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(Salon)   The dangers of being a public school teacher. Suddenly, uniforms don't seem like a bad idea   (salon.com) divider line 102
    More: Scary, Third Avenue, ballerinas, No Child Left Behind, special educations, teachers  
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16535 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Aug 2012 at 1:40 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-11 01:09:22 AM
FTA: "These kids pushed each other out of seats, fell on the floor, hurdled over desks, stepped on each other to come in and go out."

Sounds like they need to hire Ms. Bitters to teach that class.
 
2012-08-11 01:26:23 AM

PacManDreaming: FTA: "These kids pushed each other out of seats, fell on the floor, hurdled over desks, stepped on each other to come in and go out."

Sounds like they need to hire Ms. Bitters to teach that class.


img515.imageshack.us
 
2012-08-11 01:45:52 AM
"I wanted to change lives!"

GOAL ACCOMPLISHED!
 
2012-08-11 01:48:04 AM
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-08-11 01:52:11 AM
Yet suggest the government GTFO of education or implement a voucher system, and the first people to rally against it are the teachers...
 
2012-08-11 01:53:46 AM

Ringo48: Yet suggest the government GTFO of education or implement a voucher system, and the first people to rally against it are the teachers...


Becuase it would just make the system worse?
/You seriously want to privatized education?
 
2012-08-11 01:59:02 AM
you have to start fro a position of strength

i50.tinypic.com
 
2012-08-11 01:59:51 AM
*from, dammit
 
2012-08-11 02:01:12 AM

thatboyoverthere: Becuase it would just make the system worse?
/You seriously want to privatized education?


Of course they do.

It would let them further separate and segregate based on various factors.
 
2012-08-11 02:04:34 AM
How to destroy an Educational System:

1) Start suing the school system for everything under the sun, including your kid being too stupid to learn to read or so arrogant that you sue because he/she did not make Valedictorian.

2) Scream RACISM because your folks aren't smart enough to encourage you NOT to talk 'Ghetto or Street' in class and get offended if the teachers try and make you speak normally.

3) Invent 'Ebonics', promoting the butchering of the English Language since assorted 'minorities' can't seem to understand anything but 'street' and are proud of it.

4) Sue the pi$$ out of any educational employee who lays a finger on your child, defend his/her rights to be an obnoxious little shiat and back that up with the 'No Hit' generation philosophy.

5) Have your government officials change the way math is done, because it's hard to do it like the rest of the world and you don't understand it, so dumb it down and make your kids stupider.

6) Wrap the schools in chain link fences, install guards, security camera's and check points because of thugs due to #4.
7) Sue over your kid's right to be a pain in the arse, which you consider expressing himself, when in reality he is taking advantage of the fact that he knows he can get away with nearly anything because of 'Children's Rights'.

8) Burn books that might actually teach your kids to think because they POSSIBLY mention homosexuality, racism or have religious overtones.

9) Shout discrimination (race, religion, sex -- it doesn't matter) whenever your kid gets chastised for being a pain in the arse, refuses to study, gets poor grades or caught bullying and shaking down other, weaker students.

10) Make DAMN SURE any adult educator CAN be accused of any sexual offense by any student for ANY reason and automatically have his or her life and career ruined and ended long before being proven innocent.

11) Apply the 'No Child Left Behind' act, designed by the terminally stupid, for the terminally stupid and defended by the terminally stupid and let teachers feel that their efforts to educate come to absolutely nothing.

12) Toss in so much religious conflict that educators have absolutely no idea what is or is not allowed anymore. Make sure they KNOW the lawyers will come calling if they f**k up and the school board will throw them to the wolves.

13) Make sure that the cafeteria food, once praised for quality and nutrition, is now damned and disclosed as being one step above poison, made and served by slobs and not good enough for your kid BUT all of the corporate installed snack and soda machines are just fine.

13-A) Machines which were never allowed until the 'recession' hit and the companies offered a cut of the action to the cash strapped schools.

13-B) The Organics craze destroys the common sense and sanity of nearly everyone who used to know what was good to eat.

14) Allow teachers to be physically and verbally abused by parents and students for little pay, long hours and demanding schedules.

15) Have the Government impose ridiculous rules and regulations, poorly thought out and hastily applied, which, if not exactly followed, can result in major funding cuts.

16) Cut the school funding anyhow for whatever reason.

17) Make sure the educators know that they are no longer respected by anyone.

Then wonder why our kids are rapidly becoming the dumbest in the world.
 
