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(Yahoo)   US DOJ files suit against Meridan MS school system and police dept. alleging that having school children arrested and jailed for "dress code violations, flatulence, profanity, and disrespect" might just maybe violate their civil rights   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 120
    More: Obvious, Meridian, DOJ, school systems, MPD, Civil Rights Division, Department of Juvenile Justice, youth service, youth court  
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6263 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Aug 2012 at 2:40 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-11 03:41:27 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: brerrabbit: Where the fark do school districts get the idea that they can do farked up shiat like this?

This is Mississippi. The only thing exceeding their ignorance is their racism.


And their waistlines.
 
2012-08-11 03:42:16 PM  
Typical way of doing things. The school administration is not responsible since they did not arrest the children and the cops are not responsible because they did what they were told to do by school officials.
\
And since when do Constitutional rights apply to school kids?
 
2012-08-11 03:44:33 PM  

xynix: brerrabbit: Where the fark do school districts get the idea that they can do farked up shiat like this?

This kinda happened in Virginia as well. Where judges were sending kids to private prisons and taking kickbacks. Though there is no evidence this is the case here but I would certainly not be surprised if it was.


It's actually the county sheriffs that are encouraging this. There aren't enough prison beds in Mississippi, so state prisoners are housed in county jails. The state pays a high per diem for this, and the sheriffs get lots of $$ in their budgets and wallets. County jail construction is a growth industry in MS and Louisiana.
Plus, they rent out "work details" to local businesses and farms. 21st Century slavery.
 
2012-08-11 03:45:24 PM  

ttc2301: Meridian isn't predominatly white. The school admins aren't predominatly white. I hate to fark up your socially conscious outrage here, but it's not what you think.


It's true; it doesn't matter how many times a race's youth are painted with a broad brush, doesn't matter that popular culture stereotypes them and pushes them in a certain direction. In their hearts, they always know that's not what they are, not the only option available to them. They need no local role models, no fair shake from the police. They cannot be brainwashed or pressured. They are better and stronger people than whites, with our bullying, peer pressure, our kids who grow up thinking TV stars are role models.

ITT: Racists think blacks are ubermenschen.
 
2012-08-11 03:46:07 PM  

Thraeryn: This is a state where Morgan Freeman has to offer to foot the bill for a public high school to even attempt a desegregated prom.

The ground may not turn to glass if we detonate a nuclear weapon there, but I doubt anyone outside Alabama or Tennessee will weep.


I bet it would if you used enough.

/Warn James F. Campbell first though.
 
2012-08-11 03:51:18 PM  

poe_zlaw: I dont see why the US just doesnt split up. Like Europe but with more crime.

[suzieqq.files.wordpress.com image 600x368]


I'd appreciate NV not being lumped in with Arizona and Utah. We're really pretty decent people.
 
2012-08-11 04:03:40 PM  

PsiChick: poe_zlaw: I dont see why the US just doesnt split up. Like Europe but with more crime.

[suzieqq.files.wordpress.com image 600x368]

I'd appreciate NV not being lumped in with Arizona and Utah. We're really pretty decent people.


I'd appreciate Ohio not being connected to Michigan so quit you're biatching.
 
2012-08-11 04:10:41 PM  
School officials, cops and judges who behave like this should be arrested, jailed, tried, fired and imprisoned. Violation of the Constitution should be one of the highest crimes by a public official at any level. Instead, it becomes a civil matter usually handled by a strongly worded letter and promises to do better. Police and judges, in particular, who take an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution, ought to be summarily fired when an investigation determines they have violated that oath.
 
2012-08-11 04:26:12 PM  

iheartscotch: Link said article could not be found. So; I'm going to assume that Scumbag Steve and his crew decided it was a good idea to dress street and then come to school.

/ I have one question for the pants-saggers; how do you expect to get a job that pays well, that does not involve selling cocain, while the boomers are still in positions of authority?


I know you're probably joking, but that's still not something arrest worthy.
Also this is a question that applies to everyone at this point and not just "pants saggers".
 
2012-08-11 04:31:30 PM  

just_intonation: So, here's the real problem: lack of parenting.

