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(Palm Springs Desert Sun)   National Clean Energy Summit wraps up in a self-congratulatory orgy in that most sustainable of cities, Las Vegas   (mydesert.com) divider line 28
    More: Ironic, Las Vegas, Green Desert, Coachella Valley, Joshua Tree National Park, American Wind Energy Association, Bureau of Land Management, solar energy, city  
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366 clicks; posted to Business » on 13 Aug 2012 at 2:58 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-13 12:25:36 PM
And then everyone drove home in their electric (read: Coal powered) cars!!

Right?!

Never mind they all took their limos to the private airport......
 
2012-08-13 12:29:25 PM
Well, pretty much all of their power comes from the Hoover Dam...
 
2012-08-13 12:39:51 PM

Fo Shiz: Well, pretty much all of their power comes from the Hoover Dam...


Yeah. I was going to say, hydroelectric is pretty sustainable.

What else you got, Subtard? Maybe something on Al Gore's choice of travel? The SUVs Obama rides around in?

This is pretty weak.
 
2012-08-13 01:06:22 PM
Yeah, sorry failmitter, a quick GIS shows that Nevada basically leads the nation in solar and geothermal development.
 
2012-08-13 01:41:42 PM

Vodka Zombie: Yeah. I was going to say, hydroelectric is pretty sustainable.


Tell it to the salmon population of the northwestern US.

For a century, since the first dam was built in 1912 to supply power for the town of Port Angeles and later a lumber mill, salmon have been trying, futilely, to follow their genetic GPS upstream on the Elwha. Instead, five miles south of where they enter the river from the Strait of Juan de Fuca, they hit a concrete wall.

"They pool at the bottom and go in circles," said LaTrisha Suggs, the assistant director of river restoration for the Lower Elwha Klallam Tribe. "They swim up, they swim down, they swim up, they swim down."

Biologists say that will change once the dams are fully removed, sometime in 2014
 
2012-08-13 02:52:25 PM
But the real game-changer will be storage, said Phil Giudice, CEO of Liquid Metal Battery Corporation, which is developing grid-level storage technology.

Instead of an energy system built around meeting minute-to-minute or peak demand, storage will allow the grid to operate on average demand, he said, which in turn will allow much greater use of intermittent energy sources such as wind and solar.



That would be a huge step in the right direction.
 
2012-08-13 03:03:59 PM
So we're telling ourselves now that the water supply situation in Vegas is sustainable?
 
2012-08-13 03:05:14 PM

Vodka Zombie: Fo Shiz: Well, pretty much all of their power comes from the Hoover Dam...

Yeah. I was going to say, hydroelectric is pretty sustainable.

What else you got, Subtard? Maybe something on Al Gore's choice of travel? The SUVs Obama rides around in?

This is pretty weak.


Honestly, though, Al Gore has done way more to discredit the fight against Global Warming that anyone I can come up with.
 
2012-08-13 03:05:14 PM

Gulper Eel: Vodka Zombie: Yeah. I was going to say, hydroelectric is pretty sustainable.

Tell it to the salmon population of the northwestern US.

For a century, since the first dam was built in 1912 to supply power for the town of Port Angeles and later a lumber mill, salmon have been trying, futilely, to follow their genetic GPS upstream on the Elwha. Instead, five miles south of where they enter the river from the Strait of Juan de Fuca, they hit a concrete wall.

"They pool at the bottom and go in circles," said LaTrisha Suggs, the assistant director of river restoration for the Lower Elwha Klallam Tribe. "They swim up, they swim down, they swim up, they swim down."

Biologists say that will change once the dams are fully removed, sometime in 2014


"Sustainable" doesn't mean "environmentally angelic".
 
2012-08-13 03:08:43 PM

PowerSlacker: So we're telling ourselves now that the water supply situation in Vegas is sustainable?


About the only thing Vegas is doing for us right now is ensuring that there is absolutely zero threat of the Hoover Dam ever being over topped.
 
2012-08-13 03:09:33 PM

Fo Shiz: Well, pretty much all of their power comes from the Hoover Dam...


I urge you to consider this:

PowerSlacker: So we're telling ourselves now that the water supply situation in Vegas is sustainable?

 
2012-08-13 03:10:19 PM

Vodka Zombie: Fo Shiz: Well, pretty much all of their power comes from the Hoover Dam...

Yeah. I was going to say, hydroelectric is pretty sustainable.

