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(BBC)   Company tests out new trading software on NYSE floor, a half hour and $440m later they decide they'd probably better stop the test. "There was some problem with the program"   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 72
    More: Fail, high-frequency trading, NYSE, Felix Salmon, strange thing, trading floors, Dow Jones, computer programs  
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3184 clicks; posted to Business » on 12 Aug 2012 at 11:20 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-12 12:16:46 AM
I don't think even James Cameron realized that Skynet was going to be automated traders. But sure as shiat, they'll ruin the world.
 
2012-08-12 12:31:34 AM

Lsherm: I don't think even James Cameron realized that Skynet was going to be automated traders. But sure as shiat, they'll ruin the world.


Nah. Just drive themselves out of business.

At least that's what my contact at Getco thinks.
 
2012-08-12 02:43:17 AM
A 1% transaction tax would solve a lot of problems and raise a lot of revenue.
 
2012-08-12 02:54:38 AM
I knew somebody who worked at GranCo Capital Investment before it was bought out by Cogran Investment Capital. According to him, computer trading will only become dangerous if humans are allowed to continue trading alongside machines, particularly humans who see stock-trading as a stable, long-term investment. GranCo lost nearly 275 trillion dollars in forty-five minutes because a human trader held his stock in place for nearly an hour. The company had four times more debt than the GDP of the entire world because of that idiot. Fortunately for the world's inhabitants, GranCo got rid of the debt in about fifteen minutes by buying and selling the same Apple share about 300,000,000 times per second. Just consider yourself lucky that Taxbongo didn't replace the government with a gigantic bagged milk factory. It was very close to happening.
 
2012-08-12 10:01:32 AM
t1.gstatic.com
 
2012-08-12 10:07:44 AM
Someone with a better computer is $440 million richer.
 
2012-08-12 10:54:28 AM
Timely.
 
2012-08-12 11:31:55 AM

Triumph: A 1% transaction tax would solve a lot of problems and raise a lot of revenue.


Trillions of dollars of financial market transactions occur each day, so you'd like to tax a few trillion from financial markets each year?
 
2012-08-12 11:32:25 AM

ThatGuyGreg: Timely.


Yeah, didn't this happen like a week ago?
 
2012-08-12 11:38:02 AM
The computer program sounded like a normal investor, buy high and sell low. Institutional investors know how to drive down the price with rumors then buy. After that they inflate the price with market research and then sell it.
 
2012-08-12 11:39:29 AM
I can see this kind of thing causing disaster if they don't get a better handle on it.
We all might end up waking up one morning with no job, no economy because money changers crashed the system.
 
2012-08-12 11:40:55 AM
We really need a HFT program that targets commodities like corn and soy etc.....stuff that will affect the consumer.

Bankrupting a nation is the only way to show what a bad idea HFT is.
 
2012-08-12 11:46:29 AM

Giltric: We really need a HFT program that targets commodities like corn and soy etc


High Fructose Trading?
 
2012-08-12 12:00:30 PM
The British tax stock transactions, London is now larger than wall st. Damm socialists!
 
2012-08-12 12:01:11 PM

Triumph: A 1% transaction tax would solve a lot of problems and raise a lot of revenue.


This is actually a good idea. We already tax casino gambling, the stock market is the biggest casino on the planet.

How about the 1% pay %1 on those transactions, and the 99% don't have to pay 6% (or insert your local sales tax amount here) on a gallon of milk.
 
2012-08-12 12:15:38 PM

retarded: Triumph: A 1% transaction tax would solve a lot of problems and raise a lot of revenue.

This is actually a good idea. We already tax casino gambling, the stock market is the biggest casino on the planet.

How about the 1% pay %1 on those transactions, and the 99% don't have to pay 6% (or insert your local sales tax amount here) on a gallon of milk.


That's basically how Wall Street makes its money. Just call it a fee instead of a tax and everyone will accept it.
 
2012-08-12 12:20:50 PM
Sounds like these bastards are trying to steal my buy HIGH sell LOW strategy. Cause, in the long run don't contrarian investors outperform the market?
 
2012-08-12 12:34:03 PM

Triumph: A 1% transaction tax would solve a lot of problems and raise a lot of revenue.


Indeed. That said, I'd love to see some exceptions for IRAs/401ks/other retirement investment, as I'd like to encourage people to put money into retirement accounts.

