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(The Incidental Economist)   Myth: Pharmaceutical companies' R&D costs are skyrocketing. Reality: Pharmaceutical companies' revenues are skyrocketing six times faster than their R&D costs   (theincidentaleconomist.com) divider line 153
    More: Obvious, BMJ, Phase I, Dean Baker  
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3666 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Aug 2012 at 7:21 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-10 03:29:21 PM  
Not to mention that you can write off 100% of your R&D expenses.
 
2012-08-10 03:32:03 PM  
Why do you think the medical industry is more interested in treating symptoms rather than fighting the root cause of disease?
 
2012-08-10 03:34:01 PM  
There's no profit in cures
 
2012-08-10 03:35:26 PM  
They spend several times more on marketing than on R&D, thanks to laws allowing them to advertise on TV and radio. They paid good money for those laws. And the return is spectacular.
 
2012-08-10 03:42:32 PM  
Let the circle jerk.... begin.
 
2012-08-10 03:46:19 PM  
Hold on I thought they could no longer make the profits due to the Obamacare?
 
2012-08-10 03:48:09 PM  

meow said the dog: Hold on I thought they could no longer make the profits due to the Obamacare?


Considering that most of the R&D is done in places like Europe, Southeast Asia and Israel. I'm not surprised.
 
2012-08-10 03:49:43 PM  

Mrtraveler01: meow said the dog: Hold on I thought they could no longer make the profits due to the Obamacare?

Considering that most of the R&D is done in places like Europe, Southeast Asia and Israel. I'm not surprised.



THIS. Pfizer, for one, has closed the big research centers in the US that discovered its most profitable drugs. Mainly because the morons in charge of the company run it the same way they would McDonald's.
 
2012-08-10 03:59:59 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Let the circle jerk.... begin.


It is very hard to find an image of the tree elf from "Role Models," so I will just post Kuzzik.

blogs.orlandosentinel.com
 
2012-08-10 04:35:17 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: They spend several times more on marketing than on R&D, thanks to laws allowing them to advertise on TV and radio. They paid good money for those laws. And the return is spectacular.


I never really understood advertising for drugs.

*woman running in a wheat field*

"Ask you're doctor about Alderaanavulcanistron. Symptoms may include dry mouth and horrible twisting death."

Doesn't your doctor know about all this shiat? Why do you have to inform him of the girl you saw running in the field on TV?
 
2012-08-10 04:38:21 PM  

Mugato: I never really understood advertising for drugs.

*woman running in a wheat field*

"Ask you're doctor about Alderaanavulcanistron. Symptoms may include dry mouth and horrible twisting death."

Doesn't your doctor know about all this shiat? Why do you have to inform him of the girl you saw running in the field on TV?


This. I go to my doctor with symtoms, I trust him to figure the best drug for me.
 
2012-08-10 04:46:50 PM  
Yet health care reform is a bad idea.
 
2012-08-10 04:49:03 PM  

jchic: Why do you think the medical industry is more interested in treating symptoms rather than fighting the root cause of disease?


This is only partially true.
Take hypertension as an example. HT is caused by a myriad of diseases, genetic conditions and just plain you are fat and out of shape. Drugs which treat the HT are a god send and keep 100s of millions of people alive everyday. If you think for a second that a drug company wouldnt want to create a "perfect" diet pill then you are insane.

A bigger problem is the medical diagnosing community/insurance companies to start with.
I have HT, but my doctor (like almost all the rest) treated the symptoms. A couple tests were done to rule out the major causes, but in the end, she treated the symptoms, rather than the cause. This happens over and over for the majority of americans. The drug companies are feeding the doctors and the insurance companies/doctors are failing the patients.

In the end, it would have saved the insurance companies tons of dollars doing proper diagnosis, rather than paying for never ending drugs prescriptions.

Perfect example is kidney dialysis vs transplant. Transplant is tons cheaper long term.
And for every condition which is being treated by drugs, there is an opportunity for someone to come up with a cure. Come up with a better vaccine against the common cold?? Even if I needed a shot ever year??? Come up with a cure for aids/hiv? Hello Nobel Prize and fame. and you would be selling that drug like crazy in the rich countries.

Alas, you are completely correct about part of the problem.
Take a quick look at the cure for ulcers. The cure was KNOWN for many years before it came to america. Strangely enough, the cure appeared in america about the same time as the patent expiration for tagamet and zantac, pepcid, prilosec ....

Link fun read from UOFC press
 
2012-08-10 05:22:13 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Let the circle jerk.... begin.


There is only ONE trilogy, ya morons.
 
2012-08-10 05:55:22 PM  

Mugato: Marcus Aurelius: They spend several times more on marketing than on R&D, thanks to laws allowing them to advertise on TV and radio. They paid good money for those laws. And the return is spectacular.

I never really understood advertising for drugs.

*woman running in a wheat field*

"Ask you're doctor about Alderaanavulcanistron. Symptoms may include dry mouth and horrible twisting death."

Doesn't your doctor know about all this shiat? Why do you have to inform him of the girl you saw running in the field on TV?


They do it because it sells, especially with old people. Lots of them will do any damn thing the TV tells them to do.
 
2012-08-10 06:03:39 PM  

Mugato: Marcus Aurelius: They spend several times more on marketing than on R&D, thanks to laws allowing them to advertise on TV and radio. They paid good money for those laws. And the return is spectacular.

I never really understood advertising for drugs.

*woman running in a wheat field*

"Ask you're doctor about Alderaanavulcanistron. Symptoms may include dry mouth and horrible twisting death."

Doesn't your doctor know about all this shiat? Why do you have to inform him of the girl you saw running in the field on TV?


you're = YOUR. Excuse me.

Marcus Aurelius: They do it because it sells, especially with old people. Lots of them will do any damn thing the TV tells them to do.


Well a lot of the ads are for boner and contraceptive pills so it's not just old people who are the marks.
 
2012-08-10 06:28:41 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: I never really understood advertising for drugs.

*woman running in a wheat field*

"Ask you're doctor about Alderaanavulcanistron. Symptoms may include dry mouth and horrible twisting death."


Actually, the weird arse commercials that make no sense don't have to list side-effects. They also can't say what the drug does - hence the nonsensical nature of the ads.

/unless that law's changed in the past few years.
 
2012-08-10 06:35:06 PM  
Prescott Pharmaceuticals has already shown you don't need R&D

images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-08-10 07:24:01 PM  

downstairs: This. I go to my doctor with symtoms, I trust him to figure the best drug for me.


I too prefer to be totally uneducated on a subject and let the doctor pick the medicine with the hottest pharma rep or biggest kick-backs for my problem like the good ole days
 
2012-08-10 07:25:09 PM  
I wish those evil pharmaceutical corporations would all go out of business. Then we could treat diseases with real cures, like homeopathy and white gold powder.
 
2012-08-10 07:27:25 PM  
Maybe we shouldn't allow a drug to remain patented for several years.... or any years...
 
2012-08-10 07:27:55 PM  

Mugato: Well a lot of the ads are for boner and contraceptive pills so it's not just old people who are the marks


Well, it mostly seems the boner pills are marketed to the over 50 crowd, based on the actors that i have seen.
Now, if those companies gave a crap about actual health, if they spent a half of their budgets on marketing and dedicated that to r & D, we might actually see a way to beat many of the diseases that really need cures.Of course, it would still cost 5 times as much for the cure, in the US- I mean, that bentley or 8th house aint buying themselves...
 
2012-08-10 07:29:35 PM  

jchic: Why do you think the medical industry is more interested in treating symptoms rather than fighting the root cause of disease?


Why indeed.
 
2012-08-10 07:30:05 PM  
Did they get their patents extended to 70 years, or are they still changing the filler ingredient and re applying for patents every 7?
 
2012-08-10 07:30:45 PM  
No shiat.

If I understood my psych professor correctly, once they figured out what gets people to buy in to a particular scenario, they're far more likely to do what sells over what is actually working.

Case in point, that Roche BC drug that got its approval yanked - despite what I read about the cost, questionable success or effectiveness, people were going BONKERS when they stopped selling it.

I'm all for treating BC as effectively as possible, but the stuff didn't apparently work for most of the people who took it, and you could buy a good house for the cost over time. Psychology + advertising is a bad bad place to get into unless you have no conscience. At which point, line them up against the wall, please.

