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(Yahoo)   US DOJ files suit against Meridan MS school system and police dept. alleging that having school children arrested and jailed for "dress code violations, flatulence, profanity, and disrespect" might just maybe violate their civil rights   ( divider line
    More: Obvious, Meridian, DOJ, school systems, MPD, Civil Rights Division, Department of Juvenile Justice, youth service, youth court  
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6281 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Aug 2012 at 2:40 PM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2012-08-11 07:08:53 PM  

relcec: io lent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html
The figures were sourced from Eurostat, the European Commission's database of statistics. They are gathered using official sources in the countries concerned such as the national statistics office, the national prison administration, ministries of the interior or justice, and police. A breakdown of the statistics, which were compiled into league tables by the Conservatives, revealed that violent crime in the UK had increased from 652,974 offences in 1998 to more than 1.15 million crimes in 2007.

And I would be foolish to dispute such things, however... it's kinda like the autism increase ya know? We've reclassified several different things as "violent crimes"... did it somewhere between 1998 and 2007, no I'm not being sarcastic I'm trying to remember when the Daily Wail first started it's "Broken Britain" bollocks as this 'jump' in violent crime was one of the major things used at the time.

However such, massive, jumps in the statistics do allow politicians to play the usual game as well as the mass media as well obviously.
2012-08-11 07:13:17 PM  

PsiChick: poe_zlaw: I dont see why the US just doesnt split up. Like Europe but with more crime.

[ image 600x368]

I'd appreciate NV not being lumped in with Arizona and Utah. We're really pretty decent people.

Hey, hey, be fair. The way the geography is, the cool states (New Mexico and Nevada) have asshole states (Arizona and Utah) separating them.

And really, do you want to be lumped in with CALIFORNIA? Hah, no. The Cali-Ore-Wash trifecta is the proper grouping for the latte-addicted yuppie crowd, thanks.
2012-08-11 07:32:02 PM  
Flatulence? Seriously?

There are more than a few people in my family who should definitely stay out of Mississippi then.
2012-08-11 07:42:34 PM  

Frederf: Note quizzical expression on school administrators' faces when they were told that their students have civil rights to violate.

They have Thomas on their side. Just need four more.
2012-08-11 07:43:18 PM  
Let me put it in a way that can easily be understood by even authoriatarian dolts: Jailing kids for wearing their pants down is as ridiculous (if not more so) as the kids wearing their pants down.
2012-08-11 08:09:17 PM  

Gyrfalcon: just_intonation: Gyrfalcon: What happened to detention?

I meant to answer this specifically... detention went out the door with zero tolerance, and zero tolerance is there because the schools themselves no longer allow the administrators to exercise judgement in dealing with individual cases -- everyone must be treated equally. That's equally harshly now, especially as the kids' behavior spials out of control.

True enough. Now I have to ask you another question: Why do you assume the kids' parents aren't "doing anything" about this? I'm really curious to know why your assumption is that kids behaving badly = parents not disciplining their kids. Is it that you think no well-raised child would ever act up in school? That a kid who disrespects the teacher must have a parent who allows him to do this? Maybe the reverse is true, that the parents are so strict the kid is acting out in a place where he doesn't have to worry about getting beat with a 2x4.

Or it could just be kids being kids, you know. Rowdy behavior in class isn't some kind of "gateway behavior" into general lawlessness and chaos. But ruining their lives by sending them to juvenile hall for farting in class just might be.

I know that there will be exceptions to every rule and I'm not going to say that there will be no 'well-raised' children who don't act up in school. I may also be jumping to a conclusion here, but I assume that a single act of flatulence is not going to bring down the administrative wrath, and that no teacher is going to send a kid to the pokey if he utters a single profanity on a single instance. I believe that there are multiple incidents of disrespect, swearing, violation of school dress code (which I interpret as school administration-ese for wearing gang colors), etc. that are occuring; that the kids are flaunting these behaviors in the face of administration and defying them to do something about it. If well-raised kids are doing that, well, they deserve the same treatment as those who are not so well-raised -- but it's been my experience that well-raised kids know that there are boundaries and limits and consequences for their actions and have parent(s) that enforce those boundaries and limits and provide the consequences. And of course I don't equate being well-raised to being beat with a 2x4 on a regular basis; that's rather the reverse (and it wouldn't surprise me if some of the kids involved here were in that exact situation).

