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(Smithsonian Magazine) Video In the 1930s, Confederate veterans were asked to step up to the mic to record, for the last time, the sound that turned union blood blue. Ladies and Gentlemen... This is what the Rebel Yell sounded like... *ahem*... WHEEEEEEEeeeee   (smithsonianmag.com) divider line 106
    More: Video, Ahem, Illinois General Assembly, recorded sound, War Between the States, non-fiction books, slave states, classic series, Fort Sumter  
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7566 clicks; posted to Video » on 10 Aug 2012 at 1:22 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-09 11:46:08 PM
Nice find, subby.
 
2012-08-09 11:51:31 PM
That was incredibly cool. Although I bet it sounded fiercer when they were young men and smoke and bullets were flying.
 
2012-08-10 12:00:17 AM
Thought it sounded like this.
 
2012-08-10 12:01:47 AM
I thought it sounded like More! More! More!

/no?
 
2012-08-10 12:08:31 AM
That explains the farking SEC.
 
2012-08-10 12:08:42 AM
I see the appropriate Billy Idol reference has been made; my work is done here.
 
2012-08-10 12:22:09 AM
So.... cheering, then? Generic wooo?
 
2012-08-10 12:24:02 AM
 
2012-08-10 12:31:11 AM

Quasar: Thought it sounded like this.


You're doing it wrongh,
 
2012-08-10 12:35:12 AM
 
2012-08-10 12:46:16 AM
I'll admit, I didn't know "Rebel Yell" actually referenced something historical. That said, it sounds like a bunch of 19th century white guys imitating a Native American war cry.

Given the absolute stupidity of Civil War fighting tactics, I have no doubt this might have proven an advantage in some skirmishes.
 
2012-08-10 01:00:58 AM

Lsherm: That said, it sounds like a bunch of 19th century white guys imitating a Native American war cry


Pretty much this. Kinda sad really considering the high regard with which tea baggers and rednecks hold the confederacy.
 
2012-08-10 01:06:02 AM

NowhereMon: Lsherm: That said, it sounds like a bunch of 19th century white guys imitating a Native American war cry

Pretty much this. Kinda sad really considering the high regard with which tea baggers and rednecks hold the confederacy.


I don't see how that historical fact would influence them one way or the other.
 
2012-08-10 01:11:58 AM

Lsherm: NowhereMon: Lsherm: That said, it sounds like a bunch of 19th century white guys imitating a Native American war cry

Pretty much this. Kinda sad really considering the high regard with which tea baggers and rednecks hold the confederacy.

I don't see how that historical fact would influence them one way or the other.


Certainly no other sort of fact seems to have any effect
 
2012-08-10 01:17:11 AM
It's nice they have it recorded, but I'm a little squicked by people that celebrate the Confederacy, whether in the 1930s or now.

/Southerner born and bred
//We were wrong, we lost, most of us got over it
 
2012-08-10 01:24:53 AM
Hey y'all! Watch this!
 
2012-08-10 01:33:29 AM
More, more, more!
 
2012-08-10 01:46:38 AM
Since nobody has appeared to make a Billy Idol reference, allow me.
 
2012-08-10 01:48:12 AM
GONADS AND STRIFE!
 
2012-08-10 01:49:15 AM
Like a thousand drunk hillbillies....oh wait...
 
2012-08-10 01:59:06 AM
My boss makes the exact same "rebel yell" whenever she finds a cockroach in her office.

/eeeeeeekkkkkk
 
TKM
2012-08-10 02:10:38 AM
Pussies, then?
 
2012-08-10 02:18:22 AM
I didn't think it was possible to have descended testicles and make a sound that high-pitched. You can put me in the unimpressed column, at least based on that recording.

A whole line of young soliders charging at me with firearms while making that sound might have a different effect.
 
2012-08-10 02:21:50 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I thought it sounded like More! More! More!


Actually...since I presume that song is describing intimate relations of some sort, her making that sound in my ear would be something of a moment-killer.

/not quite sure what I'd have to do to her to get that reaction.
//Lean on her hair, probably
///Or possibly the Spocker
////Slashies!
 
2012-08-10 02:38:57 AM
Damnit I thought this numberwas the better representation of the Rebels

/ Dancing with myself out of this thread
 
2012-08-10 02:46:05 AM
Sounds similar to when a pack of coyotes start yipping outside my house in the middle of night.
 