/F this shiat O'Clock, sorry.
//Also miss my mom.
 
2012-08-10 07:31:03 PM  

MugzyBrown: Maybe we shouldn't allow a drug to remain patented for several years.... or any years...


So... How would that work? A company would invest millions into developing a new drug and then just hand it over to the competition? They'd go out of business with a model like that.
 
2012-08-10 07:31:36 PM  
I read it on some dude's blog, it must be true.
 
2012-08-10 07:31:47 PM  
aaaand their legal expenses are skyrocketing six times faster than their revenues.
 
2012-08-10 07:32:46 PM  

MBooda: aaaand their legal expenses are skyrocketing six times faster than their revenues.


You wish
 
2012-08-10 07:33:19 PM  

Marcus Aurelius:
They do it because it sells, especially with old people. Lots of them will do any damn thing the TV tells them to do.


You poor fool. I used to be like you, but now I'm on Ageless Male.
I'm stronger than I used to be, I have more energy, and I'm ready for romance if the time comes.


Targeted advertising is hilarious. The Military Channel has some of the best stuff. The demographic is clearly 50+ year old overweight men with shattered dreams of glory.
 
2012-08-10 07:34:03 PM  

NowhereMon: Not to mention that you can write off 100% of your R&D expenses.


Nearly 100%.

I once got scolded for having overtime while doing R&D because they were close to maxing out their R&D tax write off, but I'm not in the pharmaceutical industry.

Salary, so I didn't get any extra $$$ for the OT, but it had to be done. 10 12hour+ days will do that.
 
2012-08-10 07:34:21 PM  
I'm posting this while eating a steak dinner that's on Pfizer's dime, so I'm really getting a kick out of... this steak and beer.
 
2012-08-10 07:34:23 PM  
Also: The FDA is in their pocket.
 
2012-08-10 07:34:44 PM  
They definitely have enough money for grandpas boner pill adds!
 
2012-08-10 07:35:09 PM  
Try losing your job and insurance when you're on Stelara to clear your psoriasis. I was totally clear of the horrible skin disease on that drug. Months later I'm covered in plaque. Basically your skin grows too fast and dies off leaving pieces of dead skin the size of corn flakes that itch to no end. I called the pharma company to see If I could purchase it and have my dermatologist give me the shot (required 4 times a year). The price for one injection is $6,900 or close to $28,000 dollars per year. Wearing shorts is a luxury to me.
 
2012-08-10 07:37:06 PM  

MugzyBrown: downstairs: This. I go to my doctor with symtoms, I trust him to figure the best drug for me.

I too prefer to be totally uneducated on a subject and let the doctor pick the medicine with the hottest pharma rep or biggest kick-backs for my problem like the good ole days


That's why the commercials are so great! Instead of the patient being unsure about the New Drug the physician is recommending, they're on board from the get-go; after all, they saw it on TV! Everybody* wins!

*"Everybody" includes, and is limited to shareholders of New Drug, INC.
 
2012-08-10 07:37:14 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: MugzyBrown: Maybe we shouldn't allow a drug to remain patented for several years.... or any years...

So... How would that work? A company would invest millions into developing a new drug and then just hand it over to the competition? They'd go out of business with a model like that.


They'd license it for a reasonable fee. Or the government would pay for research, much as it does now in universities.
 
2012-08-10 07:37:21 PM  

Heraclitus: They definitely have enough money for grandpas boner pill adds!


The first boner pills were an accidental side effect while working on something to help people with pulmonary hypertension (and mountain climbers). It just turned out that boners make more money than keeping people with PAH (like me) alive a little longer.
 
2012-08-10 07:37:43 PM  
Pharma companies make money. BFD. This means my in-laws will have an income and can eat.
 
2012-08-10 07:38:11 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: They spend several times more on marketing than on R&D, thanks to laws allowing them to advertise on TV and radio. They paid good money for those laws. And the return is spectacular.


Several? NINETEEN TIMES as much according to TFA.


Mugato: Marcus Aurelius: They spend several times more on marketing than on R&D, thanks to laws allowing them to advertise on TV and radio. They paid good money for those laws. And the return is spectacular.

I never really understood advertising for drugs.

*woman running in a wheat field*

"Ask you're doctor about Alderaanavulcanistron. Symptoms may include dry mouth and horrible twisting death."

Doesn't your doctor know about all this shiat? Why do you have to inform him of the girl you saw running in the field on TV?


The one I especially love is the one for Nexium that says "You wouldn't want your doctor doing your job, so why should you do his?" and then directs people to ask their doctors for Nexium.


NowhereMon: Not to mention that you can write off 100% of your R&D expenses.


Also don't mention that government research is responsible a lot of these drugs.

According to the NIH, taxpayer-funded scientists conducted 55 percent of the research projects that led to the discovery and development of the top five selling drugs in 1995
 
2012-08-10 07:38:26 PM  

NowhereMon: Not to mention that you can write off 100% of your R&D expenses.


Um, write-off doesn't mean it's free, and that's conditional.

But yeah, speaking as someone on the science end of things, generally speaking the techniques for standard drug delivery and rapid chemical modification have been getting easier (i.e. cheaper) not harder. The idea that the same amount of research to obtain a drug as you'd put in ten years ago is somehow more expensive than it was ten years ago (inflation aside) is kind of an extraordinary claim that I'd want some solid citations for before I believed it to begin with.

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: MugzyBrown: Maybe we shouldn't allow a drug to remain patented for several years.... or any years...

So... How would that work? A company would invest millions into developing a new drug and then just hand it over to the competition? They'd go out of business with a model like that.


Before we had patents, we had trade secrets (technically there are still trade secrets, they're just protected by contract law rather than law law). You would carefully not tell anyone what was in your product, throw random harmless functionalities onto your chemicals to confuse spectrometers, engage in a lot of low-level industrial espionage, etc.

Basically drugs used to be handled the way the Coke/Pepsi conflict was handled (albeit we _had_ patents, the protection at the time was just extremely minimal and enforcement was almost entirely beyond the capacity of the feds). I kinda prefer the current system where people can take the information and build on it, even if they're not allowed to replicate it exactly. It's a good compromise that keeps all the wheels turning.
 
2012-08-10 07:38:42 PM  

darwinpolice: I'm posting this while eating a steak dinner that's on Pfizer's dime, so I'm really getting a kick out of... this steak and beer.


Why are you texting, you should be getting a hooker with that.
 
2012-08-10 07:39:21 PM  
This is news?

Of course they do. You expect them to do that work for only a modest profit? Who the fark would bother making medicine without lavish compensation?
 
2012-08-10 07:40:41 PM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: MugzyBrown: Maybe we shouldn't allow a drug to remain patented for several years.... or any years...

So... How would that work? A company would invest millions into developing a new drug and then just hand it over to the competition? They'd go out of business with a model like that.

They'd license it for a reasonable fee. Or the government would pay for research, much as it does now in universities.


You don't work in the private sector, do you?
 
2012-08-10 07:40:42 PM  

fusillade762: Also don't mention that government research is responsible a lot of these drugs.

According to the NIH, taxpayer-funded scientists conducted 55 percent of the research projects that led to the discovery and development of the top five selling drugs in 1995


Taxpayers take the risk and private companies get the profits. How our glorious free market system works, right?
 
2012-08-10 07:43:03 PM  
And how fast are costs going up?
 
2012-08-10 07:43:04 PM  

SquiggelyGrounders: This is news?

Of course they do. You expect them to do that work for only a modest profit? Who the fark would bother making medicine without lavish compensation?


Apparently most of the people in this thread would be. Why they're posting on Fark instead of using their own money to develop cures for diseases, I have no clue.
 
2012-08-10 07:43:25 PM  

God-is-a-Taco: I'm stronger than I used to be, I have more energy, and I'm ready for romance if the time comes.


Uh oh, Selective Middle-Aged Memory Loss. It's when you think you're smarter or in better shape at 40 than 20...
 
2012-08-10 07:44:12 PM  
My problem is that I'm bald, overweight, have a tiny penis, and I have more money than sense. WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF ME!?!?!
 
2012-08-10 07:44:31 PM  
Having not read the thread or TFA,

Next up on ABC Monday Night Be-headings, - Bankers, Lawyers, Pharmaceutical CEOs. Ending with Career Politicians!

