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(Sun Sentinel)   HOAs are starting to foreclose on the big banks. Nobody told me this was backwards day   (sun-sentinel.com ) divider line
    More: Florida, subprime mortgage crisis, community association, Pembroke Pines, homeowners associations, Deutsche Bank  
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15656 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Aug 2012 at 1:27 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



119 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-08-12 12:02:05 PM  
It's like Hitler vs Stalin. Let's just sit this one out until they're both weakened enough to no longer be a threat.
 
2012-08-12 12:28:05 PM  
Anthony DiMarco, executive vice president of government affairs for the Florida Bankers Association, said he's not aware of banks not paying maintenance fees on foreclosed properties.

He's also not aware that Florida gets warm weather or that gravity exists.
 
2012-08-12 12:47:27 PM  
I....I....I thought HOA's were useless wastes of time. My world...up...side....down....what....*gasp*....*thud*
 
2012-08-12 01:00:03 PM  
If the banks win I'll be taking notes because I hate HOAs.
 
2012-08-12 01:07:01 PM  
"They expect payment from their customers, but once they become our customers, they don't want to pay us," said Marc Lebron, treasurer of the Southbridge HOA. "It's ironic, isn't it?"

Ironic? it's precisely the kind of behavior we've come to expect from those shifty bastards.
 
2012-08-12 01:15:09 PM  
But wharrgarbl HOAs are TEH DEBBIL!!!111 one oen
 
2012-08-12 01:19:24 PM  
As a former president and vice president of an HOA, let me say this...Banning all HOAs would be one of the most beneficial things for all property owners. The benefits they offer are greatly overshadowed by the sheer evil they perpetrate. I will never live in another area that's controlled by an HOA.

The sad thing is, the HOA I was a part of was rather benign, mostly due to the people on the board. The HOA management company on the other hand, were nothing but a bunch of deceitful snakes in the grass.
 
2012-08-12 01:30:55 PM  
FTA: Deutsche Bank contends that it's only a trustee for the legal owner, investors of mortgage-backed securities. The loan servicer - a separate company that collects payments from borrowers - is legally responsible for paying the HOAs, said Duncan King, a spokesman for Deutsche Bank.

"We don't own," King said. "We are the trustee. We don't have an economic interest in the property."



Duncan King is a filthy farking liar, who killed a girl in the 1980s.
 
2012-08-12 01:33:09 PM  
>Anthony DiMarco, executive vice president of government affairs for the Florida Bankers Association, said he's not aware of banks not paying maintenance fees on foreclosed properties.

If you keep your head in the sand you'll only see what you want to see. Banks have, for the most part, claimed that they do not have to pay HOA dues on properties they have foreclosed on (which is false), and if they are dragging finalizing, well...sucks to be them. The clock for the new owner starts at the time and hour of foreclosure.

They have their own rules about the health of the HOA, and now they are getting caught in it...caveat emptor.
 
2012-08-12 01:34:14 PM  

John Dewey: I....I....I thought HOA's were useless wastes of time. My world...up...side....down....what....*gasp*....*thud*


HOA's are horrible, oppressive regimes for anyone who wants their neighborhood to look like an Appalachian holler.
 
2012-08-12 01:34:32 PM  
I know we can't post numbers and things like that here, so I'll just post this:

https://www.db.com/medien/en/content/3862_4150.htm
 
2012-08-12 01:36:21 PM  
If having the banks fight HOAs results in case law that neuters HOAs, I'm rooting for the banks.

I refuse to live anywhere that has an HOA. This means that about 90% of the properties I might consider buying are off the table, and close to 100% of anything that's actually convenient. HOAs are a cancer.
 
2012-08-12 01:36:34 PM  
If the banks paid dues on all the foreclosed properties in my neighborhood we'd be able to have the pool open all week and keep the trees trimmed and lawns beautiful. As it stands now we can't even fix leaky roofs.
 
2012-08-12 01:37:47 PM  

Allen. The end.: I know we can't post numbers and things like that here, so I'll just post this:

https://www.db.com/medien/en/content/3862_4150.htm


And we're supposed to do what with that personal contact info, exactly?
 
2012-08-12 01:39:50 PM  
"We don't own," King said. "We are the trustee. We don't have an economic interest in the property."

So someone is paying you, Deutsche Bank, to protect their investment, and you are jeopardizing their investment. I would figure that if your failure to pay HOA fees led to the loss of property, the original property owners might sue you.

Sue you into the poor house, I'd be hoping.
 
2012-08-12 01:40:12 PM  
cdn.instructables.com
 
HBK
2012-08-12 01:42:49 PM  

PacManDreaming: As a former president and vice president of an HOA, let me say this...Banning all HOAs would be one of the most beneficial things for all property owners. The benefits they offer are greatly overshadowed by the sheer evil they perpetrate. I will never live in another area that's controlled by an HOA.

The sad thing is, the HOA I was a part of was rather benign, mostly due to the people on the board. The HOA management company on the other hand, were nothing but a bunch of deceitful snakes in the grass.


For some communities, HOAs are a necessary evil. For example, in condos and townhomes the HOAs are responsible for maintenance of any common areas and for making sure the exterior of the homes don't fall into disrepair.

For suburban neighborhoods, HOAs may be responsible for mowing and watering the parks and road medians.

Outside of general maintenance, HOAs are worthless pieces of garbage manned by busybody housewives and small-dicked men who feel empowered and entitled by the mere fact that they were elected to a position nobody else wanted. If you are so troubled by a garage sale sign posted for half a day that you feel the need to break it in half and put it in your trunk, you must have a sad, boring life and a shiatty job.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-08-12 01:43:16 PM  
If having the banks fight HOAs results in case law that neuters HOAs, I'm rooting for the banks.

It might make banks afraid to finance properties with HOAs. In the long term the effect is similar: there is a disincentive to form an HOA.
 
2012-08-12 01:43:44 PM  
img689.imageshack.us
 
2012-08-12 01:45:12 PM  
The long-term result is that banks will look less favorably on mortgages where an HOA is involved and then HOAS will need to get in touch with reality as the resale market for them evaporates.

/sounds like a win/win
 
2012-08-12 01:45:33 PM  
This is like when UGA plays Alabama. The only possible good outcome involves a tragic blimp accident.
 