2012-08-10 03:06:57 AM
static.tvfanatic.com
 
2012-08-10 03:11:14 AM

Bondith: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I thought it sounded like More! More! More!

Actually...since I presume that song is describing intimate relations of some sort, her making that sound in my ear would be something of a moment-killer.

/not quite sure what I'd have to do to her to get that reaction.
//Lean on her hair, probably
///Or possibly the Spocker
////Slashies!


If she's coming at you from behind, wearing a strap-on, and making that sound, it might scare you.
 
2012-08-10 03:13:16 AM
Well that was not really intimidating but it sure makes me want to start shooting at them.
 
2012-08-10 03:17:14 AM
Horrible screeching sounds are a well-known aid to bravery.
www.army.mod.uk
 
2012-08-10 03:23:30 AM
www.freewebs.com
 
2012-08-10 03:26:47 AM

Therion: GONADS AND STRIFE


www.mockpaperscissors.com

When you're an old timey confederate soldier and you want to go Weeee, but you ain't got drugs yet, you hold on to your life
 
2012-08-10 03:39:18 AM
So that's what treasonous terrorist hatred of America attempting to overthrow the constitution sounds like. It's almost as good as the Al Qaeda yell.
 
2012-08-10 03:40:07 AM
No wonder they lost. I can't tell if it was for charging or retreating!
 
2012-08-10 03:50:09 AM
Cool ringtone bro.
 
2012-08-10 04:24:30 AM

NowhereMon: Lsherm: That said, it sounds like a bunch of 19th century white guys imitating a Native American war cry

Pretty much this. Kinda sad really considering the high regard with which tea baggers and rednecks hold the confederacy.


Not only that, but they were very gracious and not a bunch of butthurt losers.
 
2012-08-10 05:26:33 AM
Great find...especially for the history buffs.

Though a chorus of yelps by James Brown, Steven Tyler, and Diamond Dave would have been scarier. Keep that in mind when the Communist Overlords take over.
 
2012-08-10 05:28:44 AM
That poor old bastard at 3:01 to 3:15 (Forrest LaGarde? Forrest LeGrande?) did not to seem to be oriented to time and/or space. And I want an animated GIF of that dwarf at 3:38.
 
2012-08-10 05:37:49 AM
Sounds like Colonel Jones couldn't quite get it up anymore.

Great historical artifact, though.
 
2012-08-10 05:46:42 AM
Did the MC really say to 'Mr. Powell' "All right, go put your dress on" after he finished yelling?

Damn, those guys knew how to party!

And James Blunt, you're beautiful.
 
2012-08-10 05:49:21 AM
I, for one, thoroughly enjoy these old movie clips. Green light more!
 
2012-08-10 05:52:43 AM

unlikely: So.... cheering, then? Generic wooo?


^^This.

Like the drunk "wooo!" girls from How I Met Your Mother.

Not that they are regulars or that I watch the show. It was a running gag in an episode I saw wooo!
 
2012-08-10 05:55:39 AM

RatMaster999: [static.tvfanatic.com image 450x300]


Bloody hell. Didn't read the whole thread before I posted. So the wooo girls are regular guests?
 
2012-08-10 05:59:41 AM
www.profilebrand.com
 
2012-08-10 06:28:35 AM
ayup, that's the stuff alright. you can still hear it today amongst true southerners like the turtle man. another way you can tell he's authentic is he claims to have injun blood in him too lol.

That said, it sounds like a bunch of 19th century white guys imitating a Native American war cry.

there's a very good reason for that, and i'll give you one guess why that is.
 
2012-08-10 07:11:10 AM
I don't have my speakers turned up so I didn't hear it but I did notice Alfalfa standing between the two gentlemen right at the beginning of the clip.
 
2012-08-10 07:33:46 AM
www.cmt.com

And then they drove back to Hazzard County.
 
2012-08-10 07:47:14 AM

Therion: GONADS AND STRIFE!


First thing I thought of too...
 
2012-08-10 08:17:59 AM

NowhereMon: Lsherm: That said, it sounds like a bunch of 19th century white guys imitating a Native American war cry

Pretty much this. Kinda sad really considering the high regard with which tea baggers and rednecks hold the confederacy.