/does automatic investment in a few index mutual funds in my Roth IRA
//rebalances twice a year, so tax/fees on transactions aren't really a big deal for me
 
2012-08-12 12:36:55 PM

Lsherm: I don't think even James Cameron realized that Skynet was going to be automated traders. But sure as shiat, they'll ruin the world.



yep. the best casino in the world is Wall Stroke. its so much more fun than vegas, though, because they get to lose other people's money instead of their own.
 
2012-08-12 12:39:39 PM
if i had my way, day trading and living off the seconds long investment buy would be illegal. its nothing but a crony capitalist scam. when you buy a stock, there should be a minimum time that you must wait to sell it. a second or so is not enough. that would encourge those day traders to get a real job and contribute something worthwhile instead of being the leechers that they are.

only in america.
 
2012-08-12 12:41:36 PM

Triumph: A 1% transaction tax would solve a lot of problems and raise a lot of revenue.



wow, great idea. tax those Turd day traders so they'll go out and get a real job and stop leeching of off people who work for a living.
 
2012-08-12 12:42:17 PM
DAY TRADER = LEECH
 
2012-08-12 12:44:44 PM
Day Trading: sure beats the hell out of working for a living. why live off your own labor when you can live off someone else's.


ain't Freedom great!
 
2012-08-12 12:45:25 PM

DON.MAC: Someone with a better computer is $440 million richer.



they're running Linux, no doubt.
 
2012-08-12 12:47:03 PM

Mike_LowELL: I knew somebody who worked at GranCo Capital Investment before it was bought out by Cogran Investment Capital. According to him, computer trading will only become dangerous if humans are allowed to continue trading alongside machines, particularly humans who see stock-trading as a stable, long-term investment. GranCo lost nearly 275 trillion dollars in forty-five minutes because a human trader held his stock in place for nearly an hour. The company had four times more debt than the GDP of the entire world because of that idiot. Fortunately for the world's inhabitants, GranCo got rid of the debt in about fifteen minutes by buying and selling the same Apple share about 300,000,000 times per second. Just consider yourself lucky that Taxbongo didn't replace the government with a gigantic bagged milk factory. It was very close to happening.



welcome to dumber than dirt Wall Stroke. they'd sell Jesus himself if his stock bumbed up a quarter of a penny.
 
2012-08-12 12:55:52 PM

Triumph: A 1% transaction tax would solve a lot of problems and raise a lot of revenue.



Of course it would work. Which is exactly why it will not be pursued.
 
2012-08-12 01:00:10 PM

Goodfella: Triumph: A 1% transaction tax would solve a lot of problems and raise a lot of revenue.


Of course it would work. Which is exactly why it will not be pursued.


Actually, because it would disproportionately affect wealthy people, it would never happen. But everyone that watches Fox News - even though most of them aren't wealthy - would be against it because, somehow, socialism. And Jesus, and stuff.
 
2012-08-12 01:07:08 PM

jjorsett: Triumph: A 1% transaction tax would solve a lot of problems and raise a lot of revenue.

Trillions of dollars of financial market transactions occur each day, so you'd like to tax a few trillion from financial markets each year?


It would certainly balance the budget.
 
2012-08-12 01:21:13 PM
sacrag.com
We fixed the glitch.
 
2012-08-12 01:44:18 PM

pjbreeze: The computer program sounded like a normal investor, buy high and sell low. Institutional investors know how to drive down the price with rumors then buy. After that they inflate the price with market research and then sell it.


Kind of like whats going on with Bank of Amerika at the moment. Short sale?
 
2012-08-12 01:46:39 PM

Goodfella: Triumph: A 1% transaction tax would solve a lot of problems and raise a lot of revenue.


Of course it would work. Which is exactly why it will not be pursued.


Can't be talking money out of the pockets of the job creators now can we?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-08-12 02:25:17 PM
One of the articles about this pointed out that the SEC will no longer let traders undo computerized trading mistakes. Good move.

Trillions of dollars of financial market transactions occur each day, so you'd like to tax a few trillion from financial markets each year?

Trillions of dollars move daily because gamblers are betting at high speed over millisecond-to-millisecond changes in price. The investment market could survive on a tenth of the trading volume we see now.

A 0.1% tax and a one second delay on trades could solve the problems as well as a 1% tax.
 
