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(CNN)   Overhaul is now a synonym for obliterate   (money.cnn.com) divider line 185
    More: PSA, Medicaid, block grants, Center on Budget, redistribution of wealth, Urban Institute, safety nets, austerities  
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2450 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Aug 2012 at 4:26 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-13 01:28:49 PM  
"We don't want to turn the safety net into a hammock that lulls able-bodied people into lives of dependency and complacency, that drains them of their will and their incentive to make the most of their lives,"

They'd just prefer to turn that safety net into a hole-ridden and moth-eaten piece of string. Under their plan, grandma can take her voucher and get private insurance paid for by a government voucher. And when the voucher (who's amount grows at the rate of inflation of the consumer price index) eventually doesn't pay for her insurance premiums (which rises at the rate of growth of health care costs, which is higher), then TADA - they can point to a prime example of how a government program is unable to efficiently provide health care.

Republicans: Government doesn't work. If it does, then just elect us and we'll make sure to break it.
 
2012-08-13 01:40:35 PM  
I've been paying into Medicare for over 35 years. If you cut me out of it now, I'm going to be extremely pissed.
 
2012-08-13 01:47:45 PM  
FTA: "States would also be given more flexibility to tailor the program's requirements and enrollment criteria."

I don't read this as a positive thing.
 
2012-08-13 01:47:49 PM  
I hope Paul Ryan does a Sonny Bono.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-08-13 01:58:10 PM  
Several conservative think tanks say that the Ryan plan will ultimately help both the nation and the poor.

Well, I guess it will wean them off of that dependence on food and Medical care.
 
2012-08-13 02:05:32 PM  
i2.cdn.turner.com


Prisons / Workhouses 2012
 
2012-08-13 02:23:30 PM  

vpb: Several conservative think tanks say that the Ryan plan will ultimately help both the nation and the poor.

Well, I guess it will wean them off of that dependence on food and Medical care.


and shelter. and oxygen.

i love the "overhaul" thing. let's say i took your wife and replaced her with a chihuahua with the same name. in republican-speak, i just "overhauled" your wife.
 
2012-08-13 02:24:55 PM  

FlashHarry: i love the "overhaul" thing. let's say i took your wife and replaced her with a chihuahua with the same name. in republican-speak, i just "overhauled" your wife.


But so long as the chihuahua gets the same name as your wife, PolitiFact will say "overhauled" is a true statement.
 
2012-08-13 02:45:09 PM  
fc01.deviantart.net
 
2012-08-13 03:19:49 PM  
What I find ironic is that, after whining that Obamacare would create death panels, the GOP is now,essentially, advocating for that.

My mother, near the end of her life, is now in a nursing home, which gets all of my parents' social security and pension money (my dad is already dead). She receives dialysis three times a week and has to go to the hospital now and then. Looking at her medical bills and from what I have seen in more detailed articles, she would use up her benefits before her birthday in March. Maybe my parents income would add a little more time, but not for the whole year. Then would she be out of luck? Most of us are too young to have lived through days when the old and infirm were dumped on the curb by families unable to afford to care for them, I hope we don't live to see those days again (especially as we will be the old and infirm then).

Now if you want to argue that in a time of scarce resources, we should let someone like my mother, who after strokes is pretty much deaf and blind these days, go, then fine -- have that debate. But don't pretend that a defacto death panel is not what is being proposed here.
 
2012-08-13 04:28:17 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: I've been paying into Medicare for over 35 years. If you cut me out of it now, I'm going to be extremely pissed.


That's one of the things I never really got about conservative economics. They always go after Medicare and Social Security. Sure, they're both expensive programs but we also pay a separate tax for both of them. Would we keep paying those taxes if we ditched those programs? If we didn't then we don't gain any revenue from the move. If we did then it would be the government directly subsidizing whatever privatized programs conservatives want instead. Either way it doesn't do anything to relieve our debt.
 
2012-08-13 04:28:30 PM  
The Republican health care solution
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-08-13 04:29:26 PM  
Ryan is a friggin' toolbeat. If anything, this gives Romney even less of a chance.
 
