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(Slate)   52% of voters favor the Ryan budget... until they're told what's in it   (slate.com) divider line 120
    More: Silly, party favors  
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3684 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Aug 2012 at 11:53 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-13 09:57:08 AM
Behold the power of branding. Republicans are still seen as the financially smart party even if the barest look at the facts show that they are not.
 
2012-08-13 09:59:07 AM
And people hate Obamacare until they learn what's in it.

Funny, that.
 
2012-08-13 10:00:34 AM
I do not envy anyone living in Florida.

The next few months are going to be nothing but Ryan's budget will kill your medicare and social security ads.
 
2012-08-13 10:05:13 AM
And on the other side of the coin, most Americans favor all the individual parts of the PPACA, but when you slap the scary name of Obamacare on it, they want it repealed.
 
2012-08-13 10:05:56 AM

Aarontology: I do not envy anyone living in Florida.

The next few months are going to be nothing but Ryan's budget will kill your medicare and social security ads.


Pennsylvania will probably get the same treatment.
 
2012-08-13 10:07:26 AM
Area man passionate defender of what he believes Paul Ryan's budget plan to be.
 
2012-08-13 10:08:54 AM

SilentStrider: Aarontology: I do not envy anyone living in Florida.

The next few months are going to be nothing but Ryan's budget will kill your medicare and social security ads.

Pennsylvania will probably get the same treatment.


Every swing state, really. But especially the ones with the highest concentrations of old people.
 
2012-08-13 10:10:09 AM

Aarontology: I do not envy anyone living in Florida.

The next few months are going to be nothing but Ryan's budget will kill your medicare and social security ads.


It's been pretty bad so far. We have an election tomorrow. I expect no less than 6 political robocalls just from local races this evening.
 
2012-08-13 10:11:41 AM

Diogenes: It's been pretty bad so far. We have an election tomorrow. I expect no less than 6 political robocalls just from local races this evening.


Just unplug the phone and cancel your cable for the next couple of months.
 
2012-08-13 10:20:59 AM
But he's so smart and serious and wonky and stuff.
 
2012-08-13 10:23:48 AM

DamnYankees: But he's so smart and serious and wonky and stuff.


Don't forget drop-dead gorgeous.
 
2012-08-13 10:25:58 AM

Diogenes: Aarontology: I do not envy anyone living in Florida.

The next few months are going to be nothing but Ryan's budget will kill your medicare and social security ads.

It's been pretty bad so far. We have an election tomorrow. I expect no less than 6 political robocalls just from local races this evening.


I recommend that Liberal Americans wanting to avoid this come up and visit Canada, and on the freak chance Romney wins it will be a good opportunity to get the paperwork started so you don't have to go back.
 
2012-08-13 10:43:04 AM

SilentStrider: Aarontology: I do not envy anyone living in Florida.

The next few months are going to be nothing but Ryan's budget will kill your medicare and social security ads.

Pennsylvania will probably get the same treatment.


Pennsylvania is no longer a swing state really. It's pretty safe Dem.

Virginia has replaced it.
 
2012-08-13 10:43:37 AM
Does anyone have a trustworthy link to *exactly* what's in Ryan's budget plan? I don't want it boiled down by some CNN analyst or Faux News pundit, either.

/and I'm not in the mood to scour house.gov's database
 
2012-08-13 10:46:30 AM

xanadian: Does anyone have a trustworthy link to *exactly* what's in Ryan's budget plan? I don't want it boiled down by some CNN analyst or Faux News pundit, either.

/and I'm not in the mood to scour house.gov's database


Is Wikipedia trustworthy enough? If not I'm sure you can dig out the actual plan from the links there.
 
2012-08-13 10:46:46 AM

GAT_00: SilentStrider: Aarontology: I do not envy anyone living in Florida.

The next few months are going to be nothing but Ryan's budget will kill your medicare and social security ads.

Pennsylvania will probably get the same treatment.

Pennsylvania is no longer a swing state really. It's pretty safe Dem.

Virginia has replaced it.


Well, it would be if people are allowed to vote.
 