2012-08-11 02:10:38 AM
Speaking as someone from a country where schools generally have uniforms; I've no idea what problem you Americans think will be solved by putting a kid in, what amounts to, a miniature business suit.

It won't stop bullying, it won't stop the violent kids being violent, it won't stop them getting needle tracks in their arms or the school bike getting pregnant... again, nor will it stop said violent kids being violent towards the teachers either. It won't stop some random kid who was in the wrong place at the wrong time being shived in the woodwork class either.

What it will do though, is allow schools to be more selective about who they take in; if you can't afford the specific uniform needed which is sold only in a few specific stores and due to being a specific (and obviously not generic colour like say... brown) is expensive; this won't stop the violent kids appearing in your school though.

It's a problem with schools in deprived areas not that the little bastards aren't wearing suits to school.
 
2012-08-11 02:12:43 AM
Bitter much?
 
2012-08-11 02:17:47 AM

Vaneshi: What it will do though, is allow schools to be more selective about who they take in; if you can't afford the specific uniform needed which is sold only in a few specific stores and due to being a specific (and obviously not generic colour like say... brown) is expensive;


That's a non-issue for public schools - they'd have to supply the uniforms. As it is, the only schools in the US who require uniforms tend to be private schools, and they generally perform better than the public schools.
 
2012-08-11 02:19:47 AM
Seriously, I really believe there are kids who should be left behind. Not everybody is college material, why do we try and educate every single kid as if they were?

That and if you are going to have high stakes tests, you better make it matter to the kids. If not, it is amazing how little effort some kids will put forth and how pretty a pattern they can make with the bubbles. The good kids will always do well, but the others.....
 
2012-08-11 02:19:57 AM
It's pretty cool they (teachers) have to more or less take as many classes as a Master's to finish their credential then they get paid about 1/3 as much as cops with a HS education and plus have a shiatty retirement package, from what I hear. No backup, no vest, no radio, and no gun. Talking about inner city teaching jobs. It's probably a great job in small towns, but no one seems to make any distinction, it's all generically "teaching".
 
2012-08-11 02:21:00 AM

Ringo48: Yet suggest the government GTFO of education or implement a voucher system, and the first people to rally against it are the teachers...




Uhh yeah because everyone has a right to quality education and I personally find it morally repulsive to disenfranchise someone because they were born into an impoverished family. That is the reason why even states that have voucher systems still have public schools (woefully underfunded that in turn results in underachieving, but woefully underfunded public schools).
 
2012-08-11 02:22:06 AM
Nice 17 Rik01. You are dreaming crab66. Those uniforms are subsidized Vaneshi.
 
2012-08-11 02:24:56 AM
It's worth a try.

www.3wishes.com
 
2012-08-11 02:26:52 AM
The continue reading does not work with FF14
 
2012-08-11 02:27:04 AM

Vaneshi: Speaking as someone from a country where schools generally have uniforms; I've no idea what problem you Americans think will be solved by putting a kid in, what amounts to, a miniature business suit.

...

What it will do though, is allow schools to be more selective about who they take in; if you can't afford the specific uniform needed which is sold only in a few specific stores and due to being a specific (and obviously not generic colour like say... brown) is expensive; this won't stop the violent kids appearing in your school though.

It's a problem with schools in deprived areas not that the little bastards aren't wearing suits to school.


Speaking as someone from a country where schools generally have uniforms and whose uniform was brown (the school was built in the 70s, the parents voted for brown because some fashions are timeless) I can only say...THIS.
 
2012-08-11 02:28:03 AM
FTA: During the following week, I questioned some of the routine practices that I noticed at the school. I asked the administration why security guards yelled at kids on the way to their portable classrooms, about loitering, or tucking in their shirts. I asked why no one was coming to help the five special education kids that I learned I had in one class. I asked why my seventh graders wouldn't be reading novels and were told to use five adjectives in one sentence. One sentence! I asked why an administrator took a kid onto the porch and screamed at him. "Shut your mouth," she said, for all to hear. I asked why the six disruptive kids from my class couldn't be combined with the six disruptive kids from another class, so that the rest could learn without interruption. I asked why the kids were rushed while they were eating breakfast in the cafeteria. It was bad enough that they had to eat breakfast in the cafeteria.

