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(Reason Magazine)   Pumping all the water out of the ground will pump all the water out of the ground. You can't explain that   (reason.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, water resources, aquifers  
•       •       •

8269 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Aug 2012 at 1:28 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-08-11 12:52:38 PM  
The link goes to a summary of a Reuters article that links to a longer Reuters article summarizing a press release.

Actual press release: http://www.mcgill.ca/newsroom/news/item/?item_id=217458
Actual paper: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v488/n7410/full/nature11295.html (not linkified because it doesn't get along with Fark; you may need to follow the link from the press release to read it if you don't subscribe)

The belief that we are depleting groundwater is of course very old. The quantitative analysis might be new.
 
2012-08-11 01:15:42 PM  

ZAZ:

The belief that we are depleting groundwater is of course very old. The quantitative analysis might be new.


There are certain areas in the southern US, where houses are constructed on concrete slabs, that can easily prove this analysis. Tap the aquifer too much, slabs crack.
 
2012-08-11 01:30:39 PM  
oops
 
2012-08-11 01:33:12 PM  
Water is life, man. It's a circular thing. It comes from the ground, and goes up into the sky as steam and back down to our little home to give us life, man. Water. Life.
 
2012-08-11 01:37:01 PM  
Time to melt some comets! Outer space is just a kind of Wal-Mart with really high shelves.
 
2012-08-11 01:37:35 PM  
I hate to break it to you, but that's true of everything we pull out of the ground.

We aren't killing dinosaurs fast enough to replenish the oil fields.
 
2012-08-11 01:46:30 PM  

simplicimus: ZAZ:

The belief that we are depleting groundwater is of course very old. The quantitative analysis might be new.

There are certain areas in the southern US, where houses are constructed on concrete slabs, that can easily prove this analysis. Tap the aquifer too much, slabs crack.


encrypted-tbn1.google.com
 
2012-08-11 01:49:15 PM  

SN1987a goes boom: simplicimus: ZAZ:

The belief that we are depleting groundwater is of course very old. The quantitative analysis might be new.

There are certain areas in the southern US, where houses are constructed on concrete slabs, that can easily prove this analysis. Tap the aquifer too much, slabs crack.

[encrypted-tbn1.google.com image 230x500]


Damn!
 
2012-08-11 01:50:05 PM  
Wars of the future will be fought over water as they are over oil today.
c1bluelivingideascom.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com
Blue Gold - World Water Wars. (Full Film)
 
2012-08-11 01:50:11 PM  

FuturePastNow: I hate to break it to you, but that's true of everything we pull out of the ground.

We aren't killing dinosaurs fast enough to replenish the oil fields.


Start in the Senate, then work our way to the House. After that, hell, who knows? Mobs can be fickle. :)
 
2012-08-11 01:51:23 PM  

SN1987a goes boom: simplicimus: ZAZ:

The belief that we are depleting groundwater is of course very old. The quantitative analysis might be new.

There are certain areas in the southern US, where houses are constructed on concrete slabs, that can easily prove this analysis. Tap the aquifer too much, slabs crack.

[encrypted-tbn1.google.com image 230x500]


Wow. Just wow.
 
2012-08-11 01:52:39 PM  
You can't explain that

O RLY?
mos.totalfilm.com
 
2012-08-11 01:54:14 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Time to melt some comets! Outer space is just a kind of Wal-Mart with really high shelves.


www.zerohedge.com
 
2012-08-11 01:57:52 PM  
Easy way to solve this folks, everyone's going to have to take a piss at 4:25 this afternoon.
 
2012-08-11 01:58:06 PM  
Consider this.

1960's. Global population roughly 2 billion.
2012. Global population roughly 6 billion plus.

Global resources: Less than in 1940.

Consumption of resources up by 500% over the 1960's levels.

Massive increase in population plus fixed resources tends to endanger everyone.

Simple math.
 
2012-08-11 01:59:31 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Time to melt some comets! Outer space is just a kind of Wal-Mart with really high shelves.


C'mon man. You'd been dialing it back, becoming actually pleasant in the Curiosity threads. Why go silly now?
 