2012-08-13 04:29:34 PM  
Why do we need a social safety net? The Country has crashed in almost 2 years! We are wasting our hard earned money planning for eventualities that may never occur!
 
2012-08-13 04:31:40 PM  
Socialism for seniors and boomers = Good.

Socialism for everyone else = Bad.

This is nothing more than voting block warfare. Seniors and boomers vote in larger numbers than younger generations. The Me Generation strikes again.
 
2012-08-13 04:32:54 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: I've been paying into Medicare for over 35 years. If you cut me out of it now, I'm going to be extremely pissed.


IIRC these proposals don't affect people who are on Medicare now or will be eligible in the near future (I thought the cutoff was around 55).

But if you listen to the left, then you would think that granny being pushed off the cliff tomorrow.
 
2012-08-13 04:34:05 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: But if you listen to the left, then you would think that granny being pushed off the cliff tomorrow.


"We aren't going to begin murdering the elderly for about a decade" isn't a very strong mitigating statement.
 
2012-08-13 04:35:10 PM  

damageddude: What I find ironic is that, after whining that Obamacare would create death panels, the GOP is now,essentially, advocating for that.

My mother, near the end of her life, is now in a nursing home, which gets all of my parents' social security and pension money (my dad is already dead). Looking at her medical bills and from what I have seen in more detailed articles, she would use up her benefits before her birthday in March.


What I find "ironic" is that people don't understand that these proposals have NO impact on people who are currently covered. NONE.

What articles are you reading that miss that little fact?

Now, the 700B cuts to Medicare from 0bamacare, that is a different story.
 
2012-08-13 04:36:07 PM  
The Ryan/Romney plan is to basically turn the US into the 3rd world country that the business elites and wealthy have wanted for decades. That much is obvious when you see how they will take any (and probably all) of the programs that have kept a lot of American citizens fed and housed, with some having a little bit of healthcare (under Medicaid..and in the case of SS & Medicare, keeping the elderly from starving to death or not being able to pay for healthcare).

What amazes me is the fact that so many other 1st world nations have the wherewithal to offer their citizens a safety net, plus universal healthcare, but the United States (at least under the Republicans) would rather hew to the belief that those who need help due to circumstances out of their control (for the most part) actually got there through their own actions (or inaction), and therefore deserve the bad things and circumstances that they suffer from.
 
2012-08-13 04:36:16 PM  
Ryan seems to like a socity with high crime rates.
 
2012-08-13 04:36:20 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: IIRC these proposals don't affect people who are on Medicare now or will be eligible in the near future


Fark everyone else, amirite?
 
2012-08-13 04:36:24 PM  

sprawl15: tenpoundsofcheese: But if you listen to the left, then you would think that granny being pushed off the cliff tomorrow.

"We aren't going to begin murdering the elderly for about a decade" isn't a very strong mitigating statement.


Yeah, it also isn't even remotely accurate either, but go ahead, derp away!!
 
2012-08-13 04:36:29 PM  
What kind of healthcare do they have in that Middle Eastern country these tools are always grovelling over and sucking up to?

Oh.
 
2012-08-13 04:37:07 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Now, the 700B cuts to Medicare from 0bamacare...


Are also in the Ryan budget.
 
2012-08-13 04:37:32 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Marcus Aurelius: I've been paying into Medicare for over 35 years. If you cut me out of it now, I'm going to be extremely pissed.

IIRC these proposals don't affect people who are on Medicare now or will be eligible in the near future (I thought the cutoff was around 55).

But if you listen to the left, then you would think that granny being pushed off the cliff tomorrow.


"We're not going to fark over anyone who is likely to vote for us."
 
2012-08-13 04:37:59 PM  
"We don't want to turn the safety net into a hammock that lulls able-bodied people into lives of dependency and complacency, that drains them of their will and their incentive to make the most of their lives,"

Damn straight America! If you can't work to get Medicaid, maybe you should be dead. Farking freeloading assjacks.
 
