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(BBC-US)   Bitcoin users sue website for losing their money. That's the joke   (bbc.com) divider line 79
    More: Obvious, work outs  
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9075 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Aug 2012 at 7:49 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-14 08:48:02 PM  

foxyshadis: Hacker_X: foxyshadis:

None of that has anything to do with anonymity. The anonymity features of Bitcoin are not as robust as Tor's, and when the NSA is slurping up the entire internet into storage so they can continually re-run more advanced traffic analysis on it as hardware gets better, it's almost impossible to make truly anonymous transactions online. Patterns always emerge, encryption keys get cracked, with enough effort.

Wait, you don't actually believe the NSA is recording a copy of all internet traffic do you? Do you have any concept of just how much raw data that is every single second? There isn't a data center on the planet with enough hard drive and tapes to store even one days worth of internet traffic.

Not everything, certainly not media files, mostly just metadata - every connection, when, where, how much - with samplings that traffic analysis highlight as interesting, worth future study, and a bit of entirely random stuff for testing purposes. They might throw out anything unencrypted immediately after verifying that it's uninteresting and stop recording connections surrounding it, if they're pressed for data.

I have no doubt that they have tens or hundreds of terabytes dedicated to storing connection information at each peering point. The hardware to do all of that a hundred times over would cost much less than a single F-22.


It isn't just a matter of hardware costs, it is a matter of the physical space and electrical + data connections for all the hardware. Even throwing out all unencrypted communications you are still talking colossal amounts of data. Just take encrypted torrents as an example. Each block of data is going to require a minimum of one inbound connection and one outbound connection. That means on relatively typical torrents you can be talking 20,000 connections to log. From one file transfer and only one end of the connection. And that is assuming relative large block sizes of a meg or half meg instead of something like 32KB blocks. Now picture billions of those transfers occurring every hour. Now throw in millions upon millions of secured connection for games they would want to try to monitor because of in game chat, emails, SSL websites, etc...

The amount of data you are talking about essential amounts to all the data warehoused by Google. Except you would need that much storage space for every single days worth of data. Even with just logging all the connections it just isn't possible with current data storage and transmission capacities. And by the time it would be it again wouldn't be enough because everybody out there would have faster connections and even more personal storage to fling stuff around at each other.

The NSA has stuff in place to theoretically monitor everything at once but the reality is they simply can't even if they were willing to wade through mountains of useless data.
 
2012-08-14 09:33:18 PM  
Bitcoins? More like biatchcoins!
 
2012-08-15 01:57:30 AM  
CosbyCoin is the new shiat.
 
2012-08-15 02:54:32 AM  
I've been waiting for this day for a long time. Fark has a story on Bitcoin. It's finally made it!

Seriously though, Bitcoin is a fascinating and very strong system for sending money between people and businesses without having to trust any third-parties. Social media, email, and cloud-services all required a sort-of-rethinking for the Internet to reach their current potential. Think of Bitcoin as that done for the financial system.

/totally kidding
//no I'm not
 
2012-08-15 10:48:40 AM  

weex: I've been waiting for this day for a long time. Fark has a story on Bitcoin. It's finally made it!

Seriously though, Bitcoin is a fascinating and very strong system for sending money between people and businesses without having to trust any third-parties. Social media, email, and cloud-services all required a sort-of-rethinking for the Internet to reach their current potential. Think of Bitcoin as that done for the financial system.

/totally kidding
//no I'm not


It just needs more users.

I wouldn't mind doing some small projects for bit coins. Building a pure virtual business has an appeal to it. More for learning than profit. That kind of learning will be critical for the success for anyone who wants to excel in the new economy.

Free, open trade is the future. People will try to stop it, governments may imprison people and kill over it, it may be delayed by some sort of dark ages, but it's coming. It's the future -- "true progress" not this bull shiat progress (that's really a regress) that the left is selling.
 