Sponsored by "Antoinette Guillotines", the finest in falling Blades!
 
2012-08-10 07:45:52 PM  
All the real research is done by the tax payer funded NIH anyway

Pharma spends more on marketing than it does R&D and has for a long time
 
2012-08-10 07:46:22 PM  
correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a myth have to be believed by some non insignificant number of people? or at least someone, somewhere?
 
2012-08-10 07:47:42 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: God-is-a-Taco: I'm stronger than I used to be, I have more energy, and I'm ready for romance if the time comes.

Uh oh, Selective Middle-Aged Memory Loss. It's when you think you're smarter or in better shape at 40 than 20...


That is just the effect of having less acne.
 
2012-08-10 07:48:02 PM  

SquiggelyGrounders: This is news?

Of course they do. You expect them to do that work for only a modest profit? Who the fark would bother making medicine without lavish compensation?


To be fair, some of it's justified in that a lot of the big companies have regulatory arrangements that allow them to charge more on the condition that they supply things like emergency vaccines en masse for basically free whenever the CDC tells them to. So it's not entirely them just being greedy. You tend to not go into medicine if you're a completedick.

AliceBToklasLives: fusillade762: Also don't mention that government research is responsible a lot of these drugs.

According to the NIH, taxpayer-funded scientists conducted 55 percent of the research projects that led to the discovery and development of the top five selling drugs in 1995

Taxpayers take the risk and private companies get the profits. How our glorious free market system works, right?


Well, most bio labs are something like 90 to 95% industry funded now (in 1995 it would have been more like 60% industry funded, so the private guys were still chipping in more than the taxpayers), so I guess you got your wish on that one.
 
2012-08-10 07:48:47 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Mugato: Marcus Aurelius: They spend several times more on marketing than on R&D, thanks to laws allowing them to advertise on TV and radio. They paid good money for those laws. And the return is spectacular.

I never really understood advertising for drugs.

*woman running in a wheat field*

"Ask you're doctor about Alderaanavulcanistron. Symptoms may include dry mouth and horrible twisting death."


Doesn't your doctor know about all this shiat? Why do you have to inform him of the girl you saw running in the field on TV?

They do it because it sells, especially with old people. Lots of them will do any damn thing the TV tells them to do.



Yeah, but old people don't get to PRESCRIBE the drugs. Doctors do.

And if your doctor is willing to prescribe you a drug because YOU saw a TV commercial with a happy couple walking on the beach with their dog...

Advertising RX meds to the public USED to be illegal.
 
2012-08-10 07:50:43 PM  
I work for a company that makes pharmacy information systems among other things. The other day I got a chance to really get my hands into the system and learn it. The most shocking thing about it was the recommended drug prices (which was listed right next to the retail price). Really, it was unfarking believable. I think everyone knows theres an enormous markup but holy shiat if people knew just how badly they were getting raped on this stuff they would riot. Not sure how relevant this is to the article since this is about hospitals but I mean...damn.
 
2012-08-10 07:50:51 PM  

AllUpInYa: darwinpolice: I'm posting this while eating a steak dinner that's on Pfizer's dime, so I'm really getting a kick out of... this steak and beer.

Why are you texting, you should be getting a hooker with that.


They're way stricter about expense reports now than they were in the mid-2000s. :(
 
2012-08-10 07:52:22 PM  
The pharmaceutical industry is full of shiat. In the last 15 years the great majority of medical advances have NOT been from the USA, they are from dirty socialist countries like Germany (cure for AIDS) and Japan (medical equipment).
 
2012-08-10 07:52:39 PM  
 
2012-08-10 07:53:42 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: God-is-a-Taco: I'm stronger than I used to be, I have more energy, and I'm ready for romance if the time comes.

Uh oh, Selective Middle-Aged Memory Loss. It's when you think you're smarter or in better shape at 40 than 20...


Maybe it's just the SMAML, but I actually think I'm smarter now at 48 than I was at 20, as we all are, barring degenerative mental illness or brain damage.
 
2012-08-10 07:54:25 PM  
I expect that their revenue vs. R&D cost will go up even more since pretty much every large pharmaceutical company has been downsizing their R&D over the past few years.
 
2012-08-10 07:55:36 PM  

Mambo Bananapatch: barring degenerative mental illness or brain damage.


Being over 30 *IS* a degenerative mental illness. You just THINK you're smarter. Fine. Go back to university. You wouldn't last a week.
 
2012-08-10 07:56:59 PM  

Big Man On Campus: Also: The FDA is in their pocket.


^THIS^


FDA definition of Safe and Effective:

SAFE: Is the Rx company likely to lose money thanks to lawsuits arising from this drug?

EFFECTIVE:
Will the Rx company make shiatloads of money from this drug?
 
2012-08-10 07:58:54 PM  

MugzyBrown: downstairs: This. I go to my doctor with symtoms, I trust him to figure the best drug for me.

I too prefer to be totally uneducated on a subject and let the doctor pick the medicine with the hottest pharma rep or biggest kick-backs for my problem like the good ole days


THIS

/Trusting doctors is pretty stupid for the most part, IMO
//The odds of them either having an ulterior motive for prescribing drugs or simply being a moron are high enough to be alarming
///I'm not one of those homeopathic nuts, either
 
2012-08-10 08:01:28 PM  

pxlboy: MBooda: aaaand their legal expenses are skyrocketing six times faster than their revenues.

You wish


And even if that WAS true, if only there was a way for pharmaceutical companies to limit the suits they lose. Like I don't know, properly vetting your drugs and making sure that diabetes drug isn't going to kill your customers. Whacky thought, I know.
 
2012-08-10 08:03:55 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Being over 30 *IS* a degenerative mental illness. You just THINK you're smarter.


I peaked at zygote.

/all down hill from there...
 
2012-08-10 08:04:50 PM  
That's because people have been lead to believe they need pills to control their kids behavior and pills to deal with the difficulty of everyday life.
 
2012-08-10 08:04:55 PM  

Grobbley: MugzyBrown: downstairs: This. I go to my doctor with symtoms, I trust him to figure the best drug for me.

I too prefer to be totally uneducated on a subject and let the doctor pick the medicine with the hottest pharma rep or biggest kick-backs for my problem like the good ole days

THIS

/Trusting doctors is pretty stupid for the most part, IMO
//The odds of them either having an ulterior motive for prescribing drugs or simply being a moron are high enough to be alarming
///I'm not one of those homeopathic nuts, either


Right, so the solution is to get educated with those commercials of people running on the beach and giving you a name of a drug based on a Star Trek alien name generator. THAT will convince your doctor to get what you need. A doctor who gives you drugs based on what you tell him to give is called a dealer.
 
2012-08-10 08:05:37 PM  

MBooda: aaaand their legal expenses are skyrocketing six times faster than their revenues.



Pfizer has paid out over $600 million in settlements due to breast cancer caused by the menopause drug PremPro - so far.

They expect that figure to double with the cases that are currently outstanding, and more keep coming.

But Pfizer's not sweating it. The drug is still on the market, the patent jealously protected, and they're still prescribing it like crazy.

Obviously the profits are so farking high that they outweigh all such costs AND the reputation damage caused.


/PremPro's (and Premarin's) primary ingredient - estrogen - is derived from horse piss
 
2012-08-10 08:06:05 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: There's no profit in cures


That IS the bottom line - sadly!
 
2012-08-10 08:08:50 PM  
 
2012-08-10 08:10:04 PM  
Don't get sick.

/ No, really.
 
2012-08-10 08:11:33 PM  
didn't read the article; didn't read the thread. the whole idea of doing so made me so upset that i needed to sublingual 2mg of clonazepam just to feel ok. then i popped an extra lamictal and clozapine just to make sure. anyway, what's the question? and where did my bed go? i want it, but it disappeared.
 
2012-08-10 08:12:53 PM  
All of these ignorant comments are hysterical sad.
 
2012-08-10 08:15:46 PM  

Mugato: Grobbley: MugzyBrown: downstairs: This. I go to my doctor with symtoms, I trust him to figure the best drug for me.

