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(Deadspin)   "And that was the worst base running in the history of the game" (w/only available grainy video, since all other copies have apparently been burned)   (deadspin.com) divider line 58
    More: Fail, baserunning, baseball  
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3498 clicks; posted to Sports » on 14 Aug 2012 at 9:43 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-14 09:51:33 AM
That looked like tee ball.
 
2012-08-14 09:54:11 AM
Interesting.. did he really have to retouch 2nd when he finally decided to run? He had already touched it twice and it's not like he touched 1st.

I'd like to see the rule on that. (but don't want to look for it)
 
2012-08-14 09:54:33 AM
I can only assume it's the Reds. They are the worst base running team in the game.
 
2012-08-14 09:57:26 AM
I'm just glad is wasn't the Astros for once.
 
2012-08-14 10:07:21 AM
I had the joy of watching this one live. Truly awful.

www.justinbopp.com
 
2012-08-14 10:10:55 AM

MugzyBrown: Interesting.. did he really have to retouch 2nd when he finally decided to run? He had already touched it twice and it's not like he touched 1st.

I'd like to see the rule on that. (but don't want to look for it)


Basically, no.

He started running when the ball was in the air and touched second base on the way past. Thinking it was caught (it wasn't) he thought he had to go back and tag up all the way back at first. Realizing it wasn't caught (and apparently, he was the last person in the ballpark to know this), he set off for third. Then, in an act of complete confusion, he went back and touched 2nd again, even though there was no need to do so.

Actually, that play reminded me of how I played ball as an eight year old: having no clue how the game was supposed to be played, I would just keep running until somebody tagged me and told me I was out.
 
2012-08-14 10:12:26 AM

czetie: Then, in an act of complete confusion, he went back and touched 2nd again, even though there was no need to do so.


That's the part I was questioning, and I couldn't think of a reason to touch 2nd again other than it looked weird for him to run to third directly from between 1st & 2nd.
 
2012-08-14 10:14:08 AM

funk_soul_bubby: I had the joy of watching this one live. Truly awful.

[www.justinbopp.com image 570x712]


That would be a really great graphic, except for the ball went over the rightfielder's glove, not the centerfielder's.
 
2012-08-14 10:17:27 AM

studleystudstutterson: funk_soul_bubby: I had the joy of watching this one live. Truly awful.

[www.justinbopp.com image 570x712]

That would be a really great graphic, except for the ball went over the rightfielder's glove, not the centerfielder's.


And unless I missed something he only reached 3rd once not twice.
 
2012-08-14 10:21:11 AM

MugzyBrown: studleystudstutterson: funk_soul_bubby: I had the joy of watching this one live. Truly awful.

[www.justinbopp.com image 570x712]

That would be a really great graphic, except for the ball went over the rightfielder's glove, not the centerfielder's.

And unless I missed something he only reached 3rd once not twice.


Hey, I didn't make it. It's been on Fark before. Don't kill the messenger!
 
2012-08-14 10:23:01 AM

MugzyBrown: studleystudstutterson: funk_soul_bubby: I had the joy of watching this one live. Truly awful.

[www.justinbopp.com image 570x712]

That would be a really great graphic, except for the ball went over the rightfielder's glove, not the centerfielder's.

And unless I missed something he only reached 3rd once not twice.


The second line going to third base is the batter.
 
2012-08-14 10:23:38 AM

MugzyBrown: Interesting.. did he really have to retouch 2nd when he finally decided to run? He had already touched it twice and it's not like he touched 1st.

I'd like to see the rule on that. (but don't want to look for it)


I would argue that since he touched and went passed 2nd base towards first, that yes, he did have to retouch. Just like if the ball is caught, if the runner has rounded the next base, he has to touch the base before returning to his original base. Otherwise even though a runner from first had passed second, since second base was the last base tagged he would be able to run directly from just passed second to first base.
 
2012-08-14 10:26:02 AM
And I had forgotten but Rivera was actually pinch running for Galarraga there.