Look, I'm no proponent of a police state, but as long as kids are taught that it's okay to openly defy the rules and authority (and I know how that's going to be viewed here, but at this point I don't care -- I think you know what I'm saying, though) and believe that they will not suffer any consequences, then that's *exactly* what we're headed for. Personal responsibility and accountability are not even expected behaviors any longer, apparently, so I guess 'facism' is the answer -- though it makes me sad. I don't think there's a middle ground -- it's either enforce the rules or allow total anarchy.
2012-08-11 08:28:17 PM  

give me doughnuts: AssAsInAssassin: Yeah! There was never any remedy for that until the schools started violating kids' civil rights.

It's called "corporal punishment", and it is still legal in MS. Even the dumbest of students understands pain.

Even better than physical abuse: why not just let teachers spit on students? Yep, violence is the best way to teach obecience, and contempt respect.

After the highly efffective physical assault, there's detention, suspension, expulsion, clean-up duty (happened to me once), running laps, extra work asssignments, and a good old chewing out.

Arresting kids and throwing them jail for farting or wearing a rude T-shirt is a new thing, and ridiculous even by the old, corporal-punishment-builds-respect-for-authority standards.

Don't you even try to tell me they should have beeen doing this all along.

/Jesus. What is wrong with adults these days?
//How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?
2012-08-11 08:52:34 PM  
I have a couple of friends that are doctors in meridian and I have family in Yazoo City. I know one of my friends home schools their children, and in Yazoo City white kids go to private school and black kids go to public school (or their own private schools, I guess). My friend home schools to avoid the whole issue and because he wants his kids to be literate and able to get into college. But otherwise he loves that little city.
2012-08-11 08:58:18 PM  
Also these zero-tolerance policies are so ridiculous. My daughter was threatened with suspension and a ticket in 5th grade for defending herself when a boy shoved her and hit her. My response was to tell the school district no you will not punish my child, you will deal with the child who started it. I said if you push this issue I will ensure it ends up on the news and I will remove my high-performing students and home school them (which means you will lose money from the state). They backed down when I showed up with several other parents and a news reporter to the school board mtg. Asshats. The parents needed to push to back on this nonsense before it ever went this far with these power hungry bastards.

/my daughter won the fight
2012-08-11 09:34:13 PM  

BizarreMan: rebelyell2006: Things really have changed. When I was a kid, the rest of the students just mercilessly ridiculed students who farted in class. Nobody was arrested.

I was wondering exactly how much you had to rip one to end up being arrested.

Sure it's more than a one cheek sneak, but are you eating beans and boiled eggs and holding it in until you've got a really big one that reverberates down the halls and into the gymn?

I managed one so potent that the teacher sent me to the principal's office once. The principal seemed confused but I can't say I blame the guy who made me leave, the stench was palpable.
2012-08-11 10:04:10 PM  
This case reeks of a private prison and kick backs being involved.
2012-08-11 10:10:17 PM  
When farting in schools is outlawed, only outlaws in school will fart.
2012-08-11 10:10:42 PM  

RandomRandom: just_intonation: These parents raise these kids without discipline or moral standards, then send them off to school to learn how to be better hoodlums, and so they can pawn off their responsibilities on the 'gubmint'. The schools are not equipped to deal with the behavioral issues, and they have to turn to the police to enforce order and discipline.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the kids being disciplined by courts, and if that means incarceration of some sort, that's fine by me.

Really?!? Could you possibly be any more racist? As a favor, I bolded your dog-whistle code words for you.