2012-08-12 01:46:27 PM  
Man, I hope they both lose.
 
2012-08-12 01:46:56 PM  
There's no one to root for in this fight. I'm getting some ice cream instead.
 
2012-08-12 01:47:31 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Allen. The end.: I know we can't post numbers and things like that here, so I'll just post this:

https://www.db.com/medien/en/content/3862_4150.htm

And we're supposed to do what with that personal contact info, exactly?


Oh, I dunno. Just being lazy and cranky on a Sunday, sorry.
 
2012-08-12 01:47:40 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: HOA's are horrible, oppressive regimes for anyone who wants their neighborhood to look like an Appalachian holler. doesn't mind living next to minorities or people who actually work for a living


FTFY
 
2012-08-12 01:49:32 PM  
I don't even know who to support on this one.
 
2012-08-12 01:51:57 PM  
FTA: Lebron, the Southbridge treasurer, said owners in his development are paying about $260 a month. He estimates the fees would be 25 percent lower if the association didn't face so many delinquencies.

Has anyone ever lived anywhere where the fees actually went down?
 
2012-08-12 01:55:05 PM  
Talk about mixed feelings, hate Big Banks and HOAs, the only ones that will make out are the lawyers, as usual.
 
2012-08-12 01:55:58 PM  
I never thought I'd support an HOA, but in this case they are right.
 
2012-08-12 01:56:16 PM  
I've lived in 2 communities with HOA's and I've never had a problem with them. Maybe I'm just lucky.

The only thing I ran into with my old one was I had to get approval before installing an air conditioner which took about 5 minutes of me writing a letter and having the president sign it. Then we had to make sure the unit was hidden in bushes and the wiring/piping/ducting whatever it is was covered by a fake gutter painted the color of the unit. We also added a water spigot (for some reason ours didn't have one) and we had to paint it the color of the unit. Neither of these things were a big deal and I could have cared less.

In my current one, we let our lawn go months without mowing when we first moved in because our sod was setting in and no one said a thing. Guess we're just lucky.

Of course it seems stupid that way pay $60 a month for nothing, but meh.
 
2012-08-12 01:59:03 PM  
I live in a 1960's HOA with $72/yr fees.

The HOA cleans up medians, keeps the mailboxes all the same size and painted black. When people bought they agreed to a covenant to not keep boats, trailers or motorhomes on site for more than a week. Also, no HAM radio antennas.Sound evil? We get a little news letter and those out of compliance get dirty note.

FTA $25,000+ in fees for 3 years, that is farking crazy.
 
2012-08-12 02:01:56 PM  
Bank to homeowner: "Ha ha! You missed a few payments now we get to keep all the payments you have made thus far and the house."

Bank to HOA: "We don't own the property! Thousands of people and entities around the world own it!"
 
2012-08-12 02:02:22 PM  

HBK: For some communities, HOAs are a necessary evil. For example, in condos and townhomes the HOAs are responsible for maintenance of any common areas and for making sure the exterior of the homes don't fall into disrepair.


Yep, the HOA I was a part of was in a private town home community. We were responsible for repair, lawn/tree maintenance, garbage collection and the like. The management company was always trying to get us to enact anything that would make them money.

If someone was behind on dues, the management company pretty much had their hands tied on what they did to get their money. They wanted us to pass some new crap that allowed them to, as their representative told us "foreclose on those who are late on their dues, but it's not really foreclosure, it's actually just a lien". Nope, it was really for real foreclosure as in they could take your house from you for not paying HOA dues. Like I said, deceitful snakes in the grass.

As a side note, the only reason I was on the board is because board elections happened the month I moved in and I didn't really know what was going on. Glad I did serve on the board, though, it let me know exactly what horrible things HOAs really are.
 
2012-08-12 02:03:26 PM  

PacManDreaming: As a former president and vice president of an HOA, let me say this...Banning all HOAs would be one of the most beneficial things for all property owners. The benefits they offer are greatly overshadowed by the sheer evil they perpetrate. I will never live in another area that's controlled by an HOA.

The sad thing is, the HOA I was a part of was rather benign, mostly due to the people on the board. The HOA management company on the other hand, were nothing but a bunch of deceitful snakes in the grass.


We must be neighbors! My HOA is pretty tame, but the for hire coont that managed it was a whore of Satan. She sent most of her day driving around making notes of what was wrong - the garbage man came by at 10 AM and at noon (I was at work until 6 PM) she comes by and writes us up for leaving our garbage cans outside. I talked to some of the Board members but they seemed afraid of her. Finally I got a few guys together and we went to the Board meeting and ousted here. Took a lot of research, but one of our neighbors was an ex military intel guy and another is a forensic accountant. The intel guy dug up some previous and dubious work history on her - one of the items in the Charter said that not only must paint colors be approved but the paint had to be bought from one particular store. He discovered the store was owned by her brother i law. I don't think anyone actually bought their paint there anyway, but it made for good theater. And the forensic accountant used a bunch of big words about the budget that scared everyone. Now we live peaceably amongst each other as all mankind should.
 
2012-08-12 02:03:29 PM  
As much as I dislike some of the shenanigans the banks are involved in I'm gonna have to say fark the HOA with a hot curling iron lubed with sand.
 
2012-08-12 02:04:06 PM  
I really don't know who to root for in this case. I agree with rwhamann, just let them take each other down while we watch. It's a better spectacle than a bug zapper and a case of PBR.
 
2012-08-12 02:11:09 PM  

kidsizedcoffin: owners in his development are paying about $260 a month


For that much, I could get all my maintenance done by girls in bikinis who would also keep me supplied with cold beer.

ranchguy: Also, no HAM radio antennas.Sound evil?


No, sounds like federal jurisdiction. Most HAMs wouldn't bother to pick a fight and just live elsewhere.
 
2012-08-12 02:11:12 PM  

ranchguy: I live in a 1960's HOA with $72/yr fees.

The HOA cleans up medians, keeps the mailboxes all the same size and painted black. When people bought they agreed to a covenant to not keep boats, trailers or motorhomes on site for more than a week. Also, no HAM radio antennas.Sound evil? We get a little news letter and those out of compliance get dirty note.

FTA $25,000+ in fees for 3 years, that is farking crazy.


I'd hate to live somewhere where mail boxes could be different sizes. Nothing repels socialism like mindless submission to authority.
 
