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(Think Progress)   GOP lawmaker in California opposes fines for drivers who text while driving because it's not what "the founders intended"   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 105
    More: Dumbass, GOP, state legislators, Joe Donnelly  
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1517 clicks; posted to Politics » on 10 Aug 2012 at 6:44 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-10 03:37:08 PM  
This is true. Have you not read the quote by Jefferson?

"OMG txtin while drivin is rite 4 every1."
 
2012-08-10 03:43:07 PM  
They're encroaching on the 1st Amendment! Freedom of speech, baby!
 
2012-08-10 03:44:42 PM  
If you asked one of the founding fathers if it was OK to drive a team of horses down main street with your eyes closed, I'm pretty sure they'd say no.
 
2012-08-10 03:45:30 PM  
This is why the Republicans are a permanent minority party in California
 
2012-08-10 03:59:04 PM  
"Verily, tho one may be distracted in one's carriage when a maiden inserteth her hand into one's trousers, still it should not be punished by law." -Benjamin Franklin
 
2012-08-10 04:02:21 PM  
Want to see drivers policing themselves? Head out sometime when lightning has taken out the traffic signals and if it still seems like a good idea to you, then we can talk.
 
2012-08-10 04:04:06 PM  

sweetmelissa31: "Verily, tho one may be distracted in one's carriage when a maiden inserteth her hand into one's trousers, still it should not be punished by law." -Benjamin Franklin


i.imgur.com
 
2012-08-10 04:10:02 PM  

Dogberry: Want to see drivers policing themselves? Head out sometime when lightning has taken out the traffic signals and if it still seems like a good idea to you, then we can talk.


A lack of traffic control can actually produce fairly good drivers. This video, for instance has zero crashes or fatalities; although it does have very many close calls. I believe it is some kind of darwinian effect, which would however limit it's applicability in most of the US.
 
2012-08-10 04:11:28 PM  
And as intelligent, rational human beings who live in a free society, is it too much to ask that we just police ourselves?

That's what I've been saying all along! Why must we live in this society obsessed with "law" and "order", and labels like "murder" and "rape" and "breaking and entering"? Ben Franklin weeps, you Authoritarian louses
 
2012-08-10 04:19:09 PM  

Karac: Dogberry: Want to see drivers policing themselves? Head out sometime when lightning has taken out the traffic signals and if it still seems like a good idea to you, then we can talk.

A lack of traffic control can actually produce fairly good drivers. This video, for instance has zero crashes or fatalities; although it does have very many close calls. I believe it is some kind of darwinian effect, which would however limit it's applicability in most of the US.


I think I just made curry in my pants.
 
2012-08-10 04:23:45 PM  

mahuika: And as intelligent, rational human beings who live in a free society, is it too much to ask that we just police ourselves?

That's what I've been saying all along! Why must we live in this society obsessed with "law" and "order", and labels like "murder" and "rape" and "breaking and entering"? Ben Franklin weeps, you Authoritarian louses


What's next? Laws telling me what I can and can't dumb down the storm drain in front of my house? Thanks a lot President Fart
 
2012-08-10 04:31:08 PM  
whn n tha cours uv humn evnts it bcoms necs 4 1 ppl 2 dizolv tha politcl bnds wch hve cnnctd thm 2 1 anthr
 
2012-08-10 04:31:26 PM  
The founders didn't intend on airplanes, should those be banned too?
 
2012-08-10 04:33:08 PM  

themindiswatching: The founders didn't intend on airplanes, should those be banned too?


I think you accidentally it.
 
2012-08-10 04:38:17 PM  
I'll tell the next person I pull out of their car after they wreck it while texting that they are doing it right then, if they are still alive.


//happens more than you think
 
2012-08-10 04:44:18 PM  
facultywp.ccri.edu

"A hoy hoy! Douche here."
 
2012-08-10 04:45:50 PM  
Fun Fact: The "founding father" of traffic laws is William Eno.
 
2012-08-10 04:50:33 PM  
So the GOP has sort of backed off on that whole "personal responsibility" thing now?
 
2012-08-10 04:55:41 PM  

vernonFL: [facultywp.ccri.edu image 500x397]

"A hoy hoy! Douche here."


Oonch-oonch-oocnh [static scratch] oonch-oonch.

Early subwoofer assholes.
 
2012-08-10 05:02:38 PM  

Karac: If you asked one of the founding fathers if it was OK to drive a team of horses down main street with your eyes closed, I'm pretty sure they'd say no.


I always wondered what horses would do if they were pulling a carriage and you aren't paying attention. Do they just keep going in a straight line until they get tired?
 
2012-08-10 05:24:46 PM  

Lsherm: I always wondered what horses would do if they were pulling a carriage and you aren't paying attention. Do they just keep going in a straight line until they get tired?


If you were near home, they would head for the barn, place of brushdown and oats...

If not, they would probably trundle on a bit then graze.
 
2012-08-10 05:30:51 PM  
And as intelligent, rational human beings

lolwut?

who live in a free society

srsly?

is it too much to ask that we just police ourselves?

yes...do you expect self-policing to actually work?

