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(Time)   America is quietly killing it when it comes to renewable energy   (swampland.time.com) divider line 186
    More: Spiffy, President Obama, solar farms, stimulus bill, renewable energy, energy consumption, Things Are Looking Up  
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4497 clicks; posted to Politics » on 10 Aug 2012 at 11:55 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-10 12:26:10 PM  
I wonder if Romney has considered that the rest of the industrialized world and trivial industrializing country's like China have been putting a lot of investment into renewable. The amount of energy and economy produced around the world is not imaginary. The US stands to loose the tech and economic race for these.
 
2012-08-10 12:26:42 PM  

snowshovel: Noone seems to mention that Obama seems to enjoy killing migratory birds


That i've heard this argument so much from renewable opponents, typically those that hate wind and support fossil fuel couldn't care less about the flora and the fauna

/I know you jus' joshin'
 
2012-08-10 12:26:52 PM  

mrshowrules: I'm not impressed with America's anemic shift to renewable energy. First of all, the metric should be the percentage of electricity produced form renewable sources. US (Canada also for that matter) is pathetic in terms of this metric both in terms of present day and plans for the future.


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-08-10 12:27:06 PM  

Notabunny: fta Mitt Romney has suggested that wind and solar are "imaginary" sources of energy, but they can now power 15 million homes, and their industries employ more than 300,000 Americans. That's real.

Those aren't real 'Merican jobs. Those are wussy, green, liberal jobs. Not one of them involves monster trucks, bull riding, guns or binge drinking.


Romney probably doesn't know about any of the things you just mentioned.... well atleast until he retroactively did them...
 
2012-08-10 12:27:24 PM  

PickledBoodah: Infernalist: Seems kinda silly for Romney to come out against it, though. I mean, come on, clean energy is a no-brainer. You support it. How can you not? It's like coming out against clean water/air.

You do know that he's a republican, right?


If Obama proposed the "don't stick your cock in an electrical socket while wearing a copper condom and standing in four inches of water" act what do you think these traitorous farktards would do next.
 
2012-08-10 12:27:31 PM  

Emracool the Aeons Hip: Funny that


ftfm
 
2012-08-10 12:27:50 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: mrshowrules: I'm not impressed with America's anemic shift to renewable energy. First of all, the metric should be the percentage of electricity produced form renewable sources. US (Canada also for that matter) is pathetic in terms of this metric both in terms of present day and plans for the future.

Compared to which country?

Now compared to which country with anything even remotely resembling geographic size?

None of the current technologies can come close to the energy density of coal and gas. The more we do, the better we will do, but it is absurd to expect that solar and wind as they are now could come anywhere close to meeting our energy needs efficiently.


Compared to about a dozen European countries plus your geography is actually a huge advantage. Hydro/wind alone could generate 100% of your electricity requirements even taking into consideration transmission loss over distances.
 
2012-08-10 12:29:34 PM  

SquiggelyGrounders: Infernmeat0918: You have to convince a lot of rural Republicans it isn't a plot by Al Gore, but a good way to make them money or save them money.


Oh, rural Republicans are well aware it makes them money. Rural Republicans are renting out small portions of farmland and making money hand over fist on wind farms. Combined with the ethanol subsidies, that's kept rural America alive.

You want to make sure Ohio, Wisconsin, and Iowa go blue this year? Convince them that Romney will cut subsidies for wind power and ethanol. Heck, Obama would probably get Indiana and Missouri to boot.
 
2012-08-10 12:30:02 PM  

Tigger: If Obama proposed the "don't stick your cock in an electrical socket while wearing a copper condom and standing in four inches of water" act what do you think these traitorous farktards would do next.


Well I don't see whats so ba
 
2012-08-10 12:30:56 PM  

snowshovel: Noone seems to mention that Obama seems to enjoy killing migratory birds, at the expense of a few batteries being charged to power those stupid mercury-laden light bulbs (good thing I bought a couple of thousand incadescents at Walmart when I ahd a chance). At least Romney has a heart for the flora and fauna that keeps our nation in a balanced bio-diversity. And yet, the "un-fair and un-balanced media" doesn't seem to talk about that.