2012-08-12 02:12:36 PM  

Rozinante: kidsizedcoffin: owners in his development are paying about $260 a month

For that much, I could get all my maintenance done by girls in bikinis who would also keep me supplied with cold beer.


I never realized that was an option.
 
2012-08-12 02:12:46 PM  
The most hilarious thing about HOAs is that they're government in every meaningful sense of the word, largely set up by people who claim to hate government.

The IRS will come a-knockin' if you don't pay your income taxes, but they won't try to take away your house if it's painted the wrong goddamn color.
 
2012-08-12 02:14:51 PM  

ranchguy: I live in a 1960's HOA with $72/yr fees.

The HOA cleans up medians, keeps the mailboxes all the same size and painted black. When people bought they agreed to a covenant to not keep boats, trailers or motorhomes on site for more than a week. Also, no HAM radio antennas.Sound evil? We get a little news letter and those out of compliance get dirty note.

FTA $25,000+ in fees for 3 years, that is farking crazy.


I doubt that it is on just one house, Albert.
 
2012-08-12 02:16:32 PM  
banks will just pass on the anal rape onto us....so I hope banks win!
 
2012-08-12 02:17:24 PM  
Ooh, an HOA AND big banks thread. *gets popcorn*
 
2012-08-12 02:18:49 PM  

rwhamann: It's like Hitler vs Stalin. Let's just sit this one out until they're both weakened enough to no longer be a threat.


I like the way you think.
 
2012-08-12 02:21:03 PM  

coco ebert: *gets popcorn*


If you leave any unpopped kernels or the bag/bucket in this thread, you will be charged $500 and Fark closed to your account.
 
2012-08-12 02:21:24 PM  

kidsizedcoffin: FTA: Lebron, the Southbridge treasurer, said owners in his development are paying about $260 a month. He estimates the fees would be 25 percent lower if the association didn't face so many delinquencies.

Has anyone ever lived anywhere where the fees actually went down?


Ours went down from $200/yr to $150 last year. More houses were added to the development and they brought the price down.
 
2012-08-12 02:21:38 PM  
Laugh at the rattlesnake killing the rabbit. That's funny until it bites your child.
 
2012-08-12 02:23:03 PM  

Rodeodoc: PacManDreaming: As a former president and vice president of an HOA, let me say this...Banning all HOAs would be one of the most beneficial things for all property owners. The benefits they offer are greatly overshadowed by the sheer evil they perpetrate. I will never live in another area that's controlled by an HOA.

The sad thing is, the HOA I was a part of was rather benign, mostly due to the people on the board. The HOA management company on the other hand, were nothing but a bunch of deceitful snakes in the grass.

We must be neighbors! My HOA is pretty tame, but the for hire coont that managed it was a whore of Satan. She sent most of her day driving around making notes of what was wrong - the garbage man came by at 10 AM and at noon (I was at work until 6 PM) she comes by and writes us up for leaving our garbage cans outside. I talked to some of the Board members but they seemed afraid of her. Finally I got a few guys together and we went to the Board meeting and ousted here. Took a lot of research, but one of our neighbors was an ex military intel guy and another is a forensic accountant. The intel guy dug up some previous and dubious work history on her - one of the items in the Charter said that not only must paint colors be approved but the paint had to be bought from one particular store. He discovered the store was owned by her brother i law. I don't think anyone actually bought their paint there anyway, but it made for good theater. And the forensic accountant used a bunch of big words about the budget that scared everyone. Now we live peaceably amongst each other as all mankind should.


that's a hell of a team you had there to oust the old bitty. it sounds like all you were missing were a master of disguise and a likable black muscleman with an afro mohawk...

i jest, but glad to know some people are winning against HOA's. I don't have one myself, and I am having a hard time finding a new place that isn't spoiled by one.
 
2012-08-12 02:24:42 PM  

kidsizedcoffin: Rozinante: kidsizedcoffin: owners in his development are paying about $260 a month

For that much, I could get all my maintenance done by girls in bikinis who would also keep me supplied with cold beer.

I never realized that was an option.


Now I had to look it up.

One place in Kansas City:
Mowing Service- $75 per 1/4 acre which includes: mow, weed eat, and remove grass from sidewalks and driveways. Bagged grass add $10.

Another place in Arkansas: $45 weekly. That's almost worth it.
 
2012-08-12 02:24:44 PM  
Anyone know what Sherman is up to? He could solve this problem.
 
2012-08-12 02:27:05 PM  
I really never thought I would see the day that I night root for a bank, but emasculating HOA's is a worthy goal. Mine is only $25 a month, but still the tin-horn dictators and drama queens drive me nuts. I really don't care what you are doing on your property, as long as it's mostly legal, so leave me and my shrubs that are 3 inches too high alone. Run a start-up business, park a vehicle off the concrete, let the kids play in the front yard, it doesn't bother me. Hell, a grow op or a brothel wouldn't bother me, as long as the noise ordinances aren't violated.

Yapping, howling dogs all night long or meth labs are probably the only situations I get really bothered by.
 
2012-08-12 02:27:57 PM  
That's actualy pretty damn amusing.

Although I'm not sure how effective it could be...

HOA: Fees past due, we'd like to forclose on this house.
Bank: Sure. And who owns the property?
HOA: You do.
Bank. Oh yes...I see that right here. Good good. Looks like everything is in order, now we just need to send a notice to the owner.
HOA: But you are right here...
Bank: Procedure, my dear boy. We must follow procedure. All forclosures must be mailed.
*two weeks later*
HOA: Well?
Bank: Hmmm. Quite odd. The owner says they never received it. We'll send another notice.
HOA: But...
Bank: Off you go, you little scamp.
*two weeks later*
HOA: Where's our money
Bank: Looks like the owner filed an appeal.
HOA: But-
Bank: I'm sorry, but the board of directors does not feel that this would be a good case to take to court. Too expensive to fight this case. Best try and take it up with the owner personaly.
HOA: But you *ARE* the
Bank: Oops, looks like office hours are over. If you'd like to sheduele (however you say it with a british accent) another visit, please see our front desk.
 
2012-08-12 02:28:52 PM  
I've lived in an HOA that was fairly mellow, we never ran afoul of anything. I think it depends which HOA you live in. Admittedly, the houses were extremely bland and cookie-cutter.

