If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(The Incidental Economist)   Myth: Pharmaceutical companies' R&D costs are skyrocketing. Reality: Pharmaceutical companies' revenues are skyrocketing six times faster than their R&D costs   (theincidentaleconomist.com) divider line 153
    More: Obvious, BMJ, Phase I, Dean Baker  
•       •       •

3660 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Aug 2012 at 7:21 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



153 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-08-10 07:45:52 PM
All the real research is done by the tax payer funded NIH anyway

Pharma spends more on marketing than it does R&D and has for a long time
 
2012-08-10 07:46:22 PM
correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a myth have to be believed by some non insignificant number of people? or at least someone, somewhere?
 
2012-08-10 07:47:42 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: God-is-a-Taco: I'm stronger than I used to be, I have more energy, and I'm ready for romance if the time comes.

Uh oh, Selective Middle-Aged Memory Loss. It's when you think you're smarter or in better shape at 40 than 20...


That is just the effect of having less acne.
 
2012-08-10 07:48:02 PM

SquiggelyGrounders: This is news?

Of course they do. You expect them to do that work for only a modest profit? Who the fark would bother making medicine without lavish compensation?


To be fair, some of it's justified in that a lot of the big companies have regulatory arrangements that allow them to charge more on the condition that they supply things like emergency vaccines en masse for basically free whenever the CDC tells them to. So it's not entirely them just being greedy. You tend to not go into medicine if you're a completedick.

AliceBToklasLives: fusillade762: Also don't mention that government research is responsible a lot of these drugs.

According to the NIH, taxpayer-funded scientists conducted 55 percent of the research projects that led to the discovery and development of the top five selling drugs in 1995

Taxpayers take the risk and private companies get the profits. How our glorious free market system works, right?


Well, most bio labs are something like 90 to 95% industry funded now (in 1995 it would have been more like 60% industry funded, so the private guys were still chipping in more than the taxpayers), so I guess you got your wish on that one.
 
2012-08-10 07:48:47 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Mugato: Marcus Aurelius: They spend several times more on marketing than on R&D, thanks to laws allowing them to advertise on TV and radio. They paid good money for those laws. And the return is spectacular.

I never really understood advertising for drugs.

*woman running in a wheat field*

"Ask you're doctor about Alderaanavulcanistron. Symptoms may include dry mouth and horrible twisting death."


Doesn't your doctor know about all this shiat? Why do you have to inform him of the girl you saw running in the field on TV?

They do it because it sells, especially with old people. Lots of them will do any damn thing the TV tells them to do.



Yeah, but old people don't get to PRESCRIBE the drugs. Doctors do.

And if your doctor is willing to prescribe you a drug because YOU saw a TV commercial with a happy couple walking on the beach with their dog...

Advertising RX meds to the public USED to be illegal.
 
2012-08-10 07:50:43 PM
I work for a company that makes pharmacy information systems among other things. The other day I got a chance to really get my hands into the system and learn it. The most shocking thing about it was the recommended drug prices (which was listed right next to the retail price). Really, it was unfarking believable. I think everyone knows theres an enormous markup but holy shiat if people knew just how badly they were getting raped on this stuff they would riot. Not sure how relevant this is to the article since this is about hospitals but I mean...damn.
 
2012-08-10 07:50:51 PM

AllUpInYa: darwinpolice: I'm posting this while eating a steak dinner that's on Pfizer's dime, so I'm really getting a kick out of... this steak and beer.

Why are you texting, you should be getting a hooker with that.


They're way stricter about expense reports now than they were in the mid-2000s. :(
 
2012-08-10 07:52:22 PM
The pharmaceutical industry is full of shiat. In the last 15 years the great majority of medical advances have NOT been from the USA, they are from dirty socialist countries like Germany (cure for AIDS) and Japan (medical equipment).
 
2012-08-10 07:52:39 PM
 
2012-08-10 07:53:42 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: God-is-a-Taco: I'm stronger than I used to be, I have more energy, and I'm ready for romance if the time comes.

Uh oh, Selective Middle-Aged Memory Loss. It's when you think you're smarter or in better shape at 40 than 20...