Here's why it's racist - it would NEVER HAPPEN in a middle class white school district. Even if they had identical rules in your local middle-class schools, the parents would have enough money and education (not smarts, education) to immediately fight it in the courts, and win. This kind of crap wouldn't last 6 month in a middle class white neighborhood. Further, the superintendent's heads would roll so far they'd be lucky to escape without losing their houses to civil judgments.

Call me old fashioned, but with jails packed to capacity I think jail should largely be reserved for violent offenders. Sure, we still need to lock up the degenerate con-men and serious thieves. Largely though, jail should be a last-resort tool to keep our street's safe.

Jail should not be a hammer to punish an underclass who are not as socially trained as we'd like. When the only tool you prefer is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail.

2012-08-11 10:22:30 PM  
Has anyone yet suggested that Dr. Alvin may be getting kickbacks from these juvenile programs?
2012-08-11 10:26:53 PM  
Meridan MS

It's only funny till someone loses an i.
2012-08-11 10:38:39 PM  

rudemix: As a functional idiot I'm OK with jailing people that dress in a manner I don't like. It says nothing about the rebelliousness of youth and everything about the tearing apart of the fabric of all that is good. Kids that dress odd never grow out of it or get jobs. Arrest the youth. Squandering our rights means nothing next to fixing this. I'm a functional idiot.

all of the above
2012-08-11 10:40:30 PM  

poe_zlaw: I dont see why the US just doesnt split up. Like Europe but with more crime.

I'm ok with this jay peg
2012-08-11 11:34:37 PM  

just_intonation: Look, I'm no proponent of a police state, but as long as kids are taught that it's okay to openly defy the rules and authority (and I know how that's going to be viewed here, but at this point I don't care -- I think you know what I'm saying, though) and believe that they will not suffer any consequences, then that's *exactly* what we're headed for. Personal responsibility and accountability are not even expected behaviors any longer, apparently, so I guess 'facism' is the answer -- though it makes me sad. I don't think there's a middle ground -- it's either enforce the rules or allow total anarchy.

You don't see, though, that rules can be enforced without calling the cops every single time a kid misbehaves in class? For the record, that's what this district was doing; most districts are not so draconian. You seem to be saying--and correct me if I'm misreading you--that it's either abandon all hope of discipline OR haul the little f*ckers off to jail. There's no room, in your mind, for merely reinstating ordinary school punishments, then? For returning to detention periods and "F's" and extra homework for disrupting class?

I admit, this requires a lot more intestinal fortitude on the part of teachers, principals and school administrators--but wouldn't it be better than ensuring these kids hate society?
2012-08-11 11:55:46 PM  
Here's my take on this issue: (some words intentionally misspelled to avoid bogus hyperlinks)

It is completely immoral to make someone responsible for a situation he is forbidden to control. And this is what we have done to teachers in government-operated (c)lassrooms today. Not just in Mississippi, but all over the nation.

A courtroom is an indispensable public venu. In charge of this venu is a person we call a judge. Because of his training and expertise, this person has the power of the law, in exchange for which he swears an oath not to abuse this power. In this venu duties are performed that are essential to the public good and health. Because of this, this person, this judge, has very wide latitude in what he/she will and will not tolerate in that courtroom. He may ban certain individuals. He may hold persons in contempt and levy fines. He may actually imprison those who refuse to allow these vital responsibilities to be performed as designed. He might order attendees of a case to shut the hell up or be held in contempt. He might not even give them a warning first. If someone shows up dressed inappropriately, that attendee might be ordered to leave the courtroom. And so on.

Try as I might, I cannot see why a public schoolroom teacher should not be accorded many (but not all) of the same privileges and responsibilities as a judge. An educated populace is absolutely necessary for a functioning modern society. That's why we insist on people attending (c)lasses until they are past adolescence. It actually is (ironically) a law. The cost to make a complete recording of a classroom-day is now minimal, and it should be done to avoid frivolous complaints about discipline. Essentially, because of societal decay, we need to make our teachers peace officers, heartbreaking as it is.
2012-08-12 12:25:57 AM  

Aloy: Did the dress violations look like this?:
[ image 415x299]


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