I too prefer to be totally uneducated on a subject and let the doctor pick the medicine with the hottest pharma rep or biggest kick-backs for my problem like the good ole days

THIS

/Trusting doctors is pretty stupid for the most part, IMO
//The odds of them either having an ulterior motive for prescribing drugs or simply being a moron are high enough to be alarming
///I'm not one of those homeopathic nuts, either

Right, so the solution is to get educated with those commercials of people running on the beach and giving you a name of a drug based on a Star Trek alien name generator. THAT will convince your doctor to get what you need. A doctor who gives you drugs based on what you tell him to give is called a dealer.


I'm not suggesting that people should educate themselves with commercials, I'm suggesting that people shouldn't trust their doctor to figure out the best drugs for them just because they have a license. If you think Big Pharma doesn't have a strong influence on how your doctor practices medicine, you are most likely wrong. I've known a couple of doctors and they were pretty straight with me about the fact that they always have pharma reps taking them out to dinner, bringing in breakfast, fruit trays, assorted gifts, and any number of other things that border on bribery to push their drugs. It's ultimately not much different than lobbyists in Washington.

In a nutshell, I'm saying that to say "I don't trust drug advertisements but I do trust my doctor" is about the same as "I don't trust corporations to do the right thing, but I do trust the government/my representatives to do the right thing"
 
2012-08-10 08:20:01 PM  

Nick Nostril: Don't get sick.

/ No, really.



What? You have a problem with people makin' a profit? What are you, a Commie?

The Rx companies and medical industry NEED you to get sick, and stay sick.

The longer the sicker the better.

Are you tryin' to take their jobs???
 
2012-08-10 08:21:58 PM  

MasterThief: Meanwhile, here's an actual drug researcher explaining why this study is full of shiat. (Which is, ironically, linked in TFA.)


^^^THIS. It's a much better article. TFA is the pharmaceutical version of birthers. Although I can't really blame people for being suspicious, because the industry is somewhat shrouded in mystery. There's essentially no way for a lay person to know this kind of information without years and years of schooling/research/work experience.
 
2012-08-10 08:23:57 PM  
Pharmaceutical sales are the best indindicator of America's declining mental health and how much old people want to fornicate. Why else would sales rise?
 
2012-08-10 08:24:10 PM  
[itsaconspiracy.jpg]
 
2012-08-10 08:26:10 PM  

namatad: Perfect example is kidney dialysis vs transplant. Transplant is tons cheaper long term.


Are there a lot of people on dialysis who are just turning down offers for kidneys?
 
2012-08-10 08:27:11 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I wish those evil pharmaceutical corporations would all go out of business. Then we could treat diseases with real cures, like homeopathy and white gold powder.


Yes, because having reasonable regulations will certainly just cause them to instantly go bankrupt. You work for a pharma company don't you?
 
2012-08-10 08:27:48 PM  

Grobbley: In a nutshell, I'm saying that to say "I don't trust drug advertisements but I do trust my doctor" is about the same as "I don't trust corporations to do the right thing, but I do trust the government/my representatives to do the right thing"


Alright but doctors do have the whole Hippocratic Oath thing and no, I'm not saying that it means that doctors are beyond reproach but doctors can get sued for malpractice very easily and they can lose their entire career very easily so yes, I will trust a doctor's advice over that of a commercial if for no other reason that a doctor has a lot to lose if he farks up.
 
2012-08-10 08:30:51 PM  

Grobbley: In a nutshell, I'm saying that to say "I don't trust drug advertisements but I do trust my doctor" is about the same as "I don't trust corporations to do the right thing, but I do trust the government/my representatives to do the right thing"


No it's not.

It's more like "I don't trust the guy randomly cold-calling me about a hot stock tip, but I do trust my financial adviser." You may have hired a financial adviser who is trying to rip you off, but if you weren't smart enough to hire someone reputable then you're probably going to do just as badly doing it yourself.
 
2012-08-10 08:32:58 PM  
Stop hating America. Making a fortune by butt raping the oblivious middle class is what America is all about. If you don't like it, go to some socialist country that does not appreciate ass plundering atlases.
 
2012-08-10 08:40:19 PM  
Fact: Just because this is true, does not mean the pharmaceutical companies are in a nefarious conspiracy with the RAND Corporation and the Saucer people to keep you sick for profit. It also does not mean that VItamin D cures cancer, or that vaccines cause autism.

Just getting this out of the way.
 
2012-08-10 08:40:22 PM  

hitlersbrain: Stop hating America. Making a fortune by butt raping the oblivious middle class is what America is all about. If you don't like it, go to some socialist country that does not appreciate ass plundering atlases.


Ahh. A sarcastic jew who names himself 'Hitler'.
 
2012-08-10 08:43:23 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: SquiggelyGrounders: This is news?

Of course they do. You expect them to do that work for only a modest profit? Who the fark would bother making medicine without lavish compensation?

Apparently most of the people in this thread would be. Why they're posting on Fark instead of using their own money to develop cures for diseases, I have no clue.


Probably due to inability to afford the student loan debt involved in learning how to do so.

/Plus, all the really cool science gadgets you need are way overpriced.
 
2012-08-10 08:44:57 PM  
Amos Quito: /PremPro's (and Premarin's) primary ingredient - estrogen - is derived from horse piss

So? There are numerous drugs that are sourced from animals. Hell, google "Fecal Transplant ICU". if you really want to be grossed out.

What point are you trying to make here?

Amos Quito: Pfizer has paid out over $600 million in settlements due to breast cancer caused by the menopause drug PremPro - so far.

Except that Hormone Replacement Therapy is no longer recommended to be used except in unique, case by case circumstances, and the patients are educated that it causes an increased risk of breast cancer with estrogen-receptor tumors.
 
2012-08-10 08:45:28 PM  

God-is-a-Taco: Marcus Aurelius:
They do it because it sells, especially with old people. Lots of them will do any damn thing the TV tells them to do.

You poor fool. I used to be like you, but now I'm on Ageless Male.
I'm stronger than I used to be, I have more energy, and I'm ready for romance if the time comes.


Targeted advertising is hilarious. The Military Channel has some of the best stuff. The demographic is clearly 50+ year old overweight men with shattered dreams of glory.


There's one for a weight-loss pill (can't remember the name), where you will be able to lose weight without changing your diet or exercising. There's a lady narrating it that says, "...only for people who are serious about losing weight." I can just imagine how many people get that hook set deep because it makes these pills sound like high-potency, serious business.

/fine print says they lost something like an average of 4 pounds over three months
 
2012-08-10 08:47:07 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: pxlboy: MBooda: aaaand their legal expenses are skyrocketing six times faster than their revenues.

You wish

And even if that WAS true, if only there was a way for pharmaceutical companies to limit the suits they lose. Like I don't know, properly vetting your drugs and making sure that diabetes drug isn't going to kill your customers. Whacky thought, I know.


Right?
 
2012-08-10 08:47:32 PM  
 
2012-08-10 08:48:52 PM  

Mutt Farkinov: God-is-a-Taco: Marcus Aurelius:
They do it because it sells, especially with old people. Lots of them will do any damn thing the TV tells them to do.

You poor fool. I used to be like you, but now I'm on Ageless Male.
I'm stronger than I used to be, I have more energy, and I'm ready for romance if the time comes.


Targeted advertising is hilarious. The Military Channel has some of the best stuff. The demographic is clearly 50+ year old overweight men with shattered dreams of glory.

There's one for a weight-loss pill (can't remember the name), where you will be able to lose weight without changing your diet or exercising. There's a lady narrating it that says, "...only for people who are serious about losing weight." I can just imagine how many people get that hook set deep because it makes these pills sound like high-potency, serious business.

/fine print says they lost something like an average of 4 pounds over three months


Diet pill commercials amaze me. I suppose there are people desperate (or more likely dumb) enough to believe that they can continue to stuff their faces while sitting on the couch and still lose weight.

Not sure if sad, angry, or both.
 
2012-08-10 08:49:20 PM  

Tyranicle: hitlersbrain: Stop hating America. Making a fortune by butt raping the oblivious middle class is what America is all about. If you don't like it, go to some socialist country that does not appreciate ass plundering atlases.

Ahh. A sarcastic jew who names himself 'Hitler'.