2012-08-13 10:47:16 AM
Fark threw away my link. Let's try again.
 
2012-08-13 10:47:32 AM

GAT_00: SilentStrider: Aarontology: I do not envy anyone living in Florida.

The next few months are going to be nothing but Ryan's budget will kill your medicare and social security ads.

Pennsylvania will probably get the same treatment.

Pennsylvania is no longer a swing state really. It's pretty safe Dem.

Virginia has replaced it.


I never got why Pennsylvania was considered a swing state in the first place. It's gone Dem forever and by usually comfortable amounts.
 
2012-08-13 10:48:21 AM

xanadian: Does anyone have a trustworthy link to *exactly* what's in Ryan's budget plan? I don't want it boiled down by some CNN analyst or Faux News pundit, either.


In PDF format

The first bullet point would be cuts made for the first year, and the second would be cuts made the second year.

For me the thing that matters immediately is the 19% cut to the NIH, because I'm a cancer researcher and my funding comes from there.
 
2012-08-13 10:48:30 AM

xanadian: Does anyone have a trustworthy link to *exactly* what's in Ryan's budget plan?


Link, .pdf
 
2012-08-13 10:49:49 AM

xanadian: Does anyone have a trustworthy link to *exactly* what's in Ryan's budget plan? I don't want it boiled down by some CNN analyst or Faux News pundit, either.

/and I'm not in the mood to scour house.gov's database


It boils down to this: Cap medicare and food stamp spending (as opposed to the open-ended system we have now), end capital gains and dividend taxes, and close a bunch of loopholes to make up the revenue.

The obvious problems: Tens of millions of people will lose their health and food benefits, rich people will pay far less in taxes while poor people will pay more, and you have to pick some loopholes to close, which -- surprise, surprise -- Ryan and Romney refuse to specify.
 
2012-08-13 10:53:05 AM
and 52% of hot biatches favor my 12 inch cock
 
2012-08-13 10:53:31 AM

xanadian: Does anyone have a trustworthy link to *exactly* what's in Ryan's budget plan? I don't want it boiled down by some CNN analyst or Faux News pundit, either.

/and I'm not in the mood to scour house.gov's database


Here is one that lists the five key points of the plan and it doesn't seem to put much of a spin on it.

Link

I saw the other links listed, but this seemed like more what you were after.
 
2012-08-13 10:58:32 AM

Tigger: and 52% of hot biatches favor my 12 inch cock


Until they're told what's in it?
 
2012-08-13 10:58:53 AM
Look, Ryan hasn't "crunched the numbers"; he has just scribbled some stuff down, without checking at all to see if it makes sense. He asserts that he can cut taxes without net loss of revenue by closing unspecified loopholes; he asserts that he can cut discretionary spending to levels not seen since Calvin Coolidge, without saying how; he asserts that he can convert Medicare to a voucher system, with much lower spending than now projected, without even a hint of how this is supposed to work. This is just a fantasy, not a serious policy proposal. Link
 
2012-08-13 11:02:11 AM

Aarontology: GAT_00: SilentStrider: Aarontology: I do not envy anyone living in Florida.

The next few months are going to be nothing but Ryan's budget will kill your medicare and social security ads.

Pennsylvania will probably get the same treatment.

Pennsylvania is no longer a swing state really. It's pretty safe Dem.

Virginia has replaced it.

I never got why Pennsylvania was considered a swing state in the first place. It's gone Dem forever and by usually comfortable amounts.


Didn't it go for Bush one year? Maybe that's why.
 
2012-08-13 11:03:27 AM

FishyFred: you have to pick some loopholes to close, which -- surprise, surprise -- Ryan and Romney refuse to specify.


We can't talk about Mitt's business experience, his time as governor, his tax history, or his plans for the country because people will say mean things about them. In order to have civil political discourse, we need to stick our fingers in our ears, close our eyes, and fumble around for the voting lever with our elbows come November.
 
2012-08-13 11:05:32 AM

GAT_00: Didn't it go for Bush one year? Maybe that's why.