Right now I live in a catch-as-catch can neighborhood, the kind with a shiatty tire-killing street and houses that can be really nice looking, or have an old truck on blocks or all of the kid's toys out front. I think the dude with the 80's Atari-style van may be a drug dealer. However, the neighbors are more friendly here and it's a helluva lot cheaper. People feel free to paint and landscape however they want so the houses have some variation.

In summary, move to the cheaper non-HOA neighborhood because it's more interesting.
 
2012-08-12 02:28:54 PM  
Not quite the same thing, but...

About ten years ago, Bankers Trust, Des Moines' largest bank, was leasing a parcel of land from the Des Moines Catholic diocise and had their drive up banking on the parcel. They paid rent for it annually. Someone forgot to send a check and th diocise started eviction proceedings. Oh, the screams and excuses! "We were only just a little late! The person who normally does that left and the replacement hadn't been trained yet! It's unfai, we've been there for years!"

The diocise let them squirm for a few days, then relented, but raised the rent.
 
2012-08-12 02:32:50 PM  

dragonchild: coco ebert: *gets popcorn*

If you leave any unpopped kernels or the bag/bucket in this thread, you will be charged $500 and Fark closed to your account.


*wipes butter on thread floor*
 
2012-08-12 02:33:05 PM  

Rodeodoc: PacManDreaming: As a former president and vice president of an HOA, let me say this...Banning all HOAs would be one of the most beneficial things for all property owners. The benefits they offer are greatly overshadowed by the sheer evil they perpetrate. I will never live in another area that's controlled by an HOA.

The sad thing is, the HOA I was a part of was rather benign, mostly due to the people on the board. The HOA management company on the other hand, were nothing but a bunch of deceitful snakes in the grass.

We must be neighbors! My HOA is pretty tame, but the for hire coont that managed it was a whore of Satan. She sent most of her day driving around making notes of what was wrong - the garbage man came by at 10 AM and at noon (I was at work until 6 PM) she comes by and writes us up for leaving our garbage cans outside. I talked to some of the Board members but they seemed afraid of her. Finally I got a few guys together and we went to the Board meeting and ousted here. Took a lot of research, but one of our neighbors was an ex military intel guy and another is a forensic accountant. The intel guy dug up some previous and dubious work history on her - one of the items in the Charter said that not only must paint colors be approved but the paint had to be bought from one particular store. He discovered the store was owned by her brother i law. I don't think anyone actually bought their paint there anyway, but it made for good theater. And the forensic accountant used a bunch of big words about the budget that scared everyone. Now we live peaceably amongst each other as all mankind should.


But were you able to find the people who burned you?


geektyrant.com
 
2012-08-12 02:33:05 PM  
I love this type of stuff, don't you?

You buy a house. A 'friendly' bank mortgages it for you. Before the ink dries on your signature, the bank puts the mortgage up for sale to a broker, who buys it and bundles it with other mortgages and sells it to investors interested only in profit.

So, when something happens, the bank jumps on your arse, BUT the bank no longer holds your mortgage, having sold it, yet is acting (for a fee) in the interest of the investors -- who really don't give a shiat about your problems since they never met you.

The investors often will foreclose faster than a bank when they see their profits shrinking. Then you need to make your way through a maze of companies to find out who actually holds your mortgage and is technically responsible for actions against you.

Believe it or not, there was a time when your home town bank mortgaged your home and ACTUALLY held onto the mortgage until it was paid off, being willing to work with you in times of crisis. You often saw your loan officer around town, maybe at church, perhaps even coming into your store. You might even have a beer with him in a bar.

Not today. Corporate handles all and they're usually halfway across the nation from where you live.
I believe Barnett Bank was one of the first to start this stuff to maximize their profits.
 
2012-08-12 02:35:13 PM  

Rozinante: kidsizedcoffin: owners in his development are paying about $260 a month

For that much, I could get all my maintenance done by girls in bikinis who would also keep me supplied with cold beer.

ranchguy: Also, no HAM radio antennas.Sound evil?

No, sounds like federal jurisdiction. Most HAMs wouldn't bother to pick a fight and just live elsewhere.


I wonder if I could find a lawyer HAM operator. Great way to collect their own HOA.
 
2012-08-12 02:36:22 PM  
Deutsche Bank contends that it's only a trustee for the legal owner, investors of mortgage-backed securities. The loan servicer - a separate company that collects payments from borrowers - is legally responsible for paying the HOAs, said Duncan King, a spokesman for Deutsche Bank.

"We don't own," King said. "We are the trustee. We don't have an economic interest in the property."
Makes me think about the plan recently in the news to eminent domain some of these types of mortgages.
 
2012-08-12 02:48:45 PM  
I had a similar issue when I bought my condo two years ago. The hoa fees were behind by about 1,200.00 while the unit sat empty. I was assured it would be dealt with before closing. The bank ended up paying extra to the hoa so my first two months I didn't have to pay.

Only had one issue with the hoa where they told me to remove a storage cabinet from my patio. It's in the garage now.
 
2012-08-12 02:49:54 PM  

rwhamann: It's like Hitler vs Stalin. Let's just sit this one out until they're both weakened enough to no longer be a threat.


Yeah. I'm not sure who to root for here. Is there a viable third-party candidate?
 
2012-08-12 02:52:01 PM  
I hope the HOA wins against the banks, so that hopefully the local governments get the nerve up to take on the banks to start paying all those fees and taxes they keep dodging.

Then I hope the banks take it in turn to refuse to mortgage properties covered by an HOA, thus strangling them into oblivion.

I want them to kill each other. Only good can come from that.

Set one evil against another. It's the right thing to do.
 
2012-08-12 03:00:10 PM  

Kuroshin: Set one evil against another. It's the right thing to do.


Actually, what they wind up doing is finding a helpless third party to collectively attack. You think homeowners will get out of this unscathed?

Take Obamacare. The President threw the idea at a "bipartisan" Senate Committee that shut out the American public. By the time they were done having their way with the thing, what was originally conceived as a "public option" in the HoR turned into the government requiring everyone to buy private health insurance. So. . . the status quo, but worse?

I'm not relieved when two evils go at it like this. I'm terrified when they're even in the same room. HOAs and banks?? You don't want to be around when they start having angry sex.
 