What else you got, Subtard? Maybe something on Al Gore's choice of travel? The SUVs Obama rides around in?

This is pretty weak.


I wouldn't throw the tard insult out so quickly.
 
2012-08-13 03:39:55 PM
Every orgy I've been to has resulted in self-loathing.
 
2012-08-13 03:43:53 PM

Gulper Eel: Vodka Zombie: Yeah. I was going to say, hydroelectric is pretty sustainable.

Tell it to the salmon population of the northwestern US.

For a century, since the first dam was built in 1912 to supply power for the town of Port Angeles and later a lumber mill, salmon have been trying, futilely, to follow their genetic GPS upstream on the Elwha. Instead, five miles south of where they enter the river from the Strait of Juan de Fuca, they hit a concrete wall.

"They pool at the bottom and go in circles," said LaTrisha Suggs, the assistant director of river restoration for the Lower Elwha Klallam Tribe. "They swim up, they swim down, they swim up, they swim down."

Biologists say that will change once the dams are fully removed, sometime in 2014


The dams are already (basically) down, now they are trying to mitigate the century's worth of silt. The fish will repopulate faster than people think.

/now if we can only get rid of the Snake river dams
 
2012-08-13 03:50:16 PM
chud.com


Not to worry. I fixed the reflectors and routed the power to the Strip.
 
2012-08-13 03:54:54 PM

PowerSlacker: So we're telling ourselves now that the water supply situation in Vegas is sustainable?


You obviously have no idea where most of the water from Lake Mead goes. It goes to idiots who grow vegetables in the middle of the Mojave Desert. As a matter of fact, LA and San Diego get more water from the Colorado than Las Vegas. Link
 
2012-08-13 03:59:56 PM
City life in general is not sustainable. You cannot produce enough food for the ten million people crammed into a shoebox without the network of unsustainable(!) roads throughout the countryside where city people think all the poor people live lives of unsustainability. Until we run that "sustainable" rail system up and down the corn fields....

Unsustainable doesn't mean much once we stop talking about people living in the desert, on the tops of mountains, or on Mars. It means "you suck because you do things differently than I talk about doing them"
 
2012-08-13 04:03:21 PM

Big_Fat_Liar: City life in general is not sustainable. You cannot produce enough food for the ten million people crammed into a shoebox without the network of unsustainable(!) roads throughout the countryside where city people think all the poor people live lives of unsustainability. Until we run that "sustainable" rail system up and down the corn fields....


WTF am I reading?
 
2012-08-13 04:10:00 PM

whither_apophis:
/now if we can only get rid of the Snake river dams


Few more issues on doing away with the Snake River Dams; namely, more power involved (about 3GW, nameplate), Lewiston as a Seaport and the fact that salmon are doing pretty well in the Snake River system. We will see, but I think these dams are still going to be there churning out power long after you and I.
 
2012-08-13 04:20:54 PM
Done in 1 and 2
 
2012-08-13 06:37:28 PM

YixilTesiphon: "Sustainable" doesn't mean "environmentally angelic".


Even by those standards, Vegas is far from sustainable. The city uses far more power than the Hoover Dam generates. So much for that talking point.

Vegas daily usage (2009 figure): 5600 mw on a summer day, en route to 8000 by 2015.

Hoover Dam (nameplate) output: 2080 mw.

Also, looky here: dams are linked to climate change.

If I didn't know better I would think perhaps more than a few of the attendees were there for (bender) blackjack...and hookers (/bender).

The only dumber place for a huge sprawled-out city may be New Orleans.
 
2012-08-13 06:47:52 PM

Vodka Zombie: Fo Shiz: Well, pretty much all of their power comes from the Hoover Dam...

Yeah. I was going to say, hydroelectric is pretty sustainable.

What else you got, Subtard? Maybe something on Al Gore's choice of travel? The SUVs Obama rides around in?

This is pretty weak.


I was under the impression the biggest issue was water, not power. The city is essentially in the middle of a desert and they burn through water like there was no tomorrow. Golf courses, lawns, fountains, they literally throw the stuff up in the air for it to disappear.
 
2012-08-13 09:25:34 PM

HeadLever: whither_apophis:
/now if we can only get rid of the Snake river dams

Few more issues on doing away with the Snake River Dams; namely, more power involved (about 3GW, nameplate), Lewiston as a Seaport and the fact that salmon are doing pretty well in the Snake River system. We will see, but I think these dams are still going to be there churning out power long after you and I.