Whadya mean? White boys have a long history and illustrious history of imitating Native Americans when they want to cause a ruckus. Hell, that tradition goes back to at least the founding of the nation, if not earlier.
 
2012-08-10 08:31:16 AM

cretinbob: NowhereMon: Lsherm: That said, it sounds like a bunch of 19th century white guys imitating a Native American war cry

Pretty much this. Kinda sad really considering the high regard with which tea baggers and rednecks hold the confederacy.

Not only that, but they were very gracious and not a bunch of butthurt losers.


Anyone who'd seen any significant action in the civil war and lived is not going to be particularly nostalgic about it. Well, the sane ones, anyway.
 
2012-08-10 08:45:48 AM
czei:

Anyone who'd seen any significant action in the civil ANY war and lived is not going to be particularly nostalgic about it. Well, the sane ones, anyway.
 
2012-08-10 09:06:52 AM
Something similar has been yelled in battle since battles began. The illusions of the meanings or reasons for such "yells" you currently seem to find are your own illusions.
The rebel "yell", like every other similar war cry was meant to intimidate or strike fear into the opposition while bolstering resolve in comrades in arms.
 
2012-08-10 09:19:58 AM

edmo: czei:

Anyone who'd seen any significant action in the civil ANY war and lived is not going to be particularly nostalgic about it. Well, the sane ones, anyway.


Nonsense. It's a sacred bond among young men, killing other young men. You might almost call it poetic, if poetry wasn't the last refuge of the bearded, cricket-hating Sodomite.

/Standard.
 
2012-08-10 09:59:31 AM
www.pttogames.com
 
2012-08-10 10:03:28 AM
That was pretty cool, mainly to see the crowd's reaction to the guys. It seemed like the old dudes still had a sense of humor and the crowd people were very much like they are today. I haven't seen many videos with audio from that period, so it's interesting to see how little some things change.
 
2012-08-10 10:12:18 AM
Sounds like a noob prisoner losing his backdoor virginity for the first time.
 
2012-08-10 10:13:17 AM

Macinfarker: Sounds like a noob prisoner losing his backdoor virginity for the first time.


As opposed to losing it the second time, which I guess sounds more like a distant siren.

// coffee, I need it
 
2012-08-10 10:19:48 AM
It's interesting to me that none of those men sounded as distinctly "southern" as people in the south do today.
 
2012-08-10 10:32:24 AM
Air conditioning ruined the South.
 
2012-08-10 10:40:34 AM

treecologist: It's interesting to me that none of those men sounded as distinctly "southern" as people in the south do today.


I suspect that in those days Southern men were ashamed, and quite rightly so, of their Southern "heritage" and covered up by speaking in a more civilized Northern manner.
 
2012-08-10 10:40:47 AM

czei: cretinbob: NowhereMon: Lsherm: That said, it sounds like a bunch of 19th century white guys imitating a Native American war cry

Pretty much this. Kinda sad really considering the high regard with which tea baggers and rednecks hold the confederacy.

Not only that, but they were very gracious and not a bunch of butthurt losers.

Anyone who'd seen any significant action in the civil war and lived is not going to be particularly nostalgic about it. Well, the sane ones, anyway.


We are talking about southerners here....

Seriously, though: by the 1930s, the only Civil War veterans left would have been very young, and
thus they would be most likely to have rosy feelings about "The Lost Cause", since they probably
weren't really in the thick of things at the time.
 
2012-08-10 10:59:07 AM

furiousxgeorge: So that's what treasonous terrorist hatred of America attempting to overthrow the constitution sounds like. It's almost as good as the Al Qaeda yell.


Nowadays it just sounds like a Democrat talking.
 
2012-08-10 11:00:39 AM
Those who are making snarky unimpressed comments have a poor grasp of history. The civil war was fought flesh to flying lead, and these were the last battles that would be won through sheer valor and fearlessness. The tactics used might today seem suicidal, but they were appropriate and effective given the arms technology of their day.

Today, bayonet charges are things of the past. The bayonet lugs on modern rifles are there as a last resort only, with retreat often preferable (and rightly so) to charging. At Shiloh, Gettysburg, and Mannassas, these were orders of the day. Imagine being 16 years old, perceiving that your land and freedom were at stake, fixing your bayonet and knowing that you would fire at most ten bullets before engaging in direct hand to hand combat. That is, if you survived the charge. No armor, no cover, just a desperate prayer and courage over your heart.