Maybe it's just the SMAML, but I actually think I'm smarter now at 48 than I was at 20, as we all are, barring degenerative mental illness or brain damage.
 
2012-08-10 07:54:25 PM
I expect that their revenue vs. R&D cost will go up even more since pretty much every large pharmaceutical company has been downsizing their R&D over the past few years.
 
2012-08-10 07:55:36 PM

Mambo Bananapatch: barring degenerative mental illness or brain damage.


Being over 30 *IS* a degenerative mental illness. You just THINK you're smarter. Fine. Go back to university. You wouldn't last a week.
 
2012-08-10 07:56:59 PM

Big Man On Campus: Also: The FDA is in their pocket.


^THIS^


FDA definition of Safe and Effective:

SAFE: Is the Rx company likely to lose money thanks to lawsuits arising from this drug?

EFFECTIVE:
Will the Rx company make shiatloads of money from this drug?
 
2012-08-10 07:58:54 PM

MugzyBrown: downstairs: This. I go to my doctor with symtoms, I trust him to figure the best drug for me.

I too prefer to be totally uneducated on a subject and let the doctor pick the medicine with the hottest pharma rep or biggest kick-backs for my problem like the good ole days


THIS

/Trusting doctors is pretty stupid for the most part, IMO
//The odds of them either having an ulterior motive for prescribing drugs or simply being a moron are high enough to be alarming
///I'm not one of those homeopathic nuts, either
 
2012-08-10 08:01:28 PM

pxlboy: MBooda: aaaand their legal expenses are skyrocketing six times faster than their revenues.

You wish


And even if that WAS true, if only there was a way for pharmaceutical companies to limit the suits they lose. Like I don't know, properly vetting your drugs and making sure that diabetes drug isn't going to kill your customers. Whacky thought, I know.
 
2012-08-10 08:03:55 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: Being over 30 *IS* a degenerative mental illness. You just THINK you're smarter.


I peaked at zygote.

/all down hill from there...
 
2012-08-10 08:04:50 PM
That's because people have been lead to believe they need pills to control their kids behavior and pills to deal with the difficulty of everyday life.
 
2012-08-10 08:04:55 PM

Grobbley: MugzyBrown: downstairs: This. I go to my doctor with symtoms, I trust him to figure the best drug for me.

I too prefer to be totally uneducated on a subject and let the doctor pick the medicine with the hottest pharma rep or biggest kick-backs for my problem like the good ole days

THIS

/Trusting doctors is pretty stupid for the most part, IMO
//The odds of them either having an ulterior motive for prescribing drugs or simply being a moron are high enough to be alarming
///I'm not one of those homeopathic nuts, either


Right, so the solution is to get educated with those commercials of people running on the beach and giving you a name of a drug based on a Star Trek alien name generator. THAT will convince your doctor to get what you need. A doctor who gives you drugs based on what you tell him to give is called a dealer.
 
2012-08-10 08:05:37 PM

MBooda: aaaand their legal expenses are skyrocketing six times faster than their revenues.



Pfizer has paid out over $600 million in settlements due to breast cancer caused by the menopause drug PremPro - so far.

They expect that figure to double with the cases that are currently outstanding, and more keep coming.

But Pfizer's not sweating it. The drug is still on the market, the patent jealously protected, and they're still prescribing it like crazy.

Obviously the profits are so farking high that they outweigh all such costs AND the reputation damage caused.


/PremPro's (and Premarin's) primary ingredient - estrogen - is derived from horse piss
 
2012-08-10 08:06:05 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: There's no profit in cures


That IS the bottom line - sadly!
 
2012-08-10 08:08:50 PM
 
2012-08-10 08:10:04 PM
Don't get sick.

/ No, really.
 
2012-08-10 08:11:33 PM
didn't read the article; didn't read the thread. the whole idea of doing so made me so upset that i needed to sublingual 2mg of clonazepam just to feel ok. then i popped an extra lamictal and clozapine just to make sure. anyway, what's the question? and where did my bed go? i want it, but it disappeared.
 
2012-08-10 08:12:53 PM
All of these ignorant comments are hysterical sad.
 
2012-08-10 08:15:46 PM

Mugato: Grobbley: MugzyBrown: downstairs: This. I go to my doctor with symtoms, I trust him to figure the best drug for me.