Ruben Rivera pinch runs for Andres Galarraga (PH) batting 9th
b9 2-2 1 1-- 2,(1-0) O SFG M. Grissom M. Koplove -1% 63% Reached on E9 (Fly Ball); Rivera out at Hm/RF-3B-SS-C/Adv on E4 (throw to 3B); Grissom to 3B/Adv on throw to Hm

Box Score
 
2012-08-14 10:31:46 AM
 
2012-08-14 10:45:46 AM
 
2012-08-14 10:47:47 AM
The second line going to third base is the batter.

Ahh didn't notice the batter reached 3rd.
 
2012-08-14 10:58:59 AM

JPINFV: MugzyBrown: Interesting.. did he really have to retouch 2nd when he finally decided to run? He had already touched it twice and it's not like he touched 1st.

I'd like to see the rule on that. (but don't want to look for it)

I would argue that since he touched and went passed 2nd base towards first, that yes, he did have to retouch. Just like if the ball is caught, if the runner has rounded the next base, he has to touch the base before returning to his original base. Otherwise even though a runner from first had passed second, since second base was the last base tagged he would be able to run directly from just passed second to first base.


The retouching only applies if the ball was caught; it wasn't. So be rightfully had reached 2nd and was free to advance to third, assuming he stayed in his baseline.
 
2012-08-14 11:20:13 AM

oldweevil: You have to touch first base.


Not if you really know how to fight.
 
2012-08-14 11:27:56 AM

rufus-t-firefly: I've seen worse.


crying right now.....coworkers think im insane.
 
2012-08-14 11:48:04 AM

bacongood: assuming he stayed in his baseline.


If he's on the first base side of 2nd, the baseline runs through 2nd. You don't get to cut across just because you've touched 2nd at some point.
 
2012-08-14 11:48:59 AM
Bases must be touched in order, regardless if the runner is advancing or retreating. I don't think the Official Baseball Rules intended to cover this crazy scenario. But Rivera had already touched second and was advancing to 3rd when he, mistakenly, believed the ball to have been caught. So he retreated back to first, retouching the bag. Then he realizes that the ball was not caught so he takes off for third, but fails to touch second again. So he retreats to the bag, touches it for the third time and advances toward third base.

Short version: runners cannot "cut the corner" no matter which direction they are running or how many times they have already contacted the bag.

For example, had Rivera, on his initial retreat from 2nd to 1st, realized that he should go to 3rd and just cut straight across the infield without coming anywhere near the second base bag, the defence would appeal and he would be called out for missing second base.

And in that case Grissom might also be called out for passing him.
 
2012-08-14 11:49:48 AM

czetie: MugzyBrown: Interesting.. did he really have to retouch 2nd when he finally decided to run? He had already touched it twice and it's not like he touched 1st.

I'd like to see the rule on that. (but don't want to look for it)

Basically, no.

He started running when the ball was in the air and touched second base on the way past. Thinking it was caught (it wasn't) he thought he had to go back and tag up all the way back at first. Realizing it wasn't caught (and apparently, he was the last person in the ballpark to know this), he set off for third. Then, in an act of complete confusion, he went back and touched 2nd again, even though there was no need to do so.

Actually, that play reminded me of how I played ball as an eight year old: having no clue how the game was supposed to be played, I would just keep running until somebody tagged me and told me I was out.


Anytime you pass a base you must touch that base.

Also the worst base running blunder is fat ass Lonnie Smith looking for the ball instead of watching his 3rd base coach waving him home. In the world series. And costing them the series.

/f*ck Lonnie Smith
 
2012-08-14 11:51:21 AM
ThatGregGuy said it in fewer words while I was typing.
 
2012-08-14 12:03:30 PM

rufus-t-firefly: I've seen worse.


A guy here at work told us a story the other day. His son (5-6 I believe) was on 1st base. The ball is hit, and he takes off running. The ball goes between 1st and 2nd. He sees the ground ball, stops running and goes after the ball, picks it up, and makes a great throw to 2nd base to get himself out.

Wish there was a video of it.
 
2012-08-14 12:54:03 PM

bart2puck: rufus-t-firefly: I've seen worse.

crying right now.....coworkers think im insane.


My kid - think how I feel. :-)

He's 13 now and thinks it's hilarious.
 
2012-08-14 01:12:34 PM
The Astros just a week ago or so had a play that was way worse than AJP's score from first this weekend. Link to post including animated GIFs and video of said Astrofail

I would, however, put AJ scoring from first on a grounder to the shortstop as probably the worst play I've ever seen where no error was charged nor could one have been charged.
 