These men fought for an unjust cause, but few saw it that way. Listening to these old men give their war cries, I could easily imagine myself more than a little unmanned at the sound, fury, and sight of a charging battle line.
 
2012-08-10 11:04:45 AM
bah... I always rip off all my clothes, paint myself blue and start cutting myself before charging into battle.
 
2012-08-10 11:59:57 AM
So it sounds like Tuscaloosa on a Saturday...
 
2012-08-10 12:05:21 PM
Chills. Seriously. It's incredible to realise that these men served in one of the most brutal wars in world history, certainly in our nation's history. The South was short on everything from the get go -- everything except heart and conviction. It's probably easy for people to laugh at these old guys in this clip, but they're actual veterans of an actual war -- one they lost. They deserve a lot of credit just for doing this, never mind for actually serving, no matter what anyone thinks of the CSA's larger policies and practices. All soldiers and especially all veterans deserve respect, no matter who they are.

This seems to come from a period when the nation didn't instantly, reflexively, and inextricably link the CSA Battle Flag* and CSA service to slavery and racism. Though inescapably linked, modern people forget that the War was over much more than slavery. As a Yankee with some Southern roots and kin, and the daughter of an historian, my own view of it is complex, to say the least. But I think it's important to remember that CSA soldiers were, first and foremost, soldiers in service and in war.

* What most people think of 'the Southern flag' was actually a battle flag, not the national CSA flag. I'm not sure what post-War states were thinking when they incorporated the Battle Flag into their state standards, but it seems unnecessarily inflammatory to me. Incorporating the National Flag would have been less so, and probably sustained to this day the latent subnationalism that's still there but rarely spoken of now.
 
2012-08-10 12:06:50 PM

NowhereMon: Lsherm: That said, it sounds like a bunch of 19th century white guys imitating a Native American war cry

Pretty much this. Kinda sad really considering the high regard with which tea baggers and rednecks hold the confederacy.


In all fairness, teabaggers don't know shiat about anything, even their own history. They don't even understand what the original Boston Tea Party was about.
 
2012-08-10 12:30:23 PM

Krieghund: It's nice they have it recorded, but I'm a little squicked by people that celebrate the Confederacy, whether in the 1930s or now.

/Southerner born and bred
//We were wrong, we lost, most of us got over it


I'm sorry you feel that way. And I'm especially sorry that us Yankees have put so much energy into trying (and apparently succeeding) to make you feel that way. I want to tell you that it was much more complicated than what they teach in school. In a way, that can't be helped, because it was extremely complicated even then, and almost impossible to understand from our modern vantage point.

In the most simplistic sense, it was indeed about slavery. But that's where the simplicity stops. We had slaves in the North, too, we just haven't been forced for a century and a half to suffer insults over it -- and Northern segregation, while not as overt as post-War Southern bigotry, was no less prejudiced. Overlooked now is that at the outset of the War, Lincoln didn't really care about freeing the slaves, and explicitly said so; the War wasn't about that for him. The Emancipation Proclamation was a late-term provision meant to bolster flagging Union commitment to the War. Had it not been for that, and the CSA loss at Gettysburg, the CSA might well have won independence.

More, the CSA itself recognised that slavery was, if not actually evil (though any decent person must now agree that it is), at least a failed economic strategy: in over a century, it had failed to bring the South up to Northern standards, and they finally realised that it never could or would. And they also knew that slavery would soon damage their few remaining options for international trade, as powerful Western nations had already banned it and were pondering sanctions against nations still doing it. The CSA did not outlaw slavery, but started the process, banning the slave trade. To be fair, this was made easier by necessary Northern links in the Triangle Trade that were now severed. And about that Triangle Trade: as a necessary link in it, our hands were not clean; we just liked to pretend they were. But we were knowingly complicit in evil, and as accessory no less guilty. Finally, plenty of Yankees didn't care about slavery or about Black justice; many still don't. We have our share of bigots to, and given the passage of time, and the fact that we haven't been forced to confront it the way you have, I suppose we may be uglier about it now than the South.

So please don't beat yourself up over it. We were *all* wrong, in our own ways, the War was a huge mistake, and the right thing to do is for all of us to take what lessons we can from it and move forward.