One day, I'ma be so rich, that I can buy my moms a house
Have a livin' room with a big TV and I'ma still sleep on the couch
I'ma have 'em like
Oy vey, holy cow, oh my god, wow
Oy vey, holy cow, oh my god, wow
It seems I'm gettin' fresher every time they turn around like
Oy vey, holy cow, oh my god, wow
 
2012-08-10 08:50:05 PM  

Mutt Farkinov: God-is-a-Taco: Marcus Aurelius:
They do it because it sells, especially with old people. Lots of them will do any damn thing the TV tells them to do.

You poor fool. I used to be like you, but now I'm on Ageless Male.
I'm stronger than I used to be, I have more energy, and I'm ready for romance if the time comes.


Targeted advertising is hilarious. The Military Channel has some of the best stuff. The demographic is clearly 50+ year old overweight men with shattered dreams of glory.

There's one for a weight-loss pill (can't remember the name), where you will be able to lose weight without changing your diet or exercising. There's a lady narrating it that says, "...only for people who are serious about losing weight." I can just imagine how many people get that hook set deep because it makes these pills sound like high-potency, serious business.

/fine print says they lost something like an average of 4 pounds over three months


If they want to spend money on drugs to lose weight, there's always cocaine or meth.

/no, i do not advocate their use
 
2012-08-10 08:51:23 PM  
I recently left academia and took a position as research scientist at a mid-sized biotech/pharma.

Personally, I love the work and the company so far. But I have to say it is an interesting feeling being in apparently one of the most hated industries on Fark.
 
2012-08-10 08:51:28 PM  

NowhereMon: Not to mention that you can write off 100% of your R&D expenses.


What business expense can NOT be written off 100% (ok, other than food expense for "marketing").
 
2012-08-10 08:53:43 PM  

Doc Daneeka: I recently left academia and took a position as research scientist at a mid-sized biotech/pharma.

Personally, I love the work and the company so far. But I have to say it is an interesting feeling being in apparently one of the most hated industries on Fark.


What sort of research are you doing?
 
2012-08-10 08:54:34 PM  
Doc Daneeka: Personally, I love the work and the company so far. But I have to say it is an interesting feeling being in apparently one of the most hated industries on Fark.

You're a cop?
 
2012-08-10 08:54:34 PM  

BMFPitt: Grobbley: In a nutshell, I'm saying that to say "I don't trust drug advertisements but I do trust my doctor" is about the same as "I don't trust corporations to do the right thing, but I do trust the government/my representatives to do the right thing"

No it's not.

It's more like "I don't trust the guy randomly cold-calling me about a hot stock tip, but I do trust my financial adviser." You may have hired a financial adviser who is trying to rip you off, but if you weren't smart enough to hire someone reputable then you're probably going to do just as badly doing it yourself.



The drug company only wants to make a profit and your doctor is only investing 15 minutes in your well-being.

It's YOUR health. Why should you trust anyone? When you're prescribed a drug, ASK YOUR DOCTOR QUESTIONS about the benefits, the side effects, interactions, contradictions, withdrawals, etc. And then ask your pharmacist - who probably knows more about the drug than your MD.

Then do you OWN research on the drug using reputable literature and websites (pubmed, webmd, etc.) Read peer reviewed studies.

Then find out what actual users of the product are saying. Ask A Patient is a great website. Type in the name of the drug you've been prescribed and read the experiences of others.

Finally, pay attention to your body. Each drug works differently for each individual. If it's not working well for you, contact your doctor. There are probably a dozen alternatives.

Bottom line: You're the one who has to live with the consequences.

Not your doctor, not the drug company, not the insurance company, YOU.
 
2012-08-10 08:54:53 PM  

laid back w/bud light: Try losing your job and insurance when you're on Stelara to clear your psoriasis. I was totally clear of the horrible skin disease on that drug. Months later I'm covered in plaque. Basically your skin grows too fast and dies off leaving pieces of dead skin the size of corn flakes that itch to no end. I called the pharma company to see If I could purchase it and have my dermatologist give me the shot (required 4 times a year). The price for one injection is $6,900 or close to $28,000 dollars per year. Wearing shorts is a luxury to me.


Sorry man.
 
2012-08-10 08:56:54 PM  
Thanks, that was pretty good. Would you like something to drink? I've got Sprite. Do you want some Sprite?
 
2012-08-10 08:58:38 PM  
NSS?
 
2012-08-10 09:02:04 PM  

Doc Daneeka: I recently left academia and took a position as research scientist at a mid-sized biotech/pharma.

Personally, I love the work and the company so far. But I have to say it is an interesting feeling being in apparently one of the most hated industries on Fark.


I used to be in pharma R&D,now in pharma doing something else.

The reason R&D cosfs are going up is that it has gotten harder to discover good candidates.

So while there is a grain of truth to the pharma greed argument, its only part of the story.
 
2012-08-10 09:03:56 PM  

Mugato: Grobbley: In a nutshell, I'm saying that to say "I don't trust drug advertisements but I do trust my doctor" is about the same as "I don't trust corporations to do the right thing, but I do trust the government/my representatives to do the right thing"

Alright but doctors do have the whole Hippocratic Oath thing and no, I'm not saying that it means that doctors are beyond reproach but doctors can get sued for malpractice very easily and they can lose their entire career very easily so yes, I will trust a doctor's advice over that of a commercial if for no other reason that a doctor has a lot to lose if he farks up.


I'm also not necessarily suggesting that trusting a doctor will get you killed. I'm just suggesting that they likely don't always have your best interest at heart. For instance, they might have a few different options for medicines to prescribe you, some cheaper than others, but they prescribe the more expensive option because some rep will keep giving them free stuff if they do. Not necessarily malpractice, just not in your best interest.
 
2012-08-10 09:04:47 PM  
I'm actually getting a kick out of this right now, because I'm having to argue with my insurance company over the drugs I've been prescribed.

Vyvance (Lisdextroamfetamine) is a wonderful drug. It's got a lot of efficacy studies out there, it's got a favorable side effect profile, and a low abuse and addiction potential. 250 dollars a month. Insurance company is not wanting to pay for it.

BUT.

THey're happy paying for Desoxyn. Desoxyn is METHAMPHETAMINE. High abuse and addiction potential, high cardiovascular side effect potential.

FML.
 
2012-08-10 09:06:43 PM  
It's BONER TIME!
 
2012-08-10 09:06:48 PM  

namatad: jchic: Why do you think the medical industry is more interested in treating symptoms rather than fighting the root cause of disease?

This is only partially true.
Take hypertension as an example. HT is caused by a myriad of diseases, genetic conditions and just plain you are fat and out of shape. Drugs which treat the HT are a god send and keep 100s of millions of people alive everyday. If you think for a second that a drug company wouldnt want to create a "perfect" diet pill then you are insane.


Please to explain. I understand that the company(s) that make HT drugs wouldn't want to create a "perfect" diet pill. Are they the only companies making drugs? Surely there is some drug company somewhere who isn't making HT drugs that could make a perfect diet pill, if it were possible.

Or do you just eat conspiracies for breakfast, lunch and dinner every day?
 
2012-08-10 09:07:38 PM  
Grobbley: Mugato: Grobbley: In a nutshell, I'm saying that to say "I don't trust drug advertisements but I do trust my doctor" is about the same as "I don't trust corporations to do the right thing, but I do trust the government/my representatives to do the right thing"

Alright but doctors do have the whole Hippocratic Oath thing and no, I'm not saying that it means that doctors are beyond reproach but doctors can get sued for malpractice very easily and they can lose their entire career very easily so yes, I will trust a doctor's advice over that of a commercial if for no other reason that a doctor has a lot to lose if he farks up.

I'm also not necessarily suggesting that trusting a doctor will get you killed. I'm just suggesting that they likely don't always have your best interest at heart. For instance, they might have a few different options for medicines to prescribe you, some cheaper than others, but they prescribe the more expensive option because some rep will keep giving them free stuff if they do. Not necessarily malpractice, just not in your best interest.


I think the best point out of this is do your research, and get a second opinion when a doctor prescribes a drug to you that is new, or that makes you feel uneasy based on that research. Especially if the doctor can't answer your questions to your satisfaction. But don't believe everything you read on the internet. Testimonials are not a good way to get information, because there are a lot of variables that affect individuals who take a certain medication.

Empowerment is great, but - in the end - you're a patient, not a Doctor. University of Google does not take the place of a medical education, and years of clinical experience that a family doctor, or a specialist has in their field.
 