Bush Sr. Pennsylvania hasn't voted for a Republican in 24 years.
 
2012-08-13 11:07:41 AM

GAT_00: Didn't it go for Bush one year? Maybe that's why.


The older one I think.

Not any time recently. I think it's because every so often they elect a tard like Santorum so the pundits freak out about the Pennsyltucky parts of the state.
 
2012-08-13 11:08:14 AM
Department of Energy

Department of Health and Human Services

Department of Housing and Urban Development

Department of Education

EPA

Department of Labor


Romney and Ryan will get rid of the bloated departments that are holding us back. Cut the red tape and get America back on her feet again.
 
2012-08-13 11:08:37 AM

odinsposse: xanadian: Does anyone have a trustworthy link to *exactly* what's in Ryan's budget plan? I don't want it boiled down by some CNN analyst or Faux News pundit, either.

/and I'm not in the mood to scour house.gov's database

Is Wikipedia trustworthy enough? If not I'm sure you can dig out the actual plan from the links there.


I'll go check it out.

....aaaand all the other links offered. Thanks!
 
2012-08-13 11:09:05 AM
The only theory I can come up with that doesn't involve the GOP being totally out of their gourds is this:
The Rovian/Old guard wing of the party realized the Tea Party wing has destroyed whatever "big tent" was left. Having no candidate to run they let Romney get the nod, than throw Ryan out there. Ryan's budget and Ryan are well known in political circles and by the media but unknown by the masses. The elections run forces all this out into the open and the Republicans, due to both Romney and Ryan get slaughtered in the election. The Old guard than uses it as a call to arms to shift the parties direction and priorities in an attempt to have something they can stand on in 2016 well also putting down the Ryans of the party.
 
2012-08-13 11:10:04 AM

mrshowrules: Diogenes: Aarontology: I do not envy anyone living in Florida.

The next few months are going to be nothing but Ryan's budget will kill your medicare and social security ads.

It's been pretty bad so far. We have an election tomorrow. I expect no less than 6 political robocalls just from local races this evening.

I recommend that Liberal Americans wanting to avoid this come up and visit Canada, and on the freak chance Romney wins it will be a good opportunity to get the paperwork started so you don't have to go back.


I like Kingston. I almost went to Queen's U.

But I think the more accurate term is "Sane Americans." I don't like getting no-opt-out political propoganda calls from liberal politicians, either. I can consider it an invasion of privacy. If I want to know about you, I'll tune in the news or look up your site.
 
2012-08-13 11:10:14 AM
It's the same with almost all of these massive bills. Depending on what the news has told them to think, the polling will be whatever.

Once you hear about free birth control, insurance till 26,mammograms, and what not, people immediately change their minds.

Marketing works.

/Kill yourselves.
/Planting seeds.
 
2012-08-13 11:10:33 AM

DamnYankees: GAT_00: Didn't it go for Bush one year? Maybe that's why.

Bush Sr. Pennsylvania hasn't voted for a Republican in 24 years.


Yes, but it has had a Republican Governor for 10 of those 24 years, and currently has a GOP controlled legislature. The real battle for PA is in the suburbs of Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, where you have working class conservative Democrats (blue dogs) and liberal-ish Republicans. The major Cities are controlled by the Democrats, while the vast field of nothing in-between is controlled by the GOP.
 
2012-08-13 11:11:27 AM

miss diminutive: Tigger: and 52% of hot biatches favor my 12 inch cock

Until they're told what's in it?


Are you suggesting that b*tches don't know about his dick?
 
2012-08-13 11:13:48 AM

Kome: miss diminutive: Tigger: and 52% of hot biatches favor my 12 inch cock

Until they're told what's in it?

Are you suggesting that b*tches don't know about his dick?


what's in his dick will kill all of our grandmothers.
 
2012-08-13 11:14:33 AM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: DamnYankees: GAT_00: Didn't it go for Bush one year? Maybe that's why.

Bush Sr. Pennsylvania hasn't voted for a Republican in 24 years.

