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(Investors Business Daily)   Environmentalists love solar and wind. So why do they keep suing to block solar plants and wind farms?   (news.investors.com ) divider line
    More: Ironic, solar energies, wind farms, access roads, oil refineries, energy policy, environmentalists, coal plants  
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1634 clicks; posted to Business » on 10 Aug 2012 at 12:20 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



42 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2012-08-10 12:23:45 PM  
Hypocrisy?
 
2012-08-10 12:23:53 PM  
Won't someone think of the ants?
 
2012-08-10 12:24:26 PM  
NIMBY
 
2012-08-10 12:25:58 PM  

BAMFinator: NIMBY


Came to say this. ^
 
2012-08-10 12:27:43 PM  

BAMFinator: NIMBY

 
2012-08-10 12:37:22 PM  

Fish in a Barrel: BAMFinator: NIMBY


and birds.
 
2012-08-10 12:41:00 PM  
It's not NIMBY, its banana

Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything.
 
2012-08-10 12:43:06 PM  
about Half are NIMBY situations with front groups using a green name, and about half or environmentalists from the luddite side of the equation. aka use less power instead of building more power plants.
 
2012-08-10 12:45:37 PM  
Environmentalists are a single collective group, with absolutely no variance in opinion.

encrypted-tbn1.google.com
 
2012-08-10 12:55:44 PM  

Hyjamon: Fish in a Barrel: BAMFinator: NIMBY

and birds.


And, according to tfa, bats. Here I was thinking it was pretty much impossible to get a bat to fly into anything.
 
2012-08-10 12:56:30 PM  
Oh whoops. Irritable Bowels Daily has an opinion on environmentalists.
 
2012-08-10 01:01:27 PM  

cnhn: about Half are NIMBY situations with front groups using a green name, and about half or environmentalists from the luddite side of the equation. aka use less power instead of building more power plants.


And don't forget the insane environmentalist that won't be happy until horses are the only means of transportation again. Just like the right has its far end of the spectrum nuts, environmentalist have the same. The difference is environmentalist generally ignore its far end of the spectrum nutcases, the right panders to them.
 
2012-08-10 01:03:04 PM  
"Irritable Bowels Daily"

I thought it was International Bronies Day.
 
2012-08-10 01:08:07 PM  

impaler: Environmentalists are a single collective group, with absolutely no variance in opinion.


And many of them are not 'green' at all. They just use the movement for their own personal agenda.

On the bright side, you are starting to see some of the 'real' groups out there put these NIMBYs in thier place. It is very refreshing to see, though it is still pretty rare.

On a humorous side note, here in Idaho we get about 90% of our power from good ol, clean hydropower. Yes, they kill salmon, but that is another story. A pretty fair number of developers started to develop wind farms around the Snake River Plain due to the subsidies and mandates that the utility companies would need to purchase this wind power (even though the percentage of renewable power is off the charts compared to other areas). Anyhoo, now Idaho Power and most of thier customer base is biatching since they need to increase power rates due to the mandate of wind power and the fact that this power is much more expensive. On the other hand, you have the wind power folks complaining that they are the first ones to be 'turned off' during times of excess of power generation. Turns out, they don't get thier subsides if the blades are not turning.

Kind of a Cluster
 
2012-08-10 01:10:59 PM  

wildcardjack: It's not NIMBY, its banana

Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything.


Except then you're in Wilderness territory, and you can't touch that. I do agree with preserving wilderness though. Build wind farms on top of regular farms, the two can coexist. Wisconsin and Minnesota have tons of this type of wind farming.
 
2012-08-10 01:11:30 PM  

impaler: Environmentalists are a single collective group, with absolutely no variance in opinion.

[encrypted-tbn1.google.com image 260x171]


And they're a subset of Liberals, who are also a single collective group, with absolutely no variance in opinion.
 
2012-08-10 01:12:20 PM  

BAMFinator: NIMBY


More like BANANA (Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anybody). And, in this case, "anybody" includes pretty much every animal and plant on the planet.
 