2012-08-10 09:12:05 PM  

pxlboy: Doc Daneeka: I recently left academia and took a position as research scientist at a mid-sized biotech/pharma.

Personally, I love the work and the company so far. But I have to say it is an interesting feeling being in apparently one of the most hated industries on Fark.

What sort of research are you doing?


I'm a mouse geneticist. I work on developing genetically engineered mouse strains as disease models and for drug development, supporting research efforts in a number of different areas.
 
2012-08-10 09:15:23 PM  

Doc Daneeka: pxlboy: Doc Daneeka: I recently left academia and took a position as research scientist at a mid-sized biotech/pharma.

Personally, I love the work and the company so far. But I have to say it is an interesting feeling being in apparently one of the most hated industries on Fark.

What sort of research are you doing?

I'm a mouse geneticist. I work on developing genetically engineered mouse strains as disease models and for drug development, supporting research efforts in a number of different areas.


Word. I have a friend at Emory University doing genetics research on Alzheimer's. Just an intellectual curiosity, mostly. Good luck on your work.
 
2012-08-10 09:21:31 PM  

BronyMedic: Amos Quito: /PremPro's (and Premarin's) primary ingredient - estrogen - is derived from horse piss

So? There are numerous drugs that are sourced from animals. Hell, google "Fecal Transplant ICU". if you really want to be grossed out.

What point are you trying to make here?

Amos Quito: Pfizer has paid out over $600 million in settlements due to breast cancer caused by the menopause drug PremPro - so far.

Except that Hormone Replacement Therapy is no longer recommended to be used except in unique, case by case circumstances, and the patients are educated that it causes an increased risk of breast cancer with estrogen-receptor tumors.



Bullshiat. You need to brush up.

HRT is still the ONLY FDA approved treatment for menopause symptoms, and PremPro sales in 2010 were just under 200 million, and Premarin was probably close to that figure.

This is a far cry from their $2 billion peak in annual sales before the WHI study crashed their party, but the initial shock has worn off, and sales are steadily rising again as women are desperate for relief, and there is no FDA approved alternative (other than off-label prescriptions with little to no efficacy).
 
2012-08-10 09:25:05 PM  
Amos Quito: HRT is still the ONLY FDA approved treatment for menopause symptoms, and PremPro sales in 2010 were just under 200 million, and Premarin was probably close to that figure.

Holy shiat. That's terrifying.

The recommendations were, a few years back when this all hit the fan because of the use of HRT to prevent heart disease (when it did exactly the opposite), that the only time Premarin be used for menopausal symptoms were when they were so extreme that they impacted the quality of life a patient had.

Amos Quito: but the initial shock has worn off, and sales are steadily rising again as women are desperate for relief, and there is no FDA approved alternative (other than off-label prescriptions with little to no efficacy).

I'd say the problem lies in the fact that menopausal issues are primarily hormone related problems, and that when you jack with those hormones, it does a whole lot of other things to the body.
 
2012-08-10 09:26:51 PM  

pxlboy: Doc Daneeka: pxlboy: Doc Daneeka: I recently left academia and took a position as research scientist at a mid-sized biotech/pharma.

Personally, I love the work and the company so far. But I have to say it is an interesting feeling being in apparently one of the most hated industries on Fark.

What sort of research are you doing?

I'm a mouse geneticist. I work on developing genetically engineered mouse strains as disease models and for drug development, supporting research efforts in a number of different areas.

Word. I have a friend at Emory University doing genetics research on Alzheimer's. Just an intellectual curiosity, mostly. Good luck on your work.


*hugs both and scurries away wondering where* ;)
 
2012-08-10 09:27:59 PM  

Doc Daneeka: pxlboy: Doc Daneeka: I recently left academia and took a position as research scientist at a mid-sized biotech/pharma.

Personally, I love the work and the company so far. But I have to say it is an interesting feeling being in apparently one of the most hated industries on Fark.

What sort of research are you doing?

I'm a mouse geneticist. I work on developing genetically engineered mouse strains as disease models and for drug development, supporting research efforts in a number of different areas.



www.signsbypost.com

Just kidding!

Godspeed, Doc Daneeka

/And PLEASE don't engineer MOUSEZILLA!
 
2012-08-10 09:33:15 PM  

Amos Quito: Doc Daneeka: pxlboy: Doc Daneeka: I recently left academia and took a position as research scientist at a mid-sized biotech/pharma.

Personally, I love the work and the company so far. But I have to say it is an interesting feeling being in apparently one of the most hated industries on Fark.

What sort of research are you doing?

I'm a mouse geneticist. I work on developing genetically engineered mouse strains as disease models and for drug development, supporting research efforts in a number of different areas.


[www.signsbypost.com image 250x250]

Just kidding!

Godspeed, Doc Daneeka

/And PLEASE don't engineer MOUSEZILLA!


www.brideuniverse.com
 
2012-08-10 09:35:09 PM  

NowhereMon: Not to mention that you can write off 100% of your R&D expenses.


Let's see what they charge in other nations where prices are capped..
 
2012-08-10 09:43:24 PM  
The only people who matter these days are Shareholders.
Greedy, cold-hearted, reptillian shareholders,
And the goddamn politicians they bribe to do their bidding.
 
2012-08-10 09:47:14 PM  
Day_Old_Dutchie: Greedy, cold-hearted, reptillian shareholders,

David Icke? You post on fark?
 
2012-08-10 09:53:07 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: God-is-a-Taco: I'm stronger than I used to be, I have more energy, and I'm ready for romance if the time comes.

Uh oh, Selective Middle-Aged Memory Loss. It's when you think you're smarter or in better shape at 40 than 20...


You SHOULD be smarter at 40 than 20. Granted, your IQ won't be any higher, but if you should have learned something useful from the additional 20 years of life experiences.
 
2012-08-10 10:00:38 PM  

pxlboy: Mike Chewbacca: pxlboy: MBooda: aaaand their legal expenses are skyrocketing six times faster than their revenues.

You wish

And even if that WAS true, if only there was a way for pharmaceutical companies to limit the suits they lose. Like I don't know, properly vetting your drugs and making sure that diabetes drug isn't going to kill your customers. Whacky thought, I know.

Right?


Well, sure. We all know that every settlement against Big Pharma is just.

/you wish
 
2012-08-10 10:02:03 PM  
MBooda: pxlboy: Mike Chewbacca: pxlboy: MBooda: aaaand their legal expenses are skyrocketing six times faster than their revenues.

You wish

And even if that WAS true, if only there was a way for pharmaceutical companies to limit the suits they lose. Like I don't know, properly vetting your drugs and making sure that diabetes drug isn't going to kill your customers. Whacky thought, I know.

Right?

Well, sure. We all know that every settlement against Big Pharma is just.

/you wish


Oh. Burn.
 
2012-08-10 10:04:41 PM  

MBooda: pxlboy: Mike Chewbacca: pxlboy: MBooda: aaaand their legal expenses are skyrocketing six times faster than their revenues.

You wish

And even if that WAS true, if only there was a way for pharmaceutical companies to limit the suits they lose. Like I don't know, properly vetting your drugs and making sure that diabetes drug isn't going to kill your customers. Whacky thought, I know.

Right?

Well, sure. We all know that every settlement against Big Pharma is just.

/you wish


Seriously?

The Architects of the World Through Chemicality have proven repeatedly their incompetence when it comes to benefit over profit. 'Nuff said.
 
2012-08-10 10:23:52 PM  

Amos Quito: The drug company only wants to make a profit and your doctor is only investing 15 minutes in your well-being.

It's YOUR health. Why should you trust anyone?


Because my doctor went to medical school, practices medicine professionally, and knows what the fark he's talking about.

Finally, pay attention to your body. Each drug works differently for each individual. If it's not working well for you, contact your doctor. There are probably a dozen alternatives.

So were you under the impression that anyone, anywhere, ever, was advocating that once an initial diagnosis has been made and a prescription has been given that there should be no follow-up?
 
2012-08-10 10:28:01 PM  

BronyMedic: Amos Quito: HRT is still the ONLY FDA approved treatment for menopause symptoms, and PremPro sales in 2010 were just under 200 million, and Premarin was probably close to that figure.

