by way of various football camps. The underlings, like McQueary, got the scraps while the choice pickings were sent up the line to Sandusky. Sandusky, along with those of similar rank, then tested the boys with various forms of sexual abuse. The cream of the crop -- the 1-2% out of the hundreds of applicants -- were then sent up to Paterno who basically wrote the book on sodomy. When Paterno was done with the kid, he'd have sex with him one last time while slitting his throat. The janitors of the athletic department would then discard the bodies in the incinerators. As Freech pointed out, this system went on for decades. It ran so smoothly that no one detected a thing. It wasn't until McQueary sent a boy with herpes up the chain that Sandusky got angry and threatened to fire him. McQueary, whose wife was battling ovarian cancer at the time, couldn't afford to lose his medical benefits, so he blew the proverbial whistle.

Yet even with all of those facts, the NCAA just slapped their wrists and sent them to the corner for a little while. If I was a Penn State student, I would dig up Paterno myself and defile his corpse with an ax handle. As to why Sandusky is still alive testifies to the far reach of college football. I'm sure he's promising scholarships to every inmate ...


trololol
 
2012-08-14 08:48:28 AM

Kyro: Yeah. Everyone knows two wrongs make JUSTICE.


Punishing an institution for wrongdoing is, itself, a wrong now?
 
2012-08-14 08:53:00 AM
What do football victories and academic accreditation have to do with child molesting? Why punish the school and its students for the actions of a few employees and an ex-employee that had nothing to do with the school itself? Unless the primary purpose of the institution became intentionally recruiting victims for Sandusky it makes no sense at all.

The football program I couldn't care less about, but a school should only lose academic accreditation because it fails to properly teach.
 
2012-08-14 08:56:05 AM

The Muthaship: Punishing an institution for wrongdoing is, itself, a wrong now?


You're not punishing the institution. You're punishing every current and recent employee, as well as every alumni that earned that school's degree.

You want to punish the entire administration? Remove the administration. Hold THEM accountable. Why the fark should the janitor that's been there 30 years be punished? Why should all of Penn State's students be punished for what Sandusky and some of the school's officials pulled?

I don't recall anyone wanting to punish USC for O.J.
 
2012-08-14 08:57:29 AM

SpectroBoy: Rincewind53: I'm actually really against that. Think how many random non-football-loving Penn State alumni and students there now who would legitimately be seriously hurt by this.

True.

But think of this. If they set the precedent that looking the other way can cost you YOUR ENTIRE SCHOOL then it is MUCH less likely to happen again at another school.

I think there is a system-wide problem in looking the other way for sports teams in schools and going nuclear on Penn State would certainly help clean up that shiat.

And the current students can simply transfer. That's an inconvenience at most.


You don't understand how college works do you? What school do you transfer to? Do they honor your credits? Do you keep your scholarships? Did you not develop a cadre of students in your field to study with? What about your research? Is the new school even within 300 miles?

The entire concept of academic vengeance with regard to this is the stupidest thing I've heard of in a long time and I just came from the politics tab.
 
2012-08-14 09:02:39 AM

Kyro: I don't recall anyone wanting to punish USC for O.J.


Did the administration, up to and including the president of the university take active steps to cover up O.J.'s crime? Perhaps over a course of years? I'd say the issue of potentially revoking their accreditation has to do with the gross misfeasance and malfeasance perpetrated by the administration of the school in handling this scandal. They aren't being punished for what Sandusky did, they are being punished for what they did and didn't do If they behaved this way in this instance, there are likely other examples of their ineptitude. My guess is, having a crooked administration lead a school that is accredited reflects badly on the Middle States Commission on Higher Education. I doubt they like that.
 
2012-08-14 09:04:36 AM

SweetDickens: If you are a real student....should have been smart enough to chose another school.......


No kidding! All REAL students have psychic powers to know what the administrators are up to behind closed doors. Anyone who thinks the ENTIRE CAMPUS didn't know what was going on is a fool. Obviously, every single person on campus was is on it. They probably had weekly pedo parties and invited the entire town. Death to everyone in Pennsylvania, I say. It's the only way.
 
2012-08-14 09:06:06 AM
I'm all for killing their football program, but this is farking insane.

This is actually punishing innocent students and faculty, unlike not being able to play in the post season or taking down a statue.
 
2012-08-14 09:07:56 AM
So now we've gone from cheering about hurting a few hundred people associated with the football program who had nothing to do with the coverup to talking about hurting tens of thousands of past and current students, business owners and residents.

But yea, this hasn't gone way beyond punishing administrative misconduct by a half dozen people and turned almost exclusively into a hate-a-thon by jerkasses gleefully leveraging child rape to get their jollies out of watching a rival school suffer during the lead-in to football season. Nope. Not at all. It's perfectly reasonable to destroy an entire economy and the educations of thousands of people who had nothing to do with it because a dead football coach and three administrators covered up a crime. Yep. Makes perfect sense.
 
2012-08-14 09:08:15 AM
The NCAA's weak half-measure of a punishment was the crescendo of this whole thing in the public's eyes. They consider this over; any more punishment will be seen as cruel. It's infuriating to think about, really, so I do my best not to consider the fact that not even institutionalized child rape is enough to bring about real change at a university. That's not what the people want, they want it all to be over now. This football season the healing will begin, as if PSU was itself somehow grievously harmed.
 
2012-08-14 09:08:31 AM
Rhythmic slapping. You would think that would put everything in perspective. The people of this fine college town should stick a plunger up their ass and rhythmically jam it in and out several hundred times. I don't think they are exhibiting the right level of empathy yet.
 
2012-08-14 09:11:01 AM

The Muthaship: I'd say the issue of potentially revoking their accreditation has to do with the gross misfeasance and malfeasance perpetrated by the administration of the school in handling this scandal.


99% of the people that will be hurt by removing their accreditation are not administration. You're talking about a school that's got close to 100,000 students and 10,000 employees. You're supporting costing thousands of people their degrees and their jobs(in a fairly condensed area, tough luck local economy), just to nail a handful of individuals? Why are you scratching an itch with a bomb?
 
2012-08-14 09:14:27 AM

veedeevadeevoodee: liam76:

One person made the claim about their special treatment

Vicky Triponey, who resigned her post as the university's standards and conduct officer in 2007

/ not just one random person


I never said "random" but it was one person, who never made a peep until there was blood in the water.
 
2012-08-14 09:15:46 AM

DigitalSorceress: Losing it shouldn't just be a punishment for wrongdoing, it should be a rather big stick used to beat some sense into the school to make them ensure it NEVER happens again


If you want to prevent this from happening, you have to pass a Federal Law banning college student from participating in any non-academic activities.
 
2012-08-14 09:15:59 AM

Kyro: You're supporting costing thousands of people their degrees and their jobs


No one loses their degree, no one necessarily loses their job. Whether or not the school loses their accreditation has no effect on their ability to run the school. It is a voluntary membership organization. They can also apply for re-accreditation later (in the unlikely event they actually lose it). Do you want colleges run by people whose SOP is covering up crimes of a very serious nature to be accredited institutions? I don't.
 
2012-08-14 09:16:47 AM

Owangotang: The NCAA's weak half-measure of a punishment was the crescendo of this whole thing in the public's eyes. They consider this over; any more punishment will be seen as cruel. It's infuriating to think about, really, so I do my best not to consider the fact that not even institutionalized child rape is enough to bring about real change at a university. That's not what the people want, they want it all to be over now. This football season the healing will begin, as if PSU was itself somehow grievously harmed.


Or they just don't believe that a horrible act by a small group of people requires massive collateral damage to everyone in a 10 mile radius. Some of us actually realize that Hammurabi's code is antiquated and barbaric. The "crescendo" in this whole thing is when the people who committed the crimes get punished for what they did individually and go to prison.
 
2012-08-14 09:17:09 AM

The Muthaship: Kyro: You're supporting costing thousands of people their degrees and their jobs

No one loses their degree, no one necessarily loses their job. Whether or not the school loses their accreditation has no effect on their ability to run the school. It is a voluntary membership organization. They can also apply for re-accreditation later (in the unlikely event they actually lose it). Do you want colleges run by people whose SOP is covering up crimes of a very serious nature to be accredited institutions? I don't.


Who, exactly, is going to continue going to a non-accredited university?
 
2012-08-14 09:18:56 AM
maybe i am reading the story wrong but form what i can read here is what I think is being said/looked at.

1st. between the lawsuits about to hit Penn Stat, the lost of money form the football program, and the lost money form collage students who will now pick a new school to go to if they don't want a school with this on its records. The schools going be out a lot of money.

2nd. as the older teachers retire they may have a hard time getting new teachers who are good enough to teach to the right standards that the accreditdation place has in place to be accreditied by them.

Sounds more to me that whats going on is the accredition place wants to put a team in place to see if after the dust settles form the lawsuits and such is Penn Stat going be able to still meet their standards to be accredited.
 
2012-08-14 09:19:22 AM

The Muthaship: No one loses their degree, no one necessarily loses their job. Whether or not the school loses their accreditation has no effect on their ability to run the school.


images.betterworldbooks.com
 
2012-08-14 09:20:09 AM
Jerry Sandusky was married and running a childrens' charity. And the only people who were expected to know he was abusing kids were employeed by Penn St.?
 
2012-08-14 09:20:49 AM

The Muthaship: Did the administration, up to and including the president of the university take active steps to cover up O.J.'s crime? Perhaps over a course of years? I'd say the issue of potentially revoking their accreditation has to do with the gross misfeasance and malfeasance perpetrated by the administration of the school in handling this scandal. They aren't being punished for what Sandusky did, they are being punished for what they did and didn't do If they behaved this way in this instance, there are likely other examples of their ineptitude.


The "they" being punished by this is the new administration, past and current students, and current facualty. The "they" who did it were a small group of administrators that are no longer with the university.

I am all for putting the full force of the law and any accrediting group for higher education, academics, etc against any individual who had a hand on covering this up but any action that punished the 10's of thousands of people who knew nothing about this, had no hand in it, and won't even hurt the people responsible is worse than pointless.
 
2012-08-14 09:21:28 AM

Pichu0102: I'm pretty sure I was wondering of the students should sue because that Penn State degrees could become toxic and not worth what they paid for anymore.
Still wondering that now.


The Feds forgive student loans if your school looses accredation. At least they used to.
 
2012-08-14 09:22:08 AM

Animatronik: They shouldnt destroy the university over this, just make institute reforms.


Isn't this what we're talking about? "Show us you've made administrative reforms, or we won't be able to reaffirm your accreditation"?
 
2012-08-14 09:22:28 AM

uberaverage: Jerry Sandusky was married and running a childrens' charity. And the only people who were expected to know he was abusing kids were employeed by Penn St.?


Obviously. No one should be held accountable except PSU.

I believe that's called a "red herring?"
 
2012-08-14 09:22:46 AM

SpectroBoy: But think of this. If they set the precedent that looking the other way can cost you YOUR ENTIRE SCHOOL then it is MUCH less likely to happen again at another school.


The people who were responsible for this VERY clearly did something illegal. In the face of being imprisoned, (and our penalties for this kind of thing are STEEP) the idea that the place you work might be shuttered is incredibly moronic, and has been from the beginning.

Its like advocating the addition of a really big fine to the penalties for murder. Maybe they won't murder if they know there'll be a financial risk!

Idiot
 
2012-08-14 09:22:54 AM

Alpha Sierra Foxtrot: Who, exactly, is going to continue going to a non-accredited university?


Whoever wants to?

Are you suggesting that PSU's ability to market itself is more important than taking appropriate action against it when it does wrong? Are they too big to fail? This board of accreditation has a right to look at the institutions it endorses. If they don't live up to the well defined standards they've established, they have the right to revoke accreditation. What does it mean for the other schools accredited by that body if a school that engages in criminal activities at the highest level gets to maintain its accreditation? What does it mean for prospective students looking at schools to choose. What then would other schools have to do to lose their accreditation in the future.

I understand PSU is a long standing, and very popular institution with which many people identify. That should not exempt it from punishment for wrongdoing, just as it doesn't mean people who went their and earned degrees are diminished in any way by this scandal.
 
2012-08-14 09:23:35 AM

liam76: I am all for putting the full force of the law and any accrediting group for higher education, academics, etc against any individual who had a hand on covering this up but any action that punished the 10's of thousands of people who knew nothing about this, had no hand in it, and won't even hurt the people responsible is worse than pointless.


According to this thread, none of those people matter, because revenge.
 
2012-08-14 09:25:05 AM

Aarontology: I'm all for killing their football program, but this is farking insane.


Oh, right, because it's all football's fault that the president gave the guy powers. And it's so unique a situation and every other school would get killed if they enabled a pedophile to operate for years within their midst.

We'll ignore the econ professor who was linked to earlier at UPenn who was known as a child rapist for years and no one knows about. It's because the econ program was too strong! Damn economics-loving America!

It's ridiculous to punish the individuals involved and not the whole school when it's a professor, but when its an ex-football coach, well, sh*t, it's all football's fault and football has to take all the punishment!
 
2012-08-14 09:25:31 AM

greentea1985: If the rumors are true and Sandusky farmed out boys to Second Mile donors and PSU boosters, PSU is toast.


True enough, but despite my calls for actually removing the football program, I have yet to see any credible evidence that this actually occurred and was not ginned up by the same folks who think Elvis is still alive, Bigfoot is real, and Global Warming isn't happening.
 
2012-08-14 09:26:46 AM

Kyro: The Muthaship: I'd say the issue of potentially revoking their accreditation has to do with the gross misfeasance and malfeasance perpetrated by the administration of the school in handling this scandal.

99% of the people that will be hurt by removing their accreditation are not administration. You're talking about a school that's got close to 100,000 students and 10,000 employees. You're supporting costing thousands of people their degrees and their jobs(in a fairly condensed area, tough luck local economy), just to nail a handful of individuals? Why are you scratching an itch with a bomb?


So in your mind, it doesn't matter if an institution agreed to certain standards to get accredited, those standards can simply be ignored because actually enforcing them will negatively impact members of the institution.
 
2012-08-14 09:27:05 AM
I see a ton of overreaction and overstatement here. This wasn't even a threat, it was a warning. And yeah, any place where you can get away with something like the Sandusky thing for years should result in regular punitive reporting on your leadership structure to ensure that your university isn't structurally flawed and is able to manage itself. They DO need to have reasonable measures to, for instance, not just give people grades for nothing.

Also, if Penn State goes under tomorrow, that means nothing to the diplomas alumni hold. Maybe their reputation goes down a little. Then again, I got a diploma from a crap school and no one ever asks me about it beyond "Do you have a BS? Great!" I have eclipsed my credential by actually doing my job with proficiency and flashes of brilliance since I graduated so no one really cares.