2012-08-10 01:13:43 PM  

cnhn: about Half are NIMBY situations with front groups using a green name, and about half or environmentalists from the luddite side of the equation. aka use less power instead of building more power plants.


I never really thought about people going to luddite route as a form of environmentalism...though it does make sense.

I think there is a group out there with the goal of not building any more power plants while owning a bit of every remaining power plant out there, leading to a point in time where one group can control who gets electricity, but also when and for how much.
 
2012-08-10 01:14:22 PM  

ongbok: The difference is environmentalist generally ignore its far end of the spectrum nutcases,


Not always true. You have folks like Carolyn Maloney actaully in Congress. Some of her ideas (NREPA, for example) are as nutty as they come.
 
2012-08-10 01:33:45 PM  
There are subtle differences between sane and insane environmentalists.

Most of the sane environmentalists I meet are also conservationists. The crazy ones are preservationist as well as NIMBYs and BANANAS, who think we can keep the environment static if we just leave everything everywhere alone.
 
2012-08-10 01:34:11 PM  

DerAppie: And, according to tfa, bats. Here I was thinking it was pretty much impossible to get a bat to fly into anything.


they do not in fact get hit by the blades. but the vortex created by the moving blades causes internal damage to the bats killing them anyways.
 
2012-08-10 01:35:52 PM  
Summary:
1. I have created a homogenous group of people out of millions of individual people with wildly different goals, stakes, and reasoning.
2. I have assigned them all a singular motivation.
3. I have decided that they don't conform to the motivation that I have ascribed to them so I call them hypocrites.
4. I get published in Investor's Business Daily.
 
2012-08-10 01:43:38 PM  
give you a hint....they are controlled by oil, gas and coal at the top lvls.
 
2012-08-10 01:57:45 PM  

DerAppie: Hyjamon: Fish in a Barrel: BAMFinator: NIMBY

and birds.

And, according to tfa, bats. Here I was thinking it was pretty much impossible to get a bat to fly into anything.


No hit is required. Bats are amazingly fragile and just the sound waves generated by a rotating boom can collapse their lungs. Plus, the bats sonar is forward-looking, not to the sides. They don't hear it coming.
 
2012-08-10 02:10:25 PM  
So why do they keep suing to block solar plants and wind farms?

Because, like 'humanity,' they love them in the abstract, not the concrete.

i50.tinypic.com
 
2012-08-10 02:15:28 PM  
Out here in my neck of the woods (desert) the feds (with prodding from various enviro groups) shut down thousands of acres of desert to essentially everybody but those who want to walk across it....no vehicles, no horses, etc...until somebody decided that it was a good place to build 450' tall windmills (from 400-1200 of them, depending on the outcome of various lawsuits)...now, that same acreage that was too fragile for off-road use is "perfect" for the construction of these towers....and the same enviro groups are perfectly okay with it....in fact, the Sierra Club national office sent the local branch a pissy letter telling them to stop making noise about the project...

/the indians, on the other hand are not okay with the deal and are raising holy hell, so we'll see how that plays out
 
2012-08-10 02:49:55 PM  
Don't build that power station near me, I want it hundreds of miles away!
Don't build that transmission line for that power plant hundreds of miles away near me. Put it in some useless stretch of someone else's land!
No I won't grant you an easement to run power lines through my land, go find someone else's property to put that stuff on!
Don't you dare try to trim my trees around those power lines!
(once per generation storm comes through)
Why is my power always out for so long?! You should have done a better job trimming trees BEFORE the storm!
(3 months later)
Don't you dare try to trim my trees around those power lines!
 
2012-08-10 02:51:27 PM  
Forgot:
You need to put the lines underground!
Well, no, not under MY ground, but everywhere else.
 
2012-08-10 03:17:32 PM  
Big oil/coal fund tons of groups that use any tactics available to slow/derail renewables.
 