Yes, but it has had a Republican Governor for 10 of those 24 years, and currently has a GOP controlled legislature. The real battle for PA is in the suburbs of Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, where you have working class conservative Democrats (blue dogs) and liberal-ish Republicans. The major Cities are controlled by the Democrats, while the vast field of nothing in-between is controlled by the GOP.


And don't forget the GOP sponsored voter suppression act
 
2012-08-13 11:31:45 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: xanadian: Does anyone have a trustworthy link to *exactly* what's in Ryan's budget plan?

Link, .pdf


Ugh. I get to page 19 and Ryan lists only THREE of the driving forces (expenditures) behind our deficit. I'm all for paying for national security, but damned if my tax dollars is going to the military-industrial complex that tries to force tanks on to a Pentagon that doesn't want them. Although I'll grant him this much: his chart tallies up the 3 social programs he's targeting, and they add up to only about 10% (as a share of the economy).

Unfortunately, a lot of Ryan's actual plan reads like a puff piece, but it's good to know what he's actually saying. Not sure how factual his claims are...

Ryan2065: Here is one that lists the five key points of the plan and it doesn't seem to put much of a spin on it.

Link


I remember reading about item #2 on that list. Obamacare is supposed to impact providers, while Ryan's plan impacts *beneficiaries*. I'll pass on that.

I'm all for cutting the tax loopholes out (#3 on the list). I think cutting the tax rate to 25% for top earners is stupid, but I do acknowledge that small business owners (typically low millionaires) should be given some relief, whether it's tax incentives towards re-investment, or whatever. Someone on here said this is exactly what Obama put in his budget proposal. I'll have to look that one up, too.

I can see item #4 being a road to combining Medicare with Medicaid, if Ryan's budget hands Medicare over to the states. It would mean only ONE bureau dealing with health care instead of two. I can see that working, as long as it doesn't negatively impact the beneficiaries.

odinsposse: Fark threw away my link. Let's try again.


I don't like the voucher program, but I'll give him props for only allowing the "bottom 92%" the full entitlement. ... I donno. Actually, I'm on the fence with the voucher program, but you'd probably get better results by limiting what providers and insurance companies can claim, and by increasing efficiency in the system. Combining Medicare and Medicaid to be state-run (one bureau = less government and less spending) makes sense, but I'm sure there are pitfalls to that, too.

Ryan's budget would "Repeal tax credits for small employers that offer health insurance." Yeah. GOOD IDEA, ASSHAT.

I also see tort reform in his plan. I'm okay with this.

Also, from Wikipedia: "The instructions given to the CBO to evaluate the proposal specified revenue of 19% GDP, which is above the current level of around 15% GDP and slightly above the 30-year historical average of 18.2% GDP. The Path states separately that income tax rates would be lowered and selected tax expenditures (such as deductions, exemptions, and subsidies) would be eliminated.[9] A Reuters article has also stated that the plan would eliminate taxes on overseas profits for businesses.[10]"

I'm assuming Ryan is assuming that removing these deductions/exemptions/subsidies would account for increased revenue? Would these deductions also include the ones that the lower and middle class rely on?

"The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) did an analysis of the resolution (a less rigorous evaluation than full scoring of legislation), estimating that the Path would balance the budget by 2030 and reduce the level of debt held by the public to 10% GDP by 2050, vs. 62% in 2010. The Path assumes revenue collection of 19% GDP after 2022, up from the current 15% GDP and closer to the historical average of 18.3% GDP. A grouping of spending categories called "Other Mandatory and Defense and Non-Defense Discretionary spending" would be reduced from 12% GDP in 2010 to 3.5% by 2050."

I'm OK with this. I'm not OK with 65-year-olds (on average) paying up to 68% of their health costs. They're going to do this how? Off of their social security and 401k?

I can see how his plan would work. But I can also see the potential for devastation.
 
2012-08-13 11:35:44 AM

Diogenes: mrshowrules: Diogenes: Aarontology: I do not envy anyone living in Florida.

The next few months are going to be nothing but Ryan's budget will kill your medicare and social security ads.

