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(News9 Oklahoma)   Not news: Bake sale and yard sale for dying vet so he can see Vietnam memorial. News: Enough money is raised to go. Fark: Enough to go AND pay for his medical bills   (news9.com) divider line 11
    More: Spiffy, bake sales, Vietnam, cancers, Oklahoma  
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4778 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Aug 2012 at 8:24 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-12 11:23:01 PM
2 votes:

Kit Fister: Marcintosh: Kit Fister: Doc Daneeka: In most developed countries, it would be inconceivable and barbaric for any person, much less a veteran, to have to rely on charity to pay necessary medical expenses.

America, Fark Yea

Again, I have to ask: who would pay for it?

It may seem heartless to ask this, but seriously, what's the difference between asking taxpayers to pony up to cover treatment, and asking for volunteers to help pay for it? At least those who are giving to help do so after being asked, rather than simply being forced into it.

This guy is sick and needed help, beyond the level of the VA, and presumably he didn't have access to medicare/medicaid. I'm all for relieving him of his burden to help him.

but even in these other developed countries you speak of, the money comes from somewhere.

We could change this - by moving the big red slice's boarders together a bit more.

I generally agree with you, but the cash is still coming out of someone's pocket, and shouldn't we be doing this anyway to more quickly pay down our deficit and pay off our debt?

Also, while I love the military, I think we can most effectively do this if we stop stationing our military all over the world and stop fighting other people's wars/getting involved in shiat that's none of our business. Let someone else deal with the world's problems for a while.

That said, having been in the position of owing over 100k in medical bills because insurance refused to cover most of my shiat, I would love to see the cost of healthcare drop/a better solution come along. I don't think having government manage it is the answer (look at the DMV, the TSA, the general statement of quality of VA medical care, and so on, then tell me you REALLY want our government administering general healthcare...)


To answer your question free of political bias: Charities just can't cover it, because people just won't. No matter where or when you look, in history or in modern times, other countries or this one, wherever the government keeps its hands off healthcare--and public welfare spending in general--and allows charities to pick up the slack--there is no public welfare spending and the poor and needy suffer terribly.

The Roman Empire knew this--they had (for the time) comparatively high taxes, which went in part to paying for public education, public hospitals, roads, the Roman equivalent of food stamps, (aka "bread and circuses") and all the things the Judean People's Front of Judea didn't think were important. Post-Rome, when local governments lacked the ability to enforce taxes and let the nascent Church take care of the poor, very little got done except at the local level, mostly because the local priests and monks could guilt-trip people into tithing; but on a large scale, people starved and died at the whim of their local baron.

At the height of the British Empire, social services were abysmal, because the British government's view was precisely that the government wasn't in the business of helping its citizens out, and charities should do the work. They also held the opinion that providing assistance would encourage people not to work and rely on their government for handouts--the result was a series of famines in India, where the Royal Governor refused to either request relief or even suspend taxes. Similar famines occurred in other colonies. During the Irish Potato Famine, the government was of the opinion the Church should pick up the tab (they couldn't); after the Crimean War, wounded soldiers could go to the workhouse if their church couldn't provide for them. (intaglio versions of Rome and Britain, but you get the idea) (I'm sure I'm wrong on the details, so STFU for gods' sake)

Basically, UNLESS the government steps in and helps out, charities cannot provide the care, because they lack the additional support structures needed to bring aid to the needy. In addition, charities usually help their own, but vanishingly few can or will provide help to anyone who asks. Mormon charities are actually pretty amazing--if you are a Mormon. Catholic charities are better, but have a marked preference for aiding Catholic or at least Christian supplicants. And in either case, charities fluctuate at the whim of the economy--bad economy = fewer donations = fewer people who can be helped, at a time when more people are going to need help.

Since a government can compel payment to social services by way of taxes and allocations, only a government can tax and spend for the good of ALL people. Asking people to voluntarily dig into their pockets to help the needy means that most people will take the stance "I worked for what I have, let them work for theirs!" or whichever bootstrappy slogan is in vogue that decade.

If you really want to fix the situation, the fix is at the top end--taxation and allocation of money--not to make everyone raise money from willing volunteers and bake sales.
2012-08-12 08:55:42 PM
2 votes:
Too bad he didn't get to live in a country where he didn't have to rely on charity to pay his medical bills.
2012-08-12 08:53:51 PM
2 votes:

Captain James T. Smirk: "I really can't say how much I appreciate the people in Oklahoma"

This marks the first time in recorded history that these words were spoken without sarcasm.

In all seriousness, great story.


I hear Oklahoma is OK
2012-08-13 07:50:34 AM
1 votes:
In Paul Ryan's playbook, the kindness shown to Dennis Hall ... would be **demeaning**
2012-08-12 10:36:45 PM
1 votes:
store.afa-online.org
2012-08-12 10:27:14 PM
1 votes:
We need bake sales and yard sales to raise money for medical care for our veterans? What a supremely farked up country I live in. I am deeply ashamed.
2012-08-12 10:05:46 PM
1 votes:

Kit Fister: Doc Daneeka: In most developed countries, it would be inconceivable and barbaric for any person, much less a veteran, to have to rely on charity to pay necessary medical expenses.

America, Fark Yea


Again, I have to ask: who would pay for it?

It may seem heartless to ask this, but seriously, what's the difference between asking taxpayers to pony up to cover treatment, and asking for volunteers to help pay for it? At least those who are giving to help do so after being asked, rather than simply being forced into it.

This guy is sick and needed help, beyond the level of the VA, and presumably he didn't have access to medicare/medicaid. I'm all for relieving him of his burden to help him.


but even in these other developed countries you speak of, the money comes from somewhere.


We could change this - vis.berkeley.edu by moving the big red slice's boarders together a bit more.
2012-08-12 09:38:43 PM
1 votes:
In most developed countries, it would be inconceivable and barbaric for any person, much less a veteran, to have to rely on charity to pay necessary medical expenses.

America, Fark Yea
2012-08-12 09:21:53 PM
1 votes:

sammiejunkmail: OK, OK, I had no idea it was so bad at the veterans hospitals. sorry at least he got the bills paid.


I really don't understand why people have such poor opinions of VA hospitals. My family had a ton of experience with the VA hospital in Birmingham, AL last summer when my dad was being treated for terminal cancer . When they realized it was terminal, they sent him to the palliative care unit of the hospital until he was stabilized and then they arranged for him to have hospice care in his home. He didn't have to pay for a thing. He had a nurse on call, a hospital bed, ramps, wheelchair, all sorts of things. And of course all the medicine that he needed. And he was only in the military for a minute. Less than 2 years. Not a retiree and his condition was absolutely not service connected.

I would think that all the VA hospitals have a standard of care that is the same across the board, but I guess that's not true. All I know is the Birmingham VA hospital was fantastic.
2012-08-12 09:02:27 PM
1 votes:

sammiejunkmail: He is a vet, shouldn't he be going to the vetrans hospital? How does he have any medical bills? But anyway good on him.


Never been to a vet hospital, have you? It's a half step up from a county hospital.

farkityfarker: Too bad he didn't get to live in a country where he didn't have to rely on charity to pay his medical bills.


Amen to that.
2012-08-12 08:46:38 PM
1 votes:
"I really can't say how much I appreciate the people in Oklahoma"

This marks the first time in recorded history that these words were spoken without sarcasm.

In all seriousness, great story.
 
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