These parents raise these kids without discipline or moral standards, then send them off to school to learn how to be better hoodlums, and so they can pawn off their responsibilities on the 'gubmint'. The schools are not equipped to deal with the behavioral issues, and they have to turn to the police to enforce order and discipline.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the kids being disciplined by courts, and if that means incarceration of some sort, that's fine by me. While they're at it, they should also incarcerate the parents and/or otherwise hold them responsible for their kids' behavior. Of course, in this liberal state, there is no accountability or personal or familial responsibility -- and that's the real problem.

If it just so happens that the majority of the kids who have had no parental involvement or discipline are of color, that's not racism; it's reality.



1)Thanks for admitting you're a fascist and opposed to human freedom with your hard-on for incarcerating people for no reason.
2)The schools never had to turn to the police and could handle it themselves if they were anything other than bastards or first rate retards.
3) You're retarded if you think Miss. is a liberal state
4) Yeah no. Institutional racism (as well as personal racism I'm sure in Miss.) are real and trying to pass yourself off as a "race realist" won't hide your racist tendencies, scum.
 
2012-08-11 04:34:14 PM  

Show_The_O_Face: This is why I took primarily AP classes in high school whenever I could. It wasn't that I appreciated the extra challenge and I certainly wasn't a GPA whore, but everyone in the room was there for the same reason.


Same here actually.
 
2012-08-11 04:35:25 PM  
Isn't this the same little shiat school system that discriminated against a lesbian teen, and then secretly moved the prom to a different place without telling her just so they could fark with her after she filed a discrimination lawsuit?

Yeah, I don't expect great things.
 
2012-08-11 04:42:12 PM  

just_intonation: No, I was serious. Decent parenting should not be a conservatives-only value, but apparently it is.

And I'm referring to the country, not the state of Mississippi, which is too ignorant to know what the hell it is.


Are you retarded? Most of the fark ups I know came from conservative (socially/religious) homes.
And this country is the furthest right you can be and somehow still be considered a first world country (even though at this point we're a joke and the bridge between first world and third world, on our way to third maybe).
Our two political parties are conservative (D, this may be changing soon but at the moment it stands) and far right fascists (R).
Maybe you'd be happy in a good conservative state like Iran or Saudi Arabia?
 
2012-08-11 04:43:56 PM  

just_intonation: No, I was serious. Decent parenting should not be a conservatives-only value, but apparently it is.


And yet all of today's domestic terrorists come from conservative backgrounds. Or they themselves are conservatives.
 
2012-08-11 04:44:27 PM  
Please dont forget that everyones favorite asshole Fred Phelps is from Meridian, too.


Before you go nuking this place into a glass parking lot, give me an hour to 'escape' to Louisiana. Then I'll make my way to the civilized world from there...thanks.

/yes for now im farking trapped here
//help
///the average person here is really out of touch with the rest of the world. the weirdos tend to hide and escape as fast as they can.
 
2012-08-11 04:55:28 PM  

brerrabbit: Where the fark do school districts get the idea that they can do farked up shiat like this?


SCOTUS has basically said that students are not people and don't have rights.
 
2012-08-11 04:58:19 PM  

m2313: iheartscotch: Link said article could not be found. So; I'm going to assume that Scumbag Steve and his crew decided it was a good idea to dress street and then come to school.

/ I have one question for the pants-saggers; how do you expect to get a job that pays well, that does not involve selling cocain, while the boomers are still in positions of authority?

I know you're probably joking, but that's still not something arrest worthy.
Also this is a question that applies to everyone at this point and not just "pants saggers".


I was joking; but, teachers have learned that when it comes to crotch fruit, sometimes you have to involve the police. My point being; with the litigious nature of our society, it behooves you to have a person who it is harder to sue actually enforce rules.

/ my boss is a boomer; all you need to do is wear a nice button-down shirt with slacks that fit and a tie. If you show up looking like you're heading to the club to holla at some hoochies; you're probably not going to get hired
 
2012-08-11 05:02:15 PM  

One Bad Apple: Ambivalence: This should surprise no one. Parents expect schools to raise their children and schools expect police to discipline them. Everyone is passing the buck in child rearing.