I too prefer to be totally uneducated on a subject and let the doctor pick the medicine with the hottest pharma rep or biggest kick-backs for my problem like the good ole days

THIS

/Trusting doctors is pretty stupid for the most part, IMO
//The odds of them either having an ulterior motive for prescribing drugs or simply being a moron are high enough to be alarming
///I'm not one of those homeopathic nuts, either

Right, so the solution is to get educated with those commercials of people running on the beach and giving you a name of a drug based on a Star Trek alien name generator. THAT will convince your doctor to get what you need. A doctor who gives you drugs based on what you tell him to give is called a dealer.


I'm not suggesting that people should educate themselves with commercials, I'm suggesting that people shouldn't trust their doctor to figure out the best drugs for them just because they have a license. If you think Big Pharma doesn't have a strong influence on how your doctor practices medicine, you are most likely wrong. I've known a couple of doctors and they were pretty straight with me about the fact that they always have pharma reps taking them out to dinner, bringing in breakfast, fruit trays, assorted gifts, and any number of other things that border on bribery to push their drugs. It's ultimately not much different than lobbyists in Washington.

In a nutshell, I'm saying that to say "I don't trust drug advertisements but I do trust my doctor" is about the same as "I don't trust corporations to do the right thing, but I do trust the government/my representatives to do the right thing"
 
2012-08-10 08:20:01 PM

Nick Nostril: Don't get sick.

/ No, really.



What? You have a problem with people makin' a profit? What are you, a Commie?

The Rx companies and medical industry NEED you to get sick, and stay sick.

The longer the sicker the better.

Are you tryin' to take their jobs???
 
2012-08-10 08:21:58 PM

MasterThief: Meanwhile, here's an actual drug researcher explaining why this study is full of shiat. (Which is, ironically, linked in TFA.)


^^^THIS. It's a much better article. TFA is the pharmaceutical version of birthers. Although I can't really blame people for being suspicious, because the industry is somewhat shrouded in mystery. There's essentially no way for a lay person to know this kind of information without years and years of schooling/research/work experience.
 
2012-08-10 08:23:57 PM
Pharmaceutical sales are the best indindicator of America's declining mental health and how much old people want to fornicate. Why else would sales rise?
 
2012-08-10 08:24:10 PM
[itsaconspiracy.jpg]
 
2012-08-10 08:26:10 PM

namatad: Perfect example is kidney dialysis vs transplant. Transplant is tons cheaper long term.


Are there a lot of people on dialysis who are just turning down offers for kidneys?
 
2012-08-10 08:27:11 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I wish those evil pharmaceutical corporations would all go out of business. Then we could treat diseases with real cures, like homeopathy and white gold powder.


Yes, because having reasonable regulations will certainly just cause them to instantly go bankrupt. You work for a pharma company don't you?
 
2012-08-10 08:27:48 PM

Grobbley: In a nutshell, I'm saying that to say "I don't trust drug advertisements but I do trust my doctor" is about the same as "I don't trust corporations to do the right thing, but I do trust the government/my representatives to do the right thing"


Alright but doctors do have the whole Hippocratic Oath thing and no, I'm not saying that it means that doctors are beyond reproach but doctors can get sued for malpractice very easily and they can lose their entire career very easily so yes, I will trust a doctor's advice over that of a commercial if for no other reason that a doctor has a lot to lose if he farks up.
 
2012-08-10 08:30:51 PM

Grobbley: In a nutshell, I'm saying that to say "I don't trust drug advertisements but I do trust my doctor" is about the same as "I don't trust corporations to do the right thing, but I do trust the government/my representatives to do the right thing"


No it's not.

It's more like "I don't trust the guy randomly cold-calling me about a hot stock tip, but I do trust my financial adviser." You may have hired a financial adviser who is trying to rip you off, but if you weren't smart enough to hire someone reputable then you're probably going to do just as badly doing it yourself.
 
2012-08-10 08:32:58 PM
Stop hating America. Making a fortune by butt raping the oblivious middle class is what America is all about. If you don't like it, go to some socialist country that does not appreciate ass plundering atlases.
 