That bastard! But if you're concerned about the birds, maybe you should start a campaign to outlaw cats as well?

www.wingpowerenergy.com
 
2012-08-10 12:31:07 PM  
Let's not forget about end-use conservation, either.

It applies a multiplier to any benefit we get from low-carbon generation.

Every watt saved at the end use saves 1+ watts at generation, because of inefficiencies of generation and energy transport.
 
2012-08-10 12:31:24 PM  

Jubeebee: mrshowrules: I'm not impressed with America's anemic shift to renewable energy. First of all, the metric should be the percentage of electricity produced form renewable sources. US (Canada also for that matter) is pathetic in terms of this metric both in terms of present day and plans for the future.

The US generates around 4500 TwH of electricity every year. We've been building large scale solar and wind generation for about 10 or 15 years, and for half that time our government has been actively trying to prevent solar/wind expansion. Give it some time.


It's really not going to take much more time to reach a tipping point in price performance. Solar isn't a typical computing technolgy that follow Moore's Law, but it does follow "Demi" Moore's Law, and we're pretty much at the tipping point right now.

You don't have to convince people that evil socialistic mumbo jumbo like renewable energy is good for anything other than taking 40% off the electric bill for them to "believe" in it.
 
2012-08-10 12:32:25 PM  

snowshovel: Noone seems to mention that Obama seems to enjoy killing migratory birds, at the expense of a few batteries being charged to power those stupid mercury-laden light bulbs (good thing I bought a couple of thousand incadescents at Walmart when I ahd a chance). At least Romney has a heart for the flora and fauna that keeps our nation in a balanced bio-diversity. And yet, the "un-fair and un-balanced media" doesn't seem to talk about that.


0/10
 
2012-08-10 12:32:27 PM  

Cymbal: dr.zaeus: pants made out of guns: Notabunny: fta Mitt Romney has suggested that wind and solar are "imaginary" sources of energy, but they can now power 15 million homes, and their industries employ more than 300,000 Americans. That's real.

Those aren't real 'Merican jobs. Those are wussy, green, liberal jobs. Not one of them involves monster trucks, bull riding, guns or binge drinking.

Well, maybe a little binge drinking.

/When the going gets weird, etc.

I've got news for everyone. Having worked in electrical distribution (analyst/developer) for the past 10 years, I can promise you that these "green jobs" aren't going to be going to effete, liberal academics or enviro-conscious hippies.

Linemen will always be linemen and the same beer-swilling good ole boys will be maintaining the grid no matter what source we choose to energize the lines.

As long as they can walk through the door at Devry, I could care less. The world needs ditch-diggers too, who cares if they like Bob Marley or Nickleback?


Fine. I'm willing to take a chance on your wussy, green, liberal electricity. But I want to see some AFV-worth lift crashing, or poll toppling, or cable reel rolling now and then.
 
2012-08-10 12:33:03 PM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: SquiggelyGrounders: Infernmeat0918: You have to convince a lot of rural Republicans it isn't a plot by Al Gore, but a good way to make them money or save them money.


Oh, rural Republicans are well aware it makes them money. Rural Republicans are renting out small portions of farmland and making money hand over fist on wind farms. Combined with the ethanol subsidies, that's kept rural America alive.

You want to make sure Ohio, Wisconsin, and Iowa go blue this year? Convince them that Romney will cut subsidies for wind power and ethanol. Heck, Obama would probably get Indiana and Missouri to boot.


Wisconsin has basically stopped putting up wind turbines since some of those rural looney toons have decided that the turbines are causing them to not be able to sleep at night because of the light reflections and sound they make. Thanks Walker
 
2012-08-10 12:33:23 PM  

Tigger: copper condom


ok this steampunk business is getting out of hand
 
2012-08-10 12:34:10 PM  
For at least a few hours on April 15, Colorado's largest utility was producing 57% of the power on its grid with wind.
 
