ExperianScaresCthulhu: - If you can't afford the permits, you have no business booking. Find other avenues.
- If an adult fell afoul of this, would we be expected to have the same sympathy?
- This 'for the children' angle is really annoying. The kid is not responsible for making sure there's a roof over everyone's head anyway .. that's strictly on the parents.

When going into business, there are rules to be followed. Some of those rules suck, but they're there because some fool before you fked up. This family sounds like it's a strong believer in 'it's better to ask forgiveness than to ask permission.' Fk them.

Some people have to step up to the plate to help support their family, then there are privledged sounding @ssholes like you.

Brubold: jack21221: It's somewhat shocking to me that the stated intention of the law is to "protect businesses from competition." Don't they usually couch that in language that implies the regulations exist to protect the customers?

Welcome to "capitalist" America.

This has nothing to do with capitalism and everything to do with government's burning desire to regulate the fark out of everything to make more money. Permits and licenses are purely a shakedown in the guise of making us safer.

Did you miss the part about the enforcement being at local restaurants' request?

spawn73: danielscissorhands: The mayor sounds like a heartless a**hole. He will go far in politics.

The original and this article doesn't mention the mayor.

But anyway, what were the city council to do? I am sure they would have ignored the kid, but unfortunatly one of the legitimate stores complained.

If people only had to follow laws when it suited people, the place would suck, or at the very least be full of non-lincensed foodcarts, because of the kid can stay there, so can the 10 mexicans.

That sounds awesome.

KimNorth: Please! Give me a break first of all they don't allow ANY food carts in the area as it is a tourist spot because if they wanted to look like down town LA or Tijuana they wouldn't have bothered to spend so much money on the area nor would businesses pay top dollar for rent.

Plus they lost their home because dad is a drug addict.

0/10, try again. (or better yet, don't)

volodya: This is a great society. Capitalism and laws to protect, not the citizens, but business and the wealthy. What is even better is the populous is convinced they can be wealthy too if they just have faith. A delusional populous is the way to a wonderful system for the wealthy.

Those that can make you believe absurdities ...

machodonkeywrestler: spawn73: danielscissorhands: The mayor sounds like a heartless a**hole. He will go far in politics.

The original and this article doesn't mention the mayor.

But anyway, what were the city council to do? I am sure they would have ignored the kid, but unfortunatly one of the legitimate stores complained.

If people only had to follow laws when it suited people, the place would suck, or at the very least be full of non-lincensed foodcarts, because of the kid can stay there, so can the 10 mexicans.

That sounds awesome.

I've had some great food from street vendors.

AbbeySomeone: Way to crush a kid's entrepenurial spirits city of Holland.
Btw, the family isn't homeless because they shut his stand down, but good angle to play.

Unless that bit of extra money would of made it so they wouldn't of become homeless of course.

AbbeySomeone: machodonkeywrestler: spawn73: danielscissorhands: The mayor sounds like a heartless a**hole. He will go far in politics.

The original and this article doesn't mention the mayor.

But anyway, what were the city council to do? I am sure they would have ignored the kid, but unfortunatly one of the legitimate stores complained.

If people only had to follow laws when it suited people, the place would suck, or at the very least be full of non-lincensed foodcarts, because of the kid can stay there, so can the 10 mexicans.

That sounds awesome.

I've had some great food from street vendors.

Especially in Tijuana.

SharkTrager: jack21221: AbbeySomeone: Way to crush a kid's entrepenurial spirits city of Holland.
Btw, the family isn't homeless because they shut his stand down, but good angle to play.

In a way, they are. The money brought in by the hot dog stand could have been used to help pay bills.

Odd, the money spent on the cart, hot dogs and buns could have done the same thing.

Yes, in the short term. The family was looking for a longer term solution.

machodonkeywrestler: spawn73: danielscissorhands: The mayor sounds like a heartless a**hole. He will go far in politics.

The original and this article doesn't mention the mayor.

But anyway, what were the city council to do? I am sure they would have ignored the kid, but unfortunatly one of the legitimate stores complained.

If people only had to follow laws when it suited people, the place would suck, or at the very least be full of non-lincensed foodcarts, because of the kid can stay there, so can the 10 mexicans.

That sounds awesome.

I guess, as long as there's some oversight as far as foodsafety issues.

But I can see why the people who pay rent to have exclusive access to customers at the site are complaining. And as far as cityofficials, what else could they do? I don't think it's fair to paint them as the bad guys, once there's complaints in, they don't have any option but to uplod the ordinance.


But yeah, I love food carts. Though in the country I live they still have to apply for a permit from the city, and stick to their specific spot. C'est la vie.