2012-08-15 10:52:40 AM  

uber humper: It just needs more users.


It needs a legitimate exchange to real money.

I'm not going to John Wayne Gacy's basement just to exchange my bitcoins for cash. you will not find anyone but private citizens exchanging them. No banks, no businesses.

Advertising toy money to real money conversion would be a great tactic for a serial killer, because who's going to miss someone who uses bitcoins anyways?
 
2012-08-15 10:56:19 AM  
Can I buy a game on Steam with bitcoins? Nope.

Can I buy gasoline with bitcoins? Nope.

Can I buy music from iTunes with bitcoins? Nope.

Products from amazon.com? Nope.

Newegg? Nope.

Can I buy food with bitcoins? Nope.

Water? Nope.

Shelter? Nope.

Well at least I can buy the power to run my bitcoin mining rig with bitcoins right? LOL. Nope.

Just what legitimate companies ACCEPT bitcoins?

none.
 
2012-08-15 11:10:03 AM  

fluffy2097: It needs a legitimate exchange to real money.

:

in the mean time exchange them for dollars instead of buying goods/services with the bitcoins. I wouldn't trust the exchanges with huge amounts. But the more they grow the less likely they would scam you out of your chump change. Take Mt. Gox for instance. Do you think they would ruin their reputation over your $500?, $1,000?, $10,000?, $100,000?. I wouldn't trust them to exchange $100k but I would make ten $10k exchanges with them.

Anyways, if I did have a micro business (not mining, I'd do small coding projects) that was paid it bit coins-- I would horde them. Again, it's more of an intellectual exercise at this point.
 
2012-08-15 11:43:06 AM  

uber humper: fluffy2097: It needs a legitimate exchange to real money.:

in the mean time exchange them for dollars instead of buying goods/services with the bitcoins. I wouldn't trust the exchanges with huge amounts. But the more they grow the less likely they would scam you out of your chump change. Take Mt. Gox for instance. Do you think they would ruin their reputation over your $500?, $1,000?, $10,000?, $100,000?. I wouldn't trust them to exchange $100k but I would make ten $10k exchanges with them.

Anyways, if I did have a micro business (not mining, I'd do small coding projects) that was paid it bit coins-- I would horde them. Again, it's more of an intellectual exercise at this point.


The exchanges are random people setting up random websites with no qualifications.

Or do you remember the exchange that was put up by a 15 year old that got robbed, and still hasn't paid back the money owed to it's customers?

I deal in currency that FDIC accredited banks will deal in. Until bitcoin can do that, it's for buying child pornography, drugs, and shiat from regretsy.
 
2012-08-15 12:02:19 PM  

fluffy2097: Or do you remember the exchange that was put up by a 15 year old that got robbed, and still hasn't paid back the money owed to it's customers?

I deal in currency that FDIC accredited banks will deal in. Until bitcoin can do that, it's for buying child pornography, drugs, and shiat from regretsy.




The Mt. Gox, I referenced before, does 80--90% of the bit coin - dollar exchange work. I'd use them.

If I were you I wouldn't, either. Your comfort zone and intellect are too small (you should of assumed to go to the largest exchange).
 
2012-08-15 01:13:31 PM  

fluffy2097: uber humper: fluffy2097: It needs a legitimate exchange to real money.:

in the mean time exchange them for dollars instead of buying goods/services with the bitcoins. I wouldn't trust the exchanges with huge amounts. But the more they grow the less likely they would scam you out of your chump change. Take Mt. Gox for instance. Do you think they would ruin their reputation over your $500?, $1,000?, $10,000?, $100,000?. I wouldn't trust them to exchange $100k but I would make ten $10k exchanges with them.

Anyways, if I did have a micro business (not mining, I'd do small coding projects) that was paid it bit coins-- I would horde them. Again, it's more of an intellectual exercise at this point.

The exchanges are random people setting up random websites with no qualifications.