By the end of the week, the principal and assistant principal had had enough questioning, apparently, so they called me into their office and yelled at me, too. During the following eight days, assorted administrators observed me in class six times. Soon after, one of them handed me a legal document, a formal evaluation of my teaching ability that would be submitted to the school district. I was sub-par in every category. Despite my Ivy League English degree, master's, and 25 years of professional reading and writing experience, I was unfit to teach reading and writing to impoverished minority kids who, at 13, were reading and writing at about a second grade level. I had performed "Below Expectations." I didn't instruct the 26 kids to use the one working computer, so I had failed "to use technology in the classroom." A student "twirled her hair," so I was "ineffective."


Bullying adults create bullying children, yet I bet that plenty of morons in this thread will suggest that what the children need is more bullying.

/Yeah, that's the ticket.
 
2012-08-11 02:28:38 AM

Vaneshi: Speaking as someone from a country where schools generally have uniforms; I've no idea what problem you Americans think will be solved by putting a kid in, what amounts to, a miniature business suit.

...

What it will do though, is allow schools to be more selective about who they take in; if you can't afford the specific uniform needed which is sold only in a few specific stores and due to being a specific (and obviously not generic colour like say... brown) is expensive; this won't stop the violent kids appearing in your school though.

It's a problem with schools in deprived areas not that the little bastards aren't wearing suits to school.


Speaking as someone from a country where schools generally have uniforms and whose uniform was brown (the school was built in the 70s, the parents voted for brown because some fashions are timeless) let me be the first to say...THIS.
 
2012-08-11 02:29:38 AM

Lsherm:
That's a non-issue for public schools - they'd have to supply the uniforms. As it is, the only schools in the US who require uniforms tend to be private schools, and they generally perform better than the public schools.


To quote from a show around these parts: You may think that, I couldn't possibly comment.

/Went to a bog standard state school (i.e. public).
//Uniform cost about £300 in the 80's ($470usd according to xe.com).
///No, the schools won't be supplying them... trust me they won't. Really.
 
2012-08-11 02:29:56 AM

thatboyoverthere: Becuase it would just make the system worse?
/You seriously want to privatized education?


I'm not really for vouchers; I don't think they address the fundamental problems with our eduction system. But this argument about "privatizing education" is ridiculous, and it's unfair to dismiss the potential benefits of vouchers -- for all the kids stuck in the current system -- with that biased framing.

A) Currently, without vouchers, private education is available, in addition to public education. With vouchers private eduction would continue to be available, in addition to public eduction. I'm not sure how that results in "privatizing education", other than it allows poor people to consider private schools that they could not previously afford.

B) Under any sane voucher system public schools will still get funding for most of their fixed costs -- only the marginal cost of educating an additional student would be available for transfer to other institutions. People proposing that capital spending/etc. also be rolled into vouchers are clearly off-the-mark, and if you want to dismiss them specifically with "privatizing education" I'm behind you 100%.

C) Voucher usage doesn't necessarily mean the related student attends a private school. It could mean they attend a different public school than the one they would usually be assigned by geography. Providing re-assignable per-student funding could help good public schools serve more students, rather than turning them away because they've reached capacity, and encourage states to allow transfers among public schools within a city/state/etc. In theory it could even allow good schools to assume some of the facilities of bad schools and expand their operations geographically.
 
2012-08-11 02:31:38 AM
Just like everything else the government has stuck it's nose it... they regulate and rule the system into the ground.

The fact our court system has been used as a tool to give every bleeding heart idiot a chance to suck millions out of the system and forever lock down the most common sense of ideas.

Let's not fault the parents at all - who knew that you would have to watch over your child for 18 years and not pawn them off to a government system. The reason kids do drugs/shoot up schools/steal/bully is because for the past 25 years parents/teachers have had any and all rights to discipline a child taken away. Kids are dumb, but they are not THAT dumb. When they look around and see that they can get away with ANYTHING they damn sure will try to.

When a 5 year old realizes he won't get spanked for stealing some candy, over the years they just get bolder and bolder, he got away with A, so he will try to get away with B. While mom and dad work 60 hours a week to try and keep up the payments on the BMW they are underwater on. The sucky thing is it's not a problem you can fix in a few months or years. It's an entire generation or two that's been raised wrong.

The solution -- get off your ass and do some parenting. When little johnny farks up, spank him. What's that? Don't believe in hitting your kids? Have a seat over there, you are part of the problem.
 
2012-08-11 02:37:53 AM
Interesting read, but was anybody else very distracted by the ad on the side of the page, by the writing, that followed you as you scrolled, had no "x" button, and flashed ("refreshed itself") every 8 seconds or so?
 