2012-08-14 01:24:19 PM

rufus-t-firefly: bart2puck: rufus-t-firefly: I've seen worse.

crying right now.....coworkers think im insane.

My kid - think how I feel. :-)

He's 13 now and thinks it's hilarious.


He was motoring along pretty well. I was expecting when the third-base coach sent him back he was going to go all the way back around to the plate or at least first base.
 
2012-08-14 01:26:33 PM

RminusQ: rufus-t-firefly: bart2puck: rufus-t-firefly: I've seen worse.

crying right now.....coworkers think im insane.

My kid - think how I feel. :-)

He's 13 now and thinks it's hilarious.

He was motoring along pretty well. I was expecting when the third-base coach sent him back he was going to go all the way back around to the plate or at least first base.


He left the other base runner in his dust, which should also count for something.
 
2012-08-14 01:28:03 PM

GQueue: The Astros just a week ago or so had a play that was way worse than AJP's score from first this weekend. Link to post including animated GIFs and video of said Astrofail

I would, however, put AJ scoring from first on a grounder to the shortstop as probably the worst play I've ever seen where no error was charged nor could one have been charged.


I think that one was less worse because it was mostly bad throws and not bad decisions.
 
2012-08-14 01:29:11 PM

funk_soul_bubby: I had the joy of watching this one live. Truly awful.


You are not alone. Thought I might be the only one! At that point in time, there was a reasonable chance I would have been at the game... glad I saw that one on TV, I think. But even if it wasn't entertaining, at least it was a kind of entertaining.

I guess it's too old to be in the MLB.tv archives? That video, and the ridiculous overediting, is annoying.

Err, then again, why would I want to see it another time?

(Too bad the graphic's wrong, otherwise it'd be quite cool. If I had any skillz I'd fix it.)

GQueue: the worst play I've ever seen where no error was charged nor could one have been charged.


Interesting point. I guess a scorer can't charge an error to "being wildly out of position" or "E 1-6, heads firmly wedged up asses"? Sort of the inverse of the "if he hadn't been positioned just right and reacted so expertly, he would have been nowhere near the ball and it would have been a hit, but since he *almost* caught it, it's an error" scenario?
 
2012-08-14 02:01:55 PM
MLB network runs this on a regular basis - watch for the countdown shows or blooper shows. And I still laugh every time I see it. It's second only to Jose Canseco being hit in the head by a fly ball, which then bounced over the fence for a home run.
 
2012-08-14 02:02:03 PM
*sigh*

sometimes, it's not easy being a Giants fan.
 
2012-08-14 02:11:12 PM

steamingpile: czetie: MugzyBrown:

Also the worst base running blunder is fat ass Lonnie Smith looking for the ball instead of watching his 3rd base coach waving him home. In the world series. And costing them the series.

/f*ck Lonnie Smith


This.

/Twins!
 
2012-08-14 02:15:44 PM

SFSailor: Interesting point. I guess a scorer can't charge an error to "being wildly out of position" or "E 1-6, heads firmly wedged up asses"? Sort of the inverse of the "if he hadn't been positioned just right and reacted so expertly, he would have been nowhere near the ball and it would have been a hit, but since he *almost* caught it, it's an error" scenario?


I very much disagree with the rule as stated, but no error can be charged for mental errors, even if they rise to the level of mental catastrofarks
 
2012-08-14 02:28:33 PM
The mere mention of Neifi Perez brings back terrible memories of his days as a Cub. Like the worst piece of situational hitting ever where he decided to try to bunt his way on with 2 outs in the bottom of the 9th down by a run.

/needless to say, he fooled nobody and was thrown out by a country mile
//it was late 2006 and the Cubs were just barely in WC contention
///or maybe 2005...
 
2012-08-14 02:39:38 PM

germ78: //it was late 2006 and the Cubs were just barely in WC contention
///or maybe 2005...


Soooo...April?
 
2012-08-14 02:54:38 PM

Dumb-Ass-Monkey: sometimes, it's not easy being a Giants fan.


And sometimes it's awesome. Besides, even when it's tough, ya' got the best ballpark in the game and the the best* announcers in a booth. Embrace the torture.