But I want to emphasise that despite modern conflations, the CSA was a proud nascent nation, with much to be proud of even now. Slavery was the trigger behind it all, but bear in mind that all the way back to Colonial days, the North and South acted like separate nations, and often regarded each other that way. Adams and Jefferson both predicted the War, more than half a century out; everyone knew it was coming, one way or another, and if it wasn't over slavery it would have been over something else. Bear in mind also the tremendous courage it took to decide to secede: on paper, the CSA wasn't merely smaller than the North, it was much weaker. It was an extremely dangerous gamble. And yes, they did lose; but just to imagine what it took to try is humbling.
 
2012-08-10 12:42:27 PM
images.electricmohawk.com

More, more, morrrrrreeeeee.
 
2012-08-10 12:46:10 PM

Krieghund: It's nice they have it recorded, but I'm a little squicked by people that celebrate the Confederacy, whether in the 1930s or now.

/Southerner born and bred
//We They were wrong, we they lost, most of us got over it were born over a hundred years later and had nothing from that era to "get over".


FTFM
 
2012-08-10 12:57:21 PM

sumida sublight: Sounds like Colonel Jones Angus couldn't quite get it up anymore.


What you did there, I fixed it for you.

www.tripleshotshirts.com
 
2012-08-10 12:58:39 PM
Huh? WTF happened to my strikethrough tags? I fail at html...
 
2012-08-10 01:11:24 PM
^^^^^Thank you, Sylvia_Bandersnatch, for the enlightening recap of the issues. There's always more nuance to every "why the war was fought" that we get in school, and I appreciate the time and trouble you took putting this together for us today. (Nice clean-and-clear writing, BTW!)

/totally sincere

/BTW, I have a faint notion the very last veteran of the War died about 1959...amirite? John B. Sailing or some such?
 
2012-08-10 01:44:28 PM

RatMaster999: [woo_girls.jpg]


I was thinking that same thing. What was once a fierce yell by attacking soldier is now what drunk girls yell when "their song" starts playing at the bar.
 
2012-08-10 02:11:23 PM

furiousxgeorge: So that's what treasonous terrorist hatred of America attempting to overthrow the constitution sounds like. It's almost as good as the Al Qaeda yell.


The CSA had no interest in overturning the USA Constitution, and certainly never entertained any notions of whupping the North. All they really wanted was to be left alone. We chalk all this up to slavery now, and that's not wrong, but it's a vast oversimplification of what really happened and why.

The CSA expressly respected the USA and the Constitution; they just didn't want any part of it anymore. You can make of that what you will, but it's invalid to say that they sought to overturn either.

You might be referring to the presumed invalidity of secession. Lincoln based most of his 'union' argument on this, but so far as I know, it's never actually been legally tested, and never been strictly validated. About the best you can do -- and I want to say that I subscribe to this legal theory myself -- is note that it's not expressly permitted under the Constitution. But legal scholars still wrestle with the question, and it's more of a political and historical truth than a confidently legal one. And it's worth pointing out that the idea of secession under the Constitution was not born in the South. It was born in the North: During the War of 1812, a number of New England states entertained the notion, quite publicly. For Southern states to do the same only a few decades later is therefore not as surprising and radical as many people seem to make it out to be. And they were not alone: Abolitionists such as Lloyd Garrison fervently argued for *Northern* secession, effectively exiling the South, creating a kind of CSA by default even if the South hadn't been thinking the same thing. Even today, these notions are still out there.
 
2012-08-10 02:11:58 PM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Krieghund: It's nice they have it recorded, but I'm a little squicked by people that celebrate the Confederacy, whether in the 1930s or now.

/Southerner born and bred
//We were wrong, we lost, most of us got over it

I'm sorry you feel that way. And I'm especially sorry that us Yankees have put so much energy into trying (and apparently succeeding) to make you feel that way. I want to tell you that it was much more complicated than what they teach in school. In a way, that can't be helped, because it was extremely complicated even then, and almost impossible to understand from our modern vantage point.

In the most simplistic sense, it was indeed about slavery. But that's where the simplicity stops. We had slaves in the North, too, we just haven't been forced for a century and a half to suffer insults over it -- and Northern segregation, while not as overt as post-War Southern bigotry, was no less prejudiced. Overlooked now is that at the outset of the War, Lincoln didn't really care about freeing the slaves, and explicitly said so; the War wasn't about that for him. The Emancipation Proclamation was a late-term provision meant to bolster flagging Union commitment to the War. Had it not been for that, and the CSA loss at Gettysburg, the CSA might well have won independence.