2012-08-12 03:18:02 PM

ZAZ: A 0.1% tax and a one second delay on trades could solve the problems as well as a 1% tax.


I agree. A 0.1% tax is what you do if you are trying to get a handle on the high-freq trading. A 1% tax is what to do if you are trying to balance the budget. I would even say 1% tax only applies to transactions over $1 million, but that will only result in massive high-speed transactions being divided up into many smaller ones.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-08-12 03:24:17 PM
that will only result in massive high-speed transactions being divided up into many smaller ones.

Apparently that is already happening. Computers break up big trades to hide them from other computers. If you know I'm buying a million shares you want to try to cut in line ahead of me, buy them first, and sell them to me at a penny per share profit.
 
2012-08-12 03:34:12 PM

Triumph: A 1% transaction tax would solve a lot of problems and raise a lot of revenue.


So would a national sales tax. Let's go for it!
 
2012-08-12 03:45:16 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: So would a national sales tax. Let's go for it!


Wall Street has become a mega-casino where people with high-speed trading computers simply extract money out of a marketplace while adding no value. And you apparently think Wal-Mart is a valid comparison to that.
 
2012-08-12 04:33:06 PM
Right now, due to the fact that stocks trade at discrete penny increments, i.e. 3.45, and the next tick up is 3.46, and nothing in between, the whole high frequency game isn't one of offering the best price (since there are tons of people on each side of the trade willing to trade at 3.45 and 3.46), but getting in line ahead of everyone else at those prices. It's not about offering the best price, it's about offering the same price that everyone else is, but a little bit faster. One solution people have proposed is to get rid of the discreteness of the prices, which would make it a game about actually offering the best prices, and not about beating everyone to the punch. I think this would be a pretty elegant way to take a lot of the wind out of high frequency traders' sails while at the same time making sure that actual investors get better prices and tighter trades when they make their long term investments.

http://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2012/hft_whats_broken.html
 
2012-08-12 04:54:09 PM

Mike_LowELL: I knew somebody who worked at GranCo Capital Investment before it was bought out by Cogran Investment Capital. According to him, computer trading will only become dangerous if humans are allowed to continue trading alongside machines, particularly humans who see stock-trading as a stable, long-term investment. GranCo lost nearly 275 trillion dollars in forty-five minutes because a human trader held his stock in place for nearly an hour. The company had four times more debt than the GDP of the entire world because of that idiot. Fortunately for the world's inhabitants, GranCo got rid of the debt in about fifteen minutes by buying and selling the same Apple share about 300,000,000 times per second. Just consider yourself lucky that Taxbongo didn't replace the government with a gigantic bagged milk factory. It was very close to happening.


I... I love you.
 
2012-08-12 07:11:26 PM

Triumph: A 1% transaction tax would solve a lot of problems and raise a lot of revenue.


Uh, how about higher. About about if you keep an asset for less then an hour you are taxed 75% of the profit and can't write off losses.
 
2012-08-12 07:28:52 PM
Listen all 'yall, it's an ARBITRAGE!!

paulmcloughlina2media.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-08-12 07:34:01 PM

Brontes: Triumph: A 1% transaction tax would solve a lot of problems and raise a lot of revenue.

Uh, how about higher. About about if you keep an asset for less then an hour you are taxed 75% of the profit and can't write off losses.


Sounds like a great way to remove liquidity from financial markets, which is bad for everybody. Great idea!
 
2012-08-12 07:46:42 PM
We had this thread already.
 
2012-08-12 07:47:58 PM

YouSirAreAMaroon: Sounds like a great way to remove liquidity from financial markets, which is bad for everybody. Great idea!


Does removing liquidity from households hurt everybody? How about consumers? And please explain how the massive increase of transactions on Wall Street in the last decade has "helped" everybody.
 
2012-08-12 07:52:47 PM

jjorsett: Triumph: A 1% transaction tax would solve a lot of problems and raise a lot of revenue.

Trillions of dollars of financial market transactions occur each day, so you'd like to tax a few trillion from financial markets each year?


Debeo Summa Credo: Triumph: A 1% transaction tax would solve a lot of problems and raise a lot of revenue.

So would a national sales tax. Let's go for it!



Once the dog whistle goes out, the rich conservative apologists come rushing to their defense. It used to be amusing, now it's just sad.
 