Instead of grousing about it why dont we do something about it?

Here is the website for Froggys hotdog and burger joint in downtown Holland Mi.:
http://froggysonline.com/
Go to it and ask the owner to sponsor the kids hotdog cart.

This is what I sent:
I think you must be familiar with this story:
http://www.mackinac.org/17372
Why dont you sponsor the kids hotdogs cart and help him out?
With all the publicity I think it would be a win-win situation

Next email the Mayors Assistant at:
s.vangelderen @ cityofholland.com
Tell him his town is now getting bad publicity and its viral on the internet.

spawn73: danielscissorhands: The mayor sounds like a heartless a**hole. He will go far in politics.

The original and this article doesn't mention the mayor.

But anyway, what were the city council to do? I am sure they would have ignored the kid, but unfortunatly one of the legitimate stores complained.

If people only had to follow laws when it suited people, the place would suck, or at the very least be full of non-lincensed foodcarts, because of the kid can stay there, so can the 10 mexicans.

Are you reading articles without your glasses again?

From TFA:

Last week, Nathan and his family made an appeal to the Holland City Council. Mayor Kurt Dykstra defended the city's ordinance, saying it was to protect downtown restaurant owners, who asked that the "success of the downtown district not be infringed upon by those who don't share in the costs of maintaining the attractiveness of that space."

AbbeySomeone: Way to crush a kid's entrepenurial spirits city of Holland.
Btw, the family isn't homeless because they shut his stand down, but good angle to play.

This...

Having said that... [REDACTED]

*sighs*

[REDACTED]

So, yeah... Umm... I guess I should just be called mean names like a socialist or leftist. That this is acceptable, their being homeless or even having to resort to child labor, is... For lack of better words, bothersome.

However, for a short time at least, they will find themselves in a better place because of this - this that is the attention.

Strobeguy: Instead of grousing about it why dont we do something about it?

Well, it was redacted after careful parsing and thinking and just not getting my post right... But, just because we didn't say we're doing anything doesn't mean we're not doing anything. Some of us don't do things for praise or popularity. I opted to email the author of the article asking them to forward my contact information to them. I intend to offer them a month in a couple of hotel rooms and a small expense account at a local store because I can pay for a hotel with a credit card and wire money to a store that will be happy to have the cash and unlikely to screw the people over due to the publicity potentially involved. I also don't care what they buy with the money at the store, I don't even care if they buy stuff and exchange it for drugs or if they buy alcohol - I know I'd want to get good and wasted at a time like that.

So while we may appear to be just grousing about it, the fact is that we're just not crowing about it in an effort to appear better.

I'll resist the personal attack and try to not think of you as a shallow, hollow, person though. It's difficult but you at least appear to have good motives so, well, yeah - I'll resist though I must mention it.

In case you're curious, it's "in the name of the assholes at Fark.com" which, by proximity, includes even you. You're welcome and I'm sure your emails help. I realize that not everyone has a couple of grand they can toss around at a whim but to assume that we're just whining about it and doing nothing is absurd and I doubt that I'm the only one reaching out. I don't do it for every story that pops up here and I'm usually drunk when I do but sometimes there's just something that makes the difference and I'm sure it is different for each of us.

ExperianScaresCthulhu: The kid is not responsible for making sure there's a roof over everyone's head anyway .. that's strictly on the parents.

As strange as this may sound, a family is a unit that supports one another and contributes to the well being of all members of the family, whether from parent to child or vice versa. Further -- and this might be shocking -- for just about all of history, children have stepped up and contributed a larger share of the work/financial burden than is typical when the family is suffering from a time of crisis, such as, I dunno, both parents being disabled or the family about to be out of a home. Or in this case, both.

I know, I was as surprised as you probably are right now when I learned this!

There are two kinds of people I can't stand. Those who are intolerant of other hot dogs, and the Dutch.

/Holland Mi does have an awesome tulip festival

shoegaze99: ExperianScaresCthulhu: The kid is not responsible for making sure there's a roof over everyone's head anyway .. that's strictly on the parents.

As strange as this may sound, a family is a unit that supports one another and contributes to the well being of all members of the family, whether from parent to child or vice versa. Further -- and this might be shocking -- for just about all of history, children have stepped up and contributed a larger share of the work/financial burden than is typical when the family is suffering from a time of crisis, such as, I dunno, both parents being disabled or the family about to be out of a home. Or in this case, both.

I know, I was as surprised as you probably are right now when I learned this!

Children can't do this anymore. It is considered exploitation or abuse to make them do anything but sit on their asses and surf the web or play video games.

mikdeetx: Why am I thinking one those downtown restaurants is a Chick-fil-a?