More, the CSA itself recognised that slavery was, if not actually evil (though any decent person must now agree that it is), at least a failed economic strategy: in over a century, it had failed to bring the South up to Northern standards, and they finally realised that it never could or would. And they also knew that slavery would soon damage their few remaining options for international trade, as powerful Western nations had already banned it and were pondering sanctions against nations still doing it. The CSA did not outlaw slavery, but started the process, banning the slave trade. To be fair, this was made easier by necessary Northern links in the Triangle Trade that were now severed. And a ...


"The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution." -Alexander Stephens
 
F42
2012-08-10 03:33:45 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCxWUKMJfEI&feature=related

Rick Flair
 
2012-08-10 03:38:16 PM

Joe The Plumber: That poor old bastard at 3:01 to 3:15 (Forrest LaGarde? Forrest LeGrande?) did not to seem to be oriented to time and/or space. And I want an animated GIF of that dwarf at 3:38.


i.imgur.com
 
2012-08-10 03:52:15 PM
Found an old book in my grandparents spare bedroom "The duPont Family in America" or something similar. It accounted that they originally made gunpowder and explosives for clearing the plains of stumps and so on in factories on the Brandywine River.

When the civil war came, they substantially backed the north, financing with loans the north's purchase of gunpowder. Without this support the north may have lost. In the first world war, again they supported with credit the purchase of their guncotton and progressed into other war industries doing the same... Which is why they were repaid with the german coal-tar patents obtained in war reparations. This launched their well known dyes and plastics petrochemical business.

In WWII they did the same again and built and operated the Hanford nuclear reservation facilities which made most of the plutonium (and associated nuclear waste) developing the US nuclear arsenal.

War is as much about buying the favour of the victor as it is about anything else.
 
2012-08-10 05:09:11 PM
That's a weird ass way to say "I SURRENDER!"
 
2012-08-10 05:24:57 PM
Go Packers! Link
 
2012-08-10 05:28:19 PM
As a history buff, I love this and ty subby.

I also find this clip oddly disturbing.
 
2012-08-10 05:53:00 PM
Most adorable bunch of racists I've heard this week.
 
2012-08-10 06:29:56 PM
squeal like a rebel yell

www.rumproast.com



/too soon?
 
2012-08-10 06:33:27 PM
I'm Howard Dean, And I approve of this message.
 
2012-08-10 06:42:07 PM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Krieghund: It's nice they have it recorded, but I'm a little squicked by people that celebrate the Confederacy, whether in the 1930s or now.

/Southerner born and bred
//We were wrong, we lost, most of us got over it

I'm sorry you feel that way. And I'm especially sorry that us Yankees have put so much energy into trying (and apparently succeeding) to make you feel that way. I want to tell you that it was much more complicated than what they teach in school. In a way, that can't be helped, because it was extremely complicated even then, and almost impossible to understand from our modern vantage point.

In the most simplistic sense, it was indeed about slavery. But that's where the simplicity stops. We had slaves in the North, too, we just haven't been forced for a century and a half to suffer insults over it -- and Northern segregation, while not as overt as post-War Southern bigotry, was no less prejudiced. Overlooked now is that at the outset of the War, Lincoln didn't really care about freeing the slaves, and explicitly said so; the War wasn't about that for him. The Emancipation Proclamation was a late-term provision meant to bolster flagging Union commitment to the War. Had it not been for that, and the CSA loss at Gettysburg, the CSA might well have won independence.

More, the CSA itself recognised that slavery was, if not actually evil (though any decent person must now agree that it is), at least a failed economic strategy: in over a century, it had failed to bring the South up to Northern standards, and they finally realised that it never could or would. And they also knew that slavery would soon damage their few remaining options for international trade, as powerful Western nations had already banned it and were pondering sanctions against nations still doing it. The CSA did not outlaw slavery, but started the process, banning the slave trade. To be fair, this was made easier by necessary Northern links in the Triangle Trade that were now severed. And a ...