2012-08-10 03:18:09 PM  
Do you know who was behind the anti-foam packaging for fast food movement all those years ago? The paper industry, which then picked up all those orders for cups and wrappers. And those wrappers and cups turned out to be worse for the environment.

When the EV-1 and EV-2 proved so popular in California, the oil industry started grassroots "environmental" groups to lobby against the new zero-emissions standard.

I figure those fighting against green energy are just astroturfing for King Coal and other established interests. Green energy requires a much more distributed network, which threatens the monopoly business model. The energy sector is seeing their entire way of life crumbling around them and they have been resorting to these tactics since they realized it.

/Duke funds "enviromental" groups in Indiana
//they also got the legislature to legally declare coal renewable and green so they could pocket the "green energy" premium fees rather than buy wind/solar as their marketing implies
 
2012-08-10 03:30:54 PM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Big oil/coal fund tons of groups that use any tactics available to slow/derail renewables.


Yeah, like Dianne Feinstien and Ted Kennedy!. Oh wait....
 
2012-08-10 03:33:40 PM  

BolloxReader: Do you know who was behind the anti-foam packaging for fast food movement all those years ago? The paper industry, which then picked up all those orders for cups and wrappers. And those wrappers and cups turned out to be worse for the environment.

When the EV-1 and EV-2 proved so popular in California, the oil industry started grassroots "environmental" groups to lobby against the new zero-emissions standard.

I figure those fighting against green energy are just astroturfing for King Coal and other established interests. Green energy requires a much more distributed network, which threatens the monopoly business model. The energy sector is seeing their entire way of life crumbling around them and they have been resorting to these tactics since they realized it.

/Duke funds "enviromental" groups in Indiana
//they also got the legislature to legally declare coal renewable and green so they could pocket the "green energy" premium fees rather than buy wind/solar as their marketing implies


Did that actually get passed? I checked the Indiana Code website and it didn't look like it. Link
 
2012-08-10 03:37:51 PM  
Verdant Power wanted to put turbines in the East river (NYC) to capture tidal power.

the company eventually did so but the company had to fend off a complaints from environmentalists worried about potential fish casualties.

over by the staten island landfill, many proposals to build a methane-capturing power plant have been defeated over the years by local residents. they didn't want a power plant in their backyards, but apparently having the world's largest landfill in their backyards was perfectly ok (the landfill was there before most of the residents, they CHOSE to move into condos next to the landfill).

wind farms were proposed in 2004, and just now the locals are coming around to the idea.
 
2012-08-10 03:56:21 PM  
Damn right, screw those environmentalists. I say we dump the rivers with toxic coal ash, dump out toxic waste in the water table and pump out more pollution than ever. We can get back to the good old days of the 19th century when you could see air, like God intended.
 
2012-08-10 03:59:31 PM  
Environmentalist is a really broad category... the plant and animal people aren't always in line with the clean energy folks... see dams and solar farms... dams are great for renewable power but they block all the salmons...
 
2012-08-10 09:38:04 PM  

ongbok:
And don't forget the insane environmentalist that won't be happy until horses are the only means of transportation again.


Because the cubic yards of horseshiat that needed to be shoveled from city streets was environmentally friendly. Rainbows and nega-CO2.
 
2012-08-10 10:10:16 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Summary:
1. I have created a homogenous group of people out of millions of individual people with wildly different goals, stakes, and reasoning.
2. I have assigned them all a singular motivation.
3. I have decided that they don't conform to the motivation that I have ascribed to them so I call them hypocrites.
4. I get published in Investor's Business Daily.


Isn't this exactly what we do in the world today? Steps 1 - 3 apply to

Environmentalists
Republicans
Democrats
Christians
Muslims
Liberals
Conservatives
blah blah blah
 
2012-08-11 03:30:45 AM  

natazha: DerAppie: Hyjamon: Fish in a Barrel: BAMFinator: NIMBY

and birds.

And, according to tfa, bats. Here I was thinking it was pretty much impossible to get a bat to fly into anything.