2012-08-10 08:40:19 PM
Fact: Just because this is true, does not mean the pharmaceutical companies are in a nefarious conspiracy with the RAND Corporation and the Saucer people to keep you sick for profit. It also does not mean that VItamin D cures cancer, or that vaccines cause autism.

Just getting this out of the way.
 
2012-08-10 08:40:22 PM

hitlersbrain: Stop hating America. Making a fortune by butt raping the oblivious middle class is what America is all about. If you don't like it, go to some socialist country that does not appreciate ass plundering atlases.


Ahh. A sarcastic jew who names himself 'Hitler'.
 
2012-08-10 08:43:23 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: SquiggelyGrounders: This is news?

Of course they do. You expect them to do that work for only a modest profit? Who the fark would bother making medicine without lavish compensation?

Apparently most of the people in this thread would be. Why they're posting on Fark instead of using their own money to develop cures for diseases, I have no clue.


Probably due to inability to afford the student loan debt involved in learning how to do so.

/Plus, all the really cool science gadgets you need are way overpriced.
 
2012-08-10 08:44:57 PM
Amos Quito: /PremPro's (and Premarin's) primary ingredient - estrogen - is derived from horse piss

So? There are numerous drugs that are sourced from animals. Hell, google "Fecal Transplant ICU". if you really want to be grossed out.

What point are you trying to make here?

Amos Quito: Pfizer has paid out over $600 million in settlements due to breast cancer caused by the menopause drug PremPro - so far.

Except that Hormone Replacement Therapy is no longer recommended to be used except in unique, case by case circumstances, and the patients are educated that it causes an increased risk of breast cancer with estrogen-receptor tumors.
 
2012-08-10 08:45:28 PM

God-is-a-Taco: Marcus Aurelius:
They do it because it sells, especially with old people. Lots of them will do any damn thing the TV tells them to do.

You poor fool. I used to be like you, but now I'm on Ageless Male.
I'm stronger than I used to be, I have more energy, and I'm ready for romance if the time comes.


Targeted advertising is hilarious. The Military Channel has some of the best stuff. The demographic is clearly 50+ year old overweight men with shattered dreams of glory.


There's one for a weight-loss pill (can't remember the name), where you will be able to lose weight without changing your diet or exercising. There's a lady narrating it that says, "...only for people who are serious about losing weight." I can just imagine how many people get that hook set deep because it makes these pills sound like high-potency, serious business.

/fine print says they lost something like an average of 4 pounds over three months
 
2012-08-10 08:47:07 PM

Mike Chewbacca: pxlboy: MBooda: aaaand their legal expenses are skyrocketing six times faster than their revenues.

You wish

And even if that WAS true, if only there was a way for pharmaceutical companies to limit the suits they lose. Like I don't know, properly vetting your drugs and making sure that diabetes drug isn't going to kill your customers. Whacky thought, I know.


Right?
 
2012-08-10 08:47:32 PM
 
2012-08-10 08:48:52 PM

Mutt Farkinov: God-is-a-Taco: Marcus Aurelius:
They do it because it sells, especially with old people. Lots of them will do any damn thing the TV tells them to do.

You poor fool. I used to be like you, but now I'm on Ageless Male.
I'm stronger than I used to be, I have more energy, and I'm ready for romance if the time comes.


Targeted advertising is hilarious. The Military Channel has some of the best stuff. The demographic is clearly 50+ year old overweight men with shattered dreams of glory.

There's one for a weight-loss pill (can't remember the name), where you will be able to lose weight without changing your diet or exercising. There's a lady narrating it that says, "...only for people who are serious about losing weight." I can just imagine how many people get that hook set deep because it makes these pills sound like high-potency, serious business.

/fine print says they lost something like an average of 4 pounds over three months


Diet pill commercials amaze me. I suppose there are people desperate (or more likely dumb) enough to believe that they can continue to stuff their faces while sitting on the couch and still lose weight.

Not sure if sad, angry, or both.
 
2012-08-10 08:49:20 PM

Tyranicle: hitlersbrain: Stop hating America. Making a fortune by butt raping the oblivious middle class is what America is all about. If you don't like it, go to some socialist country that does not appreciate ass plundering atlases.

Ahh. A sarcastic jew who names himself 'Hitler'.