Even beyond this, I would say that when men carry the weight of years that these did, any celebration they are a part of becomes more about survival and the tremendous persistence of life than any passing social episode. To me, their yells (at least the yells of those that weren't clearly in the throes of dementia) weren't saying "yeah, slavery was a good thing", they were saying "I'm still here Life, you bastard - what else do you got?"
 
2012-08-10 07:13:01 PM
That is awesome. Nice video subby.

My great great grandfather from Virginia was a doc for the confederate side. Yes, he inherited a slave from his grandfather when he was six years old. (The Toy with Richard Pryor comes to mind with that tidbit.) Not so proud of that, but from his side of the family, it so happens that Thomas Jefferson is my first cousin.

/csb
 
2012-08-10 07:13:08 PM

trippdogg: Even beyond this, I would say that when men carry the weight of years that these did, any celebration they are a part of becomes more about survival and the tremendous persistence of life than any passing social episode. To me, their yells (at least the yells of those that weren't clearly in the throes of dementia) weren't saying "yeah, slavery was a good thing", they were saying "I'm still here Life, you bastard - what else do you got?"


I'd be a lot more inclined to buy this rationale if a guy in the crowd didn't immediately shout, "Go get 'em boys" after they did it as a group.
 
2012-08-10 07:24:13 PM

kenny's mom: ^^^^^Thank you, Sylvia_Bandersnatch, for the enlightening recap of the issues. There's always more nuance to every "why the war was fought" that we get in school, and I appreciate the time and trouble you took putting this together for us today. (Nice clean-and-clear writing, BTW!)

/totally sincere

/BTW, I have a faint notion the very last veteran of the War died about 1959...amirite? John B. Sailing or some such?


From a cursory search (WP surf), Sailing was apparently not a CSA vet, though he claimed to be. He also apparently lied about his birthdate. He's not alone, though: WP lists five other 'debunked' claims of this sort. Others are given as 'possible,' 'probable,' 'unknown,' or 'no evidence.' The only 'verified' one is Pleasant Crump, born 1847, who died on the last day of 1951. The only 'probable' is William Jordan Bush, born 1845, who died November 1952. And the one 'possible' is William Townsend, born 1846, who died February 1953. I list them because their death dates are after Crump's, though not by much. Crump was 'officially' the last surviving CSA veteran. He was born and raised in Alabama, and served with the 10th Alabama Infantry. The 10th Regiment saw action in fifteen engagements, including Second Bull Run, Antietam, and Gettysburg.
 
2012-08-10 07:34:10 PM

Tony_Pepperoni: Joe The Plumber: That poor old bastard at 3:01 to 3:15 (Forrest LaGarde? Forrest LeGrande?) did not to seem to be oriented to time and/or space. And I want an animated GIF of that dwarf at 3:38.

[i.imgur.com image 174x169]


You are one magnificent bastard. Thank you.
 
2012-08-10 08:09:21 PM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: long post deleted to save space...


I realize the brevity of my post didn't convey that I understand the complexity of the issues surrounding the Civil War, but I assure you that high school history classes in the South address the scope of the conflicts between the agrarian South and the industrial North. Often this is done in part to assure students that their ancestors were not, in fact, bad people. And I agree, you have to judge people in the context in which they lived.

But should we celebrate the Confederacy? Not while a significant portion of our population sees that as a celebration of oppressing their people.

I also don't understand where you got the impression I'm beating myself up over things that happened almost 150 years ago. That was exactly my point: I've moved on, and to me, at least, it's more important to respect my live neighbors than my dead ancestors.

Until my dead ancestors start feeding my cat when I'm on vacation, that is.
 
2012-08-10 09:41:11 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Lsherm: NowhereMon: Lsherm: That said, it sounds like a bunch of 19th century white guys imitating a Native American war cry

Pretty much this. Kinda sad really considering the high regard with which tea baggers and rednecks hold the confederacy.

I don't see how that historical fact would influence them one way or the other.

Certainly no other sort of fact seems to have any effect


BOOM, Headshot!
 
2012-08-10 10:07:22 PM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: It's probably easy for people to laugh at these old guys in this clip, but they're actual veterans of an actual war -- one they lost.


Big deal. If I want to see some old guys who were on the losing side of a war, all I have to do is drive by the highway exit ramps where the homeless Vietnam vets hang out.
 