2012-08-11 02:40:38 AM

Lsherm: Vaneshi: What it will do though, is allow schools to be more selective about who they take in; if you can't afford the specific uniform needed which is sold only in a few specific stores and due to being a specific (and obviously not generic colour like say... brown) is expensive;

That's a non-issue for public schools - they'd have to supply the uniforms. As it is, the only schools in the US who require uniforms tend to be private schools, and they generally perform better than the public schools.


Actually they don't. As it turns out family is the deciding factor of performance in schools when all things are considered equal (aka when you compare schools with comparable funding/resources available). If you compare a public school in say Mississippi to a private school in Mississippi the private school there is a drastic difference in resources available that even if you have two equal students in each school the private school student will perform better. The same will show up in urban public schools compared to private schools. This is where many studies comparing private vs public schools fall apart.

However if you go to states that have not destroyed there public school systems you will find most of the public schools outside of urban settings are on par with private schools (again a direct result of funding). The difference at these locations comes down to families and their involvement in the kids education.


Private schools also do not have to actually deal with bad or problem students if they do not want to, public schools do.


It is really easy to claim something is better than another when you compare apples to oranges. It is another story when you compare apples to apples.
 
2012-08-11 02:40:38 AM
From one of her other articles at HuffPo:

"One of my seventh graders couldn't keep her head off the desk after lunch. When she could, she'd start up with the other kids, either swat them or flirt, whichever the mood. Turns out, Maria* slept on a couch in her grandmother's apartment with five kids, all half-siblings, same mom, five different dads. One got a child support cash card from her father and didn't share. The mom, who was in jail, left money for the kids, but Grandma spent it on herself and her boyfriend, and the boyfriend's brother and girlfriend, all of whom lived in the apartment. Maria cooked for the kids, every night, went shopping at the market. Her life hindered her learning. Should I lose my job for this? Should I lose my job if another mother didn't have the money for pre-natal care? If kids move homes three times in a month? If parents can't speak English?"
 
2012-08-11 02:44:58 AM

accelerus: When a 5 year old realizes he won't get spanked for stealing some candy, over the years they just get bolder and bolder


I know you don't care and you won't read this, but you are wrong. Spanking leads to an increase of behavioral problems in the future, including an increased willingness to use violence themselves.
 
2012-08-11 02:45:18 AM

profplump: thatboyoverthere: Becuase it would just make the system worse?
/You seriously want to privatized education?

I'm not really for vouchers; I don't think they address the fundamental problems with our eduction system. But this argument about "privatizing education" is ridiculous, and it's unfair to dismiss the potential benefits of vouchers -- for all the kids stuck in the current system -- with that biased framing.

A) Currently, without vouchers, private education is available, in addition to public education. With vouchers private eduction would continue to be available, in addition to public eduction. I'm not sure how that results in "privatizing education", other than it allows poor people to consider private schools that they could not previously afford.

B) Under any sane voucher system public schools will still get funding for most of their fixed costs -- only the marginal cost of educating an additional student would be available for transfer to other institutions. People proposing that capital spending/etc. also be rolled into vouchers are clearly off-the-mark, and if you want to dismiss them specifically with "privatizing education" I'm behind you 100%.

C) Voucher usage doesn't necessarily mean the related student attends a private school. It could mean they attend a different public school than the one they would usually be assigned by geography. Providing re-assignable per-student funding could help good public schools serve more students, rather than turning them away because they've reached capacity, and encourage states to allow transfers among public schools within a city/state/etc. In theory it could even allow good schools to assume some of the facilities of bad schools and expand their operations geographically.


Ah yes that's sound like a good and well thought out plan. Which means that it will never be implemented.
 
2012-08-11 02:45:47 AM
For f--k's sake.

Like the USPS delivering to BFE while FedEx and UPS save $ by paying them to deliver difficult cases...

Public schiols are by far from perfect, but a) they have to educate ALL the young, including those charters get to reject.

Benefit to society? Well, my cousin's mentally retarded half brother holds down two (albeit manual labor) jobs and he's paying INTO the system (and to his half sister who has taken him in wholeheartedly; she will freely state that w/o the education and job placement for him she could not afford to send her daughter to a decent college).

B) tying in funding to property taxes about guarantees failure of many schools before you even address bigger issues like parental involvement, etc.