\Overstatements about something that is over blown.

\\I love the smell of fark in the morning.

\\\Smells like Derp-tory!
 
2012-08-14 09:28:53 AM

Super_pope: Its like advocating the addition of a really big fine to the penalties for murder. Maybe they won't murder if they know there'll be a financial risk!


Or saying "In addition to you, we'll execute your whole family if you are found guilty of murder." Because that's going to be effective.
 
2012-08-14 09:30:13 AM
How many of you RTFA instead of just posting some gut emotional reaction based on the headline? I guess this is Fark, so I shouldn't be surprised.

TFA: The commission said in an Aug. 8 notice that Penn State remains accredited while "on warning" but it wants a monitoring report submitted by the end of next month detailing steps taken to ensure full compliance with governmental requirements, that the university's mission is being carried out, that the commission will be fully informed and that Penn State is complying with standards on leadership and governance as well as integrity.

The commission also wants the report to address the university's ability to bear financial obligations stemming from "the investigation and related settlements, etc." It said "a small team visit" will be made, a standard practice "to verify institutional status and progress."

. . .

"Middle States is focusing on governance, integrity, and financial issues related to information in the Freeh report and other items related to our current situation."

Bowen said the body doesn't issue a warning unless it believes that an institution can make improvements and remain in compliance, and "this is certainly true for Penn State.


Calm the fark down, people. They probably won't lose their accreditation.
 
2012-08-14 09:30:41 AM
Since trying to strip them of something that can't really be stripped (their athletic record) isn't working, they try to find something that will work(the academic accreditation). It won't work.

Good to see that I've been proven right that no amount of "justice" will be enough for the few. It'll be sweet, sweet justice to see Penn State's appeal to go through successfully, undo the penalties that aren't really working, and thwart those who want scorched earth.
 
2012-08-14 09:30:48 AM

The Muthaship: I understand PSU is a long standing, and very popular institution with which many people identify. That should not exempt it from punishment for wrongdoing, just as it doesn't mean people who went their and earned degrees are diminished in any way by this scandal.


Y'know, I was in the middle of typing out a long explanation of why you're being shortsighted, but it occurs to me that you're just an idiot and not worth the time to even type these few lines.
 
2012-08-14 09:31:43 AM

IAmRight: It's ridiculous to punish the individuals involved and not the whole school when it's a professor, but when its an ex-football coach, well, sh*t, it's all football's fault and football has to take all the punishment!


The econ department in conjunction with senior administrative officials didn't cover up the crimes for over a decade in order to preserve the reputation, and more importantly, the income of the department, nor did those crimes happen in the econ department with the full knowledge of the administration. That's what the difference is, and it's a pretty f*cking big difference.

One was one sick fark. The other was one sick fark being enabled and aided by other sick farks to protect a program.
 
2012-08-14 09:32:40 AM

The Muthaship: Whoever wants to?


Nobody. Scholarships will run dry, student loans will vanish. You're going to run the school solely off students with enough cash to pay tuition, but not enough sense to avoid a school whose degrees aren't worth the paper they're printed on? It'll dry up their income almost immediately. The maintenance on the buildings alone will exceed their funding. You'll bankrupt the school frighteningly fast.

Meanwhile, the 40,000 students that graduated last year now have a degree that's poison on their resume. Who the hell is going to higher a student from a non-accredited university?

And all this just so we can make sure that the administration(who were almost all replaced) and the perpetrator(who is already in prison) are properly punished?
 
2012-08-14 09:32:58 AM

kim jong-un: You don't understand how college works do you? What school do you transfer to? Do they honor your credits? Do you keep your scholarships? Did you not develop a cadre of students in your field to study with? What about your research? Is the new school even within 300 miles?

The entire concept of academic vengeance with regard to this is the stupidest thing I've heard of in a long time and I just came from the politics tab.



THIS.

Logic, reason, and justice have no meaning with Penn State's rabid critics. They just want scorched earth.
 
2012-08-14 09:33:08 AM
No, just no.

It is one thing to nuke the fark out of the football program as an object lesson to the rest of the world that "This is what happens to your precious little armored wankball program when your D-Coord rapes kids and you fail to report."

Nuking the academic side is just plain lazy. PSU has done a lot to expand and provide health services to the mid state, they've done a lot to become a fairly good school in PA and they are the the best the state has in terms of mass public education (not that Pitt is bad, but PSU can support a larger student body). On the academic side you determine who was in on the coverup and the pedo ring. You take both those groups and you throw them in jail cells for at least a couple of decades. You have the DoE take control of the school (or at least the appointment of senior academic admins) for a time period, and you move forward from there. If the BoT has an issue with that you tell them to shut the fark up since they were clearly incapable of running a clean school.

At the end of the day if the BoT decides to go down in flames, then yes I guess you have to strip accreditation, but assuming the BoT is willing to accept DoE management of the school for a time period, I see no reason to remove the accreditation. Simply nuking PSU though farks over a lot of people who depend on its health care services (the medical faculty is gone the minute accreditation is gone, so a lot of people lose the specialist they were seeing) and of course the students/degree holders. The medical and academic arms of PSU are actually legit public goods. You don't go rip up the Interstate System or something like that just because it turns out a bunch of the engineers on it were child rapists, you purge the company and move forward.
 
2012-08-14 09:33:20 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Kyro: The Muthaship: I'd say the issue of potentially revoking their accreditation has to do with the gross misfeasance and malfeasance perpetrated by the administration of the school in handling this scandal.

99% of the people that will be hurt by removing their accreditation are not administration. You're talking about a school that's got close to 100,000 students and 10,000 employees. You're supporting costing thousands of people their degrees and their jobs(in a fairly condensed area, tough luck local economy), just to nail a handful of individuals? Why are you scratching an itch with a bomb?

So in your mind, it doesn't matter if an institution agreed to certain standards to get accredited, those standards can simply be ignored because actually enforcing them will negatively impact members of the institution.


If their accreditation was removed because they fail to meet the requirements of accreditation, that's different from "One of their old coaches is a pedophile, so we need to remove their accreditation" which seems to be what most of the people who didn't read the article seem to think is happening.
 
2012-08-14 09:34:27 AM

Alpha Sierra Foxtrot: Y'know, I was in the middle of typing out a long explanation of why you're being shortsighted, but it occurs to me that you're just an idiot and not worth the time to even type these few lines.


It's okay. I doubt there would've been anything new in it.

/I don't deny being an idiot.
//but, do you how do you think this board would look if they didn't at least act concerned about what went down at PSU?
 
2012-08-14 09:35:12 AM

HotWingConspiracy: So in your mind, it doesn't matter if an institution agreed to certain standards to get accredited, those standards can simply be ignored because actually enforcing them will negatively impact members of the institution.


I think that holding tens of thousands of people's livelihoods hostage over the administrative policy that was applied(or not applied) to one man is retarded. Punish the individuals involved, not the entire goddamn institution.
 
2012-08-14 09:36:50 AM

velvet_fog: Calm the fark down, people. They probably won't lose their accreditation.


My Boobies was directed more at the people in the thread who actually like the idea. I'd say overall I agree with you. A couple members of the BoT are being troublesome, like the ones who want to go sue the NCAA. This seems like a shot the bow of those guys, kind of a "Why don't you shut up and stop tempting the dynamite monkey that is the Clery Act armed DoE."

Unless the nutcases take control of the BoT and decide to fight to the bitter end, then yeah PSU gets slapped around a little, some DoE monitoring, and things more forward.
 
2012-08-14 09:37:14 AM
Burn. It. To. The. Ground.
 
2012-08-14 09:37:38 AM

Kyro: And all this just so we can make sure that the administration(who were almost all replaced) and the perpetrator(who is already in prison) are properly punished?


As has been stated, if PSU can make improvements in their management, and show that they have rooted out the problem individuals, they are in no real danger of losing it. But, if the Middle States Commission on Higher Education didn't even look at this, they'd lose their credibility.

And if they find that things are going forward the way they were under the past administration, then they should strip PSU of their accreditation.
 
2012-08-14 09:37:50 AM

Kyro: I think that holding tens of thousands of people's livelihoods hostage over the administrative policy that was applied(or not applied) to one man is retarded. Punish the individuals involved, not the entire goddamn institution.


If that was the case, the prosecutions would be enough.
 
2012-08-14 09:37:52 AM

Aarontology: The econ department in conjunction with senior administrative officials didn't cover up the crimes for over a decade in order to preserve the reputation, and more importantly, the income of the department, nor did those crimes happen in the econ department with the full knowledge of the administration.


"In 1993, Ward had been the subject of a sting at his Ardmore mansion, where several teenage boys lived with him, and he was accused of molesting a 13-year-old there as often as 100 times. But after two highly publicized trials, he was sentenced to just five years of probation, during which time he continued to teach at Wharton and to travel - on Penn's dime - to Thailand and other hot spots where the touch of a young boy could be had for a price."

Naw, they just knew about this and continued to employ him and continued to watch him work with at-risk kids for years, paying for him to go to Thailand and "work with" youth there. But naw, there's nothing reprehensible about their actions. Totally not the same, situations where the institution knew about a faculty member's pedophilia thanks to it being reported to police, the faculty member using connections to keep himself out of jail, and the university continuing to employ the person and pay for them to have sex with minors.
 
2012-08-14 09:38:24 AM

The Muthaship: /I don't deny being an idiot.


Well I'm glad we got that cleared up.

The Muthaship: //but, do you how do you think this board would look if they didn't at least act concerned about what went down at PSU?


Absolutely. But there's more ways to look concerned. Your boss doesn't have to come down and threaten the secretary with a stapler to the throat just to get someone to clear a paper jam.
 
2012-08-14 09:39:33 AM

ha-ha-guy: It is one thing to nuke the fark out of the football program as an object lesson to the rest of the world that "This is what happens to your precious little armored wankball program when your D-Coord rapes kids and you fail to report."

Nuking the academic side is just plain lazy.


It's not lazy to be buttmad at football for it, though.
 
2012-08-14 09:39:43 AM

fatalvenom: Burn. It. To. The. Ground.


Only if you mean that you want to burn all the rabid "critics" - people who have been proven by things like this to not accept anything - to the ground.
 
2012-08-14 09:39:45 AM

Kyro: Your boss doesn't have to come down and threaten the secretary with a stapler to the throat just to get someone to clear a paper jam.


It sounds like the "warning" is their lowest level of action. And that's all they did.
 
2012-08-14 09:40:46 AM

liam76: spentmiles: I heard on NPR yesterday that Obama is putting together a plan to buy back all of those toxic degrees and replace them with Harvard diplomas. Those poor kids were duped into attending PSU by predatory admissions officers

What is Romney's stance on this?


Wide.
 
2012-08-14 09:41:01 AM
WHAT"S WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!? YOU FOOTBALL WORSHIPPING JOE PATERNO APOLOGISTS!!!
CHILDREN WERE ABUSED!!!
THE ENTIRE UNIVERSITY NEEDS TO BE CLOSED AND EVERY SINGLE MAN, WOMAN AND CHILD ARRESTED AND JAILED FOR LIFE!!!!
 
2012-08-14 09:41:29 AM

Kyro: HotWingConspiracy: So in your mind, it doesn't matter if an institution agreed to certain standards to get accredited, those standards can simply be ignored because actually enforcing them will negatively impact members of the institution.

I think that holding tens of thousands of people's livelihoods hostage over the administrative policy that was applied(or not applied) to one man is retarded. Punish the individuals involved, not the entire goddamn institution.


Did you read the article? The accreditation board is concerned with Penn State not being able to pay their bills. A school losing accreditation because it can't meet financial obligations isn't exactly a new phenomenon. Do you think Penn State should be exempt from the rules because their financial troubles come from legal problems?
 
2012-08-14 09:41:50 AM

HaywoodJablonski: Next week's article: Should Every Penn State Student, Administrator, Faculty Member and Alumnus be Murdered in Their Sleep?


No, but if you think they should, you shouldn't have any hand in PSU's fate.
 
2012-08-14 09:44:01 AM

Alpha Sierra Foxtrot: uberaverage: Jerry Sandusky was married and running a childrens' charity. And the only people who were expected to know he was abusing kids were employeed by Penn St.?

Obviously. No one should be held accountable except PSU.

I believe that's called a "red herring?"


27.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-08-14 09:44:26 AM

Carth: Did you read the article? The accreditation board is concerned with Penn State not being able to pay their bills. A school losing accreditation because it can't meet financial obligations isn't exactly a new phenomenon. Do you think Penn State should be exempt from the rules because their financial troubles come from legal problems?


Oh please. Don't be so dense. This is entirely the MSC rattling its sabre so they don't get viewed as looking the other way on the matter as Paterno did. They're covering their own asses by threatening to burn the whole building down.
 
2012-08-14 09:44:38 AM

Aarontology: The econ department in conjunction with senior administrative officials didn't cover up the crimes for over a decade in order to preserve the reputation, and more importantly, the income of the department, nor did those crimes happen in the econ department with the full knowledge of the administration. That's what the difference is, and it's a pretty f*cking big difference.


I was under the impressiont he Econ dept knew about the allegations and continued to fund his travel to Thailand for a few years.

So yeah, I don't see any real difference.
 
2012-08-14 09:45:57 AM

Kyro: Carth: Did you read the article? The accreditation board is concerned with Penn State not being able to pay their bills. A school losing accreditation because it can't meet financial obligations isn't exactly a new phenomenon. Do you think Penn State should be exempt from the rules because their financial troubles come from legal problems?

Oh please. Don't be so dense. This is entirely the MSC rattling its sabre so they don't get viewed as looking the other way on the matter as Paterno did. They're covering their own asses by threatening to burn the whole building down.


You didn't answer the question. If Penn State can't cover their financial obligations should they be treated like other schools and lose their accreditation?
 
2012-08-14 09:46:15 AM
OK, see, THIS is going too far.

There's a cancer in that school that needs to be addressed, but you do that by excising the tumor, not shooting the patient in the back of the head. The NCAA death penalty -or, failing that, a government-issued order to shut down the football program for a few years- would be adequate to solve the cultural problem that led to this mess. Killing the school is completely unnecessary.
 
2012-08-14 09:49:31 AM

IAmRight: Naw, they just knew about this and continued to employ him and continued to watch him work with at-risk kids for years, paying for him to go to Thailand and "work with" youth there. But naw, there's nothing reprehensible about their actions. Totally not the same, situations where the institution knew about a faculty member's pedophilia thanks to it being reported to police, the faculty member using connections to keep himself out of jail, and the university continuing to employ the person and pay for them to have sex with minors.