Probably has something to do with you never being to michigan

AbbeySomeone: machodonkeywrestler: spawn73: danielscissorhands: The mayor sounds like a heartless a**hole. He will go far in politics.

The original and this article doesn't mention the mayor.

But anyway, what were the city council to do? I am sure they would have ignored the kid, but unfortunatly one of the legitimate stores complained.

If people only had to follow laws when it suited people, the place would suck, or at the very least be full of non-lincensed foodcarts, because of the kid can stay there, so can the 10 mexicans.

That sounds awesome.

I've had some great food from street vendors.

Not to mention the explosive diarrhea.

gja: /oblig

1.bp.blogspot.com

Heh... Thanks. I couldn't parse it while responding to the other person and didn't want to bring it up (I don't think it is anyone's concern what I do to help really) but it's a strange assumption to make. Well, I am not sure, it seems like a strange assumption to make to me.

Though, I admit, I have ulterior motives when I contribute to charitable things. I do it because it helps, sure, but I also do it because it feels good. It feels good even if nobody knows who did it. If people know I find I'll get more requests for help and I seldom contribute to anything or anybody that solicits me for help. So, no, I'm not altruistic or anything, I have my own selfish reasons.

ExperianScaresCthulhu: - If you can't afford the permits, you have no business booking. Find other avenues.
- If an adult fell afoul of this, would we be expected to have the same sympathy?
- This 'for the children' angle is really annoying. The kid is not responsible for making sure there's a roof over everyone's head anyway .. that's strictly on the parents.

When going into business, there are rules to be followed. Some of those rules suck, but they're there because some fool before you fked up. This family sounds like it's a strong believer in 'it's better to ask forgiveness than to ask permission.' Fk them.

And here I was afraid that there weren't any fresh, new Miserable Douchebags on Fark anymore. But you have restored my faith. GOD BLESS YOU SIR!

\he checked with the business owner first, so you'll get over it
\\i would still consider it cruel even if *you* got screwed that way
\\\much like the federal govt, these rules were written by the business community, *for* the business community

ExperianScaresCthulhu: - If you can't afford the permits, you have no business booking. Find other avenues.
- If an adult fell afoul of this, would we be expected to have the same sympathy?
- This 'for the children' angle is really annoying. The kid is not responsible for making sure there's a roof over everyone's head anyway .. that's strictly on the parents.

When going into business, there are rules to be followed. Some of those rules suck, but they're there because some fool before you fked up. This family sounds like it's a strong believer in 'it's better to ask forgiveness than to ask permission.' Fk them.

Right or wrong, you're a tactless dick and I am inclined to oppose your philosophy for that reason alone.

To hell with tactless dicks.

3rdtimearound: Damn Dutch

*ctrl-f* "farking dutch"

Close enough. Thank you. :)

/This is in no way a blanket anti-Dutch sentiment. Just an anti-WestMidMichiganFarkingDutch sentiment.

UnspokenVoice: I don't do it for every story that pops up here and I'm usually drunk when I do but sometimes there's just something that makes the difference and I'm sure it is different for each of us.

*tips hat*

I got all excited because it's Michigan and it starts with an H, but sadly it was not Howell.

/I have a spare room and it's burning a hole in my pocket

The kids mother reason why she can't work... "suffers from epilepsy". Aright then.

This is really no surprise. Where the kid started was pretty close to The Alpen Rose. About the most high end restaurant in the area. I'm sure that one of their d-bag customers had something to say about it because it was encroaching on their experience. You have to keep in mind that 8th street Holland is where the folks like Dick DeVos go to relax. Hotdog carts don't fall into line with their $12m summer homes. I guarantee you that if he was selling Amway he would have unlimited resources to stay in business. This kid was doing nothing more than promotional work when all this started for Reliable Sports and he probably had a pretty good gig considering he was right by Hope college. Those of us that are from the area and don't bring in $1m a day are ashamed to say that we live here and I'm sure that all the DeVos' of the area are ashamed that not everyone around here makes $1m a day.

But I was told that the mayor of certain towns preventing Chik-fil-A from opening was Unconstitutional. Waiting for conservatives to come here and defend this..

If the businesses in the area don't like it they can compete on the free market instead of getting the gestapo to shut down competition.

If I had the funds I would donate.

But I have to say a kid shouldn't start working till they are at least 16. 13 years old is very young to sit outside a building selling hotdogs. How is this kid gonna handle a robber or an unruly customer? What if his hotdogs get people sick? What if he gets the idea that he can just drop out of school and sell hotdogs the rest of his life?