One day, I'ma be so rich, that I can buy my moms a house
Have a livin' room with a big TV and I'ma still sleep on the couch
I'ma have 'em like
Oy vey, holy cow, oh my god, wow
Oy vey, holy cow, oh my god, wow
It seems I'm gettin' fresher every time they turn around like
Oy vey, holy cow, oh my god, wow
 
2012-08-10 08:50:05 PM

Mutt Farkinov: God-is-a-Taco: Marcus Aurelius:
They do it because it sells, especially with old people. Lots of them will do any damn thing the TV tells them to do.

You poor fool. I used to be like you, but now I'm on Ageless Male.
I'm stronger than I used to be, I have more energy, and I'm ready for romance if the time comes.


Targeted advertising is hilarious. The Military Channel has some of the best stuff. The demographic is clearly 50+ year old overweight men with shattered dreams of glory.

There's one for a weight-loss pill (can't remember the name), where you will be able to lose weight without changing your diet or exercising. There's a lady narrating it that says, "...only for people who are serious about losing weight." I can just imagine how many people get that hook set deep because it makes these pills sound like high-potency, serious business.

/fine print says they lost something like an average of 4 pounds over three months


If they want to spend money on drugs to lose weight, there's always cocaine or meth.

/no, i do not advocate their use
 
2012-08-10 08:51:23 PM
I recently left academia and took a position as research scientist at a mid-sized biotech/pharma.

Personally, I love the work and the company so far. But I have to say it is an interesting feeling being in apparently one of the most hated industries on Fark.
 
2012-08-10 08:51:28 PM

NowhereMon: Not to mention that you can write off 100% of your R&D expenses.


What business expense can NOT be written off 100% (ok, other than food expense for "marketing").
 
2012-08-10 08:53:43 PM

Doc Daneeka: I recently left academia and took a position as research scientist at a mid-sized biotech/pharma.

Personally, I love the work and the company so far. But I have to say it is an interesting feeling being in apparently one of the most hated industries on Fark.


What sort of research are you doing?
 
2012-08-10 08:54:34 PM
Doc Daneeka: Personally, I love the work and the company so far. But I have to say it is an interesting feeling being in apparently one of the most hated industries on Fark.

You're a cop?
 
2012-08-10 08:54:34 PM

BMFPitt: Grobbley: In a nutshell, I'm saying that to say "I don't trust drug advertisements but I do trust my doctor" is about the same as "I don't trust corporations to do the right thing, but I do trust the government/my representatives to do the right thing"

No it's not.

It's more like "I don't trust the guy randomly cold-calling me about a hot stock tip, but I do trust my financial adviser." You may have hired a financial adviser who is trying to rip you off, but if you weren't smart enough to hire someone reputable then you're probably going to do just as badly doing it yourself.



The drug company only wants to make a profit and your doctor is only investing 15 minutes in your well-being.

It's YOUR health. Why should you trust anyone? When you're prescribed a drug, ASK YOUR DOCTOR QUESTIONS about the benefits, the side effects, interactions, contradictions, withdrawals, etc. And then ask your pharmacist - who probably knows more about the drug than your MD.

Then do you OWN research on the drug using reputable literature and websites (pubmed, webmd, etc.) Read peer reviewed studies.

Then find out what actual users of the product are saying. Ask A Patient is a great website. Type in the name of the drug you've been prescribed and read the experiences of others.

Finally, pay attention to your body. Each drug works differently for each individual. If it's not working well for you, contact your doctor. There are probably a dozen alternatives.

Bottom line: You're the one who has to live with the consequences.

Not your doctor, not the drug company, not the insurance company, YOU.
 
2012-08-10 08:54:53 PM

laid back w/bud light: Try losing your job and insurance when you're on Stelara to clear your psoriasis. I was totally clear of the horrible skin disease on that drug. Months later I'm covered in plaque. Basically your skin grows too fast and dies off leaving pieces of dead skin the size of corn flakes that itch to no end. I called the pharma company to see If I could purchase it and have my dermatologist give me the shot (required 4 times a year). The price for one injection is $6,900 or close to $28,000 dollars per year. Wearing shorts is a luxury to me.


Sorry man.
 
Displayed 50 of 153 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »





Report