[a.abcnews.com image 640x360]


Of course they do. You get arrested when you try to rear children all by yourself.


Dammit. I should not have laughed so hard at that.
 
2012-08-11 05:02:35 PM  
BMFPitt: SCOTUS has basically said that students are not people and don't have rights.

Um [Citation Needed]

Students do have constitutional rights. See Tinker V. Des Moines,
 
2012-08-11 05:05:01 PM  

RandomRandom: just_intonation: These parents raise these kids without discipline or moral standards, then send them off to school to learn how to be better hoodlums, and so they can pawn off their responsibilities on the 'gubmint'. The schools are not equipped to deal with the behavioral issues, and they have to turn to the police to enforce order and discipline.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the kids being disciplined by courts, and if that means incarceration of some sort, that's fine by me.

Really?!? Could you possibly be any more racist? As a favor, I bolded your dog-whistle code words for you.

Here's why it's racist - it would NEVER HAPPEN in a middle class white school district. Even if they had identical rules in your local middle-class schools, the parents would have enough money and education (not smarts, education) to immediately fight it in the courts, and win. This kind of crap wouldn't last 6 month in a middle class white neighborhood. Further, the superintendent's heads would roll so far they'd be lucky to escape without losing their houses to civil judgments.

Call me old fashioned, but with jails packed to capacity I think jail should largely be reserved for violent offenders. Sure, we still need to lock up the degenerate con-men and serious thieves. Largely though, jail should be a last-resort tool to keep our street's safe.

Jail should not be a hammer to punish an underclass who are not as socially trained as we'd like. When the only tool you prefer is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail.


146 separate colors and flavors of T-H-I-S. I'd say you hit the nail square on the head but that just might be my narrow-mindedness.
 
2012-08-11 05:05:54 PM  

Aloy: Did the dress violations look like this?:
[4.bp.blogspot.com image 415x299]

Imokaywithincarcerationhere.jpg


I grew up in north Omaha. The assistant principal at my high school (current principal now, I think) always carried a roll of duct tape. 15 years later and I still haven't seen a better way to ridicule the pants-sagging crowd in public.
 
2012-08-11 05:06:51 PM  

just_intonation: So, here's the real problem: lack of parenting.

These parents raise these kids without discipline or moral standards, then send them off to school to learn how to be better hoodlums, and so they can pawn off their responsibilities on the 'gubmint'. The schools are not equipped to deal with the behavioral issues, and they have to turn to the police to enforce order and discipline.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the kids being disciplined by courts, and if that means incarceration of some sort, that's fine by me. While they're at it, they should also incarcerate the parents and/or otherwise hold them responsible for their kids' behavior. Of course, in this liberal state, there is no accountability or personal or familial responsibility -- and that's the real problem.

If it just so happens that the majority of the kids who have had no parental involvement or discipline are of color, that's not racism; it's reality.

/why, yes, my children are well-behaved in school
//they know what the consequences of their actions are


You are a terrible person. I hope one day you realize that, and feel very, very bad for a long time. And then try to do something to make up for your failure as a human being.
 
2012-08-11 05:07:03 PM  

Frederf: Note quizzical expression on school administrators' faces when they were told that their students have civil rights to violate.


This. Most schools treat students more like prisoners than human beings.

/and in some cases, they deserve it
 
2012-08-11 05:10:40 PM  

cig-mkr: just_intonation: So, here's the real problem: lack of parenting.

These parents raise these kids without discipline or moral standards, then send them off to school to learn how to be better hoodlums, and so they can pawn off their responsibilities on the 'gubmint'. The schools are not equipped to deal with the behavioral issues, and they have to turn to the police to enforce order and discipline.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the kids being disciplined by courts, and if that means incarceration of some sort, that's fine by me. While they're at it, they should also incarcerate the parents and/or otherwise hold them responsible for their kids' behavior. Of course, in this liberal state, there is no accountability or personal or familial responsibility -- and that's the real problem.

If it just so happens that the majority of the kids who have had no parental involvement or discipline are of color, that's not racism; it's reality.