2012-08-13 04:38:29 PM  

AurizenDarkstar: The Ryan/Romney plan is to basically turn the US into the 3rd world country that the business elites and wealthy have wanted for decades. That much is obvious when you see how they will take any (and probably all) of the programs that have kept a lot of American citizens fed and housed, with some having a little bit of healthcare (under Medicaid..and in the case of SS & Medicare, keeping the elderly from starving to death or not being able to pay for healthcare).

What amazes me is the fact that so many other 1st world nations have the wherewithal to offer their citizens a safety net, plus universal healthcare, but the United States (at least under the Republicans) would rather hew to the belief that those who need help due to circumstances out of their control (for the most part) actually got there through their own actions (or inaction), and therefore deserve the bad things and circumstances that they suffer from.


It's the dark side of our Puritanical heritage. Believing that God provides to those who work hard carries the corollary that anyone who is poor is that way because God is punishing them for their laziness
 
2012-08-13 04:38:40 PM  
Like I've said before. If your only objective is to have the government pay less for Medicare, then Ryan's plan is perfect. That's exactly what it does.

What it doesn't do is address is how seniors with both fixed incomes and huge medical expenses is supposed to pay for anything after the vouchers run out. "Don't get sick" has never been a very good plan.

Sad story, bro: My husband's grandfather passed away earlier this year. He was 92. During the last MONTH of his life, with a part-time in-home caregiver and one trip to the emergency room (not the night he died), the family ended up spending $20,000 on medical expenses. It shouldn't cost you a new car or a college education to be old for a month.
 
2012-08-13 04:38:40 PM  
Yes, yes, literally the only thing that motivates anyone is money. You projectionists.
 
2012-08-13 04:38:52 PM  

Counter_Intelligent: tenpoundsofcheese: IIRC these proposals don't affect people who are on Medicare now or will be eligible in the near future

Fark everyone else, amirite?


Nope.
People who paid in a lot, get what they paid into.

You either believe that Medicare needs reform or you don't. If you do, you have to start somewhere and the best place to start is with people who haven't paid much into the current system.
 
2012-08-13 04:39:24 PM  
What is "welcomed as liberators" a synonym for?

Last time a republican was president we heard some serious whoppers.
 
2012-08-13 04:39:29 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Marcus Aurelius: I've been paying into Medicare for over 35 years. If you cut me out of it now, I'm going to be extremely pissed.

IIRC these proposals don't affect people who are on Medicare now or will be eligible in the near future (I thought the cutoff was around 55).

But if you listen to the left, then you would think that granny being pushed off the cliff tomorrow.


And if you listen to the old people, they don't want these programs changed, either. That is, old people on the left AND the right (though as a demographic, they're right of the rest of us).

// 51% of old folk 51+ years old oppose the Ryan Medicare plan
// older folks also like Medicare more than the people not using it, and only want "minor" tweaks to it - as opposed to every other demographic, who want more major changes
 
2012-08-13 04:39:47 PM  
"We don't want to turn the safety net into a hammock that lulls able-bodied people into lives of dependency and complacency, that drains them of their will and their incentive to make the most of their lives,"

farking sociopaths jesus christ
 
2012-08-13 04:40:21 PM  
I don't understand why the GOP is pushing the Ryan plan so hard. It was DOA twice in Congress. It stinks on ice and everyone knows it, but here goes Romney saddling up the dead horse. Strange.
 
2012-08-13 04:41:08 PM  
Yet they'll keep campaigning against Obama giving states more control over Welfare like the GOP requested.

Pick a farking opinion and stick with it.
 
2012-08-13 04:41:10 PM  

FlashHarry: let's say i took your wife and replaced her with a chihuahua with the same name.


If you replaced my wife with a small yappy thing that needed constant attention, I'm not sure I'd notice.
 
2012-08-13 04:41:11 PM  
I don't quite understand why Medicare is so popular in the US when rolling Medicare out to the entire population isn't.

/genuinely baffled European.
 