2012-08-10 11:21:23 PM
i.imgur.com

Damn that's creepy, I expect him next to come gliding into the room wrapped in chains with a rag wrapped around his head.
/hope his name isn't Jacob
 
2012-08-11 12:12:31 AM

duenor: Those who are making snarky unimpressed comments have a poor grasp of history. The civil war was fought flesh to flying lead, and these were the last battles that would be won through sheer valor and fearlessness. The tactics used might today seem suicidal, but they were appropriate and effective given the arms technology of their day.

Today, bayonet charges are things of the past. The bayonet lugs on modern rifles are there as a last resort only, with retreat often preferable (and rightly so) to charging. At Shiloh, Gettysburg, and Mannassas, these were orders of the day. Imagine being 16 years old, perceiving that your land and freedom were at stake, fixing your bayonet and knowing that you would fire at most ten bullets before engaging in direct hand to hand combat. That is, if you survived the charge. No armor, no cover, just a desperate prayer and courage over your heart.

These men fought for an unjust cause, but few saw it that way. Listening to these old men give their war cries, I could easily imagine myself more than a little unmanned at the sound, fury, and sight of a charging battle line.


Ish. They're certainly not a primary tactic, but it's not like nobody's doing them. The last major bayonet charge I can think of was 2004.
 
2012-08-11 01:12:34 AM

Marcus Aurelius: Yeahhhhhhhh.


I love the hell out of that movie. George Clooney did such a good job of lip syncing, I thought he was actually singing the song.
 
2012-08-11 02:46:48 AM
www.fmueller.com
 
2012-08-11 07:00:06 AM

Bernoo: Not so proud of that, but from his side of the family, it so happens that Thomas Jefferson is my first cousin.


You should be very proud that you are so goddamn old that you have the same grandparents as Jefferson.
 
2012-08-11 08:50:15 AM
I don't know about you guys, but i found the view of those old soldiers hobbling along and doing a yell that sadly speaks of defeat kind of disheartening. I just felt pity and sadness.
 
2012-08-11 10:35:06 AM
Not Tarzan-y enough to be legitimate. Now, that's a rebel yell.

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-08-11 01:50:31 PM

0Icky0: Bernoo: Not so proud of that, but from his side of the family, it so happens that Thomas Jefferson is my first cousin.

You should be very proud that you are so goddamn old that you have the same grandparents as Jefferson.


I'm younger than you, big motorcycle boy.
 
2012-08-11 02:03:08 PM

NowhereMon: Lsherm: That said, it sounds like a bunch of 19th century white guys imitating a Native American war cry

Pretty much this. Kinda sad really considering the high regard with which tea baggers and rednecks hold the confederacy.


And it is equally sad the high regard the OWS and progressives hold Marx.
 
2012-08-11 06:31:37 PM

0Icky0: Bernoo: Not so proud of that, but from his side of the family, it so happens that Thomas Jefferson is my first cousin.

You should be very proud that you are so goddamn old that you have the same grandparents as Jefferson.


No, they aren't first-cousins...it's just that Jefferson is his first cousin. Before this, everyone in his family tree had been only children.
 
2012-08-11 07:32:48 PM

czei: cretinbob: NowhereMon: Lsherm: That said, it sounds like a bunch of 19th century white guys imitating a Native American war cry

Pretty much this. Kinda sad really considering the high regard with which tea baggers and rednecks hold the confederacy.

Not only that, but they were very gracious and not a bunch of butthurt losers.

Anyone who'd seen any significant action in the civil war and lived is not going to be particularly nostalgic about it. Well, the sane ones, anyway.


And not every Southerner supported secession.
 
2012-08-11 09:27:16 PM

RatMaster999: 0Icky0: Bernoo: Not so proud of that, but from his side of the family, it so happens that Thomas Jefferson is my first cousin.

You should be very proud that you are so goddamn old that you have the same grandparents as Jefferson.

No, they aren't first-cousins...it's just that Jefferson is his first cousin. Before this, everyone in his family tree had been only children.


That's it exactly. You're exactly right.

/first cousin, 7 times removed. gawd.
 
2012-08-12 10:01:15 AM

Gwendolyn: That was incredibly cool. Although I bet it sounded fiercer when they were young men and smoke and bullets were flying.


I hope so, because if I'd heard that, my biggest problem would have been not being able to aim because I was laughing.
 
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