It's been pretty bad so far. We have an election tomorrow. I expect no less than 6 political robocalls just from local races this evening.

I recommend that Liberal Americans wanting to avoid this come up and visit Canada, and on the freak chance Romney wins it will be a good opportunity to get the paperwork started so you don't have to go back.

I like Kingston. I almost went to Queen's U.

But I think the more accurate term is "Sane Americans." I don't like getting no-opt-out political propoganda calls from liberal politicians, either. I can consider it an invasion of privacy. If I want to know about you, I'll tune in the news or look up your site.


We have our fun with robocalls in Canada. Here the Conservative party calls you at 3AM pretending to be the Liberal party to piss you off so you will vote Conservative. It worked pretty well actually.
 
2012-08-13 11:37:25 AM
small business owners (typically low millionaires) should be given some relief, whether it's tax incentives towards re-investment, or whatever

Capital expenditures, employee wages and benefits, and other forms of reinvestment are already tax deductible. If "reinvestment" - which is a meaningless buzz word - is financially beneficial, they'll do it. More supply-side benefits don't touch demand. Oh, I have a factory with idle capacity because people aren't buying my widgets? Well, golly, lowering the taxes on my profits by ten percentage points will certainly fix that problem.
 
2012-08-13 11:41:54 AM

xanadian: can see item #4 being a road to combining Medicare with Medicaid, if Ryan's budget hands Medicare over to the states. It would mean only ONE bureau dealing with health care instead of two. I can see that working, as long as it doesn't negatively impact the beneficiaries.

I also see tort reform in his plan. I'm okay with this


Ryan's plan for Medicare is to keep it the same for people who get in before 2022. Anyone who's eligible after 2022 would instead recieve a government voucher to purchase private insurance. The amount of the inflate in relation to the consumer price index, not the higher rate which the costs of healthcare rises at. So the voucher will start out purchasing the same amount of health care, but as time goes by, they'll be worse less and less.

As for tort reform, several states have enacted it and it hasn't dropped costs. IIRC, lawsuits account for something like 2% of the total amount of money spend on health care. And even if Congress and the President passed tort reform, it would only apply to malpractice cases that were filed in the federal court system instead of a state court, or in other words, almost never.
 
2012-08-13 11:54:52 AM

sweetmelissa31: xanadian: Does anyone have a trustworthy link to *exactly* what's in Ryan's budget plan? I don't want it boiled down by some CNN analyst or Faux News pundit, either.

In PDF format

The first bullet point would be cuts made for the first year, and the second would be cuts made the second year.

For me the thing that matters immediately is the 19% cut to the NIH, because I'm a cancer researcher and my funding comes from there.


why the fark would you be trying to improve cancer
 
2012-08-13 11:55:46 AM
Well it's a PLAN! At least he has a PLAN unlike the Democrats who have no PLAN! Derp!
 
2012-08-13 11:57:22 AM
Depends on who is doing the telling. If it's libitards, the Ryan budget requires everyone over age 60 to have two toes removed to be later attached to a rich person's foot.
 
2012-08-13 11:57:38 AM
"Wait. It cuts what? No. I'm white. WHITE. There must be some mistake. Are you sure? For white people too? That can't be right. I don't believe it. I'm going to check with Fox, they'll tell me the truth. Liar."
 
2012-08-13 11:58:27 AM

Karac: As for tort reform, several states have enacted it and it hasn't dropped costs.


Next you'll tell me there's no voter fraud.
 
2012-08-13 11:58:51 AM

Irving Maimway: Once you hear about free birth control, insurance till 26,mammograms, and what not, people immediately change their minds.

Marketing works.


Marketing works, but sooner or later you have to produce results.

www.myqwip.com(click on image to vote)
 
2012-08-13 11:58:53 AM
"We've replaced this relatively-reasonable federal budget with HERPITY DERPY DERPY DOOO. Let's see if anyone notices..."
 
2012-08-13 11:59:38 AM
Ryan needs to come out and tell the old people that he has their back, it's the younger generation that he wants to kill medicare for.
 
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