/why, yes, my children are well-behaved in school
//they know what the consequences of their actions are

I couldn't imagine being a teacher in today's environment. You couldn't pay me enough to deal with the little punks. And by little punks I mean the kid that has no intention of getting an education and is only there to disrupt the rest of the class. I'm willing to bet that there are teachers out there that could control the class if they could get rid of the little jerks that don't want to be there.


Yeah! There was never any remedy for that until the schools started violating kids' civil rights.

/By jingo!
 
2012-08-11 05:11:01 PM  

James F. Campbell: As a resident of Meridian, MS, I say throw all of the evil motherfarkers -- from top to bottom -- responsible for this farce in jail, then bankrupt the city and county with lawsuits.

farking inbred redneck farktard assholes, all of them.


you are a bigot for just living there ya know. you can't escape punishment for getting all outraged at this late date.
 
2012-08-11 05:11:54 PM  
That's a lot of words to use when they could have just said "uppity".

Mississippi: Making West Virginia look good by comparison since 1861
 
2012-08-11 05:14:03 PM  

Matthew Keene: I'm okay with trying anything to knock some sense into these kids. It isn't happening at home. They get out of school and move into their adult lives completely unemployable. Sagging pants is even the half of it. Try to tell them nicely that they are not doing a work task right and here's the right way, and they are in your face screaming that you're disrespecting them. Show up when they want. Steal anything that isn't tied down. Of course, every 15 minutes you have to tell them to pull up their pants. I say Meridian Schools are trying their best to work through the lack of parenting, kids with the social skills of drunken baboons, and the glorification of the gangsta lifestyle. Trying to get through to them before there is another generation of drains on society that are good for nothing but sitting on the stoop drinking malt liquor, crying about the man keeping them down while collecting assistance or dealing.


Wow, that is a pretty serious situation. Too bad it only exists withing the confines of your mind and not in actual real life. And tell me, would you be okay with me JAILING you because i disliked YOUR attitude? NO? but okay for these kids cause they're "punks" and respect totally isn't a two-way street right?
 
2012-08-11 05:16:23 PM  

Lochsteppe: Thraeryn: This is a state where Morgan Freeman has to offer to foot the bill for a public high school to even attempt a desegregated prom.

The ground may not turn to glass if we detonate a nuclear weapon there, but I doubt anyone outside Alabama or Tennessee will weep.

I bet it would if you used enough.

/Warn James F. Campbell first though.


Hell, I'll set it off.
 
2012-08-11 05:18:14 PM  

poe_zlaw: I dont see why the US just doesnt split up. Like Europe but with more crime.

[suzieqq.files.wordpress.com image 600x368]



less crime actually.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5712573/UK-is-v io lent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html
The figures were sourced from Eurostat, the European Commission's database of statistics. They are gathered using official sources in the countries concerned such as the national statistics office, the national prison administration, ministries of the interior or justice, and police. A breakdown of the statistics, which were compiled into league tables by the Conservatives, revealed that violent crime in the UK had increased from 652,974 offences in 1998 to more than 1.15 million crimes in 2007.

It means there are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the UK, making it the most violent place in Europe. Austria is second, with a rate of 1,677 per 100,000 people, followed by Sweden, Belgium, Finland and Holland. By comparison, America has an estimated rate of 466 violent crimes per 100,000 population. France recorded 324,765 violent crimes in 2007 - a 67 per cent increase in the past decade - at a rate of 504 per 100,000 population.
 
2012-08-11 05:20:21 PM  

James F. Campbell: Lochsteppe: Thraeryn: This is a state where Morgan Freeman has to offer to foot the bill for a public high school to even attempt a desegregated prom.

The ground may not turn to glass if we detonate a nuclear weapon there, but I doubt anyone outside Alabama or Tennessee will weep.

I bet it would if you used enough.

/Warn James F. Campbell first though.

Hell, I'll set it off.


sure you would. virulently anti-bigot just happens to make his home in the bigotry capital of the world.
 
2012-08-11 05:36:49 PM  

RandomRandom: Jail should not be a hammer to punish an underclass who are not as socially trained as we'd like.


...yet because people aren't particularly bright, jail will be used as such.