Notice that he was arrested and brought to trial and punished and how he wasn't protected for fourteen years by the administration who had full knowledge of his crimes in order to protect the reputation and revenues of the econ department? Whereas Sandusky was raping children on Penn State property with the full knowledge of JoePa and other administrative officials who covered it up for fourteen years to protect the program

The two situations are not analogous.
 
2012-08-14 09:49:48 AM

Endive Wombat: Fine, assuming they lose their accreditation, the school is toast at that point. Students can transfer to other schools...the campus basically becomes a ghost town. What happens with the physical school itself?


NAMBLA purchases it as a national shtine.
 
2012-08-14 09:50:15 AM

Millennium: The NCAA death penalty -or, failing that, a government-issued order to shut down the football program for a few years- would be adequate to solve the cultural problem that led to this mess.


How does shutting down the football program address a dishonest and criminal administration?

I understand those named individuals have been removed, but the environment that spawned it is still there. Aren't they obliged to make sure the changes have the desired effect?
 
2012-08-14 09:50:25 AM

liam76: I was under the impressiont he Econ dept knew about the allegations and continued to fund his travel to Thailand for a few years.


There wasn't the institutional criminal cover up though, that's the difference.
 
2012-08-14 09:52:41 AM

Kyro: The Muthaship: Punishing an institution for wrongdoing is, itself, a wrong now?

You're not punishing the institution. You're punishing every current and recent employee, as well as every alumni that earned that school's degree.

You want to punish the entire administration? Remove the administration. Hold THEM accountable. Why the fark should the janitor that's been there 30 years be punished? Why should all of Penn State's students be punished for what Sandusky and some of the school's officials pulled?

I don't recall anyone wanting to punish USC for O.J.


www.climategate.com
...until it is time to share any blame.
 
2012-08-14 09:53:42 AM
Penn State raised 7 million dollars last year for children with cancer, they raise a similar amount of money every year.

Research is carried out there to create novel methods of treating all manner of diseases.

Example : http://live.psu.edu/story/55260

They also do research for renewable energy, fundamental science, space exploration.

I think there ought to be some punishment for what Sandusky did, but consider how many people, and which people, are really being punished if the school is shut down.
 
2012-08-14 09:54:57 AM

Carth: You didn't answer the question. If Penn State can't cover their financial obligations should they be treated like other schools and lose their accreditation?


Could someone let me know if Carth is a known troll? I'm not terribly active on the main page, but I'm having trouble believing somebody would be this intentionally misdirecting.

But I'll read the article to you anyway.

The commission said in an Aug. 8 notice that Penn State remains accredited while "on warning" but it wants a monitoring report submitted by the end of next month detailing steps taken to ensure full compliance with governmental requirements, that the university's mission is being carried out, that the commission will be fully informed and that Penn State is complying with standards on leadership and governance as well as integrity.

The commission also wants the report to address the university's ability to bear financial obligations stemming from "the investigation and related settlements, etc." It said "a small team visit" will be made, a standard practice "to verify institutional status and progress."


So rather than focusing on what the comission actually demanded an answer on, you're harping on their secondary point that was so critical they actually used "etc" in it?

But to answer your intentionally leading question: no, Penn State should not be immune to their financial obligations. However, I would task you to find me a university that's been in dire financial straights(easy) that's lost its accreditation(not quite as easy).
 
2012-08-14 09:56:05 AM

Carth: Kyro: Carth: Did you read the article? The accreditation board is concerned with Penn State not being able to pay their bills. A school losing accreditation because it can't meet financial obligations isn't exactly a new phenomenon. Do you think Penn State should be exempt from the rules because their financial troubles come from legal problems?

Oh please. Don't be so dense. This is entirely the MSC rattling its sabre so they don't get viewed as looking the other way on the matter as Paterno did. They're covering their own asses by threatening to burn the whole building down.

You didn't answer the question. If Penn State can't cover their financial obligations should they be treated like other schools and lose their accreditation?


Never happen, the state of PA will prop up their flagship University to the tune of a couple billion if needed. The CiC will support them and grant direct to them to keep in decent fiscal health. PSU doesn't operate in a vacuum here.
 
2012-08-14 09:56:16 AM

Accreditation is an academic thing. Many times, it is living up to a standard and proving that, academically, you are successfully doing what you claim to be doing, which is educating.

As horrible as the recent PSU situation is, it does NOT warrant losing accreditation.

Based on recently discovered events, if ANY school deserves to lose accreditation, it's this one:

eaglgymnastics.com


Short story of UNC:
Sham classes were offered to athletes who received high grades on transcripts, raising their grades so they could remain eligible.
What do I mean by sham? The classes didn't have assignments, and didn't even MEET.

This means that UNC was actually playing ineligible players, but the NCAA so far hasn't said anything about the case, and most likely won't. The case will just be quickly forgotten, and the knee-jerk reactionists and media can continue their cry for PSU to be burned down.
 
2012-08-14 09:56:28 AM

Aarontology: IAmRight: Naw, they just knew about this and continued to employ him and continued to watch him work with at-risk kids for years, paying for him to go to Thailand and "work with" youth there. But naw, there's nothing reprehensible about their actions. Totally not the same, situations where the institution knew about a faculty member's pedophilia thanks to it being reported to police, the faculty member using connections to keep himself out of jail, and the university continuing to employ the person and pay for them to have sex with minors.

Notice that he was arrested and brought to trial and punished and how he wasn't protected for fourteen years by the administration who had full knowledge of his crimes in order to protect the reputation and revenues of the econ department? Whereas Sandusky was raping children on Penn State property with the full knowledge of JoePa and other administrative officials who covered it up for fourteen years to protect the program

The two situations are not analogous.


Let me be up front about this. I am fine with crucifying the PSU admins who had a hand in this, but if you don't see the similiarities between PSU and a school that allows someone who has been convicted of inapropriate relations with kids to go to Thailand on their dime with no supervision, you r head is buried it he sand.

Aarontology: There wasn't the institutional criminal cover up though, that's the difference


Sending a guy to a country where his crime is commonplace is a cover-up.
 
2012-08-14 09:57:10 AM

Pochas: Penn State raised 7 million dollars last year for children with cancer, they raise a similar amount of money every year.

Research is carried out there to create novel methods of treating all manner of diseases.

Example : http://live.psu.edu/story/55260

They also do research for renewable energy, fundamental science, space exploration.

I think there ought to be some punishment for what Sandusky did, but consider how many people, and which people, are really being punished if the school is shut down.


Yes Billy, that's right. We'll cure your cancer right after we brutally rape you. Ice cream?
 
2012-08-14 09:57:31 AM
Surely they can hide and deny the debt for at least a dozen years.
 
2012-08-14 09:57:45 AM

Pochas: Penn State raised 7 million dollars last year for children with cancer, they raise a similar amount of money every year.

Research is carried out there to create novel methods of treating all manner of diseases.

Example : http://live.psu.edu/story/55260

They also do research for renewable energy, fundamental science, space exploration.

I think there ought to be some punishment for what Sandusky did, but consider how many people, and which people, are really being punished if the school is shut down.


As far as this thread is concerned, they're all kid-rapists by association. The janitors, the international students, the scientists (those white-tower elitists), the food staff, the freshmen who are just now moving into the dorms, they're guilty too. So is all of central PA. Hell, the Big 10 have their hands dirty as well, burn everything!

CLEANSE IT IN THE NAME OF THE EMPEROR!

/starting to get into WH40K, sorry
 
2012-08-14 09:57:58 AM

brobdiggy: Accreditation is an academic thing. Many times, it is living up to a standard and proving that, academically, you are successfully doing what you claim to be doing, which is educating.

As horrible as the recent PSU situation is, it does NOT warrant losing accreditation.

Based on recently discovered events, if ANY school deserves to lose accreditation, it's this one:

[eaglgymnastics.com image 297x240]

Short story of UNC:
Sham classes were offered to athletes who received high grades on transcripts, raising their grades so they could remain eligible.
What do I mean by sham? The classes didn't have assignments, and didn't even MEET.

This means that UNC was actually playing ineligible players, but the NCAA so far hasn't said anything about the case, and most likely won't. The case will just be quickly forgotten, and the knee-jerk reactionists and media can continue their cry for PSU to be burned down.


High grades? Apparently Julius Peppers had a D+ in black studies or Swahili or some shiat.
 
2012-08-14 09:59:33 AM

liam76: Let me be up front about this. I am fine with crucifying the PSU admins who had a hand in this, but if you don't see the similiarities between PSU and a school that allows someone who has been convicted of inapropriate relations with kids to go to Thailand on their dime with no supervision, you r head is buried it he sand.


Yeah, I missed the no supervision part. There should be an investigation to see who knew what about that, and if they knew he was actually doing something.
 
2012-08-14 10:00:03 AM

brobdiggy: Accreditation is an academic thing. Many times, it is living up to a standard and proving that, academically, you are successfully doing what you claim to be doing, which is educating.

As horrible as the recent PSU situation is, it does NOT warrant losing accreditation.

Based on recently discovered events, if ANY school deserves to lose accreditation, it's this one:

[eaglgymnastics.com image 297x240]

Short story of UNC:
Sham classes were offered to athletes who received high grades on transcripts, raising their grades so they could remain eligible.
What do I mean by sham? The classes didn't have assignments, and didn't even MEET.

This means that UNC was actually playing ineligible players, but the NCAA so far hasn't said anything about the case, and most likely won't. The case will just be quickly forgotten, and the knee-jerk reactionists and media can continue their cry for PSU to be burned down.


What conference are they in? Then again, I'd have to say that it takes teeth-pulling to get anything done for any team south of the Mason-Dixon.
 
2012-08-14 10:00:47 AM

babysealclubber: brobdiggy: Accreditation is an academic thing. Many times, it is living up to a standard and proving that, academically, you are successfully doing what you claim to be doing, which is educating.

As horrible as the recent PSU situation is, it does NOT warrant losing accreditation.

Based on recently discovered events, if ANY school deserves to lose accreditation, it's this one:

[eaglgymnastics.com image 297x240]

Short story of UNC:
Sham classes were offered to athletes who received high grades on transcripts, raising their grades so they could remain eligible.
What do I mean by sham? The classes didn't have assignments, and didn't even MEET.

This means that UNC was actually playing ineligible players, but the NCAA so far hasn't said anything about the case, and most likely won't. The case will just be quickly forgotten, and the knee-jerk reactionists and media can continue their cry for PSU to be burned down.

High grades? Apparently Julius Peppers had a D+ in black studies or Swahili or some shiat.


These were apparently accidentally put on line yesterday, by UNC:

Link

Link
 
2012-08-14 10:02:14 AM

Zik-Zak:
CLEANSE IT IN THE NAME OF THE EMPEROR!

/starting to get into WH40K, sorry


The only thing in need of a scorched earth cleansing are the rabid critics against Penn State - they act not much unlike the Orks.
 
2012-08-14 10:04:21 AM

Zik-Zak: As far as this thread is concerned, they're all kid-rapists by association. The janitors


The janitors knew about kids getting raped too and didnt say anything. Not that you botheres to read anything about it or you would have known that and left it out of you "ZOMG the PSU innocents will get hurt if good old PSU does, its too big to fail!" post.
 
2012-08-14 10:04:58 AM

Aarontology: liam76: Let me be up front about this. I am fine with crucifying the PSU admins who had a hand in this, but if you don't see the similiarities between PSU and a school that allows someone who has been convicted of inapropriate relations with kids to go to Thailand on their dime with no supervision, you r head is buried it he sand.

Yeah, I missed the no supervision part. There should be an investigation to see who knew what about that, and if they knew he was actually doing something.


PSU they had allegations he was doing something.

U Penn, he was convicted of doing something.

I am not saying they are exactly equal, but at the end of the day both administrations allowed people thay had reason to believe touched kids in a position to touch kids.

I don't know why you would need an investigation into U Penn to know if more punishment is needed, if you are for punishment at PSU outside the individuals who had a hand in it.
 
2012-08-14 10:05:48 AM

SpectroBoy: Rincewind53: I'm actually really against that. Think how many random non-football-loving Penn State alumni and students there now who would legitimately be seriously hurt by this.

True.

But think of this. If they set the precedent that looking the other way can cost you YOUR ENTIRE SCHOOL then it is MUCH less likely to happen again at another school.

I think there is a system-wide problem in looking the other way for sports teams in schools and going nuclear on Penn State would certainly help clean up that shiat.

And the current students can simply transfer. That's an inconvenience at most.


No, this wouldn't be just an inconvenience at most. It could be the difference between graduating with a degree and not graduating for thousands of students, possibly tens of thousands of students. Moving from one school to another isn't an easy thing at the best of times, but when you suddenly have upwards of 77,000 students all trying to find new schools to go to, that's going to be a huge issue.

Ironically the student athletes - you know, the ones who everyone is saying are being punished disproportionately for the crimes they have no control over - would have a much easier time of it. "John Smith, Sophomore Cornerback (Redshirted), currently 4th on the depth chart at Penn State, with a 3.4 GPA, is applying to Next Up University. Jane Jones, Sophomore and cute little woman from rural Pennsylvania, who was captain of her high school debate team, has a 3.9 GPA, is also applying to Next Up University. Next Up can only take one of them... so John Smith gets to come to school here, because he might bring in more money for the school by playing football! Sorry Jane, need to look somewhere else." Not to mention that the athletics programs at other schools are more likely to be able to find housing and financial aid for incoming player-athletes, than just the regular admission department. Athletics might be responsible for about 1,000 students. Admissions is responsible for every student that comes in, and most don't play intercollegiate sports.

If the do remove the academic accreditation for Penn State... that's when I'm going to say it's a step too far. Way too far. That's a death penalty for the University on the whole, and as other posters have said, the ones who truly deserve to be punished aren't going to be affected by this nearly as much as the ordinary students at the university. It's one thing to punish the administration and the athletics department; it's a whole other level to punish every single person on campus. Even if it's to send a message to the rest of the nation, that's way too much.

/Was completely on board with the NCAA sanctions to date. No sympathy for the school, etc., etc.
//This is where I draw a line and start to defend Penn State. Athletics and Administration needs to be punished, then utterly changed so this can never happen again. But ruining the entire university... way too far.
 
2012-08-14 10:06:30 AM

Alpha Sierra Foxtrot: The Muthaship: Kyro: You're supporting costing thousands of people their degrees and their jobs

No one loses their degree, no one necessarily loses their job. Whether or not the school loses their accreditation has no effect on their ability to run the school. It is a voluntary membership organization. They can also apply for re-accreditation later (in the unlikely event they actually lose it). Do you want colleges run by people whose SOP is covering up crimes of a very serious nature to be accredited institutions? I don't.