/educated in (gifted) public school programs
//6 years of awesome education I got that has since been cut due to budget issues
///of course I got "lucky"; my parents couldn't afford decent private schools anyway. OK Catholic if the program got cut while I was in it (always a threat) but that was it...
 
2012-08-11 02:54:44 AM

James F. Campbell: accelerus: When a 5 year old realizes he won't get spanked for stealing some candy, over the years they just get bolder and bolder

I know you don't care and you won't read this, but you are wrong. Spanking leads to an increase of behavioral problems in the future, including an increased willingness to use violence themselves.


Absolutely agree. Hitting is never right. There is a good point there, When there are no concenquences for their actions people get bolder and bolder.

Another wonderful thought is entitlement. When I was a kid, i was responsible for my grades. A few years ago I had students (and colleagues including administrators) who believed that they should be allowed to take the test as many times as necessary to get the grade they wanted. Who expected extra credit to raise your grade significantly and it should be no more onerous than bringing in a box of tissues.

I could keep going.....
 
2012-08-11 02:55:52 AM

Sgt. Expendable: From one of her other articles at HuffPo:

"One of my seventh graders couldn't keep her head off the desk after lunch. When she could, she'd start up with the other kids, either swat them or flirt, whichever the mood. Turns out, Maria* slept on a couch in her grandmother's apartment with five kids, all half-siblings, same mom, five different dads. One got a child support cash card from her father and didn't share. The mom, who was in jail, left money for the kids, but Grandma spent it on herself and her boyfriend, and the boyfriend's brother and girlfriend, all of whom lived in the apartment. Maria cooked for the kids, every night, went shopping at the market. Her life hindered her learning. Should I lose my job for this? Should I lose my job if another mother didn't have the money for pre-natal care? If kids move homes three times in a month? If parents can't speak English?"


Compelling. I thought I'd add the link to the article.

Pamela Kripke: To Cheat or Not to Cheat
 
2012-08-11 02:58:53 AM
I'm also a journalist who went into teaching in Hawaii in 2001. I lasted one year because the state (Hawaii only has one Dept of Education for the whole state) could not agree with the union as to how much money someone with a masters degree should make annually. The year before I was hired, the teachers here went on strike for better pay and conditions. The battle continued the entire school year I was here.

I started my career at the outset of NCLB, so I still had the liberty to teach my students the things I felt should be valued in education, much like Ms. Kripke. My students got the best scores on the AP test, despite having 25 kids in the class and no pre-test to thin the herd. Parents would later lament to the state school board about "losing a quality teacher like Ms. Cicotello," but I left, exhausted from never knowing how much I was making from paycheck to paycheck.

My students also learned more than they needed to about me when my story of growing up with a parent who is transgendered appeared in Cosmopolitan. That school year, I was flown to NYC in the wake of 9/11 to appear on Montel Williams. Because of the way I handled these events in my classroom, not one parent complained. One parent pulled me aside and said my level of sharing with her son actually made me part of their family.

Fast forward a decade and I decide to dip my toes back into education in Hawaii. By now, the pay scale has been set for years. Our teachers dealt with the ramifications of 13 days of furloughs in recent years, effectively lowering their salaries. But I want back in because several of my students came back and said I made a difference in their lives. While vetted on the state level, I only got two interviews in the schools. Both times I was hammered about standardized testing, which was only coming online when I taught a decade ago. I remain unemployed, but hope that, even with having my Master of Arts in Teaching, I might be able to qualify to be a substitute teacher (...)

The education system is fatally flawed in America. It is designed merely to teach students how to be good little worker bees. Be in the office by 8am, go home at 5pm and don't touch my red Swingline stapler. Don't question your bosses. Some animals are more equal than others. This was not what I signed on for when I stepped away from my career as a journalist to be a teacher. We must reclaim these classrooms or our students will be lost forever. Aloha.
 
2012-08-11 03:00:28 AM
Vaneshi
//Uniform cost about £300 in the 80's ($470usd according to xe.com)

What the hell were they made out of? Crushed purple snails?

Or was the shop applying the standard gouge-the-captive-market fee?
 
2012-08-11 03:05:13 AM
I was amazed to read the bit where 7th graders weren't reading novels. I graduated from high school in 1997, I remember being assigned novels to read as early as the fifth grade, possibly even in the fourth grade. I do remember in the fourth grade there being a poster in the classroom. On one side was our names and next to it was the number of novels that we personally read that year. It was part of a corporate sponsored event to get kids to read more. For every X number of books we got a coupon for a free personal pan pizza.