2012-08-10 12:34:15 PM  

the biggest redneck here: It's really not going to take much more time to reach a tipping point in price performance. Solar isn't a typical computing technolgy that follow Moore's Law, but it does follow "Demi" Moore's Law, and we're pretty much at the tipping point right now.

You don't have to convince people that evil socialistic mumbo jumbo like renewable energy is good for anything other than taking 40% off the electric bill for them to "believe" in it.


My father, a Republican, dropped tens of thousands on solar panels on his roof (he lives in the desert, so pretty much all he gets is direct sun all day). He hasn't paid an electric bill since he installed them and instead gets checks from the electric company.

While it will take something like 7-10 years to pay itself back, their lifetime is expected to exceed that.

Once it gets even more affordable? Yeah, I'd put solar panels on my house in a second.
 
2012-08-10 12:35:11 PM  

Ow! That was my feelings!: Colorado voters approved a 30% standard for renewables, Obama and the federal government had nothing to do with it.


From the article you linked: To help wind compete, the federal government has been providing a tax credit that amounts to roughly 30% of its costs.
 
2012-08-10 12:35:18 PM  
If Democrats are for it, Republicans are against it.

If it competes with the fossil fuel and nuclear industries, Republicans are against it.

If it sounds like anything other than, "America in 1950 was the very definition of perfection," Republicans are against it.

If it's anything other than tax-cuts-kill-brown-people-more-tax-cuts, Republicans are against it.

If we put Rmoney in office, expect to see renewable energy set back 20 years.
 
2012-08-10 12:36:51 PM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: SquiggelyGrounders: Infernmeat0918: You have to convince a lot of rural Republicans it isn't a plot by Al Gore, but a good way to make them money or save them money.


Oh, rural Republicans are well aware it makes them money. Rural Republicans are renting out small portions of farmland and making money hand over fist on wind farms. Combined with the ethanol subsidies, that's kept rural America alive.

You want to make sure Ohio, Wisconsin, and Iowa go blue this year? Convince them that Romney will cut subsidies for wind power and ethanol. Heck, Obama would probably get Indiana and Missouri to boot.


If rural Republicans cared more about money than Jesus hates gays and autonomous vaginas, I'd agree with you. But I just can't.
 
2012-08-10 12:37:36 PM  

Tigger:

If Obama proposed the "don't stick your cock in an electrical socket while wearing a copper condom and standing in four inches of water" act what do you think these traitorous farktards would do next.


Like this - the ultimate codpiece
 
2012-08-10 12:39:04 PM  
For Immediate Release August 07, 2012

WASHINGTON, DC - Today, as a part of his We Can't Wait initiative, President Obama announced that seven nationally and regionally significant solar and wind energy projects will be expedited, including projects in Arizona, California, Nevada, and Wyoming. Together, these job-creating infrastructure projects would produce nearly 5,000 megawatts (MW) of clean energy - enough to power approximately 1.5 million homes, and support the President's all-of-the-above strategy to expand American made energy.

Thanks to a coordinated and focused review process, in the past three years, the Department of the Interior has approved more utility-scale renewable energy projects on public lands than in the past two decades combined - a total of 31 new projects. Link

Killing it.
 
2012-08-10 12:40:36 PM  

Infernalist: I'm a bit impressed with those numbers. That, combined with the new focus on being a net exporter of refined petro products, should give the US a bit more economic leverage over the ME oil-producing nations.

Seems kinda silly for Romney to come out against it, though. I mean, come on, clean energy is a no-brainer. You support it. How can you not? It's like coming out against clean water/air.


Yeah this is one of many reasons I liked McCain back in 2008, and why I can't possibly support Romney this year. McCain believed in climate change and green energy, and the growing green manufacturing sector. Romney is content to rest on our carbon laurels and to ignore all the science which shows climate change is real and solar power is far from imaginary.

"You can't put a wind turbine on your car" is one of the most ignorant statements of the campaign, and I'm surprised Romney doesn't get hit harder for his anti-science stance on green energy.
 
2012-08-10 12:41:17 PM  

EighthDay: the biggest redneck here: It's really not going to take much more time to reach a tipping point in price performance. Solar isn't a typical computing technolgy that follow Moore's Law, but it does follow "Demi" Moore's Law, and we're pretty much at the tipping point right now.