Who, exactly, is going to continue going to a non-accredited university?


Ummmm... U Pheonix grads?
 
2012-08-14 10:07:41 AM

IAmRight: Aarontology: The econ department in conjunction with senior administrative officials didn't cover up the crimes for over a decade in order to preserve the reputation, and more importantly, the income of the department, nor did those crimes happen in the econ department with the full knowledge of the administration.

"In 1993, Ward had been the subject of a sting at his Ardmore mansion, where several teenage boys lived with him, and he was accused of molesting a 13-year-old there as often as 100 times. But after two highly publicized trials, he was sentenced to just five years of probation, during which time he continued to teach at Wharton and to travel - on Penn's dime - to Thailand and other hot spots where the touch of a young boy could be had for a price."

Naw, they just knew about this and continued to employ him and continued to watch him work with at-risk kids for years, paying for him to go to Thailand and "work with" youth there. But naw, there's nothing reprehensible about their actions. Totally not the same, situations where the institution knew about a faculty member's pedophilia thanks to it being reported to police, the faculty member using connections to keep himself out of jail, and the university continuing to employ the person and pay for them to have sex with minors.


Seriously man, give it up. In reality, the entire thing was about University money and reputation. But to the people screaming about revenge, it is all about the football program. I'd wager most are fat, waddling lumps who either couldn't hack actual athletics or who got picked on during their emo phases by people who could. These people have no interest in punishing those responsible or finding justice for the victims.
 
2012-08-14 10:08:40 AM

dv-ous: Alpha Sierra Foxtrot: Who, exactly, is going to continue going to a non-accredited university?

Ummmm... U Pheonix grads?


That is a funny post. But Pheonix is actually accredited.
 
2012-08-14 10:10:05 AM

Kyro: But Pheonix is actually accredited.


I would sue them if I was in charge of Phoenix University.
 
2012-08-14 10:10:06 AM

mikaloyd: Zik-Zak: As far as this thread is concerned, they're all kid-rapists by association. The janitors

The janitors knew about kids getting raped too and didnt say anything. Not that you botheres to read anything about it or you would have known that and left it out of you "ZOMG the PSU innocents will get hurt if good old PSU does, its too big to fail!" post.


Hyperbole for effect, I'm lampooning the scorched-earth punishment fetishists. Lighten up.
 
2012-08-14 10:10:54 AM

sethstorm: see Penn State's appeal


What appeal? They have agreed to the penalty and chosen not to. The whiners on the sideline have no standing to do so, although they seem to think their opinions actually matter, which is cute.
 
2012-08-14 10:15:16 AM

Kyro: Carth: You didn't answer the question. If Penn State can't cover their financial obligations should they be treated like other schools and lose their accreditation?

Could someone let me know if Carth is a known troll? I'm not terribly active on the main page, but I'm having trouble believing somebody would be this intentionally misdirecting.

But I'll read the article to you anyway.

The commission said in an Aug. 8 notice that Penn State remains accredited while "on warning" but it wants a monitoring report submitted by the end of next month detailing steps taken to ensure full compliance with governmental requirements, that the university's mission is being carried out, that the commission will be fully informed and that Penn State is complying with standards on leadership and governance as well as integrity.

The commission also wants the report to address the university's ability to bear financial obligations stemming from "the investigation and related settlements, etc." It said "a small team visit" will be made, a standard practice "to verify institutional status and progress."

So rather than focusing on what the comission actually demanded an answer on, you're harping on their secondary point that was so critical they actually used "etc" in it?

But to answer your intentionally leading question: no, Penn State should not be immune to their financial obligations. However, I would task you to find me a university that's been in dire financial straights(easy) that's lost its accreditation(not quite as easy).


The first page of Google results for Colleges that lost their accreditation lists: St. Paul's College, Morris Brown College and City College of San Francisco as schools who lost their accreditation due to financial troubles in the past decade. It also gives others who were put on probation due to financial difficulties.

If you're really curious the MSCHE website lists all the schools they've placed on probation, warning and revoked the accreditation. Googling the schools that have faced problems show that more often than not it is due to financial problems.

I'm not surprised the news is leading with the more attention grabbing sex scandal news. But the actual notice sent by MSCHE to Penn State just says they are on being watch for three reasons one of which being to ensure they can meet the obligations that will arise due to financial costs associated with settlements and investigations.

I consider the financial concerns the most realistic threat to Penn State's accreditation and apparently you agree.
 
2012-08-14 10:15:52 AM

ha-ha-guy: Carth: Kyro: Carth: Did you read the article? The accreditation board is concerned with Penn State not being able to pay their bills. A school losing accreditation because it can't meet financial obligations isn't exactly a new phenomenon. Do you think Penn State should be exempt from the rules because their financial troubles come from legal problems?

Oh please. Don't be so dense. This is entirely the MSC rattling its sabre so they don't get viewed as looking the other way on the matter as Paterno did. They're covering their own asses by threatening to burn the whole building down.

You didn't answer the question. If Penn State can't cover their financial obligations should they be treated like other schools and lose their accreditation?

Never happen, the state of PA will prop up their flagship University to the tune of a couple billion if needed. The CiC will support them and grant direct to them to keep in decent fiscal health. PSU doesn't operate in a vacuum here.


I agree. Penn State is too big to fail.
 
2012-08-14 10:16:01 AM

CheatCommando: sethstorm: see Penn State's appeal

What appeal?


This one

Their opinions do matter whether you like it or not.
 
2012-08-14 10:16:56 AM
Everyone ever connected with Penn State needs to be given the death penalty. Anyone with a PSU degree, put them in front of a firing squad. Anyone who ever visited Happy Valley and contributed to the local economy? Hang them. Every past founder and alumni of Penn State? Dig them up and burn them. Exile the state of Pennsylvania from the United States, burn the entire university to the ground, and salt the earth.

CHILDREN WERE RAPED, DON'T YOU GET IT???!!! CHILDREN WERE RAPED!! IF YOU DON'T SUPPORT THESE ACTIONS, YOU SUPPORT CHILD RAPE!!!!
 
2012-08-14 10:17:03 AM

Super_pope: Its like advocating the addition of a really big fine to the penalties for murder. Maybe they won't murder if they know there'll be a financial risk!

Idiot

Someone

hasn't heard of the concept of marijuana tax stamps, have they?

For those unfamiliar--in twenty states (which are an almost identical set, of note, with those states where even marijuana for medical purposes is illegal and which have explicitly not decriminalised possession of small amounts) you are technically required to purchase a tax stamp if you possess marijuana (just like tobacco cigarettes are supposed to have a tiny tax stamp on them).

If folks get busted and they didn't get the tax stamp, they can technically be busted for tax evasion above and beyond the usual charges; if someone DOES buy a marijuana tax stamp, that's prima facie evidence that they're in possession of an illicit substance--and usually to a degree that would not only be considered a felony but frank intent to distribute.

(For example, in Kentucky (which has no medical marijuana law and still aggressively prosecutes mere possession), you're supposed to get a marijuana tax stamp if you own more than five plants or 42.5 grams, and the tax rates are steep ($1000 per plant or $150 for the minimum amount with increases of $3.50 per gram afterwards). Failure to pay the tax is double the amount of the tax and it's considered a class C felony (with imprisonment of 5-10 years and a possible fine of up to $10,000).

(Of course, if one WERE to get a tax stamp, you've just admitted to a class D felony of 1-5 years imprisonment (with mandatory minimums) and a fine of $10,000 if you admit to owning plants, or a misdemeanor possession-with-intent-to-sell charge with penalty of up to 1 year in prison and $500 fine (possession of less than 8 oz for personal use is still up to 45 days in jail and a $250 fine here; 42.5 grams is a little less than 2 ounces). Kentucky also treats mere possession of more than 8 grams as prima facie intent to distribute, which automatically bumps it up to a felony.

(So it's a real case of "damned if you do, damned if you don't"; if you have a little bit and the courts want to be particularly nasty, they charge you with not getting a tax stamp for your joint (which bumps up a misdemeanor charge to a major felony), if you do, you stand a good chance of being charged with a felony.)

(Yes, my state has some of the strictest laws in the US re marijuana and I'll be pleasantly surprised if "medical marijuana" is legalised within my lifetime here; the laws used to be written so broadly that having hemp rope was legally defined as marijuana possession; it wasn't until the 1990s that non-THC-bearing hemp was legalised in the state, and that mostly because it was being promoted as an alternative to tobacco production.)
 
2012-08-14 10:17:32 AM
New Rule: Anything Joe Pa didnt see never happened and cannot be held against Penn State. To protect people.
 
2012-08-14 10:19:25 AM

thibor: thats great, they will punish everyone but the people responsible. the people responsible will still get their pensions and negotiated retirements. the educators, support staff, students and surrounding community will be the ones to suffer. gotta love good ole murican justice. murica fark yeah!


Isn't that how life is nowadays?

Banks fail? Take the money from the people and prop up the banks.
Underwater on your mortgage/home? Take the money from those who have paid off their mortgage or made their payments on time and use it to pay down the principal on those who are delinquent/underwater.
Some guy goes apeshiat in a movie theatre? Take everyones right to keep and bear arms away.
Someone molests children? Take it out on the stufdent body.

Its the American way.
 
2012-08-14 10:19:46 AM
this has really made me think. i'm very lucky to have attended a school where athletics didn't matter, the athletes never got any special attention, and nothing was more important than integrity.

go buckeyes!
 
2012-08-14 10:20:45 AM

sethstorm: CheatCommando: sethstorm: see Penn State's appeal

What appeal?

This one

Their opinions do matter whether you like it or not.


Well yeah. Penn State is too important to be punished without a fight. The motto of PSU is We Are Big! Fu*K The Small!
 
2012-08-14 10:21:08 AM
i50.tinypic.com
i49.tinypic.com
 
2012-08-14 10:23:26 AM
I think they need to take away everyone's degree and any money anyone has made at a job they have gotten with a degree from there has to pay it back. I think that's only reasonable.
 
2012-08-14 10:28:30 AM

YouWinAgainGravity: Everyone ever connected with Penn State needs to be given the death penalty. Anyone with a PSU degree, put them in front of a firing squad. Anyone who ever visited Happy Valley and contributed to the local economy? Hang them. Every past founder and alumni of Penn State? Dig them up and burn them. Exile the state of Pennsylvania from the United States, burn the entire university to the ground, and salt the earth.

CHILDREN WERE RAPED, DON'T YOU GET IT???!!! CHILDREN WERE RAPED!! IF YOU DON'T SUPPORT THESE ACTIONS, YOU SUPPORT CHILD RAPE!!!!


Needs more Helen Lovejoy.

/too lazy to find one
//this coffee sucks
 
2012-08-14 10:28:42 AM
The school is done. Who in their right mind would apply to Penn State now? Next year's freshman class will be 80% foreign students.
 
2012-08-14 10:29:35 AM

YouWinAgainGravity: Everyone ever connected with Penn State needs to be given the death penalty. Anyone with a PSU degree, put them in front of a firing squad. Anyone who ever visited Happy Valley and contributed to the local economy? Hang them. Every past founder and alumni of Penn State? Dig them up and burn them. Exile the state of Pennsylvania from the United States, burn the entire university to the ground, and salt the earth.

CHILDREN WERE RAPED, DON'T YOU GET IT???!!! CHILDREN WERE RAPED!! IF YOU DON'T SUPPORT THESE ACTIONS, YOU SUPPORT CHILD RAPE!!!!


You don't realize you sound just as breathlessly unhinged as the people you are purportedly mocking when you do that.
 
2012-08-14 10:30:42 AM

someonelse: YouWinAgainGravity: Everyone ever connected with Penn State needs to be given the death penalty. Anyone with a PSU degree, put them in front of a firing squad. Anyone who ever visited Happy Valley and contributed to the local economy? Hang them. Every past founder and alumni of Penn State? Dig them up and burn them. Exile the state of Pennsylvania from the United States, burn the entire university to the ground, and salt the earth.

CHILDREN WERE RAPED, DON'T YOU GET IT???!!! CHILDREN WERE RAPED!! IF YOU DON'T SUPPORT THESE ACTIONS, YOU SUPPORT CHILD RAPE!!!!

You don't realize you sound just as breathlessly unhinged as the people you are purportedly mocking when you do that.


thatsthejoke.jpg
 
2012-08-14 10:31:20 AM
Sometimes actions taken by a school's administrators may in fact put their school's accreditation at risk. Sometimes a school's accreditation is removed and yes, any students of that school suffer the consequences. This system is important though, and those students who end up suffering are not more important than the overall program goal of identifying which schools are able to provide a quality education to potential customers.

So this triggered a review of PSU. I doubt that they will lose their accreditation, but if they do....big deal. Current high school students need to be made aware of a school that is no longer capable of holding up its end of the education bargain.
 
2012-08-14 10:31:28 AM
FTFA:

The commission said in an Aug. 8 notice that Penn State remains accredited while "on warning" but it wants a monitoring report submitted by the end of next month detailing steps taken to ensure full compliance with governmental requirements, that the university's mission is being carried out, that the commission will be fully informed and that Penn State is complying with standards on leadership and governance as well as integrity.



Yeah about that... not gonna happen. PSU has already sued and won in court the right to not give up any records (as they are were peviously required to do as a publicly funded entity) presumably because bad things happen to PSU when people look too closely at what Penn State does. Expect a long assed expensive court battle from PSU against anything and anybody trying to excercise any sort of right to know with PSU. Their flowers wilt badly under the light of public scrutiny.
 
2012-08-14 10:33:22 AM
What Sandusky did was wrong and horrible. Joe should have told the police and not just kicked it up the ladder. But had Sandusky robbed a bank would they be punishing the entire University,students, and town.
Everyone wants to jump on the beat up PSU bandwagon. It's the new Salem Witch Trials.Burn them at the stake just because it's entertaining.
 
2012-08-14 10:39:16 AM

H31N0US: The school is done. Who in their right mind would apply to Penn State now?


Nobody. You'd have to be a total retard not to realize that all the knowledge has been drained out of the school and it went down the drain with the water from the showers.
 
2012-08-14 10:40:26 AM

Pavia_Resistance: MAYORBOB: Animatronik: Penn State is a world class university, which has nothing to do with Paterno or the administrators who looked the other way.

They shouldnt destroy the university over this, just make institute reforms.

In which world?

The same one that you and I reside in. Ranked 51st in the world according to this list Link


Check back in a couple of years, especially if the school loses its accreditation.
 
2012-08-14 10:41:18 AM

Stoj: [i50.tinypic.com image 580x224]
[i49.tinypic.com image 290x160]


Reminds me of the asshole at the padres game last week that tried to start a "We are" fapfest.