Or do you remember the exchange that was put up by a 15 year old that got robbed, and still hasn't paid back the money owed to it's customers?

I deal in currency that FDIC accredited banks will deal in. Until bitcoin can do that, it's for buying child pornography, drugs, and shiat from regretsy.


It's like people don't get that a system designed to be anonymous on as many levels as possible is going to attract inherently untrustworthy or incompetent people. The whole bitcoin/miner concept seems designed to game other people as much as possible. "Yeah I hate the fiat currency banking system so let's make a currency that's even more fiat, and has less oversight than the system I'm talking mad shiat about! Instead of taxing people and applying that to the common good, let's allow people to charge whatever fees they want and pocket all of that!" Short sighted hypocrites is the most charitable way I can describe people who think this is a viable solution in the present day.
 
2012-08-15 01:44:02 PM  
The roadmap to monetary freedom
 
2012-08-15 02:03:43 PM  
Has anyone looked at the bitcoin price chart lately?
bitcoincharts.com
 
2012-08-15 02:14:40 PM  

cheJ4tei: Has anyone looked at the bitcoin price chart lately?
bitcoincharts.com


I don't know about the URL you posted. Today, Mt. Gox is trading about $12.50.
 
2012-08-15 02:26:01 PM  

Crotchrocket Slim: It's like people don't get that a system designed to be anonymous on as many levels as possible is going to attract inherently untrustworthy or incompetent people. The whole bitcoin/miner concept seems designed to game other people as much as possible. "Yeah I hate the fiat currency banking system so let's make a currency that's even more fiat, and has less oversight than the system I'm talking mad shiat about! Instead of taxing people and applying that to the common good, let's allow people to charge whatever fees they want and pocket all of that!" Short sighted hypocrites is the most charitable way I can describe people who think this is a viable solution in the present day.


I wouldn't say that I hate the current monetary system. I LOVE it. i also have no problem with paying taxes. I believe it's a bargain, for what I get. Alternatives are always welcome. To not entertain new technologies, by definition, is narrow minded. Not to have alternatives is dangerous.

What you think about the Euro?
Was that creation, short-sighted or long ? Should they have not done it or was it a good idea to adopt that alternative?
 
2012-08-15 02:43:32 PM  
check out these links,

blog.zorinaq.com/?e=66

c4ss.org/content/11718
 
2012-08-15 02:51:19 PM  

cheJ4tei: check out these links,

blog.zorinaq.com/?e=66

c4ss.org/content/11718


You're new here. If you just post links it looks like spam.
 
2012-08-15 02:51:44 PM  

uber humper: Crotchrocket Slim: It's like people don't get that a system designed to be anonymous on as many levels as possible is going to attract inherently untrustworthy or incompetent people. The whole bitcoin/miner concept seems designed to game other people as much as possible. "Yeah I hate the fiat currency banking system so let's make a currency that's even more fiat, and has less oversight than the system I'm talking mad shiat about! Instead of taxing people and applying that to the common good, let's allow people to charge whatever fees they want and pocket all of that!" Short sighted hypocrites is the most charitable way I can describe people who think this is a viable solution in the present day.

I wouldn't say that I hate the current monetary system. I LOVE it. i also have no problem with paying taxes. I believe it's a bargain, for what I get. Alternatives are always welcome. To not entertain new technologies, by definition, is narrow minded. Not to have alternatives is dangerous.

What you think about the Euro?
Was that creation, short-sighted or long ? Should they have not done it or was it a good idea to adopt that alternative?


I mean I hear you, but crappy alternatives are not viable alternatives.

The issue with the Euro is with the political structure of the EU; honestly while the idea of one universal currency is a cool one, practically speaking if not all "subject" parties trust the issuing body of the currency or feel they have an equal influence over policy etc. we have many of the same issues I have with "privately minted" currencies. Don't forget that at its core money is a social agreement between people (really if I can't use a dollar to buy food or shelter from others etc. why do I want to be paid in dollars?) and trust and at least perceived fairness is absolutely vital for a system like this to work. I don't see how a body can have this level of influence and simultaneously be influenced by a population without being a government or effectively becoming a government over time.