Now I didn't go to college until 2002. I was amazed that I had classmates who managed to graduate from high school but not know basic algebra or understand scientific notation. And these were students who were in the engineering department. Many either dropped out or changed majors when they were told that the engineering majors would involve more complex math than a simple alegbra equation. And the bit about scientific notation, I learned that in the fifth grade. Yes, I will admit that my dad was military and that we moved around a bit and I graduated high school and attended college in Texas and I learned scientific notation in a school on a military base in Alaska, but still, I do you get a high school diploma and then ask the professor "What is scientific notation?" on your first day of college? I can only figure this is home schooling by someone who wasn't smarter than a fifth grader.

My mom was telling me about school supply shopping for my two neices last night. It's completely assinine. When I was young, a backpack, three ring binder, pencils, pen and a calculator was pretty much all you really needed. And that was fifth grade. This soon to be fifth grader, my neice, has to have a back pack (okay), four three ring binders and they had to be certain colors (no designs, solid colors) and certain sizes. A small tablet as a journal, a small lab journal as well (the same ones we used in college), 30 number 2 pencils, crayons, five boxes of klenex, scissors, sharpies, folders (certain colors also), and the list got even more assinine as it continued. I asked my mom "Is there an inventory on day one to confirm that she brought 30 pencils? Can't she just start with five and then she can bring in five more later on as needed?" My mom answered with "You know, I asked that same question. The answer is that on day one they turn in all 30 pencils, that way if a kid forgets his pencil at home, there is a class room supply that they can take from." I asked "Wouldn't the fifth grade be the point to start teaching personal responsibility and tell the kids that they are responsible for their own farking pencils and if they forget theirs at home to borrow from another classmate, like we did in school?"

I'm just going to feel sorry for these kids. Four three ring binders. I'm assuming it's one binder per subject. And there were nights in the fifth grade when I had homework in all subjects, so if that happens frequently, then in September it won't really be a big deal, but come March, that is going to suck for the kids lugging home backpacks with four text books and four heavy binders. I wonder if the backpacks can take it?
 
2012-08-11 03:05:30 AM

Thecyanide: Absolutely agree. Hitting is never right. There is a good point there, When there are no concenquences for their actions people get bolder and bolder.


You have a learning disability, so I'm going to say this slowly and with smaller words: they studied children and how those children were punished. Some children were punished with physical violence, and others were not. The children who were punished with physical violence became more violent than other children, and when they grew up, they were more likely to be bad members of society.
 
2012-08-11 03:05:42 AM

thatboyoverthere: Ringo48: Yet suggest the government GTFO of education or implement a voucher system, and the first people to rally against it are the teachers...

Becuase it would just make the system worse?
/You seriously want to privatized education?


Nonsense. Under a voucher system parents are allocated a certain amount of money for their child's education and they get to choose which school gets the money.

There's nothing stopping the parents from choosing the existing public school. If the public schools are really better than the private schools then the public schools will stay in business and the system will be no better or worse than it already is.

Of course the teacher's union doesn't want to compete with private schools, so we keep the shiatty system we have.
 
2012-08-11 03:08:06 AM

PsychoLaurie: The education system is fatally flawed in America. It is designed merely to teach students how to be good little worker bees. Be in the office by 8am, go home at 5pm and don't touch my red Swingline stapler.


Take a look around you on Fark. These feebs will mock you and call you stupid if you do anything but be a good worker bee. You're in the wrong place, honey.
 
2012-08-11 03:11:00 AM

PsychoLaurie: I'm also a journalist who went into teaching in Hawaii in 2001. I lasted one year because the state (Hawaii only has one Dept of Education for the whole state) could not agree with the union as to how much money someone with a masters degree should make annually. The year before I was hired, the teachers here went on strike for better pay and conditions. The battle continued the entire school year I was here.

I started my career at the outset of NCLB, so I still had the liberty to teach my students the things I felt should be valued in education, much like Ms. Kripke. My students got the best scores on the AP test, despite having 25 kids in the class and no pre-test to thin the herd. Parents would later lament to the state school board about "losing a quality teacher like Ms. Cicotello," but I left, exhausted from never knowing how much I was making from paycheck to paycheck.

My students also learned more than they needed to about me when my story of growing up with a parent who is transgendered appeared in Cosmopolitan. That school year, I was flown to NYC in the wake of 9/11 to appear on Montel Williams. Because of the way I handled these events in my classroom, not one parent complained. One parent pulled me aside and said my level of sharing with her son actually made me part of their family.