Shouted down immediately.
 
2012-08-14 10:42:31 AM

gremlin1: What Sandusky did was wrong and horrible. Joe should have told the police and not just kicked it up the ladder. But had Sandusky robbed a bank would they be punishing the entire University,students, and town.
Everyone wants to jump on the beat up PSU bandwagon. It's the new Salem Witch Trials.Burn them at the stake just because it's entertaining.



What if he tore the tags off mattresses instead of raping kids? And instead of everyone from the janitors through the top of the food chain hiding his mattress tag shenanigans they turned him in? And no riots happened afterwards? That would have been totes awesome. There would be rainbows glowing and unicorns leaping playfully in happy valley right now. That'd be awesome sauce.
 
2012-08-14 10:43:13 AM

gremlin1: What Sandusky did was wrong and horrible. Joe should have told the police and not just kicked it up the ladder. But had Sandusky robbed a bank would they be punishing the entire University,students, and town.
Everyone wants to jump on the beat up PSU bandwagon. It's the new Salem Witch Trials.Burn them at the stake just because it's entertaining.



Had Sandusky been systematically robbing banks for over a decade while the football Program and University Leaders been knowledgeable and actively involved in the cover-up of said serial crime, it still would have been a pretty big deal. Not as big of a deal as what it currently is, but that's because it's silly to imply that the two crimes are even closer to similar in degree of heinousness.

It's important to note that most of what Penn State is eating right now is a result of the cover-up, not the crime (which is usually how it works).
 
2012-08-14 10:43:41 AM
When will the vengeance be satisfied?
 
2012-08-14 10:45:42 AM

chachi88: Stoj: [i50.tinypic.com image 580x224]
[i49.tinypic.com image 290x160]

Reminds me of the asshole at the padres game last week that tried to start a "We are" fapfest.

Shouted down immediately.


I've never understood why people find flash mobs appealing.
 
2012-08-14 10:46:13 AM
Jerry Sandusky academically abused me in the library.
 
2012-08-14 10:48:07 AM

Lawnchair: Endive Wombat: What happens with the physical school itself?

Minimum-security prison?

Not kidding... that's what I've seen happen to some (much, much smaller) defunct colleges.


Excellent. Just put chains on the doors and be done with it.
 
2012-08-14 10:55:13 AM

CapnBlues: When will the vengeance be satisfied?


Probably after PSU cult members admit cultural culpability and try to change the culture that allowed this to happen rather than propping it up and furthermore put in place some transparent outside oversight to ensure that not only are other transgressions brought to light but also that this sort of thing never happens again at Penn State. Unless and until that happens the whole place is a slimy cesspit of hiding places for whatever it is they enjoy hiding at PSU. Or when its nuked from orbit for being a slimy unreformed unapologetic cesspit, Whichever
 
2012-08-14 10:58:25 AM

mikaloyd: CapnBlues: When will the vengeance be satisfied?

Probably after PSU cult members admit cultural culpability and try to change the culture that allowed this to happen rather than propping it up and furthermore put in place some transparent outside oversight to ensure that not only are other transgressions brought to light but also that this sort of thing never happens again at Penn State. Unless and until that happens the whole place is a slimy cesspit of hiding places for whatever it is they enjoy hiding at PSU.


Tell me how the university could prove this. Tell me how any university could prove this.

Unless... I can't remember, are you one of the users here that has just always hated PSU and is using this as your opportunity to hurt the whole school? I've been gone from fark for a few months, so i don't remember. Your name is familiar to me. In fact, this conversation is reminding me why I've been gone from fark for a few months. Forget it, have a good one, man. All the best to you.
 
2012-08-14 10:58:32 AM

CapnBlues: When will the vengeance be satisfied?


What vengeance? Some large accrediting organization is shuffling papers around to make themselves look busy and otherwise "adhere to policy". Nothing will happen.

Calm the f*ck down.
 
2012-08-14 11:03:23 AM

CapnBlues: mikaloyd: CapnBlues: When will the vengeance be satisfied?

Probably after PSU cult members admit cultural culpability and try to change the culture that allowed this to happen rather than propping it up and furthermore put in place some transparent outside oversight to ensure that not only are other transgressions brought to light but also that this sort of thing never happens again at Penn State. Unless and until that happens the whole place is a slimy cesspit of hiding places for whatever it is they enjoy hiding at PSU.

Tell me how the university could prove this. Tell me how any university could prove this.

Unless... I can't remember, are you one of the users here that has just always hated PSU and is using this as your opportunity to hurt the whole school? I've been gone from fark for a few months, so i don't remember. Your name is familiar to me. In fact, this conversation is reminding me why I've been gone from fark for a few months. Forget it, have a good one, man. All the best to you.


Please do tell, how much of an effect will the collective hate of Fark have on PSU?
 
2012-08-14 11:03:26 AM
You would think that academically they would get into more trouble from their boot licking the fracking industry.
 
2012-08-14 11:04:29 AM

Kyro: thatboyoverthere: Yelp I'm having a really hard time giving a fark for them.

How about the engineering student that went to Penn State, was completely disinterested in football and is now job searching with a toxic degree? How is this at all that student's fault?


I'm pretty sure HR managers can use something called "a calendar" and realize that said student's degree was granted before the loss of accreditation. It would suck more to be a senior at the school right now, but as others have said, there are always options.
 
2012-08-14 11:12:40 AM

mikaloyd: admit cultural culpability


This is the dumbest phrase ever and by "cultural culpability" standards everyone everywhere is a criminal.
 
2012-08-14 11:12:41 AM
fine. Wharton sucks too. does more kids being raped elsewhere apply to the NCAA actions against Penn State?

/ what is up with raping kids in Pennsylvania? it's like an institution or something.
/ PSU shouldn't be nuked, but they should comply with the law. same goes for Wharton.
 
2012-08-14 11:23:20 AM
Never went to Penn State. Don't care about college football. Don't really even care about the college I went to, let alone some college halfway across the country.

This is going too far.
 
2012-08-14 11:28:59 AM

brobdiggy: Sham classes were offered to athletes who received high grades on transcripts, raising their grades so they could remain eligible.
What do I mean by sham? The classes didn't have assignments, and didn't even MEET.


That's the difference. There was too much meeting goin on at Penn State.
/if you know what I mean
//and I think you do.
 
2012-08-14 11:40:32 AM

taliesinwi: I'm pretty sure HR managers can use something called "a calendar" and realize that said student's degree was granted before the loss of accreditation. It would suck more to be a senior at the school right now, but as others have said, there are always options.


Maybe. If you take away accreditation tens of thousands of students, maybe with 100+ credits, are screwed. If those credits lose value the students may be out upwards of $50k and several years of their lives and of course student loans follow you until you die. Scholarship football players can always almost transfer to a lower caliber football school and find someone to give them a scholarship, or keep their scholarship and not play (per the terms of the NCAA punishment) but the same isn't true of the rest of the students who would see their degree lose most of its value. There's no guarantee anyone would take them as transfers or accept the credits, and for all the in state students benefiting from in state state school tuition almost anywhere else they could go would be more expensive anyway.

As a punishment this is a ridiculous overreach and I'd be surprised as hell if it happens.
 
2012-08-14 11:48:22 AM

Great Porn Dragon: Super_pope: Its like advocating the addition of a really big fine to the penalties for murder. Maybe they won't murder if they know there'll be a financial risk!

Idiot

Someone hasn't heard of the concept of marijuana tax stamps, have they?

For those unfamiliar--in twenty states (which are an almost identical set, of note, with those states where even marijuana for medical purposes is illegal and which have explicitly not decriminalised possession of small amounts) you are technically required to purchase a tax stamp if you possess marijuana (just like tobacco cigarettes are supposed to have a tiny tax stamp on them).

If folks get busted and they didn't get the tax stamp, they can technically be busted for tax evasion above and beyond the usual charges; if someone DOES buy a marijuana tax stamp, that's prima facie evidence that they're in possession of an illicit substance--and usually to a degree that would not only be considered a felony but frank intent to distribute.

(For example, in Kentucky (which has no medical marijuana law and still aggressively prosecutes mere possession), you're supposed to get a marijuana tax stamp if you own more than five plants or 42.5 grams, and the tax rates are steep ($1000 per plant or $150 for the minimum amount with increases of $3.50 per gram afterwards). Failure to pay the tax is double the amount of the tax and it's considered a class C felony (with imprisonment of 5-10 years and a possible fine of up to $10,000).

(Of course, if one WERE to get a tax stamp, you've just admitted to a class D felony of 1-5 years imprisonment (with mandatory minimums) and a fine of $10,000 if you admit to owning plants, or a misdemeanor possession-with-intent-to-sell charge with penalty of up to 1 year in prison and $500 fine (possession of less than 8 oz for personal use is still up to 45 days in jail and a $250 fine here; 42.5 grams is a little less than 2 ounces). Kentucky also treats mere possession of more than 8 grams as prima faci ...


That has nothing to do with dissuading people and everything to do with trying to extract more revenue from people after they're caught. Is a TAX STAMP a deterrent? Uh... yeah I guess. Is it meaningless in relation to going to jail for 20 years? Yep. Tax evasion? Okay I guess that's a little extra time, but you were already losing a huge chunk of your life.
 
2012-08-14 11:48:53 AM

sethstorm: CheatCommando: sethstorm: see Penn State's appeal

What appeal?

This one

Their opinions do matter whether you like it or not.


Nope. Paterno was an employee, his employer has accepted the sanctions. Deal with it. This will be laughed out of court.
 
2012-08-14 11:56:30 AM
There is a whole lot of stupid in this thread.

This warning from the accreditation commission isn't an attack on Penn State or piling on like some in this thread are claiming. This is a very warranted investigation into the financial stability of the school. Penn State is looking at millions of dollars in settlements it is going to have to pay as a result of this scandal and right now know body knows exactly how many people will come forward. So this scandal is going to tie Penn State up financially for years. If Penn State is unable to show that they have enough money to remain stable they will have their accreditation either pulled or be put on probation.

In a situation like this, this is a real concern. Unless you think that it is ok for a school to remain accredited when there is a real possibility that it could run out of money and either close its doors or cut classes halfway through a semester and tell students that have already paid tuition too bad.
 
2012-08-14 11:56:47 AM
This thread is proof of what I said above, the public is done with this scandal. It's over in their eyes. No real change taking place at Penn State University but that does not matter, what matters is football will begin soon and the community will heal. Those poor aggrieved souls!
 
2012-08-14 11:59:27 AM
Just look at all these farks I give!

1.bp.blogspot.com

/this is why you don't protect child farkers
 
2012-08-14 12:02:01 PM

Rincewind53: The president of a college has very little to do with day-to-day academics, and much more to do with fundraising and long-term strategy.


He didn't think this strategy all the way through now, did he?
 
2012-08-14 12:05:52 PM

spentmiles: Revoking Penn State's entire academic accreditation ranks as the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Did the Computer Science Department train Sandusky to create Excel spreadsheets for tracking vulnerable children? Did the English Department teach him to write loving sonnets and whisper them sweetly to young boys as he twirled his fingers in their hair? Did the psychology department tutor him in manipulation techniques? No, no, and no. Why should the faculty, support staff, and students of these areas be punished for the crimes of the athletic department?

As outlined in the Freech report, the low level employees of the athletic department were responsible for recruiting young boys by way of various football camps. The underlings, like McQueary, got the scraps while the choice pickings were sent up the line to Sandusky. Sandusky, along with those of similar rank, then tested the boys with various forms of sexual abuse. The cream of the crop -- the 1-2% out of the hundreds of applicants -- were then sent up to Paterno who basically wrote the book on sodomy. When Paterno was done with the kid, he'd have sex with him one last time while slitting his throat. The janitors of the athletic department would then discard the bodies in the incinerators. As Freech pointed out, this system went on for decades. It ran so smoothly that no one detected a thing. It wasn't until McQueary sent a boy with herpes up the chain that Sandusky got angry and threatened to fire him. McQueary, whose wife was battling ovarian cancer at the time, couldn't afford to lose his medical benefits, so he blew the proverbial whistle.

Yet even with all of those facts, the NCAA just slapped their wrists and sent them to the corner for a little while. If I was a Penn State student, I would dig up Paterno myself and defile his corpse with an ax handle. As to why Sandusky is still alive testifies to the far reach of college football. I'm sure he's promising scholarships to every inmate ...


You are without doubt my favorite troll.
Pro homosexual child rape.
Pro religious violence.(as long as its the white Jesus christian kind)
Pro oligarchy.
Pro government.
Pro police. (brutality corruption etc.)
Pro racist.
Anti constitution.
Anti civil rights.
Anti freedom.


On a related note would stripping Penn State's accreditation also strip financial aid? If so I'm all for it.
 
2012-08-14 12:10:11 PM

LiberalEastCoastElitist: What scares me about Penn state is that I have no reason to believe that other school administrations (or any other bureaucracy) isn't capable of something similar.


the cult of Penn State was heavily dependent on the image of Paterno. I agree that this could probably happen elsewhere, but the breadth of this scandal was made possible by the fact that this cult had a leader. That isn't true everywhere.
 
2012-08-14 12:10:17 PM

Super_pope: SpectroBoy: But think of this. If they set the precedent that looking the other way can cost you YOUR ENTIRE SCHOOL then it is MUCH less likely to happen again at another school.

The people who were responsible for this VERY clearly did something illegal. In the face of being imprisoned, (and our penalties for this kind of thing are STEEP) the idea that the place you work might be shuttered is incredibly moronic, and has been from the beginning.

Its like advocating the addition of a really big fine to the penalties for murder. Maybe they won't murder if they know there'll be a financial risk!

Idiot


Punishments don't work, we should just let people get away with doing whatever the fark they want to!

Idiot.
 
2012-08-14 12:23:08 PM

spentmiles: Why should the faculty, support staff, and students of these areas be punished for the crimes of the athletic department?


Because it's cool to call anyone and everyone affiliated with PSU enablers.

That aside, I think the accreditation issue has more to do with how much money PSU will have after they get hammered with lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit. I personally would like to know that the school I went to wasn't flat broke after the athletic department and the administration thought it was a better idea to protect a child rapist than to protect the community and the children who were victimized.

/PSU alum
//Good luck getting any money from me
 
2012-08-14 12:24:46 PM
farm3.static.flickr.com
 
2012-08-14 12:29:39 PM

Krustofsky: /PSU alum
//Good luck getting any money from me


Yep. They got all they're gonna get outta me when I was a student.
 