Hidebound conservative Tory Theodore Dalrymple said, "Tons of people come into the British prison system with borderline malnutrition. Prisoners who received a multivitamin every day had fewer discipline problems than prisoners who received a placebo" in Our Culture, What's Left of It, so I wonder if the next big thing is going to be "Make sure school lunches are actually farking nutritious". Oh wait. Small profits + fewer discipline problems << large profits + more discipline problems. Never mind....
 
2012-08-11 05:38:53 PM  

m2313: just_intonation: No, I was serious. Decent parenting should not be a conservatives-only value, but apparently it is.

And I'm referring to the country, not the state of Mississippi, which is too ignorant to know what the hell it is.

Are you retarded? Most of the fark ups I know came from conservative (socially/religious) homes.
And this country is the furthest right you can be and somehow still be considered a first world country (even though at this point we're a joke and the bridge between first world and third world, on our way to third maybe).
Our two political parties are conservative (D, this may be changing soon but at the moment it stands) and far right fascists (R).
Maybe you'd be happy in a good conservative state like Iran or Saudi Arabia?


Then I suppose the lot of you who responded to me in this vein think that the parents of these children shouldn't be held responsible for their kids' behavior? And that it's acceptable for the kids to act the way they do that led to the school/police/courts resorting to take the kinds of actions they did? No wonder this country is as farked up as it is. I guess it's far too much to ask for people to take responsibility for their actions -- which includes by extension taking responsibility for your minor children's actions (whether you wanted them or not, which is another discussion about taking responsibility in an entirely different vein).

But, since you all obviously think this is acceptable, then let's eliminate all discipline in public schools and see how long they survive -- and then see what the results on society are, hmm?
 
2012-08-11 05:39:51 PM  

BronyMedic: Um [Citation Needed]

Students do have constitutional rights. See Tinker V. Des Moines,


For every Tinker v. Des Moines, there are half a dozen Morse v. Frederick, Vernonia School District v. Acton, New Jersey v. T.L.O., etc.

I was actually shocked when they got it right in Safford Unified School District v. Redding, which is just sad.
 
2012-08-11 05:42:55 PM  

meow said the dog: brerrabbit: Where the fark do school districts get the idea that they can do farked up shiat like this?

Liberal government policies and the intrusion into the lives of the Americans.

/listen someone is bound to state this so I am the one who is getting this out of the way early but seriously these people all need to lose the jobs of them
//civil rights violations really need to be the automatic criminal offenses because maybe that would be the means upon which to stop this poop from the male bovine.


Better be careful, meow. You're not only becoming more coherent, you're making way a lot more sense than you ever used to. Also sounding much more rational than you like to let on.
 
2012-08-11 05:43:12 PM  

just_intonation: And that it's acceptable for the kids to act the way they do that led to the school/police/courts resorting to take the kinds of actions they did?


Arresting students for things that don't break the law is rather ethically dubious. Indeed it's not ethical. Also, interesting you're so quick to assume they did do something to deserve it.
 
2012-08-11 05:57:31 PM  

just_intonation: m2313: just_intonation: No, I was serious. Decent parenting should not be a conservatives-only value, but apparently it is.

And I'm referring to the country, not the state of Mississippi, which is too ignorant to know what the hell it is.

Are you retarded? Most of the fark ups I know came from conservative (socially/religious) homes.
And this country is the furthest right you can be and somehow still be considered a first world country (even though at this point we're a joke and the bridge between first world and third world, on our way to third maybe).
Our two political parties are conservative (D, this may be changing soon but at the moment it stands) and far right fascists (R).
Maybe you'd be happy in a good conservative state like Iran or Saudi Arabia?

Then I suppose the lot of you who responded to me in this vein think that the parents of these children shouldn't be held responsible for their kids' behavior? And that it's acceptable for the kids to act the way they do that led to the school/police/courts resorting to take the kinds of actions they did? No wonder this country is as farked up as it is. I guess it's far too much to ask for people to take responsibility for their actions -- which includes by extension taking responsibility for your minor children's actions (whether you wanted them or not, which is another discussion about taking responsibility in an entirely different vein).

But, since you all obviously think this is acceptable, then let's eliminate all discipline in public schools and see how long they survive -- and then see what the results on society are, hmm?