Fast forward a decade and I decide to dip my toes back into education in Hawaii. By now, the pay scale has been set for years. Our teachers dealt with the ramifications of 13 days of furloughs in recent years, effectively lowering their salaries. But I want back in because several of my students came back and said I made a difference in their lives. While vetted on the state level, I only got two interviews in the schools. Both times I was hammered about standardized testing, which was only coming online when I taught a decade ago. I remain unemployed, but hope that, even with having my Master of Arts in Teaching, I might be able to qualify to be a substitute teacher (.. ...


Amen, sister.

Except for the part about your unemployment - it's tough right now. Class sizes going up everywhere, schools losing funding in most states. It will level out and get better, though.
 
2012-08-11 03:13:00 AM

Vaneshi: Speaking as someone from a country where schools generally have uniforms; I've no idea what problem you Americans think will be solved by putting a kid in, what amounts to, a miniature business suit.

It won't stop bullying, it won't stop the violent kids being violent, it won't stop them getting needle tracks in their arms or the school bike getting pregnant... again, nor will it stop said violent kids being violent towards the teachers either. It won't stop some random kid who was in the wrong place at the wrong time being shived in the woodwork class either.

What it will do though, is allow schools to be more selective about who they take in; if you can't afford the specific uniform needed which is sold only in a few specific stores and due to being a specific (and obviously not generic colour like say... brown) is expensive; this won't stop the violent kids appearing in your school though.

It's a problem with schools in deprived areas not that the little bastards aren't wearing suits to school.


In Illinois if a public school requires uniforms they must provide suitable attire for those families that cannot afford to buy the proper clothes.
 
2012-08-11 03:14:56 AM

Vaneshi: Lsherm:
That's a non-issue for public schools - they'd have to supply the uniforms. As it is, the only schools in the US who require uniforms tend to be private schools, and they generally perform better than the public schools.

To quote from a show around these parts: You may think that, I couldn't possibly comment.

/Went to a bog standard state school (i.e. public).
//Uniform cost about £300 in the 80's ($470usd according to xe.com).
///No, the schools won't be supplying them... trust me they won't. Really.


I am guessing that you do not live in the United States, right? Things are a bit different over here.
 
2012-08-11 03:17:34 AM

Lligeret: Lsherm: Vaneshi: What it will do though, is allow schools to be more selective about who they take in; if you can't afford the specific uniform needed which is sold only in a few specific stores and due to being a specific (and obviously not generic colour like say... brown) is expensive;

That's a non-issue for public schools - they'd have to supply the uniforms. As it is, the only schools in the US who require uniforms tend to be private schools, and they generally perform better than the public schools.

Actually they don't. As it turns out family is the deciding factor of performance in schools when all things are considered equal (aka when you compare schools with comparable funding/resources available). If you compare a public school in say Mississippi to a private school in Mississippi the private school there is a drastic difference in resources available that even if you have two equal students in each school the private school student will perform better. The same will show up in urban public schools compared to private schools. This is where many studies comparing private vs public schools fall apart.

However if you go to states that have not destroyed there public school systems you will find most of the public schools outside of urban settings are on par with private schools (again a direct result of funding). The difference at these locations comes down to families and their involvement in the kids education.


Private schools also do not have to actually deal with bad or problem students if they do not want to, public schools do.


It is really easy to claim something is better than another when you compare apples to oranges. It is another story when you compare apples to apples.


Agreed, I wasn't suggesting there weren't good public schools. In general, however, the worst schools are the public schools, for the very reason you already mentioned - they can't kick the shiatty students out. Or the special needs kids. Or kids who come from families who just don't give a shiat about education. Some public schools are just a waste trap for the educational system.

Vaneshi: To quote from a show around these parts: You may think that, I couldn't possibly comment.

/Went to a bog standard state school (i.e. public).
//Uniform cost about £300 in the 80's ($470usd according to xe.com).
///No, the schools won't be supplying them... trust me they won't. Really.


Not sure exactly how they do it in the UK, but US public schools aren't allowed to reject students. So if a public school adds a uniform requirement, and the student's family can't pay for it, then they either get an exemption or the school pays for it. As a result, public schools don't require uniforms. Charter schools (private, government funded, nonreligious) often require uniforms, but again, they provide assistance to families that can't afford them.

Religious private schools are extremely fond of uniforms in the US. They'll help parents pay for them if they can, but more often than not you're on your own. Uniforms are handed down to poor families from other families.