You don't have to convince people that evil socialistic mumbo jumbo like renewable energy is good for anything other than taking 40% off the electric bill for them to "believe" in it.

My father, a Republican, dropped tens of thousands on solar panels on his roof (he lives in the desert, so pretty much all he gets is direct sun all day). He hasn't paid an electric bill since he installed them and instead gets checks from the electric company.

While it will take something like 7-10 years to pay itself back, their lifetime is expected to exceed that.

Once it gets even more affordable? Yeah, I'd put solar panels on my house in a second.


I live in an area that has occasional ice storms and hail. My neighbor installed $25K worth of panels that were damaged by the storms. His insurance covered the materials, but he had to pay for the labor out of pocket. That was more than half the cost of the repairs. We need some changes in how insurance covers it in areas that have weather other than sunshine.
 
2012-08-10 12:41:51 PM  
FTA:

Mitt Romney has suggested that wind and solar are "imaginary" sources of energy...

Please, for the love of God, tell me that he didn't actually say this!!
 
2012-08-10 12:42:39 PM  
This makes Solyndra OK.
 
2012-08-10 12:42:55 PM  

Krieghund: Ow! That was my feelings!: Colorado voters approved a 30% standard for renewables, Obama and the federal government had nothing to do with it.

From the article you linked: To help wind compete, the federal government has been providing a tax credit that amounts to roughly 30% of its costs.


Yeah, I didn't state my point very well. I was taking issue with the "nuthin' happened before Obama" slant to TFA. The feds obviously have been offering up subsidies, but CO voters demanding a 30% standard predated Obama and is the major driver of renewables in Colorado.
 
2012-08-10 12:44:33 PM  

beta_plus: This makes Solyndra OK.


That poor chicken must be down to a couple ruffled feathers and one talon...
 
2012-08-10 12:45:08 PM  

Notabunny: Cymbal: dr.zaeus: pants made out of guns: Notabunny: fta Mitt Romney has suggested that wind and solar are "imaginary" sources of energy, but they can now power 15 million homes, and their industries employ more than 300,000 Americans. That's real.

Those aren't real 'Merican jobs. Those are wussy, green, liberal jobs. Not one of them involves monster trucks, bull riding, guns or binge drinking.

Well, maybe a little binge drinking.

/When the going gets weird, etc.

I've got news for everyone. Having worked in electrical distribution (analyst/developer) for the past 10 years, I can promise you that these "green jobs" aren't going to be going to effete, liberal academics or enviro-conscious hippies.

Linemen will always be linemen and the same beer-swilling good ole boys will be maintaining the grid no matter what source we choose to energize the lines.

As long as they can walk through the door at Devry, I could care less. The world needs ditch-diggers too, who cares if they like Bob Marley or Nickleback?

Fine. I'm willing to take a chance on your wussy, green, liberal electricity. But I want to see some AFV-worth lift crashing, or poll toppling, or cable reel rolling now and then.


Just bring back that Mythbusters ripoff marketed to your average blue collar truck-nuts enthusiast. What was it called, Tits and Ass and Explosions?
 
2012-08-10 12:45:27 PM  

mrshowrules: Compared to about a dozen European countries plus your geography is actually a huge advantage. Hydro/wind alone could generate 100% of your electricity requirements even taking into consideration transmission loss over distances.


Compared to which ones? Numbers please.

And geographic disbursement *IS* a significan challenge. For instance, you can't build enough windfarms anywhere remotely close to say New York City to provide the needed power, and the loss for long-distance transmission offsets the efficiency. Texas has done more than anyone else in Wind power, and that's good. But there is no way that wind power as it stands now can supplant fossil fuels for efficient delivery of electicity.

It's easy to just say vaguely "It's not enough, you aren't trying hard enough." But how about some specifics?

Don't misunderstand. I favor renewable energy, and I am happy to see it finally starting to take root, but there are simply very real and very practical limitations that prevent it being a viable alternative today or tomorrow.
 