Holy shiat. That's terrifying.

The recommendations were, a few years back when this all hit the fan because of the use of HRT to prevent heart disease (when it did exactly the opposite), that the only time Premarin be used for menopausal symptoms were when they were so extreme that they impacted the quality of life a patient had.

Amos Quito: but the initial shock has worn off, and sales are steadily rising again as women are desperate for relief, and there is no FDA approved alternative (other than off-label prescriptions with little to no efficacy).

I'd say the problem lies in the fact that menopausal issues are primarily hormone related problems, and that when you jack with those hormones, it does a whole lot of other things to the body.



Damn straight. I did a lot of research on this topic when the Mrs. was having a bad go with menopause a while back. Read a very interesting study by a Dr. Freedman on how estrogen interacts with neurotransmitters, and this would seem to explain why women suffer from such a wide variety symptoms during menopause.

This interaction with neurotransmitters may be why SSRI and SNRI antidepressants seem to be effective in relieving hot flashes and night sweat symptoms - at least in some women - but the side effects can be nasty, especially with the SNRI's.

"Mrs. Quito" could not take hormones due to family history of cancer, and suffered horribly from hot flashes, mood swings, depression and many other symptoms. She tried the AD's, (Effexor) but they didn't sit well with her at all, and the withdrawals were like coming off of heroin..

She also tried soy, Remifemin (black cohosh), red clover, chinese herbs and just about every other "natural" remedy you can think of with little or no luck. This went on for years, driving both of us crazy, and it got to the point where she couldn't work, and took a leave of absence. I spent a fortune, and it was maddening.

Finally she bought a product on Amazon that really did work for her, and fast. The difference in her (our) quality of life has been amazing. Her hot flashes and night sweats are all but gone, her emotional and anxiety craziness has really mellowed out. She's happy, back to work, and life has pretty much gotten back to "normal", if there is such a thing.
 
2012-08-10 10:43:37 PM  

BMFPitt: Amos Quito: The drug company only wants to make a profit and your doctor is only investing 15 minutes in your well-being.

It's YOUR health. Why should you trust anyone?

Because my doctor went to medical school, practices medicine professionally, and knows what the fark he's talking about.

Finally, pay attention to your body. Each drug works differently for each individual. If it's not working well for you, contact your doctor. There are probably a dozen alternatives.

So were you under the impression that anyone, anywhere, ever, was advocating that once an initial diagnosis has been made and a prescription has been given that there should be no follow-up?



Not at all. It's just that many people seem to place an undue amount of faith in their doctors and the candy they prescribe. Doctors are always pressed for time, and most people don't ask enough questions or bother to research their meds, and are SHOCKED when they start having unexpected adverse effects.

Point is, you are your own best health advocate.
 
2012-08-10 11:01:48 PM  
And they pay tort lawyers more. It's more than R&D, you have research, you have marketing, etc. And if they didn't make a drug they'd be investigated.
 
2012-08-10 11:02:32 PM  

Doc Daneeka: I recently left academia and took a position as research scientist at a mid-sized biotech/pharma.

Personally, I love the work and the company so far. But I have to say it is an interesting feeling being in apparently one of the most hated industries on Fark.


Yeah, but they're conflicted on vaccines. They hate the anti-vax schlock but can't reconcile with the eeeeeevil pharma industry.

/Small biotech company
//Just want to make more than $35k for all the work I do
 
2012-08-10 11:03:38 PM  

jchic: Why do you think the medical industry is more interested in treating symptoms rather than fighting the root cause of disease?


Because we already know the root cause of most disease?

/obesity/poor diet/sloth
//cigarettes
///excessive etoh
 
2012-08-10 11:08:04 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Mambo Bananapatch: barring degenerative mental illness or brain damage.

Being over 30 *IS* a degenerative mental illness. You just THINK you're smarter. Fine. Go back to university. You wouldn't last a week.


I went back to university at the age of 50 for a graduate degree (MBA). I graduated with a 4.0 GPA. The program lasted much longer than a week. Interestingly, my professors often told me that younger students couldn't write a coherent essay.
 
2012-08-10 11:17:01 PM  

laid back w/bud light: Try losing your job and insurance when you're on Stelara to clear your psoriasis. I was totally clear of the horrible skin disease on that drug. Months later I'm covered in plaque. Basically your skin grows too fast and dies off leaving pieces of dead skin the size of corn flakes that itch to no end. I called the pharma company to see If I could purchase it and have my dermatologist give me the shot (required 4 times a year). The price for one injection is $6,900 or close to $28,000 dollars per year. Wearing shorts is a luxury to me.


=========

You're just not boot strappy enough. If you were a quality person, instead of a whiny welfare whore, you'd go out and start a business, or go back back to school and study the hot new thing, or get three more minimum wage jobs. I'm tired of you "gimme, gimme" types...............Add your own Ayn Rand, Austrian School, Mitt Romney GOP bullshiat here _______________.
 
2012-08-10 11:23:29 PM  

NowhereMon: Not to mention that you get the patents that were tax payer paid for and university patented.

 
2012-08-10 11:24:05 PM  

NowhereMon: Not to mention that you can write off 100% of your R&D expenses.


That's only if they are actually "their" cost.
Pharmas get hundreds of millions in government subsidies to pay for R&D to encourage them to invest in R&D.
 
2012-08-10 11:41:05 PM  
I work at a pharma company. I can tell you that they don't spend much on R&D and they don't pass the savings on to you.

Ways to avoid spending on R&D:
-Find new indications for existing drugs
-Extending existing patents
-Slight reformulations of existing drugs

Also, what money they spend goes to layers of ineffectual middle management.

/bitter
 
2012-08-10 11:44:43 PM  

NowhereMon: Not to mention that you can write off 100% of your R&D expenses.


Seriously dude, what do you think "write off" means? They are expenses, like all expenses, they mitigate revenue to create profit. profit is what you are taxed on.
 
2012-08-10 11:45:45 PM  
The number of people doing R&D is relatively fixed because it's an advanced career path and even a push for new pharmaceutical researchers would take 5-10 years to make a change.

The number of people popping pills is going up because a)people in the west are getting old b) people in the rest of the world are starting to afford western diseases.
 
2012-08-10 11:49:33 PM  
See?
 
2012-08-11 12:25:59 AM  
So, if drug companies are making much more than what they put into R&D I should go long?

Or should I short them because they aren't spending enough on R&D?

Which companies specifically?
 
2012-08-11 12:31:29 AM  

Farxist Marxist: Quantum Apostrophe: Mambo Bananapatch: barring degenerative mental illness or brain damage.

Being over 30 *IS* a degenerative mental illness. You just THINK you're smarter. Fine. Go back to university. You wouldn't last a week.

I went back to university at the age of 50 for a graduate degree (MBA). I graduated with a 4.0 GPA. The program lasted much longer than a week. Interestingly, my professors often told me that younger students couldn't write a coherent essay.


In a few weeks, at the age of 32, I'm going back to college for IT. I'll have to check back in on whether it's more or less difficult than the last go-round.
 
Skr
2012-08-11 12:39:25 AM  

Amos Quito: BronyMedic: Amos Quito: HRT is still the ONLY FDA approved treatment for menopause symptoms, and PremPro sales in 2010 were just under 200 million, and Premarin was probably close to that figure.

Holy shiat. That's terrifying.

The recommendations were, a few years back when this all hit the fan because of the use of HRT to prevent heart disease (when it did exactly the opposite), that the only time Premarin be used for menopausal symptoms were when they were so extreme that they impacted the quality of life a patient had.

Amos Quito: but the initial shock has worn off, and sales are steadily rising again as women are desperate for relief, and there is no FDA approved alternative (other than off-label prescriptions with little to no efficacy).

I'd say the problem lies in the fact that menopausal issues are primarily hormone related problems, and that when you jack with those hormones, it does a whole lot of other things to the body.


Damn straight. I did a lot of research on this topic when the Mrs. was having a bad go with menopause a while back. Read a very interesting study by a Dr. Freedman on how estrogen interacts with neurotransmitters, and this would seem to explain why women suffer from such a wide variety symptoms during menopause.

This interaction with neurotransmitters may be why SSRI and SNRI antidepressants seem to be effective in relieving hot flashes and night sweat symptoms - at least in some women - but the side effects can be nasty, especially with the SNRI's.