And what the hell is a "bog standard?" Sounds vaguely Scottish.
 
2012-08-11 03:18:11 AM

Ringo48: thatboyoverthere: Ringo48: Yet suggest the government GTFO of education or implement a voucher system, and the first people to rally against it are the teachers...

Becuase it would just make the system worse?
/You seriously want to privatized education?

Nonsense. Under a voucher system parents are allocated a certain amount of money for their child's education and they get to choose which school gets the money.

There's nothing stopping the parents from choosing the existing public school. If the public schools are really better than the private schools then the public schools will stay in business and the system will be no better or worse than it already is.

Of course the teacher's union doesn't want to compete with private schools, so we keep the shiatty system we have.


Do the private schools get to filter out the "hard cases"? Because that makes a HUGE f--king difference.

I've had Jewish and Native American friends who went to pre voucher Catholic schools b/c that was the best their parents could afford. The Catholic schools were decent but even pre vouchers they refused students like my cousin's mentally retarded half brother. Because they didn't "have the resources". Which is fair UNTIL they start getting federal funds to continue the tradition of "every kid gets a right to an education"
 
2012-08-11 03:19:24 AM
From The Farking Article: "Despite my Ivy League English degree, master's, and 25 years of professional reading and writing experience, I was unfit to teach reading and writing"

Just because you have a degree and 25 years of experience does not automatically mean that you can teach. Granted, chances are they were just giving you poor marks so that they could then fire you, but still, having a degree does not automatically mean that you can teach. Some people are simply crappy teachers, no matter how smart or experienced they may be.
 
2012-08-11 03:27:33 AM

James F. Campbell: Thecyanide: Absolutely agree. Hitting is never right. There is a good point there, When there are no concenquences for their actions people get bolder and bolder.

You have a learning disability, so I'm going to say this slowly and with smaller words: they studied children and how those children were punished. Some children were punished with physical violence, and others were not. The children who were punished with physical violence became more violent than other children, and when they grew up, they were more likely to be bad members of society.


I think the learning disability is yours.

Shall we try this again?

My point if you get away with something you might try to get away with something a bit bigger the next time. Rinse and repeat. Unless there is a deterrent of some kind. For adults there might be the criminal justice system. For kids, grounding, love and logic, chores, who knows what else.

Hitting another is not ok. Ever.
 
2012-08-11 03:28:12 AM

James F. Campbell: PsychoLaurie: The education system is fatally flawed in America. It is designed merely to teach students how to be good little worker bees. Be in the office by 8am, go home at 5pm and don't touch my red Swingline stapler.

Take a look around you on Fark. These feebs will mock you and call you stupid if you do anything but be a good worker bee. You're in the wrong place, honey.


I don't think you even know what this place is.
 
2012-08-11 03:39:10 AM

Ringo48: Yet suggest the government GTFO of education or implement a voucher system, and the first people to rally against it are the teachers...


Because "vouchers" are just code for "Jesus Camp."
 
2012-08-11 03:41:59 AM

thatboyoverthere: Ringo48: Yet suggest the government GTFO of education or implement a voucher system, and the first people to rally against it are the teachers...

Becuase it would just make the system worse?
/You seriously want to privatized education?


Yeah! Everyone knows private schools suck
 
2012-08-11 03:48:18 AM

StreetlightInTheGhetto: Ringo48: thatboyoverthere: Ringo48: Yet suggest the government GTFO of education or implement a voucher system, and the first people to rally against it are the teachers...

Becuase it would just make the system worse?
/You seriously want to privatized education?

Nonsense. Under a voucher system parents are allocated a certain amount of money for their child's education and they get to choose which school gets the money.

There's nothing stopping the parents from choosing the existing public school. If the public schools are really better than the private schools then the public schools will stay in business and the system will be no better or worse than it already is.

Of course the teacher's union doesn't want to compete with private schools, so we keep the shiatty system we have.

Do the private schools get to filter out the "hard cases"? Because that makes a HUGE f--king difference.

I've had Jewish and Native American friends who went to pre voucher Catholic schools b/c that was the best their parents could afford. The Catholic schools were decent but even pre vouchers they refused students like my cousin's mentally retarded half brother. Because they didn't "have the resources". Which is fair UNTIL they start getting federal funds to continue the tradition of "every kid gets a right to an education"


Catholic schools have never and can never accept federal funding. A religious school of any kind does not qualify.
 
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