You're really suggesting that farting or swearing in class is behavior that requires police intervention? That disrespecting a teacher warrants jail time? And why is your only other suggestion to abandon discipline completely and just let a "Lord of the Flies" style anarchy reign? This isn't an all-or-nothing situation here--disciplining students isn't a zero-sum game where someone must "win" and someone therefore must "lose."

Why does the district immediately call the cops for minor violations of the school code anyway? What happened to detention? I can tell you: It's this attitude that "Oh, the parents aren't doing their jobs and these kids won't learn any other way." Because they're rowdy in class like kids are. Or they're rude and disrespectful like kids are. So surely throwing them in jail will fix everything.
 
2012-08-11 06:05:14 PM  

just_intonation: The schools are not equipped to deal with the behavioral issues, and they have to turn to the police to enforce order and discipline.


I was kind of hoping we could use the police for things like civil law enforcement. Order and discipline doesn't really seem like their gig -- that's more what the secret police do.
 
2012-08-11 06:12:43 PM  
Last April 20th, a local high school I was working in went into lockdown for 45 minutes. During that time, the county sheriff deputies brought in two drug dogs and walked one through the student parking lot and had the other dog walk through the school sniffing lockers. Quite a few kids got in trouble for small amounts of weed.

I knew the principal and asked her if she thought is was a good idea a to crush these kids chance of getting to college or the military for a small amount of pot. I got he standard response, "It's illegal to have drugs in school, so we feel justified in doing it." Well, some of those kid's parents pitched a fit and she ended up retiring.
 
2012-08-11 06:23:12 PM  

poe_zlaw: I dont see why the US just doesnt split up. Like Europe but with more crime.

[suzieqq.files.wordpress.com image 600x368]


Wrong borders. Idaho, Montana, Wyoming and Colorado belong with Nevada, Utah, New Mexico and Arizona.

/ That's about what it would take to loosen Utah up a bit.
// Oklahoma can stay with the rest of the bible belt.
/// Or Utah and Idaho can be their own country... Udaho.
 
2012-08-11 06:23:26 PM  

WhyteRaven74: just_intonation: And that it's acceptable for the kids to act the way they do that led to the school/police/courts resorting to take the kinds of actions they did?

Arresting students for things that don't break the law is rather ethically dubious. Indeed it's not ethical. Also, interesting you're so quick to assume they did do something to deserve it.


I'm assuming that the schools have established rules that have been violated by the students, and that it's not uncommon for the schools to engage the police to deal with serious discliplne issues, especially in larger schools/districts. (Note that I'm not saying that's the right thing to do, but it is what has happened because the schools are not equipped to deal with the discipline issues -- hell, most of them aren't even equipped to teach properly, but that's another discussion altogether.) That they have resorted to this en masse in Meridian suggests that they have a larger behavioral problem, which suggests a lack of parenting.

Also it's interesting to note that TFA says they are arrested 'without probable cause'. It didn't actually say they didn't break the law. I actually agree with you that it's not ethical to arrest kids in school for non-lawbreaking behaviors, but it seems that all of you are condoning the behavior that led to the school having to take such drastic measures in the first place...

Gyrfalcon: just_intonation: m2313: just_intonation: No, I was serious. Decent parenting should not be a conservatives-only value, but apparently it is.

And I'm referring to the country, not the state of Mississippi, which is too ignorant to know what the hell it is.

Are you retarded? Most of the fark ups I know came from conservative (socially/religious) homes.
And this country is the furthest right you can be and somehow still be considered a first world country (even though at this point we're a joke and the bridge between first world and third world, on our way to third maybe).
Our two political parties are conservative (D, this may be changing soon but at the moment it stands) and far right fascists (R).
Maybe you'd be happy in a good conservative state like Iran or Saudi Arabia?

Then I suppose the lot of you who responded to me in this vein think that the parents of these children shouldn't be held responsible for their kids' behavior? And that it's acceptable for the kids to act the way they do that led to the school/police/courts resorting to take the kinds of actions they did? No wonder this country is as farked up as it is. I guess it's far too much to ask for people to take responsibility for their actions -- which includes by extension taking responsibility for your minor children's actions (whether you wanted them or not, which is another discussion about taking responsibility in an entirely different vein).