No hit is required. Bats are amazingly fragile and just the sound waves generated by a rotating boom can collapse their lungs. Plus, the bats sonar is forward-looking, not to the sides. They don't hear it coming.


Yeah, sounds legit
 
2012-08-11 02:17:32 PM  

HeadLever: On the bright side, you are starting to see some of the 'real' groups out there put these NIMBYs in thier place. It is very refreshing to see, though it is still pretty rare.


citation
 
2012-08-12 07:11:23 AM  

cnhn: about Half are NIMBY situations with front groups using a green name, and about half or environmentalists from the luddite side of the equation. aka use less power instead of building more power plants.


Not dissing you or anything, but on the 'use less power' luddites -

Americans are using less power today than we did a decade ago, including electrical power. Problem is, there are more Americans today, so power usage is still up. Electricity = power, but power doesn't necessarily equal electricity.

A couple of the biggest ways to potentially save power will actually INCREASE our demand for electricity. Specifically Electric cars and heat pumps that replace a NG, propane, or fuel oil heating system. When I calced 'average' driving patterns with average EV efficiency per mile against average household electricity use, I came up with a rough estimate of ~50% more electricity use converting to 100% electric from fossil fuel driving. Switching from locally burning something to heat your house to heat pump is much more variable(I can't calc it), but could be as low as 10% more, to as much as 200% more.

So we NEED more sources of electricity, and ideally we need to replace current generation with greener generation.

Too many luddites are assuming that nobody but them have switched over to energy efficient bulbs, replaced their appliances with energy efficient ones, replaced windows and sealed cracks. Many, many people have, because it saves them money. As such, I doubt the 'potential energy saving' studies that many quote are still accurate. You can't save significant energy in my house replacing light bulbs - I already have. You can't save power getting me a more efficient boiler - I already have a top of the line model. I already seal the house up, use energy star appliances, turn off lights when not in use. About the only way to save significant power for me would be to somehow make performance level computers use less power - and even then I'm buying the best power supplies.

Tainted1: Yeah, sounds legit


I remember the scientific paper. They actually did necropsies on a bunch of bat corpses found next to turbines and computer modeling. It's the pressure front caused by the moving turbine blade, it gives the bats something like a severe case of the bends.

limeyfellow: Damn right, screw those environmentalists. I say we dump the rivers with toxic coal ash, dump out toxic waste in the water table and pump out more pollution than ever. We can get back to the good old days of the 19th century when you could see air, like God intended.


We're fine with those types of environmentalists. The ones who object to the alaskan pipeline because it might disturb the moose are the ones we have issues with(in reality, the moose tend to use the pipeline for shelter). We especially object to the ones that object to clean power initiatives that their killing of results in the burning of more dirty coal, making the issue worse.
 
2012-08-12 10:45:42 PM  

Land Ark: Don't build that power station near me, I want it hundreds of miles away!
Don't build that transmission line for that power plant hundreds of miles away near me. Put it in some useless stretch of someone else's land!
No I won't grant you an easement to run power lines through my land, go find someone else's property to put that stuff on!
Don't you dare try to trim my trees around those power lines!
(once per generation storm comes through)
Why is my power always out for so long?! You should have done a better job trimming trees BEFORE the storm!
(3 months later)
Don't you dare try to trim my trees around those power lines!


Are you referencing the Nor'easter from October '11? Had to deal with it and all the whiny New England schmucks shortly after moving up here. They thought the world was going to end.
 
2012-08-13 04:25:55 PM  

relcec: HeadLever: On the bright side, you are starting to see some of the 'real' groups out there put these NIMBYs in thier place. It is very refreshing to see, though it is still pretty rare.

citation


The ICL is getting much more proactive on working with many it used to blanketly oppose. Here is one such circumstance. This approval has marginalized many of the vocal NIMBY groups that would typically be attaching themselves to these coattails and money.

Very refreshing to see
 
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