It just seems that's what the founders intended. [citation needed]

Are you saying that the Founders thought that self-policing would...would...wait, what are you saying?

And I feel like this is just more of a nanny state government that costs us a lot of money

Do you really think government on the cheap is desirable?

...and ultimately abridges more and more liberties

Do you really believe that less government = more freedom? Be sure to remember the populations who would go unprotected without a central authority (ie, damn near everyone)

is the government going to tell me where I can go next?

Horrible thought!! I shall consider it as I vacation in Cuba...oh, wait

Or how many miles I can drive?

lolwut? who said that about what, now?
 
2012-08-10 05:52:14 PM  

Karac: A lack of traffic control can actually produce fairly good drivers. This video, for instance has zero crashes or fatalities;


India has the most dangerous roads of any country on the planet.

Link
 
2012-08-10 06:13:08 PM  
And there's nothing in the Bible prohibiting it either.

/does this guy think he's going to snag some hs tail with this?
 
2012-08-10 06:36:58 PM  
How any lawmaker can say that is kind of telling of their enslavement to corporate masters.
 
2012-08-10 06:38:56 PM  
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-08-10 06:46:52 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: This is why the Republicans are a permanent minority party in California

 
2012-08-10 06:49:19 PM  
All fine and good but when a driver texting kills one of your loved one, kindly STFU.
 
2012-08-10 06:52:27 PM  
I'm pretty sure the founding fathers would think it a monumentally stupid idea to draft a letter while driving a carriage, so no, go fark yourself douchebag
 
2012-08-10 06:53:40 PM  
Who cares what the founders thought/wanted/intended anyway? They've been gone for almost 200 years, they're no longer relevant. It's our country now, not theirs.
 
2012-08-10 06:57:26 PM  
Oh look, it's farking Tim Donnelly. This guy is clown shoes.
 
2012-08-10 07:00:52 PM  

mrjared: Oh look, it's farking Tim Donnelly. This guy is clown shoes.


Never heard of him, but yeah, I gathered that fairly quickly.
 
2012-08-10 07:02:07 PM  

Dogberry: Want to see drivers policing themselves? Head out sometime when lightning has taken out the traffic signals and if it still seems like a good idea to you, then we can talk.


Several years go in San Diego, a large construction crane fell across the junction of the 5 and the 805. It also knocked out power for all of La Jolla for several hours. I had a 6am shift at my office in La Jolla, so I didn't get stuck in the shiat-tastic traffic, but I did get shunted off the 5 an exit early (LJ Village Drive instead of Genessee). It was about 5:55 am and still kinda dark. I drove through two intersections before I realized the light wasn't green. It wasn't red, it wasn't yellow or flashing red or flashing yellow. It was completely off. The next light I obviously stopped at, but another driver on the cross street went right through it, just like I had the other lights. In my defense, I didn't normally go that route, so I wasn't used to the lights there. It was also barely light out, and no one else was on the road (until that other driver ran the light). And honestly, most people look for a colored light to tell them what to do, they don't look for the LACK of a light to tell them what to do.

/so lucky I didn't hit that other car
//fkn employer had a back up genny, so it was a normal work day for us
 
2012-08-10 07:02:59 PM  
DONNELLY: And I think the fact that you might cause a death, someone else's death or your own, is such a powerful prohibiter of that, that we really don't need to be increasing the fine. And I don't think we need to have the cops pulling people over and giving them texting tickets.

If the fact that you might cause a death, someone else's death or your own, is such a powerful prohibiter, cops would have no one to pull over.
 
2012-08-10 07:05:47 PM  

had98c: Who cares what the founders thought/wanted/intended anyway? They've been gone for almost 200 years, they're no longer relevant. It's our country now, not theirs.


But the Constitution is perfect. Didn't you get the memo?

/anyways, what's freedom but slavishly following the writings (or guess about them) of a bunch of guys who wouldn't stoop as low as to acknowledge your existence (I'm assuming you are not a man of proper blood - may be wrong there)
 
2012-08-10 07:07:54 PM  

had98c: Who cares what the founders thought/wanted/intended anyway? They've been gone for almost 200 years, they're no longer relevant. It's our country now, not theirs.


Thomas Jefferson would totally agree with you. Seriously.
 
2012-08-10 07:11:20 PM  

impaler: DONNELLY: And I think the fact that you might cause a death, someone else's death or your own, is such a powerful prohibiter of that, that we really don't need to be increasing the fine. And I don't think we need to have the cops pulling people over and giving them texting tickets.

If the fact that you might cause a death, someone else's death or your own, is such a powerful prohibiter, cops would have no one to pull over.


We wouldn't need DUI laws, either, obviously
 
2012-08-10 07:11:46 PM  
I have no problem with people being pulled over for even slightly erratic driving, but targeting the activity of texting specifically, when there are so many ways to be distracted while driving, is remarkably arbitrary authoritarianism. Especially in jurisdictions that leave other cellphone use legal. This is politics, not science.
 