2012-08-12 03:05:34 PM  

dragonchild: Kuroshin: Set one evil against another.
...

I'm not relieved when two evils go at it like this. I'm terrified when they're even in the same room. HOAs and banks?? You don't want to be around when they start having angry sex.


Great. Now I'm picturing the fatass loan officer who did my last mortgage tied up and gagged while some old man spanks her bare ass with his inspection clipboard.
 
2012-08-12 03:05:38 PM  

ZAZ: If having the banks fight HOAs results in case law that neuters HOAs, I'm rooting for the banks.

It might make banks afraid to finance properties with HOAs. In the long term the effect is similar: there is a disincentive to form an HOA.


If it has an effect it will take effect at the developer level. HOAs are established by the developers as a matter of course. In Indianapolis, the ones I saw were directly controlled by the developer until all units were built out, then I think for 6 months afterwards until a new board could be established. Some of the older neighborhoods had disbanded their HOAs or stripped away everything but snow removal, a newsletter and an annual neighborhood garage sale (which didn't prevent anyone from having garage/lawn sales at any other time).

The banks didn't offer the initial financing, it was the developers who used in-house financing (that only offered ARMs) and those mortgages were then resold to big banks. For example, I would go to M/I and their salesperson at the model would try to sell me on buying an ARM, I'd talk with the M/I finance company, they'd rubber stamp the mortgage, and then bundle my built-to-fail mortgage to big banks who wouldn't take the time to verify the creditworthiness of the individual components of the bundle. I'd get a house on a postage-stamp size parcel along side a couple hundred other identical-looking boxes. If a HOA-controlled property represents a larger threat to a bank, they still wouldn't look at the individual loans but they would look at the source and decide against buying the bundle because they are all tied to HOA properties.

That can only be a good outcome because of the 7 different developers I looked at, every single one of them tried to sell me on ARMs and tell me that a clearly sub-prime rate was the only rate their finance company offered.

If the banks refuse to buy mortgages tied to HOA properties, either the developers will have to stop making HOAs standard for starter homes or actually underwrite the mortgages they issue because they will have to hold them long term. And maybe then they won't overbuild like they did this time.
 
2012-08-12 03:09:43 PM  
FTFA: "We don't own," King said. "We are the trustee. We don't have an economic interest in the property."

And that's the biatch of it..... they handed out loans like they were candy but never once had to face any negative consequence when the loans went bad.
 
2012-08-12 03:11:07 PM  

kidsizedcoffin: Has anyone ever lived anywhere where the fees actually went down?


We've been able to keep our HOA's fees unchanged for the last four years running. Not all HOAs are evil.
 
2012-08-12 03:14:55 PM  

SilentOpus: This is like when UGA plays Alabama. The only possible good outcome involves a tragic blimp accident.


Goodyear?
 
2012-08-12 03:17:17 PM  

John Dewey: I....I....I thought HOA's were useless wastes of time. My world...up...side....down....what....*gasp*....*thud*



HOA's what?
 
2012-08-12 03:17:37 PM  

rwhamann: dragonchild: Kuroshin: Set one evil against another.
...

I'm not relieved when two evils go at it like this. I'm terrified when they're even in the same room. HOAs and banks?? You don't want to be around when they start having angry sex.

Great. Now I'm picturing the fatass loan officer who did my last mortgage tied up and gagged while some old man spanks her bare ass with his inspection clipboard.


She's doing your dad.

/your welcome
 
2012-08-12 03:17:48 PM  

pag1107: If the banks paid dues on all the foreclosed properties in my neighborhood we'd be able to have the pool open all week and keep the trees trimmed and lawns beautiful. As it stands now we can't even fix leaky roofs.


Fix your own leaky roof and let the bank worry about their properties.

Charge admission for the pool.

HOAs need to die.
 
2012-08-12 03:21:55 PM  
I know it's futile, but I'm cheering for both of them to lose.
 
2012-08-12 03:30:25 PM  
Once again demonstrating why HOA should be illegal.
 
2012-08-12 03:38:20 PM  
I'll be damn if I ever live in a place where I have to pay my neighbors to tell me what to do and to one day have the "privileged" of them taking my house.
 
2012-08-12 03:38:49 PM  

AbbeySomeone: rwhamann: dragonchild: Kuroshin: Set one evil against another.
...

I'm not relieved when two evils go at it like this. I'm terrified when they're even in the same room. HOAs and banks?? You don't want to be around when they start having angry sex.

Great. Now I'm picturing the fatass loan officer who did my last mortgage tied up and gagged while some old man spanks her bare ass with his inspection clipboard.

She's doing your dad.
Btw, how do you know so much--you behind the camera?
/your welcome


Cool. He's getting some.
 
2012-08-12 03:41:08 PM  

Allen. The end.: FTA: Deutsche Bank contends that it's only a trustee for the legal owner, investors of mortgage-backed securities. The loan servicer - a separate company that collects payments from borrowers - is legally responsible for paying the HOAs, said Duncan King, a spokesman for Deutsche Bank.

"We don't own," King said. "We are the trustee. We don't have an economic interest in the property."



No economic intrest? Then why did they expect payment on the friggin' loan?
 
2012-08-12 03:41:26 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: John Dewey: I....I....I thought HOA's were useless wastes of time. My world...up...side....down....what....*gasp*....*thud*

HOA's are horrible, oppressive regimes for anyone who wants their neighborhood to look like an Appalachian holler.


The view from my front yard in a non- HOA neighborhood in Columbus, OH. Or... What an Appalachian holler might look like.™.
img338.imageshack.us

Again... I wouldn't live in an HOA- managed neighborhood for anything. Oh, and I HAVE lived in an Appalachian holler, back when I was in college/ a few years after- And I'd much rather live there than a suburban HOA.
 
2012-08-12 03:53:06 PM  
Its like Nazis fighting the Al Qaeda, there is just no one to root for.
 
2012-08-12 03:55:11 PM  
"A plage o' both your houses!" -- W.S.
 
2012-08-12 04:00:45 PM  

7th Son of a 7th Son: SilentOpus: This is like when UGA plays Alabama. The only possible good outcome involves a tragic blimp accident.

Goodyear?


The worst.
 