As I learned there are rules to follow, there are deeper meanings to these rules. Rules aren't fun but they are to protect and promote well being. The mother and father to me sound not only physical unwell but psychologically unwell and the kid possibly feels his life is kinda farked over. He doesn't have parents that the other kids have that can at least play with him. Kids in most cases where is a disabled or both parents there is a chance they become their full time caregiver.
Caregiver Children don't do well in school because school has become playtime because mom and dad aren't there to have him clean up. This isn't about playing on the computer or playing video games all day. This is about making sure this kid has the right to have some leisure time to himself so he can have playtime to develop friendships with other children and have a safe home with nutritious meals. The more I think about it the more I think CPS should look into getting this kid's parents the help they need so they don't need to depend on him.

UGOTPZD: The kids mother reason why she can't work... "suffers from epilepsy". Aright then.

Uncle is the same way won't get the surgery cause he is afraid of dying but yet his wife and kid are unhappy and can't do anything because he won't get a job.

KimNorth: Please! Give me a break first of all they don't allow ANY food carts in the area as it is a tourist spot because if they wanted to look like down town LA or Tijuana they wouldn't have bothered to spend so much money on the area nor would businesses pay top dollar for rent.
Know how I know you haven't been in Downtown L.A. in the past 10 years?

It doesn't help that the Drszynski family isn't blond-haired & blue-eyed. "If you ain't Dutch, you ain't much" is the unofficial motto 'round these here parts. But what's a little racism among Caucasians?

In every town & city, red tape is contrived at the behest of the business establishment to disenfranchise outside competition. It's enacted by City Councilmen who are often the business establishment themselves. ("Pro-business" campaign slogans sound familiar?)

IMO this has caused the decline of the classic American-as-hell mom & pop restaurant -- and restaurant entrepreneurship is now almost impossible for an individual. This has also given rise to your friendly neighborhood Corporate Restaurant Investment Group throughout the land... and its hegemony.

Look at any Fark restaurant thread and this corporate hegemony is glaring.

Kind of reminds me of that old poem:

When God made the Irish, he didn't make much,
But a hell of a lot more than the Goddamned Dutch!

CoonAce: KimNorth: Please! Give me a break first of all they don't allow ANY food carts in the area as it is a tourist spot because if they wanted to look like down town LA or Tijuana they wouldn't have bothered to spend so much money on the area nor would businesses pay top dollar for rent.
Know how I know you haven't been in Downtown L.A. in the past 10 years?

It doesn't help that the Drszynski family isn't blond-haired & blue-eyed. "If you ain't Dutch, you ain't much" is the unofficial motto 'round these here parts. But what's a little racism among Caucasians?

In every town & city, red tape is contrived at the behest of the business establishment to disenfranchise outside competition. It's enacted by City Councilmen who are often the business establishment themselves. ("Pro-business" campaign slogans sound familiar?)

IMO this has caused the decline of the classic American-as-hell mom & pop restaurant -- and restaurant entrepreneurship is now almost impossible for an individual. This has also given rise to your friendly neighborhood Corporate Restaurant Investment Group throughout the land... and its hegemony.

Look at any Fark restaurant thread and this corporate hegemony is glaring.

I REALLY wish you were wrong.

Daddydarko: Sad for the boy but kind of glad the magnifying glass might linger a little longer at the oppressive Dutch Christian Reformed here. These people are nuts.

The good news is that they're getting old and our demographic is changing (Hispanic, Asian). Maybe someday in my lifetime we'll be known for something other then our stick-up-the-butt Dutch founders.

/holland, MI Farker

I lived in Holland for 10 miserable years. When I first moved there it was illegal to mow your lawn on Sunday. The new Meijer was being protested because it was open on Sunday. The saying was, "If you ain't Dutch, you ain't much."

/hated that place
//They hated teh gheys in Saugatuck, but not so much that they wouldn't stand in line there to buy beer on Sunday

jack21221: It's somewhat shocking to me that the stated intention of the law is to "protect businesses from competition." Don't they usually couch that in language that implies the regulations exist to protect the customers?

Welcome to "capitalist" America.

If you mean the taxpayers of the town and the residents that work in those restaurants, then yes. It makes sense that the town would have this as part of their zoning. Downtown and main streets have been hurt by malls, strip malls, and places like walmart. It does not serve the community if a business that pays taxes and multiple employers goes out of business or has to fire workers because someone that pays neither opens shop.

soj4life: jack21221: It's somewhat shocking to me that the stated intention of the law is to "protect businesses from competition." Don't they usually couch that in language that implies the regulations exist to protect the customers?

Welcome to "capitalist" America.