2012-08-14 12:32:04 PM

Great Porn Dragon: (For example, in Kentucky (which has no medical marijuana law and still aggressively prosecutes mere possession), you're supposed to get a marijuana tax stamp if you own more than five plants or 42.5 grams, and the tax rates are steep ($1000 per plant or $150 for the minimum amount with increases of $3.50 per gram afterwards). Failure to pay the tax is double the amount of the tax and it's considered a class C felony (with imprisonment of 5-10 years and a possible fine of up to $10,000).


ERROR: Matching ')' not found
 
2012-08-14 12:39:47 PM

liam76: spentmiles: I heard on NPR yesterday that Obama is putting together a plan to buy back all of those toxic degrees and replace them with Harvard diplomas. Those poor kids were duped into attending PSU by predatory admissions officers

What is Romney's stance on this?


wide
 
2012-08-14 12:41:52 PM

Endive Wombat: Fine, assuming they lose their accreditation, the school is toast at that point. Students can transfer to other schools...the campus basically becomes a ghost town. What happens with the physical school itself?


It becomes a movie set, or set of a TV show... or another school moves in.
 
2012-08-14 12:45:03 PM

Pichu0102: I'm pretty sure I was wondering of the students should sue because that Penn State degrees could become toxic and not worth what they paid for anymore.
Still wondering that now.


Why would students' degrees now be toxic? No students were accused of molestation, just the faculty. That's like saying anyone from Aurora, CO should be allowed to sue because being from Aurora is toxic and they'll have a hard time getting a job. The perpetrators, in both scenarios, have been caught, and everyone knows it.
 
2012-08-14 12:59:55 PM

stonicus: Pichu0102: I'm pretty sure I was wondering of the students should sue because that Penn State degrees could become toxic and not worth what they paid for anymore.
Still wondering that now.

Why would students' degrees now be toxic? No students were accused of molestation, just the faculty. That's like saying anyone from Aurora, CO should be allowed to sue because being from Aurora is toxic and they'll have a hard time getting a job. The perpetrators, in both scenarios, have been caught, and everyone knows it.


That is the reason that Penn State supporters give to support their argument that Penn State shouldn't be punished for any of this.

Like I have said in previous Penn State threads, just wait until the civil suits start rolling in. When this happens you will really hear some disgusting shiat flow from the mouths of Penn State supporters.
 
2012-08-14 01:05:10 PM

ongbok: stonicus: Pichu0102: I'm pretty sure I was wondering of the students should sue because that Penn State degrees could become toxic and not worth what they paid for anymore.
Still wondering that now.

Why would students' degrees now be toxic? No students were accused of molestation, just the faculty. That's like saying anyone from Aurora, CO should be allowed to sue because being from Aurora is toxic and they'll have a hard time getting a job. The perpetrators, in both scenarios, have been caught, and everyone knows it.

That is the reason that Penn State supporters give to support their argument that Penn State shouldn't be punished for any of this.

Like I have said in previous Penn State threads, just wait until the civil suits start rolling in. When this happens you will really hear some disgusting shiat flow from the mouths of Penn State supporters.


The students didn't screw up, But Penn State did. The students should be protected and shielded from blowback, but the instution itself is deserving of punishment. When you hire a teacher, or department head, or a football coach, you're saying "this person is part of Penn State now".
 
2012-08-14 01:15:54 PM
I called for the death penalty, but this isn't quite what I had in mind.
 
2012-08-14 01:26:14 PM
Finally. Good by Penn State. No one's going to miss you.

/only way to go after Neisworth and Lasaga
//feel a bit sorry for the students
///no pity for the profs, admins, and staff
 
2012-08-14 01:26:28 PM

stonicus: ongbok: stonicus: Pichu0102: I'm pretty sure I was wondering of the students should sue because that Penn State degrees could become toxic and not worth what they paid for anymore.
Still wondering that now.

Why would students' degrees now be toxic? No students were accused of molestation, just the faculty. That's like saying anyone from Aurora, CO should be allowed to sue because being from Aurora is toxic and they'll have a hard time getting a job. The perpetrators, in both scenarios, have been caught, and everyone knows it.

That is the reason that Penn State supporters give to support their argument that Penn State shouldn't be punished for any of this.

Like I have said in previous Penn State threads, just wait until the civil suits start rolling in. When this happens you will really hear some disgusting shiat flow from the mouths of Penn State supporters.

The students didn't screw up, But Penn State did. The students should be protected and shielded from blowback, but the instution itself is deserving of punishment. When you hire a teacher, or department head, or a football coach, you're saying "this person is part of Penn State now".


Seriously, what blow back are the students getting? They won't have a good football team? Is anybody denying Penn State alumni, current students or faculty any jobs? No. None of that is happening and any talk of it is just the people that want Penn State to walk away free and clear claiming that they are victims.

And this whole accreditation flap is a real concern due to the fact that Penn State is facing huge financial burden and there are real concerns whether or not they can remain solvent.
 
2012-08-14 01:32:48 PM

Zik-Zak: Pochas: Penn State raised 7 million dollars last year for children with cancer, they raise a similar amount of money every year.

Research is carried out there to create novel methods of treating all manner of diseases.

Example : http://live.psu.edu/story/55260

They also do research for renewable energy, fundamental science, space exploration.

I think there ought to be some punishment for what Sandusky did, but consider how many people, and which people, are really being punished if the school is shut down.

As far as this thread is concerned, they're all kid-rapists by association. The janitors, the international students, the scientists (those white-tower elitists), the food staff, the freshmen who are just now moving into the dorms, they're guilty too. So is all of central PA. Hell, the Big 10 have their hands dirty as well, burn everything!

CLEANSE IT IN THE NAME OF THE EMPEROR!

/starting to get into WH40K, sorry


Two scientists at Penn State, Lasaga and Neisworth, with no ties to the football program, also raped kids. Lasaga is serving 20 years for raping a kid after he moved to Yale. Neisworth paid an out of court settlement and is professor for the development of autistic children.

There is also the small matter of missing DA and presumed to be dead Ray Gricar.
 
2012-08-14 01:33:23 PM

beta_plus:
///no pity for the profs


yeah, that farking football loving childrape empowering philosophy department. They should have done more.
 
2012-08-14 01:35:23 PM

beta_plus:
There is also the small matter of missing DA and presumed to be dead Ray Gricar.


You have no idea how deep the rabbit hole goes. JFK was assassinated because of PSU. The Challenger was shot down because it carried PSU evidence. 9/11 was an inside job to distract the media from PSU.
 
2012-08-14 01:35:53 PM
It's funny all the people who think this is going too far for Penn State were at best awfully quiet or outright cheering when these guys paid the ultimate price:

www.infoservices.com

/those poor, poor accountants who had their lives ruined and had nothing to do with Enron
 
2012-08-14 01:37:36 PM

Axissillian: beta_plus:
///no pity for the profs

yeah, that farking football loving childrape empowering philosophy department. They should have done more.


You mean like Lasaga and Neisworth?

/one pedo is a tragedy
//two pedos is a coincidence
///three - that's a bit suspicious
 
2012-08-14 01:41:01 PM

Axissillian: beta_plus:
There is also the small matter of missing DA and presumed to be dead Ray Gricar.

You have no idea how deep the rabbit hole goes. JFK was assassinated because of PSU. The Challenger was shot down because it carried PSU evidence. 9/11 was an inside job to distract the media from PSU.


yep, nothing suspicious about his disappearance. He was only just the guy in charge of investigating PSU. After he disappeared, his car was found abandoned and locked with cigarette ash in it despite him being a non-smoker, his laptop was found in the river WITH THE HARD DRIVE MISSING, and when the hard drive was later recovered it was in such bad shape that the guys who got the flight data from the Challenger couldn't read it. I'm sure it was just some tweeker desperate for cash who did it.

/but that's no reason to suspect the PSU admins
 
2012-08-14 01:45:41 PM

beta_plus: It's funny all the people who think this is going too far for Penn State were at best awfully quiet or outright cheering when these guys paid the ultimate price:


An outside agency didn't go in and force them to close up - they were forced to close because no one wanted to employ them anymore and the lawsuits swallowed up their assets. Similarly, Enron didn't have the money it claimed it had, then its stock dried up. It wasn't forced to close by the government.

If that happens here, no one wants to go there anymore and the settlements take up everything they have, then so be it. That is not what the "I hate Penn State" brigade is advocating, however.
 
2012-08-14 01:46:39 PM

beta_plus: yep, nothing suspicious about his disappearance. He was only just the guy in charge of investigating PSU. After he disappeared, his car was found abandoned and locked with cigarette ash in it despite him being a non-smoker, his laptop was found in the river WITH THE HARD DRIVE MISSING, and when the hard drive was later recovered it was in such bad shape that the guys who got the flight data from the Challenger couldn't read it. I'm sure it was just some tweeker desperate for cash who did it.


He was also working on a case involving the mob at the time. But I'm sure those guys are just "tweekers desperate for cash."
 
2012-08-14 01:46:50 PM

beta_plus:
yep, nothing suspicious about his disappearance. He was only just the guy in charge of investigating PSU. After he disappeared, his car was found abandoned and locked with cigarette ash in it despite him being a non-smoker, his laptop was found in the river WITH THE HARD DRIVE MISSING, and when the hard drive was later recovered it was in such bad shape that the guys who got the flight data from the Challenger couldn't read it. I'm sure it was just some tweeker desperate for cash who did it.

/but that's no reason to suspect the PSU admins


Ok cool, I just wanted to confirm you get all your information from conspiracy websites and forums, and have never, you know, read a newspaper.

Hint: read a newspaper to find out why everything you just said is comically dumb.
 
2012-08-14 01:54:15 PM
FTFA: "This action has nothing to do with the quality of education our students receive,"

End of quote: "Except, you know, for the ones who are getting raped while in our care..."
 
2012-08-14 01:55:42 PM
For the Butt Hurt PSU defenders:

Except for some OSU fans, this is not about PSU in particular. Most of us couldn't care less about college football - the NFL is a far better game and more conveniently scheduled. This is about corruption so extreme in American academia that the sexual assault of children became OK across multiple departments (google Lasgaga and Neisworth). The only reason PSU has been allowed to continue to exist even this long is because it's a school. Any other institution would have been shuttered in weeks if not days. PSU can scream "nothing is more important than education! it's for our future!" and get at least a delay and possible pass where no one else could ("it's for the children!" probably doesn't work anymore, though). This shouldn't be the case. No person or institution is supposed to be above the law.

It's pretty obvious that this has been going on for a long time at many different schools. If there is a reason to pick on PSU in particular, it is the astounding arrogance in which the school's admins, profs, staff, and students have behaved in this case.

If they could shut down Wharton, the Citadel, LA County Public Schools, or any other academic institution that has pulling this garbage, we'd cheer just as hard.
 
2012-08-14 02:04:07 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Punishments don't work, we should just let people get away with doing whatever the fark they want to!

Idiot.



Threatening to burn down the office of a child molester who's going to jail for the rest of his life is not going to make other people who molest children think, "Oh shoot. I really like my desk. Better not have sex with kids!"

Punishment works just fine. Taking on gigantic punitive sanctions for other people onto a criminal's punishments is stupid and meaningless. Making useless threats when gigantic civil and criminal penalties have already been committed to is pointless. "These guys would have thought twice if they knew the football program would get the death penalty!"

No. No they farking wouldn't have. They didn't think twice about GOING TO JAIL FOR A FEW DECADES. Its sad that you think the people who commit crimes like this are going to worry about a little football.
 
2012-08-14 02:05:05 PM

beta_plus: his is about corruption so extreme in American academia that the sexual assault of children became OK across multiple departments (google Lasgaga and Neisworth).


Ok, I am gonna have to call bullshiat on this one since you seem so dedicated to using it as a crutch.

With Lasaga and Neisworth, there were both not enough evidence to even press charges. Hell, the only person in the Neisworth case who did have charges pressed was also acquitted. How was Penn State involved in this? Do you really think a completely different administration from the one in the Sandusky situation put in a concerted effort to destroy literally all the evidence of wrong-doing at a moment's notice?

Or, do you think that literally anyone accused of a crime should be immediately assumed guilty and banned from any job anywhere for life? Because, while it is a tragedy when a child predator gets away from a lack of evidence, its also a tragedy for an innocent person to have their life ruined because we "want to be super duper safe and sure."

I cannot tell you if you are delusional or merely stupid.
 
2012-08-14 02:05:46 PM

Axissillian: beta_plus:
yep, nothing suspicious about his disappearance. He was only just the guy in charge of investigating PSU. After he disappeared, his car was found abandoned and locked with cigarette ash in it despite him being a non-smoker, his laptop was found in the river WITH THE HARD DRIVE MISSING, and when the hard drive was later recovered it was in such bad shape that the guys who got the flight data from the Challenger couldn't read it. I'm sure it was just some tweeker desperate for cash who did it.

/but that's no reason to suspect the PSU admins

Ok cool, I just wanted to confirm you get all your information from conspiracy websites and forums, and have never, you know, read a newspaper.

Hint: read a newspaper to find out why everything you just said is comically dumb.


No one really knows. But in those cases, look at who has the biggest incentive to make someone like that disappear.

/hint: it's not the mob
//maybe you should stop reading alternet so much
 
2012-08-14 02:10:48 PM

Axissillian: beta_plus: his is about corruption so extreme in American academia that the sexual assault of children became OK across multiple departments (google Lasgaga and Neisworth).

Ok, I am gonna have to call bullshiat on this one since you seem so dedicated to using it as a crutch.

With Lasaga and Neisworth, there were both not enough evidence to even press charges. Hell, the only person in the Neisworth case who did have charges pressed was also acquitted. How was Penn State involved in this? Do you really think a completely different administration from the one in the Sandusky situation put in a concerted effort to destroy literally all the evidence of wrong-doing at a moment's notice?

Or, do you think that literally anyone accused of a crime should be immediately assumed guilty and banned from any job anywhere for life? Because, while it is a tragedy when a child predator gets away from a lack of evidence, its also a tragedy for an innocent person to have their life ruined because we "want to be super duper safe and sure."

I cannot tell you if you are delusional or merely stupid.


I can't tell if you are in mad love with PSU in particular, or will defend any educational institution no matter how horrific their crimes and attempt to block legitimate investigations of possible crimes because "Education is the most important thing there is!".

I also can't tell if you just love PSU or that you believe that non government institutions do not have a right to free association when it comes to academia and may not end their relationships with them at their discretion.

/let me guess, you thought Arthur Andersen got exactly what it deserved
 
2012-08-14 02:10:56 PM

beta_plus:
No one really knows. But in those cases, look at who has the biggest incentive to make someone like that disappear.


Why would Penn State have an incentive to murder someone who ACCORDING TO THE ARTICLE YOU farkING POSTED he declined to press any charges?