2012-08-11 02:01:34 PM  

Carousel Beast: Quantum Apostrophe: Time to melt some comets! Outer space is just a kind of Wal-Mart with really high shelves.

[www.zerohedge.com image 750x600]


HAhahahahahaa!!! Oh boy, it's pudding day at the mental hospital, you seem excited today. Did the bad man mock your space delusions? Pssstt: We're *already* in space. Feel better?
 
2012-08-11 02:03:27 PM  
t2.gstatic.com
 
2012-08-11 02:03:38 PM  
To bad this is Reason magazine, which will conclude the solution is more freemarket.
 
2012-08-11 02:03:41 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: HAhahahahahaa!!! Oh boy, it's pudding day at the mental hospital, you seem excited today. Did the bad man mock your space delusions? Pssstt: We're *already* in space. Feel better?


dgt1.net
 
2012-08-11 02:04:39 PM  

Ed Willy: To bad this is Reason magazine, which will conclude the solution is more freemarket.


If the cost of fresh water goes up, there'll be a free market solution in hording supplies and jacking up the price to sell to the wealthy to fill their swimming pools.
 
2012-08-11 02:09:39 PM  

theorellior: Quantum Apostrophe: HAhahahahahaa!!! Oh boy, it's pudding day at the mental hospital, you seem excited today. Did the bad man mock your space delusions? Pssstt: We're *already* in space. Feel better?

[dgt1.net image 300x195]


How you doing today? Somehow slogging through the day, knowing the HUMAN SPECIES will never get off this "rock", this "mud ball", and that anyways, there won't be a human species in a million years? And at any rate, you don't want to live long enough to see if I'm wrong?
 
2012-08-11 02:14:09 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Time to melt some comets! Outer space is just a kind of Wal-Mart with really high shelves.


farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2012-08-11 02:14:35 PM  
Thousands of water caches...

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-08-11 02:15:06 PM  
Then I guess we better double up on that global warming so we can finish melting the ice caps and the glaciers to replenish the aquifers. Nice how its all going to work out in the end.
 
2012-08-11 02:16:07 PM  
Every time population doubles it requires resources equal to resource requirements of all previous doublings combined. But we are nowhere near carrying capacity right?
 
2012-08-11 02:16:44 PM  
Grok = Drink

www.cafleurebon.com
 
2012-08-11 02:23:22 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: How you doing today? Somehow slogging through the day, knowing the HUMAN SPECIES will never get off this "rock", this "mud ball", and that anyways, there won't be a human species in a million years? And at any rate, you don't want to live long enough to see if I'm wrong?


At least I'm not curled up in a fetal ball worried about my limited mortal life when I'm not posting on Fark. Anyway, shouldn't you be eating royal jelly or preparing the cryogenic chamber for your head or something?
 
2012-08-11 02:26:41 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Carousel Beast: Quantum Apostrophe: Time to melt some comets! Outer space is just a kind of Wal-Mart with really high shelves.

[www.zerohedge.com image 750x600]

HAhahahahahaa!!! Oh boy, it's pudding day at the mental hospital, you seem excited today. Did the bad man mock your space delusions? Pssstt: We're *already* in space. Feel better?


Such a desperate little attention whore...
 
2012-08-11 02:36:09 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Time to melt some comets! Outer space is just a kind of Wal-Mart with really high shelves.


NO! We need that water for terraforming Mars!

/Thought about this...
//Not so serious... Maybe
 
2012-08-11 02:38:09 PM  
I'm sure the free market will find a solution to a finite resource with minimal extraction costs.
 
2012-08-11 02:39:05 PM  
I kinda don't get the headline and some of the comments.

Y'all do know that all groundwater comes from the surface, right? It may have infiltrated yesterday or a thousand years ago, but it came from the surface. If you take it out no faster than it goes back in, then you have a safe or sustainable yield. Obviously, in a lot of places they are extracting way above the safe yield. This study tried to look on a planet scale and see if we are above the safe yield and they think we are. It's not really analogous to oil because the time scale is much smaller and it is not a fixed resource in the same way as others since water doesn't go away it just moves around.
 