2012-08-13 04:41:21 PM  
"We don't want to turn the safety net into a hammock that lulls able-bodied people into lives of dependency and complacency, that drains them of their will and their incentive to make the most of their lives," Ryan said at the time.

Democrats are kept up at night worrying that somewhere someone that deserves help is not getting the help they need.
Republicans are kept up at night worrying that somewhere someone that does not deserve help is getting help they don't need.
 
2012-08-13 04:42:06 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: The Republican health care solution
[2.bp.blogspot.com image 400x300]


Hey, don't mock that possibility... after all, the possibility of being Renewed seems like a pretty sweet deal.

/ Hanging out with Peter Ustinov and the cats
 
2012-08-13 04:42:11 PM  
I'm not concerned about the very poor. We have a safety net there. If it needs repair, I'll fix it

Or, you know, shred it.
 
2012-08-13 04:42:12 PM  
Vouchers.. also known as coupons. So you take your coupon, and go looking for a health insurance company.. oops, none of them will touch you if you're over 60.
 
2012-08-13 04:42:41 PM  

quizzical: He was 92. During the last MONTH of his life, with a part-time in-home caregiver and one trip to the emergency room (not the night he died), the family ended up spending $20,000 on medical expenses. It shouldn't cost you a new car or a college education to be old for a month.


You got to be kidding.

How much should it cost, on a monthly basis, to keep a sick 92 year old alive forever?
 
2012-08-13 04:43:07 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: I don't understand why the GOP is pushing the Ryan plan so hard. It was DOA twice in Congress. It stinks on ice and everyone knows it, but here goes Romney saddling up the dead horse. Strange.


See: Overton Window
 
2012-08-13 04:43:44 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: quizzical: He was 92. During the last MONTH of his life, with a part-time in-home caregiver and one trip to the emergency room (not the night he died), the family ended up spending $20,000 on medical expenses. It shouldn't cost you a new car or a college education to be old for a month.

You got to be kidding.

How much should it cost, on a monthly basis, to keep a sick 92 year old alive forever?


Well not forever.... obviously.
 
2012-08-13 04:44:17 PM  

Bungles: I don't quite understand why Medicare is so popular in the US when rolling Medicare out to the entire population isn't.

/genuinely baffled European.


"I got mine, FARK YOU."

Medicare is popular amongst the people who have Medicare. If they were to expand to other people, that might effect their coverage. So people with Medicare got theirs, fark the people who do not.
 
2012-08-13 04:44:33 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: I don't understand why the GOP is pushing the Ryan plan so hard. It was DOA twice in Congress. It stinks on ice and everyone knows it, but here goes Romney saddling up the dead horse. Strange.


The press is pushing the Ryan plan, not the GOP.

"Romney chose Ryan, let's all talk about the Ryan plan."
 
2012-08-13 04:45:07 PM  

Bungles: I don't quite understand why Medicare is so popular in the US when rolling Medicare out to the entire population isn't.

/genuinely baffled European.


a lot of us don't get it either...
 
2012-08-13 04:45:14 PM  

Bungles: I don't quite understand why Medicare is so popular in the US when rolling Medicare out to the entire population isn't.

/genuinely baffled European.


Old people are worried that to many hands in the cookie jar, will prevent them from getting whats there share.
 
2012-08-13 04:45:21 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: quizzical: He was 92. During the last MONTH of his life, with a part-time in-home caregiver and one trip to the emergency room (not the night he died), the family ended up spending $20,000 on medical expenses. It shouldn't cost you a new car or a college education to be old for a month.

You got to be kidding.

How much should it cost, on a monthly basis, to keep a sick 92 year old alive forever?


By all means go ahead and tell us, what is a month of life worth in dollars?
 
2012-08-13 04:45:28 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Soup4Bonnie: I don't understand why the GOP is pushing the Ryan plan so hard. It was DOA twice in Congress. It stinks on ice and everyone knows it, but here goes Romney saddling up the dead horse. Strange.

The press is pushing the Ryan plan, not the GOP.

"Romney chose Ryan, let's all talk about the Ryan plan."


Does Ryan support the Ryan plan?
 
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