* I can also hear arguments for Vin Scully (See! Balanced Giants fan, appreciates a bit of Dodger culture.), and would be open to other suggestions to try... although I have yet to be in a hotel somewhere, pre-dating my MLB.tv account of course, and thought, "hey, these local guys are good," rather, quite the opposite, every time.

I just wish Krukow and Kuiper call was left as the feed for nationally-televised games, so people can see what they're missing.

RminusQ: I very much disagree with the rule as stated, but no error can be charged for mental errors, even if they rise to the level of mental catastrofarks


Interesting, and thanks. You've shaken loose a "yeah, I think I remember that, now." On the one hand, I want to scream, "that's terribly outdated! If you fark up royally, that should be an error!" but, on the other, I can see where that would be just ripe for abuse, and almost never being mutually agreed on, so I can see the reasoning. And, of course, there'd just be no way to define clearly what a "mental error" is, I guess.

Still, if you score from first because two bases were left wide open while the infield ran around like a t-ball league, um, that should go on a record somewhere.
 
2012-08-14 03:09:27 PM

SFSailor: Interesting point. I guess a scorer can't charge an error to "being wildly out of position"


There are no official "positions" in baseball other than pitcher and catcher. An "outfielder" can be brought in to play a 4th infield position. (considered generally stupid, but its been done as recently as a few weeks ago.)

Also, if its the bottom of the 9th, home team batting, winning run on 3rd, less than 2 outs... you're going to play your outfield WAY in. A sac fly win the game, so if the batter hits a long fly... you'd just let it go over your their heads, as the game would be over anyway. Not an error.
 
2012-08-14 03:11:35 PM
speaking of all other copies having been burned, there's an MLS free kick that I remember seeing linked on Fark several years ago, "Khano Smith's horrible free kick, New England Revolution vs Kansas City Wizards" you'll find references to it but good luck finding a video of it. If any of you manages to find said video and links it here, thanks in advance, I've been searching.
 
2012-08-14 04:12:30 PM

downstairs: There are no official "positions" in baseball other than pitcher and catcher.


Ah, E 10 (me, at Keyboard Commando): Lazy use of words that have meaning.

"Out of position" as in "where the hell was the guy who was supposed to cover home?" not "the right fielder is standing somewhere unusual."

But, come to think of it, if nothing else: That does add weight to the argument against "mental errors. If you bring an outfielder in to play as a 4th infielder, and it -works-, you get an out. But if the bloop popup winds up where he should have been, is it a mental error to play where the coach set you? No.

Still, I can't help there needs to be something for "where was the guy who was supposed to cover home? That's gotta be somebody's mistake" or whatever that was on the base path in the video generating this thread... ... but maybe it's rare enough so as not to be an issue worth recording, at least at the majors. And coaches probably keep track of -something- as people come up through the leagues.

Huh. Now I'm back to thinking that maybe it's absolutely correct not to record mental errors. Hmmm.
 
2012-08-14 04:27:03 PM

SFSailor: downstairs: There are no official "positions" in baseball other than pitcher and catcher.

Ah, E 10 (me, at Keyboard Commando): Lazy use of words that have meaning.

"Out of position" as in "where the hell was the guy who was supposed to cover home?" not "the right fielder is standing somewhere unusual."

But, come to think of it, if nothing else: That does add weight to the argument against "mental errors. If you bring an outfielder in to play as a 4th infielder, and it -works-, you get an out. But if the bloop popup winds up where he should have been, is it a mental error to play where the coach set you? No.

Still, I can't help there needs to be something for "where was the guy who was supposed to cover home? That's gotta be somebody's mistake" or whatever that was on the base path in the video generating this thread... ... but maybe it's rare enough so as not to be an issue worth recording, at least at the majors. And coaches probably keep track of -something- as people come up through the leagues.

Huh. Now I'm back to thinking that maybe it's absolutely correct not to record mental errors. Hmmm.


Yeah, end result is its rare that players make such mental errors like the ones discussed here.

Also, errors are one of the most meaningless stats. A shortstop (and I'm in NO WAY referring to Derek Jeter) who doesn't use all his range to try to nab every ball won't get an error if one slips past him. But if a shortstop tries for a ball that's just out of his range, hits it and knocks it away from him... he gets an error.
 