I agree that they'll be around for a long time but it's only the political interests behind the Lewiston seaport keeping them around. The dams don't hold water in large reservoirs so they don't produce anywhere near their rating, fish runs are "not declining" at best, $$$ have been spent on fish that should've gone towards rail improvments to move grain, the whole point of the port, Eastern WA wind farms go offline when there's high hydro production so they are in place already, etc.
 
2012-08-13 09:39:07 PM

Fo Shiz: Yeah, sorry failmitter, a quick GIS shows that Nevada basically leads the nation in solar and geothermal development.


This.

Also, these conferences are not necessarily held where the technology is popular now, but where we would like it to grow. Case in point: Solar Power International, the country's biggest solar conference/trade show, will be in Orlando this year. Florida lags horribly on solar energy, but there are good signs for the future.

(And, of course, many of these conferences buy RECs to cover their power needs, regardless of location)
 
jvl
2012-08-14 12:02:41 AM

Vodka Zombie: Fo Shiz: Well, pretty much all of their power comes from the Hoover Dam...

Yeah. I was going to say, hydroelectric is pretty sustainable.

What else you got, Subtard? Maybe something on Al Gore's choice of travel? The SUVs Obama rides around in?

This is pretty weak.


This has got to be the stupidest comment I've read all week. You really think Hoover dam is able to power all of Las Vegas? Also, if Las Vegas was located somewhere which requires less AC, would that not free up Hover Dam electricity to replace some of the carbon-based electrical generation?

Placing a resort city in an arid desert is going to be a energy-loser.
 
2012-08-14 12:31:32 AM

whither_apophis: it's only the political interests behind the Lewiston seaport keeping them around


No, it is economic as well. Barging is cheaper than rail or truck for many cases and does have a big economic impact to Idaho, Eastern Washington and Eastern Oregon.

The dams don't hold water in large reservoirs so they don't produce anywhere near their rating,

The dams do hold water behind them as designed. Since the reservoirs are relatively small compared to other reservoirs, they are called run of the river dams. However, the power they generate is not based upon storage, but only flow and differential water elevation (head). On an average, you are correct that they don't provide that much power (average a little over 1 GW). However, for peaking periods when demand are high, they can certainly produce that much power.

fish runs are "not declining" at best, $$$ have been spent on fish that should've gone towards rail improvments to move grain,

BPA money will never go toward rail improvement. Rail is mostly a privately owned system. Money that goes to that end will come from another source that has little to do with the money the BPA spends on fishery and habitat programs.

Eastern WA wind farms go offline when there's high hydro production so they are in place already,

Wind farms are not base-load power while hydro is. Wind will never replace hydro simply because of this. To replace this hydro, you need another base-load source.

You seem to have an opinion on this issue based upon arguments that are specious at best.
 
2012-08-14 01:24:46 AM

miniflea: Vodka Zombie: Fo Shiz: Well, pretty much all of their power comes from the Hoover Dam...

Yeah. I was going to say, hydroelectric is pretty sustainable.

What else you got, Subtard? Maybe something on Al Gore's choice of travel? The SUVs Obama rides around in?

This is pretty weak.

I was under the impression the biggest issue was water, not power. The city is essentially in the middle of a desert and they burn through water like there was no tomorrow. Golf courses, lawns, fountains, they literally throw the stuff up in the air for it to disappear.


Wow, the water just disappears in the air, gone forever? If only there was some way to put water in the air that it would come back to the ground again.
 
2012-08-14 04:19:56 AM

fredbox: miniflea: Vodka Zombie: Fo Shiz: Well, pretty much all of their power comes from the Hoover Dam...

Yeah. I was going to say, hydroelectric is pretty sustainable.

What else you got, Subtard? Maybe something on Al Gore's choice of travel? The SUVs Obama rides around in?

This is pretty weak.

I was under the impression the biggest issue was water, not power. The city is essentially in the middle of a desert and they burn through water like there was no tomorrow. Golf courses, lawns, fountains, they literally throw the stuff up in the air for it to disappear.

Wow, the water just disappears in the air, gone forever? If only there was some way to put water in the air that it would come back to the ground again.


Water is only useful if it is accessible. That evaporation doesn't magically end up back in the rivers and aquifers, not all of it, and most certainly not at the rate it is taken out. I'm no hydrologist but I like to think i'm not a complete idiot. Using sprinklers on golf courses and lawns in a desert strikes me as stupid and wasteful, even if you can get away with it for a hundred years or so.
 
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