My issue with Bitcoins is that anyone can run a bitcoin miner, and I have no reliable way of performing due diligence. The lack of oversight is what gets me. I mean I don't necessarily trust governments etc. but at least democratically structured ones are meant to be fiercely monitored by their constituency (so I am used to talking about Bitcoins with anarchist types who just like things that take power out of government despite unscrupulous individuals taking advantage of the weak historically speaking). I know nothing about this Goz fellow or if he has some sort of long term game plan I might object to. Governments change parties etc. all the time so they only get as evil and corrupt as the people allow.
 
2012-08-15 03:08:48 PM  
Crotchrocket Slim:


Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, I don't have time for an in-depth response -- gotta get back to generating my greenbacks:)

The short answer, bitcoin is in an Alpha stage (it's not ready for a production environment and not meant for the non-savvy but available for the curious). It may or may not make it. But the cat is out of the bag, people (crooks as well as good men) will always search for freedom. If this doesn't catch on, a fork of something similar will in the future.

Governments are inherently bad at management, as it gets larger the expenses of government grows exponentially -- bureaucracies aren't scalable.

And no, a world currency is a terrible idea. If that fails, everyone is farked without options. No where to go.

If you post again, I'll read it but not respond. I'll give you the last word. I have to focus on work.

I'll catch you in another thread.
 
2012-08-15 04:19:02 PM  

fluffy2097: Can I buy a game on Steam with bitcoins? Nope.

Can I buy gasoline with bitcoins? Nope.

Can I buy music from iTunes with bitcoins? Nope.

Products from amazon.com? Nope.

Newegg? Nope.

Can I buy food with bitcoins? Nope.

Water? Nope.

Shelter? Nope.

Well at least I can buy the power to run my bitcoin mining rig with bitcoins right? LOL. Nope.

Just what legitimate companies ACCEPT bitcoins?

none.


But if you leave out that one specific keyword, you can get all sorts of stuff with them.

//legitimate. I don't think it applies here. Bitcoins get me the mind altering substances I can't otherwise find in this small town that I live in, and I will be sad if they ever go away.
 
2012-08-15 08:02:04 PM  
Nothing says "stability" like a digital currency that fluctuates $4 USD in 24 hours.
 
2012-08-15 10:02:41 PM  

IronJelly: //legitimate. I don't think it applies here. Bitcoins get me the mind altering substances I can't otherwise find in this small town that I live in, and I will be sad if they ever go away.


But officer! I bought it with bitcoins!

Yeah.... May as well use paypal bro.
 
2012-08-16 02:34:45 AM  
Fjordo over on reddit was nice enough to put together some links for fluffy2097:

Don't have a fark account, so I guess I'll just respond here.

Can I buy a game on Steam with bitcoins? Nope.

Yes http://www.bitmit.net/en/q/?q=steam
e.g. http://www.bitmit.net/en/trade/i/4892-batman-arkham-city-steam-gift/d e scription


Can I buy music from iTunes with bitcoins? Nope.

Yes, usually with a discount. http://www.bitmit.net/en/q/?q=iTunes
e.g, http://www.bitmit.net/en/trade/i/4341-20-australian-itunes-gift-card/ d escription


Products from amazon.com? Nope.

Yes, often at a discount. http://www.bitmit.net/en/q/?q=amazon
e.g http://www.bitmit.net/en/trade/i/4813-30-in-amazon-payments/descripti o n


Newegg? Nope.

Yes, often at a discount. http://www.bitmit.net/en/trade/i/4708-newegg-gift-card-50-100-250-usd / description

Can I buy food with bitcoins? Nope.