2012-08-14 05:40:00 PM

DrBear: MLB network runs this on a regular basis - watch for the countdown shows or blooper shows. And I still laugh every time I see it. It's second only to Jose Canseco being hit in the head by a fly ball, which then bounced over the fence for a home run.



And I saw that one in person.
 
2012-08-14 05:50:57 PM
As a Padres fan I hate subby for reminding me of all the years where the annoucers were constantly saying Reuben's got great potential because he didn't pick up a bat until he was 18, and that idiot also stole Jeter's glove and sold it months after signing a multi-million dollar contract and was released because of it.
 
2012-08-14 06:51:18 PM

muwaryer: DrBear: MLB network runs this on a regular basis - watch for the countdown shows or blooper shows. And I still laugh every time I see it. It's second only to Jose Canseco being hit in the head by a fly ball, which then bounced over the fence for a home run.


And I saw that one in person.


For my money it was in 2008 watching a reds/cardinals game where two reds baserunners run towards 3rd base during a run down (from second and home), upon reaching the bag both stepping off deferring to the other and both getting tagged out.

Then, in the following half-inning, Adam Dunn managed to turn a cardinal double into an inside the park HR (well, with his error) by throwing the ball from the corner in left field to the warning track in straight-away center.

Individually pretty hilarious, taken together they're the epitome of Dusty Fundamentals.

/I'm a little sad that missing the infield by 200+ feet doesn't get more lowlight reel love
 
2012-08-14 10:33:42 PM

bacongood: The retouching only applies if the ball was caught; it wasn't. So be rightfully had reached 2nd and was free to advance to third, assuming he stayed in his baseline.


What baseline? He wasn't attempting to be tagged, which is the only time a "baseline" is established. Outside of that, the runner can be anyplace inside the field of play, including the middle of the outfield (a bush league play called "skunk in the outfield"). The only other place that there's anything resembling a "baseline" is the running lane between home and first, which only comes into play if the batter runner interferes with a throw by being outside of the baseline.
 
2012-08-14 10:38:35 PM

downstairs: Also, errors are one of the most meaningless stats. A shortstop (and I'm in NO WAY referring to Derek Jeter) who doesn't use all his range to try to nab every ball won't get an error if one slips past him. But if a shortstop tries for a ball that's just out of his range, hits it and knocks it away from him... he gets an error.


Actually, errors are only supposed to be charged if they occur under "ordinary effort." If a short shop dives and barely touches the ball, but doesn't catch it, it shouldn't be declared an error unless the shortstop was being completely lazy in getting to it.
 
2012-08-15 06:17:02 AM
Giants brandon belt approves
 
2012-08-15 08:36:00 AM
Ruben is responsible for me getting my first major league baseball.

Cool story bro
 
2012-08-15 01:50:28 PM

thesharkman: Ruben is responsible for me getting my first major league baseball.

Cool story bro


Your blog sucks.
 
2012-08-15 06:14:29 PM

steamingpile: Anytime you pass a base you must touch that base.


To quote somebody upthread from me, I'd like to see the rule on that.

Rule 7.02 states: "7.02 In advancing, a runner shall touch first, second, third and home base in order. If
forced to return, he shall retouch all bases in reverse order, unless the ball is dead under
any provision of Rule 5.09. In such cases, the runner may go directly to his original base."

He was not forced to return so he doesn't have to touch second base, either going back or going forward again. Having touched it legally once, he has possession of the base and can run anyway he wants, at least until somebody tries to tag him (at which point he must establish a base path); or the hitter takes possession of second; or he does something so weird that the umpires decide he has abandoned attempting to run the bases and call him out under rule 7.08(a)(2).

Here's an example of the same rule in effect, except in a play that makes sense. The ball is hit and the runner goes from first, tags second and keeps going. He decides he's not going to make third so he dives back, touches the base but slides off heading towards first. Fortunately for him, the throw to second is offline and goes past the second baseman. The runner jumps up and runs past second without tagging, directly to third where he is safe. He doesn't have to touch second on the way past (again) because he already has second. This play was exactly like that except standing up.

If you think there's a rule of baseball that overrides 7.02 in this situation, please cite it.
 
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