2012-08-12 04:01:38 PM  
I live in a co-op, the Board members are our neighbours, and you have to be approved before you can buy in. It's also a non-profit, so our fees go towards maintenance, water/sewer, and the rest goes towards other projects, like upgrading everyone's driveway

It's pretty relaxed (mostly retirees live here), the basic rules are keep your place in the a state of good repair and don't be a nuisance. The one odd rule I can think if is "no vegetable gardens in the front yard," but I can live with it

/something, something, kick out if the replies
 
2012-08-12 04:04:15 PM  

MooseUpNorth: Man, I hope they both lose.


Yeah, really. I've always wondered what happens when that tail-eating snake gets to its own head, and now we're about to find out.
 
2012-08-12 04:06:55 PM  

RembrandtQEinstein: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: HOA's are horrible, oppressive regimes for anyone who wants their neighborhood to look like an Appalachian holler. doesn't mind living next to minorities or people who actually work for a living

FTFY


Same difference
 
2012-08-12 04:15:33 PM  

kidsizedcoffin: FTA: Lebron, the Southbridge treasurer, said owners in his development are paying about $260 a month. He estimates the fees would be 25 percent lower if the association didn't face so many delinquencies.

Has anyone ever lived anywhere where the fees actually went down?

I did. Under the developer, our HOA fees were $25 a month. Upon transition, the board (of which I was a member) did a budget and realized we had more $ than we needed, so we lowered the dues to $20/month. On the board and off, for the next 12 years, the dues stayed at $20/month. I even built up reserves (twice, because an intervening board squandered them on a stupid management company).
 
2012-08-12 04:18:42 PM  
In a way, I can't understand why - to the best of my knowledge - there isn't an HOA Dissolution Party in the States (or at least a support organisation) with the explicit purpose of removing HOAs from low density housing. Do you guys have anything like that?
 
2012-08-12 04:39:43 PM  
To be as fair as possible, a lot of the issues are not "really" with the HOA. It's with the people who foolishly drafted the Covenants and Conditions with no idea what they were doing.

Take a rule like: "All yards must be kept green and watered and in conformance with HOA appearance guidelines." It doesn't sound too bad. But nobody said at the time, Hey, this is Southern California! What if there's a drought and we get water restrictions? Maybe there should be another clause covering that. So the CCRs are signed and attached to the deeds, and when the drought comes along and yards start to die, there's no way to quickly amend the problem.

Plus, HOAs favor the most petty and evil-minded individuals in the whole neighborhood. Nobody really cares if the neighbor's yard gets a little brown in the heat of summer--except one mean old woman who always has to be in everyone's business and who combs through the CCRs to find a way to attack that person. She's usually the one with the time and energy to go to court every day, so nobody can fight her on her own terms.

We see a lot of these in the small-claims court where I mediate, and the judges know these harridans very well. Often they don't listen to a thing they say, and rule on the merits anyway. But it could have been avoided if the CCRs were drafted better.
 
2012-08-12 04:46:10 PM  

nmemkha: Its like Nazis fighting the Al Qaeda, there is just no one to root for.


Yes there is, the Nazis. Just let 'em do their thing, and in a few years the middle east will be completely sterile.
 
2012-08-12 05:19:28 PM  
Add my name to the list of people that can't decide who to root for. I want to see them both die in a flaming pile of shiat.

If the banks want to sit on a house after a foreclosure and get all clenchy-assed when someone gives a low-ball offer or has less-than-perfect credit, then let them be responsible for their precious "investments". I say they should be held responsible for the damage to the interior as well for not keeping it properly ventilated.
 
2012-08-12 05:28:45 PM  
Can't... figure out... which... to despise... more... ergh*head asplodes*
/the enemy of my enemy is my friend?
 
2012-08-12 05:33:34 PM  
I wonder if the banks are also failing to pay the real estate tax bills.
 
2012-08-12 06:01:53 PM  

rewind2846: /the enemy of my enemy is my friend?


Except they're both your enemies, so if they're enemies they're both enemies of your enemies, making them both your friend, meaning they can't be your enemies which defeats the logic that they could be friends to begin with.
 
2012-08-12 06:07:51 PM  

Tumunga: Allen. The end.: FTA: Deutsche Bank contends that it's only a trustee for the legal owner, investors of mortgage-backed securities. The loan servicer - a separate company that collects payments from borrowers - is legally responsible for paying the HOAs, said Duncan King, a spokesman for Deutsche Bank.

"We don't own," King said. "We are the trustee. We don't have an economic interest in the property."

No economic intrest? Then why did they expect payment on the friggin' loan?


Acting as an agent for the trust that holds it. It's really not that complicated.
 
2012-08-12 06:49:28 PM  
YouSirAreAMaroon
Acting as an agent for the trust that holds it. It's really not that complicated

I'm not a lawyer, but it would seem to me if they can collect income on the property in the trust's name and pass that income along minus a fee, then they can also pay the expenses associated with maintaining that property and pass that cost along, plus a fee.

Of course, that makes far too much sense and is far too equitable to fly in the banking industry.
 
2012-08-12 07:04:01 PM  
Honestly been expecting this, between the housing crash and how many people are getting fed up with HOAs there had to be a fair number that had been foreclosed on and are sitting empty and owned by banks who are generally inclined to spend the least amount the can get away with to maintain the houses the hold in foreclosure.
 
2012-08-12 07:09:33 PM  

Bondith: YouSirAreAMaroon
Acting as an agent for the trust that holds it. It's really not that complicated

I'm not a lawyer, but it would seem to me if they can collect income on the property in the trust's name and pass that income along minus a fee, then they can also pay the expenses associated with maintaining that property and pass that cost along, plus a fee.

Of course, that makes far too much sense and is far too equitable to fly in the banking industry.


Also not a lawyer, but I'm quite familiar with securitizations. I think it depends on what was contemplated by the trust docs and servicing agreement, in most cases nobody ever thought these trusts would hold hard real estate for any length of time.

It's also completely possible that somebody farked up, but in either case the HOA will be made whole at some point as any lien they have has priority over any outstanding mortgages.
 
2012-08-12 07:25:17 PM  
Don't you mean... Opposite Day?
img822.imageshack.us
 
2012-08-12 07:54:13 PM  
There is nothing bad here, one evil greedy entity against the other, either way we win.
 