2012-08-11 02:41:41 PM  

newton: Wars of the future will be fought over water as they are over oil today.
[c1bluelivingideascom.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com image 530x242]
Blue Gold - World Water Wars. (Full Film)


Here's a much better movie about the same subject
 
2012-08-11 02:43:23 PM  
The ground water IS being depleted in some places. I'm not sure what the controversy is.
 
2012-08-11 02:43:37 PM  

Rik01: Consider this.

1960's. Global population roughly 2 billion.
2012. Global population roughly 6 billion plus.

Global resources: Less than in 1940.

Consumption of resources up by 500% over the 1960's levels.

Massive increase in population plus fixed resources tends to endanger everyone.

Simple math.


There's no math in your post, merely a list of things followed by a sentence fragment.

Just FYI.
 
2012-08-11 02:44:36 PM  
Water monopolies and water wars have always happened--only the number and scale of them is likely to be new.

Water is a fickle element. She gives and she takes away. Water vapor is a greenhouse gas, important by its sheer volume, but quick to change form and ever its role as it becomes vapor, steam, water, ice, snow, etc, in response to rapid and local changes in pressure and temperature. We don't understand the role of clouds or of ice well and despite considerable progress, they are still wild cards in climate science.

A cloud typically forms in about 15 minutes and lasts perhaps 45 minutes. A small cumulous cloud can weigh abou 800,000 pounds, as much as a 747. (Cecil Adams) Clouds can trap heat and reflect light depending on where they form, etc. so their role is ambiguous at best.

All of the fossil water that we are pumping out of the ground gets trapped in the hydrological cycle until it can seep back, which is a process that has taken thousands, sometimes millions of years.

This means that by using gasoline pumps (the main culprit in countries with small scale farmers) or electricity from fossil fuels, we are both disrupting the cycle of carbon (and sulphur, nitrogen, etc.) and the water cycle. We are taking up thousands and millions of years of storage and blasting through it at high speed on a geological and biological time scale. The world does not have time to catch up or adapt.

The result is that you simultaneously run out of water for plants, animals, people, industry, etc., while suffering from more flooding and rain damage, etc. Land that is watered with fossil water is watered with mineral salts as well and is likely to become toxic and non-productive. Land that is watered with fossil water represents more fossil fuel and more global warming regardless of what way the fickle goddess water leans. And in the end, it leads to artifical population booms, followed by busts. We can do this simply by damming and diverting water from rivers (irrigation) without tapping fossil water, but the fossil water is NEW water as far as today's weather, climate and land use is concerned and it is more dangerous than diverted water.

Water is one of the nine basic life support systems (or cycles) identified by environmental scientists as critical to life, humanity and the economy, and like most of the nine, it is already reaching critical levels. In a century, we will meet our doom unless we not only adapt, but conserve and pull back on a very large scale.

Everything at our disposal is going to have to be managed better. Failure to cooperate in the management of finite and shared resources leads to catastrophe (the tragedy of the commons being one of many effects). We have seen this in the collapse of many civilizations and cultures in the past, and we face the almighty grand blow-out in the not too distant future.

It is important to quantify and then correct our short-fall of water, because if we don't it will take down everything: the ecology, the economy, society, global and local peace, everything.

In a real sense, this article is the most important thing you will read today and perhaps for a long time, because it puts its finger on something just as serious as the fossil fuel abuse which we have been practicing for a bit over 200 years, with thousands if not millions of years worth of damage as the result.

Water is a Biatch Goddess: she brought you into this world, and she can take you out.
 
2012-08-11 02:44:44 PM  
Starr, J. R. 1991. Water wars. Foreign Policy 82 (Spring): 17-36.

Link
 
2012-08-11 02:46:02 PM  

Bucky Katt: The ground water IS being depleted in some places. I'm not sure what the controversy is.


The controversy is hippies exist and tell us shiatting where we eat is a bad thing, and that is UNACCEPTABLE! farkING HIPPIES!
 