2012-08-10 12:46:05 PM  

SquiggelyGrounders: I wonder if Romney has considered that the rest of the industrialized world and trivial industrializing country's like China have been putting a lot of investment into renewable. The amount of energy and economy produced around the world is not imaginary. The US stands to loose the tech and economic race for these.


If we want to emulate the Chinese we let them invest billions into developing the technology, then we steal it.
 
2012-08-10 12:49:08 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: For instance, you can't build enough windfarms anywhere remotely close to say New York City


Seems NYC would be a better solar city with all the space on the roofs but they do have the option of building turbines on the water, like they tried to do on the cape in MA.
 
2012-08-10 12:49:24 PM  

beta_plus: This makes Solyndra OK.


BAWWWWWWWWWWWWW
 
2012-08-10 12:50:15 PM  

beta_plus: This makes Solyndra OK.


Why do you hate business, you goddamn Communist?
 
2012-08-10 12:50:45 PM  
I'm waiting for Romney to endorse the proposed coal export terminals that will more than likely soon dot the Oregon and Washington coasts. It'd really round out his "I want to make billions with 18th century technology" platform.

One of the proposed train routes passes less than a half mile from my home and passes through the nearby wetlands. It cuts off two of my routes to work, to groceries, and a large section of town.

He probably won't endorse it though, because Berkshire Hathaway is one of the companies that would reap billions by shipping coal to China and India.
 
2012-08-10 12:51:55 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: For Immediate Release August 07, 2012

WASHINGTON, DC - Today, as a part of his We Can't Wait initiative, President Obama announced that seven nationally and regionally significant solar and wind energy projects will be expedited, including projects in Arizona, California, Nevada, and Wyoming. Together, these job-creating infrastructure projects would produce nearly 5,000 megawatts (MW) of clean energy - enough to power approximately 1.5 million homes, and support the President's all-of-the-above strategy to expand American made energy.

Thanks to a coordinated and focused review process, in the past three years, the Department of the Interior has approved more utility-scale renewable energy projects on public lands than in the past two decades combined - a total of 31 new projects. Link


Why isn't Texas on that list?
 
2012-08-10 12:53:15 PM  

Cymbal: The Jami Turman Fan Club: SquiggelyGrounders: Infernmeat0918: You have to convince a lot of rural Republicans it isn't a plot by Al Gore, but a good way to make them money or save them money.


Oh, rural Republicans are well aware it makes them money. Rural Republicans are renting out small portions of farmland and making money hand over fist on wind farms. Combined with the ethanol subsidies, that's kept rural America alive.

You want to make sure Ohio, Wisconsin, and Iowa go blue this year? Convince them that Romney will cut subsidies for wind power and ethanol. Heck, Obama would probably get Indiana and Missouri to boot.

If rural Republicans cared more about money than Jesus hates gays and autonomous vaginas, I'd agree with you. But I just can't.


Trust me, if the choice is gay marriage or losing their farm, they suddenly stop caring about teh gays. Not all of them, mind you, but enough to turn those states blue.
 
2012-08-10 12:53:25 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Dusk-You-n-Me: For Immediate Release August 07, 2012

WASHINGTON, DC - Today, as a part of his We Can't Wait initiative, President Obama announced that seven nationally and regionally significant solar and wind energy projects will be expedited, including projects in Arizona, California, Nevada, and Wyoming. Together, these job-creating infrastructure projects would produce nearly 5,000 megawatts (MW) of clean energy - enough to power approximately 1.5 million homes, and support the President's all-of-the-above strategy to expand American made energy.

Thanks to a coordinated and focused review process, in the past three years, the Department of the Interior has approved more utility-scale renewable energy projects on public lands than in the past two decades combined - a total of 31 new projects. Link

Why isn't Texas on that list?


Perry said he didn't want any more Federal help, remember?
 
2012-08-10 12:53:43 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Why isn't Texas on that list?


Because none of the seven expedited projects are in Texas.
 
2012-08-10 12:53:58 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: And geographic disbursement *IS* a significan challenge. For instance, you can't build enough windfarms anywhere remotely close to say New York City to provide the needed power, and the loss for long-distance transmission offsets the efficiency.