2012-08-12 08:15:29 PM

YouSirAreAMaroon: Brontes: Triumph: A 1% transaction tax would solve a lot of problems and raise a lot of revenue.

Uh, how about higher. About about if you keep an asset for less then an hour you are taxed 75% of the profit and can't write off losses.

Sounds like a great way to remove liquidity from financial markets, which is bad for everybody. Great idea!


How does high frequency trading help anyone? It is all about racing to get your order in before anyone else and flipping the stock for pennies as fast as possible on a time scale that isn't humanly possible. Yeah, that is not what a stock market is intended for.
 
2012-08-12 09:35:04 PM
How about start the transaction tax at 100% of the sale amount. If you sell $1 million in stock, you pay $1 million in taxes. This decreases by 1% for every second the security is owned. That means if you hold it for a mere 1 minute 40 seconds, the tax falls to 0%. I can't think of any rich people who'd oppose a 0% tax on anything.

These sorts of taxes aren't intended to raise revenue; it's intended to control behavior. This wouldn't collect a dime in taxes, but it'd ensure that every firm in Wall Street would be re-programmed to hold securities for a minimum of 100 seconds. Overnight, microsecond trading would be extinct. There's no additional burden; these are computerized trades -- a timestamp and simple arithmetic would be all that's needed in the algorithms, and I'm sure they get patched every now and then anyway. The only case that it wouldn't work would come from someone audacious enough to try to convince people that something would happen in the 100 seconds the stock is held. And that case is laughable. A new hire can't even fill out an employment application that quickly, let alone a factory get built.
 
2012-08-12 10:01:51 PM

jjorsett: Triumph: A 1% transaction tax would solve a lot of problems and raise a lot of revenue.

Trillions of dollars of financial market transactions occur each day, so you'd like to tax a few trillion from financial markets each year?


That there is an enormous volume of automated transactions that a 1% transaction tax would discourage is kind of the idea. The markets should exist to serve the economy; not the other way around.
 
2012-08-12 10:02:19 PM

YouSirAreAMaroon: Brontes: Triumph: A 1% transaction tax would solve a lot of problems and raise a lot of revenue.

Uh, how about higher. About about if you keep an asset for less then an hour you are taxed 75% of the profit and can't write off losses.

Sounds like a great way to remove liquidity from financial markets, which is bad for everybody. Great idea!



HFT is a new trading scheme. So your argument is there would be much less liquidity if HFT was banned? How on earth did the market survive for hundreds of years before computers?

And yes, less volatile liquidity is actually a GOOD thing. There is a reason a market crash occurs every decade or more, and it isn't to help "everybody."
 
2012-08-12 10:07:09 PM

Linux_Yes: Lsherm: I don't think even James Cameron realized that Skynet was going to be automated traders. But sure as shiat, they'll ruin the world.


yep. the best casino in the world is Wall Stroke. its so much more fun than vegas, though, because they get to lose other people's money instead of their own.


Linux_Yes: if i had my way, day trading and living off the seconds long investment buy would be illegal. its nothing but a crony capitalist scam. when you buy a stock, there should be a minimum time that you must wait to sell it. a second or so is not enough. that would encourge those day traders to get a real job and contribute something worthwhile instead of being the leechers that they are.

only in america.


Linux_Yes: Triumph: A 1% transaction tax would solve a lot of problems and raise a lot of revenue.


wow, great idea. tax those Turd day traders so they'll go out and get a real job and stop leeching of off people who work for a living.


Linux_Yes: DAY TRADER = LEECH


Linux_Yes: Day Trading: sure beats the hell out of working for a living. why live off your own labor when you can live off someone else's.


ain't Freedom great!


Linux_Yes: DON.MAC: Someone with a better computer is $440 million richer.


they're running Linux, no doubt.


Linux_Yes:
welcome to dumber than dirt Wall Stroke. they'd sell Jesus himself if his stock bumbed up a quarter of a penny.


Oh I get it. HFP (High frequency posting), good one
 
2012-08-13 12:08:08 AM
Triumph: A 1% transaction tax would solve a lot of problems and raise a lot of revenue.

.01%.

We already had one major crash due to computer automation in 2010. Remember them wiping out a few hundred billion in trades cause the wrong people lost that day?
 
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