If you mean the taxpayers of the town and the residents that work in those restaurants, then yes. It makes sense that the town would have this as part of their zoning. Downtown and main streets have been hurt by malls, strip malls, and places like walmart. It does not serve the community if a business that pays taxes and multiple employers goes out of business or has to fire workers because someone that pays neither opens shop.

That's called capitalism. If a business fails due to added competition then they are failing at the free market and should go out of business.

Capitalism at its finest.


If the restaurants are losing to a hot dog stand I would question the restaurant rather than the hot dog stand.

The City really had no choice. What were they supposed to do with the next guy who just set up a hot dog cart? Oh, we have to shut you down for not having the proper permits, but THAT cart over there is run by a kid, with sick parents, it's OK.

StreetlightInTheGhetto: phojochris: Good job Holland. You were getting such great press already for being a city full of bigots that hates "the gays" more than any other city in the mitten....

Oh, that's not even true. Although it does get them in the news.

/in the summer heat I might

Between public comment at the city council meetings and the public civil rights forum the state had there, I have heard the most backwoods bigoted narrow minded word vomit in my life. Equating homosexuals with pedophiles and beastiality, and people saying I shouldn't have to let them gays rent my apartment or give them queers a job because, Jesus. The number of times I heard "the gay agenda"... and this wasn't in some back room klan style meeting , this was full public view with news cameras trained on them and a clapping audience. One of the times in my life that I was truly shocked speechless at work. And it's not just the constituents, the same dreck has spewed out of coucilmember Whitemans mouth too, albeit a bit more nuanced.

This is being blown and spun way out of proportion. A part time summer hot dog stand run by a kid is not going to support his family financially year round, and its not going to make a single restaurant the least bit concerned. Sure some old dutch assholes made some pretty dumb moves and are regretting it, but I live in Holland and nobody should be surprised because that's what they do. End of rant.

I wouldn't say they'd do "ANYTHING" to shut out competition, but they absolutely will secure alignment with Councilmen & Planning Dept to rig the system of red tape in their favor, such as to secure favorable zoning & permit/license protocol ... for starters.

Alcohol Beverage Outlets can be tricky though. Councilmen are not only businessmen but also homeowners; thus they do the bidding of both groups, and ABOs can pit homeowners against owners of ABOs (who are businessmen, obviously). It's a somewhat different can of worms. But not really IMO.

So City Councils rigged that too! Many places have stopped issuing liquor licenses. Or even if you do have one, a liquor license is not sufficient to legally sell alcohol -- you must have a Conditional Use Permit (CUP), the terms of which can be mild (must have 60% food sales) or so restrictive as to doom you to failure. I've seen CUP restrictions that prohibit all signage indicating the sale of alcoholic beverages, for instance. Or prohibiting sales past X o'clock. And those could be 2 of 20+ restrictions on a bar's CUP ... if the City Council sees fit. Or they'll fark you via arcane zoning regulation.

It is so goddamn difficult for an individual to be a restaurant/bar entrepreneur. Corporate hegemony has totally corrupted the American dream.

jeffrey626: This is being blown and spun way out of proportion. ... nobody should be surprised because that's what they do.

See what I mean?

More government please. Sounds like restraint of trade to me.

The city of Holland, however, shut down the business 10 minutes after it opened, informing Nathan it was in the city's commercial district where food carts not connected to downtown brick-and-motor restaurants are prohibited

Why doesn't some brick and -motor restaurant sponsor the hot dog cart?

Lligeret: Morons pretending that suppressing entrepreneurship is the definition of Capitalism at its finest.

FTFY.

Seriously, the Obama fans must be getting desperate, now that they've moved from "pre-emptive insane troll logic" to "Humpty Dumpty logic."

/if you believe freedom is slavery, you will eventually also believe slavery is freedom

machodonkeywrestler: Brubold: jack21221: It's somewhat shocking to me that the stated intention of the law is to "protect businesses from competition." Don't they usually couch that in language that implies the regulations exist to protect the customers?

Welcome to "capitalist" America.

This has nothing to do with capitalism and everything to do with government's burning desire to regulate the fark out of everything to make more money. Permits and licenses are purely a shakedown in the guise of making us safer.

Did you miss the part about the enforcement being at local restaurants' request?

No, I didn't. But the government's willingness to do their bidding is about as anti-free market as you can get. Again, nothing to do with capitalism. Everything to do with government interference in the marketplace. These rules that require all these permits and licenses were setup because certain businesses greased the palms of their local politicians. If the rules don't exist we have a more open free market. It's the government's decision to interfere for their own profit that's the root cause of the problem here. All they had to say is, "No, we won't do it" when these rules were requested of them.