2012-08-10 07:14:07 PM  
FTFA:

And as intelligent, rational human beings who live in a free society, is it too much to ask that we just police ourselves?

Yeah, police are totally unnecessary. You go first.
 
2012-08-10 07:19:36 PM  

Nem Wan: I have no problem with people being pulled over for even slightly erratic driving, but targeting the activity of texting specifically, when there are so many ways to be distracted while driving, is remarkably arbitrary authoritarianism. Especially in jurisdictions that leave other cellphone use legal. This is politics, not science.


It's totally unfair to the texting lobby.
 
2012-08-10 07:24:43 PM  

sweetmelissa31: "Verily, tho one may be distracted in one's carriage when a maiden inserteth her hand into one's trousers, still it should not be punished by law." -Benjamin Franklin


You might be smart, because you picked the one founding father that probably did say that.

You might be dumb, because you had him speaking like a 15th century barrister.
 
2012-08-10 07:30:31 PM  
I don't know about the founders, but the politicians around the time of the Civil War were not averse to some distracted driving. Franklin Pierce (early 1850s) was arrested for running over a woman with a horse while drunk (and a sitting president), and Ulysses Grant (late 1860s) was similarly pulled over for reckless (probably drunken) driving in a buggy and actually convicted and fined while in office.

Admittedly these stories only survived a century and a half because they were both legendary drunkards, but the fact that people in the early/mid 1800s had no problems electing legendary drunkards to the highest executive office in the land kinda tells you something about how much the people of that era cared about traffic safety.

Nem Wan: I have no problem with people being pulled over for even slightly erratic driving, but targeting the activity of texting specifically, when there are so many ways to be distracted while driving, is remarkably arbitrary authoritarianism. Especially in jurisdictions that leave other cellphone use legal. This is politics, not science.


Actually in most jurisdictions general bad driving, driving while sleepy, and so on are all illegal as well. The thing about texting while driving is that it's absolutely, completely effort-free to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you were actually doing it, whereas if you just show up in court and claim you totally weren't falling asleep at the wheel it's your word against the officer's, which isn't as effective for the cops as you might think.

//Subpoenaing your phone records and checking for sent messages/sent calls/received calls within 5 minutes of your being pulled over can be done so fast with the judge already sitting there that they might not even bother doing it until your actual hearing, it takes like 5 minutes.
 
2012-08-10 07:37:00 PM  
The Founders didn't intend for there to be a California either. It was all Spanish territory...
 
2012-08-10 07:59:03 PM  

Jim_Callahan: The thing about texting while driving is that it's absolutely, completely effort-free to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you were actually doing it


Oh really. Let's consider the jurisdictions where phone use is allowed but texting is banned. I have an iPhone. An incoming call displays on the screen in exactly the same way as an incoming text. I read the screen. Did I break the law or not based on whether it was a call or a text? Or: I send a text message consisting of 10 characters or less, like "OK" or "on the way". Maybe I didn't even type it, I just pushed the voice dictation button and spoke. I think dialing a phone number or even looking someone up in Contacts to call would be more distracting. Or: I use a headset to verbally have Siri compose and send a text message, or read an incoming text message to me. How did I break the law when my hands and eyes were just where they would be if I made a phone call? Finally: my phone contains a lot of personal information. Does driving constitute consent to have a cop search my phone anytime he wants to find out if I was illegally texting or legally talking? And when the cops search my phone and find texting happening during a time I was driving, there's no evidence if I typed it or used voice software. Shall I go on?
 
2012-08-10 08:04:17 PM  
It takes some doing to be dumber than a Democratic California state legislator, but damned if he didn't pull it off.

Even if we all know damn well that "$10 for awareness programs" = "$10 for patronage jobs".
 
2012-08-10 08:11:56 PM  
I'm more shocked that California has a fine on the books that's only $30.

I ran a short red one time and got dinged for like $400.
 
2012-08-10 08:23:22 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: I'm more shocked that California has a fine on the books that's only $30.

I ran a short red one time and got dinged for like $400.


It's more like $10 for the fine and $230 in court and administration fees.
 
2012-08-10 08:23:54 PM  
frm my cld ded fngrs1
 
2012-08-10 08:24:47 PM  
Weyoun: Pah-wraiths and Prophets. All this talk of gods strikes me as nothing more than superstitious nonsense.

Damar: You believe that the Founders are gods, don't you?

Weyoun: That's different.

Damar: [laughs] In what way?

Weyoun: The Founders are gods.
 
2012-08-10 08:27:28 PM  
"And as intelligent, rational human beings who live in a free society, is it too much to ask that we just police ourselves?"

Apparently so. (Oh, and the bans don't actually work. Sorry.)

/"Must be a yearning deep in human heart to stop other people from doing as they please. Rules, laws - always for other fellow. A murky part of us, something we had before we came down out of trees, and failed to shuck when we stood up. Because not one of those people said: "Please pass this so that I won't be able to do something I know I should stop." Nyet, tovarishchee, was always something they hated to see neighbors doing. Stop them "for their own good" - not because speaker claimed to be harmed by it." - Robert A. Heinlein
 
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