But, since you all obviously think this is acceptable, then let's eliminate all discipline in public schools and see how long they survive -- and then see what the results on society are, hmm?

You're really suggesting that farting or swearing in class is behavior that requires police intervention? That disrespecting a teacher warrants jail time? And why is your only other suggestion to abandon discipline completely and just let a "Lord of the Flies" style anarchy reign? This isn't an all-or-nothing situation here--disciplining students isn't a zero-sum ...


I'm suggesting that they are behaving in ways that are violating established, documented rules and guidelines. If they are breaking the rules, then there should be consequences. I also stated that it's obvious that the school can't handle the disclipline issues and for whatever reason has had to turn to the police and courts to deal with the discipline issues, however heavy-handed that may be and has become. But the point that you seem to be ignoring is the fact that they have to deal with these issues in the first place, which clearly indicates parental abdication. Are you suggesting that it's acceptable to show disrespect to educators, to swear at educators?

I already made my suggestion -- go back and read it. Hold the parents responsible and accountable for their children's actions.. How does that sit with you?
 
2012-08-11 06:24:15 PM  

profplump: just_intonation: The schools are not equipped to deal with the behavioral issues, and they have to turn to the police to enforce order and discipline.

I was kind of hoping we could use the police for things like civil law enforcement. Order and discipline doesn't really seem like their gig -- that's more what the secret police do.


Actually, it should be what the parents do, which has been my point all along...
 
2012-08-11 06:26:41 PM  

AssAsInAssassin: just_intonation: So, here's the real problem: lack of parenting.

These parents raise these kids without discipline or moral standards, then send them off to school to learn how to be better hoodlums, and so they can pawn off their responsibilities on the 'gubmint'. The schools are not equipped to deal with the behavioral issues, and they have to turn to the police to enforce order and discipline.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the kids being disciplined by courts, and if that means incarceration of some sort, that's fine by me. While they're at it, they should also incarcerate the parents and/or otherwise hold them responsible for their kids' behavior. Of course, in this liberal state, there is no accountability or personal or familial responsibility -- and that's the real problem.

If it just so happens that the majority of the kids who have had no parental involvement or discipline are of color, that's not racism; it's reality.

/why, yes, my children are well-behaved in school
//they know what the consequences of their actions are

You are a terrible person. I hope one day you realize that, and feel very, very bad for a long time. And then try to do something to make up for your failure as a human being.


I am a terrible person. I expect people who have children to accept the responsibility for raising them to know the difference between right and wrong, and to become functional and contributive members of society. I'm very, very sorry for that.

/you're a farking moron
 
2012-08-11 06:28:21 PM  

Whatthefark: Last April 20th, a local high school I was working in went into lockdown for 45 minutes. During that time, the county sheriff deputies brought in two drug dogs and walked one through the student parking lot and had the other dog walk through the school sniffing lockers. Quite a few kids got in trouble for small amounts of weed.

I knew the principal and asked her if she thought is was a good idea a to crush these kids chance of getting to college or the military for a small amount of pot. I got he standard response, "It's illegal to have drugs in school, so we feel justified in doing it." Well, some of those kid's parents pitched a fit and she ended up retiring.


This is what zero-tolerance has gotten us. "There's a rule against it, so we have no choice but to punish those who break it to the fullest extent. Because if we don't, things might get worse." And you see the same attitude in a lot of right-leaning posters and intelligent trolls around here. "Well, they shouldn't have broken the law!" "Rules exist to keep us all safe!" "They need to learn there are consequences for their actions!"

All those responses, and the initial attitude, are very authoritarian-personality mindset, but they also reflect the liberal distrust of allowing those in authority any kind of discretion to interpret the rules. Although your principal was obviously a coont about the drug search, the flip side of that would be allowing her latitude to determine which kids should have gone to jail and which kids should have been ignored. Standard liberal fears then focus on potential bias and favoritism.

Personally, I'd rather give those in authority more leeway and be prepared to sanction them for being too lenient or playing favorites, instead of trying to create a law that gives them no leeway at all, but a lot of people on both sides of the aisle disagree with that theory.
 
2012-08-11 06:33:09 PM  
Welcome to Obama's future America.
 