You might pay attention to the states in the upper right of the map.
 
2012-08-10 12:55:15 PM  

Headso: Seems NYC would be a better solar city with all the space on the roofs but they do have the option of building turbines on the water, like they tried to do on the cape in MA


As I understanbd it, There's not enough square footage, and only the highest buildings would maintain regular sunlight, with th shorter ones in shadow often. The more important problem is that Solar is just not efficient enough to provide the huge amount of power needed. They would have to build a floating island of solar collectors the size of rhode island or soemthing.

However, there are some promising advances with solar aggregators and focusing that are reducing the square footage requirements.
 
2012-08-10 12:55:35 PM  
Sell Alaska to the Chinese for $10 trillion.
 
2012-08-10 12:55:45 PM  

Cletus C.: SquiggelyGrounders: I wonder if Romney has considered that the rest of the industrialized world and trivial industrializing country's like China have been putting a lot of investment into renewable. The amount of energy and economy produced around the world is not imaginary. The US stands to loose the tech and economic race for these.

If we want to emulate the Chinese we let them invest billions into developing the technology, then we steal it.


and make it with what factories? our great businesses moved them all to china...
 
2012-08-10 12:57:11 PM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: Cymbal: The Jami Turman Fan Club: SquiggelyGrounders: Infernmeat0918: You have to convince a lot of rural Republicans it isn't a plot by Al Gore, but a good way to make them money or save them money.


Oh, rural Republicans are well aware it makes them money. Rural Republicans are renting out small portions of farmland and making money hand over fist on wind farms. Combined with the ethanol subsidies, that's kept rural America alive.

You want to make sure Ohio, Wisconsin, and Iowa go blue this year? Convince them that Romney will cut subsidies for wind power and ethanol. Heck, Obama would probably get Indiana and Missouri to boot.

If rural Republicans cared more about money than Jesus hates gays and autonomous vaginas, I'd agree with you. But I just can't.

Trust me, if the choice is gay marriage or losing their farm, they suddenly stop caring about teh gays. Not all of them, mind you, but enough to turn those states blue.


But what about the autonomous vaginas?
 
2012-08-10 12:57:52 PM  

Skleenar: BojanglesPaladin: And geographic disbursement *IS* a significan challenge. For instance, you can't build enough windfarms anywhere remotely close to say New York City to provide the needed power, and the loss for long-distance transmission offsets the efficiency.

You might pay attention to the states in the upper right of the map.


I'm surprised Nevada has none, given how much flat, open space they have. Is it due to solar availability?
 
2012-08-10 12:58:06 PM  
pkellmey:

I live in an area that has occasional ice storms and hail. My neighbor installed $25K worth of panels that were damaged by the storms. His insurance covered the materials, but he had to pay for the labor out of pocket. That was more than half the cost of the repairs. We need some changes in how insurance covers it in areas that have weather other than sunshine.

It's not difficult to get riders added to your homeowner's insurance for specific high-value items. I've had a $15,000 rider on my computers for years, and it only costs me a few bucks a month.

Your neighbor may want to have a little chat with his insurance company.
 
2012-08-10 12:58:21 PM  

MartinD-35: Sell Alaska to the Chinese for $10 trillion.


Then unleash Liberty Prime to take it back from those red devils.
 
2012-08-10 12:58:39 PM  

MartinD-35: Sell Alaska to the Chinese for $10 trillion.


Make it 9, and they have to take the Palins.
 
2012-08-10 12:59:39 PM  

EighthDay: Skleenar: BojanglesPaladin: And geographic disbursement *IS* a significan challenge. For instance, you can't build enough windfarms anywhere remotely close to say New York City to provide the needed power, and the loss for long-distance transmission offsets the efficiency.

You might pay attention to the states in the upper right of the map.

I'm surprised Nevada has none, given how much flat, open space they have. Is it due to solar availability?


Nevada does not have much in the way of potential windpower and also you have a problem with installing and maintaining transmission lines so far away from any sort of populace.
 
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