Do you think Penn State has assassins who break into the homes of DA's and plant evidence of faking their death on a computer?
 
2012-08-14 02:11:47 PM

beta_plus: /those poor, poor accountants who had their lives ruined and had nothing to do with Enron


Lots of people have been laid off because businesses made bad decisions and went bankrupt. Hell, lots of people have been laid off because business made good decisions, were bought out, and then departments were consolidated. It's not remotely the same as having someone de-accredit the school if you're two semesters from graduation.

They should absolutely clean house but punishing the current students is vindictiveness for its own sake.
 
2012-08-14 02:12:13 PM

beta_plus: Axissillian: beta_plus:
There is also the small matter of missing DA and presumed to be dead Ray Gricar.

You have no idea how deep the rabbit hole goes. JFK was assassinated because of PSU. The Challenger was shot down because it carried PSU evidence. 9/11 was an inside job to distract the media from PSU.

yep, nothing suspicious about his disappearance. He was only just the guy in charge of investigating PSU. After he disappeared, his car was found abandoned and locked with cigarette ash in it despite him being a non-smoker, his laptop was found in the river WITH THE HARD DRIVE MISSING, and when the hard drive was later recovered it was in such bad shape that the guys who got the flight data from the Challenger couldn't read it. I'm sure it was just some tweeker desperate for cash who did it.

/but that's no reason to suspect the PSU admins


Yeah, Grahm Spanier was sending out hitmen.

And BTW, nobody here is saying that we should not go after the Admins who were involved.
 
2012-08-14 02:13:05 PM

beta_plus:

I can't tell if you are in mad love with PSU in particular, or will defend any educational institution no matter how horrific their crimes and attempt to block legitimate investigations of possible crimes because "Education is the most important thing there is!".

I also can't tell if you just love PSU or that you believe that non government institutions do not have a right to free association when it comes to academia and may not end their relationships with them at their discretion.

/let me guess, you thought Arthur Andersen got exactly what it deserved


Ok, delusional AND stupid. Thanks for clearing that up.
 
rka
2012-08-14 02:21:10 PM

you have pee hands: They should absolutely clean house but punishing the current students is vindictiveness for its own sake.


No student has been punished.

Continually crying about the students, when the students are still going about their daily lives as before is deflection at it's worse and contributes in large part to the mockery and derision of the whole PSU "culture".

Nothing that has been done up to this point has hurt any students.
 
2012-08-14 02:28:00 PM

rka: you have pee hands: They should absolutely clean house but punishing the current students is vindictiveness for its own sake.

No student has been punished.

Continually crying about the students, when the students are still going about their daily lives as before is deflection at it's worse and contributes in large part to the mockery and derision of the whole PSU "culture".

Nothing that has been done up to this point has hurt any students.


Right, but they are trying to punish students, which is why people are complaining.
 
2012-08-14 02:29:31 PM
Accreditation committees look at a lot more than the academics of an institution. My college received one for the dysfunctional behavior of its Board of Trustees. They wanted to see a plan implemented for reducing what they felt was inappropriate micromanagement. The problem was addressed and the warning was lifted. They also look for fiscal management, staffing, and governance issues. These are all things that have a great deal to do with an institution's ability to function to proper accredited standards. From the article, this is what the accreditation board is looking at with Penn State, and for good reason. But a warning is not the last step before accreditation is stripped -- there's probation, and other steps. Losing accreditation usually takes a few years. I doubt that this will happen to Penn State.
 
2012-08-14 02:29:35 PM

rka: Nothing that has been done up to this point has hurt any students.


What affect do you think removing the schools status as an accredited institution would have on the students? What purpose do you think it would serve?
 
2012-08-14 02:35:51 PM

Kyro: thatboyoverthere: Yelp I'm having a really hard time giving a fark for them.

How about the engineering student that went to Penn State, was completely disinterested in football and is now job searching with a toxic degree? How is this at all that student's fault?


They chose the school. They intentionally went to a school where football rules all, and as it turns out, farks little kids AND trades them around to alum.

Frankly, they chose poorly.

Next time pick a really good engineering school, and this won't be a problem. No one has ever accused the football coach at MIT of being a child raping sadist.
 
rka
2012-08-14 02:37:49 PM

you have pee hands: rka: Nothing that has been done up to this point has hurt any students.

What affect do you think removing the schools status as an accredited institution would have on the students? What purpose do you think it would serve?


The purpose would be to honor the guidelines of being a accredited school. If PSU is unable to maintain those guidelines, why should they maintain their status?

Axissillian: Right, but they are trying to punish students, which is why people are complaining.


No they are not trying to punish students. That's idiotic and it's why people are laughing at you. This constant persecution complex is so out of touch and out of place.

They are ensuring PSU honors the guidelines for being accredited in the first place. PSU has plenty of opportunity to ensure they continue to meet the guidelines and if they do so absolutely nothing will come of this.
 
2012-08-14 02:38:47 PM

Endive Wombat: Fine, assuming they lose their accreditation, the school is toast at that point. Students can transfer to other schools...the campus basically becomes a ghost town. What happens with the physical school itself?


Totally late to the party on this one, but...

paintball.
 
2012-08-14 02:41:37 PM

Kahabut:
Next time pick a really good engineering school, and this won't be a problem.


http://www.psu.edu/ur/rankings/

Look at this actual physical evidence of how farking dumb you are.
 
2012-08-14 02:53:48 PM

rka: They are ensuring PSU honors the guidelines for being accredited in the first place. PSU has plenty of opportunity to ensure they continue to meet the guidelines and if they do so absolutely nothing will come of this.


This is the most likely outcome.
 
2012-08-14 02:59:39 PM

you have pee hands: taliesinwi: I'm pretty sure HR managers can use something called "a calendar" and realize that said student's degree was granted before the loss of accreditation. It would suck more to be a senior at the school right now, but as others have said, there are always options.

Maybe. If you take away accreditation tens of thousands of students, maybe with 100+ credits, are screwed. If those credits lose value the students may be out upwards of $50k and several years of their lives and of course student loans follow you until you die. Scholarship football players can always almost transfer to a lower caliber football school and find someone to give them a scholarship, or keep their scholarship and not play (per the terms of the NCAA punishment) but the same isn't true of the rest of the students who would see their degree lose most of its value. There's no guarantee anyone would take them as transfers or accept the credits, and for all the in state students benefiting from in state state school tuition almost anywhere else they could go would be more expensive anyway.

As a punishment this is a ridiculous overreach and I'd be surprised as hell if it happens.


It's better than bleeding the school dry over the course of months/years and then you wake up one semester and the entire Computer Science program is cancelled for lack of money. My dad went to a mid level I admit losing accreditation is being shot in the leg instead of the head, but at least you can recover from a leg wound.

As others have said, this probably won't happen anyway.
 
2012-08-14 03:08:42 PM

spentmiles: As outlined in the Freech report, the low level employees of the athletic department were responsible for recruiting young boys by way of various football camps. The underlings, like McQueary, got the scraps while the choice pickings were sent up the line to Sandusky. Sandusky, along with those of similar rank, then tested the boys with various forms of sexual abuse. The cream of the crop -- the 1-2% out of the hundreds of applicants -- were then sent up to Paterno who basically wrote the book on sodomy. When Paterno was done with the kid, he'd have sex with him one last time while slitting his throat. The janitors of the athletic department would then discard the bodies in the incinerators. As Freech pointed out, this system went on for decades. It ran so smoothly that no one detected a thing. It wasn't until McQueary sent a boy with herpes up the chain that Sandusky got angry and threatened to fire him. McQueary, whose wife was battling ovarian cancer at the time, couldn't afford to lose his medical benefits, so he blew the proverbial whistle.

Yet even with all of those facts, the NCAA just slapped their wrists and sent them to the corner for a little while. If I was a Penn State student, I would dig up Paterno myself and defile his corpse with an ax handle. As to why Sandusky is still alive testifies to the far reach of college football. I'm sure he's promising scholarships to every inmate with a hard on or a shank. He will get his in hell.


The sad part is, people will think you're serious, because there are people in the "burn it to the ground" mob who actually think this.
 
2012-08-14 03:10:12 PM

Axissillian: beta_plus:
No one really knows. But in those cases, look at who has the biggest incentive to make someone like that disappear.


Why would Penn State have an incentive to murder someone who ACCORDING TO THE ARTICLE YOU farkING POSTED he declined to press any charges?

Do you think Penn State has assassins who break into the homes of DA's and plant evidence of faking their death on a computer?


So? What was on that hard drive? More evidence about Penn State perhaps?
 
2012-08-14 03:16:50 PM

The Muthaship: Kyro: Yeah. Everyone knows two wrongs make JUSTICE.

Punishing an institution for wrongdoing is, itself, a wrong now?


Only if the institution is guilty of wrongdoing, and not individuals.

Make a reasonable and logical argument as to why PSU should lose its accreditation as a punishment for the Sandusky scandal rather than the punishments that have already been levied by the NCAA and internally. Sandusky and anyone (staff, faculty or administration) who knowingly turned a blind eye to his behavior should be drawn and quartered, but PSU losing their academic accreditation as further punishment is ludicrous. There is no justice in that. Do all the employees of a major corporation lose their jobs when the CEO, CFO or other C-level exec is accused and convicted of a crime -- even one as heinous as Sandusky's? I think not...
 
2012-08-14 03:29:27 PM

liam76: PSU actually treated their player mor elike regular students than most big footballs schools.

Go look at their graduation rates and grades.


Does anyone believe those statistics, though? That's the problem. Once you know that a significant number of students were exempt from all academic conduct rules, their degrees become worthless. And unless you know exactly who they were, everybody else's degrees are devalued too.
 
2012-08-14 03:29:30 PM

just_intonation: The Muthaship: Kyro: Yeah. Everyone knows two wrongs make JUSTICE.

Punishing an institution for wrongdoing is, itself, a wrong now?

Only if the institution is guilty of wrongdoing, and not individuals.

Make a reasonable and logical argument as to why PSU should lose its accreditation as a punishment for the Sandusky scandal rather than the punishments that have already been levied by the NCAA and internally. Sandusky and anyone (staff, faculty or administration) who knowingly turned a blind eye to his behavior should be drawn and quartered, but PSU losing their academic accreditation as further punishment is ludicrous. There is no justice in that. Do all the employees of a major corporation lose their jobs when the CEO, CFO or other C-level exec is accused and convicted of a crime -- even one as heinous as Sandusky's? I think not...


You do realize that losing accreditation isn't punishment for what Sandusky did and the coverup the school took place in. Their accreditation is in question mainly because their is a real possibility that the civil suits that are going to result from the scandal will leave them financially unstable. Part of the accreditation commissions is to make sure that a school is financially stable and won't close its doors or have to cut classes halfway through a semester leaving students out in the cold after they paid tuition.

So losing their accreditation is a result of the coverup, and karmically punishment, but it is not a direct punishment for what they did.
 
2012-08-14 03:29:46 PM

just_intonation: Make a reasonable and logical argument as to why PSU should lose its accreditation as a punishment for the Sandusky scandal rather than the punishments that have already been levied by the NCAA and internally.


If I understand what's being done here correctly, it has nothing to do with athletics. What the NCAA did (or does in the future) is irrelevant. They are concerned with the fitness of the administration, and the fiscal soundness of PSU in light of upcoming lawsuits. PSU as an institution is responsible for the actions of the men it chose to lead it. When those men commit crimes in the name of PSU, it is fair for PSU to suffer for it. And it's important for other similar institutions to know that there are consequences for the actions of the people they choose to hand the keys to their schools to.

Lots of people have lost their jobs due to the inappropriate actions of the higher ups in their place of employment. Although, there's no direct threat of that involved here.
 
2012-08-14 03:32:00 PM

Aarontology: IAmRight: It's ridiculous to punish the individuals involved and not the whole school when it's a professor, but when its an ex-football coach, well, sh*t, it's all football's fault and football has to take all the punishment!

The econ department in conjunction with senior administrative officials didn't cover up the crimes for over a decade in order to preserve the reputation, and more importantly, the income of the department, nor did those crimes happen in the econ department with the full knowledge of the administration. That's what the difference is, and it's a pretty f*cking big difference.

One was one sick fark. The other was one sick fark being enabled and aided by other sick farks to protect a program.


Are you sure? I think that most in the econ department knew -- and looked the other way. There were numerous charges brought against him that weren't pursued as vigorously as Sandusky's. Hell, he even had his own charitable organization to serve boys... There was the fact that they knowingly sent him to Thailand to teach at a cooperative institution where he was not under the same controls and prohibitions. They did reduce him to emeritus status the year after he returned from Thailand, which may or may not have been a move by the administration to distance him from the University... And WSB is an institution in and of itself it it's own sphere.

So, I think the parallels are apt. The only difference I see is that maybe Ward doesn't actually molest boys on Penn property. I think everything else applies...
 
2012-08-14 03:38:24 PM

Kahabut: Kyro: thatboyoverthere: Yelp I'm having a really hard time giving a fark for them.

How about the engineering student that went to Penn State, was completely disinterested in football and is now job searching with a toxic degree? How is this at all that student's fault?

They chose the school. They intentionally went to a school where football rules all, and as it turns out, farks little kids AND trades them around to alum.

Frankly, they chose poorly.

Next time pick a really good engineering school, and this won't be a problem. No one has ever accused the football coach at MIT of being a child raping sadist.


Really good schools still have this problem. See u Penn. That just doesn't make headlines because there is no football involved.
 
2012-08-14 03:47:19 PM

orbister: liam76: PSU actually treated their player mor elike regular students than most big footballs schools.

Go look at their graduation rates and grades.

Does anyone believe those statistics, though? That's the problem. Once you know that a significant number of students were exempt from all academic conduct rules, their degrees become worthless. And unless you know exactly who they were, everybody else's degrees are devalued too.


Want to provide proof as to how you know a significant number of students were exempt from academic conduct rules? Or was this more of you doing a drive by comment dull of BS that you imagined happened?
 
2012-08-14 03:59:37 PM

stonicus: Pichu0102: I'm pretty sure I was wondering of the students should sue because that Penn State degrees could become toxic and not worth what they paid for anymore.
Still wondering that now.

Why would students' degrees now be toxic? No students were accused of molestation, just the faculty. That's like saying anyone from Aurora, CO should be allowed to sue because being from Aurora is toxic and they'll have a hard time getting a job. The perpetrators, in both scenarios, have been caught, and everyone knows it.


Because human beings are not rational and some recruiters could at the very least subconsciously blackball these kids.
 