2012-08-11 06:34:07 PM  

Gyrfalcon: What happened to detention?


I meant to answer this specifically... detention went out the door with zero tolerance, and zero tolerance is there because the schools themselves no longer allow the administrators to exercise judgement in dealing with individual cases -- everyone must be treated equally. That's equally harshly now, especially as the kids' behavior spials out of control.
 
2012-08-11 06:38:01 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Whatthefark: Last April 20th, a local high school I was working in went into lockdown for 45 minutes. During that time, the county sheriff deputies brought in two drug dogs and walked one through the student parking lot and had the other dog walk through the school sniffing lockers. Quite a few kids got in trouble for small amounts of weed.

I knew the principal and asked her if she thought is was a good idea a to crush these kids chance of getting to college or the military for a small amount of pot. I got he standard response, "It's illegal to have drugs in school, so we feel justified in doing it." Well, some of those kid's parents pitched a fit and she ended up retiring.

This is what zero-tolerance has gotten us. "There's a rule against it, so we have no choice but to punish those who break it to the fullest extent. Because if we don't, things might get worse." And you see the same attitude in a lot of right-leaning posters and intelligent trolls around here. "Well, they shouldn't have broken the law!" "Rules exist to keep us all safe!" "They need to learn there are consequences for their actions!"

All those responses, and the initial attitude, are very authoritarian-personality mindset, but they also reflect the liberal distrust of allowing those in authority any kind of discretion to interpret the rules. Although your principal was obviously a coont about the drug search, the flip side of that would be allowing her latitude to determine which kids should have gone to jail and which kids should have been ignored. Standard liberal fears then focus on potential bias and favoritism.

Personally, I'd rather give those in authority more leeway and be prepared to sanction them for being too lenient or playing favorites, instead of trying to create a law that gives them no leeway at all, but a lot of people on both sides of the aisle disagree with that theory.


I actually agree with you. As far as the schools go, though, most of the administrators are completely unprepared and ill-eqipped to handle that responsibility, and will be seen as currying favorites if they handle a seemingly identical situation differently with two different individuals. Whether this is an authoritarian mindset or simply a desperate reaction to the situations they find themselves in may be up for debate.
 
2012-08-11 06:38:59 PM  

just_intonation: Gyrfalcon: What happened to detention?

I meant to answer this specifically... detention went out the door with zero tolerance, and zero tolerance is there because the schools themselves no longer allow the administrators to exercise judgement in dealing with individual cases -- everyone must be treated equally. That's equally harshly now, especially as the kids' behavior spials out of control.


True enough. Now I have to ask you another question: Why do you assume the kids' parents aren't "doing anything" about this? I'm really curious to know why your assumption is that kids behaving badly = parents not disciplining their kids. Is it that you think no well-raised child would ever act up in school? That a kid who disrespects the teacher must have a parent who allows him to do this? Maybe the reverse is true, that the parents are so strict the kid is acting out in a place where he doesn't have to worry about getting beat with a 2x4.

Or it could just be kids being kids, you know. Rowdy behavior in class isn't some kind of "gateway behavior" into general lawlessness and chaos. But ruining their lives by sending them to juvenile hall for farting in class just might be.
 
2012-08-11 06:47:22 PM  

AssAsInAssassin: Yeah! There was never any remedy for that until the schools started violating kids' civil rights.


It's called "corporal punishment", and it is still legal in MS. Even the dumbest of students understands pain.
 
2012-08-11 06:49:47 PM  

just_intonation: that it's not uncommon for the schools to engage the police to deal with serious discliplne issues,


Actually it is very uncommon. Indeed in most places the only time police get involved is if a student is found with drugs and/or a weapon or possibly for fighting, though usually not for that. For talking back to teachers, dress code violations and the like? The police aren't called. Mostly because they have no authority to do anything in such cases.
 
2012-08-11 06:58:32 PM  

pianomom:
"Hey Billy....stop farting in class. You're disrupting the learning process."


Even the most mild mannered kid runs in a problem when they aren't allowed to leave the classroom to deal with such things privately... the only question is, does apologising afterwards count as a separate infraction or are the two combined?
 
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