2012-08-12 07:58:39 PM  
cache.kotaku.com
 
2012-08-12 08:58:37 PM  

cherryl taggart: Yapping, howling dogs all night long or meth labs are probably the only situations I get really bothered by.


Lived across from a meth lab for 3 years. Place was next door to a prostitute and next to *that* place was a drug dealer.

Quiet neighborhood. No major problems.

The prostitute was a nice single mom. The drug dealer was a very kind and funny guy. Any one of them would drop what they were doing to lend a hand if you needed it. Their work-at-home jobs might've been iffy, but this was their home and community. They liked to sit on their porches in the evening, let their kids ride bikes, and bbq in the summer, just like everyone else.

The cops around the corner that took over an empty school for training were more of a nuisance than my neighbors.
 
2012-08-12 09:16:30 PM  
In 20 years of residency, I've lived in two HOAs in Florida, and was on the board of the first, and am the president of the current, which is a zero-lot line community.

For our minimal fee, we water/fertilize/weed control and cut/trim everyone's grass, pressure wash driveways and sidewalks 2x/year, maintain the pool, jacuzzi, clubhouse and all common areas and provide free basic cable.

Over my time here, we've dispatched the tenant that was hoarding cats, changed the behavior of the homeowner that was using his front yard as an auto parts recycling center, corrected the house that got painted flamingo pink with glitter, made an entire cul-de-sac jump with joy when we got the guy with the four poodles to *finally* clean up behind them, and were able to identify and prosecute four separate teenage individuals that were vandalizing their neighbors homes and our common outbuildings.

The list goes on and on, and the only time we even came close to a crisis of any kind or any financial issues were when we had 12% foreclosures, and the banks that owned the houses would not pay the HOA fees (one for 30 months) or maintain the house(s) - which we ultimately did, including the one where the roof partially collapsed - and billed the bank(s) for the time.

The law that passed in Florida to give HOA's this redress was long in coming, and tremendously overdue.

Ask my neighbor that used to live next to 40 cats.
 
2012-08-12 10:52:20 PM  
HOAs vs. Big Banks? I hope both sides lose.
 
2012-08-12 11:37:32 PM  

HBK: For suburban neighborhoods, HOAs may be responsible for mowing and watering the parks and road medians.


Funny, in the country I live in the local council is responsible for that.

Libertarians: making the world a worse place, one mediocre suburban development at a time.
 
HBK
2012-08-13 12:15:39 AM  

ungaio: In 20 years of residency, I've lived in two HOAs in Florida, and was on the board of the first, and am the president of the current, which is a zero-lot line community.

For our minimal fee, we water/fertilize/weed control and cut/trim everyone's grass, pressure wash driveways and sidewalks 2x/year, maintain the pool, jacuzzi, clubhouse and all common areas and provide free basic cable.

Over my time here, we've dispatched the tenant that was hoarding cats, changed the behavior of the homeowner that was using his front yard as an auto parts recycling center, corrected the house that got painted flamingo pink with glitter, made an entire cul-de-sac jump with joy when we got the guy with the four poodles to *finally* clean up behind them, and were able to identify and prosecute four separate teenage individuals that were vandalizing their neighbors homes and our common outbuildings.

The list goes on and on, and the only time we even came close to a crisis of any kind or any financial issues were when we had 12% foreclosures, and the banks that owned the houses would not pay the HOA fees (one for 30 months) or maintain the house(s) - which we ultimately did, including the one where the roof partially collapsed - and billed the bank(s) for the time.

The law that passed in Florida to give HOA's this redress was long in coming, and tremendously overdue.

Ask my neighbor that used to live next to 40 cats.


You sound like quite the busy body. Live and let live. Why does it matter to you what color someone wants to paint their house? And the forty cats? That sounds like an SPCA problem rather than yours. It's not your property.
 
2012-08-13 12:20:02 AM  

HBK: ungaio: In 20 years of residency, I've lived in two HOAs in Florida, and was on the board of the first, and am the president of the current, which is a zero-lot line community.

For our minimal fee, we water/fertilize/weed control and cut/trim everyone's grass, pressure wash driveways and sidewalks 2x/year, maintain the pool, jacuzzi, clubhouse and all common areas and provide free basic cable.

Over my time here, we've dispatched the tenant that was hoarding cats, changed the behavior of the homeowner that was using his front yard as an auto parts recycling center, corrected the house that got painted flamingo pink with glitter, made an entire cul-de-sac jump with joy when we got the guy with the four poodles to *finally* clean up behind them, and were able to identify and prosecute four separate teenage individuals that were vandalizing their neighbors homes and our common outbuildings.

The list goes on and on, and the only time we even came close to a crisis of any kind or any financial issues were when we had 12% foreclosures, and the banks that owned the houses would not pay the HOA fees (one for 30 months) or maintain the house(s) - which we ultimately did, including the one where the roof partially collapsed - and billed the bank(s) for the time.

The law that passed in Florida to give HOA's this redress was long in coming, and tremendously overdue.

Ask my neighbor that used to live next to 40 cats.

You sound like quite the busy body. Live and let live. Why does it matter to you what color someone wants to paint their house? And the forty cats? That sounds like an SPCA problem rather than yours. It's not your property.


The poodle guy, however, was fair game.
 
2012-08-13 12:52:44 AM  
The banks will win this one....they actually OWN AND POSSESS THE TITLE to these foreclosed properties....the HOA can only physically take the property. And it was the homeowner...not the bank....that has the agreement with the HOA

The banks have much more capital to drag these HOA land-grabs in court....most HOAs in FL are bankrupt...or near it. The banks will financially drain them in the courts
 
2012-08-13 05:24:54 AM  

DancingElkCondor: The banks will win this one....they actually OWN AND POSSESS THE TITLE to these foreclosed properties....the HOA can only physically take the property. And it was the homeowner...not the bank....that has the agreement with the HOA

The banks have much more capital to drag these HOA land-grabs in court....most HOAs in FL are bankrupt...or near it. The banks will financially drain them in the courts


So is that a bad thing or a good thing?
 
2012-08-13 10:18:33 AM  
In 20 years of residency, I've lived in two HOAs in Florida, and was on the board of the first, and am the president of the current, which is a zero-lot line community.