2012-08-11 02:49:10 PM  

GORDON: There's no math in your post, merely a list of things followed by a sentence fragment.

Just FYI.



he left the math for you to do at home. These are just the input values.
 
2012-08-11 02:49:48 PM  
So, that's a libertarian website hosting a news snippet that's an example of the tragedy of the commons.
Heh.

/if only there was some entity that could regulate who could take water from aquifers and how quickly they could do it...
 
2012-08-11 02:57:57 PM  

Ed Willy: To bad this is Reason magazine, which will conclude the solution is more freemarket.


To be fair, this is pretty much just a re-feed of Reuters on Reason's website. Not specifically their commentary.

But, yeah, it's kinda an interesting place to get it from. Because, if you have pure property rights on your personal property, you can pump all day long. You're destroying your property's value, perhaps, but better to do it before your neighbors do. If there's some other kind of shared or socially contractable rights going on besides just "I own this dirt", then, well heck, you've just re-invented a regulatory government. Like you do.
 
2012-08-11 03:02:18 PM  

Rik01: Consider this.

1960's. Global population roughly 2 billion.
2012. Global population roughly 6 billion plus.

Global resources: Less than in 1940.

Consumption of resources up by 500% over the 1960's levels.

Massive increase in population plus fixed resources tends to endanger everyone.

Simple math.


(Water) resources aren't fixed. Water is water. Once it's "used" it's still water. There isn't some weird chemical reaction that takes water, H2O, and splits the molecule only to never let it reform ever again. Hydrogen bonding with oxygen is a very natural, stable reaction that occurs all the time. The quantity of water, due to its nature and the way it's used, is effectively infinite.

The problem isn't the quantity of resources, the problem is in being able to extract it from wherever it is, via a simple, clean, efficient way.
 
2012-08-11 03:08:23 PM  

WanPhat: I kinda don't get the headline and some of the comments.

Y'all do know that all groundwater comes from the surface, right? It may have infiltrated yesterday or a thousand years ago, but it came from the surface. If you take it out no faster than it goes back in, then you have a safe or sustainable yield. Obviously, in a lot of places they are extracting way above the safe yield. This study tried to look on a planet scale and see if we are above the safe yield and they think we are. It's not really analogous to oil because the time scale is much smaller and it is not a fixed resource in the same way as others since water doesn't go away it just moves around.


You lost all credibility with "Y'all".
 
2012-08-11 03:15:30 PM  

FuturePastNow: I hate to break it to you, but that's true of everything we pull out of the ground.

We aren't killing dinosaurs fast enough to replenish the oil fields.


Since oil came from plankton and vegetation we should probably stop killing dinosaurs.
 
2012-08-11 03:17:46 PM  
I know! I'll build another twenty golf courses in Las Vegas and Phoenix and Reno and Los Angeles and and and and and
 
2012-08-11 03:17:58 PM  

Bucky Katt: The ground water IS being depleted in some places. I'm not sure what the controversy is.


The controversy is rooted in any and all possible alterations to the time-honoured methods of profiting from the Earth.

Particularly facts, which hate freedom.
 
2012-08-11 03:32:41 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: [t2.gstatic.com image 193x262]


Not them. They've got herpes.
 
2012-08-11 03:33:38 PM  

Hand Banana: Since oil came from plankton and vegetation we should probably stop killing dinosaurs.


But I love fried chicken and turkey breast!
 
2012-08-11 04:18:12 PM  

2wolves: I know! I'll build another twenty golf courses in Las Vegas and Phoenix and Reno and Los Angeles and and and and and


A whole heaping steaming pile of this!
 
2012-08-11 04:45:44 PM  

SN1987a goes boom: simplicimus: ZAZ:

The belief that we are depleting groundwater is of course very old. The quantitative analysis might be new.

There are certain areas in the southern US, where houses are constructed on concrete slabs, that can easily prove this analysis. Tap the aquifer too much, slabs crack.

[encrypted-tbn1.google.com image 230x500]


Can someone please explain this picture to someone with very bad eyesight (me)?
I can see it's a man standing next to a pole with what I assume are dates. But what does the sign say?
 
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