"Mrs. Quito" could not take hormones due to family history of cancer, and suffered horribly from hot flashes, mood swings, depression and many other symptoms. She tried the AD's, (Effexor) but they didn't sit well with her at all, and the withdrawals were like coming off of heroin..

She also tried soy, Remifemin (black cohosh), red clover, chinese herbs and just about every other "natural" remedy you can think of with little or no luck. This went on for years, driving both of us crazy ...


Premarin and then Effexor really messed my mother up. One of those 'Cure worse than the disease' scenarios. That Wisdom stuff on Amazon looks promising, but trying to get her to take anything even vaguely holistic looking would be futile -_-
 
2012-08-11 01:15:02 AM  

MacWizard: You SHOULD be smarter at 40 than 20. Granted, your IQ won't be any higher, but if you should have learned something useful from the additional 20 years of life experiences.


You're just coasting at that point. It's demented to think you can learn and think as fast as in your 20s. And as for your physical side, come on. Stop bullshiatting yourself. You're a fat, slow, farty, hairy and dumb version of you at 20. Easily tired, prone to injury, fearful and unable to learn new things.

But the species will totally conquer the infinite reaches of space with a modified ape with the lifespan of a gnat.
 
2012-08-11 01:25:02 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: MacWizard: You SHOULD be smarter at 40 than 20. Granted, your IQ won't be any higher, but if you should have learned something useful from the additional 20 years of life experiences.

You're just coasting at that point. It's demented to think you can learn and think as fast as in your 20s. And as for your physical side, come on. Stop bullshiatting yourself. You're a fat, slow, farty, hairy and dumb version of you at 20. Easily tired, prone to injury, fearful and unable to learn new things.

But the species will totally conquer the infinite reaches of space with a modified ape with the lifespan of a gnat.


Cold.
 
2012-08-11 02:25:18 AM  
Told you so. Years and years ago.

Most ignored me. Many told me I was full of shiat. Glad to notice that those smarter than me are saying similar things to what I said.

BTW. I don't suppose anyone recalls the little report years ago, about the Great, Kind and Caring Pharmaceutical Industries millions of (tax write-off) drugs to charities and needy nations?

Seems most of those drugs were expired, due to be destroyed but some corporate genius figured out how to make more money off them without the expense of disposal.

You can't even give your unused, hideously expensive drugs away to the needy. It's against the law. Big Pharma backed that bill heavily. You're not supposed to toss them either -- you can pollute the water and soil. However, many pharmacies will take your unneeded drugs and ship them away for proper disposal -- usually a drug company -- for a fee.

This all started about the time lawyers discovered they could become billionaires by suing drug companies for even the tiniest medication reaction.

Oh. All of those discount drug cards you see all over the place? They're worthless if you have Medicare Pt. D. and almost everyone on Medicare has to have Pt.-D.
 
2012-08-11 02:49:11 AM  
Within 10 years, you will be able to walk into a Walgreen's with a diagnosis from your doctor, stick your finger in a device for a blood sample, wait 30 minutes (or less), and walk out with a designer drug tailored to your body. This will include certain types of cancers, which will be eliminated by that drug. Also no side effects beyond possibly a mild fever.
 
2012-08-11 03:52:50 AM  

Needlessly Complicated: I work at a pharma company. I can tell you that they don't spend much on R&D and they don't pass the savings on to you.

Ways to avoid spending on R&D:
-Find new indications for existing drugs
-Extending existing patents
-Slight reformulations of existing drugs

Also, what money they spend goes to layers of ineffectual middle management.

/bitter


The HELL you say.
 
2012-08-11 03:54:49 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: MacWizard: You SHOULD be smarter at 40 than 20. Granted, your IQ won't be any higher, but if you should have learned something useful from the additional 20 years of life experiences.

You're just coasting at that point. It's demented to think you can learn and think as fast as in your 20s. And as for your physical side, come on. Stop bullshiatting yourself. You're a fat, slow, farty, hairy and dumb version of you at 20. Easily tired, prone to injury, fearful and unable to learn new things.

But the species will totally conquer the infinite reaches of space with a modified ape with the lifespan of a gnat.


I didn't say you can learn and think as fast as in your 20s when you get to 40, nor did I suggest that you would be a better physical specimen. Just that you should be smarter with an extra 20 years of experience.

And one of the things that most of us learn is that we did a lot of stupid shiat when we were 20.
 
2012-08-11 05:04:43 AM  
wraithmare: Within 10 years, you will be able to walk into a Walgreen's with a diagnosis from your doctor, stick your finger in a device for a blood sample, wait 30 minutes (or less), and walk out with a designer drug tailored to your body. This will include certain types of cancers, which will be eliminated by that drug. Also no side effects beyond possibly a mild fever.

Genetic Engineering and Nanotechnology are wonderful, aren't they?
 
2012-08-11 08:17:14 AM  

BronyMedic: wraithmare: Within 10 years, you will be able to walk into a Walgreen's with a diagnosis from your doctor, stick your finger in a device for a blood sample, wait 30 minutes (or less), and walk out with a designer drug tailored to your body. This will include certain types of cancers, which will be eliminated by that drug. Also no side effects beyond possibly a mild fever.

Genetic Engineering and Nanotechnology are wonderful, aren't they?


And you'll walk out to your flying car into a cheery world of helpful robots and homes that hover.
 
2012-08-11 10:29:07 AM  

BronyMedic: I'm actually getting a kick out of this right now, because I'm having to argue with my insurance company over the drugs I've been prescribed.

Vyvance (Lisdextroamfetamine) is a wonderful drug. It's got a lot of efficacy studies out there, it's got a favorable side effect profile, and a low abuse and addiction potential. 250 dollars a month. Insurance company is not wanting to pay for it.

BUT.

THey're happy paying for Desoxyn. Desoxyn is METHAMPHETAMINE. High abuse and addiction potential, high cardiovascular side effect potential.

FML.


The faster they can turn you into a tweaker and either get your heart to explode or doing the mind-bogglingly stupid shiat tweakers do, the faster they can get your money-sink ass off their rolls. Insurance perfected every bit of evil and gouging that pharma is accused of, centuries before.
 
2012-08-11 12:20:16 PM  
I used to sympathize with the big pharmaceutical manufacturers, because it costs over 900 mil to get a drug on the market, and only 1 in 1000 chemicals developed actually make it, but then I found out they spend 3 times as much on marketing as they do on R & D. Who do they really have to market to? If its really worth a damn, docs and pharmacists are going to find out about it.

Try this big pharma: Don't make crap you know is a marketing gimmick. I won't name specific drugs in public but you know the ones. Where you use one isomer instead of another but there's no clinical difference in efficacy, or make a controlled release product of a drug with a 12 hour half-life. I could go on, but you know what I'm talking about, because you have to pay the guys who destroy that crap when it goes out of date.
 
2012-08-11 12:22:36 PM  

Mrtraveler01: meow said the dog: Hold on I thought they could no longer make the profits due to the Obamacare?

Considering that most of the R&D is done in places like Europe, Southeast Asia and Israel. I'm not surprised.


Actually a great deal of it is done at American universities as well, so it's partially taxpayer funded.
 
2012-08-12 10:32:34 AM  

Indubitably: The Architects of the World Through Chemicality have proven repeatedly their incompetence when it comes to benefit over profit. 'Nuff said.


OK...they're proven to be incompetent. Or they're diabolical masterminds at reaping the revenues.

Which is it? Can't have it both ways.
 
2012-08-13 10:35:39 AM  

MBooda: Indubitably: The Architects of the World Through Chemicality have proven repeatedly their incompetence when it comes to benefit over profit. 'Nuff said.

OK...they're proven to be incompetent. Or they're diabolical masterminds at reaping the revenues.

Which is it? Can't have it both ways.



Revenues/Profits: Masterminds

Soul/Conscience: VACANCY
 
2012-08-13 07:13:59 PM  

MBooda: Indubitably: The Architects of the World Through Chemicality have proven repeatedly their incompetence when it comes to benefit over profit. 'Nuff said.

OK...they're proven to be incompetent. Or they're diabolical masterminds at reaping the revenues.

Which is it? Can't have it both ways.


These two are not mutually exclusive, and you know it, Trustafarian...

;)
 
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