For our minimal fee, we water/fertilize/weed control and cut/trim everyone's grass, pressure wash driveways and sidewalks 2x/year, maintain the pool, jacuzzi, clubhouse and all common areas and provide free basic cable.

Over my time here, we've dispatched the tenant that was hoarding cats, changed the behavior of the homeowner that was using his front yard as an auto parts recycling center, corrected the house that got painted flamingo pink with glitter, made an entire cul-de-sac jump with joy when we got the guy with the four poodles to *finally* clean up behind them, and were able to identify and prosecute four separate teenage individuals that were vandalizing their neighbors homes and our common outbuildings.

The list goes on and on, and the only time we even came close to a crisis of any kind or any financial issues were when we had 12% foreclosures, and the banks that owned the houses would not pay the HOA fees (one for 30 months) or maintain the house(s) - which we ultimately did, including the one where the roof partially collapsed - and billed the bank(s) for the time.

The law that passed in Florida to give HOA's this redress was long in coming, and tremendously overdue.

Ask my neighbor that used to live next to 40 cats.


You sound like quite the busy body. Live and let live. Why does it matter to you what color someone wants to paint their house? And the forty cats? That sounds like an SPCA problem rather than yours. It's not your property.

And you sound like you've never lived in a zero-lot line neighborhood in Florida.
 
2012-08-13 10:25:09 AM  
"We don't own," King said. "We are the trustee. We don't have an economic interest in the property."


to quote Carol Kane...

LI-AR!!

/have fun storming the castle.
 
2012-08-13 10:26:49 AM  

ungaio: You sound like quite the busy body. Live and let live. Why does it matter to you what color someone wants to paint their house? And the forty cats? That sounds like an SPCA problem rather than yours. It's not your property.

And you sound like you've never lived in a zero-lot line neighborhood in Florida.


Zero lot line is just stupid. It's your own damn fault for getting yourself into that situation. Zero lot line benefits nobody but the developers, so they can cram more shiatty houses on that pile of shiatty land and then they leave you to deal with the ramifications. If you don't want to be touching your neighbor's house you should have farking thought about that before signing onto the deed. It's not like there's any shortage of cheap housing in Fluoridia right now.
 
HBK
2012-08-13 07:50:10 PM  

DancingElkCondor: The banks will win this one....they actually OWN AND POSSESS THE TITLE to these foreclosed properties....the HOA can only physically take the property. And it was the homeowner...not the bank....that has the agreement with the HOA


Thanks for showing everybody that you have no idea how covenants or ownership work.
 
2012-08-13 09:46:55 PM  

cig-mkr: Talk about mixed feelings, hate Big Banks and HOAs, the only ones that will make out are the lawyers, as usual.


As a lawyer and HOA officer, allow me to cackle maniacally.

/goes back to polishing jackboots and sharpening his lawn-ruler...
 
2012-08-13 09:50:25 PM  

PacManDreaming: HBK: For some communities, HOAs are a necessary evil. For example, in condos and townhomes the HOAs are responsible for maintenance of any common areas and for making sure the exterior of the homes don't fall into disrepair.

Yep, the HOA I was a part of was in a private town home community. We were responsible for repair, lawn/tree maintenance, garbage collection and the like. The management company was always trying to get us to enact anything that would make them money.

If someone was behind on dues, the management company pretty much had their hands tied on what they did to get their money. They wanted us to pass some new crap that allowed them to, as their representative told us "foreclose on those who are late on their dues, but it's not really foreclosure, it's actually just a lien". Nope, it was really for real foreclosure as in they could take your house from you for not paying HOA dues. Like I said, deceitful snakes in the grass.


They may have been snakes, but foreclosure really IS the only weapon most HOAs have, beyond the first couple of stern warnings and the threat of fines...which are backed up by liens, which are backed up by...foreclosure.

Kind of like not having any weapon but a nuke.
 
2012-08-13 09:52:12 PM  

Giltric: As much as I dislike some of the shenanigans the banks are involved in I'm gonna have to say fark the HOA with a hot curling iron lubed with sand.


Yes, how dare they try to enforce a valid contract...
 
2012-08-13 09:54:55 PM  

dragonchild: The most hilarious thing about HOAs is that they're government in every meaningful sense of the word, largely set up by people who claim to hate government.

The IRS will come a-knockin' if you don't pay your income taxes, but they won't try to take away your house if it's painted the wrong goddamn color.


The IRS won't, but your town might, if it's in a historic preservation zone...or someone wants your land for an eminent domain project...or they triple your taxes because they're broke, or...
 
2012-08-13 09:59:49 PM  

rwhamann: dragonchild: Kuroshin: Set one evil against another.
...

I'm not relieved when two evils go at it like this. I'm terrified when they're even in the same room. HOAs and banks?? You don't want to be around when they start having angry sex.

Great. Now I'm picturing the fatass loan officer who did my last mortgage tied up and gagged while some old man spanks her bare ass with his inspection clipboard.


I...have the weirdest boner...
 
2012-08-13 10:02:08 PM  

randomjsa: Once again demonstrating why HOA should be illegal.


What part of "freedom to contract" scares you the most?
 
2012-08-13 10:04:58 PM  

DancingElkCondor: The banks will win this one....they actually OWN AND POSSESS THE TITLE to these foreclosed properties....the HOA can only physically take the property. And it was the homeowner...not the bank....that has the agreement with the HOA

The banks have much more capital to drag these HOA land-grabs in court....most HOAs in FL are bankrupt...or near it. The banks will financially drain them in the courts


You're right about the banks having deeper pockets, but that's about it.
 
2012-08-13 10:09:46 PM  

SomethingToDo: In a way, I can't understand why - to the best of my knowledge - there isn't an HOA Dissolution Party in the States (or at least a support organisation) with the explicit purpose of removing HOAs from low density housing. Do you guys have anything like that?


Because, despite the occasional media horror story, HOAs are legal and voluntary.

Don't like 'em? Don't buy into one.

I've heard stories where HOAs form around existing property, but they've mostly turned out to be B.S., or a case where someone didn't read his deed before he bought. No sympathy there.
 
2012-08-13 10:11:06 PM  

Erebus1954: I wonder if the banks are also failing to pay the real estate tax bills.


In some cases, yes. And some cities and towns are foreclosing on THOSE properties, too. As they should.

Oddly, I don't hear many Farkers calling for a ban on towns...
 
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