2012-08-14 04:19:26 PM

Super_pope: That has nothing to do with dissuading people and everything to do with trying to extract more revenue from people after they're caught. Is a TAX STAMP a deterrent? Uh... yeah I guess. Is it meaningless in relation to going to jail for 20 years? Yep. Tax evasion? Okay I guess that's a little extra time, but you were already losing a huge chunk of your life.


OK, let me explain this a bit more clearly--basically (in states that have marijuana tax stamp laws) if they can't get someone they really want to get on, say, a felony "possession with intent to distribute"...they can get them on the tax evasion charges, which often are quite a bit worse than the penalty for just the weed. (In some cases, it can literally bump up what would just be spending a short time in the county jail to five years of prison--oh, and I should note that at least some of the states involved pretty much remove all civil rights from felons; in Kentucky, for instance, if you've ever been convicted of a felony you can never vote or get any professional licensure (not even for skilled trades like being a plumber or electrician) ever again unless you get an explicit full pardon from the governor...which almost never happens.)

Even more to the point...there are cases recorded (especially where people have sued and lost over double-jeopardy) where the state lost the case re marijuana possession being to the point above a misdemeanor--in at least one case in Alabama losing the case entirely--and still managing to win on the worse charge of tax evasion because the person didn't buy their marijuana stamp. (And yes, this has generally held up in the courts--it's fairly rare that a state marijuana tax stamp law gets overturned on grounds of double jeopardy.)

If Penn State ends up losing its accreditation (which is by no means a done deal)...basically it's going to be the rough equivalent of someone who ends up in prison (and permanently disenfranchised) because they had two joints on them and the prosecuting attorney decided (after only being able to get them for misdemeanor marijuana possession without intent to distribute) to go after them on grounds of not having a tax stamp on their joints and manages to win.

(For those who haven't read the article--the accrediting body hasn't said "yes, we're yanking their accreditation because Penn State's administration is a den of Nittany Shotacats"; they're more saying "We're looking at just how deep of a lagoon of shiat Penn State is likely to be in once the civil suits against the university start hitting the courts, and if it looks like a Nittany Shotacat or three has caused the university to be under such liability that it's liable to be sued into functional bankruptcy, we'll yank the accreditation because there's no way they can function as an accredited school under those circumstances".

If this happens, yes, this will suck for the students and non-Nittany-Shotacat staff. It's also traditionally sucked very badly for regular Joes and Joses and Iosefs in countries we've had under longterm economic and trade sanctions because we felt their leadership did Bad Things. The administration beshat the bed and unfortunately all of Happy Valley has to lie in it. :P
 
2012-08-14 05:04:53 PM
i.imgur.com

What's shocking is that JoePa is the guy who just keeps giving back to Penn State...

...and that even for all the crap Penn State is getting buried under because of his coverup and culture of special treatment for players and coaches, Penn State fanatics still defend him.

I think it is wrong to consider stripping accreditation over this, and it's also wrong to consider any degree from PSU to be tainted, but continuing to claim that JoePa ran a program steeped in integrity is laughable, at best. In some ways, it's that defense of Joe Paterno that has officials overreacting, if only to give those defenders a big ol' cup of STFU.

Seriously, these people need to think hard about what they say... back in November, all we heard was how innocent JoePa was, and how mistreated he was in all this. One Farker even explained, in great detail how Sandusky and Paterno were not, nor ever were friends or business associates (completely false), and how the great JoePa would never have ignored such an allegation is anybody had actually told him. For the defenders, the goalposts keep changing - but i suspect all of them think, deep down, this is all some horrible frame up of their almighty idol, and if they continue to make their arguments, no matter how irrational, that their version fo the "truth" will somehow become reality, even if they can't really defend his actions without getting laughed out of the forums they post in.

Let's face it... JoePa didn't have the moral fortitude or ethical grounding to see that justice was served in a case of child rape, so that his program would not be tainted by the allegations - REALLY THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A MINUTE - but you'd have us believe that he would have the integrity to drop a player for academic issues or discipline a starting player for violating the law by suspending him for a big game? Part of JoePa's "legacy" was dependent on how he "nurtured" student players into men... but do you defenders honestly expect ANYBODY ELSE to think that he'd never fake that image of "integrity" when it came to players, even if he was willing to cover up and abet further his pal and business partner Sandusky anally raping little boys?

Ever heard of the term "In for a penny, in for a pound?"

In this case, it's "In for a pound, in for a penny", because the idea that he would not cover up academic and discipline issues to make his program look clean, while covering up and abetting child rape is like saying Jeffery Dahmer wouldn't dream of spitting chewing gum on the sidewalk, in defiance of a sign noting the city ordinance against it, even as he was escorting his next victim back to his apartment.

It's also clear the program at Penn State was held in such reverence by the fanatics, that many of the people who knew things were going on would (and will) never reveal how dirty the program was. Is it any wonder the program needed to be sanctioned?

As I have said since November, it is going to get very uncomfortable for fans of Penn State before the dust settles. They are under the microscope, and it's made worse by the arrogant, misguided attitude of some BoT members and students to yell "bring it on" (while those with more knowledge are trying to nudge them and say , "shut up and take what we've been given and hope it blows over before they find out how deep the rot is")
 
2012-08-14 05:06:01 PM
Hey Penn State, why couldn't you get caught raping boys 5 years ago, so the Big Ten could have kicked you out before we invited Nebraska, and we'd actually have 10 farking schools in the conference?
 
2012-08-14 06:40:31 PM
Before the scandal broke, if you told people you had a degree from Penn State, they'd think "oh, that school where they worship football"

Now, if you tell people that, they think, "oh, that school where they used to worship football."

Sorry guys, I can't find it in me to feel bad for you.
 
2012-08-14 08:18:22 PM
liam76:

Want to provide proof as to how you know a significant number of students were exempt from academic conduct rules?

static7.businessinsider.com
 
2012-08-14 08:31:26 PM

IAmRight: He was also working on a case involving the mob at the time.


Citation?
/No chevys
 
2012-08-14 08:55:14 PM

IAmRight: Aarontology: I'm all for killing their football program, but this is farking insane.

Oh, right, because it's all football's fault that the president gave the guy powers. And it's so unique a situation and every other school would get killed if they enabled a pedophile to operate for years within their midst.

We'll ignore the econ professor who was linked to earlier at UPenn who was known as a child rapist for years and no one knows about. It's because the econ program was too strong! Damn economics-loving America!

It's ridiculous to punish the individuals involved and not the whole school when it's a professor, but when its an ex-football coach, well, sh*t, it's all football's fault and football has to take all the punishment!


Were the the Penn President and the Board of Trustees actively engaged in a 14 year coverup of this while it continued to occur, meathead?
 
2012-08-14 09:23:29 PM
As a Buckeye, I was taunted endlessly about how Maurice Clarett's false police report was going to tarnish my degree.

Though I hesitate to dance on the graves of Penn state, I still talk to a lot of people here in PA who genuinely feel that Sandusky is a creep but beyond that, nobody did anything wrong and this is some huge set-up and anyone who testifies about it is some kind of snitch.
 
2012-08-14 09:39:40 PM
"It is critical to emphasize that Middle States does not issue a warning unless the commission believes that an institution has the capacity to make appropriate improvements within a reasonable period and then sustain itself to stay in compliance," Bowen said in the statement. "This certainly is true for Penn State. We're confident that our monitoring report and the site visit will confirm this to the commission."

Basically, they are saying, "show us how you will ensure that this will never happen again". And they seem to be confident that Penn State will answer the mail adequately.
 
2012-08-14 09:45:35 PM

CapnBlues: Unless... I can't remember, are you one of the users here that has just always hated PSU and is using this as your opportunity to hurt the whole school? I've been gone from fark for a few months, so i don't remember. Your name is familiar to me. In fact, this conversation is reminding me why I've been gone from fark for a few months. Forget it, have a good one, man. All the best to you.


Yes that is obviously it. Im part of some vast underground cionspiracy that has always hated PSU for no reason whatsoever. We are hell bent on hurting PSU and nobody knows why.

I bet they teach about this vast conspiracy in PSU history courses dont they?
 
2012-08-15 04:35:49 AM

hornblowerfan: This is ridiculously stupid and unwarranted. Do not penalize inmocent students for what the football staff has done. Even now, there are 4 young-ish people in my department at work who are Penn State graduates and who practically wear black ribbons to mourn the loss of their careers.


oh, NOW its dont penalize innocent students for what the football staff has done.... before it was penalize the innocent football players!

/ I agree with you on both accounts, but this is truly hypocritical.
 
2012-08-15 07:39:00 AM

Something_Creative: My problem with this is that the punishment goes back to the students instead of the school itself, or more importantly, the administration. The fine levied against Penn St.? They said it reduced the amount of scholarships available for new and continuing students. And now, removing accreditation once again only hurts the students. I think all or almost all of the upper echelon of administration should be fired or maybe even personally fined if possible. Let the president of the school have to personally pay for the penalty. I know that my alma mater was smaller than Penn State, and the Chancellor made more money than the President of the United States--I think the leader of Penn State could afford it.


The people who argue this....you understand it's like saying, "Don't send that sexual predator to prison, it'll only hurt his family," don't you? You do understand there are consequences for misdeeds, and yes, often there is collateral damage to the innocent? But how can that be helped? They are additional victims of the original perpetrators, they are not being victimized anew by the forces of justice. Should people be spared prison time because their families will be harmed by their absence?

The crimes committed here were - and I know this is a big word, so just try to understand - institutional, meaning they were aided and abetted all the way up the ladder to the very president of the university. Students will be harmed by the subsequent punishment? Ok, true...but how do you help that and still serve the interest of justice? Are you saying the school should suffer no penalties because innocents will then suffer the result of consequences levied against the school for its crimes? Did you follow that argument to its logical conclusion before stating it?
 
2012-08-15 08:41:44 AM

karmachameleon: The people who argue this....you understand it's like saying, "Don't send that sexual predator to prison, it'll only hurt his family," don't you?


No it is like saying don't evict the family because the dad got tossed in jail for being a pervert.

Everybody is fine with punishing the predators.


karmachameleon: The crimes committed here were - and I know this is a big word, so just try to understand - institutional, meaning they were aided and abetted all the way up the ladder to the very president of the university.


Allt he way up the ladder implies that people on the bottom rung of the ladder knew, they didn't. This was covered up by a few people and everybody is all abotu doing everything we can to punish them, but punishingt he school after they have lost all ties helps nobody.

Put it this way, do you think Grahm SPanier, Chultz, Sandusky, the Paterno Family Estate are more concerend about lawsuits and jail or PSU's reputation?



veedeevadeevoodee: liam76:

Want to provide proof as to how you know a significant number of students were exempt from academic conduct rules?

Picture that has absolutely no proof


That is what I figured.

And before you try to use it, your earlier article talked about discipline, not academic problems. Still waiting to hear you explain how 7 issues a year in an athletic collegiate organization numbering over 100 shows a serious problem.
 
2012-08-15 08:53:56 AM

Great Porn Dragon: Super_pope: That has nothing to do with dissuading people and everything to do with trying to extract more revenue from people after they're caught. Is a TAX STAMP a deterrent? Uh... yeah I guess. Is it meaningless in relation to going to jail for 20 years? Yep. Tax evasion? Okay I guess that's a little extra time, but you were already losing a huge chunk of your life.

OK, let me explain this a bit more clearly--basically (in states that have marijuana tax stamp laws) if they can't get someone they really want to get on, say, a felony "possession with intent to distribute"...they can get them on the tax evasion charges, which often are quite a bit worse than the penalty for just the weed. (In some cases, it can literally bump up what would just be spending a short time in the county jail to five years of prison--oh, and I should note that at least some of the states involved pretty much remove all civil rights from felons; in Kentucky, for instance, if you've ever been convicted of a felony you can never vote or get any professional licensure (not even for skilled trades like being a plumber or electrician) ever again unless you get an explicit full pardon from the governor...which almost never happens.)

Even more to the point...there are cases recorded (especially where people have sued and lost over double-jeopardy) where the state lost the case re marijuana possession being to the point above a misdemeanor--in at least one case in Alabama losing the case entirely--and still managing to win on the worse charge of tax evasion because the person didn't buy their marijuana stamp. (And yes, this has generally held up in the courts--it's fairly rare that a state marijuana tax stamp law gets overturned on grounds of double jeopardy.)

If Penn State ends up losing its accreditation (which is by no means a done deal)...basically it's going to be the rough equivalent of someone who ends up in prison (and permanently disenfranchised) because they had two joints on them ...


This is all well and good, but my point is still that additional punishment for the school is meaningless as a deterrent when you have people already committing criminal activities. Someone who's going to make the decision to cover up child-rape for their own benefit at risk of their own personal freedom is not going to reconsider because the football team could lose scholarships, or the school might lose its accreditation. Also in your example the person who (probably) had the weed is being busted. Here its more like someone got caught farking boys in an apartment and the owner of the building covered it up, so all his neighbors lose their housing.

If they could put Jerry to death for tax evasion on his boy-farking stamp that would be something entirely different (and a very funny looking stamp I imagine).
 
2012-08-15 09:27:35 AM

liam76: No it is like saying don't evict the family because the dad got tossed in jail for being a pervert.


But if the family can't pay rent, for whatever reason, they get evicted.

If Penn cannot show they have a plan to maintain solvency during the shiatstorm about to land on them, they risk accreditation. Done and done.
 
2012-08-15 10:30:55 AM

ko_kyi: liam76: No it is like saying don't evict the family because the dad got tossed in jail for being a pervert.

But if the family can't pay rent, for whatever reason, they get evicted.


True, but don't have the HOA levying additional fines (NCAA), you don't have people around the country saying how farked up the family is and how they deserve to be kicked out (as you see in this thread).


ko_kyi: If Penn cannot show they have a plan to maintain solvency during the shiatstorm about to land on them, they risk accreditation. Done and done


Penn gets around 800 million a year outside of athletics. They can cover this.

This is nothing more than rattling their cage because it makes the group look like they are doing thier job to peopel who don't grasp the situation.
 
2012-08-15 10:32:20 AM

liam76: ko_kyi: If Penn cannot show they have a plan to maintain solvency during the shiatstorm about to land on them, they risk accreditation. Done and done


Ignore the bold, I was going to put in "losing" but it makes sense as is, still early for me.
 
2012-08-15 10:55:24 PM
im sorry this is too far, you dont fark the educational value of every person at a school over something utterly unrelated to academics.
 
2012-08-16 09:28:11 AM

Daeva: im sorry this is too far, you dont fark the educational value of every person at a school over something utterly unrelated to academics.


There are no real academics at PSU, just a JoePa cult. I'd sooner hire someone from Texas.
 
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