Are you kidding me? This was available in 2011.
http://btcpantry.com/
http://bitbrew.net/
http://www.bitmit.net/en/shop/c/14-food-and-drinks/1-food
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=14828.0


Shelter? Nope.

Sure.
http://www.bitmit.net/en/trade/i/3852-house-of-stone-and-6000m2/desc ri ption
https://ogrr.com/viewtopic.php?f=268&p=13243#p13243


Can I buy gasoline with bitcoins? Nope.

Water? Nope.

Well at least I can buy the power to run my bitcoin mining rig with bitcoins right?


Ok you got me there. There doesn't seem to be any gas cards for sale, nor pay for utilities yet. I'm not sure how that invalidates bitcoin.

** via ferritinjapan: Actually spendbitcoins.com does allow you to pay your utilities in Australia with Bitcoin.


Just what legitimate companies ACCEPT bitcoins?

Actually, a pretty large amount: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade
 
2012-08-16 07:35:25 AM  
Welp, let me just convert the currency of any other nation backed by a stable government into spergerrands or blow out my video card running it 24/7 to mine 1/10 of a spergerrand so that I can then post in an auction to buy something that was bought with the currency of any other nation backed by a stable government.
 
2012-08-16 09:17:03 AM  

phraust: bitmit advertisment


So, is there any way you can buy something with bitcoins not through a non accredited, completely random, faith based, 3rd party?

Because a knockoff e-bay selling gift cards doesn't meet any of my requirements.
 
2012-08-16 12:07:35 PM  
Someone is doing magic tricks on Reddit- register at a bitcoin exchange, tell him your email address and he'll tell you your password.

/thanks somethingawful 

"However, as the OP demonstrated, the passwords are actually stored as MD5 (try it yourself). These people are launching one site after another with the same vulnerabilities and they aren't even taking note of the suggestions, don't display any kind of learning from their mistakes and even seem to lie about things to be able to not learn. It's like a conspiracy trying to generate quantitative proof that Bitcoin businesses are bound to be incompetent."
 
2012-08-16 06:59:34 PM  

fluffy2097: phraust: bitmit advertisment


Ad hominem, check.

So, is there any way you can buy something with bitcoins not through a non accredited, completely random, faith based, 3rd party?

Strawman, check.

Because a knockoff e-bay selling gift cards doesn't meet any of my requirements.

You hadn't specified any "requirements", you were just asking what you could and couldn't pay for using Bitcoin. BitMit has been around for long enough that they've earned a bit of trust around the community, and like eBay, is a middle-party to exchange goods.

Whenever I need to pay for something that doesn't accept Bitcoin, I just switch them to USD and pay with my debit card (btcpak.com). It takes about 10 minutes, and covers things from your list like water, gas, and utilities. OKPay.com has just started a BTC straight to DebitCard service as well, which would make it even easier to move money in and out of USD.

It's a brand-new market, one that has grown substantially over the course of the last two years. The market for illegal drugs, issues with trust, and hacking of less-than-secure web-sites are all human-related issues; they really don't speak about the strength and potential of Bitcoin.

Anyhow, if you don't want to use it, don't. It's new and that's scary. But simply dismissing it without really taking a look is a shortcoming on your part, not anyone else's.
 
2012-08-17 08:57:46 AM  

phraust: Anyhow, if you don't want to use it, don't. It's new and that's scary. But simply dismissing it without really taking a look is a shortcoming on your part, not anyone else's.


Simply assuming I haven't looked into it is just a strawman on your part.

You go have fun spending more money mining bitcoins then they're worth.
 
2012-08-17 04:03:46 PM  
Welp, one of bitcoins' largest ponzi schemes is shuttering its doors. It's known to have multiple other ponzis forked off of it. Sure is a stable currency y'all got here. Happy Friday.
s12.postimage.org 

You can see at 6:00 pm where the Bitcoin Savings and Loan closing was announced.

Anyone out there- follow this thread on SomethingAwful if you want a laugh.
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3486823&user i d=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1
 
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